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NoOneSpecial writes...
We know that Avalon can send travellers where they “need to beâ€, so these questions are going to mainly revolve around that effect and the deeper mechanics that may be involved.
1.Does this effect only happen if someone is traveling to and from Avalon by the wharf? I’m sure Oberon and the rest of the Third Race have other means of coming and going from the island, but are they subject to be sent somewhere they don’t want to be by Avalon? Like say Oberon goes to Manhattan using his mirror. Could Avalon interfere with this and send him somewhere else that he “needs to beâ€
2.How long this, for lack of a better word, “rule†been in place for Avalon? Was it around back in Mab’s day?
3.Is Oberon aware that Avalon sends people on these adventures? And if so, can he make Avalon stop doing that? We know he can control the island’s landscape and weather, so can he stop Avalon from sending people on adventures? Could he make it so Avalon will just send people where they “want to go�
4.Would you say that this rule is proof that Avalon has some degree of sentience to it? It sent Goliath and co. on adventures to do important things. In the Gathering it apparently sent them to stop Oberon in Manhattan. That seems to imply Avalon has its own agenda, regardless of what Oberon wants. Even more so, if he cannot actually stop it from sending travellers on adventures for whatever unknown purposes. So, would you say that Avalon is alive in some way?
5.How insistent is Avalon when sending travellers on World Tours? Suppose Goliath and co. were sent somewhere to do something important. Let’s say they believe they have succeeded in doing whatever they were sent to do(or maybe they just decide to give up). They hop back into the skiff and sail away. Would Avalon send them back again to the same place until they finished the job? The best example I can think of is maybe when they go to New Olympus. They decide the best thing to do to free Elisa and escape. If they had managed to get away, would Avalon just send them back again? It did always seem a little convenient that the group could successfully leave at the end of every episode, meaning they done what they were sent to do, despite the fact it’s never specified to them what exactly they needed to do when they arrived. What if they had missed something? What if they had done the wrong thing? I know it would tend to be obvious yes, but it’s mostly guesswork on their part.
Greg responds...
1. Avalon is a subtle mistress, so I'm going to say no. If, in essence, you're taking a shortcut - as with Oberon's Mirror - Avalon isn't likely to interfere.
2. Always.
3. I'm sure he's aware. I doubt he's interested in interfering. Keep in mind that people sailing off from Avalon is a rare occurrence.
4. Definitely. I thought that was clear.
5. It is what it is. Also, Avalon has no guarantee that they'll get back on the dang boat at the end of a "mission." Everyone has free will. But Avalon is sending folks where they need to be. If they're ready to leave, then they don't need to be there anymore.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "The Gathering" (both episodes) on DVD today. A few new things I noticed about it.
A minor detail, but which I find touching: when Renard learns about Anastasia's remarriage,, he sadly clasps her hand.
The letter X is prominent among the Xanatoses: Xanatos, FoX, and AleXander. And then I thought of LeXington, who isn't one of the family, but who's close to Alex, and who became Xanatos's secret successor in "Future Tense". (And there's that bit, also, in your "Gargoyles 2198" piece, about the Lexington-Xanatos Corporation.)
Goliath's homecoming makes a lovely contrast with "Future Tense", as he warmly embraces the overjoyed Brooklyn and Lexington (the two members of the clan who'd been bitter towards his late return in "Future Tense") and Hudson says "I knew you hadn't abandoned us." (While Broadway hugs Elisa, tying in with his being the closest to her among the trio, ever since "Deadly Force".)
One feature of Goliath's pondering the possibility that Avalon sent him to Manhattan to stop Oberon from taking Alex away; if his speculation was correct, that means that Avalon was, in a way, going against its lord and master. Though that made sense when I thought about it; without going too deeply into hypotheticals, I suspect that things would have not gone well for Avalon if Oberon *had* spirited Alex away (no way would his parents have accepted that), and Avalon would be sparing itself and its lord and master a lot of potential trouble in thwarting him.
You mentioned once that you wanted to have Puck break the fourth wall, but the rest of the production team objected to it. I noticed that he does come close, though, when he turns towards the camera while saying "I'm on a roll". (And when somebody *did* break the fourth wall, it was Brooklyn instead.)
At the very end, Broadway turns to stone shortly before the rest of the clan does.
Greg responds...
Interesting observations. Thanks for all these, Todd.
Anonymous writes...
I'm back with some questions regarding the skiff Goliath and co. rode arround on during the World Tour.
For the life of me I cannot recall whether they kept the skiff with them in Manhatten or sent it back to Avalon, or if it was ever even shown what happened to it.
1. If they did keep it, would whoever rode it next be taken back to Avalon or resume the World Tour?
2. Also, if they kept it, how did Tom get from Avalon to Manhatten?
3. Kind of a related topic, but if not I'll understand if I have to ask again later...what brought King Arthur's body to Avalon?
Greg responds...
It wasn't shown, but you saw what happened to Arthur's skiff. The same thing happened to Goliath's. Since the skiff/Avalon "knew" it was the last stop, it sank away and returned to Avalon. Recycled, don'tcha know.
1. See above.
2. There is, by the way, more than one skiff.
3. A skiff.
Todd Jensen writes...
This question was inspired by your mention of recently visiting a "Doctor Who" convention.
One of the episodes of the revived series (written by Neil Gaiman), had the Doctor getting to speak to the TARDIS when its essence is temporarily transferred into a human body, and saying "You never got me where I wanted to go". To which the TARDIS replies, "But I always took you where I needed to be". I wondered, if you'd seen that episode, what you thought of that exchange, which echoes Avalon's properties in "Gargoyles" down to the wording.
Greg responds...
I've seen it. It was cool. But I'm not feeling like we were copied or anything.
Paul writes...
I have a couple of questions about the "teleport to Avalon" spell cast by the Magus and later Tom in "Avalon, Part One".
Tom was able to cast the spell without using the Grimorum. Can anybody who knows the incantation cast the spell, or was Tom a special case because he had previously seen and heard the Magus cast it from the Grimorum? Or was he a special case for some other reason?
Did Elisa, Goliath, and/or Angela cast the spell to return to Avalon during their World Tour, or did the boat take them back to Avalon on its own?
Greg responds...
Hm. Good question. I'm going to posit that this was a very powerful spell, needing only an aural component. Once learned, it worked without assistance.
Derek writes...
You mentioned that Angela was raised christan, to an extent anyway by Katherine but was not necessarily bapitised.
I read a book about "monsters" in medieval art and apparently St Augustine claimed that even "monsters" were worthy of salvation but only if they were descended from man. Apparently Augustine's comments were very important to missionaries and their work. Could this have been a reason that Katherine didn't bapitise the Gargoyles as they weren't descended from man? Or was it a more literal, no priest on Avalon king of thing?
Greg responds...
I'd have to do some research, I guess.
dph of rules writes...
I am referencing this recent positive reply - http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13464 - for my questions about the destination choice for travelers.
1. With regards to humanity is Avalon benevolent, ambivalent, or malevolent?
2. With regards to gargoyles is Avalon benevolent, ambivalent, or malevolent?
3. With regards to the 3rd race is Avalon benevolent, ambivalent, or malevolent?
Greg responds...
1. I guess it depends on your point of view on humanity.
2. I guess it depends on your point of view on Gargoyles.
3. Benevolent, on the whole.
dph of rules writes...
"Avalon sends you where you need to be" - I've thought about that quote recently quite a bit.
When a traveler leaves Avalon via water, who/what determines where the traveler 'needs to be'?
Greg responds...
Avalon does.
Vaevictis Asmadi writes...
Hello Greg, I have two questions to ask you about Avalon. The first one is actually something another poster asked, but the rest of their post violated rules and it got deleted. I was curious so I'm reposting their question.
1. Is the water around Avalon salty or non-salty?
2. Are there any other "magical equivalent of animals" on Avalon besides will-o-the-wisp, or are the will-o-the-wisps the only ones there currently?
Thanks as always for your patience and answers!
Greg responds...
1. It's probably a mix of both. ;)
2. Time will tell, I hope.
Vaevictis Asmadi writes...
Hello again Greg,
A while ago, before I got a hold of Clan Building vol. 2, I asked you this question:
<<Following up on what Clark asked, how is it that such a powerful artifact, the Phoenix Gate, is used by such a simple incantation that even Goliath, certainly no trained sorcerer, quickly learned it? Maybe I'm conditioned by role-playing games to assume that more powerful magic will always be harder to learn than relatively weak magic, but it seems quite strange to me that the Phoenix Gate incantation, and for that matter the incantation to enter Avalon, are so quickly learned when they seem to be quite powerful spells.>>
You replied:
<<It has to do with the nature of the Gate and of Avalon. I don't want to go into too many details (particularly on the former) when we're so close to the release of the Trade.>>
Reading the vol. 2 trade paperback nicely cleared up for me why the Phoenix Gate is so easy to use and just how dangerous it is! In fact it makes me wonder whether the "incantation" is really an incantation in the usual sense... However, the other half of my question doesn't relate to the Gate, and if there was something in the trade paperback that answered my question... I missed it. Now that the three trades have been out for a while and the Phoenix Gate's nature has been (partially) revealed, I hope that you are in the mood to answer the other half of my question:
What is the reason that the Avalon incantation used by the Magus and Tom, seemingly a quite powerful spell, is so easy to use and to learn? Angela and Goliath seemed to pick it up rather easily.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Greg responds...
I feel I've pretty much answered this. Reread everything above. All the clues are there. And if the answer isn't clear -- well, then good. ;)
Daniel writes...
In the 2198 spinoff, will the people in Avalon get involved in the fight at all? They are clearly at risk to, since the aliens have the potential to destroy earth, and Avalon along with it.
Greg responds...
No comment.
G2009 Radio Play
G2009 Radio Play - Act Two
BIG MAN STANDS.
247. NARRATOR
Act Two. The Big Man of Crime enters his offices, but finds he’s not alone…
248. BIG MAN
You spend so much time here, I’ll need to buy you your own chair. So you’ll stay out of mine.
Green Goblin STANDS.
249. GREEN GOBLIN
Surprised to see me?
250. BIG MAN
Not particularly.
251. GREEN GOBLIN
Then you won’t be surprised to learn I’m still running things…
252. BIG MAN
If you can run them from a hospital bed…
253. NARRATOR
Catching Gobby off guard, Lincoln punches him right through the window…
254. GREEN GOBLIN
<impact grunt>
255. NARRATOR
The goblin-glider swoops in and catches the Goblin, who pulls out a Pumpkin Bomb.
PUMPKIN BOMB STANDS.
256. GREEN GOBLIN
Ever the gracious host. And ever the gracious guest, the Goblin must show his appreciation. Here. I brought a gift.
257. NARRATOR
Gobby throws his “giftâ€, but Goliath swoops in, catches it and throws it back.
Goliath and Spider-Man STAND.
258. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
259. GREEN GOBLIN
<impact>
260. NARRATOR
Not far away…
261. SPIDER-MAN
No, no, no, no, no… I was hoping I’d never hear that trademark Pumpkin Bomb shriek again…
262. NARRATOR
Spidey swings in to find Goliath and a recovering Gobby together…
263. SPIDER-MAN
So that’s what these gargoyles are… more of the Goblin’s Halloween creations…
264. NARRATOR
Spidey swings into action against Goliath.
265. GOLIATH, SPIDER-MAN
<ad-lib battle sounds>
266. GOLIATH
The Bugle was right about you: you are a threat and a menace!
267. SPIDER-MAN
Wait, you can talk? And read?! And what you read is the Jolly One’s editorials?!
268. GREEN GOBLIN
I know I should assassinate Mr. Lincoln. But I’m so enjoying the show. Really, someone should make more Gargoyles. I know: I’ll call Walt Disney.
Green Goblin, Spider-Man, Goliath, Pumpkin Bomb and Big Man sit. ANGELA, BROOKLYN, BROADWAY and LEXINGTON STAND.
269. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, atop the Eyrie Building, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway watch Angela playing with Brooklyn’s son Nashville…
270. ANGELA
That’s great, Nashville. This time try the axe…
271. BROADWAY
Wow, Angela looks so adorable playing with Gnash. I mean, Gnash is cute too…
272. BROOKLYN
Thanks. I know he hatched in another decade, but Katana and I discussed it, and we want the whole clan to be Gnash and Egwardo’s Rookery parents…
273. BROADWAY
We’d be honored…
274. LEXINGTON
I still can’t quite take it all in. I go to Britain for a few weeks, and everything changes…
275. BROADWAY
At least you were gone for weeks. Try adjusting in forty seconds.
276. BROOKLYN
Hey, I had forty years to get ready for this, and it’s still strange…
277. LEXINGTON
But, dude. You’re so… old.
278. BROOKLYN
Thanks.
279. LEXINGTON
Older than Goliath.
280. BROOKLYN
Yeah.
281. LEXINGTON
Almost Hudson’s age.
282. BROOKLYN
I get it. I’m old.
283. LEXINGTON
It’s not that. Everything about you is different.
284. BROOKLYN
Oh, come on…
285. BROADWAY
No, he’s right. The way you talk. The way you move. All those weapons you carry now. It’s like you’ve outgrown us.
286. BROOKLYN
That’s not fair. I can’t tell you how much I missed you both.
287. LEXINGTON
We get that. And we’re not mad. But…
288. BROOKLYN
Look, this isn’t all on me. As I recall, things were already changing. Broadway spent all his time with Angela.
289. BROADWAY
Not all my time.
290. LEXINGTON
Uh… pretty much.
291. BROADWAY
Yeah, well, you’re practically on the internet non-stop.
292. LEXINGTON
It’s addictive! Do you know they have porn on that thing? There’s this one website, Blue Mug Prodâ€"
293. BROOKLYN
I don’t wanna know. The point is we’ve all gone through some changes. That’s just life.
294. BROADWAY
I guess our Three Musketeer days are over…
295. LEXINGTON
Yeah…
Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
296. ZAFIRO
Gargoyles of Manhattan!
297. OBSIDIANA
We need you’re help!
298. NARRATOR
At just that moment, the sun rises, turning Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Angela and Gnash to stone. Obsidiana and Zafiro are unaffected, thanks to their mystic Mayan pendants.
299. ZAFIRO
Mierda.
300. OBSIDIANA
Nuestro cronometraje apesta hoy.
Obsidiana, Zafiro, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Angela sit. Spider-Man, Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
301. NARRATOR
Across town, Goliath also turns to stone.
302. SPIDER-MAN
What the heck?!
303. GREEN GOBLIN
Well, that was… unexpected.
304. SPIDER-MAN
All right, that’s enough. I know you’re not the real Gobby.
305. GREEN GOBLIN
Yes, yes, “It’s not the voice; it’s the words. Not the tech, but the moves.†I’ve heard it all before…
306. SPIDER-MAN
Then I know exactly who you really are: Chameleon!
307. GREEN GOBLIN
That would ease your conscience, wouldn’t it? To think I’m Chameleon â€" and not the ghost of the man you killed!
308. SPIDER-MAN
I don’t believe in ghosts.
309. GREEN GOBLIN
Then maybe you’d prefer I was the Spawn of Goblin.
310. SPIDER-MAN
Oh, you’d just love to shift the blame to Harry. Sorry, Gobby â€" I mean, Chammy â€" but we’ve been there, done that. Besides, no matter who you are, there hasn’t been time for the Globulin Green to kick in and truly Goblify you. So I’m gonna take you down now while you’re still just a cheap imitation.
311. GREEN GOBLIN
You could do that… or you could save stoneface over there.
312. NARRATOR
Gobby throws a pumpkin bomb at Goliath. Instinctively, Spidey webs it away…
313. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
Pumpkin Bomb and Green Goblin sit.
314. NARRATOR
By which time, the Goblin is gone, leaving a confused Spidey perched on Goliath’s head…
315. SPIDER-MAN
So in hindsight, I’m thinking maybe you weren’t part of the Gob-Squad, right?
(beat)
Fine. Stonewall me.
May STANDS.
316. NARRATOR
That morning in Forest Hills, Spidey sneaks in through his bedroom window, hoping to catch a few Zs.
317. MAY
Peter, are you awake.
318. PETER
Uh, sure Aunt May. Just getting dressed.
319. MAY
Well, hurry up. I’m… “conferencing†with all the other parents.
Robbie, ROSIE THOMPSON and George STAND.
320. ROBBIE
Are you sure you don’t mind, Mrs. Parker? Cuz I gotta say, what you’re proposing would be my worst nightmare.
321. MAY
<laughs> Oh, I don’t believe that for a minute, Mr. Robertson. It’s a joy to be around Peter and his friends. And I won’t be alone. Anna Watson and Mrs. Osborn will be with me.
322. ROSIE
Emily? She’s so… odd. I don’t think she’s ever said one word to me…
323. MAY
Well, I don’t know her very well, Rosie, but Harry is Peter’s best friend â€" no offense to your Eugene â€" so she must be doing something right.
324. ROSIE
May, you never change. Always seeing the best in people.
325. MAY
I’ll take that as a compliment, dear girl.
326. GEORGE
In any case, I’m glad to get Gwen out of Manhattan for a few days. The streets are looking pretty grim right about now.
327. MAY
Oh, I’m sure your officers will have things under control in no time.
328. PETER
Aunt May, what’s going on?
329. MAY
Oh, didn’t I tell you, Peter. I’m chaperoning your trip to Miami Beach!
330. PETER
Wow. Great.
Peter, May, George, Rosie and Robbie sit. Big Man and Dominique STAND.
331. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, back at L. Thompson Lincoln’s office…
332. BIG MAN
And how can I be of help, Ms. Destine.
333. DOMINIQUE
I think I can help you, Mr. Lincoln.
334. BIG MAN
What makes you think I need any help?
335. DOMINIQUE
Oh, little things. The shattered window, that unusual statue on the ledge outside…
336. BIG MAN
Point taken. How about you cut to the chase?
337. DOMINIQUE
Fine. Tony Dracon. Tomas Brod. Silvio Manfredi. All in jail. Hammerhead. Sable Manfredi. On the run. This gives you a unique opportunity to reclaim what was lost.
338. BIG MAN
I’m sure L. Thompson Lincoln has no idea what you’re talking about. But go on…
339. DOMINIQUE
You have three problems. Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus and the government watching your every move.
340. BIG MAN
And you have the solution…
341. DOMINIQUE
I have the manpower. Three… “super-villains†to take down the competition and Dominic Dracon to use as a figurehead.
342. BIG MAN
The old man? I heard he was shy a few brain cells.
343. DOMINIQUE
It’s easy enough to spread the word he was faking insanity to avoid prosecution. And easy enough to assign him a keeper. Meanwhile, he’s a Dracon. And that name still carries weight, I believe.
344. BIG MAN
It does. But what would you want in exchange?
345. DOMINIQUE
Nothing extraordinary. Just the services of the Tinkerer.
346. BIG MAN
I believe that can be arranged.
347. DOMINIQUE
Lovely. But let’s not allow the moss to gather. You’ll want to move fast. Before the Octopus retrieves his arms…
Dominique and Big Man sit. SILVER SPOON MANAGER, Vulture, DOCTOR OCTOPUS and Electro STAND.
348. NARRATOR
The weather has turned cold. At the Silver Spoon, three men in trench coats and hats wait for their coffee.
349. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Sixty-nine!
350. VULTURE
Yes. Here.
351. NARRATOR
Vulture sits down with Electro and Doctor Octopus.
352. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Thank you, Adrian. Now. My arms?
353. VULTURE
In an OsCorp vault.
354. ELECTRO
At Rykers?!
355. VULTURE
<shhhhh> Not THE Vault. A vault. Still very high security, and the police are bound to expect our arrival, but…
356. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed. <sigh> OsCorp. Even in death, Norman Osborn torments me. But it cannot be helped. I must have my arms. We go in under cover of darkness tonight.
Doctor Octopus, Vulture and Electro sit. Silver Spoon Manager remains standing. Peter and Mary Jane STAND.
357. NARRATOR
The three men exit through one door. Two teenagers enter through another.
358. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy!
359. MARY JANE
Try to understand, Tiger. I just can’t do that to Gwen. She’s really become my best friend at Midtown.
360. PETER
But it’s not like we’d be making out or anything, right? Uh, right?
361. MARY JANE
Right.
362. PETER
Right, right. We’d be going as friends. Hanging out when the couples were … you know, coupling.
363. MARY JANE
And that would be great. But look at it from her point of view. She took all the risks, and you still wound up with Liz. There’s no way, she’d see me as anything but a threat. Wait, that sounded really conceited.
364. PETER
Have you looked in a mirror? Not conceited. Just fact.
365. MARY JANE
Ooh, nice one. Such a player.
366. PETER
Yeah, right. The world’s loneliest player.
367. MARY JANE
Stop it. I know you don’t want to hurt Gwen either. Not after all the two of you have been through.
368. PETER
Yeah… I wonder if Ms. Brant likes Miami. Kidding, kidding… Wow, pretty good. That was practically the Look.
369. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy-One!
SEYMOUR O’REILLY stands.
370. PETER
So you’re just not going?
371. MARY JANE
Oh, I’m going. It’s 48 degrees outside and 82 in Miami. I asked Tiny to be my plus one.
372. PETER
Tiny?! Tiny McKeever?! The guy’s got the brain of an amoeba. He makes King Kong look like a genius. Hell, he makes Flash look like Stephen Hawking!
373. MARY JANE
(shrugs)
He’s cute.
374. PETER
<argggh> I just wish I could skip the whole thing. But Aunt May’s going, and after her heart attack, I really think she could use some fun in the sun--
375. SEYMOUR
Sorry to interrupt. Couldn’t help overhearing.
376. PETER
Oh, hey, Seymour.
377. SEYMOUR
Just wanted to let you know Harry invited me too. And I’m totally going stag. I mean who wants a ball and chain when Miami Beach is full of hotties, right?
378. PETER
Uh…
379. SEYMOUR
Just don’t expect to hang out, okay. You’d fully cramp my style.
380. PETER
Of course I would…
381. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy-two!!
Silver Spoon Manager, Peter, Seymour and Mary Jane sit. Dominique and TINKERER STAND.
382. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, the Tinkerer arrives at the Destine Mansion…
383. DOMINIQUE
You have the devices?
384. TINKERER
Five was all I could put together on short notice. Unless you want to bring Mysterio in…?
385. DOMINIQUE
Our stage is crowded enough. And five should do quite nicely.
Dominique and Tinkerer sit. May, Mary Jane, GREG BISHANSKY, Sally, Gwen, Harry, Kong, Rand, Flash, Liz, Jason, Peter and Seymour STAND.
386. NARRATOR
Later that afternoon, Harry’s rented a party bus, and the gang is en route to the airport, stuck in heavy traffic on the expressway. A very prepared May Parker has a clipboard…
387. MAY
All right, we have three adults and sixteen children â€" sorry, sixteen teenagers. That’s nineteen sojourners bound for Florida. So why did my headcount come to twenty?
388. MARY JANE
I think you counted the bus driver, Mrs. Parker.
389. MAY
Oh, that I did.
390. BISHANSKY
Hey, twist my arm! I’ll go to Miami with you guys!!
391. SALLY
Was anyone talking to you?
392. BISHANSKY
Uh… no.
393. SALLY
Then eyes front.
394. BISHANSKY
Eyes front.
395. GWEN
Harry, are you all right?
396. HARRY
I dunno. All this stopping and starting. My stomach’s a little queasy…
397. KONG
Dude. Does this bus rock or what?!
398. RAND
‘Scool.
399. FLASH
Damn right it’s cool. Wouldn’t mind taking this baby all the way to Florida.
400. SALLY
Excuse me?! It’s a bus.
401. LIZ
Sally’s right. We’re not ditching the private jet for a bus. Right, Jason?
402. JASON
Uh…
403. SALLY
Right.
404. PETER
It really is a very nice bus though.
405. BISHANSKY
Hey, I’m not offended. I still can’t believe the Osborns hired me again. The last time, I got in two-- <impact grunt>
406. SEYMOUR
Dude, you totally rear-ended that guy at the tollbooth!
407. BISHANSKY
Not again…
408. SALLY
Wonderful. Now, we’ll be stuck here forever!
409. MAY
Everybody stay calm.
410. HARRY
Ah, man, gotta use the john…
411. KONG
<laughs> I think Osborn’s gonna hurl!
412. SALLY
Oh. My. God! If my hair starts smelling like vomit, I’ll sue you for bus-driver malpractice!!
