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In High Noon when Desdemona splits her self in three and says, "Even shadows must be true to thier shade". Her three images have the same different hair as the Wierd Sisters. Coincidence, I think not.
I think not too.
I was watching my tape of "Cloud Fathers" and wondered over one line in it. In the "Arizona - 1960" flashback scene, Carlos Maza protests his son's decision to leave his people to live with the "Waseshu". Who are the "Waseshu"? (I assume that it's a name for the people of Manhattan, given the context, but want to make certain).
It's a perjorative term for caucasians. Or so I was told.
Hello, Greg!
About the episode future Tense
when Goliath "kills" Xanatos' perso, shouldn't it have killed Lexington by feedback (like it killed Alexander, Brooklyn, Angela and Demona?
Was it a glitch in Puck's illusion, or the Xanatos persona was a mere artificial intelligence?
((Next time, before Puck create a cyberpunkish illusion, he would gain to read William Gibson's Neuromancer ;p))
Why would it have killed Lex? He wasn't hooked into Xanatos. He simply manipulated the program.
In "Bushido", when Taro is arguing with Kai over Kai's decision to leave, he reaches for a small gargoyle statue on his podium and tilts the head. Nothing happens, however (the one element in the gargoyle theme park that we see afterwards that it could possibly have triggered, the laser weapons firing from the cathedral towers and other such places, doesn't start up until some time later, when Taro gives the actual verbal order for it). What exactly was it supposed to do?
I'd have to watch it again. I don't remember.
In "The Reckoning", we see Demona in a exosuit. Did she built it or stole it from the Golden Cup?
Stole it.
Okay, Hi I love your show and am currently watching City of Stone and reading the play Macbeth. But I do have a question reguarding the human statues.
1. Were the human beings killed and if so why wasnt there a news cast or some sort of uproar about it?
2. If they were killed then why is the lawyer couple Margert Yale and hubby still alive if they were statues, and I saw them as statues when demona was hanging on them.
3.
1. There might have been. We just didn't show it to you.
2. Looks a lot like them, doesn't it? But it wasn't.
3.
Hi Greg! I was wathching "The Reckoning" last night on the family channel (Yay, Canada!)I noticed that when (Fang?) was in the cell beside Demona's, he asked Goliath a joke. I couldn't help but wonder, what was the second part of "How many Gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" Anyway, thank you to all of you guys for giving the fans a great show. Gargoyles is the best.
Actually, I might save that for a contest. Thanks for reminding me.
In "M.I.A.", when Una is attempting to dissuade Griff from going off with Goliath to defend London from the Nazis during the Battle of Britain, she says that she has "a bad feeling about tonight". That very night, of course, is the night that Griff disappears (thanks to Goliath and the Phoenix Gate, who brought him to 1995).
Did Una's uneasy forebodings have a prophetic element in them (given that she is a practicing sorceress), or did they stem purely from her mundane fears that Griff would be killed in the fighting, that merely seemed prophetic from the vantage point of hindsight?
Both.
Quick Q...
In the FUTURE TENSE universe ( ie, had Goliath not realized that it all was a big hoax by the changeling Puck and it thereby became Goliath's reality)
1. Did Brooklyn and Demona have any eggs?
2. During the roof scene between Demona and Goliath, she begs him to save their daughter. I'm assuming off-camera he had explained the entire situation to the surviving clan... doesDemona at this point harbor any grudge towards Elisa or is she forgotten?
3. In Future tense... WOULD gargoyles make marks on hardwood floors?
suimasen, Weisman-sama
None of these questions make much sense, except maybe 3. You're looking for completeness and rationales in a VERY incomplete faux world. Did you see the Truman Show? Think of what Goliath was presented with as a glorified Hollywood Movie set. Puck didn't work any harder than he had too.
In Puck's "Future Tense" illusion, was he attempting to use guilt as a weapon against Goliath to break him down, as well as shock and grief? Brooklyn and Lexington both berated Goliath severely for "running away" and leaving the clan and Manhattan defenceless against Xanatos, making it clear that in their eyes, it was all his fault that the city was in the condition that it was. Lexington also implied (at least, how I saw it) that Goliath's "abandoning" the clan was a reason for his turning evil. So, was Puck attempting to fill Goliath with guilt to weaken him all the more?
