Alex (aka Aldrius) writes...

Arc 4 review! (Kaldur's story, so episodes 14-18 I think)

So I LOVE this arc. I love the Atlantean lore, I love the storytelling, I love the characterization and I love the way time is used.

I've always loved this version of Kaldur and Atlantis. I like it so much that when I rewatched Justice League (and Unlimited) this year, I liked their version of Atlantis & Aquaman so much solely because of how well presented they were in *this* show. Maybe that sounds weird, but it's true.

So this story to me, more than anything despite being "Kaldur's arc" is really a story about Atlantis. Kaldur is the pivotal character, the POV character, the hero who (kind of) saves the day, but it's really a story about the fate of Atlantis, and who should rule it. It's also, forgive me for putting it this way, but it "makes up for" the sort off-handed way Ocean Master got dealt with in season 3. In a really cool way. It wasn't really necessary, but I like it.

I love the way time is used in this arc. The fact that we start before the start point of arc 3, but then we cut to a few weeks later halfway through this arc is really cool. I also really love the mystery of the Return of Ocean Master. I cannot remember what I thought at the time, I don't know if I put much thought into it, and really only a clone is what makes sense. Well, I guess there're other things that make sense, especially since the Light transplanted the real Orm's brain into a new cloned body. So I suppose the sky's the limit on what the light is capable of.

I suppose one could think it a cheat, a way to bring back a character. But firstly, Orm's death wasn't like a super impactful thing that I feel like it undermines some important emotional moment. I think it only makes the Light seem more devious, that not only would they have their enforcer behead Orm, but they'd keep his brain around to use later for their own ends. So I don't think it's a cheat.

I really do like the way the show will find new ways to use old concepts. So the Light making new clones to develop even more insidious plans than it did before.

The Orm clone was a lot of fun too, and I really liked all the scenes between him and Orin. In fact, I LOVED all the Orin scenes in this arc in general. Orin sort of working out all of his issues with his brother, through his clone and giving clone-Orm a chance to have a different fate. I also like the way the Arion stuff from arc 3 (which seemed interesting but a bit superfluous at the time) and really uses it well here. The scene with the Tiara could be seen as a bit of a cliche, ala the Nazis opening the arc of the covenant, or really any story where an arrogant mortal man abuses the power of god, but it's such a triumphant moment I really don't care.

David Kaye does a really good job making Arion and Vandall sound like different people. I really get a strong sense of who Arion was in general.

The only REAL complaint I have about the arc is the lack of Mera. And that's not because I love Mera and think she needs to be more important, but just because the storytelling and the plot are really built around Mera. And in the end while making her Queen is both logical (i.e. it makes both her father and her husband happy) and is narratively satisfying with the prophecy angle, to a degree I wish we got more of a sense of what *she* thinks is going on, but she's really just a mouth piece for a prophecy, which I find less satisfying than I would like. It didn't hurt the story or the storytelling, and certainly Mera comes across as competent and heroic through out the story; but that's my minor quibble for the episode. I would have liked to have seen more of her perspective.

Kaldur's arc, which is something I think a lot of people kind of took umbrage with; I'm honestly totally fine with. Not wowed by it, but it's fine. It's honestly not really that important to the story because ultimately as I said, it's a story about *Atlantis*. And I've never really understood what it would add for Kaldur to have some lesson, or some theme, or have some transformation. Kaldur's whole thing is that he's *steady*. He's reliable, he's a good leader, he's a good mentor, he approaches problems and situations logically. By the end of this story, he's just worn out, he's just been working too hard and everyone is telling him to take it easy.

It's fine. I think "he's just *too stoic and capable*" is kind of a weird conflict to give a character because I think it's a tough thing to make relatable or to provide some dramatic tension. Kaldur really isn't showing any signs of fraying until the story's over, when he has his break down. And that's tragic and heartbreaking, but it comes a bit late in the arc to be emotionally effective I think. Again, I don't think this detracts from the story, but it feels like the sort of thing that maybe would have been more dramatically effective at the midpoint of the story. I'm not sure. I think it might have worked better, but I also don't think it's something Kaldur needs.