413. BISHANSKY
Sorry, sorry…
Bishansky, Sally, Kong, Harry, May, Seymour, Peter, Jason, Liz, Flash, Rand, Gwen and Mary Jane sit. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
414. NARRATOR
The sun sets. At the castle, the gargoyles awaken…
415. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY, LEXINGTON
<awakening roars>
416. BROOKLYN
You must be Zafiro.
417. ZAFIRO
How did you know?
418. BROOKLYN
Strong family resemblance.
419. ZAFIRO
¿Perdón?
420. BROOKLYN
Long story. Time travel. The future. A whole other spin-off. Two actually…
421. OBSIDIANA
We don’t have time for your “spin-offsâ€. ¿Donde esta Goliath?
422. BROADWAY
He didn’t sleep here.
423. LEXINGTON
But I’m sure he’ll be back soon.
Elisa STANDS.
424. ELISA
He’d better. We have trouble. Demona trouble.
425. OBSIDIANA
Elisa!
426. ELISA
Hi, Obsidiana. I’m betting you have trouble too…
Elisa, Obsidiana, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Zafiro sit. Kraven, Calypso, Curt and Gulyadkin STAND.
427. NARRATOR
And while the clan awaits Goliath’s return…
428. KRAVEN
It is time, Calypso.
429. CALYPSO
Yes. The forces gather. We can make this one our own.
430. CURT
I demand you let me go!
431. KRAVEN
Hold your tongue, American dog. Or Gulyadkin will hold it for you.
432. GULYADKIN
<low lion growl>
433. CALYPSO
Calm yourself… This change will not be difficult. The primitive bound within is barely skin-deep…
434. CURT
I-- I don’t know what you’re talking about.
435. CALYPSO
I think you do. You see my companion. The details may have been created in a laboratory…
436. KRAVEN
But the soul of the Hunter â€" the beast inside â€" was always my own.
437. CURT
What are doing with that doll?
438. CALYPSO
Turning it inside out.
439. CURT
Listen to me, please. Even if you can release the “beast insideâ€, you don’t want to! It can’t be controlled.
440. KRAVEN
<laughs> Nyet. Not by you perhaps. But my Calypso is not so easily trifled with.
441. CALYPSO
It is time…
442. CURT
Noooo!!!! <transformation scream>
443. NARRATOR
Curt Connors is transformed by Calypso’s magic into the Lizard.
444. LIZARD
<roar>
445. KRAVEN
Now… to the Hunt!
Kraven, LIZARD, Calypso and Gulyadkin sit. Obsidiana, Zafiro, Angela, Elisa, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn STAND.
446. NARRATOR
Back at the Castle, Goliath has returned, and the entire clan has gathered. Elisa’s revealed what she knows about Demona. Now, it’s Obsidiana’s turn…
447. OBSIDIANA
It came from somewhere further south. Two human smugglers carrying an object of great power through the Green…
448. ZAFIRO
My mate is sensitive to these things. We tracked them, but they boarded a jet airplane and were soon out of our reach.
449. OBSIDIANA
Pero still I could sense great forces gathering. I asked Jade and Turquesa to teach us the way to Avalon…
450. ZAFIRO
Gabriel says hello, by the way.
451. ANGELA
Oh, I miss him. How is he?
452. ELISA
Angela, honey, let’s stay on point. I take it Avalon sent you here.
453. OBSIDIANA
Yes. We nearly achieved the totem, but a ridiculous human dressed in red and blueâ€"
454. ELISA, GOLIATH (UNISON)
Spider-Man…
455. OBSIDIANA
He did spin webs like a spider. Though from his hands, not hisâ€"
456. ZAFIRO
Focus, mi amor.
457. OBSIDIANA
Lo siento. This Man-Spider, he interfered. The smugglers escaped again. Now, power builds on power, rising to a crescendo.
458. BROADWAY
And that’s bad, right?
459. NARRATOR
Elisa’s cellphone rings.
Matt STANDS.
460. ELISA
Maza.
461. MATT
It’s Matt. Something’s going down at the OsCorp vault off the Expressway. Most of the Taskforce is already here. Stacy and his men too. But I’m thinking we might need… “back-upâ€. Lots and lots of back-up.
462. ELISA
We’re on our way. Brooklyn, can Bronx and Fu-Dog baby-sit Egwardo?
463. BROOKLYN
Of course.
464. ELISA
Good. Because otherwise it’s all hands on deck.
Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath and Angela sit. George, Morgan and O’Neil STAND.
465. MATT
Okay, Captain. The rest of the Taskforce is on its way.
466. GEORGE
My men are deployed.
467. O’NEIL
And just in time! Cuz we got Gobby and his Pumpkin-Heads at 12 o’clock!
Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
468. GREEN GOBLIN
Playtime!
469. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
470. MORGAN
And a gargoyle at 3 o’clock!
471. GEORGE
That’s not a gargoyle. That’s the Vulture!
Vulture STANDS.
472. VULTURE
You were right, Otto. The police were waiting. And the Goblin is here too. You don’t think it could actually be Osborn, still alive, do you?
Doctor Octopus and Electro STAND.
473. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Do not get distracted by old grudges, Adrian. It hardly matters who wears the Green. His intent is still to prevent me from regaining my arms. You must keep the Goblin and the authorities occupied.
474. VULTURE
Of course.
475. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Now, Electro. Open the vault.
476. ELECTRO
Roger that, Doc!
477. NARRATOR
Electro, already inside, short-circuits the vault’s electro-magnetic lock.
Tinkerer and Demona STAND.
478. TINKERER
Electro’s breached the vault.
479. DEMONA
So predictable. Send in your operatives.
480. NARRATOR
Tinkerer opens a burlap sack, releasing his five “operativesâ€.
HOMUNCULUS #1, HOMUNCULUS #2, HOMUNCULUS #3, HOMUNCULUS #4 and HOMUNCULUS #5 STAND.
481. HOMUNCULUS #1
Homunculi to the rescue!
482. HOMUNCULUS #2
Dirty work to be done!
483. HOMUNCULUS #3
Peach Cobbler!
484. HOMUNCULUS #4
Uh oh, somebody’s language system’s off-line again.
485. HOMUNCULUS #5
You know it, girlfriend!
Calypso, Kraven and Lizard STAND.
486. NARRATOR
And down in the sewer…
487. CALYPSO
It is right above us, my love. The Power and the Glory. The very keys to the Kingdom.
488. KRAVEN
And Kraven will lay them all at your feet.
489. LIZARD
<lizard roar>
490. NARRATOR
Up top, a stretch limo skids to a stop outside the vault. Dominic Dracon and Fancy Dan emerge.
Dracon and FANCY DAN STAND.
491. DRACON
All right, boys. Get me those jewels!
492. FANCY DAN
I think what the boss means is… Destroy the competition!
Carnage, Colonel Jupiter and Venom STAND.
493. CARNAGE
<evil chuckle> Carnage time?
494. FANCY DAN
Yeah. Go. Kill. Whatever.
495. COLONEL JUPITER
Colonel Jupiter will stop the Green Goblin and Vulture in their tracks!
496. FANCY DAN
Knock yourself out. But what are you waiting for?
497. VENOM
Someone worthy of our hate. But we have faith… He’ll come…
498. GREEN GOBLIN
My, my, the field’s getting crowded. Let’s thin the herd. Pumpkin-Heads, release the hounds! <ahem> That was a metaphor. Throw your pumpkin bombs already!
499. PUMPKIN BOMB
<multiple shrieks>
Pumpkin Bomb, Green Goblin, Venom, Fancy Dan, Colonel Jupiter, Carnage, Dracon, Lizard, Kraven, Calypso, Homunculus #5, Homunculus #4, Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Demona, Tinkerer, Electro, Doctor Octopus, Vulture, George, Morgan, O’Neil and Matt SIT. May, Peter, Bishansky, Flash, Kong, Sally, Mary Jane, Gwen and Harry STAND.
500. MAY
Goodness, what was that?
501. PETER
Something The Bugle will want pictures of. Open the door.
502. BISHANSKY
Uh…
503. MAY
Peter Parker, I am not letting you off this bus in the middle of the expressway.
504. PETER
Aunt May we’re at a complete standstill. And you don’t have to worry. I’ll use my telephoto lens. I won’t be anywhere near the action.
505. MAY
I suppose it is your job… Open the door.
506. BISHANSKY
Yes, ma’am.
507. PETER
Thanks, Aunt May. You rock!
508. FLASH
If Puny Parker’s going, I’m going too!
509. MAY
Eugene Thompson, you sit your backside down in that seat right this minute.
510. FLASH
Yes, ma’am.
511. KONG
<laughs>
512. SALLY
What’s he going to take pictures with? I saw his camera get blown up two months ago.
513. MARY JANE
Pete’s a professional photographer, Sally. I’m sure he has more than one camera.
514. GWEN
Harry… Are you all right in there?
515. HARRY
<vomit noise> Ugh, don’t come in. It really isn’t pretty.
Harry, Gwen, Mary Jane, Sally, Kong, Flash, May, Peter and Bishansky sit. Broadway, Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Elisa, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
516. NARRATOR
The clan alights on a rise overlooking the battlefield.
517. BROADWAY
Whoa, what a mess…
518. GOLIATH
We will split our forces. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro with me.
519. BROOKLYN
Shouldn’t I lead the other contingent?
520. GOLIATH
I need your experience and your weapons at my side.
521. ANGELA
Don’t worry, Brooklyn, we’ve got it covered.
522. NARRATOR
Angela, Hudson, Katana, Gnash, Coldstone and Coldfire glide toward the battle.
523. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY (UNISON)
Be careful!
Angela sits.
524. ELISA
You know I’m going with you.
525. GOLIATH
Not this time, Elisa. You must join your fellow officers…
526. ELISA
Butâ€"
527. GOLIATH
When all is settled, we shall need your help to cover our retreat from this conflagration… You know this is true.
528. ELISA
(defeated)
Yes.
Elisa sits. Spider-Man STANDS.
529. NARRATOR
Elisa makes her way down the hill. Goliath and the others glide to the Vault’s roof. Spider-Man lands there at the same time.
530. SPIDER-MAN, ZAFIRO (UNISON)
You again!
531. GOLIATH
Hold, Spider-Man. I have a friend who knows your Captain Stacy.
532. SPIDER-MAN
Really?
533. GOLIATH
This policeman believes in you. So I choose to believe in you as well.
534. SPIDER-MAN
Says the eight-foot tall medieval monster. But I get it. We’re on the same side. So let’s go kick some Pumpkin-Butt!
535. ZAFIRO
¡Idiota! That battle is a mere distraction.
536. OBSIDIANA
The true danger lies within…
537. SPIDER-MAN
All right, all right, you had me at “Idiotaâ€.
538. NARRATOR
The gargoyles rip open the rooftop. The seven heroes descend, but someone watches…
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn sit. Venom and Fancy Dan STAND.
539. VENOM
And there goes our Bro…
540. FANCY DAN
You going in? That wasn’t the plan!
541. VENOM
And how do intend to stop us?
542. FANCY DAN
Fine, go. But if you see my Ricochet suit, bring it out!
Fancy Dan and Venom sit. Foswell, Jonah and Robbie STAND.
543. FOSWELL
See, J.J. The tip from Dracon’s old chauffer was right on the money.
544. JONAH
Whaddaya want, a fershlugginer medal?! Let’s get in there!
545. ROBBIE
Slow down, Jonah. I promised Joan I wouldn’t let you lose your head, figuratively or literally.
546. JONAH
Forget my head! Who cares about my head?! My boy needs me!
Ned and Colonel Jupiter STAND.
547. NED
Looks to me like your boy’s doing pretty well, Chief!
548. COLONEL JUPITER
Take that, miscreants!
549. ROBBIE
Ned, how did youâ€"
550. NED
Tip from one of the pumpkin-heads. Foswell’s not the only one with sources.
551. JONAH
You two can naked mud-wrestle over who’s the biggest brown-noser later. For now, Robbie, if you don’t let go of me in zero-point-zero seconds, I’ll dropkick you to next Season! And there’s no guarantee there’ll be a next Season!
552. NARRATOR
Jonah breaks away from Robbie, but his path is blocked…
Elisa STANDS.
553. ELISA
Get back! You want to wind up street pizza!
554. JONAH
But that’s my son up there.
555. ELISA
Yeah, well, at least he’s fighting on the right side.
556. COLONEL JUPITER
Nothing stands against the might of Colonel Jupiter!
557. ELISA
Does he always talk like that?
558. ROBBIE
Bombasticism runs in the family.
Robbie, Elisa, Colonel Jupiter, Jonah, Ned and Foswell sit. Vulture, Carnage, Green Goblin, Angela, Fancy Dan, Matt and Dracon STAND.
559. NARRATOR
Jupiter takes down Pumpkin-Heads right and left. Hudson squares off against Vulture.
560. VULTURE
Why do I get the old guy?
561. NARRATOR
You’re old. He’s old. It’s parallelism. Get over it.
(beat)
Coldstone and Coldfire isolate Carnage.
562. CARNAGE
No fair! These two don’t spatter at all!
563. NARRATOR
Angela and Katana take on the Goblin.
564. GREEN GOBLIN
Oh, goody. Gobby likes getting down and dirty with the hotties.
565. ANGELA
Oh, you did not just say that.
566. NARRATOR
And little Gnash goes after Fancy Dan.
567. FANCY DAN
Admit it, you gave me the kid because I’m short?
568. NARRATOR
Even Detective Bluestone gets into the act.
569. MATT
Freeze, Dracon!
570. DRACON
You’re confused. I’m G.F. Benton, a certified public accountant. I think I’ll be going now…
571. MATT
Yeah. Back to Ravencroft, you old nutter!
572. NARRATOR
But inside, things are a bit more serious…
Matt, Dracon, Fancy Dan, Angela, Green Goblin, Carnage and Vulture sit. Electro and Doctor Octopus STAND.
573. ELECTRO
Got your arms, Doc!
574. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
And my Megalo-Pack?
575. ELECTRO
You’re Mega-what now?
576. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
My power-source, Maxwell.
577. ELECTRO
Right, right. No. That’s not here.
578. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
What?!
Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #3 STAND.
579. HOMUNCULUS #1
Gotta get the true treasure!
580. HOMUNCULUS #2
Bring it back to the big Smurfette!
581. HOMUNCULUS #3
Blunk hates getting wet!
582. NARRATOR
Three Homunculi fly deeper into the vault to retrieve Demona’s prize.
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Zafiro, Spider-Man, Lexington, Homunculus #5, Goliath, Brooklyn, Broadway and Obsidiana STAND.
583. ZAFIRO
What are those things?!
584. SPIDER-MAN, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
Robots!
585. LEXINGTON
And I got one!
586. HOMUNCULUS #5
Leggo, you big bully!
587. LEXINGTON
<ugh> What an annoying voice…
588. HOMUNCULUS #5
(aside to audience)
Look who’s talking.
589. LEXINGTON
…But I might be able to use it to take control of the others.
590. SPIDER-MAN
I think I can help.
Venom STANDS.
591. VENOM
You’ll be a little too busy for that, Bro.
592. GOLIATH
Friend of yours?
593. SPIDER-MAN
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
594. VENOM
Die, Spider-Man!
595. VENOM, SPIDER-MAN
<add-lib battle sounds>
596. SPIDER-MAN
A little help?
597. NARRATOR
Brooklyn blasts Venom, who collapses.
598. VENOM
<vibrating scream>
Venom sits.
599. BROOKLYN
Sonic Cannon. Circa 2198. Guess my weapons do come in handy.
600. LEXINGTON
Just cover me until I can get this working…
Demona and Tinkerer STAND.
601. DEMONA
What’s wrong, Tinkerer? Why haven’t they returned?
602. TINKERER
Someone’s trying to counter their programming. He won’t succeed.
603. DEMONA
He had better not.
604. LEXINGTON
My hack’s being hacked!
605. TINKERER
He’s overriding my override!
Homunculus #4 STANDS.
606. HOMUNCULUS #4
Go right. Go left. Go right. Go left. Blow up!
607. NARRATOR
Homunculus #4 blows up. But so does Homunculus #5 in Lexington’s hands!
608. LEXINGTON
<pain cry>
609. BROADWAY
Lexington!
Homunculus #4 and Homunculus #5 sit.
610. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
This is madness! Grab my arms and get me out of here!
611. ELECTRO
Workin’ on it!
612. NARRATOR
Electro blasts away, until he and Doc Ock are blindsided by…
Kraven, Gulyadkin, Lizard and Calypso STAND.
613. ELECTRO, DOCTOR OCTOPUS
<impacts>
614. BROADWAY
Look, it’s Claw.
615. KRAVEN
<roar>
616. BROOKLYN
That’s not Claw.
617. BROADWAY
Well, it’s sure not Maggie.
618. GULYADKIN
<lion roar>
619. LEXINGTON
(recovering)
Is that an actual lion?
620. LIZARD
<lizard roar>
621. SPIDER-MAN
Lizard, too? Seriously, this is way over the top.
Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
622. HOMUNCULUS #1
Got the gizmo!
623. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi never fail!
624. NARRATOR
Two homunculi fly past, carrying a sealed container down a dark corridor.
625. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA (UNISON)
The totem!
(pointing at each other)
Don’t let her near it!
626. KRAVEN
Go, Calypso! Leave them to us!
627. ZAFIRO
¡Vaya, mi amor!
628. BROOKLYN
We got your back, Goliath! Go!
629. SPIDER-MAN
Think I’ll tag along too…
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Calypso, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Goliath, Tinkerer and Demona sit.
630. NARRATOR
Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spider-Man race down the corridor.
631. KRAVEN
Lizard, take the reptile!
632. ZAFIRO
¡No soy ningún reptil! ¡Soy un Gárgolo!
633. ZAFIRO, LIZARD
<ad-lib battle sounds>
634. KRAVEN
Gulyadkin attack!
635. GULYADKIN
<pounce roar>
636. NARRATOR
Gulyadkin and Kraven attack Lex and Broadway!
637. LEXINGTON
Hey, get him off me!
638. BROADWAY
Kinda busy at the moment!
639. GULYADKIN, LEXINGTON, KRAVEN, BROADWAY
<ad-lib struggles>
640. NARRATOR
Brooklyn steps in and pulls both cats off his rookery brothers. They turn on him.
641. BROOKLYN
Uh oh.
642. BROADWAY, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
All for one!
643. NARRATOR
The two gargoyles return the favor, knocking Kraven and Gulyadkin aside. Then Brooklyn blasts them both.
644. BROOKLYN
And one for all!
645. KRAVEN, GULYADKIN
<blast impacts>
646. LEXINGTON
Some things never change.
647. NARRATOR
Zafiro throws Lizard’s unconscious body on top of Kraven…
648. KRAVEN, LIZARD
<oofs>
649. ZAFIRO
We should follow Obsidiana…
650. ZAFIRO, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY
<electrocution scream>
651. NARRATOR
The four gargoyles are dropped by Electro’s blast.
652. ELECTRO
Still want out?
653. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed not. My curiosity is piqued. Let’s see where this leads…
Doctor Octopus, Electro, Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn, Zafiro, Gulyadkin, Kraven and Lizard sit. Demona, Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
654. NARRATOR
Electro and Octopus head down the corridor… In a dimly lit room, Demona holds the Spear of Destiny and watches as the two homunculi open the container. Inside… is a crown of thorns.
655. DEMONA
The Crown of Thorns!
656. NARRATOR
Demona removes her tiara.
657. DEMONA
Place it on my head…
658. HOMUNCULUS #1
Placing, placing…
659. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi aim to please!
660. NARRATOR
The Homunculi gently lower the crown onto Demona’s head before disappearing back into the darkness. The thorns bite into her brow, drawing blood. Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spidey come rushing in.
Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Spider-Man, Goliath, Calypso and Obsidiana STAND.
661. DEMONA
My Kingdom come. My Will be done…
662. SPIDER-MAN
Friend of yours?
663. GOLIATH
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
664. DEMONA
On Earth as it is in Heaven…
665. CALYPSO
Too late…
666. OBSIDIANA
Too late…
667. DEMONA
For MINE is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory for ever and ever…
668. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA, SPIDER-MAN (UNISON)
Amen…
669. NARRATOR
Light radiates outward from the Spear. Goliath watches in confusion as Calypso, Obsidiana and Spider-Man drop to their knees before Demona. Octopus and Electro enter and likewise fall to their knees. The light reaches the outer vault. Though still unconscious, Venom, Lizard, Zafiro and Kraven lurch to their feet, then drop to their knees. And still the light advances…
Obsidiana and Calypso sit.
670. GOLIATH
What sorcery is this?!
671. DEMONA
The most powerful human sorcery ever created, Goliath. This is humanity’s Armageddon. Their entire race’s final act.
END ACT TWO
NEXT: ACT THREE...
Vaevictis Asmadi writes...
Following up on what Clark asked, how is that such a powerful artifact, the Phoenix Gate, is used by such a simple incantation that even Goliath, certainly no trained sorcerer, quickly learned it? Maybe I'm conditioned by role-playing games to assume that more powerful magic will always be harder to learn than the weak magic, but it seems quite strange to me that the Phoenix Gate incantation, and for that matter the incantation to enter Avalon, are so easily learned when they seem to be quite powerful spells.
Greg responds...
It has to do with the nature of the Gate and of Avalon. I don't want to go into too many details (particularly on the former) when we're so close to the release of the Trade.
Vaevictis Asmadi writes...
Hello Greg,
I have a question about language and translations.
Concerning the language "issue" in the Avalon World Tour, and the fact that everybody encountered by the travellers seems to speak English, you once wrote,
<<"Avalon compensates when it sends people to where they need to be...">>
From your response to my "Reunion" review, long ago, it appears this is still the case in canon-in-training. But is this also why Angela can apparently speak English? She seems to speak English in Manhattan. At least, she and Elisa understand one another. It also seems that something was happening when Tom came to New York, and spoke to Morgan and Elisa. Likewise, King Arthur is able to speak to Griff and the Manhattan Clan. And the Avalon clan and their human parents had no trouble talking to Elisa. King Arthur, Tom, the Magus, and Katherine all went to Avalon before the Norman Invasion of England, so they cannot possibly have learned anything resembling modern English before they went there.
1. What is the reason that Angela, Tom, and King Arthur can communicate with modern English speakers?
2a. Do they notice they (or the people they are talking to) are speaking a different language?
b. Did Elisa, Goliath, and Angela notice the language changes during the World Tour?
3. Yes or no: Is this effect(s) on Angela and/or King Arthur permanent?
Greg responds...
1. Again, I'm reduced to the notion that Avalon compensates.
2a. They don't seem to.
2b. They didn't seem to.
3. Seems to be.
dph writes...
I have a question about the hours of daylight/dark on Avalon. Given that one year (365 days) in the real world is just over 15 days,
1) Do the hours of daylight and dark vary on Avalon? (ie. sunrise one day is 6:25am, sunrise another day is 6:35am)
2) Do the amount of hours of daylight and dark vary on Avalon? (ie. One day has 13 hours of daylight, another day has 13 hours of dark)
Greg responds...
It's always summer.
dph writes...
Previous in Ask Greg you've stated (from this page - http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10195)
Matt writes...
I've been crunching some numbers concerning the Avalon Clan and their breeding cycles.
Now, the beasts on Avalon should have already started breeding by 1996. No eggs should've hatched yet, but there should be one egg on Avalon waiting to hatch in 2038.
The gargoyles however are another matter since they must be much older than beasts to reach breeding age.
Lets take Ophelia for example. In 1996, Angela and Ophelia (who hatched in 1058) are about 39 years old. The need to be about 50 before their first mating. For Angela, in the real world, this will come 11 years later when she concieves the egg containing Artus in 2007. For Ophelia on Avalon however, 11 more years will equal 264 real world years! Which means she wouldn't be old enough to mate until the year 2,260 AD (To get her in tune with the Earth rhtyms we'll say the fall equinox of 2,267AD.)
So, what I'm wondering is, you've said that the Avalon Clan would be bringing eggs to Queen Florence Island in 2198, but I think they are only gonna have a beast egg or two to bring since none of the gargoyles will be old enough yet, is this correct? What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks Greg.
Greg responds...
I'm not sure your premises follow...