Yep.
Hi, Greg.
I love the show; thanks for answering our questions, etc.
Now that the clans contest is over, I have a question. In "Bushido," Taro built a gargoyles theme park. The first few times I watched it, I was too enthralled by the new Japanese gargoyles to notice the backgrounds. Recently I realized that the park was more than a re-creation of Ishimura. The castle looks just like Wyvern, Notre Dame de Paris can be seen, and there were a few other buildings of various architechtural design.
1) Did Taro really know there were gargoyles at Wyvern, Paris, etc. or did he just guess?
2) If he did know, how? Is he acquainted with Xanatos, the Illuminati, or someone else who knew?
Thanks for your time!
1. It's not Wyvern. It's Edinburgh, I believe. And no. He was creating different "lands" for his theme park. So he picked a medieval Scotish Castle. And he picked a cathedral in Paris that is famous for his gargoyles. And currently, there are no gargoyles in either location.
2. No.
Did we see Brooklyn's permanent injury, in any form in the episode 'Future Tense'.
Not that I can recall. Was he injured in that episode?
I just read your scene that got cut out of 'Hunter's Moon part three' again and it made me wonder would you ever use that scene again in a flashback?
I'd love to if I could work it in organically and not force it in, simply because I think it's cool.
Okay, another question from someone else's question:
Ed asked about vampires in the Gargoyle universe. I've never really thought about vampires myself, but since you mentioned that vampirism is a curse, not a race, I started wondering, can gargoyles become vampires?
Thanks!
We tried to make in ambiguous for the hopeful. Obvious, for the cynical. Does that make sense?
Sixshot asked if anyone survived the crash of Fortress I and you responded: "I'm not saying until the families can be notified."
They haven't been notified after 6 years??? :)
Anyway, I think this was my "Omigosh, this is unlike any show I've ever seen before" moment. As each of the motors are blowing up, trhere's a scene where people are bailing out into the river and just before someone jumps, there's another explosion and he doesn't make it. I was aghast the first time I saw it. I kept thinking it would go back to that scene and make it clear that everyone was okay... but it never did. Tragedy is part of life... and it was a part of the show.
We tried to make in ambiguous for the hopeful. Obvious, for the cynical. Does that make sense?
How did the Banshee get around Oberon's non-intervention edict when she kidnapped Goliath, Elisa, and Angela, and took them to Cairn na Culainn for interrogation?
Her excuse was she thought they were agents of Oberon. The scent of Avalon was upon them, so she thought she wasn't interfering with mortals. Just with Oberon. Of course, she did this at her own peril. But there was nothing magical preventing her from doing it.
You mentioned that the Archmage does take a little extra "time travel journey" in Avalon Part Three, if one watches carefully. Is this the part where the Archmage and Goliath are battling and the Phoenix Gate starts transporting the two of them all over the place? (I always liked that scene).
Clever boy.
Wyvern area questions:
1) Do the ancient ruins within/beneath the Archmage's lair have anything to do with that ancient--and now extinct--fourth race of sentient beings on Earth? 2) Did the presence of a gargoyle clan at the cliffs of Wyvern have anything to do with those ruins in the Archmage's lair? 3) When I asked about your answer that the area was "mostly" haunted by Hakon and the captain, you asked "when?". So to specify, who else haunted the area a) in the days the 4th race still roamed the Earth b) the time between their extinction and the appearance of the Wyvern clan on the cliffs c) the time between when the Wyvern clan appeared and when Malcolm constructed a castle on the cliff d) The time between when Malcolm's castle was built and Hakon and the Captain were killed (this includes the period directly after the Wyvern massacre). 4) In "Shadows of the Past", upon looking at the carvings, Angela sees the Archmage attacking a gargoyle. Yet you said that the hieroglyphics in this cave were ancient, so they *couldn't* be of the Archmage himself, right? And Goliath seems to see something different. So are different people *really* seeing different things, or is Goliath hallucinating because of the ghosts, or it a property of the carving itself? 5a) Are the ones who built the ruins beneath the cave, also the ones who built the ruins over which Malcolm built his castle? 5b) Did any of those ruins at the old castle site possess magical properties, like the temple building in the lair? 5c) Were any parts of these ruins directly incorporated into the foundations of Malcolm's new castle? 6a) When the captain explained why they were trapped there, he said "Maybe it was the magic in this place....". Is the magic he's referring to solely a property of the ruins that were constructed there, or is the area itself inherently magical? b) If it's the latter, how far does this magic extend? Outside of the cave? The entire cliff? Miles? c) If it includes the cliff, would this magic still remain in the pieces that were transported to Xanatos's building? d) If the magic of the area helped hold Hakon and the captain's spirits, was it also a factor in why the Coldtrio's spirits were held in suspension and still around to be transferred to Coldstone? e) Hakon and the Captain seemed to be able to animate bits rock to look and act like Goliath's clan. But Goliath's clan was also killed nearby, and their spirits could have animated the rock-clan (except Demona). Just to be clear, was the rock-clan controlled entirely by Hakon and the Captain?
