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"THE CAGE" Memo...
In prep for a ramble on "The Cage", here is the memo that I wrote to Brynne Chandler Reaves on Lydia Marano's 1st draft outline...
WEISMAN 12-13-94
Notes on "The Cage" Outline...
Brynne, call me when you get these.
GENERAL
I hate to sound like a broken record but this begins too slow. I've tried not to write a whole new story. But I have condensed things -- moving the kidnapping up into the first act, etc.
A secondary problem that only occurred to me Sunday is that we have to re-introduce Talon to our audience before we begin to misdirect them into thinking that Talon is the kidnapper. Otherwise, they'll see the silhouette of a big guy with wings and correctly guess that the kidnapper is Goliath. (When the story begins, Talon will have only appeared in one other episode; Goliath will have been in at least 25.) Talon won't even enter their minds until he is re-introduced later in the first act. By that time, we'll need to change their mind regarding the kidnapper's identity. A difficult task, considering that the audience already would have assumed the truth.
MUTATE rather than MUTANT.
At start of story... Goliath is to Talon what Xanatos is to Elisa.
THEME: Cages of all kinds. Use every opportunity to reinforce it.
Need to make sure that in the first two acts, we've set up Maggie's desperate need for a cure. But more importantly, we must set up the warm interdependent relationship between Maggie and Talon. Need to believe their feelings for each other are real before we get to Act Three.
BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
I. Maza Family Dinner. Beth spots winged creature at window.
II. Clock Tower. Elisa talks to Goliath.
A. She hates to lie to her family about Derek.
1. Even if it's just a lie by omission.
B. By the way, G has to be more careful. Beth spotted him.
1. Wasn't me, Goliath says.
2. One of the other gargs? G doesn't think so.
3. Elisa's very excited. Could it be Derek?
4. Goliath is quiet. Deciding what to do.
C. G reveals to E that Talon and Mutates are back w/Xanatos.
1. Last few weeks, he's seen them near Eyrie Building.
2. Didn't tell her because he knew it would hurt her.
3. He feels powerless to help her.
D. Elisa insists that Goliath take her there.
III. Eyrie Building.
A. Action. Goliath vs. Talon, Fang & Claw.
1. Elisa tries to stop fight. Talon is torn.
2. Maggie stops fight.
a. She hates the fighting.
b. We see that Talon listens to her.
3. Magnanimous Xanatos seconds the motion.
a. He's pleased that the Mutates defend his castle.
b. But Goliath and Elisa are not the enemy.
B. Elisa confronts Talon: X is the enemy.
1. Maggie defends X as their only chance for a cure.
2. Elisa says X is the cause not the cure.
3. Talon: No -- Sevarius and Goliath caused this.
4. Reveal that Talon believes Sev. to be dead.
a. Either show flashback to "Metamorphosis"
b. Or be very clear for our audience:
i. Why he thinks Sev is dead.
ii. And why he blames Goliath.
5. Elisa hasn't seen Sev, so she can't be sure.
a. But she expresses some doubt that he's dead.
b. Talon: if Sev is alive now, he won't be for long.
6. Elisa and Goliath leave.
C. X secretly tells Owen to warn Sev to disappear for awhile.
IV. Gen-U-Tech.
A. Sev is kidnapped. Nobody sees. Very Quick.
B. Elisa arrives seconds later in her car.
1. Confirms w/security guard that Sev is alive.
a. She just missed him.
2. Another winged figure listens from above.
a. It's actually Talon.
b. But audience, and even Elisa, will assume it's G.
i. Elisa's touched G's so concerned about her.
V. Sev caged by unseen captor in underground Cyberbiotics Lab.
VI. Eyrie Building.
A. Owen has not been able to reach Sev.
1. Talon probably got to him first.
B. On battlements, Talon returns. Mutates confab.
1. Talon now knows Sev didn't die in "Metamorphosis".
2. But "dealing" with Sev is only half the job.
3. Sev couldn't have faked his death without help.
4. Goliath is Talon's #1 suspect.
5. Maggie doesn't agree but...
a. She let's slip about the Clock Tower.
VII. Fang, Claw and Maggie attack Clock Tower.
A. Maggie is present but is terrified by fighting.
B. Hudson and Bronx are the only Gargoyles there.
1. They put up a valiant fight but are defeated.
ACT TWO
VIII. Underground Lab. Sev agrees to work on cure for unseen captor.
IX. Clock Tower. Hudson regains consciousness.
A. Fang & Claw await Goliath's return.
1. So they can bring him back to Talon, as ordered.
2. Hudson warns them it'll be a long wait.
a. Goliath said he'd be gone for a few nights.
i. It's actually the truth.
ii. But the mutates don't buy it.
iii. Neither will the audience.
X. Eyrie Building.
A. Owen checks all locations where Talon might hold Sev.
B. Talon confronts X.
1. Until recently, Sev was alive & working at G-U-Tech.
2. X admits that he was fooled by Sev's "death".
a. Goliath and Sev must've been working together.
b. G wants Sev to create more monsters like him.
c. This confirms Talon's suspicions.
3. X has known for some time that Sev was alive.
a. He's had Sev working on a cure at Gen-U-Tech.
b. Didn't want to get Talon's hopes up.
4. But Sev was close to a cure.
a. If it's not too late...
b. Talon should release him to X's custody....
XI. Clock Tower. Trio return home.
A. Hudson manages to warn them.
B. Battle.
1. Fang & Claw are more powerful...
2. But Gargoyles are more experienced fighters.
3. Gargoyles win.
C. Brooklyn talks to Maggie.
1. He's over his crush on her.
2. But he still tries to get her to see reason.
a. G was there that night to save her from Sev.
b. G & Sev aren't partners.
c. Xanatos must be culprit.
3. Maggie doesn't want to hear it.
a. Xanatos is their only chance for a cure.
b. Gargoyles must be at fault.
4. To prove her wrong, Brooklyn lets the Mutates go.
XII. Gen-U-Tech. Elisa's back, still looking for missing Sev.
A. She's very worried that Derek has done something stupid.
B. Checking security-camera footage for when Sev left earlier.
1. Does enhancing tricks to confirm Sev was snatched.
2. Enhances more to get a look at kidnapper.
a. Off her reaction...