I'm fairly certain Ophelia will lay an egg at the same time as Angela -- assuming she's alive at the time. The physical maturity to lay an egg may be reached before the planetary bio-rhythm is, if that makes sense.
The truth is... I've worked all this out in the past, but I just don't have the energy or the time right this minute to go back and confirm my math. But I think I'm right.
Also, previous in Ask Greg you've stated - ( http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=7564 )
Faieq writes...
A while ago I noticed a short ramble of yours entitled 'While I'm thinking of it...' It was rambled on Monday 4th March 2002. I won't repeat the whole thing here, however the beginning started off with you repeating an exchange between you and Aris Katsaris concerning the date Angela and the other eggs on Avalon would have hatched and underneath your response you wrote;
"With all this in mind...
I know I've established -- both here and in my own head (particularly with regards to G2198) that eggs hatch on the Spring Equinox.
But does anyone remember whether (and where) I've established what month the eggs are laid in?
I can't recall if this has come up yet.
Anyone know? And would this solve my problems at all?"
Recently I remember another question previously submitted on Friday October 13th by Aris Katsaris that may help you.
"Aris Katsaris writes...
A small tidbit that you revealed through the last contest was that the hatching of the eggs takes place in March 21st - the Spring Equinox, that is.
Now, I always felt it would be on an equinox or a solstice- those are the only dates that make sense really... Is the laying of the eggs also done on the Spring Equinox (ten years earlier ofcourse)?
How about the egg's conceiving? Have you decided how much time is spent between the eggs's conceiving and laying?
Greg responds...
That's interesting. Maybe.
As for conception, maybe I'll make it a six month term and put it on the fall equinox.
The truth is I chose March 21st because it's my son's birthday. But sometimes things in the Garg Universe just seem to come together. It's cool that way.
recorded on 10-20-00"
From your above response I assume that the eggs would be laid on the spring equinox, with the females being fertile on the fall equinox from the previous year.
I don't know whether this would clarify any problems over when the eggs hatched, but I hope it helps.
Greg responds...
I agree, it helps. Thanks.
I also don't know if it fixes my math problems, but I'm hopeful. And I like the idea of females being in heat at the fall equinox and laying their eggs in the spring (and the eggs hatching ten years later in the spring). For a race, that is so attuned to the bio-rhythms of their planet, it just feels right.
I don't think that literally all the eggs are conceived on the EXACT same night. Same with laying. Same with hatching to some extent too. There's probably something like a three night window for these things (say, two nights on either side of the equinox).
Now, here's my questions: Assuming that the fall equinox of 2008 is at night time on Avalon,
1)is the window of opportunity for Ophelia to became pregnant on Avalon a few hours or a few days? I know this sounds rather dumb, but given that time passes more slowly on Avalon and the in real world, you've there a window of opportunity of 2-3 days before and after, I was wondering if that window of opportunity was shortened on Avalon because of the difference in the way time passes.
2)Normal gargoyle pregnancies are 6 months. If that time was spent on Avalon, that amounts to 6 months * 24 Avalon time differential to equal 144 months or 12 years in the real world. If Ophelia was to become pregnant in 2008 and stay on Avalon the entire duration of her pregnancy, her egg wouldn't be ready to be laid until 2020. 2020 is 2 years after eggs normally laid in 2008 would normally hatch. Would Ophelia be able to lay the egg in 2020 or would she have to wait until 2028 to lay the egg?
Greg responds...
I don't know. I'm sorry, I should know, I guess. But this stuff is so damn complicated that I can't just answer off the top of my head anymore without getting myself in trouble.
MARCH 21
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
March 21st...
1058
In Avalon, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca and thirty-two other gargoyles and gargoyle beasts hatch out of their eggs.
1924
Mace disappears with a fortune in jewels to become a full-time operative for the Illuminati. He writes a letter to Dominic Dracon, taunting him with false clues about the location of the jewels.
2198
From around the globe, human heads of state and all twelve Gargoyle Clan Leaders come to Queen Florence Island for the hatching. The Space-Spawn attacks, abducting the gargoyle eggs and the human and gargoyle leaders, including U.N. Secretary General Alexander Fox Xanatos IV. And in Antarctica, Earth's Master Matrix Computer is stolen. The Space-Spawn invasion has begun.
FEBRUARY 22
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 22nd...
1996
The Weird Sisters track down Oberon in his mortal identity. They inform him that mortals have infested Avalon. Oberon decides that the time of the Gathering is indeed at hand and sets out to find his former queen, Titania.
FEBRUARY 12
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 12th...
1996
After [withheld], King Arthur Pendragon returns to Avalon, unsure whether or not he'll ever go back to the real world.
FEBRUARY 8
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 8th...
1996
On Avalon, Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. Quite aware they won't be getting home any time soon, the travelers elect to spend "a few days" resting and getting to know the Avalon Clan. And in Nigeria, Tea is marked by a were-panther on the day she departs for the city of Abuja.
Vaevictis Asmadi writes...
I have a question about the Mayan Clan and their pendants, I was looking at some recent This Day entries and found myself wondering about something.
From This Day in Gargoyles Universe History:
<<After sundown, the travelers depart. But they bring Jade and Turquesa along to transplant samples of the rain forest flora in Avalon. They arrive on the mystic island at dawn and Goliath, Angela and Bronx sleep through the Avalonian day. Elisa introduces Jade and Turquesa to Princess Katharine and the Guardian, and all spend the day scouting Avalon for a good location for the rain forest transplants.>>
I'm a little unclear on what is described here. Does it mean that Jade and Turquesa also spent the day awake? That they brought the pendants onto the island?
Greg responds...
Seems they did. Hmmmm.... It's only canon-in-training, so I have to decide if I made a mistake there, or if there's an explanation. Sounds like a mistake though, doesn't it?
JANUARY 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 29th...
1995
It starts to snow. Elisa Maza gives Derek Maza a recording of Fox's revelations. The gargoyles hide the helicopter - permanently. Jackal and Hyena are arrested on charges of attempted murder.
1996
Rory Dugan wakes, unsure if his previous night's adventures were a dream. That night, he and Molly enter the Cairn, and Rory recovers Gae Bolga, the Spear of Light. The Spear transforms Rory, revealing he is the reincarnation of the ancient Irish hero Cu Chullain. In order to defeat him, Molly becomes first the Banshee and then the death-worm, Crom-Cruach. With Bronx's help, Cu Chullain defeats Crom-Cruach, banishing the Banshee. Cu Chullain transforms back into Rory, but he keeps possession of Gae Bolga and will remain the Hero of Ulster. The travelers return to Avalon, where it is morning. The gargoyles turn to stone.
JANUARY 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 28th...
1995
Lexington begins to repair Jackal's helicopter. Elisa Maza confronts Fox in prison. Fox reveals that David Xanatos created the Pack, and is using Jackal and Hyena to cement Derek Maza's loyalty. Elisa records Fox's conversation. Derek flies Xanatos to his upstate retreat, 'Xanadu'. Again, Jackal and Hyena attack. And again, the Manhattan Clan intervenes, using the repaired helicopter to defeat and capture the twins.
1996
In the morning, Rory Dugan returns home and argues with his father, Mr. Dugan. That evening at sunset, Elisa Maza, Goliath and Angela wake up to find themselves trapped inside Cairn na Chullain by the Banshee, who is convinced they have been sent by Oberon to bring her back to Avalon for the Gathering. Rory, looking for Molly, encounters Bronx instead. When the Banshee realizes that Rory and "the Great Beast" are together, she appears to Rory and lures him away from Bronx.
JANUARY 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 27th...
1995
Derek Maza starts working for David Xanatos. Jackal and Hyena attack them, but the Trio intervenes. Lexington manages to land Jackal's helicopter and hide it.
1996
In Ireland, Rory Dugan and his girlfriend Molly steal a jacket from a local shop and manage to elude the police - just as the four travelers arrive from Avalon. The Banshee quickly captures Elisa Maza, Angela and Goliath.
JANUARY 26
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 26th...
1994
The Emir's son is killed in a pointless car accident.
1995
Fox orders Hyena and Jackal to assassinate David Xanatos. And that morning, Derek Maza decides to quit the NYPD and accept Xanatos' job offer.
1996
At midnight, the Emir summons and imprisons Anubis, the Egyptian god of death. Elisa Maza and the gargoyles attempt to intervene but are captured. The Emir tries to force Anubis to bring his late son back to life. When Anubis refuses, the Emir attempts to become an avatar of Anubis' power. But Jackal intercepts the spell and becomes the Avatar of Anubis instead. Mad with power, Jackal destroys Coyote 3.0 and brings death to an entire Egyptian town, before the Emir recasts his spell and becomes the new Avatar. The Emir now understands that death cannot play favorites, and he destroys the temple to prevent anyone else from ever gaining access to Anubis' power. Elisa and the gargoyles spend the day outside the Sphinx. Then they return to Avalon. What's left of the Pack scatters.
JANUARY 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 24th...
1995
Elisa Maza gives the Trio a helicopter simulation video game.
1996
Goliath, Angela, Elisa Maza and Bronx rest through the day in London, allowing Goliath's injured wing to heal. That night, they return to Avalon. Griff, Leo and Una become protectors of London again.
JANUARY 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 23rd...
1996
The travelers immediately depart Avalon again, landing in London, where they meet Leo and Una, who remember Goliath from 1940 and blame him for the death of Griff. Goliath is mystified, and uses the Phoenix Gate to travel back in time to 1940, in an attempt to learn the truth and save Griff. He and Griff return to 1996, reuniting Griff with Leo and Una.
JANUARY 22
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 22nd...
1996
"Dominique Destine" marries "Lennox Macbeth". But as the sun sets, Macbeth learns the truth when Dominique transforms back into Demona. She quickly renders him unconscious. But when Thailog arrives, he secretly helps Macbeth escape. His plan is for Macbeth and Demona to kill each other so that he will inherit both their fortunes. Elisa Maza intervenes by temporarily "killing" both of them. Demona flees with Thailog, but Macbeth and the gargoyles declare a truce. Later, Elisa and the gargoyles take the skiff back to Avalon.
JANUARY 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 20th...
1995
Demona attempts to poison Elisa Maza in order to lure Goliath to his doom. Knowing it's a trap, Goliath and Hudson take the bait in the hope they can reason with Demona. Demona shoots Goliath, and Hudson struggles to keep him alive and protect him from Demona until sunrise.
1996
Halcyon Renard puts his own soul inside the Golem's body, and his newfound power quickly goes to his head. Ultimately, however, he is made to see the error of his ways, and he returns the Golem to Max Loew, who uses it against Tomas Brod. Renard offers to take the travelers back to New York. But Goliath has concluded that there is a purpose to their travels. They return to Avalon to continue their odyssey.
JANUARY 19
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 19th...
1996
The travelers depart Avalon and arrive in Prague, where Halcyon Renard has made a devil's agreement with gangster Tomas Brod to acquire the Golem. Elisa Maza encounters Max Loew, who attempts to waken the Golem. But before he can, it is stolen by Brod, who turns it over to Renard.
JANUARY 18
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 18th...
1996
Angela, Bronx, Elisa Maza and Goliath sink the mini-sub, and return to Avalon.
simon jardine writes...
What is the translation of the spell that gives you entry to Avalon.
Greg responds...
Honestly, I forget what the spell is, let alone the translation.
Matt writes...
I've been crunching some numbers concerning the Avalon Clan and their breeding cycles.
Now, the beasts on Avalon should have already started breeding by 1996. No eggs should've hatched yet, but there should be one egg on Avalon waiting to hatch in 2038.
The gargoyles however are another matter since they must be much older than beasts to reach breeding age.
Lets take Ophelia for example. In 1996, Angela and Ophelia (who hatched in 1058) are about 39 years old. The need to be about 50 before their first mating. For Angela, in the real world, this will come 11 years later when she concieves the egg containing Artus in 2007. For Ophelia on Avalon however, 11 more years will equal 264 real world years! Which means she wouldn't be old enough to mate until the year 2,260 AD (To get her in tune with the Earth rhtyms we'll say the fall equinox of 2,267AD.)
So, what I'm wondering is, you've said that the Avalon Clan would be bringing eggs to Queen Florence Island in 2198, but I think they are only gonna have a beast egg or two to bring since none of the gargoyles will be old enough yet, is this correct? What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks Greg.
Greg responds...
I'm not sure your premises follow...
I'm fairly certain Ophelia will lay an egg at the same time as Angela -- assuming she's alive at the time. The physical maturity to lay an egg may be reached before the planetary bio-rhythm is, if that makes sense.
The truth is... I've worked all this out in the past, but I just don't have the energy or the time right this minute to go back and confirm my math. But I think I'm right.
JANUARY 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 4th...
1066
Edward the Confessor dies of natural causes. His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, succeeds him.
1995
Goliath, Lexington, Bronx and Brooklyn return to Castle Wyvern atop the Eyrie Building but are intercepted by Elisa Maza, Hudson and Broadway, who finally manage to convince Goliath to follow Elisa to their new home at the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct -- but not before Goliath warns Owen Burnett that the clan will some day return. David Xanatos is finally released from jail that morning and returns to the castle. He starts serving his probation. Later that day, Xanatos goes to Gen-U-Tech Systems to observe Anton Sevarius' progress. Sevarius has successfully cloned Goliath and begins to accelerate the growth of "Thailog".
1996
Hudson and the Trio have been searching for Goliath and Bronx to no avail. Broadway, realizing that Elisa Maza is missing too, brings her cat Cagney back to the Clock Tower. Brooklyn resists taking the reins of leadership, but he does go to visit Talon and Maggie the Cat in the Labyrinth, where homeless humans like Al, Chaz and Lou have joined the Mutates in what is supposed to be a free society of outcasts. Broadway visits Matt Bluestone next, but Matt is equally in the dark over his partner's disappearance. Lex eavesdrops on Elisa's parents and learns they are also worried. Meanwhile on Queen Florence Island, Elisa and the gargoyles find each other again, and then find Grandmother as she transforms into the Thunderbird. Grandmother later admits that she was undergoing these transformations to convince Natsilane to take up arms against Raven to save the island. When Natsilane meets the gargoyles, he is convinced. The gargoyles and Natsilane battle Raven and drive him away. With Raven gone, Grandmother is able to heal the island. The travelers again return to Avalon, where it is six in the morning, causing Goliath, Angela and Bronx to turn to stone.
JANUARY 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 3rd...
1995
Macbeth attacks the gargoyles at the Eyrie Building, capturing Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx. Elisa Maza, who is largely recovered but still on crutches from being shot, again tries to convince Goliath to leave the castle. He won't listen, but after Goliath departs to find the others, she manages to convince Hudson and Broadway that the castle is no longer their home. They take the Grimorum Arcanorum from Owen Burnett and leave the castle. Meanwhile, Bronx escapes and leads Goliath back to Macbeth's mansion. Macbeth and Goliath battle, Macbeth revealing that his true target is Demona. Macbeth's mansion is damaged by fire, and the gargoyles escape.
1996
The travelers depart Avalon again, arriving on Queen Florence Island off the west coast of Canada, where they immediately encounter Grandmother in the form of a Sea Monster. Elisa is separated from the others and washes ashore, where she is found by Grandmother and Natsilane, the chief of the local Haida band. Elisa is alive, but gravely ill. Grandmother helps heal her. That night, Goliath, Angela and Bronx encounter Raven posing as a gargoyle.
JANUARY 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 2nd...
1996
The Captain has a change of heart and rescues Goliath. The Captain's spirit ascends. Hakon is trapped alone in the caverns below Wyvern. The quartet of travelers return to Avalon so that they may attempt to find Manhattan again. Meanwhile in Paris, Demona encounters Thailog. They quickly form an alliance.
JANUARY 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 1st...
1996
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
DECEMBER 30
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 30th...
1995
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.
DECEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 28th...
1065
Westminster Abbey, built by Edward the Confessor, is consecrated.
1994
David Xanatos, who is scheduled to be released from jail in one week, is contacted by Macbeth, who offers to rid the castle of gargoyles.
1995
Goliath and Tom the Guardian meet at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. Together with Elisa Maza and Bronx, they depart for Avalon, where they are introduced to the grown hatchlings of the Wyvern Clan, including Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca, and reunited with the Magus and Princess Katharine. Meanwhile, a recently transformed Archmage travels back in time...
DECEMBER 22
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 22nd...
1995
Just before dawn, the gargoyles are attacked by "Macbeth". After sunrise, David Xanatos kidnaps Hudson's sleeping body and replaces it with a stone statue. At sundown, the other gargoyles awaken and believe that Macbeth has used sorcery to keep Hudson asleep. Goliath & Lexington search for a cure, while Brooklyn & Broadway protect the statue from "Macbeth". Meanwhile, Xanatos reveals that in his bid for immortality, he plans to use Hudson to test the Cauldron of Life. And on Avalon, the Archmages and their allies launch their attack on the Avalon Clan.
TiniTinyTony writes...
Questions concerning Avalon Parts 1 - 3:
1) Will we see the adventures of Tom in any of the Gargoyles Spinoffs or main comic?
2) Will there be any repercussions for waking up King Arthur "early" and will we see those repercussions in the comics? If so, which comic?
3) Who's face is represented on the front of the Avalon boats?
4) Who's face is represented at the watery gateway to Avalon, where Magus turned the Weird Sisters into owls?
5) Do all 36 Avalon Gargoyles survive the Archmage's assault?
6) Any chance the magic in the sleeping hill will one day revive Magus or is he dead and gone forever?
Greg responds...
1. Yes, eventually.
2. Yes. Pendragon, among others.
3. Not revealing that at this time.
4. Ditto.
5. Yes.
6. Who am I to kill hope? Hope lives eternal. The Magus, on the other hand, is dead.
DECEMBER 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 5th...
1995
The two Archmages reunite outside Avalon with the Weird Sisters, who have brought Demona, Macbeth, the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and The Grimorum Arcanorum. The three talismans are given to the "younger" of the two Archmages, and he is transformed into a double of his future self. They enter Avalon and prepare to attack its inhabitants.
NOVEMBER 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 23rd...
1963
Quincy Hemings becomes White House Chief Steward.
1995
Matt finds and confronts Mace Malone at Pine Lawn Cemetery. Malone offers Matt an Illuminati membership on the condition that he pass a loyalty test. As a show of good faith, Malone tells Matt about the gargoyles and Elisa's involvement with them. Matt stews about the information for most of the night, i.e. for most of his shift with Elisa. The ghosts of Hakon and the Captain hear Tom talking to himself. They discover that Goliath is possibly still alive. Tom returns to Avalon to discuss this latest news with the Magus and Princess Katharine.
NOVEMBER 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 20th...
1994
Elisa, now out of danger, regains consciousness just before dawn. Broadway apologizes to her. Dracon wakes up with a permanent grey streak in his hair.
1995
The Guardian departs Avalon to see if it is safe for the Avalon Clan to leave the island. Avalon sends him to Wyvern Hill, where he sees that Castle Wyvern is now gone.
NOVEMBER 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 2nd...
1996
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
6:46am EST - [withheld]
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5:12pm EST - [withheld]
5:14pm EST - [withheld]
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SEPTEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 28th...
994
Tom, Mary and other refugees are given shelter from rampaging Vikings at Castle Wyvern.
995
Michaelmas Eve. Tom and the Magus get the eggs out of Edinburgh Castle. Finella drugs Constantine so that Katharine can escape, and flees with the Princess, Tom, Mary, the Magus and the eggs. The Magus brings them all to the mystic island of Avalon. He is forced to battle the Weird Sisters to achieve the island. He turns them into owls but is unable to take the Grimorum with him. Finella and Mary agree to take the book and keep it safe from Constantine. They depart. Katharine, Tom and the Magus land on Avalon with the eggs. The two time-traveling Archmages witness all this and rescue the Weird Sisters from their owl-state. The Archmages and the Sisters form an alliance. They agree to meet again in the year 1020.
1963
Vinnie Grigori is born in New York.
1980
In Paris, Demona steals the Praying Gargoyle statue from Notre Dame Cathedral. Confronted by Charles Canmore, the Hunter, she kills him and escapes. Canmore's children, Jason, Robyn and Jon swear vengeance.
1995
At midnight, Demona uses Titania's Mirror to summon Puck. They turn Elisa and all the humans in Manhattan into gargoyles and vice versa. The situation is soon reversed, but Puck arranges it so that Demona is human during the day and a gargoyle at night. Fox contacts Preston Vogel, inducing him to betray her father Halcyon Renard.
1996
Xanatos and his robots track Coldstone down in the Himalayas and disable him.
JULY 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 6th...
1996
Oberon defeats Angela, Gabriel and Goliath and returns them to his Palace. But Tom and Katharine use the iron bell to bring Oberon to his knees. An agreement is reached that will allow Tom, Katharine and the Avalon Clan of Gargoyles to remain on the island as Oberon's Honor Guard. Oberon promises to never use his magicks directly against any member of Goliath's clan. Titania and Oberon renew their vows of marriage, and Oberon initiates the Gathering of the Third Race.
JULY 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 4th...
1996
The travelers return to Avalon. Minutes later, Lord Oberon, Queen Titania and the Weird Sisters return to their mystic home. Oberon orders the humans and gargoyles off the island, but Titania convinces him to give the mortals a chance. She reduces his power, and he proceeds to hunt Goliath, Gabriel and Angela across the island.
JUNE 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 10th...
1996
Elisa, who had been working throughout the Avalonian day to help Jade and Turquesa transplant the rain forest's flora, rejoins Goliath, Angela and Bronx on the skiff. They depart Avalon again and Elisa falls asleep en route to their new landing: Easter Island. While Goliath and Angela explore, Elisa is taken into custody by Nokkar, an alien sentinel based on Easter Island, who has mistaken the gargoyles for a hostile alien invasion force. When Elisa tries to explain that the gargoyles are her friends, Nokkar assumes Elisa has been brainwashed. He wipes her mind clean, temporarily giving her amnesia. Then he sets her free.
MAY 26
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 26th...
1996
Broadway and Lex defeat Hyena and take custody of the Amulet, leaving Hyena for the cops. And in Guatemala, the gargoyles and Elisa battle Jackal. At sunrise, Jackal briefly believes he has the upper hand when Obsidiana turns to stone. But in reality, she had merely lost her pendant. Bronx recovers it, and he, Zafiro, Jade and Turquesa dispatch Jackal. As a result, Vogel decides to cancel Cyberbiotics' rain forest operation. After sundown, the travelers depart. But they bring Jade and Turquesa along to transplant samples of the rain forest flora in Avalon. They arrive on the mystic island at dawn and Goliath, Angela and Bronx sleep through the Avalonian day. Elisa introduces Jade and Turquesa to Princess Katharine and the Guardian, and all spend the day scouting Avalon for a good location for the rain forest transplants.
Meg writes...
I know you've said that Demona cast a spell on the Manhattan Clan right before they woke up in the 20th century that allowed them to understand modern English. My question is, how does Angela understand modern English? I would assume that she grew up speaking Old English, as she was raised by Tom/the Magus/Katharine.
Greg responds...
Avalon compensates when it sends people to where they need to be...
(How's that?)
Oh, and by the way, Demona casting a spell is just a possible answer to the original modern English question. Not a definitive answer.
Ylm writes...
1. Why did the Archmage-Plus specifically pick Macbeth to serve him alongside Demona other than just following the directions of his future self?
2. How did the Archmage intend to deal with the returning Oberon and his entourage? Could he have fought Oberon off if he had succeeded in taking Avalon from the gargoyles?
3. Who was the greater threat in the Avalon Three Parter? The Weird Sisters or the Archmage?
Greg responds...
1. Do you think he needed a better reason? (I do, but I may be a touch smarter than he is.)
2. Not sure he knew about Oberon's pending return.
3. Depends on whether you're the Magus or Goliath.
ColdFusion writes...
I realize this might be similar to your "how on earth do all the gargoyles get enough food in Manhattan" question-slash-bane-of-existence, but I'm actually just honestly curious:
What's there to eat on Avalon? Does a lot of fruit grow there? Are there wild beasts in suitable population for the occasional harvest? I would imagine being-always-summer would make agriculture interesting.
Greg responds...
There's food. I'll admit I haven't dedicated a lot of thoughts to the logistics, but there's food.
Raye writes...