Vash, it would really make my life easier if you would hit the return key between each question.
1. I'm not saying.
2. Sorta.
3. Does 4th race equate with LSZ's "Zeroth" race or am I just getting confused again? Look let me just sum up by saying that the Captain and Hakon weren't the only ghosts to ever haunt that place.
4. All of the above. And it could be the Archmage, if the carving is prophetic.
5a. Kinda.
b. Not so much.
c. Yes.
6a. Both.
6b. Wyvern.
c. Like radiation? I'm not sure about that. It's the place. A nexus of power. Holy ground.
d. Maybe.
e. Yes. They were attempting to gaslight Goliath.
on august 23 you ansered someone's question about children coloring. ie- children are the color of their other-gender parent, but look like the same-gender parent. you said its not a rule, but its commonplace. then you said "Gabriel looks a bit like Coldstone with Coldfire's coloring." uhh.. did i miss something? ColdStone/Othello is grey with white hair, ColFire/Desdemona is brownsih with gold hair, and gabriel is GREEN... hes not colored like ColdFire... *blinks* or did i miss something? *laughs* i tend to do that..
Keep in mind, I'm color-blind. I know what I asked for, but I may not have gotten it.
In Avalon (part 1 0r 2, I don't remember), the Archmage says something to the extent of "the stories of the sleeping king are ture?!?"
One of the weird sisters responds "All things are true."
I don't quite understand the response. From my experience, not ALL things are true. This seems like one of those "English to English" translations.
I don't understand what an "English to English translation" means...
But she was talking of stories, and she was being loose. All stories have some basis in truth. All legends in the Gargoyles Universe certainly. That doesn't mean they are all literally true.
Did Anubis return all the lives Jackal/Anubis took(such as those crocodiles, and wipng out that town)?
He could not.
Three in a row! [laughs]
Okay, I just remembered that you had asked me to repost a question but with a little more detail. :P Sure! Why not? [chuckles]
Okay, in the episode "Upgrade," Goliath and the trio are patroling the city. "It's a quiet night," Goliath says. Guess again. The Pack are robbing a bank. Goliath and the trio swoop down to stop them. It's a hard battle, but Goliath keeps saving the trio. Helping Lex catch a current, flinging Wolf away from Brooklyn.. making it hard for the Pack to take them down. Wolf gets tired of it, and throws a device at Goliath, and it hits him right between the wings. [winces in sympathy] Electrocutes him, and then he passes out.
My question is.. how did the trio get Goliath back to the Clock Tower after he got electrocuted? He seemed unconscious, though I think he sort of moved when the trio started to help him up.
Thank you for your time. :)
They carried him.
When and how did Owen/Puck find out about the gargoyles living in the clock tower? He clearly knows by "Possession", since he knew where to find them when he was taking Coldstone to the clock tower (and also clearly knows in "Hunter's Moon Part Three" when he comments that obviously the clan wouldn't have destroyed their own home). I'm assuming that he found out from Goliath during "Future Tense" when Goliath talked about getting back to the clock tower near the beginning; am I correct on that one?