XIII. Cyberbiotics. Reveal Goliath as kidnapper of Sev.
ACT THREE
XIV. Eyrie Building. Talon tells Xanatos that he doesn't have Sev.
A. Owen enters w/news from Gen-U-Tech.
1. Looks like Sev. "left with" Goliath.
a. Comes across as proof that Sev & G are partners.
2. Doesn't take long for Owen to deduce where G is.
a. Only one abandoned lab that G knows about.
i. CyberBiotics Underground Research Lab.
B. Talon takes off.
C. Other Mutates are just getting back from Clock Tower.
2. They go after him.
XV. CyberBiotics. Goliath is watching Sev work on serum.
A. Elisa enters. (Calm before the storm.)
1. She deduced his location (same as Owen did).
2. Why did Goliath do it?
a. He could see how Derek's condition hurt Elisa.
b. He was afraid that if Talon got to Sev first...
i. then Sev wouldn't survive to cure Derek.
c. Seemed like only way to get cure from Sev.
3. Elisa: Ends don't justify the means.
a. Besides, wouldn't work anyhow.
b. They can't trust Sev.
i. How do they know "the cure" is safe?
4. Goliath agrees to release Sev.
B. Too late. Talon arrives, with Mutates on his heals.
1. Positive that G and Sev are in cahoots.
2. Talon attacks G.
a. This time E. can't stop them.
C. Mutates join in.
1. It's curtains for Goliath and Sev.
D. Sev tries to save his skin with the cure.
1. There's enough here for one.
b. But he can make enough for all four.
2. Talon and Fang don't care.
a. Claw and especially Maggie care a great deal.
b. Maggie reaches out to Talon.
i. What's more important?
ii. Vengeance or Humanity?
3. For her sake, he relents, and gives her the serum.
a. Maggie clutches the serum like it was a diamond.
4. Sev tries to get Talon to take it instead of Maggie.
a. Which makes everyone suspicious.
b. Situation on verge of heating up again.
E. Armored Xanatos steps out of shadows.
1. Rescues Sev.
2. Things seemed under control.
a. But Sev overplayed his hand, as usual.
3. Talon finally gets message about X.
4. X: "So sue me." or some such.
5. He takes off with Sev.
a. Parting shot from Sev: "Serum's poison."
F. Maggie still wants to take it.
1. She thinks Sev lied to preserve his "creations".
a. It's a risk she's willing to take.
b. Because it's better to die than to live a monster.
2. Talon disagrees strongly.
a. Life is more important than normalcy.
b. Besides, he's a monster too.
3. She thinks he's stronger than she is.
4. But Talon couldn't have made it without her.
a. Neither are strong alone.
b. They are strong together.
5. She puts the serum aside.
G. Goliath offers Mutates a home with his gargoyle clan.
1. Thanks, but no.
2. Talon has his own clan (i.e. Mutates).
3. And his own family...
XVI. CYBERBIOTICS UNDERGROUND LAB - A few NIGHTS later.
A. Elisa brings Peter, Diane and Beth.
1. They are reunited with Talon.
a. Hint Maggie.
b. Fang and Claw in b.g.
B. Goliath watches, pleased.
C. Sevarius' cage sits empty. The door wide open.
Gipdac writes...
1) What year was Maggie born?
2) What year was Claw born?
3) What year was Fang born?
Greg responds...
1. 1975.
2. 1954.
3. 1968.
4. And while we're at it, Talon: 1970.
matt writes...
matt writes...
is the Labyrinth that the clones and mutates live in really a labyrinth? it didn't seem too much like a maze whenever we would see it in the series, and lots of characters went down there and didn't get lost or anything.
Greg responds...
It's mostly just a name. But there are tons of corridors, tunnels, etc. Some of them hidden, like the one where Fang found the old Cyberbiotics weapons cache. So you could get lost and you could call it a maze.
And honestly, matt, doesn't this question seem a bit nit-picky?
recorded on 09-11-01
___________________________________
ok, i'll admit that sometimes i DO nitpick at things, but generally my questions do have a point. since you asked i'll tell you that i asked this cuz i really did want to know if it was an actual labyrinth or just a name. and now knowing that its just a name mostly doesn't bother me or anything. i just like to know the little details alot of times. its not nit-picking, its just being complete and precise, i guess.
Greg responds...
Ehh, you may have caught me in a bad mood. There was a point where everyone seemed to be submitting questions with the intent of making me look foolish in some way. My apologies.
As for the Labyrinth, we largely stuck to two or three main areas. But the implication was that between the old subway tunnels and the cyberbiotics build-outs, that the place was fairly maze-like. You looked at my answer and concluded it was just a name. But --and now I'm being nit-picky -- that wasn't my answer. It was mostly just a name. But it was accurate as well.
The Cat writes...
Hey Greg,
Just out of curiousity(I hope to what ever god/dess that I spelled that right.) I was wondering why Sevarius did gene splicing to make the Mutates? I watched this thing on one of the educational channels and it said that humans have little bits of DNA from every animal in their DNA codes. So, why didn't Sevarius just activate the exsting genes in them? Or, did he by that gene splicing?
Well off to homework, "yeah".
Greg responds...
Sigh.
Anyone with a scientific background want to field this? Come up with an explanation that justifies what we put into the show?
Be my guest.
Sapphire writes...
Dear Greg
You said that if Gargoyles continued there would be more mutates can you give a hint what these future mutates would look like?
Greg responds...
No.
And did I say that?
matt writes...
why did you decide to redo the look of the Mutates after Metamorphosis? esspecially Talon, his hair got smoother and darker, he lost his tail, and all the Mutates gained retinas in their eyes, not just white like Bronx's. and yes, he did have a tail!
2. in the garg universe do you have an explanation for the change in appearence? like perhaps they were still mutating? i don't know how that explains gaining a tail then losing it...
Greg responds...
1. I didn't. Frank did. I just didn't object.
2. Yes. They were still mutating. That's why I didn't object. It was absorbed back into their bodies as their human dna regained some ascendency.
Lord Sloth writes...
Did Fang act the way he does now before he was transformed, or was it sorta saposta be that he was corrupted by his new powers? The Mutation seemed to affect Derik a bit, or at least have a sort of eye of oden affect on him.