Okay, I am going to word this very carefully as I know it treads dangerously close to being an idea rather than a question. I've tried *extremely* hard to keep it within the boundaries of what's allowed. Hopefully you'll see where I'm going with all this. First, some statements:
1. Avalon sends you "where you need to be"
2. The Avalon World Tour resulted in heroes around the globe awakening to their destinies as warriors and protector-figures: the werepanthers in Nigeria, Cuchulain in Ireland, Natsilane in Canada, the Golem in Prague, etc.
3. There are currently several heroes stationed around the world. Such a collective force could come in handy if something...bad were to happen.
So, my very articulatly-worded questions are as follows:
1.a. Is Avalon a conscious entity?
b. If so, did it send Goliath and company to these particular destinations with the specific purpose of activating these heroes?
2. Does Avalon (or alternatively, you) have a master-plan in reawakening these heroes that went beyond protecting people on a global scale?
Okay, I think that should pass the censors. Thanks!
(PS, the comic came through the mail this week and I can't wait for more! From America all the way to Christchurch, New Zealand. Thanks Amazon!)
Greg responds...
1a. I'm not going to answer this beyond what you can gather from the series.
b. It sent them where they NEEDED to be.
2. I have a master plan for all these characters, yes.
Ra writes...
I was wondering, I have been looking around for my answer, and I couldn't find but ONE part of it.
I'm simply wondering if you could post the magic spells that are spoken in Latin here. I'd love to see them. Like when Magus turns the clan into stone, or the spell to part the mists into the Isle of Avalon etc. The only one I could find in this page was the spell to make the Phoenix Gate work.
"Deflagrate muri tempi et intervalia!" Which means, "Burn down the walls of time and space!"
Thank you for your time.
Greg responds...
I can't remember off the top of my head all the spells we used, and I'm not going to go script by script through 65 scripts to find them all...
But here are the two you specified...
Dormiatis dum castellum super nubes ascendant.
and
Vocate venti fortunate,
Ex ricae Oberonis,
Et hic navis frugum regate,
Ad orae Avalonis.
Gipdac writes...
One thing I've always wondered is how long Goliath & Co. were on the World Tour; as I near as I can tell, Guardian first contacted Elisa in early to mid December 1995 and the Avalon Quartet arrived back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996 (Alex's birth date). So,
1. When in 1995 did Guardian arrive in Manhattan, get arrested, meet Elisa and find Goliath?
2a. Was it his first time in New York? 2b. Was it his first time in the U.S.A.?
3. How long did the main events(or 1995 events) of the Avalon series actually take?...It seems like it all happened in one Avalon night (which would be like a week and a half in the real world, right?) from the time Katharine, Guardian and Magus were placing out dinner at sunset to the time Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela left.
4. On what date did Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in Wyvern (or the main events of "Shadows of the past" occur)?
Greg responds...
1. The Guardian arrives in New York on December 27th, 1995, but it is after midnight on the 28th before Tom and Goliath meet at Belvedere.
2ab. I'm not answering this at this time.
3. The Archmage's first attack on the Avalon Clan is on December 22nd, 1995. Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela leave Avalon for the first time on January 1st, 1996.
4. The quartet arrive in Wyvern on January 1st, 1996. The events of "Shadows.." take place across the night of the 1st and 2nd of January, 1996.
Hope that helps.
matt writes...
ok, i really had to research the archives to figure all this out, but that (and the long wait) will be worth it to satisfy my curiosity.
ok, heres some things you've said in the archives (correct any of these if i've gotten them wrong or they have changed):
-1 year in Avalon is 24 years in the real world, so 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world.
-Gargoyle Beasts are mature by age 2 and can mate and lay an egg 10 years after they were hatched.
-besides Boudicca, there is another female and a male beast among the Avalon Clan and they are mates.
-the Avalon Clan hatched in 1078.
1. so, ten years after the Avalon Clan hatched (this would be the year 1318 in the real world) the gargoyle beast pair would have been old enough and in sync with the natural gargoyle cycle to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?
2. if an egg was laid in Avalon in 1318, then ten years later on Avalon in the year 1558 the egg would be in sync with the natural cycle and again and would hatch, is that correct?
3. then ten years later on Avalon, which would be 1798 the gargoyle pair would be in sync again to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?
4 so, just to be clear, when Goliath, Elisa and Bronx arrive on Avalon, not only should there be Boudicca, and the other two beasts, but there should also be the first now mature pup of the beast pair and their second egg, waiting to hatch in 2038. is that correct?
i know the math is kinda crazy, but the way i figured all this out was by saying 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world and just adding from there so:
1078 real world- eggs hatch
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1318 real world- gargoyle beasts mate and lay egg
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1558 real world- egg hatches
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1798 real world- beasts mate again
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
2038 real world- second egg hatches
is all this right? its entirely possible, despite my checking, that i could've goofed up somewhere, so please correct me if i'm wrong on anything.
thanks Greg!
Greg responds...
Ugh. God, you're really going to make me do the math, aren't you? Let's start by saying that I'm not confirming that any of this happened. I'm just striving to address your calculations.
1. The natural gargoyle cycle would dictate that an egg would not be layed until 1328. Eggs are layed on even decades. They hatch on odd decades.
2. An egg layed on Avalon in 1328 would hatch in 1578.
3. Moving forward, the next egg would be lain in in 1828.
4. That egg would be waiting to hatch in 2078. Nevertheless, by your calculations, when Goliath and Elisa first arrived on Avalon, there should indeed be a pup that hatched in 1578 and an egg that was laid in 1828.
Question writes...
What does the moon look like when it is viewed on Avalon? By that I mean does it wax and wane more often when viewed from Avalon because of the 1 hour for 1 day rule? Can you see the waxing and waning of the moon on Avalon in one night because of the time acceleration outside Avalon?
Greg responds...
That's a real good question... one that I haven't given a lick of thought too. (See, I'm happy to admit it when I don't know something.)
What do all of you think?
Anonymous writes...
Could Avalon's magic make mistakes as Goliath suggested in The New Olympians?
Greg responds...
Let's just say it's highly unlikely that Avalon would not send you to a place where you need to be. That doesn't mean you'll like it.
Anonymous writes...
Why isn't there snow on Avalon? I mean they have a dangerous volcano so why no snow?
Greg responds...
It's a summer place -- by decree.
Anonymous writes...
Why did Avalon send Goliath and Co. to Norway?
How did Odin know that they were there?
Greg responds...
1. To return the eye to Odin.
2. He sensed his eye immediately.
Rising Moon Starsword Warrior Daiginga writes...
If you were on Avalon would you see the Southern Cross?
Greg responds...
I haven't given it any thought. What do all of you think?
Tim writes...
Hey, I just remembered something. Doesn't time move slower in Avalon than in the rest of the world? So when Goliath and the gang stay there, wouldn't everyone in Manhatten that they knew be dead?
Greg responds...
Every hour on Avalon equals a day in Manhattan. You can do the math yourself, but the answer is no.
matt writes...
i have a question about the flora on Avalon, actually, a couple questions:
1. the plants on Avalon, like all the forests and stuff, were all those plants brought to Avalon or were they made whe and however the island was created? in short, are those plants real world plants or magic/Avalon plants?
2. if i went to Avalon and planted a tree, could Oberon control that tree as he did with the plants in "Ill met by moonlight"?
3. was the apple orchard that is near Oberon's Palace planted by mortals? if so, when did this occur?
4. in 2002, how are the tropical plants brought from Guatemala doing on Avalon? thriving?
5. does Oberon know of the tropical plants and if so what does he think of them?
thanx, Greg!
Greg responds...
1. Probably some of each, but more of the former.
2. He's very powerful. So, yes.
3. I have every reason to think that apples are native to Avalon.
4. Probably. No reason to think otherwise.
5. He does, yes. He must be okay with the idea or he wouldn't have allowed them in.
Lex Cousin writes...
You can explain how is the reproduction of a gargoyle, you can specify times (hatch)?, it dont know if this contradicts the rules of the forum, but
seems me interesting. For example Angela's birthday. When it is when Demona put the egg or when breaks?
Greg responds...
I'm sorry, but I'm just not clear what you're asking, but I'll do my best.
I've talked about Gargoyle reproduction before; check out the "Gargoyles Biology" Questions answered archive for details. But basically, gargoyles lay a new generation of eggs every twenty years. Those eggs hatch ten years later.
Demona laid the egg containing Angela in the year 988.
However, because time passes differently on Avalon, Angela didn't hatch until 1078.
Wingedbeast writes...
Questions regarding three of the Fair Folk
1. After the Wierd Sisters were banished by a simple parlor trick, they rather easily accepted the ARchmage's suggestion for help. Why that as opposed to just using Avalon's magic to destroy the clan?
Why put that much trust in a single human?
Did they even hedge their bets with attempts of their own to remove the clan?
2. When Odin went through his entire deal of getting his eye back, why didn't he, at one point, attempt identifying himself as Odin before threatening a Gargoyle's protectorate? It seems he'd tried everything but the truth before threatening Elisa... and then the truth at the same time, so what really could it have cost him to identify himself before going to threats?
3. While Oberon may have seen himself as being well in the right for wanting to rid Avalon of the mortals, why didn't he think to identify himself as Oberon: Rightful Lord of Avalon? Seems to be pretty much an obvious thing that he may have missed.
Basing this next question on the idea that Avalon wants the humans and Gargoyle clan to remain (or else why bring the world tour group back to Avalon just in time?). Why did Avalon obey Oberon's commands to attack Goliath, Angela, and Gabrial?
Greg responds...
1a. Well, I could say, "Why not?" But the not-quite-as-short answer had to do with their own banishment from the island by Oberon. By becoming "servants" to the Archmage, it enabled them to embark on the island at his command. Otherwise, how do they attack the Magus, et al, when they're forbidden to set foot on the island. There's also a longer answer and a very long answer, but I'm not getting into those now.
1b. They didn't.
1c. They have three plans in play and removing the clan is only a part of each.
2. Chalk it up, as he did, to recent inexperience at dealing with mortals.
3. I believe he did.
3a. That's a big assumption. The Island didn't bring the travellers back. To return to Avalon, the travellers use a spell. In any case, what the island wants and needs, doesn't change the fact that the island is soaked in magical energy, which Oberon is a master at utilizing.
matt writes...
1. is the leader of the Mayan Clan always or usually one of the Pendant Wearers?
2. does the name of the Pendant Wearer change in relation to sex? like the Sapphire Pendent on a male would be Zafiro, on a female Zafira for instance...
3. have gargoyles been in Guatemala longer than humans?
4. did Oberon ever find out about those tropical plants transplanted to Avalon? if so, what was his reaction?
5. how are those plants doing in 2001 anyway?
Greg responds...
1. Usually, I'd say. Almost always.
2. I'd think so.
3. I'd think so.
4. I'm guessing he's okay with it.
5. As far as I know they're flourishing.
Stacey writes...
Dear Mr Weisman.
Hey there. Hope you had a nice holiday.
I was wondering when it was that you actualy thought up the idea for the garg universe? I mean, did it just pop in your head on day or had it been there for a while?
Also, was there any 'plan' to the story. Was there always going to be a Goliath/Elisa thing? Were the Rookery eggs always going to be on Avelon? Was there some kind of planning towards it?
I know this is probably incredibly sappy but its been killing me ever since I saw that episode...what WAS Goliath going to say to Elisa at the end of 'The Mirror'? Ok, for a start, it wouldn't have been much because he knew that the sun would be up soon. And all the clan were around. But what would he have actualy told her - sworn absolute undying love? Admited that he liked her a bit? I know its a stupid question, but its a lovley scene. Also, what were they like with each other the next night? I guess they both knew what he meant (even if I don't).
Okay, thats all for now. Thank you very much.
Greg responds...
Stacey,
It's been so long since you posted these questions (last October) I'm going to assume that you've already got the answers since all of them are available in the archives.
But just in case, and briefly.
I've been fascinated with Gargoyles since high school at least, but the series was developed by my team at Disney between 1991 and 1994.
Yes, we had a plan. G&E was planned. The eggs showing up on Avalon (or some equivalent) was planned..
I'm not sure that Goliath had the exact words on the tip of his tongue. (This isn't like Titania whispering in Fox's ear.) I think he would have tried to stammer something out about his growing feelings for her. But it would have stopped far short of "declaring his undying love".
Creamy writes...
Are there anymore magical islands besides Avalon?
Does Atlantis exsist in the Gargoyles Universe? If so, would it have made an appearance in future Gargoyles episods?
Greg responds...
All islands are magical.
As for Atlantis, if you came to Gathering '02, you know the answer to that question. Yes, Atlantis existed in the Garg Universe. The Praying Gargoyle was created there.
matt writes...
if a character had the spell could they use anything to get to Avalon, for instance:
1. could you swim to Avalon?
2. could you take a Jet-Ski, Paddle Boat or Ocean Liner to Avalon?
Greg responds...
1. I guess.
2. I suppose.
Chapter XXXVI: "Avalon, Part Three"
Time to Ramble...
This third part of the tryptich, was designed to be a kick-ass battle. Lots of action, lots of excitement. All (or nearly all) the pipe had already been laid out. We had two of our toughest mortal villains (Demona and Macbeth) working with the mysterious and powerful Weird Sisters and the MEGA Archmage Plus, who possessed the power of Gate, Book and Eye. That seemed like some real competition for our good guys, who had wounded to protect.
It was time to go to war.
A few other soldiers:
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
As the main titles were playing and Keith was narrating, my seven-year-old daughter Erin mentioned that Goliath and Darth Vader both do voices for phone companies.
Erin also figured out that Angela and Gabriel were being stalked by Demona, before she actually came on screen.
JALAPEÑA
Goliath says it like a curse word when he realizes that A&G are being followed. That was how I wanted to use it. As I've mentioned before, the art staff eventually threatened a coup if I didn't drop it.
But if I ever get to do Gargoyles 2198, I'm bringing it back. That's a threat, not a promise.
Anyway, Goliath attempts to appeal to Demona and Macbeth's better natures. It starts to work, but it's too late. The Archmage has a good line: "They are my creatures now."
Then Bronx and Boudicca attack, saving our 'goyles. This was hinted at in Part Two. And clarified later when Angela comments on it. But it also was my way of serving notice that Bronx was no longer going to be the puppy-most-left-behind. The World Tour was his coming out party.
Anyway, the Archmage now changes his plan. Not because he doesn't want to take any chances, but really because his sensibilities have been offended. He has another good line: "If they are so eager to die..."
But it's really that balance I was trying to maintain between his newfound ultimate power and his original clichéd origins.
HUNTING HOLLOW HILLS
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King. The Magus says he's been sleeping in his Hollow Hill. More hints as to who the king was. (If the name Avalon wasn't hint enough.)
On the way, Elisa pumps Magus for information like he was in the interrogation room back home. She already guessed that he had a thing for Katharine. She wants the lowdown. It's really not her business. Call it a habit of her profession.
(There's an animation error on my tape, which I hope was corrected for later airings. When the Magus starts to narrate the flashback, both his and Elisa's mouth are moving, mouthing the same lines. Obviously, Elisa's animator misread the X-sheets and thought she was talking instead of the Magus.)
(Of course there's another semi-error which I've tried to explain away in the past. The lighting on the scene where Katharine and Tom play with the baby-gargs Angela, Gabe and Boudicca seems very daylight. I've always claimed that it was just a very bright moonlit night. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.)
This last flashback got my five year old son Benny talking. He asked "How did the gargoyles even get born?" And had to be reminded about the eggs from Part One (which we saw three weeks ago). "Oh, yeah," he said.
Then when we got to the Sleeping King, he compared that to a character that's on his radar: The sleeping MATA NUI from Bionicle.
The Magus uses magic, explaining that "magic is the lifeblood of Avalon." This seemed logical to me. That a practioner like the Magus could train himself to access that ambient magic -- but at a price.
My wife Beth was very impressed with Jeff Bennett's performance here. As a change of pace, Jeff was only playing one character -- as opposed to his usual fifty. But it was a truly heartbreaking performance, I think.
And I have to ask, given the Magus' first appearance in "Awakening, Part One", did you guys ever think that you could or would find that character this appealing, this sympathetic? I think that our ability to allow characters to grow and change was one of the hallmarks of our series. And I had the backbone of his change planned as early as "Awakening, Part Two": (1) his love for Katharine which is unequivocal and (2) his guilt over what he did to the gargoyles, which he never tries to dodge or make excuses for in any way.
The Leap of Faith. It does seem too Indiana Jones now. But obviously it must not have at the time. Either that or we were kidding ourselves. Still, I like Elisa here a lot.
The Platform lowers on cue and Elisa finally names the Sleeping King: "Arthur Pendragon, King of All Britain... You are needed." We wanted to keep it simple. That simple. I also wanted to begin establishing the name Pendragon. Everyone's heard of King Arthur. But you have to have had a bit of exposure to the legends to be familiar with the Pendragon name. I always thought it was cool. And I think that even then I had the notion of using it as the title for a spin-off.
Anyway, we get back to the Palace, and Elisa states a fact that I wonder if anyone had focused on before (regarding Demona and Macbeth): "You've never actually beaten either of them." Goliath agrees: "Simply foiled their plans or fought them to a stand still.
And then Arthur asks: "What's going on?" which I always thought was kind of funny. They're counting on him to help save the day. He doesn't even know the set up.
So while we get him up to speed, we cut to the Archmage who orders the Sisters to "Dispatch the Sleeping King." Erin smiles and says,, "What they don't know..." is that it's too late. But what I found interesting is that Erin actually did trail off. She knew that she didn't need to state what they didn't know. Cool.
DIVIDING THE TROOPS
True to Elisa's hopes (and my interpretation of the character of legend) Arthur in fact does immediately take charge.
He'll go with Elisa, Tom and Gabe to fight Demona & Macbeth.
Katharine, Bronx and Boudicca will guard the wounded 'eggs'. (Katharine has one of her bookend tough mom statements here: "They'll not harm my eggs again!")
Goliath and Angela will attack the Archmage.
And the Magus agrees to take on the Sisters.
Eventually -- after Art figures out that Demona feels Mac's pain and Demona establishes that she and Mac need to put distance between them to minimize the link -- things change a bit and Arthur faces Mac one-on-one, while Kathy, Bronx, Boudicca, Ophelia, Elisa, Tom and Gabe all team up to battle Demona -- who as always, may present the greatest threat of all, even when it's against her own interests.
All this seemed very appropriate to me. I like how the battle divides up. How the opponents match up. And you'll notice at the cliffhanger/commercial break that every one of our battles is going badly for the good guys. Macbeth seems to have the upper hand over Arthur. The Archmage has Goliath down. The Weird Sisters are clearly overpowering the Magus and even Demona is on the verge of wiping out all her opposition at the Palace.
KING ARTHUR PENDRAGON vs. MACBETH
We gave Arthur a mace, because I didn't want anyone to think that some random sword he was carrying might be Excalibur.
When Arthur says, "What manner of magic is this?" it made me wish we had just gone ahead and said "What sorcery is this?" like we usually did.
There's some fairly effective slo-mo animation in here. Slow motion in animation (when called for in scripts) usually makes me nervous. If not done well, it can just look like a poorly-timed, poorly-animated scene. But here it seems to work.
I like how the battle ends. Arthur takes the sword fragment, and for a second, it looks like he's going to skewer Mac. But instead he uses it to pin Mac to a tree. Setting him up for Arthur's punch into camera with his ringed fist. Disney S&P let us do that. ABC S&P didn't allow those kind of fist coming into camera shots on Goliath Chronicles. But I wasn't informed of the change in policy until after "The Journey" was animated.
PRINCESS KATHARINE, OPHELIA, BRONX, BOUDICCA, GABRIEL, THE GUARDIAN & ELISA MAZA vs. DEMONA
Ophelia gets another nice moment here, as even injured, she attempts to stop Demona.
Elisa again takes advantage of the fact that she knows that Demona's hatred for her is so extreme and irrational, that she'll literally drop her weapon for the chance to grapple with Elisa, the chance to tear her apart with her bare hands.
Of course, this is after Elisa demonstrates that she never carries enough ammo. After uselessly shooting at a beach and a hollow suit of armor, she's out of bullets by the time she gets a target of flesh and blood. Of course, we made Elisa a touch dopey in this department for S&P reasons. Elisa, being a NY cop, had to carry a gun. But short of doing an episode about gun violence like "Deadly Force" (which Toon Disney refuses to air these days), we couldn't actually let Elisa shoot anyone with her gun. So we found other uses and excuses.
But ultimately, it's Katharine who brings Demona down, looking quite intentionally like a medieval Ripley, saying the other bookend: "No one threatens my eggs."
THE MAGUS vs. PHOEBE, SELINE & LUNA: THE WEIRD SISTERS
Luna says to the Magus: "There is no future for you." That was a clue from the voice of fate. Anyone pick up on it?
I also like how all the Sisters say together: "You will suffer!" But of course, he's been suffering for decades. What he will soon be is free of all suffering...
I wanted to show here (among other things) that magic itself was neither good nor evil. Magic simply existed at the disposal of those with the power to wield it.
The Magus defeats the sisters and collapses onto Artie's platform. Erin asked quietly: "Did he die?" Benny looked for another way out: "He might have just lost his power."
GOLIATH & ANGELA vs. THE ARCHMAGE
Erin asked what the Archmage was planning for Goliath... and I had to answer something like "a painful death."
Goliath asks what I thought many of you might be asking: why doesn't the Magus just kill him. And David Warner answers as only he could: "Because I'm having too much fun."
We have all this Gate-Jumping. This was an afterthought. Because at one point I had thought of having our guys steal the gate back, I had forgotten to have the Archmage use the gate in the script. So at the board stage, I asked Dennis to put this in. We were very tight for time, but he obliged me. Ideally, I'd have liked to show them briefly in some other times, but I knew we just couldn't afford to design new layouts for two second shots. Even so, who knows where and when they went? Who knows how long they were gone? Sometimes their poses changed. But Goliath is like the Old Man of the Sea. He never lets go. And finally he takes the Eye away.
The Archmage is already in trouble, but how much he doesn't know for a few seconds. Then the power of the Grimorum destroys him from within. A nice creepy companion to him eating the book in Part Two.
And I love David's last line, the forlorn: "All my lovely magic..." Believe it or not, I had to fight a little to get that line in. Just a little. But still.
DEATH OF A HERO
The Magus' death stll moves me. His quiet desire for rest. Katharine's love for him. (Not romantic love, but love nonetheless.) K: "Oh, Magus, what have you done?"
The Magus still concerned that he owes a debt to Goliath and Goliath's forgiveness. The eyes closing and the star shooting overhead.
For S&P reasons, we decided not to make it absolute that he was dead. No one mentions death. Just rest. Sleep. And he is lying on the Sleeping King's platform by his own request.
And many fans, even adult fans, chose to believe he might still come back someday. Hey, more power to 'em, I guess.
But I felt/feel that would cheapen the moment. Cheapen the sacrifice. We sent our heroes into battle. And in battle, their are casualties. Some things are worth fighting for, but if we don't understand costs, then I want people to know that when something isn't worth fighting over, they shouldn't.
FAREWELLS
For various reasons, many of our voice actors in this episode recorded their lines separately. So we recorded each character saying goodbye to everyother character. Not knowing exactly what we would use. We, in my opinion, wound up using too much of these wild goodbyes. It's very awkward sounding to me now.
Gabe & Goliath establish why Gabe and his clan don't join Goliath in Manhattan and why Goliath doesn't bring his clan back to Avalon. Though both clans are born of the old Wyvern Clan, both have found new homes, which they will not abandon.
But Angela has a bit of Demona in her. The iconoclast, she wants more than normal clan life has to offer. She wants to see the world with Goliath. He proudly agrees. He wants one of his children with him. Gabriel and Angela say goodbye. He refers to her here as his rookery sister (not as his "Angel of the Night" or some other equivalent). This was done to make clear that they regarded each other as brother and sister, not mates. I basically wanted to leave her unattached for the Trio. Nevertheless, many fans still thought that they were a couple.
Art goes off on his own to be less conspicuous, and Goliath laughs a borderline Thailog laugh. He also plants pipe for Arthur's eventual stop in Manhattan.
Mac & Demona are freed from the spell, leaving them with no memory since they were first ensorcelled. There's an awkward bit of business here as the gargs who were guarding them move away, just so that Goliath can move in and push the skiff off. Flaw in the boarding that no one caught, I'm afraid.
The Sisters move off, having been forced off-camera to explain most everything.