I think it's totally fine that Kaldur is just consistent and reliable. Seeing a bit of humanity and weakness at the end was fine too. I really don't see the problem with any of this. Like yeah, if I was breaking the story down using Saving the Cat or something I might say it's a weak arc for your main character, but I've really never bought into the idea that the character who transforms or changes or goes through the mud has to be your *main* character necessarily. It's okay for your lead to be steady, and for *another* character to go through that dramatic transition.

In this case I think it's Atlantis at large, and to an extent Orin/Arthur who really go through that transition. And it's super effective, as I mentioned above I *love* all the Orin scenes in this arc. I love the bit where the Sharks are circling like his muscle. I loved seeing Orin as a detective. It's all just really, really cool.

I really liked the epilogue with Vandal and Dr. Fate too. This is a sort of story archetype I'm seeing more and more (at least it was a big part of Toy Story 4 of all things --...and Mad Men). Where a male character who is used to being the decider discovers that things are kind of moving on from him, that the world maybe doesn't need him to take risks and make big decisions for it. I like it a lot, and I think it's very well placed here. And very thematic too, with Orin's arc in the story. Even Kaldur's arc really.

I think that's everything, I usually forget something I wanted to mention but I think that's everything.
Alex (or Aldrius)

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

In the current iteration of the mainstream DC Comics continuity (Prime Earth), Deadshot has two daughters, Zoe and Suchin; the former goes by the vigilante codename, Liveshot, and is an archer. As such, do both of Deadshot's daughters also exist in the Earth-16 universe?

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

I sincerely hope that Kara and Mary will not be the only two members of the new generation of Furies. I personally think there are other female DC Comics characters we haven't seen yet on Earth-16 who might also work out as potential recruits for the Furies. However, I will refrain from making any suggestions to you just in case you've already figured it out on your own.

Anonymous writes...

Questions in regards to the Earth-16 version of Ultra-Humanite:

#1. When he was originally a male scientist, what was his original name? Also, did he have any family at that time?

#2. What was the name of the woman whom he transferred his brain into, and did that woman have any family? Also, what happened to the woman's body after Ultra-Humanite's brain was transferred into the albino gorilla, Tolifhar?

#3. Why did Ultra-Humanite come up the brain transfer process in the first place? Was it because he wanted to cheat death and live forever? Or did his original human body suffered from some kind of terminal illness in which there was no cure?

I love Shakespeare writes...

Hey Greg,
How much of old school works like hamlet have influenced your work. Also how did Pete come up with his web fluid and shoters. The Netflix reshow got me thinking ðŸ'­on this.

Anonymous writes...

did zatanna attend college?

Anonymous writes...

What kind of support did Em'ree give M'gann when she came to Earth? I'm sorry to see that we didn't see more of Em'ree and M'gann during the latter half of Phantoms? Was it a hard adjustment for Em'ree being on Earth and whatever happened to her after the wedding? Did Em'ree go back to Mars after Season 4 or did she decide to continue living on Earth and if so is she still living with M'gann and Conner or has she moved out and found a place to live in Happy Harbour?

Anonymous writes...

1. In the months when M'gann thought Conner was dead, how she did handle their anniversaries
*they got engaged
*when they first met
*getting back together
What did she do during those days and what did everyone do to help her during those rough times?

2. On the Team's 10 year anniversary, how did they spend the day? Were they altogether and if so did they do anything special to honor it, especially considering it was also the same day they met Conner and were still mourning him? It had to have been an extremely painful day for everyone. Rescuing Superboy was the Team's very first mission together. He was the reason they were altogether and the fact he was gone, really had to be extremely painful for everyone.

Pedro writes...

Is Bart Allen a person with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder?

John Paul Gontor writes...

Hey Mr.weisman
One question and I hope it wouldn't offend you:
Why make Halo middle eastern and Muslim in Young Justice?

Hafiz writes...

Denise Boutte once in an interview referred to Lynn Stewart-Pierce as "Doctor". Does this stand true in the YJ Continuity?

Lsaya writes...

how in regards to bart s2, how much does he know whats going on/plan for?
for instance, losing the fight to nightwing and robin and did he know mal was going to be there right then?
did he know aqualad wanst really a traitor and artemis was alive?
how much was he winging of his "change the past" plan, how detailed was his knowledge prior to traveling back in time?