Greg responds...
Fang has an interesting history. Let's just say that who he is now is an extension of who he was. Of course, the metamorphosis effected him. But not to the exclusion of what had come before.
Lord Sloth writes...
Reckoning:
1)At the fun house, when Goliath goes for help, why dosn't he bring Claw and Maggie. I know it's a pretty dumb question, but hey.
2a)Does Sevarius still work at Gen-u-tec, as well as at Nighstone. Does he still work for Xanatos, or do Xanatos new priorities require letting Sevarius go. b)Would Sevarius make somthing like Thailog ever agian? Was he as scared by him as Xanatos was? c) Is Thailog on much better terms with his father Sevarius, or would he still like to kill him if he lost his usefullness?
Greg responds...
1. He doesn't have time to stop by BOTH the Clock Tower and the Labyrinth. If you were Goliath, where would you go? (Keep in mind that neither Claw or Maggie are really 'warriors born'.)
2a. As of when?
2b. Sevarius is not too big on common sense, I think.
2c. Thailog's not on great terms with any of his fathers.
Epantiras writes...
What are the names of the clones clan?
thanks!
Greg responds...
You mean the names of the clones or the name of their clan?
Anyway, as of 1996, when one might argue the Labyrinth Clan was founded, the cloned gargs included Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu, Burbank and Delilah. There were also Mutates down there: Talon, Maggie the Cat, Claw and an imprisoned Fang. And a number of homeless humans who had found a home beneath.
Thailog's also a clone, but he wasn't exactly part of this clan.
Sapphire writes...
Hi Mr. Weisman
In reference to the mutates Talon and his clan and Wolf the exact term in Genetic engineering to call creatures like these that are genetically engineered with the DNA of different species of animals is the word chimera in reference to the legendary chimara that was part lion, snake, and goat. My question is why did Talon and his clan and Wolf be called mutates instead of chimeras since chimeras is the scientifically way to call human-animal hybrids?
Greg responds...
Because I'm not as well educated as you, perhaps?
Anonymous writes...
Who has more power in terms of electricity a Labyrinth mutate or Jove of the NOs?
Greg responds...
Probably Jove. But I'm not big on this kind of question.
Sapphire writes...
Sorry Matt for picking on you I was just joking any question time.....
Greg you said earlier that Talon would get upset when his sister takes Goliath to be her mate. I was wondering why would he get upset over his sister's choice about the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with?
Greg responds...
Think about it and get back to me.
Anonymous writes...
Which one of the clone gargoyles is going to assume the position of leader of the Labyrinth?
Greg responds...
At the moment, Talon is the leader down there.
Jim R. writes...
Oh, one other statement on "Metamorphosis":
The course of events leading up to Derek being accidently injected with the mutagenic formula seemed awkward. Was it Xanatos' plan to have Derek mutated? In a way it seems it was Derek's fate to be transformed since he asked to go with Xanatos, even though Xanatos said "That won't be necessary." But Derek insisted and ended up going for the ride.
What if Derek didn't go along or had never made an attempt to take the shot for Xanatos when Sevarius was going to shoot the mutagenic formula at him initially? Xanatos would have been hit with it and he would have mutated. That must have been one hell of a risk he took, not knowing that Derek might not come to his rescue. Seeing how the whole time Xanatos and Sevarius were allied and the whole thing seemed like a setup for Derek. But it still gets me as to why the things happened the way they did? For the story's sake in suppose. I at least would have expected Xanatos to scold Sevarius for almost shooting at him. Or is there something that I am missing?
Greg responds...
You're missing Xanatos' basic rule for operation. Contingency plans for everything. Owen said what he said to GET Derek interested. If Derek hadn't volunteered, Xanatos would have asked him to come.
If Derek hadn't been heading for Xanatos, Sevarius would not have shot at that point. Sevarius was aiming for Derek, not Xanatos.
But every aspect of the plan was backed by contingencies.
Jim R. writes...
Some questions about "Metamorphosis" since I watched it yesterday:
1. What did Maggie do or was going to do before she got coaxed by Dr. Sevarius into becoming an experiment?
2. I noticed in this episode that once Derek was mutated and could fly, he looked almost exactly like Fang (which I guess is sort of a cross between a bobcat and a cougar maybe), but then in the later episodes which Derek was featured, his looks were completely different and he looked more like a panther and had black fur. Did you decide to make him look different later or was he essentially still mutating?
3. I also noticed that Fang's initial appearence with the quick shot of the cage they were in when Sevarius was showing Xanatos his work. Fang looked nothing like he does now, well, in a sense. Did you also change his look just for the better or was he still mutating?
Greg responds...
1. I've answered this before. I think she came to NYC to be famous. Brought what seemed like a lot of money to her, but then wound up on the streets.
2. Answered this too. Did you even look in the Mutate ARCHIVE? The "in-show" answer is that the mutates were still mutating. The 'behind the scenes' answer is that Frank wasn't satisfied with the original design on the mutates. But we ran out of time. He kept tinkering with them however to get the final version you saw and "The Cage" and forward.
3. All four mutates, including Talon, Fang, Claw and Maggie the Cat went through revisions between "Metamorphosis" and "The Cage".
Sapphire writes...
Oh Greg the episode Metamorphisis was pretty cool the mutagen thing and all. Do you know in reality how they do gene transference between different organisms like the gene tranference between Derek and a panther, electric eel and bat. Viruses they insert genes into viruses and inject them into a creature where the viruses insert the foreign genes into the creatures DNA and it usually takes 5 months for the creature's DNA to accept the foreign genes as opposed to the 2 days in the episode Metamorphisis. Also there is also a high risk that the immune system would gobble up the mutagen plus the body also gets rid of cells that are mutated so in reality if a mad scientist ever injected you with a mutagen containing the DNA of animals your immune system would destroy the mutagen or the cells that has been mutated
Greg responds...
Oh, sure. But, uh, Sevarius compensated for that with something that temporarily weakens the immune system.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
Sapphire writes...
Will it be painful for Maggie when she and Talon have sex?
Because in my biology text book male cats have barbs on their penises,and when cats mate the female is in pain because the barbs scrape her vulva. Since both Maggie and Derek have cat DNA imbedded in their DNA I imagine that she would be in pain during sex with Talon.