Bronx & Boudicca part. Now that's a couple.
More pipe: Goliath swears that no one will ever use the eye or the Gate again. Famous last words.
Tom: "Elisa, I thought you understood. Avalon doesn't send you where you want to go! Avalon sends you where you need to be!"
Both Elisa and Erin said: What does that mean? at about the same time.
What did you think when you first heard that? We had officially launched the World Tour, but you didn't know it yet. What were you thinking?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours...?
Chapter XXXV: "Avalon, Part Two"
Time to Ramble...
"PART TWO"
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
THE EGGS
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
BEACH FIGHT
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
"Uh. Yeah."
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
REUNIONS
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
SLEEPING KING
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
LOOSE ENDS
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
WEIRD SISTERS
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
ARCHMAGESES
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
FLAWS
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
But Macbeth?
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
CAPTIONS
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
POWERING UP
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
BATTLE FLASHBACK
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
LAYING PIPE
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
Uh oh.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Memo for "Avalon, Parts Two and Three"
In preparation for my ramblings, here's the memo written to Brynne Chandler Reaves & Lydia C. Marano on the last two parts of their Avalon outline. I've added a few [notes], to indicate some handwritten changes to the document.
WEISMAN 2-2-95
Notes on "Avalon, Parts Two and Three" Outline...
GENERAL
ARCHMAGESES
For purposes of clarity, I'm going to refer to the new and improved Archmage as Archmage+. There will be a number of scenes where the Archmage and the Archmage+ will be appearing together. And a few scenes (including one scene repeated twice) where two Archmage+s will appear together. For those scenes I'll refer to them as 1st Archmage+ and 2nd Archmage+, but they'll look exactly alike.
CLARITY
It goes without saying that any time travel episode is going to be complex. So make an extra effort to be as clear as possible. Both in stage description for the artists, and in dialogue for the audience. I know we resist expository dialogue generally. But as you'll see below, the Archmage+ needs to explain things to the Archmage. So it won't feel artificial.
ACT BREAKS
I'm going to leave that up to you. See how the scripts progress.
BEAT SHEET
"Avalon, Part Two"
1. Pick up right where we left off. Pretty much your beat XX. Tom does need to explain that he still refers to the gargoyles as
"eggs". It's an old habit. He apologizes if it caused confusion, but they have been in Avalon long enough for him to grow old. Of course the eggs hatched some time ago.
Also none of the wounded gargoyles should be at the shore. We'll see them back at the palace.
Also don't forget that Angela has Goliath's coloring, which doesn't escape Elisa's notice. And on your Beat XXB1c. the line should expand to: "Daughters and sons belong to all of us, Elisa. That is the gargoyle way."
2. At Oberon's palace. Pretty much your beat XXI. But keep in mind, that the palace is in crisis mode. Acting as a hospital of sorts, to many wounded gargoyles.
Elisa should notice the tenderness between Tom and Katharine when they are reunited. She should also notice the pain it causes the Magus.
Don't forget to describe the Magus as 72 years old. Also describe Gabriel as looking like a young Othello with Desdemona's coloring.
The fact that the young gargoyles act more human than the trio may be too fine a point to get across. They've been raised by humans, but as a practical matter a lot of what we would think of as human is really just contemporary. And obviously, the trio are much more contemporary than these gargoyles.
You need some reason why Tribeca doesn't already have a name. Maybe, Katharine and Tom had tried not to name any of the gargoyles at first, but it just got too difficult for them with the sentient ones. But they didn't bother to name the Beasts? [We dropped the Tribecca notion eventually, and Tribeca became Boudicca. -GW 5/21/02]
Also, both Gabriel and Tribeca will be present in beat 1. So you may want to introduce them there along with Angela. That frees Beat 2 to reintro Katharine and the Magus. (Magus may be acting as a healer, using natural remedies and polstices.)
When Magus makes his point about Oberon's Children having been absent for nearly 1000 years, he might slip in a subtle reference to the sleeping King. (i.e. Arthur.) Something like: "The island's totally deserted except for the sleeping king." And then before anyone has a chance to ask about the sleeping king, something forces a change of topic.
3. Pretty much your beat XXII. Except that the Magus and Tom should probably be the ones to go into detail. The Magus knew the Archmage the best. He'd recognize that the Archmage has evolved into the Archmage+. If the Magus wasn't positive that the Grimorum cannot be brought onto Avalon, he'd swear that the Archmage+ had it. Plus when the Archmage appeared, he carried the Phoenix Gate and wore the Eye of Odin. Goliath realizes that those items must have been stolen from him.
Tom led the first disastrous attack. He saw Demona (doesn't know her name, but recognized her as Goliath's former love) plus some human in strange armor who used a weapon that fired lightning (Macbeth) and the Weird Sisters who once guarded the island. Again Goliath and Elisa can put two and two together. Macbeth and Demona never escaped the Weird Sisters. The Sisters have been using them all along. When Demona and Macbeth stole Coldstone, it was just a cover to steal the Eye, the Gate and the Grimorum. They must have given the items to the Archmage.
All Tom knows is that the Archmage+ is incredibly powerful. So powerful, he sometimes seemed to be in two places at once.
4. Enemy camp. Obviously, somewhere on the island, but where? In or in front of a cave? Someplace pleasant and relaxing, since the villains have every reason to be confident? I'll call it the GROTTO for easy reference, but anywhere is fine. [In the margin, I wrote: "Vengeance Angle"]
Present are the 3 Weird Sisters, Demona, Macbeth and... TWO Archmage+s. Each carries his own Phoenix Gate. And each wears his own Eye, (maybe imbedded like a third eye in his forehead?). They are dressed in black. Their beards are short. Maybe a metal skullcap (ala Merlin in EXCALIBUR). All very dangerous looking in contrast to the cliché Archmage that we knew.
1st Archmage+ says to 2nd Archmage+: "Shouldn't you be going?"
2nd Archmage+: "I suppose I should." 1st Archmage+: "You know what to do?" 2nd Archmage+: "Of course. I watched you do it." So the 2nd Archmage+ raises his Phoenix Gate and says the Phoenix Gate spell, disappearing into the past (see "Vows").
5. We follow 2nd Archmage+ back to 984 A.D. (He can even say: "First stop: 984 A.D." He can have a lot of attitude.) He arrives just outside the cave and secretly watches the battle between young Goliath, Hudson, Demona and the original Archmage ("Long Way To Morning"). (Again, he can fill us in, by commenting on it wryly to himself.) The Archmage loses the Grimorum and falls into the bottomless fissure, the Archmage+ uses the Phoenix Gate to pop into the fissure. He then uses the gate to transport himself and the Archmage to safety.
6. A hilltop or someplace safe. The Phoenix Gate deposits both the Archmage and the Archmage+ a few feet above the ground. The Archmage+ floats. He says "Freeze". And the Archmage freezes in mid-air. The Archmage+ says "Feathers". And a huge pile of feathers appears right below the Archmage. Archmage+: "Resume". And the Archmage tumbles into the pile of feathers.
We get some sputtering and outrage from the Archmage. And introductions. Archmage+ is his future self. Archmage realizes that means sometime in the future he accomplishes his goal of getting the Eye and the Gate. But what of the Grimorum? Archmage wants Archmage+ to use the Gate to go back and take the Grimorum back from the Gargoyles. Archmage+ says they can't accomplish their goals that way because they didn't accomplish it that way. History cannot be changed. But don't worry. We'll get the Grimorum. He uses the Gate and they both vanish again. [In the margins, by these two paragraphs, I wrote: "You want power, revenge. Allies Soldiers Weapons Base]
7. They reappear in 995 A.D. just in time to see the Magus use the Grimorum to reflect the Weird Sister's spell, turning all three of them into owls. (Archmage+ continues to use one word commands like "Float" and "Invisible" to keep them above water and undetectable. His command of magic is that complete. He can also fill Archmage and audience in on where and when they are, fairly naturally in dialogue.) Archmage recognizes his former apprentice the Magus, who's obviously grown into a potent sorcerer. But the fool just hands over the Grimorum, his source of Power, to Finella. Archmage thinks he understands now. They'll take the Grimorum from Finella. But Archmage+ says no. That's not why they're here. They're here to recruit. [In the margin, I again wrote: "Allies"]
Once all the various skiffs have moved on, the Archmage+ finds the three owls and transforms them back into the Weird Sisters. The Sisters are furious that they were defeated. When Oberon forced all of his "Children" to mingle with the mortals of the real world he had left the guarding of Avalon in their supposedly capable hands. Oberon will be very pissed off that they failed. Archmage+ offers them a chance to get even. It will take time though. The Weird Sisters don't mind. Time is one thing they have plenty of. "Then," says the Archmage+, "I will see you again in twenty-five years." And with that, he uses the gate and vanishes with the Archmage.
8. The year is 1020 A.D. ("City of Stone, Part One") and the Archmages appear via the gate. They meet up with the Weird Sisters. The Archmage+ shows them a vision of the forty year old Demona, the fifteen year old Macbeth and their enemy the HUNTER. [In the margin, I wrote: "Soldiers"] The Archmage+ wants the Weird Sisters to help Demona and Macbeth defeat the Hunter. Weird Sisters remind him that Oberon's Law prevents them from directly intervening in the lives of mortals. Archmage+ knows they are magically prevented from breaking Oberon's Law. But he also knows that they can bend it quite a bit. O.K., fine. But how does helping Demona and Macbeth do anything to help the Sisters and the Archmages achieve their goals? Archmage+ tells them that in order to achieve these goals, they will need powerful warriors, fighters adept at sorcery and weaponry, fighters we can control. These two are the perfect candidates. Guide them, help them, protect them for the next twenty years. The Archmage+ will return then with further instructions. The Weird Sisters agree and depart.
Archmage isn't too happy about this. He recognizes Demona as another of his former apprentices. One who betrayed him by losing the Phoenix Gate "years, uh... decades ago." Why are we helping her? Archmage+ tells him not to worry. This is our revenge. Believe me, we're not doing the gargoyle any favors. And again, he uses the Phoenix Gate to make them both disappear.
9. They reappear in 1040. The Weird Sisters report that they have done their best to aide Demona and Macbeth. The first Hunter is dead. But there is a new one now who's even more dangerous. Archmage+ is very pleased. He knows that Demona and Macbeth will arrive soon. He instructs the Sisters to guide them into making a magical pact that will link their life energy together. We will need them alive and vital centuries from now. We must make them immortal. [In the margin, I again wrote: "Soldiers".]
Sisters and Archmage are confused. Immortal warriors are powerful. How will we control them? Trust me, says Archmage+.
Archmage+ renders him and the Archmage invisible, just in time to see the fifty year old Demona and the 35 year old Macbeth enter. ("City of Stone, Part 3") We see the Weird Sisters link them magically.
Afterwards, the Sisters explain that the job is done. Neither can die, unless one kills the other. Excellent, says the Archmage+. Keep an eye on the two of them. Also keep an eye out for the Grimorum, the Gate and the Eye of Odin. The Weird Sisters are confused. Archmage+ has the Eye and the Gate. Archmage+ laughs. But I didn't have them. Not until you brought them to me. We'll meet again on an island called "Manhattan"... in 955 years.
Archmage: "Nine-HUNDRED and fifty-five years?!!" But before he can protest, the Archmage+ uses the gate to transport them both away.
10. 1995. Manhattan. Weird Sisters as NYC Fashion Models rendezvous at Tavern on the Green, with the Archmages. Archmage+ says: "Disguise". And he and the Archmage, seem to be wearing modern clothes. Over a pleasant candlelit dinner, the Sisters fill us in. All three magical talismans have fallen into the hands of this gargoyle... and an image of Goliath appears in the candlelight. Archmage recognizes Goliath, and can't believe that he survived this far into the future. Archmage+ says, "This isn't the future yet."
Archmage+ asks about Demona and Macbeth. Sisters respond that both are phenomenal fighters, proficient with modern technology and weaponry and half-decent sorcerers to boot. Plus each warrior has his or her own agenda. Demona is determined to wipe out humanity. And Macbeth is equally determined to wipe out Demona, even though he knows it will cost him his own life. They will be very difficult to control. Archmage+: "Yes, yes, but what are they up to now?" [And yet again, I wrote "Soldiers" in the margin.] The Sisters believe that Demona is about to cast a powerful spell to turn everyone in Manhattan into stone. Macbeth will take this opportunity to hunt her down.
Archmage+ is very pleased. He advises the Sisters to help Goliath defeat both Demona and Macbeth. Make your final move after they've fought each other, but before Macbeth has a chance to end their lives. At that point they will be weakened enough for the Sisters to put a sleep spell on them. Then bring them to me. Where? Macbeth's home on this island.
[Optional, if you have space: The sisters exit. Archmage+ asks the Archmage if he'd like to watch the action. Archmage says yes. Archmage+ says: "Somehow I knew that."]
Archmage+ uses Gate and both disappear.
[Optional, if you have space:
11. Invisible Archmages watch a replay of the final scenes from the end of City of Stone, Part Four. The ones where the Weird Sisters help Goliath talk Macbeth out of killing Demona. Put them both to sleep. Tell Goliath that they will take responsibility for them and vanish with them. The Archmages depart as well.]
12. Macbeth's mansion. The Archmages appear as do the Sisters with Macbeth and Demona. The latter two are sound asleep. The Archmage+ whispers to the sleeping warriors. He "suggests" that they work together to steal the Grimorum, the Gate and the Eye from Goliath. The Sisters provide the clock tower location, and suggest that they steal Coldstone as well. That way the theft of the talismans won't be detected immediately. Demona and Macbeth leave together to carry out this plan, completely fogged about how it came to them or why they are working together. [By the margin of both paragraphs 12 & 13, I wrote: "Weapons".]
Archmage asks about Coldstone. Weird Sisters say he is another warrior that might be of use to them. Archmage+ shakes his head. Coldstone wasn't part of the plan, so he can't be now. If his presence aids in the theft of the talismans, fine. But he must be separated from Demona and Macbeth, before the next stage of the plan can be set in motion. They will meet again at the watery door to Avalon.
[Optional:
13. Invisible Archmages watch Demona and Macbeth steal the Eye, the Grimorum and the Gate from the secret hiding place in the clocktower from "High Noon".]
14. The Archmages reappear above misty water. Archmage+ says: "Boat". And a boat magically appears beneath them. They float down to it. While they wait for the sisters, Archmage demands to know the plan. Archmage+ finally fills him in: "Soon the sisters will bring you the talismans. The ultimate magical power that you've always dreamed of. [In the margin, I wrote: "Base".] But once you get that power, what will you do with it?" Archmage is baffled. He hadn't thought that far ahead. He mutters something about conquering Scotland. Archmage+ suggests conquering the world, but warns that it will not be easy. The modern world is a place of science not sorcery. Magic is potent, but so are modern weapons. The Archmage will need a safe place to launch his attacks from. That haven is Avalon. The only problem is Avalon is occupied. Fortunately, Oberon and his children have abandoned it. But there are a few humans and gargoyles living there. Our first job is to kill them. The Archmage is very pleased with his counterpart's plan.
The Sisters join them on the raft, along with entranced Demona, entranced Macbeth and the three talismans. The sisters warn the Archmages that the Gate and the Eye are not a problem, but the Grimorum is a book of human sorcery. It cannot enter Avalon. Archmage+ is unconcerned: "Give him the Eye." Seline gives the Archmage the Eye of Odin. The Archmage puts it on. The Archmage+ explains that the Eye grants power and insight. It makes the wearer a more powerful version of himself. It usually takes weeks to transform an individual, but the Archmage+ has the ability to speed things up. "Change," he says. And the Archmage begins to metamorphose -- painfully -- into another Archmage+.
When the metamorphosis is complete, the 1st Archmage+ tells the 2nd Archmage+ that he now has the power of the world's greatest and, frankly, most evil sorcerer. But he lacks the knowledge. The exhausted 2nd Archmage+ gets the message. He asks Phoebe to give him the Grimorum. He uses his new-found power to swallow it hole. The 1st Archmage+ is very pleased. Now he is one with the magic, and there's no need to worry about bringing the Grimorum to Avalon. Even Luna is impressed. She hands the 2nd Archmage+ the Phoenix Gate, completing his power. 1st Archmage+: Shall we proceed?
[Note: I circled paragraphs 15, 16 and the first paragraph of 17 and wrote: "One Beat" in the margin and "But show it to us." By 15, I also wrote "Base".]
15. The 1st Archmage+ materializes in the palace of Oberon, in front of Katharine, Tom, the Magus. He tells them to "Make your peace, for at sundown, you die." He uses the gate to disappear again.
16. He reappears in the Grotto, joining the 2nd Archmage+, the Sisters, Demona and Macbeth. One of them spots Angela and Gabriel watching them and sneaking away. Demona asks if she should stop them. No, says the 1st Archmage+, they'll be back.
17. Sure enough, Tom the Guardian leads the gargoyles against the villains. It's a disaster. Many gargoyles are wounded. None of them can fight on a level with either Macbeth or Demona. Let alone the futuristic weapons that they bring. The Weird Sisters avoid direct interference, but still manage to use their magic to ensnare their opponents in their environment. And the Archmage+ is everywhere, popping in and out, using the Gate, vanishing. Using magic. He's devastating. (During the fight, play the two Archmage+s so that Tom might say something like "It was like he could be in two places at once." As opposed to Tom realizing that there are two of them.)
Tom is forced to sound retreat.
[I marked the rest of seventeen and 18 and wrote "combine" in the margin.]
Demona and Macbeth want to pursue and finish them off. But the 1st Archmage+ is supremely confident. Why bother? If we wait until Dawn, the gargoyles will all be stone. Only the Guardian, the Princess and the Magus will be left to defend the palace. It's so much easier to sit back and enjoy the cool breeze for a few more hours. [In the margin, I wrote: "Waiting for Goliath. Important. Vengeance. He wants Goliath.]
Luna asks: "What about the sleeping King?" The 2nd Archmage+ is surprised. He had heard the legends of the sleeping king, but didn't know that they were true. Seline assures him the King is on the island, asleep. Phoebe warns that the King's power was once very great. 1st Archmage+: "Then when once we've taken the island, we'll just make sure he never wakes up."
18. Time cut to a few hours later.
1st Archmage+ says to 2nd Archmage+: "Shouldn't you be going?"
2nd Archmage+: "I suppose I should." 1st Archmage+: "You know what to do?" 2nd Archmage+: "Of course. I watched you do it." So the 2nd Archmage+ raises his Phoenix Gate and says the Phoenix Gate spell, disappearing into the past. Obviously, this is an exact repeat of Beat 4, and finally leaves us with only one Archmage+ for the rest of the story. Archmage+ makes some comment about how the other one was getting on his nerves.
19. AND Finally, we return to the present and resume from beat 3 with our heroes in the palace. Tom picks up his story where he left off. After, there disastrous mass attack on the Grotto, they all realized they were in deep shit. Sunrise was only six hours away. They thought about hiding the gargoyles, but realized there was no place on the island where the Weird Sisters couldn't find them. They had to get help. Tom ventured out by skiff to the real world. As he had done once every century. The skiff landed at Wyvern, and Tom was shocked to see that the castle was missing. He went to a local village, where he was told that the castle had been moved to the top of a skyscraper in a place called NEW York. Tom picks up on the word "skyscraper". Is it possible that the castle has risen above the clouds? One villager's seen it in New York. It's definitely above some of the clouds. (You can show this village scene in flashback if you have space or time.) Tom returns to his skiff, returns to Avalon, and launches off again, praying that Avalon will send him to this NEW York. (Hinting that he doesn't have a lot of control.)
Sure enough he found New York and Goliath and brought him and his friends back. But the mission took two days in the real world. That's two hours here on Avalon. There's only four hours left until sunrise.
Tom apologizes to Goliath. He's tried to train the gargoyles to be warriors, but he's self-taught himself. Plus Avalon always seemed so peaceful, etc. Protective instinct must never have developed. Maybe if Goliath led the next attack... But Goliath is sure Tom did his best. Sometimes a direct attack isn't the answer. Sometimes stealth is required. If we can steal the Gate and the Eye back from the Archmage, we may have a chance. Goliath will need someone who knows the island. Gabriel and Angela both volunteer. Fine. Goliath asks the Magus to come as well. His magic might prove useful. The Magus cannot meet Goliath's gaze. He hesitates. Finally, he says that without the Grimorum he has no magic and would be a liability to Goliath. Elisa wants to come, but Goliath asks her to stay behind. If this mission fails, Tom and the others will need her expertise on dealing with Demona and Macbeth. Goliath, Angela and Gabriel depart. After they go, Elisa turns to the Magus and asks: Tell me about the sleeping King.
20. They sneak into the grotto and for a beat it looks like they might succeed in their mission. But no. They are caught. Woops. [In the margin, I wrote: "Arch+ sees them coming."]
END PART TWO
START PART THREE
21. Looks like curtains for our three heroes. Goliath even resorts to making an appeal to Demona and Macbeth. Can't they see they're being used. Does it suit Macbeth's sense of honor to wait 'til dawn to slaughter innocent gargoyles. Demona hates humans, but why would she help the Archmage hurt her own children. It doesn't make sense to Demona and Macbeth. They start to come out of the spell. But the Archmage+ is just amused by Goliath's pleas. With one word: "Obey", Demona and Macbeth are again his to command. Fortunately, rescue comes from another quarter. Bronx and Tribeca. To some extent, the rescue only succeeds because the Archmage+ is complacently amused. He likes watching the little mice run the maze. In a few hours it'll be all over anyway.
22. Goliath and Co. return to the palace. The mission was a failure.
[Note: the following paragraph was crossed out.]
But not a complete failure, says Angela. In the confusion, she got away with the Phoenix Gate. Angela wants to use it to go back in time and stop the Archmage+ before he arrives. Can't be done, explains Goliath. History cannot be changed. He's learned that lesson, painfully. Can they escape to the future? They'd be abandoning Avalon. The situation they arrived in might be even worse. Better to make their stand now. Well could they use it flee the island? This time Gabriel says no. This is his home, the only one he's ever known. He will protect it, not abandon it! Goliath is impressed. The gargoyle way is strong in Gabriel. But Angela's disappointed. Stealing the gate didn't help very much. Goliath assures her, that it helped a lot. They've taken away the Archmage's mobility. And gained some for themselves. The Gate doesn't have to be used for time travel. It can be used just to move instantly from place to place. But how will that help? Goliath isn't sure yet.
Hey, where's Elisa and the Magus?
23. Elisa and the Magus journey to the "Hollow Hill" where sleeps the sleeping King. (It's Merlin who sleeps in the Crystal Cave. At least by my research.) Maybe they have some time to talk. Elisa has noticed that Tom and Katharine are close. The Magus tells her that as the boy Tom became a man, he and the Princess fell in love. (Again, if you have the room and/or the inclination, you can show this in flashback.) Now they are husband and wife. They raised the gargoyles as their own children. Elisa wonders where the Magus fits in. I don't, he says. But his feelings for Katharine are also obvious to Elisa. How could he stand to stay and watch them grow closer? He had to stay. He had done an unforgivable thing when he cast his spell upon the gargoyles. He owed it to Goliath to tend the eggs. His pain is not important.
24. They arrive at the Hollow Hill. They see the sleeping King. He lies on a bed, surrounded by arms and gold and jewels. They move to wake him, but are intercepted by two hollow suits of armor. Elisa empties her revolver into one, but it's pretty useless. Suddenly the Magus casts a rhyming spell. (Rhyming in English, not Latin.) The armor is defeated, though it leaves the Magus drained. Elisa is shocked. She thought the Magus had lost his magic. He had. Centuries ago when he lost the Grimorum. But the island is full of magic. It is everywhere: in the wind, in the water, in the trees and certainly in this hollow hill. His training makes him sensitive to it, but summoning it without study is very hard. It's an unpredictable and often unsuccessful endeavor. He cannot be counted on.
Elisa approaches the sleeping King. For the very first time in this three parter, we hear someone speak his name. Elisa: "Arthur Pendragon. King Arthur. You are needed." And King Arthur awakens. It's that easy.
Suddenly Goliath and Angela appear via the Phoenix Gate. [The phrase 'via the Phoenix Gate' was crossed out.] What did Elisa think she was doing? Elisa realized that Demona and Macbeth are two of the greatest warriors of all time. It's a hard truth, but even Goliath has never actually bested either of them. The best he ever did was foil their plans or fight them to a draw. They needed someone better. They needed the best warrior who ever lived. Arthur clears his throat. Would someone please tell him what's going on? Angela's excited. In a minute, she says, and using the Gate, teleports them all away. ["and using the Gate, teleports them all away." was crossed out.]