Hayden Philyaw writes...

Did Gar know his mother was Lesbian/Bisexual?

Anonymous writes...

Why didn't you give Conner and M'gann a reunion kiss in the last episode of season 4 after the battle ended or was their wedding kiss also serving as their reunion kiss and if so did they want that way to make it more special since it was their first kiss since being reunited together?

Anonymous writes...

In an effort to restart the investigation since the case ran cold, did the original team or justice league ever ask Miss Martian access to her memories on the days leading up to Conner's death?

Anonymous writes...

1. Who attended the lighting ceremony of Superboy's memorial hologram aboard the Watchtower aside from Dick and Kaldur?
2. When M'gann went to visit Conner's memorial for the first time, did she go by herself or did the entire original team go with her for support? Also were any members of the Justice League, Team or Outsiders also present to offer their support to Miss Martian and show their respect to Superboy?
3. Why did Bear wait to so long to offer his sympathizes for Conner's death considering how close they were?
4. What are the favourite Disney films of the original team members and why?

Anonymous writes...

Has Black Lightning taken Livewire under his wing as his protege like Static?

Anonymous writes...

Will you guys have Mgann be called Mrs Martian instead of Miss since she officially married Conner?

Anonymous writes...

How come Tye, Asami, and Arsenal never went to the Harvest Festival that was being held at the Meta-Human Youth Center during the episode "Illusion of Control”?

Katy K. writes...

Hey Greg! I have been in the Gargoyles fandom for at least a few years, and I've got a question about something almost everyone I've talked to in the fandom, including myself, believe in, and I'm curiousif it's true. Do Gargoyles purr or at least have the ability to do so?

Paul writes...

Hi Greg I'd like to ask just two questions: 1) Can Shazam shoot lightning from your hands? I've never seen him do that at any point in the series? 2) Is Superman the Physically Strongest Hero on Earth - 16? Sorry for my english, I'm from Brazil :)

Anonymous writes...

1. Why did Superboy go with Miss Martian to the Hall of Justice to interrogate the Krolotean in Alienated? What was the point of it since he didn't/couldn't really stop her from abusing her powers or what she did the alien?

2. By season 3/4, does M'gann look back in disgust over how she was in season 2? How she acted, everything she did and especially everyone she hurt? She was the WORST version of herself in season 2. How did you about her storyline in that season?

Anonymous writes...

What year did the team stop having den mothers in the cave (if they ever did)? Did they stop using den mothers when some of the older members (like Kaldur) became adults, or when the JL felt like the team could operate mostly independently?

Anonymous writes...

I'd assume the productions of both YJ and the Green Arrow short were happening simultaneously, so I wonder when Perdita was created. Is she original for YJ or Green Arrow's showcase? Has Brandon had any hand in her creation?

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

Just for clarification, the Earth-16 versions of Hawkman and Hawkwoman do NOT have the ability to reincarnate after they die (just like their comic book counterparts); am I correct? As such, that would also mean they were also NOT members of the Earth-16 version of the Justice Society of America/All-Star Squadron?

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

In the Earth-16 universe, when did Hawkwman and Hawkwoman first arrived on Earth? Please give an exact date (mm/dd/yyyy), if possible.

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

Since Saturn Girl, Phantom Girl, and Chameleon Boy were finally able to go home to the 31st century in the Season 4 finale, will the technology from that time period be able to repair the burn damage on Phantom Girl's right hand?

M. writes...

Regarding this ask https://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=26325
Does yoir answer mean that Jade was still with Roy in YJ Legacy? Because you said that the main reason Jade left him was that she found out she was pregnant and he couldn't focus on them. But here you're saying she fled the Shadows because she realized she was pregnant. Something is not adding up. Does that mean that she left Roy (for whatever reason), joined the Shadows again, AND THEN found out she was pregnant and left them? I apologize if this question comes out as rude. I just want some clarity regarding this topic.

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

In a flashback, the Outsiders fought against Kobra near a radio tower, but there were no specifics as to where this fight took place on Earth. If this happened somewhere in the United States, can you please give the specific location? Also, can you please tell us what exactly led up to the fight in the first place (because I want to know how the Outsiders found out what Kobra was up to)?

ThunderCrash writes...