Greg responds...
I think we'll just say they didn't go with the barbs thing, kay?
Geez.
Anonymous writes...
Who is going to the gargoyle leader of the labyrinth clan?
Greg responds...
In what era?
Right now, Talon is the leader.
Adam writes...
After thinking about Basilisk's post regarding whether the mutates could be un-mutated, I have to disagree with his opinion that it would be impossible to undo the mutations. If Sevarius was able to replace the genes of his test subjects with samples of DNA from other animals, it should be fairly simple to reverse the process. Assuming he used some sort of retrovirus to replace the segments of Derek, Maggie, et al.'s original DNA with DNA from other animals. All he would need to do to change them back would be to use the same virus, only this time instead of giving it lion or eel DNA to insert give it a copy of the mutate's original human DNA. The point is that if Sevarius was able to alter their DNA in the first place, he could certainly alter it again.
The biggest problem would be finding a sample of the mutates' orginal, human DNA. When he created Talon, he replaced a significant portion of the DNA that coded for "Derek Maza" with DNA that coded for "panther" and other creatures. Finding the DNA he was going to use to create Talon was fairly easy, he just sampled it from a panther. But if he wanted to re-make Derek Maza, he would have to replace the DNA that codes for "panther" with DNA that codes for "Derek Maza." The problem is that there was only one source of "Derek Maza" DNA on earth: Derek Maza. And this source was destroyed when Sevarius overwrote Derek's original DNA in the mutation process. So unless an alternate source of "Derek Maza" DNA can be found (e.g. blood sample, hair sample from before the mutation) then it would be impossible to recreate Derek.
However, there could be one other option in the absence of a sample of the original DNA. The mutated DNA could be replaced with DNA from a human donor. Someone from the immediate family would probably be best. The effect would be to make the mutates human again, but not the same humans they were originally. For instance, Derek would have a human nose; but it would look like the nose of the DNA donor, not Derek's original nose.
Given this option, what do you think the mutates would choose? Would they decide to become human again, even if they couldn't be the same humans they were before the mutation? After all, unless their DNA is changed back to it's original state, they'll still be mutates. The only difference is that they'll be mutates who look like humans instead of mutates who look like gargoyles. So I guess the question is which species would they rather be an imitation of?
Greg responds...
Well, my guess is Sevarius kept DNA samples of all the pre-Mutate humans. Probably got the samples for Fang, Claw, Maggie and wolf himself. And Derek's could have been acquired during a routine company physical.
I won't pretend to be the scientist Sevarius is. There may be multiple ways to turn them back or NONE at all. Personally, I like the ambiguity. And the fact that the one guy who might just be capable of it is completely untrustworthy.
Given all that, commenting on your specific scenario becomes a bit difficult.
Sapphire writes...
What is Talon's view on homosexuality?
Greg responds...
And we're done.
Sapphire writes...
When Talon and the other mutates die will he and the other mutates that go to heaven in their current forms or their human forms?
Greg responds...
Never been to heaven. Not sure HOW it works.
matt writes...
when i asked if Claw will ever talk again you said, "I hope not". why do you hope that Claw will never talk again? his not being to talk is psychological not physiological, right? as in its something wrong in his head, not wrong with his physical body. what spin-offs would Claw make appearences in? would he be a main character in any of them?
Greg responds...
This isn't exactly altruistic of me, but I believe Claw is a more interesting (and in some ways more expressive and unique) character as a mute. Yes, it's psychological. And I do believe he's adjusted since the initial trauma, but part of that adjustment involves adjusting simultaneously to not speaking. I don't see him speaking again, unless it's right before his death. (And, no I don't yet know how or when he dies.)
As for spin-offs -- assuming they ever get made -- look for him to appear in Bad Guys (because of his relationship to Fang). Perhaps in New Olympians and Pendragon. But mostly in the main Gargoyles series. I see him sticking pretty close to Talon and Maggie and the Labyrinth.
matt writes...
am i correct in these assumptions of what beasts DNA was used to mutate the following characters:
Wolf - wolf
Talon - panther, bat, e. eel
Claw - tiger, bat, e. eel
Fang - couger?, bat, e.eel
Maggie the Cat - lion, bat, e. eel
Greg responds...
Yeah, that sounds right. Cougar or Mountain Lion for Fang.
matt writes...
will Claw ever talk again? by the way, i loved the cat got your tongue joke!
Greg responds...
I hope not.
Basilisk writes...
This question is a little complicated, so please bear with me...
You refer to Talon, Maggie, Fang, and Claw as Mutates, in this case mutated through chemical reactions. The changes to the Mutates are obviously not comestic or superficial. Their musculature, their organs, their bones, their tissues... all of these must have been altered, or else such things as flying, glowing eyes, and electric abilities would be impossible. To put it simply, their very DNA was changed.
Then a "cure" could not truly exist. If their DNA itself was altered, as it must have been to make them as they are, they would need something to restructure it back to its original form in order for them to be "cured". Alterations to deoxyribonucleic acid are permanent, and they cannot revert to a previous form. They must be recreated into a new one.
So was Sevarius merely tricking Maggie and company when he said he had a cure? I mean, he could probably create something that could restructure her DNA back into that of a human... but unless he could somehow use a cell sample from her to redesign it to her OWN human form, I don't see how she could ever be truly "cured". Could you please clarify this for me?
Thank you.
Greg responds...
I have no comment, other than to say that obviously Sevarius can't be trusted.
(The Guppi) writes...
[1] You've said before that you had "marriage, etc" in store for Maggie and Talon. I agree that what-ifs are impossible to deal with, but I'm curious to know if they'd ever have ended up together if it weren't for Gen-U-Tech. From the little we saw of their early interpersonal mechanics (I think that's how it's put), all they seem to have in common is their horrifying experience with Sevarius. Shared trauma can be a mightily powerful attracting force, but it just doesn't seem like a strong foundation on which to build a relationship.