[From this point out, stuff in {} is crossed out material.]
25. Back at the Grotto, The Archmage+ {has only just discovered that the gate is missing. He} is furious, and his demeanor does not improve when the Sisters wryly blame his own hybris and complacency. Fine, he says. Then we will attack now.
26. Back at the palace, Arthur's just heard the gist of the situation. He's not thrilled. This isn't what he was supposed to be awakened for. He doesn't have Excalibur. He doesn't have his knights or Merlin... But he looks around the room and sees the faces of those who need him. He will do what he can. Gabriel enters. They're out of time. The villains approach. Arthur will lead Tom, Elisa and Gabriel against Macbeth and Demona. Goliath and Angela will {use the Gate to} face off against the Archmage. Katharine, Bronx and Tribeca (and whatever other healthy N.D. Gargoyles we've shown) will stay with the wounded gargoyles and do their best to protect them. But who will take on the Three Weird Sisters. I will, says the Magus.
27. The battle. O.K. This is going to be a big one. You want to have space for it, cause it's the fight we've been building towards for THIRTY-SIX EPISODES, so we've got to make it worthwhile. (Also we have tons and tons of epiloguing in this one, so we need the audience to feel like they want a good long rest after the mega-battle is done.) You'll do a lot of intercutting between the various fronts. But for clarity here, I'll take them one at a time. (Also feel free to adjust or expand on any of the details... I'm just trying to give a big picture overview.)
ARTHUR, ELISA, GABRIEL, GUARDIAN vs. MACBETH & DEMONA
The Archmage+ has sent his two warriors as an advance force to soften up the enemy. Macbeth is impressed by this new warrior. He asks his name, and when he hears that it's Arthur, we can see that he's momentarily shaken by it. He's an Arthur-buff. A great admirer. Well. He's always wanted to test himself against the best. For his part, Arthur's quick to figure out that when either Macbeth or Demona are hurt, both feel the pain. He instructs his troops to use that to their advantage. Demona realizes that she must put some distance between herself and Macbeth. She'll still feel his pain, but not as severely. She gets past Arthur's force and into the castle. Arthur sends Gabe, Elisa and Tom in after her. He'll handle Macbeth.
ARTHUR VS. MACBETH
Macbeth is quickly deprived of his lightning gun. Both wind up using medieval weapons. It may even come down to hand to hand combat. Finally Arthur wins.
DEMONA vs. KATHARINE, BRONX, TRIBECA
Demona gets into the palace. She is confronted by Bronx and Tribeca, but they don't stop her. She finds her way to Katharine and the wounded gargoyles. We need to see by this time that Demona's bloodlust is so high, that there's no chance of talking her down again. The spell on her has worked her into such a froth that she can't see that what she's doing is against her own interests. She's a brainwashed assassin. Katharine is ready to die for her charges, and it looks like she might have to.
DEMONA vs. GABRIEL, GUARDIAN, ELISA
They arrive just in time, Gabriel and Guardian save Katharine temporarily. But they're no real match for Demona either. She's about to kill them all, when Elisa says wouldn't you rather have me. And there it is. Someone Demona hates so much, that no spell is more powerful. She leaps at Elisa, giving the others time to regroup. Ultimately, Demona is taken down by sheer force of numbers. Maybe Elisa gives the takedown blow.
MAGUS vs. THE WEIRD SISTERS.
They can't believe this old, impotent man is challenging them again. Without his precious Grimorum, no less. But he rises to the occasion. It's a sorcerers battle, so have a lot of fun with it. And the Magus wins by trapping them. Probably in some kind of iron or some kind of chain. (But here's a thought, that only just occurred to me. Should the Magus give his life in this fight, i.e. be mortally wounded during it. Maybe drained beyond any hope of recovery? He would be the one real casualty of the battle. Goliath would of course forgive him on his death bed as the old man passed away, finally at peace, maybe with Katharine's kiss on his lips. I know we planned on sending him off with Arthur, but I can't help wondering if we didn't make this fight to easy on our heroes. Isn't it necessary for them to lose something truly precious, i.e. the life of a friend? I have very mixed feelings, cause I like the character a lot. I could probably be swayed either way. Before you go to script on part three, talk this over with both me and Adrienne [Bello, our S&P executive].)
GOLIATH, ANGELA vs. ARCHMAGE+
Goliath attacks directly. And is really being trounced. The Archmage+ has not forgotten how Goliath defeated him back in "Long Way to Morning". He's really punishing Goliath. But that was part of the plan. Angela uses the gate to {bop in, and} throw the overconfident Archmage+ off balance. {She and} Goliath {toss the gate back and forth between them. They vanish and reappear.} The Archmage+'s magic still is formidable, but the tactic is infuriating him, which makes him sloppy. Finally, Goliath manages to grab the Eye and wrench it off the Archmage+. (Note: As in Eye of the Beholder, this should be damn painful for Goliath.) The Archmage+ immediately metamorphoses back into the old Archmage. But he's not through yet. He's still got all the power of the Grimorum inside him. But without the Eye to contain that power, he has a problem. You see you're not supposed to bring human magic onto Avalon. The Grimorum is burning him up from the inside out. Nothing gory, but he is destroyed in magical flames. It is over.
28. Epilogue time. Goliath realizes that the Eye and the Gate were not meant for mortals to use. He swears never to use either of them again. (He'll break this promise later, but it at least explains why he doesn't immediately use the Gate to take him, Elisa and Bronx back to Manhattan). He and Angela gladly walk back to the palace.
29. It is now only ten minutes until sunrise. Decisions must be made. They ask Goliath if it is safe for the Gargoyles out in the real world. Unfortunately, no. Not really. They invite him to bring the other gargoyles back to Avalon. No. That won't work either. Some of them must continue to live in the real world. Learn to live with humans. It will take time, but if they don't try, the outside world will never be safe for gargoyles again. Given that Goliath is willing to take any gargoyle who wants to leave. From here, you can pretty much pick up back on your outline: BEAT XXXX. (Though obviously if we kill the Magus, Arthur's leaving alone.)
30. Pretty much your Beat XXXXI. Arthur (and the Magus?) leave first. Also we have to deal with Macbeth and Demona. They can still be unconscious. The trapped Weird Sisters are forced to free Demona and Macbeth from the spell. They tell our heroes that neither warrior will remember anything that happened to them since the spell was first cast in City of Stone, Part Four. Somehow, we have to rationalize sending them off unconscious on a skiff of their own. Good luck. Finally our 4 travelers leave for Manhattan, poling out into the misty water. But Tom knows from experience that "Avalon does not take you where you want to go. Avalon takes you where you need to be."
That's it. Call me with any problems or questions, and in any case let's talk about the Magus.
Chapter XXXIV: "Avalon, Part One"
There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...
"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.
THE RECAP
...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.
Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.
"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.
THE TITLE
The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.
Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?
OPENING
Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.
Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.
My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."
OLD FRIENDS
Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?
Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)
Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.
Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.
Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.
That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.
BELVEDERE CASTLE
Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.
Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.
Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.
I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*
Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]
Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"
This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.
FLASHBACK
Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.
Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)
VOICES
There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)
But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.
Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)
Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.
They're amazing.
SOAP OPERA
Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."
A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.
Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.
Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.
Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."
(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)
Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)
After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.
THE MURDER
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.
Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.
Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)
Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"
That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.
We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)
We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?
Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.
Michaelmas. I just like that word.
Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.
THE ESCAPE
The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!
I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.
Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.
Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.
Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?
They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.
And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.
Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.
AVALON
Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.
Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.
Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?
Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
While I'm thinking of it....
Behold the following exchange (then skip to the bottom):
Received from pc-17.di.uoa.gr on Monday, September 17, 2001 04:52:03 AM
Aris Katsaris writes...
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
Greg responds...
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
recorded on 03-04-02
With all this in mind...
I know I've established -- both here and in my own head (particularly with regards to G2198) that eggs hatch on the Spring Equinox.
But does anyone remember whether (and where) I've established what month the eggs are laid in?
I can't recall if this has come up yet.
Anyone know? And would this solve my problems at all?
Aris Katsaris writes...
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
-------------
Greg responds...
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
matt writes...
can a female gargoyle born, raised and living her life on Avalon generally have more than three eggs in her lifetime if she wanted to?
Greg responds...
Potentially, I think.
Anonymous writes...
1.Who made the tools that Natsilane used to defeat Raven in Heritage? Why was it so easy for Natsilane to defeat Raven?
2.Where did Raven go after Natsilane defeated him?
Greg responds...
1. His ancestors.
1a. Raven wasn't prepped for any opposition.
2. Spain for a bit. Alaska. Eventually to Avalon.
Anonymous writes...
Where did Banshee go after Cuchullain beat her?
Greg responds...
She stayed in Ireland, while she regrouped -- but keeping well out of Rory's way. Eventually she was dragged to Avalon.
Anonymous writes...
1.How did the leader of the Avalon clan get to QFL? I mean Avalon takes where you're needed not where you want to go.
2.Can gargoyles on Avalon lay more eggs than the ones in the mortal world?
3.Why is there a gargoyle in Avalon named Azrael? I mean it's the name of the Muslim angel of death hardly Christian.
Greg responds...
1. I'm not going to get into logistics at this time. But figure he landed where ever he needed to be, and assuming that wasn't Queen Florence, he took a bus.
2. Potentially.
3. You try naming thirty-six kids in one sitting.
Anonymous writes...
You said that in Castle Carbonek time passes differently so my question is how differently? A day in our world is an hour in Carbonek?
Greg responds...
It's not an equation as with Avalon.
Artemis writes...
If Avalon sent you on a journey, and you were needed back there, would you automatically be taken back there, or would you still have to recite the spell?
Greg responds...
Huh?
To get to Avalon you need to recite the spell.
Avalon can only send you on one quest at a time.
Or did I not understand the question?
JEB writes...
If Avalon only dropped Goliath and company off in Manhattan to deal with Oberon, then why did their skiff sink? Wouldn't it have remained if it still had more tasks for them?
Thanks!
Greg responds...
It didn't. But it also didn't simply drop them off to let them come home. Sometimes things can have more than one purpose.
Demoness writes...
~Avalon's Magic"
We see in the episode "Avalon Pt3" the Magus uses Avalon's magic to transform the Iron Knights into iron chains. We also know that the Fae can tap into Avalon's magic too and we also know that Avalon's magic can effect iron. So this is my question.
1. Can the Fae use Avalon's magic to effect iron too like the Magus can?
2. If the answer is no. Why can't they?
Greg responds...
1. No.
2. The Magus was a mortal conduit for the magic. It's one of the reasons that what he did killed him. He was adapting the island's magic to something it was not supposed to do.
Lord Sloth writes...
The Wierd Sissies said that the Eye of Oden was fordged on Avalon. How is that possible if it came from Oden's head?
Greg responds...
Odin's from Avalon.
Sapphire writes...
Is Avalon in another dimension?
Greg responds...
Define your terms.
Greg "Xanatos" Bishansky writes...
If the Space-Spawn did destroy Earth, would Avalon be destroyed with it?
Greg responds...
Yes.
matt writes...
1. before retrieving Goliath and company in "Avalon" had Tom ever met any of the other gargoyle clans around the world in his Avalon adventures? if not, was he aware that other gargoyle clans had survived around the world?
2. he said that he returned to the Mortal World every 100 years to see if Goliath and the clan had been awakened. did he just keep trying until Avalon sent him to Wyvern or what?
3. when he arrived at New York in "Avalon" did he know that Castle Wyvern and the clan had been moved there?
4. did any of the Avalon Clan gargs ever go with Tom on his journies? did the Magus or Katherine ever go with him?
5. before the Archmage assaulted Avalon and after Tom and the eggs and everyone first arrived did anyone ever come to Avalon using the spell or any other way?
Greg responds...
1. Not answering this at this time.
2. No. He usually learned what he needed to learn in one or two attempts.
3. Yes.
4. No.
5. Not answering this at this time.
Gipdac writes...
Do the members of the Avalon clan celebrate their hatch-days the same way we celebrate our birthdays? I know hatch-days aren't important to Gargoyles, but humans raised them, so.
Greg responds...
They all hatched together over a two or three day period. It's a community celebration.
Sloth writes...
Did Goliath, elisa, Angela & Bronx return to Avolon in between every world tour episode? If so was it just to go there and quickly leave, or did they have more adventures there? And when they leave do they just sail into the mist and land where ever Avolon wants?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Sometimes it was quick and leave. Sometimes they stayed longer. Sometimes they arrived at sunrise and HAD to stay.
Yes.
Please, do me a favor and number your questions in the future.
Sloth writes...
How is life for Katherne, Tom and their "eggs" now that they live in the smae castle with the world's supply of fey? I would think it might be very hectic, dangerus and "sub-ter-fuge-ic" with all the tricksters, evil banshees and gods. Do you?
Greg responds...
A famous curse goes something like: "May you live in interesting times."
Such is life in Oberon's palace.
Sloth writes...
The show states that gargoyles can withstand very cold tempretures, but how about hot? I'm asking cause Goliath and co fly close to the Magma in two volcanos and seems fine. BTW, can volcanos be like that and not be active?
Greg responds...
On Avalon they can. I'm not an expert otherwise. But I also never said they were NOT active.
Gargoyles raised in Scotland don't do quite as well in the heat. But they are generally pretty tough cookies. They can take most anything for brief periods of time.
matt writes...
given that Mary (Tom's mother) will do some time-dancing with Brooklyn and Tom has had a long life on Avalon, have they or will they ever be reunited?
Greg responds...
That would be telling.
Rob(the Sloth)Irwin writes...
Fine, I guess I'll keep writing while everything is fresh in my mind. The questions are fading quickly so I'll get right to it.
1.Did Arther Pendragon have any adventures in the time before Avolon sent him to London in the skiff? It dosn't seem to fit that Goliath had been all around the world by the time it took Arther to get from Avolon to London.
2.If #1's answer is yes, will you tell me what thoese adventures were?
Thanks Greg.
Greg responds...
1. Yes, very astute. Arthur had one untold adventure after leaving Avalon. He then returned to Avalon. Considered staying there. Then decided to leave again and landed in London.
2. Yeah, right.
Phil writes...
Here's a math question based on the list of characters' ages you posted a while back:
The Wyvern eggs were scheduled to hatch in 998, but they were taken to Avalon in 996. The two years remaining would stretch into 48 years, so the eggs should hatch around 1044.
Angela and the Avalon clan are listed as being 917 years old in 1995, meaning they hatched in 1078. That's a 34 year difference.
Even if their hatching was naturally delayed to coincide with the outside world, it seems that 1058 would be the closest year.
Could you explain where my logic or my math is off? I don't doubt what you've said; I just don't understand it. Thanks.
Greg responds...
Good question.
Here's where you got off. The eggs were taken to Avalon on September 28th, 995. Not 996.
Anonymous writes...
Is the Magus actually dead? Couldn't the magic in the hollow cave heal him like it healed King Arthur?
Greg responds...
Dead as far as I'm concerned. (And that ain't what healed Arthur.)
Todd Jensen writes...
You indicated in one of your recent responses that Shangri-La came to mind as the site of a possible, but unmade, Avalon World Tour adventure. What I'm curious about is whether it'd be possible to include Shangri-La in "Gargoyles". I believe that it was invented by James Hilton in his novel "Lost Horizon", written and published in the 1930's, which could make it a little too recent to be quite in the public domain as yet, though I'm not certain on that.
Greg responds...
Yeah, I'm not certain either. Shangri-La was mentioned in passing in the comic book story that I wrote for Marvel, which was never published. That was allowed, because it was a "diminimous" reference.
Before I actually set an adventure there, I'd need to make sure I was legally allowed to. If in fact, Shangri-La was created by Hilton and wasn't in the public domain, I'd probably shift to something like Kun-Lun. Tell the same kind of story there.
You know, on a related note, we did check Brigadoon (which was mentioned in a similar diminimous fashion in the Gargoyles/Captain Atom/Justice League Europe parody story I wrote, which WAS published by DC Comics) way back when, as a kind of proto-Avalon. We found out that wasn't legendary, but a creation of the modern non-public domain musical. So I went with my initial plan and used Avalon.
matt writes...
you said that Katherine, Tom and the Magus imitated gargoyle customs, which the Magus had knowledge of, when raising the eggs. what did they do to raise a hatchling in gargoyle fashion?
Greg responds...
As much as they could and knew how to.
matt writes...
when the Magus died on the bed of the Sleeping King, did they just leave him there? i can't imagine they would unless there was some sort of magic there that would keep the Magus from decomposing, which would be kinda gross. so if they left him there, will he decompose or not?
Greg responds...
It seemed a fitting resting place. And crypts aren't that unusual. But I'm guessing they sealed off the Hill.
J.R. writes...
What are all the names of the gargoyles on avalon.
Greg responds...
Pass.
matt writes...
what are some of the other names of gargoyles on Avalon? i'd imagine most biblical angel names were used, but Opheila, Angela, and Boibekka all have other types of names, what were some of these?, if you know any
Greg responds...
Boudicca, not Boibekka.
I've answered this. I believe that Katharine did attempt at least to use all the standard Angelic names...
Gabriel, Michael, Azrael, Raphael, Uriel, etc.
Plus some variations like Angela.
But they had more gargs than angels.
So we get Ophelia, etc.
Anyway, I don't plan on tying my hand by naming a bunch of characters I haven't yet explored.
matt writes...
1. will Tom and/or Katherine live to see Gabriel, Opheila, and Boudikka and the other Avalon gargoyle's eggs hatch?
2. will the Avalon clan continue the naming of the hatchlings?
3. will they have a rookery or will they raise their eggs and hatchling's individually as humans do?
oh, and i was thinking about the Earth rythmn and its effects on gargs reproductive cycles on Avalon and i thought that maybe Avalon produces its own rythmn that may mimic or duplicate the rythmn of the Earth so that Opheila and the rest still lay eggs and hatch as if they were in the real world. afterall, from what evidence we've seen in the series and that you've given us, Avalon doesn't seem to be a place you can locate on Earth, just a theory...
Greg responds...
1. Not gonna answer that.
2. Yes.
3. Rookery. They know that much.
The cycles tie together. The math is excruciating for me, but I've managed it. I think.
Jim R. writes...
matt,
I thought the skiff was blown up at first, but i remembered that only happened in the "Future Tense" episode, which I suppose wasn't real to Goliath. But no one could accidently go to Avalon, because one would first have to recite the Latin to reach it. I got you on this one buddy. :)
Greg responds...
Yup.
matt writes...
in "The Gathering" when Goliath and co. arrived in New York what happened to the Avalon Skiff? did it sink as Arthur's skiff had done in London? if the just left the skiff in the lake or river could anyone have gotten in it and accidently gone to Avalon?
Greg responds...
It sank. But even if it hadn't, you need to know the incantation to get to Avalon.
Ray Kremer writes...
All the rambles on City of Stone recently brought back some memories. While that season was airing I was in High school, and the English Class that semester was British Literature. Beowulf, Canterbury Tales, and of course Shakespere. We did the Scottish play not too long after CoS aired and when I was reading the book the voice of John Rhys-Davies always found its way into my head.
The classroom also had a big poster of the complete family tree of the royalty of the British Isles. You can imagine how much fun it was to look back to 11th century Scotland and find the names of Gillecomgain, Gruoch, and Luoch right there with MacBeth, Duncan, and Malcom Cannmore.
Then when we got to Arthurian Legend I asked the teacher what the significance of Avalon was besides being Arthur's final resting place, half expecting to hear it was the traditional home of the fairy kingdom. (Never could be too sure what was real, what you were making up, and what was some of both.)
Greg responds...
It was (in many works) the traditional home of the fairy kingdom. I wasn't making that up.
matt writes...
by "Ill met by Midnight" are Gabriel and Opheila allready chosen mates or do they decide that later? seeing as how Tom and Katherine are human and raised the gargs as brothers and sisters in a human fashion what is T and K's reaction to the coupling of the eggs? if i am wrong in how they were raised than correct me, please, but neither Tom nor Katherine was very knowledgable in garg customs, were they? did they raise the gargs in a garg way as best they could or just as they would human children and garg instincts took over for the rest?
Greg responds...
Moonlight, not midnight.
You're mostly wrong. I think Tom and Katharine and the Magus realized that these eggs represented an entire generation, not just a bunch of siblings. Relationships developed. Some fraternal, others romantic. The humans attempted to mimic gargoyle customs, which the Magus had some information on.
And Gabe and Ophelia were certainly romantically involved by Ill Met.
(The Guppi) writes...
A couple more questions...
1) Is Avalon 'round' or 'flat'? That is, would a Foucault pendulum (an experiment demonstrating that the Earth rotates on an axis) work there? If so, would the direction in which it turns always be the same? (Normally, clockwise = N. Hemisphere, and counterclockwise = S. Hemisphere. Useful to know if you're totally lost, and would rather _not_ figure out where you are by observing the Coriolis effect on a cyclone firsthand.)
2) Is it possible to get outside radio reception (which works by bouncing signals off the ionosphere) on the island? What about stuff from offplanet?
Greg responds...
1. Uh... Huh?
2. Largely, no.
(The Guppi) writes...
A cartload of thanks to Aris Katsaris for adding his wonderful clarification to my earlier question. At least I got part of it answered -- it's nice to think all that boring mist wouldn't get in the way of any Avalon lovebirds' stargazing sessions. :) If you'd really like me to be more specific, well...
1) Is the celestial view (I'm not an astronomy student, so I don't know if I describe it properly) from Avalon the 'same' as what can be seen from a certain point on elsewhere on Earth? 1b) Is this point fixed? 1c) Would the view appear to 'change' 24 times as quickly than from the other Earth point?
2) Does the moon appear to change phase (that is, a terran eclipse) from Avalon? 2b) If yes, would this also be 24x?
3) How is Avalon connected to the rest of space? Are various natural phenomena (for example, comets) visible from Outside also visible on Avalon? 3b) Would the same be true of less natural ones, such as Sputnik? 3b) Does Avalon get especially colorful sunsets or 'green flash' (both of which need a bunch of atmospheric dust to occur)?
...Y'know, that sort of thing. :P
Greg responds...
I'm no astronomer either.
Aris Katsaris writes...
(The Guppi) asked:
---What does the night sky look like, from Avalon?
You replied:
---I don't understand the question. Like the night sky.
I think that (The Guppi) meant what about the constellations? From normal earth one can find out the latitude (or is it longitude?) of one's position if one's learned how. Even if one hasn't learned one could probably easily understand if he's in the Northern or the Southern hemisphere.
So do the constellations of Avalon correspond to those of "our" Earth? What does the night sky look like from Avalon? :-)
Greg responds...
Like the night sky from a unique point of view.
matt writes...
1. i assume that Coldstone went to the Himalayas after "High Noon" because of the isolation, correct?
2. how did he know there were no gargoyles in the area, or did he just have to look around for an isolated spot?
3. did he meet any other garg clans on his way to the Himalayas?
4. what was he hoping to accomplish in this isolation?
5. how did he get from New York to Tibet?
6. how did Xanatos find him in "Possesions"?
7. Iago doesn't have a kid on Avalon, right?
8. in "Possesions" i guess there wasn't really time to explore the Coldtrio's opinions on the eggs surviving so what do they think?
9. would Gabriel's parentage ever be revealed to him as was Angela's? would he care? what would Coldstone and Coldfire think if they found out?
Greg responds...
1. Largely.
2. It seemed isolated, and largely proved isolated.
3. No.
4. To win an internal battle.
5. He flew.
6. Coldstone gives off a signal which X can track.
7. I never said that.
8. I'm not entirely sure they're aware of it.
9. It's something to explore. But the mere fact that Coldstone and Coldfire exist and the mere fact that the "eggs" survived -- is much more significant than biological parentage.
matt writes...
i have a question about gargoyle customs. you've said that Opheila is Gabriel's second in command and for a time, Demona was Goliath's second, is it common among gargs to choose their mate as second? if so, isn't that unfair to the other gargs hoping to become second, or am i thinking too much like a human?
Greg responds...
You're generally thinking too much like a human.
The bigger issue over time is age. A second should be in a position to be groomed to take over for his leader, either in case of an emergency (as when Brooklyn took over for Goliath during the World Tour) or in the case of succession, as when the older Hudson stepped down in favor of the younger Goliath.