So in a previous response you said "No, there aren't two bodies per character, with one in storage, as in Miracleman. Their bodies are transformed magically when they say, "Shazam!". But when asked about whether he would need to get two cure chips for both Billy and Captain Marvel or just giving Billy one would do the trick, you said "I'm sure they took no chances.". So did the team and justice league give him two cure chips to ensure no possibility of mind control despite only having one would do the trick simply out of paranoia. Can you explain this, I am having a little doubt whether to think of Captain Marvel and Billy as the same physical body or is it more the magical augmentation will also have the control chip in it even after the form disappears. Basically is the health and physical state of Billy Batson(fractures, mind control or just the flu) influence his Captain Marvel form(Captain Marvel having a fracture for instance) and vica versa.

Anonymous writes...

Assuming Jason's personality is the same in the Earth-16 universe as it is in the comics, was he brought into the Team by Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson in the hopes that learning how to be a team player and making friends with others around his age would help get Jason to simmer down on his anger and violent tendencies? Did it actually help Jason to some degree; even though he ultimately died? Also, given his personality, did Black Canary had to talk to Jason a lot in comparison to the other young heroes, and did that frustrate her at times?

Anonymous writes...

If Wonder Girl's father is Zeus in the Earth-16 universe, does that mean all of Zeus' siblings are Wonder Girl's paternal half-aunts and paternal half-uncles, all of Zeus' children are Wonder Girl's paternal half-brothers and paternal half-sisters, and all the children of Zeus' siblings are Wonder Girl's paternal half-cousins?

Anonymous writes...

#1. At the time when he first encountered the Justice Society of America, what was Vandal Savage trying to do, and how did the JSA managed to defeat him?

#2. Aside from Vandal Savage, what other dangerous supervillains did the JSA encountered before they eventually disbanded?

Clark Cradic writes...

Did Superboy spend much time in Smallville? I got the implication he and the Kents were pretty familiar. Is his connection to Clark as his "brother" known to people outside the team/family?

Alex (or Aldrius) writes...

Arc 3 "Zatanna" ramble

So, this arc is strange to me. In a good way. Lately I've sort of been trying to think of arcs and stories in terms of a core dramatic question. What is the story asking? And what is the answer? Normally to my observation the question is usually asked by the end of the halfway mark of the story, with the answer coming at the end. In some form or another.

This arc is strange because it answers the question before it's even really been properly asked.

So in effect, this story is a Dr. Fate story I think. That was the strongest element to me, that was the most important part, it was certainly the one I actively cared about the most (it's really an arc that's been going on since near the beginning of season 1). The dramatic question as such, is "are Zatanna's students worthy to take up the mantle of Dr. Fate?". But that question isn't *really* asked until the very end of the story after they've dealt with Child. And by that point the question has already, very clearly I'd say, been answered. They are. (except for Mary)

So I really like that element of the story structure, that it sort of works in reverse. Really different.

The Chaos Lord stuff just isn't really my thing, I think is what it comes down to. I like the primordial element, I like the reinterpretation of Klarion, but the body horror and the smug ageless child thing isn't my taste. (It's possible Black Lagoon ruined it for me, though.) But I do really like the mythic elements here, the need for a familiar, the way different familiars manifest. I even sort of like the idea of the Lords of Order and Chaos holding court (sometimes with one another). And I think it's cool that Vandal Savage sort of solved the problem through diplomacy. Though I think his argument was a bit obvious (though I guess it wasn't to the Lords of Chaos).

The mindscape stuff in the middle of the arc was a bit odd to me. Mindscapes have always been a Weisman classic, so I wasn't particularly surprised to see them here. These were pretty effective and at times creepy, but I kind of wish we'd gotten this information in a more traditional way. I think the main thing that threw me off here was the placement of them. They sort of come in the middle of the action, when things are extremely desperate, It's an odd time to take a break to do some character development. In fact the whole pattern of the arc is odd to me. It's almost constant rising of stakes, and then when things are at their most intense, we sort of wander off to focus on some down time. Either meeting Jason Blood, or Dr. Fate, or the stuff with Klarion and the bus.