It's not merely the old "leader gets the girl" cliche, I'm sure -- the qualities that make Derek a good leader (and XE recruit) would make him quite the catch. But love isn't one-sided. Maggie really is a sweetheart (steel-core and all), and seems exactly the kind of person to balance out the rougher aspects of Talon's personality (and boy does he have a lot). In the beginning, though, does she have much going for her other than a waifish vulnerability, innocence (or naivete, your call), and, well... a nice rack? (I'm not too sure if the so-called catgirl mystique counts -- that's pretty hard to pin down.)
Now, I think Derek and Maggie make a cute couple, and I admit I'm probably just spoiled by the near-perfect matchups of E+G and F+D. So why question a good thing? It's just that they've already shown how good they are at self-deception. For the sake of romance, I hope they aren't just fooling themselves again. :)
[2] What does the Maza family think about their son/brother and Maggie living together?
[3] Not that I expect an answer for these, but... a) Is the Maza name going to be passed on to T&M's hypothetical children? b) Will it die out with the current generation? (Not necessarily the same question :))
Greg responds...
1. No, they clearly would not have ended up together, I think. But that doesn't mean they aren't right for each other. Nor does it mean they may not have some rocky times ahead.
2. They're fine with it. Particularly given what's happened to Derek, they're happy he has someone to share his life and problems with.
3a. Maybe.
3b. It doesn't die out.
(The Guppi) writes...
Those form-fitting spandex suits the Mutates wear are probably a lot more practical than "tattered street clothing", but they don't look very comfortable. (Especially with all that fur underneath.) Do the new threads simply look better as a Kenner action figure? Foster a needed sense of team spirit? Inhibit static electricity? (An ever-present concern in the dry New York climate, I imagine.)
Greg responds...
What spandex?
(The Guppi) writes...
I just watched _Metamorphosis_ again, and I have a load of new questions...
1) Why did Talon, Fang, and Claw take on new names? I guess it emphasizes their abandonment of their old lives, and Talon already had come up with it, and Fang probably thought it sounded cool, and Claw's better than nothing... but it's so jalepenin' Super-hero!
2a) What do people call Talon when he's around? And when he's not around? (Actually, maybe I should just ask "Who does call Talon 'Talon'?") 2b) Is his family weirded out by his name change?
3) Just some commentary. Unlike 'Fang' and 'Claw', 'Talon' seems to have raptorial rather than predatory connotations. (Bird vs. Beast, kinda.) Any significance to this? Keeping in with the metaphor, though, would make him 'Tooth' -- OK, maybe a little too Flying Dentist to go over well. :) I liked 'Catscan' from your development notes, but I suppose it wouldn't fit with the current backstory.
4) When Maggie was still trying to make her break, was she thinking about changing her name to something more show-bizzy or sophisticated? That'd add an interesting undertone to her later restraint. (Then again, it looks like Maggie's now set herself up to be mono-named a la Madonna or Cher... or, come to think of it, Fox :D.)
Greg responds...
1. You answered your own question. Talon was initially, if briefly, trying to hide his identity from his sister. Later it represented his new life. Fang thought it was cool. Claw couldn't or wouldn't talk, and us humans just have to name everyone. So they gave him the name.
2a. Everyone calls Talon Talon except for the Mazas, and sometimes Maggie.
2b. It's the least of it, of course.
3. He has talons on his hands. He was looking down at his hands when he came up with the name.
4. Maggie didn't want to leave her old life behind, so she kept Maggie. But now it's short for Maggie the Cat, which is a nickname that the inhabitants of the Labyrinth use.
Aaron writes...
Okay, I've been trying to find a way to ask this without tripping over the original ideas restriction. Here goes:
In Metamorphosis, Sevarius says something like: "Aren't you surprised we managed to pull it off at all? It took months of forcing the early test subjects to escape without the gargoyles encountering even one."
What's he talking about?
Greg responds...
Before Broadway and Brooklyn found Maggie in that alley, Sevarius was allowing Fang and Claw and (briefly) Maggie, to periodically escape. Xantos' security squad would give them time at night to run around and attract attention, hoping that the gargoyles would either stumble on them or here about them and seek them out. At first they had remarkably little luck. Finally, Broadway and Brooklyn stumbled on Maggie. Once that happened, the rest of the plan could be put into effect.
(The Guppi) writes...
Why'd Cyberbiotics have a hidden underground base? ('Doesn't everyone?' Right. :P) So why and when did they abandon it?
Greg responds...
They had a hidden underground lab, as a precaution against industrial espionage. That lab was destroyed by a fire at the same time that Fortress-1 went down. Renard could not afford to redeploy both locations. So the underground lab/complex was abandoned.
matt writes...
were the mutates eyes supposed to glow like the gargs or was this an animation mistake?
Greg responds...
They were supposed to.
Vashkoda writes...
1a) What had Sevarius actually concocted at the end of "The Cage"? b) What would have happened to Maggie had she drunk it?
Greg responds...
I like the ambiguity, so I'm not going to answer.
matt writes...
can the mutates fly like bats or only glide like gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Fly.
Anonymous writes...
in "the cage" talons eyes glow like the gargs eyes. was this intentional or an animation mistake?
Greg responds...
Only in "The Cage"?
Sapphire writes...
Will there be any more mutates in the future besides the 4 already present?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Don't forget Wolf, for starters.
Sapphire writes...
Would Talon and Maggie ever have any kids of their own?
Greg responds...
not saying this time
Sapphire writes...
You said something earlier on that in Bad Guys Fang's family will be introduced. My questions are
1) Did Fang ever have any kids when he was human?
2) If Fang had a child how would that child respond to his/her father since now that he is a bat winged couger man?
Greg responds...
1. not saying
2. not saying
Sapphire writes...
In the episode Metamorphisis Dr. Sevarius fires a dart containing mutagen at Xanatos but Derek got in front of Xanatos and the dart hit him instead. Even though Xanatos and Sevarius were just acting the scene to fool Derek so he will be turned into a bat winged panther man, my question is what would have happened if Derek never got in front of Xanatos in time and the dart containing the mutagen hit Xanatos instead of Derek? How would Xanatos respond to Sevarius if the dart hit him turning him into a mutate instead of Derek?
Greg responds...
It wouldn't have hit Xanatos, because Sevarius was never really aiming at Xanatos. But past him, over his shoulder, more toward Derek. If Derek got himself anywhere in the vicinity, Sevarius would have made sure to nail him -- as he did.
matt writes...
what had happened to claw's wings in future tense?
where was fang by that time? dead?