Had things gone differently at Wyvern, eventually either Demona would have stepped down to allow a new second to be chosen from the younger generation (most likely Brooklyn) OR Goliath would have stepped aside to allow Demona to lead and chose a new younger Second (again, most likely Brooklyn).
It's largely a meritocracy otherwise. Hudson chose Goliath as his second based on a myriad of positive qualities but primarily integrity, intelligence, natural leadership abilities and a genuine ferocity in battle.
Goliath in turn selected Demona for the same qualities. *He was just mistaken about the integrity.*
As for Avalon, the situation is a bit different, as all the gargs there are of the same generation. Originally Gabriel was chosen as leader and one of his many rookery-siblings Angela was chosen as his second. When Angela left, Gabriel did select his mate as his second, at least for the time being. But you can bet Ophelia was qualified -- look how she performed even when wounded in Avalon Part Three -- or he would not have chosen her. Does nepotism play a part. Possibly. But I'd think that the qualities necessary would have to be even more obvious to avoid charges of nepotism.
In London, Una is the leader of the clan. Her second, whom we have not yet met, is of a younger generation and generally runs things at their more rural (or at least suburban) estate.
In Japan, Kai was the leader. Yama, of a younger generation, was his second. After Yama's banishment, Yama's mate Sora was probably chosen as Second (though don't hold me to that). Again Sora's chosen for her attributes and (relative) youth. Someday -- short of a catastrophe taking place -- she will lead the clan in Kai's place.
In Guatemala, Zafiro is the leader. His second is not his mate Obsidiana, but Turquesa, Jade's mate. They are all of the same generation, but they are also the only gargs alive down there at the moment. (Not counting the eggs.)
matt writes...
did the Magus (or anyone) conduct a marriage ceremony of some sort for Katherine and Tom, or did they just start living a married life? when were they married, before or after the eggs hatched?
Greg responds...
It's more of a common law thing that evolved over time both before and after the hatching. Though they might have held some kind of private moment between the two of them.
matt writes...
how does the World Tour thing work? do the travelers return to Avalon after every stop in the real world, or only sometimes, or only when the spell is cast? who would cast this spell among Goliath and co. and Jade and Tequesa?
Greg responds...
They returned in between every "real world" adventure. Though sometimes only long enough to start out again.
Either Goliath or Angela would tend to cast the spell. Either Jade or Turquesa could do it, once they learned how.
(The Guppi) writes...
What does the night sky look like, from Avalon?
Greg responds...
I don't understand the question. Like the night sky.
(The Guppi) writes...
Is it possible to swim from the coast of Avalon to ... elsewhere?
Greg responds...
Sure.
matt writes...
is there a clan leader of the Avalon clan? is it Gabriel or do they consider Goliath to be their clan leader?
Greg responds...
Gabriel is the leader.
Kam-Ra Cru writes...
Do the trio have any blood-siblings on Avalon>
Greg responds...
Potentially.
Oberon writes...
Does Avalon have any connection to the third race (a magic link or something) or did they just clame it as there own.
Greg responds...
They're related.
Faieq writes...
You said that one of the reasons that Princess Katherine and Tom the Guardian didn't have any children is because there weren't very many fertility specialists on Avalon. Therefore either Princess Katherine or Tom were incapable of having children.
I always thought that with having to take care of 36 gargoyles and gargoyle beasts, who aged at half their rate, they would have had their hands full.
Anyway, even though I thought that having 36 hatchlings was better than having 36 hatchlings and 1-? kids, I'm just wondering, who had the problem Katherine or Tom?
Greg responds...
Don't know.
Of course, they did have their hands full, but I have to say I doubt they were using (or wanted to use) birth control. So the lack of biological children was most likely the result of one or both of them having a medical issue.
Aris Katsaris writes...
More cycles stuff... It seems that the gargoyles in Avalon have a mating season every ten months of their time. (sorry if I am making a wrong assumption here)
a) Have any (or many) eggs been laid and awaiting hatching in Avalon?
b) What do you feel this will do for the generations? Avalon alone from all the clans in the world will have eggs in the rookery set to hatch at different times, and gargoyles that are only ten months apart in age... There will probably be few "rookery siblings" with the earlier definition of the term...
c) How often would a female be able to conceive (Avalon-time)?
And finally...
d) How does Princess Katherine feel about the frequency of the mating seasons? :-)
Greg responds...
You are making an incorrect assumption. It's every twenty years for them too. Or at least close to that. But they also attune to the closest outside world cycle.
The cycle is both internal and external. It is theirs. But tied to the earth's bio-rhythms.
All things are true. Which makes the math very damn complicated.
Skylar writes...
I didn´t get the thing with the ships.
1. Are the ships, that are used for the Avalon travels, from any special or magic kind, or would travel to Avalon and start a magic journey when leaving be able also with any other kind of ship?
2. Where did the magus and the other humans get the ships, when they started to Avalon with the eggs?
Greg responds...
Do you mean the skiffs?
1. The skiff isn't the source of the travel magic, which doesn't mean the skiffs are magic-free.
2. From the dock.
Todd Jensen writes...
A question about "Ill Met By Moonlight". At the end of this episode, Oberon appoints the Avalon clan his "honor guard". Is this going to turn out to be a largely ceremonial function with little real work? I can't help but suspect this, in view of the fact that anything capable of seriously threatening Oberon, a fellow capable of swelling up to giant size, animating stone figures, and ordering the earth to swallow up intruders, (and I will confess that the only thing that I can think of in the Gargoyles Universe that could really endanger him at present is Queen Mab) would be able to easily wipe out a whole clan of gargoyles without much effort. (I do have the suspicion that Oberon's appointing the gargoyles to that position was more a matter of "practical politics" - giving them a definite role in Avalonian society - than a matter of "providing for defense", myself).
Greg responds...
Generally, an "honor guard" is by definition ceremonial. If not literal definition, then certainly by common practice.
So I agree. But it doesn't hurt to have loyal warriors handy the next time someone shows up with an iron bell.
Vashkoda writes...
I don't know why I'm obsessed with these skiffs. =P
1) The group originally got the skiffs from the dock near King Kenneth's castle. Presumably, they belonged to local fishermen. a) Did they indeed belong to humans, or did they have some other origin? b) Was it common practice among humans to carve this face onto their boats? c) Was this a local tradition, or did many people world-wide know about the significance of this face?
2) You previously agreed with someone that the skiff's ability to "send people where they need to be" was a property of Avalon itself. You also told me that the Gate being "lost" was similar to how Goliath and company were lost during the World Tour--also seemingly traveling at random, in both cases, people ended up "where they need to be". a) So is the Gate's ability to find these points in time and space where Brook needs to be, a property of Avalon itself, as it is for the skiffs? b) Does that mean that Avalon has some kind of control over the Gate?
Greg responds...
1a. Not saying.
b. That would be telling.
c. The full significance may never be known.
2. The Gate doesn't need Avalon, but the theory is the same.
Faieq writes...
Let me rephrase:
1) If the time travels slower on Avalon than in the real world, then does the food that they consume take longer to digest, or does it digest at the same speed as it would in the real world?
Greg responds...
Time (and I suppose digestion) seems to pass normally on Avalon. It's just that as an hour passes there, a day has passed on the rest of the planet. Does that help?
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg. You said that the Phoenix Gate wasn't forged, but in "Avalon, Part 2", Selene says, "The Eye and the Gate were forged on the Island". So...
1) Are the Sisters unaware or misinformed about how the Gate came to exist?
2) Who was responsible for originally causing the Gate to exist?
You also said that "When free, the gate travels about on its own, as Brooklyn learns to his chagrin". Angela also said "without a mind to direct to gate, it will be forever lost in time". So...
3) When the gate is "travel[ing] about on its own", is that what you meant by "lost in time"? "Lost", as in "having no sense of direction and randomly arriving at destinations", or is it lost as in "lost to the world", meaning no one would have access to it anymore? Because I believe you also said that the Gate wasn't moving randomly, and that there was often a purpose for Brooklyn going where he did. So if Brooklyn isn't controlling the Gate, and the Gate is moving on its own, and a mind normally needs to guide the Gate, is it the Gate itself that's deciding its destinations? And does that mean that the Gate has a mind? And does that mean that the gate is alive in some way? (sorry for grouping the questions like this--but they all lead into one another).
Greg responds...
1. This is merely a problem of semantics.
2. The timestream.
3. "Lost" is a point-of-view thing. One might say that Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx were lost during the World Tour...
Vashkoda writes...
skiff questions:
I noticed that there was a face on the Sisters' barge that resembled the face on the skiffs.
1a) Are they of the same person/being? b) Is this person/being a Child of Oberon? c) What is this person/being's name? d) Is he (if it's a "he") still alive at the time of "The Journey"? e) Does he have any associations with sailing or water?
2a) The Princess and company originally left in three skiffs, but Mary and Finella took one back to the mainland, leaving two at Avalon. So how was it that there were three skiffs at the end of "Avalon, Part 3"? (one for the gang, one for Macbeth/Demona, and one for Arthur) b) Why would they need the extra skiff at Avalon? c) Did the Princess or Magus or any of the "eggs" ever accompany Tom to the outside world?
3) Since the incantation to reach Avalon is referred to as a "spell", and the Magus orginally read it from the Grimorum (which may have acted as the necessary conduit), how is it that Tom could invoke the spell, not being a wizard and having no conduit? (in addition, the Magus worries about whether "Constantine or his *sorcerers* get a hold of [the spell]", implying that his sorcerors might be needed to cast it.) For that matter, how will Jade and Turquesa be able to cast it?
Greg responds...
1a. Yes.
b. Maybe.
c. I'm not saying.
d. Perhaps. (That's a new one, right?) ;)
e. Obvioulsy.
2a. You can never have too many skiffs.
b. There is no b.
c. No.
3. Magus was able to teach it to Tom. Angela also knew it. She could teach it to Jade.
Faieq writes...
1. Do the gargoyles and the humans on Avalon know about both the World Wars (in 1996), seeing as they have no comunication with the outside world except for when Tom goes on his search for Goliath every 100 years? We saw the bulk of his search in 1995, but the century before that it would be way before the first World War. (Obliviously the Children of Oberon know about the first World War).
2. Probably a silly question, but seeing as one day on Avalon is equal to 24 days in the real world, do the humans and gargoyles on Avalon eat 3 meals a day (24 days in the real world) or do they eat 72 meals a day (24 days in the real world).
Greg responds...
1. By now, they've probably learned a bit. But no, not when he arrived to search for Goliath.
2. I don't know if it's silly or not, but I don't understand the question.
Adam writes...
You said there is no naturally occurring iron on Avalon. Wouldn't this create a health problem for the humans living there? I don't know about the gargoyles, but Princess Katherine, Tom and the Magus have blood that requires iron to transport oxygen. Normally this iron comes from the food we eat; but if there's no iron on Avalon, then no plants that grow there would have iron in them and no animals that live there (and eat the iron-free plants) would contain iron. So you would think that the humans who have lived there for decades would be anemic, or sick, or something. How did they get around this problem? Sorcery? Or did they have to bring their food in from outside of Avalon? Did Tom have to occasionally hop on a skiff and go grocery shopping?
Greg responds...
O.K. Wow. You caught me. I was thinking of iron in terms of big deposits of metal. Not in terms of the basic iron molecule.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Does the Avalon clan have a leader among the gargoyles? A Second? Or are they all equally under the leadership of their rookery parents: The Princess, the Guardian and the (now late) Magus?
If there's a leader and/or a second, how were they chosen? By the three humans, or by the gargoyle clan itself?
Is Gabriel leader? Or was it just his personality that caused him to take major part in both crises?
Greg responds...
Gabriel is the leader. Angela was his second. Now Ophelia is.
The clan chose the leader. He chose his second.
Tom, Katharine and the Magus, always encouraged their independence.
Scott Iskow writes...
1. Do Brooklyn and/or Lexington have any biological siblings on Avalon? Perhaps other blood relatives?
2. Does anyone in the Garg universe know or find out that Broadway and Hudson are related?
I know that these are questions that wouldn't matter to a gargoyle, but I was curious. :)
Greg responds...
1. Probably.
2. A non-issue. So no. I don't think so. (Unless I find some dramatic purpose for it that overwhelms what I think is the coolness of no one knowing OR caring.)
Alex "Cyclonus" Bishansky writes...
This may sound like a silly question, but can you reach Avalon from a bath tub with the spell the Magus used in "Avalon pat 1"... I told you it was silly. I guess my brother is rubbing off on me.
Greg responds...
Yes, theoretically.
Anonymous writes...
Where did Ophelia get her name? Tom, Katharine and the Magus all went to Avalon way way before Shakespeare was around (if I'm not mistaken), so I guess "Hamlet" is ruled out?
Greg responds...
Well, Tom has taken trips to the real world once a century. So "Hamlet" isn't ruled out actually.
Matthais writes...
Hello! First of all, I thought I should say that I really love Gargoyles, I write role playing games and a lot of Fae concepts comes from the show. So, without further ado:
At the end of "Ill Met By Moonlight", Oberon says something like "From now on you and your clan shall be imune to all our powers" to Goliath. You have mentioned before that Oberon uses the royal "we", or "us", or "our", but says "I" if it would be confusing otherwise. This is certainly a confusing instance. I hope by "our" powers he dosn't mean the powers of all Fae? I couldn't remember if any of the clan are affected by Fae powers after Ill Met. (Unless "Future Tense" was after it?)
Greg responds...
Just his. And of course he "bends" THAT rule all the time too.
Vashkoda writes...
One last question. Is the relationship that the three original "Coldstone spirits" have with their new robotic bodies similar to the relationship (or magical ties, or whatever you want to call it) that Hakon had with the axe? Are they similarly bound to the living world only through their bodies? And does this connection now rely more on the magic that summoned them into Coldstone's body (which was done with human magic) or on the spell that transfered them to their new bodies (which was done with Alex's fairy magic). Where I'm going with this, as you might guess, has to do with the Coldtrio's access to Avalon, where human magic is forbidden. I must stop here before I say too much, but if you can, please discuss this possible complication.
Greg responds...
The answer to your first question is yes.
The answer to the last is subject to interpretation. Which means anything is possible -- as long as the loophole exists.
Ambrosia writes...
A few Q's about Avalon:
From my understanding, Avalon is not a place you could point to on a map, correct? My question is about communication. 1. Would it be possible to phone/e-mail/talk in any way to someone on Avalon from, say, New York? One problem is obviously that phone lines couldn't physically run all the way there, but what about satellites? Or is that ridiculous?
Another possibility: 2. could you communicate magically like mirror-to-mirror or some such thing?
Here's another problem that presents itself: Time passes at one twenty-fourth speed on the magical island... 3. if you *could* talk to someone in real time, would his voice sound slower? and would yours sound fast?
Thank you for your time!
Greg responds...
Ø. Correct.
1. Largely ridiculous.
2. Certainly. We've seen it done.
2a. Depends on the method employed.
Charles writes...
Okay, I have a question regarding being rookery siblings and lifemates. Gargoyles consider all the other gargoyles that hatch with them to be siblings. From what I understand, from among this group a gargoyle will also be expected to take a lifemate. Now, you can proably see where i'm heading. This kind of relationship sometimes strikes me as almost incestual, b/c a gargoyle will, for all intents and purposes, develop romantic and sexual feelings for what used to be his/her sister/brother. The problem is obviouslly avoided in cases such as Broadway and Angela, who didn't have much contact with each other, or between different geneartions of rookery litters, which I guess also applies to Broadway and Angela. What got me to thinking about this is when you denied Angela and Gabriel having feelings for each other b/c they were bros. and sisters and in the same sentence said Gabriel was mated wtih Ophelia, who I understood as also being a Rookery sibling. I guess you could say that i'm thinking too much like a human, which, I confess, is a big problem of mine.
8-)
Anyway, if you would give your interpretation and response to these thoughts of mine, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks so much to you and your fellow workers for creating such a wonderful show.
Greg responds...
Mostly, as you said, you're thinking too much like a human. None of a generations rookery siblings are biologically sister and brother. So the kind of incest taboo that you refer to wouldn't exist between them.
Look, think of it this way. Say you grew up in an orphanage with thirty plus other kids. All the same age. Both sexes. None related to each other. You were all raised together. When you're young and basically immature enough for sex to be a non-factor, all these kids would be like siblings to you. You'd get along better with some than others, but they'd be your de facto brothers and sisters. But as the years pass in this orphanage, as you all start to hit puberty, some of you would start to look at others in a different light. Not everyone. Some of you would maintain a close fraternal relationship. Others you were close to might grow distant. Some you didn't like might evolve into friends. Not brothers and sisters, but friends. And still others would become objects of attraction. But no matter what, you'd still be the thirty plus kids who grew up together in that orphanage. Whatever else happens, you'd always have that with all of them.
Gabriel and Angela don't still treat each other as brother and sister because it was some kind of mandatory result of them being rookery siblings. It's simply how their relationship developed, whereas Gabriel and Ophelia obviously had the hots for each other. Even though at a young age, they were raised in that "orphanage" on Avalon together.
Does that help, human?
Nemi writes...
On to the serious stuff! All have to do with Iron and the Avalon
The Human body, Earth, and all other natural organisims can cleanse themselves.
Avalon is natural, if magical.
We know that Avalon's magic can effect Iron, it's just the fey in that respect.
But if Iron was dumped into Avalon and the fey couldn't remove it, could Avalon itself process the iron out of it's system?
Would Avalon remove it in the first place since suposedly it does no harm?
How long would this take?
Greg responds...
If Iron was dumped there?
First answer my question. What if it wasn't?
fae Rae writes...
Are Coldstone and Coldfire Gabriel's parents? Gabe looks like Coldstone and I think he has Coldfire's weird wings. Was that intended?
Greg responds...
Coldstone and Coldfire ARE Gabriels biological parents. They are also two of his rookery parents. Two of only five that survive into this century.
And yes, that's all intentional.
Pamber writes...
have jade and turquesa returned to guatemala from avalon yet? did they go on adventures wherever avalon sent them?
Greg responds...
Yes. Yes.
Zuppstein Luvir Manoruvver writes...
Hiyah, I'm Zupp! I love Gargoyles sooooo much, and they simply kick. They're way to good for Toon Disney!
My Q's are on relationships in GARGOYLES:
1) Why did you give Angela to Broadway? I don't wanna like offend you or something, but she'd be so much better as Brooklyn's. They look a heck of a lot better together than Angela and Broadway.
2) In teh avalon episodes, especially when Angela leaves for the first time, she and Gabriel were always together. Gabriel at least acted like he was in love with her. But you said that Gabriel was going with Ophelia. Was there ever anything with Angela and Gabriel?
3. The Goliath/Elisa relationship rocks! I love how you got rid of a gap between 2 species with it. But will they ever have a future together?
Thanx!
Greg responds...
1. I didn't "give" Angela to Broadway. As she herself said, she's not a prize to be won by OR gifted to anyone. As for a direct answer to your question, sorry, but I'm tired of answering this one. If you'd bothered to check the Angela or the Trio archive to this site you would have seen that this question has been asked and answered many times. I don't want to offend YOU, but if you think she'd be better off with Brooklyn, then I think you weren't paying very close attention.
2. Again, no. Check the archives for a more complete answer. But Angela and Gabriel had a much more fraternal relationship. Think of them as fraternal twin siblings. They were very close. But it was brother/sister affection -- never romance.
3. Yes.
(Zupp, I'm sorry if this response seems harsh. But I've got a ton of questions to go through, and it's a little tough when the questioner doesn't bother to check the specific archive for his question first.)
Abigail Thorne writes...
How did Goliath and the others learn that Demona and Macbeth can only be killed if one kills the other? Demona told Brooklyn in "Temptation" how she had been dealing with humans for hundreds of years, and Macbeth told Goliath in "Enter Macbeth" how he had named Demona, which she herself said in "Awakening Part 5" happened long ago. So I get how they could figure out both were immortal, but how exactly did they figure out the terms of the spell?
And another thing--if they knew that only Macbeth could kill Demona and vice versa, how come they thought Macbeth died in the crash in "The Price" and Demona died in the fire in "The Reckoning'?
Greg responds...
From the Weird Sisters, after they were captured -- but before they were released -- in "Avalon, Part Three".
"The Price" took place before "Avalon". And they never said she was dead in "The Reckoning". Goliath simply acknowledged that he wasn't sure. I mean how many questions have I had to answer here about the rules of the whole Macbeth/Demona thing. If you all have some doubts about how that spell works, don't you think Goliath and Angela might also.
Nyrtleka writes...
In the AskGreg Archive, you wrote: "I expect Angela, Sora, Ophelia, Boudicca, Obsidiana, and Turquesa to all lay eggs in 2008."
As I see it, Angela is Broadway's mate, Sora is (presumably) Kai's mate, Ophelia is Gabriel's mate, Obsidiana is Zafiro's mate, and Turquesa is Jade's mate. But what about Boudicca? Did she and Bronx mate? It seems logical, since (other than Fu-Dog) there are no other gargoyle beasts in the series. Is this true?
Greg responds...
Sora is Yama's mate. And Boudicca has mated and probably will again mate with Bronx.
Patrick Toman writes...
Hi, Greg.
I guess this is sort of a combination ramble and question, growing from a discussion that got started in the TGS comment room.
First, the ramble that explains the origin of my question. I recently saw part of a documentary on PBS about birds (David Attenburough's "Life of Birds" series) and a segment was shown about endangered species of birds being raised by humans from eggs to be released into the wild later. Part of it showed how whooping crane chicks raised completely by humans were being taught how to fly. It was really rather comical... the people were running about flapping their arms, but in the end by mimicing the gestures the young cranes caught on and were able to get into the air for their first flights.
So now to the question... would Katharine, Tom, and the Magus have applied anything similar to help the Avalon hatchlings learn how to glide, or did they simply leave the young gargoyles to their own devices and instincts?
And also related to this... how old must a gargoyle be before it's ready to begin gliding? Does it vary from individual to individual, or does a rookery all mature at about the same rate?
Greg responds...
1. Both, I think. If for no other reason than it would be fun to show in flashback someday.
2. I bet it varies a bit. Just as walking and talking, etc. varies among human children. Even between siblings.
Vashkoda writes...
1) Without stating my obvious suspicion lest it be interpreted as a new idea, who will Bronx's mate be? 2) What gender is/are the gargoyle beast/s on Avalon other than Boudicca? 3) Do you have any specific plans for that big red beast we saw in "Bushido", or was it just thrown in by the artists? 4) When the Guatamalan clan's eggs hatch, will there be any beasts? 5) Are all gargoyle beasts land-bound?
Greg responds...
1. Boudicca, of course.
2. Male and female.
3. We get to everything eventually.
4. Yes.
5. Pretty much. (If I get your meaning.)
Warrioress writes...
Did you have any children planned for Gabriel and Ophelia? If so, what are their names?
Greg responds...
Yes. I haven't named them yet.
Chris writes...
1)Do Goliath and Demona have any other children besides Angela? And if so, do you mind if I ask who?
2)Since there's no chance of Goliath and Demona ever getting back together, will they ever be friends again, or at least not at each other's throats?
Thanks for your time.
Greg responds...
1. Biological children? No. Rookery children? Yes. The entire Avalon clan, including Gabriel and Ophelia.
2. They will, on occasion, be allies again.
Faieq Ali writes...
In Huter's moon part three, Demona was going to cast a spell which would wipe out all life except gargoyles. But wouldn't she kill herself because, she would have killed Macbeth and she would have perished as well or would Macbeth be the only human alive? Would Demona's disease or plague have reached the shores of Avalon and killed tom and the Princess?
Greg responds...
Both these points are debatable. I've answered the first one before. (Check the archives for a fuller answer.) It would depend on her mindset. It's possible her survival would have kept Macbeth alive.
I think it's unlikely that it would have hit Avalon.
Faieq Ali writes...
On Avalon, would they have differant seasons, or would it be the same weather throughout the year?
Greg responds...
If they have seasons, they are extremely mild. Endless summer, unless Oberon decrees otherwise.
Alex Wittenberg writes...