Then there was the stuff with Zatara. Now, I think partly the purpose of the stuff with Zatara, or my impression of it was to make Zatara less of a prop. Zatara potentially could be nothing more than an objective for Zatanna. She's got to rescue her nice, but unremarkable father from despotic forces. I think that's a good intention, but again came in at an odd time in the story. It also sort of muddled the through line of the storytelling in a way I wasn't the biggest fan of.

Because ultimately, while I think I'd argue it is a Zatanna, Dr. Fate Zatara story, I'm not sure it's important to really understand Zatara beyond the fact that Zatanna cares about him. And I don't really begrudge the storytelling that indulgence, I'm not an essentialist the way some people are, but I just think this story already has so many characters and subplots going on it winds up just being another layer to contextualize and care about and the show is already asking a lot. It didn't need to work this hard to make me care about Zatara, or to explain Zatara. I already care about Zatara and Zatanna.

The religious elements too, I think I'm not sure what to think of. I'm not a religious person, and Christianity in particular makes me very uncomfortable. So the shot of Nabu and Zatara facing off with an Ankh and a cross behind them made me chuckle a bit. Just because it reminded me of a narmy 70s comic cover (was it based on a cover actually?). But I think religion is a *very* big topic, and it's hard to kind of compartmentalize in this sort of story. Like, for me, what's important about Khalid's story isn't his relationship with magic, or with god, but his relationship with his mother. Which there isn't time or space to explore because of how ambitious this arc is. So it kind of just gets boiled down to him feeling pressure to choose something, and him deciding he doesn't have to choose. And I wish we got more context for that. Though there's an obvious irony in him being pressured into becoming a doctor and ending up as doctor fate, obviously. I'm less enamored with that now a few months later than I was when I watched it, but I still appreciate it.

One other thing I wanna comment on, because I've seen this criticism that this isn't really Zatanna's story. Which I suppose is true. I've seen this idea put forth by a lot of youtubes and film critic-type people, the idea of sort of the want/need and the core narrative of a character. Like because Zatanna doesn't transform, or learn something, or realize an unrealized need it's not her story. She knows what she wants at the beginning of the arc, and she knows how she wants to get it. And things just kind of... fall into place after that and she gets what she wants, the story wouldn't really have been that different if Zatanna had just knocked on Dr. Fate's door and had a conversation with him about cycling hosts. Which means perhaps the story is less dynamic and connected than it could be, but I don't think that's a *problem* necessarily.

Because ultimately the transformation is Dr. Fate's. This is a story about Dr. Fate. And I think that's good. Your P.O.V. character or protagonist doesn't necessarily need to be the character to whom things are happening.

It's interesting because I think this is also *very* reflected in Kaldur's arc.

I've rewritten this like 4 times to try and make it sound as constructive and not negative as possible, and I think I failed miserably at that, but there *is* a lot I liked about this arc. It's generally stuff that's just... always good, though. The characters are well drawn out, the conflicts are endearing, the story's creative, the global scope was impressive. It wasn't petty, it felt like everything was consequential. I still love this show's take on doctor fate *a lot*. I liked that we got a resolution to the Dr. Fate arc that started so many years ago.

So... yeah, I liked it. The Kaldur arc was my favourite of the season, though, so I'm looking forward to writing that ramble.

Darcy writes...

Spectacular Spider-Man is one of my most favourite shows and it sucks it only got 2 seasons. I read online that you wanted it to have 5 seasons so how come it got cancelled and is there any hope of it getting at least 1 more season ?

Anonymous writes...

1) Does the supervillain named Metallo exist in Earth-16?

2) Does the female supervillain named Giganta exist in Earth-16?

3) Does the alien supervillain named Sinestro exist in Earth-16 and was a former member of the Green Lantern Corps who went rogue and became one of their enemies?

4) Does the supervillain named Solomon Grundy exist in Earth-16?

5) Does the supervillain named Tar Pit (Joey Monteleone) exist in Earth-16?

6) Does the Supervillain Team called the Royal Flush Gang exist in Earth-16?

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

Going through the "Unanswered Questions," I noticed that there are a few people who are getting things mixed up with the possible relationships between Bruce Wayne and his other family members in the Kane family tree in Earth-16 universe. To settle the matter once and for all, can you please confirm if the following information below is correct?