Yes.
Dear Mr. Weisman:
Sadly, because i have only seen the episodes of the gargoyles aired on Toon Disney, I have NEVER seen the episode of DEADLY FORCE because they never air it.
Supposedly it is too violent. I know this is asking for some time here, but for the sake of a fan, could you give me a very brief synapses? Pretty please with jalepenas on top???
Thanks,
aXvXia
(axe-vix-ee-uh)cool name, huh??
P.s. say hi to your kitties and puppies for me!!! ^^
**
Two cats. One dog. Hi has been said.
DEADLY FORCE (in brief):
Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa while playing with her gun. He drops her off at the hospital and then runs away, ashamed. Everyone assumes that Elisa was shot by Tony Dracon, a mob boss who she had encounted earlier. Goliath hunts down Dracon. Meanwhile Broadway goes on an anti-gun rampage that likewise leads him to Dracon. They attack, but Broadway admits that he shot Elisa to stop Goliath from killing Dracon.
Later, Broadway apologizes to Elisa for playing with her gun. Elisa apologizes for leaving it out.
An afterthought on "The Mirror": I've sometimes wondered about the fact that, during the time when all the New Yorkers are gargoyles, but Goliath and his clan haven't been changed into humans yet, nobody seems to notice that Goliath and the others are walking around the city dressed only in loincloths - not to mention Demona's own get-up. (Of course, this IS New York that we're talking about.... :)
Exactly.
Hi mr. Weisman
In Mark of The Panther, Goliath killed "Anansi". He used a spear, but was it in iron? If not, how could a spear make him disappear like that?
It wasn't iron. So Anansi wasn't killed. But it still hurt, so he reverted to a small spider to escape.
Here's a question that got lost in the crash. I posted it a LONG time ago, and I just realized that it got lost. o_O I think I posted it in May. [looks at the date] Yep. It's been a long time. :P
Okay, as I said in my previous post, my native language is Spanish, English is my second, and stuff like that. Well, first, I became a fan with the Spanish episodes first. I mean, sure, I loved the English episodes, but didn't have cable long enough to actually start taping them. [grumbles] At least the translations came along. Well, everything is different in Spanish. Goliath's voice is much less like Keith David's. I think it's done by Felipe Preciado, but I wouldn't bet on that. [laughs] Much less dramatic, let me tell you. It simply can't compare with Keith David's. His is SO dramatic, so powerful, and yet, so beautiful. [giggles]
I fell in LOVE with a cartoon character.. I mean, Goliath is SO perfect! Except for that temper, but I love him anyway! You probably found out about my love for him when you read my ramble on Goliath.. [giggles] And every word I said is true... ;)
Oops, I forgot about the question. o_O Anyway, here it goes before I forget and start talking about something else. :P
Okay, I taped the episodes in both Spanish and English, but I taped them in Spanish first. City of Stone 1 was the first I'm sure, because Demona started crying, and I totally got hooked with that scene.. it was so powerful.
Okay, so, I have the episode "Vows" in Spanish. In Spanish, it has Goliath and Demona in the Clock Tower, and they HUG. Awww... well, then my grandma got Cable again. The English episodes. USA Network. I was disappointed when I noticed that they cut out the best scenes, but at least the voices were new. I mean, they totally cut out the Keith David's narration!! I've never been able to actually see that narration in English.. [grumbles]
ANYWAY.. they aired the episodes Vows in English. Okay. so, everything seemed normal, except for the cuts, until they aired the ending. o_O It was different!! Instead of the couple being at the Clock Tower, they were in a castle! With a very bright light behind them! Well, I was beaming with joy because there was something new.
And then, Demona is left with her mouth open. I go O.O. Goliath SMILES, capes his wings around her, and brings her close. I'm like "DO IT! DO IT!" And they're about to kiss, but then they disappear into a star. [whimpers] WHY!? They were THIS close! WHY? WHY? WHY!? That was so cruel. [laughs] I wanted to see them kiss at least once. :P
Now let me put all that in a sentence. [laughs] Why are there two endings of the episode Vows? No other episode has two endings, to my knowledge anyway. [blinks, then pokes you] Are there anymore alternate endings?