Greg responds...
1. Something horrible that Puck left to Goliath's imagination.
2. Sure. Dead. Why not?
Sapphire writes...
What are Talon's five favorite movies?
Greg responds...
I don't know. (Have you posted a lot of these?)
Danger!
January of '92 was a busy month for Gargoyles Developers. Tad was working on other projects. Maybe Darkwing Duck (if "LP" below stands for "Launchpad"). But he was still helping us out with advice on our show. As I noted earlier, some of Fred Schaefer's villains were problematic. Too dark even for our series. I tended to agree with Tad about Catscan (the proto-Talon). But we did wind up incorporating a bit of the attitude that Tad was concerned about into Fang. (Which makes Catscan the proto-Talon, proto-Sevarius and proto-Fang all rolled into one.)
[2] From: Tad Stones 1/17/92 8:25AM (712 bytes: 11 ln)
To: Greg Weisman
Subject: Cat-scan
------------------------------- Message Contents -------------------------------
Read the villain stuff on Cat Scan. Considering I'm getting notes from Michael Webster about cutting scenes that show LP littering, and GK is worried about doing gags about coffee and showing a gorilla wearing a dress ... do you really want to portray a character who's pumped up by violence, who says he's never felt more alive than when he was fighting?
Even though he's a villain, he's attractive because he's smart and powerful. I think this guy is over the line, however fuzzy that line is.
Ed writes...
Would Talon and Maggie have an actual wedding?
Greg responds...
Yes.
I'm back... and so is Catscan...
Hi. I'm back from my sojourn in Louisiana (hi Green Baron). And it's time to continue our reprinting of old development documents from the show...
This one features two villains, Catscan & Shard, that were created by Fred Schaefer, who coincidentally traveled with me in New Orleans this past week. Catscan would eventually split into Sevarius and Talon. Shard would fade away -- too violent and without enough imagination or flare to make the cut.
[Read: GDW 1/15]
THE GARGOYLE -- VILLAINS
(Schaefer 1-13-92)
DISTRIBUTION: Cranston, Fair, Felix, Guler, Kline, Krisel, Ryan, Stones, Weisman
CAT SCAN -- Part man; part panther. Has a muscular, taut, and sleek body. Walks upright most of the time, but can hit some whopping speeds on all fours. His powerful hind legs allow him to leap from one rooftop to another. He also has x-ray night vision, which is capable of duplicating objects (living or non-living) in 3-D. He uses these convincing (if short-lived) holograms as decoys to fool his enemies. He's highly dangerous (razor-sharp claws and teeth), and can kill very quickly. [Greg wrote: "Fitting the name/ May not fit origin" beside this paragraph.]
FIRST EPISODE INTRODUCING CAT SCAN
Dr. Grun is a shamelessly ambitious scientist doing top secret research on vision -- human vs. animal -- for Xavier's corporation. Xavier is involved in developing a highly-advanced "night vision" for jets and a new revolutionary decoy device using holograms. Unfortunately, Dr. Grun's experiments requires an enormous amount of animal research. Mostly on wild cats.
One day, an animal rights group infiltrated his lab. [I underlined this sentence and wrote "Makes them villians".] A violent clash ensues; Dr. Grun accidentally receives a massive dose of his own newly developed x-ray, a controversial device that melds CAT Scan technology with genetics. [I circled "CAT" and wrote "abbreviation has nothing to do w/Cats."] He's hospitalized in Xavier's in-house medical center.
Dr. Grun's body begins to undergo some drastic and extremely painful mutations. Slowly, he turns into a panther/human. He becomes angry, bitter, self-denigrating -- his career as a scientist is over! [I wrote: "Why"] Xavier becomes angry (and sickened by Grun's pathetic self-loathing; remember, powerlessness is Xavier's biggest fear); he reprimands Dr. Grun, telling him that he has acquired skills that no other human possesses. He is powerful and dangerous. Xavier wants to recruit him in his villain team.
At first, Dr. Grun is mortified. The life of a criminal is no substitute for the intellectual life of a scientist! Indignant, Dr. Grun storms out of Xavier's headquarters. That night, while wandering through dark back alleys, Dr. Grun is hounded by a beggar. In a fit of fierce anger (coupled with his feelings of frustration and self-revulsion) he lashes out and attacks the man. The Gargoyle comes to the man's rescue. He and Dr. Grun battle. Dr. Grun escapes.
Safe from the Gargoyle, Dr. Grun reflects on the violence. Surprisingly, he admits that he's never felt more vigorous in his entire life. Pumped up. visceral. ALIVE!!!! (He returns to Xavier as the self-proclaimed CAT Scan, and joins his team.)
THE SECOND EPISODE FEATURING CAT SCAN
[I crossed this out and added an arrow to the paragraph below to move it up with the previous.]
CAT Scan confronts the Gargoyle while trying to pull off one of Xavier's crimes. CAT Scan has been waiting for this moment ... a chance to face his very first opponent again. Only this time, he's more powerful and more skillful at using his CAT Scan vision. It's a tough, grueling fight.
CAT Scan loses, but not by much. He vows to get even. The score is not settled.
THE THIRD EPISODE FEATURING CAT SCAN
CAT Scan discovers that the raid on his lab a long time ago was a hoax perpetrated by Xavier himself. It was no accident that Dr. Grun was dosed by the replicating device. Xavier's rationale was: who better to understand and deal with the psychological stress of becoming a panther than a man who's studied wild cats all his life. A man who understands the physical effects of genetic mutations and the capabilities of the advanced CAT Scan x-rays. Dr. Grun was simply a tool ... and now he's a freak. An enslaved freak. He decides to kill Xavier.
The Gargoyle now finds himself in the odd position of protecting Xavier from CAT Scan. In the end, though, CAT Scan is defeated again.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE ...
SHARD -- Randall Craig is a New York window cleaner. He's a large man, and yet has an amazing sense of balance; his bulk belies his agility. He's comfortable scaling skyscrapers and definitely not afraid of heights. Some of his coworkers think he's a little too casual on the job.