#1. From Bruce Wayne's point of view, his maternal cousins are Kate Kane, Beth Kane, and Bette Kane. His maternal uncles would therefore be Jacob Kane (Kate's and Beth's father) and Bette's unnamed father.

#2. From Kate Kane's and Beth Kane's point of view, their paternal cousins are Bruce Wayne and Bette Kane. Their paternal aunt would therefore be Martha Wayne (Bruce's mother), and their paternal uncle would therefore be Bette's unnamed father.

#3. From Bette Kane's point of view, her paternal cousins are Kate Kane, Beth Kane, and Bruce Wayne. Her paternal aunt would therefore be Martha Wayne (Bruce's mother), and her paternal uncle would therefore be Jacob Kane (Kate's and Beth's father).

Hawkfan writes...

I have a question about Young Justice's "Endgame."

1. Why didn't Hawkman say something to defend Shayera? Idk it just seems kind of out of character for him not to say anything at all.

Anonymous writes...

Does superboy feel responisble for garfield's beakup with up with queen perditia after all garfield believe he cause conner to die ?

Anonymous writes...

This isn't really a serious question and I hope this wouldn't be something too spoiler-y, but since returning to 1997, have Brooklyn and/or Gnash ever sat down whenever a new show/episode comes on for the first time saying that it's a classic much to Lex and Broadway's confusion like the Marty McFly meme?

Population Question writes...

I remember the statement that Mars has an overpopulation issue. Approximately how big is the Martian population in 2020(a.k.a. Team Year Ten)?

Anonymous writes...

If something were to happen to deathstroke would lady Shiva become the head of the shadows?

Gregory writes...

Hey Mr. Weisman.
I just wanted to let you know that I am going to keep on giving my support to save Young Justice.
#SaveEarth16

Anonymous writes...

Is Nightwing related to the Crownes on Earth-16?

Matheus writes...

Hi, Greg. I'm from Brazil, so, sorry for any misspelling (English is still my second language and i speak, listen and read more than I write). A few questions after watching season 4 of Young Justice:
1- Tim and Steph looked very cudly on the wedding scene. Was that an indication that they're together now?
2- If Ollie is broke since season 1, how did he still used all those trick arrows? The League? Bruce? I'm considering its something expensive and that i can't just buy on a regular sporting goods shop
3- I remember Rocket talking about Orion as Darkseid's child. Since there wasn't any (at least seen) conflict between the heroes and Darkseid, do they know about him because of the conflict at the orphanage? They've been doing some digging? Reports from the GL Corps? I assume they know everything about Granny Goodness, at least, and there was that conflict in Season 1 involving Desaad, but i could be forgetting something and don't believe any Darkseid loyalist would rat on him

Those were the questions. Thank u for your time. Hoping for a season 5 and, if not, that whatever new product you develop be as awesome as spectacular spidey, gargoyles and YJ (just need to finish gargoyles on Disney Plus)

Anonymous writes...

1. In the House of El family tree, Kal-El and Kara Zor-El would be PATERNAL cousins because their respective fathers, Jor-El and Zor-El, are brothers. However, what would be Kara's exact relationship with both Kon-El and Johnny Kent; even though they are also likely PATERNAL?

2. In the Kane family tree, Bruce Wayne would the MATERNAL cousin of Kate Kane and Bette Kane; while Kate Kane and Bette Kane would be the PATERNAL cousins of Bruce Wayne. Both cases are because Bruce's mother, Kate's father, and Bette's father are siblings. However, what would be Kate's and Bette's exact relationship with Bruce's and Talia's son, Damian?

PS. I understand if you might get put off with questions associated with PATERNAL and MATERNAL relationships, but I'm just trying to make sure of the accuracy of such familial relationships in the Earth-16 universe; in comparison to the character's counterparts in the mainstream DC Universe (New Earth/Prime Earth).

Anonymous writes...

Mr. Weisman,

Will we ever see the Earth-16 version of the location known as Skartaris (a hollow world inhabited by various prehistoric creatures and mythical creatures)?

Impetuous_77 writes...

What would've happened if the Rimbor 6 remembered what they did?

Anonymous writes...

I remember mention of “inevitable repercussions” for Martian Sorcerer-Priests and Priestesses who perform mixed race wedding ceremonies. What exactly are said repercussions?