You guys have done a GREAT job with the show. And you're a great guy, too. [grins] And you're cute. [snickers] Couldn't RESIST. [laughing]
That's all for now. :P
Kissing is a human custom. Gargoyles stroke hair and or brow ridges.
There are two endings because one was a mistake that we couldn't get corrected in time for its first airing. That scene was supposed to be a flashback to them embracing at the castle. Instead it mistakenly has them embracing at the clock tower, which they've never done.
In Grief why did the Emir need Xanatos?
Money, equipment, personel...
Hi Greg,
hope i didn't ask this yet.
Why do Goliath,Hudson, and Broadway look I guess upset or hard when Elisa is crying in Brother's Keeper?,Instead of looking at least compassionate, or look like they have pity for her. If not or i am totally off tract, please explain it to me.
Thanks so much!
-Tk
When does Elisa cry in "Her Brother's Keeper"?
Did a lot of people see the Gargoyles during the Times Square Battle in "Reawakening"? I know they were just barely on the evening news, but I'm talking about the large number of police officers and civillians at the scene. There were several points where the clan (especially the Trio on the car) was fighting out in the open, exposed by headlights and everything. And I could have sworn Matt saw Goliath, or at least realised that Goliath and Elisa were connected after she shouted out his name. But when the next season started, Matt still had no clue, and the Gargoyles were still generally regarded as a myth. Is that just an extreme case of good luck, or were they not as out in the open during the fight as I thought?
Less than YOU thought, clearly. Matt and Elisa weren't together after Coldstone threw that car, so he didn't make ANY connection between her and Goliath. Also, we had the broken fire-hydrant obscuring things. But Matt and Morgan and QUITE A FEW OTHER PEOPLE did see the gargs, etc.
But that wasn't the first time. There was still no proof. Matt knew what he saw, but didn't know how to pursue it. The Daily Tattler reported the sightings, but the "legit" papers wouldn't touch it for just that reason. So the public at large did not believe.
Hello! First of all, I thought I should say that I really love Gargoyles, I write role playing games and a lot of Fae concepts comes from the show. So, without further ado:
At the end of "Ill Met By Moonlight", Oberon says something like "From now on you and your clan shall be imune to all our powers" to Goliath. You have mentioned before that Oberon uses the royal "we", or "us", or "our", but says "I" if it would be confusing otherwise. This is certainly a confusing instance. I hope by "our" powers he dosn't mean the powers of all Fae? I couldn't remember if any of the clan are affected by Fae powers after Ill Met. (Unless "Future Tense" was after it?)
Just his. And of course he "bends" THAT rule all the time too.
In "The Thrill of the Hunt," Fox and Wolf were arrested when the photographer took pictures of them holding a women hostage. Don't you think that, while he was busy getting pictures, he would have taken the time to photograph Goliath too? I mean, that would seem a bit more noteworthy to me than two TV stars turning bad. Why didn't he?
I don't think he intended to photograph Fox and Wolf either. He was stunned, paralized. But his camera had an auto-shutter and he was pressing down on the button. Fox and Wolf were standing right where his models had been. So he got them on film. Goliath was out of view. The photographer didn't have the presence of mind to do anything but stand there. Rewatch the episode. I'm not making this up. That's what happened.
"METAMORPHOSIS" - a big favourite of mine.
I liked Derek after "HER BROTHER'S KEEPER"; I suppose his situation was so believable and yet immensely gripping.
But "METAMORPHOSIS" stunned me. I remember that I timed this episode for some reason - I think I'd assumed up until then that cartoons were cut to exactly 20 minutes and wanted to check it out just out of curiosity. So when I was timing it I was thinking "yeah, right - how long until he gets his cure?" Despite everything, I thought they'd suddenly turn up with a cure eventually. Of course, when my watch told me the thing had been running 19 minutes, my eyebrow raised.
The ending was incredible. I was hooked. I just had to know what happened to Talon. In fact, GMTV never showed it. Eventually I caught "THE CAGE" on the Disney Channel (which I didn't have access to when they showed the episodes first time around). In fact, I think the first episode I saw on TDC that I hadn't already seen was "THE CAGE", which pleased me. That was great too.