Although bulky, he's really a shy, somewhat innocent-looking man. A man who's hiding a deep secret: he has an uncontrollable violent streak in him that's triggered when he's being mocked, condescended to, or is ridiculed. Unfortunately, his co-workers make fun of him all the time, but he resists smashing their skulls in because he doesn't want to get fired. [By this section, I wrote: "We all feel this way".] He internalizes his rage and late at night releases it on innocent victims on the streets of New York. [By this I wrote: "can't be to [sic] uncontrollable".]
One day on the job, he cracks up. He crashes through the window of an office tower and beats the [expletive delted] out of an executive who he thought was mocking him as he worked. The broken glass severely scars his face. He's fired.
Plastic surgery can correct the damage, but he decides that he ' likes his new look -- the scars, covering most of his face, resemble a shattered mirror or window. [By these last two paragraphs, I wrote: "Won't be able to do this".]
After the incident he becomes a recluse. He always was an outsider, a loner, but now he disappears for a long period of time. When he resurfaces, it's as a maniacal, senseless murderer. Now he has an "occupation" that people will respect ... even fear. It's hard to be condescending the moment before you're murdered!
Shard spends his nights scaling skyscrapers. When-he sees his next victim, he swoops down on a rope and snatches them from the sidewalk. As he climbs up the building (to the rooftop where his crimes are committed), his victims quickly stop struggling. They are so high up, so quickly, that they don't want him to let them go. Unfortunately, they don't know what awaits them on the roof.
At the scene of Shard's crimes (always on the top of skyscrapers, leaving the police puzzled about how the killer and the victim got up there without anyone noticing them), he leaves a shard of glass -- perfectly clean, like a diamond; no fingerprints, no smudges. And as sharp as a knife. His repeated murders make the headlines of the New York Times.
Xavier relishes the mystery and the ferocity of the killer's crimes, so he sends his men out to track him down before the police do: Xavier wants him on his team! [I circled the word "team" and put a question mark beside it.]
One night, Shard swipes one of Xavier's men and begins scaling a skyscraper to the man's final resting place -- on the roof! The Gargoyle tries to save the man (unknowingly saving one of Xavier's henchmen); a high wire fight ensues; Xavier shows up in a helicopter, joins in the battle against the Gargoyle, but all of the villains are defeated... just barely.
Later, Shard is confronted by Xavier who is eager to recruit him. Shard, however, is furious and almost drops Xavier off the side of a building: he doesn't need him; the world doesn't need him; the world has Shard! Xavier, however, is amused with Shard's look on life. He can't help but laugh. Here is a man who understands ego and power! (Of course, Xavier concludes, he's not bright enough to properly use it; that's why he needs Xavier.) Shard thinks Xavier is laughing at him, so he drops him from the building top. Halfway to the ground, Xavier's saved by his helicopter. Undaunted, apparently not even angry that Shard almost killed him, Xavier laughs out loud and vows to recruit Shard one day... one day.
THE SECOND EPISODE FEATURING SHARD
Well, that day comes soon enough. Cut to the action: Shard is trapped; he's going to be captured by the Gargoyle. Only Xavier can save him, but he'll do so only if Shard vows to work for him. Reluctantly, he agrees, and is saved by Xavier, who laughs demonically at his catch. Shard is having second thoughts...
[I wrote: "Xavier doesn't have to be in everything".]
Ed writes...
How would Fang come to join the Redemption Squad: I mean, would he escape the Labyrinth first or have to be broken out, as in "THE RECKONING"?
Greg responds...
Not telling. But it involves Sevarius.
Nyrtleka writes...
Why are the Mutates referred to as such? I mean, the more obvious name would be Mutants. Was this name not used so as to not be confused with the X-Men mutants?
Greg responds...
Not really. Mutants are born that way. It's literally a term from biology. Mutates are "mutated".
Roe Tarusi writes...
Where exactly Is the Labrynth located? If in New York City, is it in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Statan Island, or the Bronx? Or is it located just outside the city, like Long Island or New Jersy or something?
Greg responds...
Under Manhattan mostly... but it extends...
Charles writes...
You've said that the mutates are capable of true flight, unlike the gargoyles who can only glide. Is this b/c of their energy boost from the electricity thing, or a result of their design, or some other reason?
Greg responds...
The former.
Siren writes...
METAMORPHOSIS
I have a thing for cat-like characters as well. Catwoman from Batman has always been one of my favorite characters. So I liked the mutantes a lot. I love the electric eel thing too, it was very cool and very different. I like Talon's attitude. And Fang was a nice addition. I like Claw, but wish I could have seen more of him in the series. Maggie was a slight disappointment, mainly cause we didn't get to see her grow as much. They all seem to accept their new form later in the series, enjoy it even. Maggie was very different from the other mutants. She was more afraid, unsure, cautious...can't blame her. I am getting ahead of myself with this episode into other mutant episodes...but oh well...Maggie is very weak at first. Like a scared little kitten really. Very different from all the other strong female characters.
I think this episode also defined the moment for Brooklyn and all Brooklyn fans from then on. Here's ya got a handsome young gargoyle, who loves this new "gargoyle-like" creature and she blows him off, calling him a monster, even though she resembled a gargoyle. Then she runs to Talon. So ya got this sympathy for Brooklyn. Cause Lex and Broadway didn't seem as interested in her as he was. Ya got Demona even, in Temptation, to me, I felt that when he started to trust her, he started to like her, then she betrays him horribly. Then later, Angela goes for Broadway, when a lot of fans, including me, thought it would be Brooklyn. And poor Brook get's upstaged again, by one of his best friends too. Not that I wasn't happy myself. Actually, I like Broadway/Angela better then Brooklyn with her. Broadway isn't so "pushy"...I am gonna get it from all them Brook fans...So Brooklyn grows slightly from this. It's been over a thousand years, most of those sleeping, but the waking, with no females, so ya got this 16 year old boy, trapped on an island and suddenly the only female blows him off. It's hard for him and he develops the jealousy with Talon.
I also was slightly surprised, but certainly not disappointed by the ending. It was perfect for the episode and I wouldn't want to see it any other way.
BTW, I like look you developed later for the the mutants as well.
Greg responds...