Two questions inspired by the Avalon World Tour and "The Gathering"
1. What is the nature of Avalon that it sends poele where they need to be? It is alive or sentient or just an agent of kismet? And why is the island endowed with these powers? (OK, that's really three questions, but one answer, I suppose)
2. We don't see Goliath, et al, actually return to New York. What happened to the skiff? Did it sink like Arthur's skiff did? And was there a scene perhaps showing them returning that was left on the cutting room floor?
Greg responds...
1. One answer: Yes.
2. No scene on the cutting room floor. We had JUST shown a very similar scene in "Future Tense". Basically, we felt it would have played the same way minus the "Planet of the Apes" shock value of seeing the Statue of Liberty half-destroyed. So we chose NOT to show their arrival, not to show a LESS dramatic version of what we had just depicted one episode previous. Instead, we decided to give the PoV to Hudson, Cagney and the Trio. See their surprise. Get a cliff-hanger out of it. You understand. As for the skiff, yes it sunk, as Arthur's had. Again, something we had shown before.
Aaron writes...
To supplement Todd's Boudicca info. Boudicca is the one who had swords mounted on the wheel hubs of her chariot to cut roman soldiers off at the knees. Oddly, Margret Thatcher had a mood that her aids referred to as her Boudicca mode. My tenth grade history teacher wanted to name his daughter after her, but his wife objected.
Greg responds...
Can't say I blame her.
p;xl writes...
You ask for comments, and boy, do people give them to you. I think you'll be shackled in this Ask Greg piece for the rest of your life, or if by some miracle... <which won't come cause Disney corps are stupid and inherently greedy> the shows ressurected.
Anycase.... I was going through my very fractured gargoyle collection. <I had started taping the episodes off the WB, but the show was cancelled, le sigh, and never got key episodes like "The Mirror" which I so adore, so I only have the crappy USA versions and a couple of uncuts>. Anyways... I saw a handfull of episodes. I'd forgotten how powerful some scenes were.
The first episodes I popped in and saw. Avalon 1-3. Avalon 1 was nice, flashback, filler episode. And then came Avalon 2, with David Warner <who for Star Trek fans voiced a cardassian in an episode where Picard was captured, the "how many lights" big brother deal ep>. His interaction with anyone is great, but with himself?! Pure genius. But even yet... this probably didn't prepare anyone for Avalon 3. This was truly a pivotal episode. In it we see the typical fights, Archmage, Macbeth/Demona. But the Magus. Wow. My congrats whoever did that... The Magus. How you expanded in on his character to let everyone know *who* he was. His feelings, regrets, hardships, guilt. And then the impossible battle he fought... you stated that Puck would have a hard time taking on the Weird Sisters. But he did it, a single sorceror, without the strength to weild the magic, took them on anyways. And in his last ounce of strength, cast a spell sealing the battle. Just must applaud whoever wrote that, whether you or anyone. And the Death scene, I'm not a cryer, but I swear I nearly shed tears. Goosebumps..
The Price came next. Another very key episode. It shows how much Goliath cares for his former leader, and the loyalty of Owen. Xanatos really pissed me off at the end of that episode, how he casually shrugged off the loyalty bit.
Well I'm gonna end my little episode opinions, but its fun to talk about them and such. With such a *huge* audience. If Gore ever put a counter on this page, I'd laugh to see what its little ticker would be. You get at least 15 questions a day I'd think.
Thanks for the show.
Greg responds...
I'd hardly call AVALON I, filler. Anyway....
As for Avalon III, I think Lydia wrote the episode. I came up with the basic story idea, and Lydia, Brynne and I worked out the plot together.
As for "The Price", you don't need to be quite so pissed at Xanatos. He knew Owen was Puck.
As for how many questions I get... I'm not sure. But February's going on forever.
Todd Jensen writes...
Incidentally, you mentioned during your October posts that you weren't too familiar with the original Boudicca, and I thought that I'd fill you in on her a bit.
Boudicca was the Queen of the Iceni (an ancient British tribe in what is now Norfolk) and wife to King Prasutagus in the early days of Roman Britain. When Prasutagus died, he left part of his lands and wealth to Rome, but the Romans greedily decided to help themselves to a lot more than he'd left them. When the widowed Boudicca protested, they flogged her and raped her daughters. In anger, Boudicca sought revenge by rallying the Britons (both the Iceni, and the neighboring tribes) against the Romans, and sacked three cities (London, St. Albans, and Colchester), ruthlessly slaughtering everyone that she could find living in them, in a war of rebellion between A.D. 60 and 61. The Romans finally defeated her army in the end, however, and Boudicca poisoned herself.
(She does remind me a bit of Demona, on the general level, in fact. Certainly the same basic concept was there of furious retaliation upon one's persecutors on a level just as savage as the original wrong itself, if not worse).
Greg responds...
Reminds me of Tamara in TITUS.
I wonder if Katharine, Tom and the Magus were thinking of that story when they named their Boudicca, or if it was just the notion of a female warrior that got them to choose the name?
Michael Norton writes...
You have stated that newly hatched gargoyles need to be nursed. How did Katherine, Magus, and Tom manage to handle that when the eggs hatched on Avalon?
Greg responds...
Good question. Somehow Avalon provided.
Chapter XI: "Long Way To Morning"
"Long Way To Morning" This was my title, based on an idea I'd had from way early in the development of the series. It was always obvious to me that the fact that the gargs turned to vulnerable stone at sunrise, gave the series a built-in ticking clock that added tension. But given the gargoyles' healing factor (to borrow a Wolverine term) it occured to me early on that there might come a time when sunrise couldn't come fast enough. That was the origin of this episode and the title. (I think I may have even mentioned the scenario in the Series' Writers' Bible.)
The other obvious purpose of the episode was to give Hudson a showcase episode to equal the Trio tryptich. As I've mentioned before, Gargoyles was originally developed as a comic series, and one of the funny little gargoyles in that show was "Ralph", a very domestic couch potato Gargoyle who loved to stay at home and watch T.V. Hudson developed out of Ralph, but he spent much of the first few episodes "Guarding the castle" (or the clock tower). We'd given him some great action in AWAKENING. But we still felt a major need to UN-RALPH him.
I wanted to deal with his age as realistically as possible. To have him doubt himself, maybe even be aware of his limitations, but then have him prove to himself that he still had something to contribute. I think we basically succeed in that here.
But this ep afforded us other opportunities as well. Opportunities to explore Wyvern backstory in our parallel flashback story:
--We find out definitively that Hudson WAS the leader of the clan and that Goliath was his second. We also get to see the baton get passed.
--We learn how Hudson was blinded in one eye.
--We meet Prince Malcolm and get a sense of how Princess Katharine became the bitch she was at the start of "Awakening". I think this was very important in paving the way for her role in the "Avalon" tryptich. By the end of "Awakening", she's remorseful and has seen the error of her ways, but it doesn't change how badly she acted. But this episode reveals how and why her antipathy toward Gargoyles was created. It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it helps to explain it enough so that we can buy her as a heroine when we next see her. Malcolm doesn't come off as well. I wanted to present how easily casual thoughtless words could be hurtful, and even lead to tragic consequences. My daughter Erin (age 5 1/2) had seen this episode at least once before. But this time, that aspect of Malcolm's inadvertent damage and Katharine's mistaken blame really grabbed her attention. The injustice of it really troubled her. Which is exactly the response I was looking for. (My kids are so cool. She also noticed Hudson's eye getting injured, and commented on how smart Hudson was to jump off into the waterfall.)
--I love the subtle changes that Jeff, Keith and Marina made in their voices when playing the young Magus, Goliath and Demona. It's interesting to see Demona's progression in hindsight from "Vows" to "Long Way" to "Awakening, Part One" to "City of Stone" to the present day. She really is a fascinating character, if I do say so myself. Here, you see her ambition. But no villainy. Of course, it made for a nice counterpoint with her vicious murderous tendencies in the present day story.
--Throughout production of this episode, I had to keep pointing out to the artists, etc., that the flashbacks all had a point of view, i.e. Hudson's. That Demona and Goliath's "private conversations" could NOT be as private as they thought. Hudson had to know what they were saying about him. Both because it further eroded his confidence in both the past and present (the true demon he had to overcome) and because if he didn't hear those conversations it would be cheating to include them in HIS dreams and flashbacks.
--We also intro'd the ARCHMAGE. A one-shot villain if I ever saw one, except that David Warner was so amazing, I knew I had to bring the character back. When he falls into the chasm, you can just here the Phoenix Gate exploding open down there. (Of course, to some people that sounded like him hitting bottom. Their mistake.)
Continuity:
Brooklyn still has it in for D. Broadway is now Ultra-Protective of Elisa. Hudson has superior tracking skills in the past and the present.
And Demona has clearly focused her hatred on Elisa. (Who, by the way, loses her second gun of the series.) It was important for these early episodes that we fool Demona into thinking that Elisa was dead. Otherwise, how else do we explain why she doesn't just kill her.
Demona at the end, uses her cannon as a club. This was designed to be ambiguous. Did Hudson's sword damage the weapon? Or was Demona just so furious that she wanted the satisfaction of cudgeling the old guy to death? Yeah, it was designed to be ambiguous, but no one ever EVER thought that the gun was damaged. They all assumed Demona just lost it. Which is probably true.
Speaking of that Waterfall thing, that image was important retro-pipe for Hunter's Moon, Part Three. (More on that in 54 chapters.)
Animation-wise, I just wish Demona hadn't come off as such a lousy shot.
I love Hudson and Goliath's last exchange. Goliath assures Hudson that he still has "Years of fighting left". Hudson, glad to be of use, is still less than thrilled at the prospect. It's a great wry beat, but it was also important to me to point out that no rational person would wish to fight like that forever. The gargs, including Hudson, fight the good fight because they have to, because it is their duty, part of their natural protective instincts. But none of them WANT to fight.
As usual, I'd like to encourage responses to this episode here at ASK GREG, particularly how you responded to viewing this for the first time.
Tana writes...
Greg,
I was just reading some of your responses, and came across one response which made me crack up:
"I think Angela was a virgin even at the time of "The Journey". (Broadway too for that matter.) Not so sure about Ophelia. "
I don't know how many other fans have read Hamlet, or even seen it performed (personally I think reading should be done before viewing). But as it's one of my favorite plays, I found the comment about Ophelia absolutely marvelous. Now I don't read fanfiction, nor do I really write it (I am working on one story as more of a roast towards Stephen Sobatka and Wyrmwolf); but I tell you that one little comment does get the ideas flowing. Like who is our young "hamlet"??
I've always enjoyed all of the Shakespearian refrences, and this little one about Ophelia's purity has definately made a good day out of a bad week. Thnx!
Greg responds...
Uh, Ophelia's mate is Gabriel. Haven't I mentioned that?
Michael Norton writes...
Dear Greg,
1)How would Tom's mother react to his relationship with the Princess?
2)Have you determined exactly why Tom and Katherine never had biological children of thier own?
Greg responds...
1. I think she'd be happy for him, and not a little impressed.
2. Not a lot of fertility specialists on Avalon.
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg! Ditto what Jenna just said. I'm going to try to insert a question in here, tho'. Did the third race create Avalon, or did Avalon create the third race? If this question is hard to answer, could you tell me which appeared first? Thanks!
Greg responds...
It's not quite that cut and dry... One didn't create the other.
Aris Katsaris writes...
What's the general feeling among the Avalon Gargoyles concerning Oberon and his children's coming to the island? I'd expect there'd be quite a bit of resentment, especially given Magus' death at the hands of the Sisters...
Greg responds...
I think that there's much uneasyness both ways. But I also think the Children like having a few mortals around. And the clan may simply be glad that they have both a roll (i.e. honor guard, i.e. protection) and the support of Oberon.
I tried, in that little scene in GATHERING PART ONE between Oberon and Katharine to indicate that a pleasant detante had been reached.
Aris Katsaris writes...
I believe you've said that Gabriel will learn he's Coldstone and Coldfire's son (and I think vice-versa as well). To what extent will he *care* about this? As much as Angela cared about her own parentage? Less so? Will he be completely uninterested, considering only the Princess/Guardian/Magus to be his real parents?
Greg responds...
I think he'd care more than, say Broadway. Probably not as much as Angela. The difference is that Coldstone and Coldfire wouldn't care at all. That is, they'd be thrilled that all their children survived. To them, Angela is as much a daughter as Gabriel is a son. They were too distracted to deal with that in Possessions. But if I had been able to get back to that....
Todd Jensen writes...
This question's also a Norse mythology one. In the cosmology of the Gargoyles Universe, where do you see Asgard fitting in, since the Aesir are part of it? Do you see it as on Avalon, or as a "home away from Avalon" for Odin and the other Norse gods?
Greg responds...
Home away from home.
Michael Norton writes...
How are the two Gargoyles and the vegetation from Guatemala faring on Avalon?
Greg responds...
I imagine the vegetation is fairing well. But Jade and Turquesa are no longer on Avalon. They were needed back on Guatemala, so I think they left Avalon A.S.A.P. Of course, we all know that Avalon sends you where you need to be. So I'm sure they had a few adventures of their own. But I imagine their back in Guatemala by now.
lisa writes...
HI GREG!
you said that when you wrote avalon part one it was to long so some of the scenes were taken out. what were those scenes about?
Greg responds...
First off, I didn't write Avalon, Part One. Lydia Marano did.
I'm sure it was too long. (Most of our scripts were.) But I don't have it with me at this moment, and I don't remember anything in particular that was cut. Probably there were a few little trims here and there. No major scene cuts.
Avalon, Part Two had WAY more cuts.
AWAKENING, PART THREE
Watched this with the family half an hour ago...
More random observations...
RE: Our supporting cast...
Who knew that Brendan & Margot would wind up being so important? Credit Marina Sirtis, for making Margot so gloriously bitchy.
And then there's Vinnie's first appearance on that motorcycle. Of course, no one knew Vinnie existed back then, which is thoroughly appropriate to his character.
And credit Keith David with breathing real life into Morgan the cop. Morgan didn't even have a name then. He was just a place holder, someone for Elisa to respond to. But Keith made me interested in him.
Little things still bug me. Xanatos' floating ponytail in the scene where he and Elisa first meet.
In the Kitchen, the Freezer door was supposed to have one of those easy to open latches on the inside. The irony being that Broadway could easily extricate himself, if he just knew how to operate the latch (or even what it was). Something a kid could do, assuming the kid was born in the 20th century. But BW has to bust down the door.
In the original script and the recording of that script, it's Brooklyn who says "So many wonders..." and it's Broadway who says "Goliath said not to let anybody see us." But in those early days, lots of people in L.A. and in Tokyo kept confusing their names (and Bronx's) so the animation came back as you see it. And it was easier to re-record the voices then to reanimate. (Or am I getting all this totally backwards? I just saw the show again half an hour ago, and already, I'm confused.)
(CAVEAT: In all these little things, I'll probably be pointing out animation errors here and there. But please understand, I think most of the animation we got, particularly from Walt Disney TV Animation - Japan, was brilliant. I think those guys did a great job and don't get enough credit. But anecdotes generally come out of when things go wrong, not when they go right, so it may seem like I'm talking about mistakes more often than not. Sorry, in advance to Roy Sato or anyone else who might take offense.)
When Elisa is first being checked out by the Trio, there was a scene in the original animation where Brooklyn seems inordinantly interested in her behind. We had to call a retake, cuz the guy was practically drooling. I wonder if that's where I got the idea that Brooklyn would fall for anyone in a skirt (or with a tail).
Also, after Goliath saves Elisa from falling off the building we have a point of view shot from her. It begins at Goliath's feet and pans up to his face, as she takes him in. In the original animation, the pan started at his head and panned down. That seemed less effective, so we had our editors reverse the pan, without calling for a retake.
At the end of Act Two, the door slides open revealing Demona in silhouette, clearly plotting something with Xanatos. That always really bugged me. I didn't want to give away that she was alive in this episode. I didn't want to know who Xanatos was talking to. How did you guys react to this? Did that spill everything? Did any of you not know that Demona was alive? Did any of you, by this point, not know that she and Xanatos were the bad guys?
Elisa says something like "This is where Dracula shows up." when she's walking through the corridors of the castle. If you take that literally (and you might as well), then you gotta figure that someday, Dracula will be roaming that very hallway.
Elisa loses the first in her series of guns, when Goliath crushes it near the end of Act One.
Goliath tells a joke: "And please, don't fall off the building this time." Goliath tells a joke. Can you believe it? It wasn't bad either. We should have let him tell jokes more often.
Elisa's surprise that Goliath can talk is indicative of what I thought a 20th (or 21st) century initial response to the gargs would be. That's why Goliath Chronicles' trial episode bugged me so much. I don't think humans would take for granted sentience. And I think most humans, those less open than Elisa, wouldn't even buy talking as enough evidence that the gargs weren't just beasts. (Cf. Margot Yale.)
Goliath is a pretty begruding hero. That's somewhat unique for cartoons. Elisa asks if there are more gargs, and Goliath responds: "Barely." He cuts her very little slack. But already you can see their relationship developing. I still think Hudson's expression after Goliath sweeps Elisa up into his arms is just priceless.
In that same scene, Hudson gets named for the river. I love that scene, as I loved the scene where Tom, Brook and Lex are talking about names. Of course, the desire not to name most of the gargoyles until we got to NYC '94, was mostly pragmatic. It allowed us to use those fun, cool NY names for most of the characters. But once we came up with the rationale for it, and once I managed to explain it to everyone, I really fell in love with the concept. Hudson's lament, here, that humans don't think something is real until they've put there stamp on it, is, to me at least, so damn true. And Elisa's response is so feeble and circular. "Things need names." Pathetic. But I'm no different. <SIGH> I'm such a human. But I aspire to gargoylosity. Anyway, after Hudson points to the river, and Elisa basically tricks him into taking that name, she used to have a line, as I may have mentioned before, where she said (under her breath) "Good thing we weren't facing Queens" -- implication being that Hudson nearly ended up being called Queen, I guess. It was always funny, but S&P didn't care for it, and I couldn't really defend it. So out it went. We tried another version, where she just says, "Good thing we weren't facing East." But it didn't play. So out it went too.
The thing that struck me most, however, was the almost thorough lack of action in this episode. After all that Viking stuff in Part One, and Vikings and a full act of commandos in Part Two, Part Three is a mood and character piece. Sure Elisa falls off a building, but that was a problem easily solved. Until the commandos' Central Park attack in the last seconds of Act Three, nothing else happens that could genuinely qualify as action. That was mostly a result of what was once a four-parter being turned into a five-parter. The reason we made that change is because Michael Reaves wrote a brillaint four-part script. It was amazing. But it was WAY too long. I was faced with either having to make drastic cuts (as I would later have to do in Avalon and Hunter's Moon) or expand it. Fortunately, Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston saw the wisdom of expansion. For one thing, it would save us money. But also, it made sense because we could run the five parts across a whole week of the Disney Afternoon like a mini-series special event. It wouldn't require us to re-program one day of that first week. So we were all agreed, the four parter would become a five parter.
But that meant adding act breaks, and redividing everything. The episode that most benefited was Part One. In the orignal version, Part One covered all of what is currently part one, plus the first act of what's currently part two, i.e. ALL the Scotland stuff. The episode ended with Goliath's "suicide". A great ending, but we would have obviously had to cut a TON out of the flashback. This way we were able to expand into part two and preserve almost all of the story.
So Part Three winds up being nearly action-free. And by the way, I love that. I still think the episode works great, and it proved to me that the charcters themselves could really hold the audience's attention. (I'm such a proud papa. Unashamedly so. It must be pretty obnoxious.) I wish we had always had the luxury to be so... well, luxurious. To expand and play character. But generally a half-hour format makes it tough. I'm very sick of writing half hours, actually. But the powers that be in Animation believe that kids can't or won't sit through an hour long show.
As usual, I welcome posts here responding to this episode. Both your original reaction to seeing it for the first time, and your current reaction if you've seen it again recently.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Is Boudicca the only gargoyle beast of the Avalon clan? And does the fact that gargoyle beasts seem even rarer than normal gargoyles mean that their species is in an even worse danger of extinction?
Greg responds...
No, she's not. But the beast species is, generally, in even greater danger of extinction than gargoyles.
Todd Jensen writes...
How did the Avalon gargoyles learn how to glide? After all, their human foster-parents were obviously in no position to teach them themselves how to do it.
Greg responds...
Trial and error.
MAui writes...
Hi there ;)
Just wondering...where did you guys come up With the Name Bouhdicca? (sp?) thanks alot, have a ncie day ;)
Greg responds...
Boudicca was a Celtic female warrior. I don't actually know that much about her. Brynne Chandler Reaves and/or Lydia Marano chose that name.
Heather N. Allen writes...
I'll mention here that I've reintroduced myself to Gargoyles only this summer via fan webpages and I've managed to get Toon Disney for only a month. Therefore, while not completly updated on every detail of each episode, I do remember quite a bit from the original airdates of them. And if this question has been asked before, forgive me, but I've only frequented Ask Greg for three months. If it's in the archives somewhere, just point the way. SOOO, without further ado...
I remember in a past question where you mentioned recycling characters. (Morgan, Margot and Brendan, Vinnie, etc.) While watching the AVALON episodes, I noticed that many of Angela's rookery sibs were identical to those gargoyles seen in Demona's renagade clan from 2nd century, right down to the clothing. As I understood it, she collected THEM from other clans that were destroyed throughout Scotland. No way for their eggs to end up in Wyvern's rookery, or even on Avalon for that matter.
So, here's the question: were these gargs mearly another batch of recycled characters? And if so, why use them on Avalon? Did you see any kind of conflict coming from this? Or is there another reason altogether that I'm missing entirley?
By the way, I REALLY envy you for having created such a great story, with all these fictional and factual elements mixed in to create the best animated series ever. Wish I'd thought of it :)
Greg responds...
If you're looking for the "Behind the Scenes" answer it's pretty obvious. We couldn't afford to design multiple clans of background gargoyles everytime we did a flashback story or went to Avalon. So we reused the models, figuring most people wouldn't notice.
But there's also a within the Universe explanation that works for me. When a Gargoyle clan gets too large for it's location, it splits and colonizes. The Wyvern Clan had been living in relative peace under Prince Malcolm. In my mind it got up to about 100 or so Gargoyles and Beasts. That was too large a number for Wyvern to sustain, so approximately half of the gargoyle population moved on to found a new colony, start a new clan. But all the eggs were left behind in the established Wyvern rookery. The new colony obviously didn't fair any better than Wyvern ultimately, but Demona collected up a few of its survivors, during the Maol Chalvim/Duncan era.
But some of those survivors left eggs behind at the Wyvern rookery, which explains why there are some look-alikes on Avalon.
As for the clothes.... Give me a break.
Aris Katsaris writes...
This is more of a comment/correction rather than a question. I think that you've miscalculated a date. In a previous Ask Greg question you had said that you had once calculated that the gargs both in Avalon and in the real world will lay eggs at 2008. I think that must have been a mistake on your part: I believe that gargoyles lay egg in their 50th or 49th year (biological 25). That would mean that in Avalon-time 50*24=1200 years. The gargs at avalon should lay their eggs only 1200 real-world years after they were hatched. That in turn means that if they were hatched around somewhere around year 1040, they shouldn't lay eggs until 2240 or something like that...
Anyway thought I should mention this...
Greg responds...
No, that's not right.
God knows it's been years since I did this math, however I think you are operating on faulty assumptions.
Yes, the Avalon eggs hatched in 1044.
Thus by 1995, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, et al. would all be biologically twenty years old. That's way past Gargoyle puberty in my book. So what remains is for their internal clocks to be in sync, so to speak, with the natural rhythms of the Earth that would put the females "in heat" (for lack of a better term). That would next occur sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.
That easily puts, say, Ophelia in synch with Angela and Obsidiana out in the real world. The difference comes twenty years later in 2028, when the latter two might again lay eggs. But to Ophelia she would have only just laid her first egg a mere 20 months ago. I don't know whether that's enough recovery time for her, enough time for her own internal cycle -- but in any case her first egg certainly wouldn't have hatched yet.
It's also worth considering whether Ophelia and Angela might have been "in heat" in Avalon in 1988? Maybe they were, and maybe Katharine was preaching abstinence in a major way.
Suddenly, I feel like this is Christine's show. :) [No, I haven't read her fan-fiction, but boy have I heard rumors.]
In any case, for those of you with dirty minds, I think Angela was a virgin even at the time of "The Journey". (Broadway too for that matter.) Not so sure about Ophelia.