I think the whole business of Sevarius' death play and the serum bothered me. How on earth could they have timed it so precisely that Sevarius had his serum to smash at the same time the "Gargoyles" arrived, and that he could be sure of a good way to "die".
Well, keep in mind that the serum was phony. A test tube full of stuff could be ready at any time. And I think that hidden earpieces played a roll. We assumed that Lex got them into Gen-U-Tech without being spotted, but that's unlikely.
Just think about it. It's not as hard to time it as it might seem.
A very close observation always reveals an error,
(of course with Gargoyles this is a rare occasion):
At the end of CITY OF STONE part four, when the whole clan is watching the steel clan blow up and the sky is burning, When we see the feet of the clan, I saw an ankle braclet on a gargoyle (I think it was Goliath). As it is before Angela was even heard of, it can't be her and Demona was taken away by the Weird sisters. Is it an animation glitch or did one of the gargoyles go mad and think he was a female or something.
Males can wear anklets. But what color was the gargoyle?
Temptation> While this may pale at getting a body-bagged corpse through, don't Goliath and Demona go through a plate glass window in the course of their fight? I've been told that is, for want of a better term, a big no-no in children's television.
Generally, it is. I remember that we had a big discussion about it. I don't remember how we got it through.
Greg,
Read your "Temptation" Ramble, and there were a few things that I would love to point out about that episode.
First off: I loved the leather jacket and HOW brooklyn folded his wings under his arms. He really did look good in that episode. ^_^
Second: The bike. It was a cool bike! BUT, the bikers when they see it say: "Cool Hog." Now, okay people who don't know much about motorcycles would refer to any bike as a hog, but these Biker's would know better. A Hog is a Harley Davidson...and Lex's creation looked nothing like a Harley. I dunno if that was you, or somebody else. But oh well, it was still a cool bike.
Third: The spell. Now Elisa says: "I want you to act, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, as if you weren't under a spell." Wouldn't that in sense nullify some future spells on the big guy? I mean sure, Puck's spell worked well, cause he still ACTED like he wasn't under a spell. Were you maybe planning on keeping with this for future continuity?
oh, and I LOVE your little analizations (sp?) of the episodes. It really lets us get more into your head, and into the world of the Gargoyles.
The 'hog' reference was ultimately my responsibility. (Obviously, I know next to nothing about motorcycles.) Though Michael and Brynne Reaves (the story editor and writer) can share some of the blame.
As for the spell, it would have to be a case-by-case thing. But most spells would not be affected.
Hello, Greg! In "City of Stone: Part 4" MacBeth was going to throw Demona over the bridge in Xanatos' castle in the selarium, but Goliath talked MacBeth out of it. By doing this, Goliath saved both Demona and MacBeth's lives. Now, Goliath could have gotten rid of 2 of his biggest enemies, but he convinced MacBeth that "Death is never the answer, life is." This is proof that Goliath still has feelings for Demona. He could have easily let MacBeth kill her if he didn't love her, but he still does. SO......my question to you is -- this is proof that Goliath still loves, or at least still has feelings for Demona, I am correct?? Please let me know, Greg. I really appreciate it!! :)
I hate to encourage you. Because frankly Goliath would have said the same thing to Macbeth if Mac had been threatening to kill Xanatos or Tony Dracon or anybody. (By the way, Macbeth wasn't threatening to throw Demona off the bridge. He was threatening to impale her on a jagged piece of metal debris that had fallen from one of the upper floors.)
On the other hand, I never denied that Goliath still has strong feelings for and about Demona. When they finally capture her in "The Reckoning" he won't consider killing her. But what I do deny, is the notion that he still loves her romantically. That ended decisively with "Vows". But theirs is a complex relationship. And feelings don't go away, don't vanish. They simply alter with time and experience.
Hello again!
A question about "Deadly Force": my sister watched this show the first time it aired(I was at class, ugh:), and she is certain that in the scene where Broadway put Elisa on the gurney outside the hospital, she saw a quick shot of Broadway's hands, from his POV, covered with blood(right after he raises his hands and gasps). She didn't record the ep, and the next time it aired, the scene seemed to have been cut. Was there such a scene, that got cut out due to being too graphic?