It was because we had so many strong female characters in the series (including Elisa, Maria, Diane, Demona, Fox and Hyena) that we (myself, Michael Reaves, Brynne Chandler Reaves and Lydia Marano) felt comfortable to make Maggie weaker -- at least at first. In fact Brynne and Lydia seemed to really want to explore a character that freaked out more. That frankly, reacted more as you or I would. I do think she grew though. She'd never be another Elisa, but "The Cage" represented a turning point for her. And I think she demonstrated real strength in "Kingdom". Not a warrior's strength. But a wife's strength. And by "The Reckoning", even though she didn't have a line, she WAS taking her turn guarding the prisoners.
Of course, the real irony is that she has almost NOTHING in common with the original MAGGIE THE CAT from William's CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF. That didn't bother me. I appreciated the irony.
And don't worry too much about Brooklyn. Katana's a good match for him.
Blaise writes...
METAMORPHOSIS
Ah, one of my favs. Pity I missed it the first time it aired.
Throughout the second season, the show was on while I was still in school, so I had to tape it all the time. Three times the VCR, for one reason or another, failed to tape. Each time, the eps that aired were new ones--METAMORPHOSIS, THE CAGE, and KINGDOM (are you sensing a pattern here?). What made this twist of fate REALLY cruel is that these are some of my favorite eps. I love cats for one thing, so I was instantly attracted to the Mutates. This episode was also the one that cemented Brooklyn as my favorite character, so there's another. And, in two of the missed eps, Tim Curry, one of my (again) favorite actors, is featured.
Missing this ep didn't put me too far out of the loop. The only reference to it I picked up was Elisa's remark in EYE OF THE BEHOLDER that the Werefox was "human once, just like [her] brother." For some reason I didn't catch the reference to "mutated victims" and in OUTFOXED, after an initial "Huh?", I forgot about Renard's mention of some "Anton Sevarius" (keeping the strength of THAT revelation safe until the second time around). But, I digress. On with the ep itself.
Brooklyn's attraction to Maggie (whom I instantly recognized and grew interested in--what can I say, I have an affinity for cat-women) intrigued me. I always wondered if the fact that she wasn't a true gargoyle even mattered to him. Did I root for him and Maggie to get together? Not neccesarily. Did I *expect* it? Actually, yes. The attitude Brooklyn displays here is usually as deep as most animated shows go in depicting "love." After some intiial shock, my admiration for the series increased when Maggie wound up with Talon and Brooklyn's attraction was shown as just a crush. Regardless, his "love at first sight" mentality was something in Brooklyn I found appealing (a fellow hopeless romantic, perhaps). His experiences here and his final acceptance of the facts grabbed my notice and from this ep on, I always tended to favor him (though I made an effort not to do so at the expense of the other characters).
Looking at the ep, knowing what I know about the characters now, Brodway's ability to "read people" versus Brooklyn's self-delusion is very nicely juxtaposed, and they have some good exchanges. When Brooklyn tells Broadway "You don't know anything about her" there is much irony--Broadway knows more about her than Brooklyn does.
For what it's worth, I believed Xanatos (probably helped because I had seen EYE OF THE BEHOLDER before I got to see this). He seemed sincere enough to me, and mutation seemed ultra-slimy even for him. Boy was I surprised at the end. I was even more surprised by the end than by Sevarius' "death"--you guys had let people die in the series before, why not now? My surprise was tripled when I saw that Sevarius looked much younger and had a less thick accent than how he'd been played. I thought Sevarius the "mad scientist" was the real thing--he was voiced by Tim Curry who is usually thrown into the roles of over-the-top scientists and (in his own words) "east-European villains" so it was a pleasure to see a sort of send-up of type-casting in this. (And who couldn't recognize Sevarius? Even without the accent, he still had Tim Curry's inimitable pipes.)
The ending: Morbidly enough, this ending is one of my favorites because the good guys actually lost this round. Brooklyn's brooding and Elisa's crying really drove this point home. I am, strangly enough, reminded of a joke T-shirt: "Sometimes, the dragon wins."
And FINALLY! I now know who did the voice of the as-yet-unnamed Fang in this ep. I knew it wasn't James Belushi (it didn't have quite the same "growling" quality) but I couldn't for the life of me figure it out, something I can normally do. Truth be told, I would NEVER have guessed it was Jonathan Frakes (though now it seems so obvious to me). Still, the voices are similar enough, and even if they weren't, the Mutates' voices tended to change with their appearance (Rocky Caroll's (sp?) voice for Derek is different than his voice for Talon, and Kath Souci's voice for Maggie was slightly different in KINGDOM than for her first two appearances). But, nice trivia to know.
I hadn't really noticed how much the theme of self-deception was a factor in this, but it makes sense.
And yes, the animation is sub-par, but I just like the story so much I can live with it (and if I can live with the animation in KINGDOM, I think I can live with anything).
POINTLESS OBSERVATION> Not only does Hudson get left at the Clock Tower, but in this ep (as well as TEMPTATION) he doesn't get a single line). In fact his first words to Maggie are "Who's there?" in THE CAGE.
I'm sure there was more I wanted to say, but I think this message is thick enough already.
Greg responds...
Very good observations.
We intentionally gave Derek & Talon and Maggie Reed & Maggie the Cat different edges to their voices. We wanted the Mutates (with the obvious exception of Claw) to sound a bit more growly than their previous human counterparts.
But Maggie shouldn't have sounded any different between the Cage and Kingdom. Are you sure you're not just responding to attitude, not voice. Clearly, Maggie doesn't really start to come into her own until Kingdom.
Aris Katsaris (repost by Aris) writes...
Outside the case of Goliath and Elisa, Brooklyn's attraction to Maggie seems to be the only case where we saw hints for an attempted interspecies relationship... Since (if I remember correctly) the rest of the Trio didn't seem particularly interested in Maggie, and we certainly know that it was not 'true love' on Brooklyn's side... what does his attraction to Maggie signify? By that I mean, is it that her mutation gave her a form which was closer to his gargoyle standard of beauty (so that he pretty much considered her a gargoyle)? Or is Brooklyn more likely than his siblings to pursue *any* sentient female, regardless of species? :-)
Hmm... that was a rather muddled question, wasn't it... Ah well...
Greg responds...
I think she looked gargoylean to him. (Making allowances for his assumption that there were no other (Non-Demona) female gargoyles left.)
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