In any event, I thought it was a great episode as far as stressing gun safety. I have a pro-gun friend who HATES the ep, though. He insists that it's "anti-gun". Was that the message you intended? I didn't think it was anti-gun, personally...
I don't think anything was cut, but we may have down the blood in retakes. I know we did in the scene that ends act one, with Elisa lying on the floor.
I think it was more pro-gun-responsibility than anti-gun. Goliath uses a gun. Elisa has good reason to have one.
On the other hand, I won't pretend that it was PRO-gun. It was designed to give kids a healthy fear and respect for firearms. I'm not sure how ANYONE could object to that. But I'm sure Charleton Heston could find a way.
I just re-watched "Vows" on Toon Disney last night and I have two questions:
1. When and how did the Xanatos time loop begin?
2. If the loop had never existed, would Demona have become so evil and betrayed the clan?
1. It's circular. It doesn't begin, it loops. Otherwise, it depends on your point of view.
2. Everything's part of the whole. I don't know how to remove pieces of the tapestry and answer how things would have gone without them.
Not to beat a dead horse, but as I'm sure you can ALL see, I'm not too fond of hypothetical questions.
Hello,
This is in response to your 'Leader of the Pack' memo. I noticed that the writer must have had a scene where the gargs' stone shards dissolve, because in the memo you mend it. However, I think that there may have been something there.
Don't misinterpret me. You know your series better than anyone else, yet it seems like a dissolving method would've been a good way to tie up the plot hole of what happens to all those stone shards.
What if the stone simply went into "hyper-rusting," where it loses cohesion over the course of the next few hours and eventually crumbles to dust, and is then swept away by the wind? Since the gargs usually perch on high places, the winds would even help in the break-down process. If not wind, then rain would accomplish the same thing.
This wouldn't conflict with "The Price" because Hudson uses a fresh stone shard. It hasn't had time to breakdown. And as for "Hunter's Moon," well, there are always inconsistencies in nature. It was just the little shard that could.
(Incidentally, it DID seem as if "The Price" was out-of-order. Not because of any detail or clue, but just the feel. It didn't seem to fit as the last ep before "Avalon." Moreover, if it aired AFTER the World Tour, as I presume it should have, that really would've helped with that section of the series - it was a bit thin ep-wise. And of course there's the way Xanatos' quest for immortality is confronted and pulled into question, and then shown progressing normally later on in the World Tour. Still, the episode is one of the best, no matter where it was positioned.)
"The Price" wasn't THAT far out of order. It was definitely designed to air before "Avalon" and the World Tour. It originally aired even earlier. So that a couple episodes where Owen's hand was still flesh aired AFTER "The Price." But since Owen's hand was stone during "Kingdom", it's obvious that "The Price" wasn't meant to come after that. And therefore couldn't have taken place anytime after "Avalon". And your point about Xanatos' quest completely escapes me.
As for your dissolving shard theory, I never said that the shards were impervious to wind and weather. I just said they don't instantaneously start to dissolve. And they don't. Not in my Gargoyles Universe.
I thought that I'd ask you a question about Goliath's decision in "Awakening Part One" to just take Hudson with him instead of the entire clan when he went to pursue the Vikings. What is your stance on his motivation? Many fans of the series have different opinions on it. Some, such as myself, see it as simple "sound strategy" - that, as Goliath had said, it would be dangerous leaving the castle unguarded by any gargoyles while he was out driving the Vikings away from the castle. Others saw it as arrogance and overconfidence, citing his attitude that he could scare the Vikings away without any help. I thought that I'd ask you what your personal take is on this.
1. I think it was fairly sound strategy on the assumption that you don't have traitors in your midst. As demonstrated in Awakening Part Two, it doesn't take a hell of a lot of gargoyles to route those Vikings. And Goliath's plan wasn't to route them but to scare them off. He and Hudson were probably enough. Not that there wasn't a risk involved, but I hardly would call it arrogance.
Obviously it was the wrong choice, but only because the duo who suggested the "scare" tactic were in fact planning to betray the castle.
Alright, in Hunters Moon, my personal favorite episode, Demona almost unleashed a magical disease that would have killed all sentience. Gargoyles would be immune to it's effects thanks to the Praying Gargoyle.
Now we all know Goliath smashed the statue and saved the world. But what if this was not the case...
1. All humans would have died. Macbeth is obviously human. Would this not have qualified as death at Demona's hands, thus killing Demona (oops)?
2. If not, would she fall prey to it when she turned into human form? How would this work?
3. Would this spread to Avalon and/or the isle of the New Olympians?
4. How would it affect... Oberon's Children?
5. ...New Olympians?
6. ...Gargoyle clones?
7. Any other effects?
Thanks for your time. Love your rambles, by the way, look forward to next season's rambles.
More hypothetical questions... YAY!
1. I've answered this many times before. Try looking through the Demona or Macbeth archives. Briefly, it would depend on Demona's intent.
2. I'm sure she thought she was safe.
3. No reason why it wouldn't spread to New Olympus. No reason why it would spread to Avalon.
4. Potentially not at all.
5. Kill most of them probably.
6. Not at all.
7. Anyone who asks hypothetical questions based on untread pathes would die. :)
In the mirror, Elisa looks in the mirror and when she hears
Demona, she looks away. But her reflection stays the same.
Is this because of the magic possessed by the mirror, or is
it an animation glitch?
The former.
Ooooooh, thought myself up a couple of questions. I was thinking, Puck... he always seems to be one step ahead of everybody, with the possible exception of Titania <who I don't know if *anyone* is more clever than>. I mean, one step ahead of Oberon in The Gathering, Demona in The Mirror. Probably one of the most clever beings in the show, with more secrets than most. I'm sure he has a bag full of em more.
I mean, he did the whole Goliath being lost for 40 years, when it would've actually been Brooklyn for Timedancer, I doubt its a freak chance. To me, this shows him being one step ahead. Xanatos naming his son Alexander <though given he could've confided in Owen ahead of time>. Thailog dying in the "Clone Wars", if that wasn't an outright finger pointing at the amusement park clone episode, I don't know what is.
So my question.....
Sure... Puck wanted to get the Pheonix Gate from Goliath. But given that he seems to have more knowledge than most of the future<putting his own fun spins on it>....
1) Did Puck mind that Goliath threw the Gate in the Time Portal?
2) Did Puck intend the Gate for that ultimate destination in the first place?
3) If 2 is no.... Was one of Pucks reasons for trying to snag the gate from Goliath, Just so he could try and cheat the time paradox of where the Gate was supposed to ultimate end up<being lost>?
and last but not least....
4) Did Puck have any encounters with a Timedancing Brooklyn in his past? <that would explain *so* much>
Thanks for answering the questions. Or giving smart ass responses, either or, thanks for taking the time to read em.
~puck40
1. Yes. I know it would be "cool" if that was ALL part of Puck's plan, but I don't want to undercut FUTURE TENSE itself.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Maybe...
Nope..still not done yet..
Ok, I put this in a separate post _just_ in case.
1) Could you tell us what the episode, "Ransom" would have been like if you had had more control over it?
I put this in a separate post cuz..as you may notice you have answered this one from me before. I admit that. Its just that when you did it was awful vague. I was just wondering if right now you could tell us something more besides, "It was pretty much the same plot except the kidnappers were from Avalon." Ok they were from Avalon?
2) Would we have seen these characters in any episodes after Ransom?
We never saw Puck in TGC. But im SURE Alex getting kidnapped would have warrented a Puck episode;)
3) Would Puck have been the first one to know and not his parents?
Everyone got together trying to figure out how to go about getting Alex back
4) In the ep you had planned, would it have been more of a Puck/Lex teamup?
5) Where would've the mystery characters from Avalon taken our lil prince?
U know..Q's like that?
Pulezz?;)
1. Is that quotation an actual quotation or a paraphrase? I can't imagine that's what I wrote. It certainly was never going to be the same plot. It was a Tricksters story. Initially it was to include Owen/Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote. Plus Lex and the Family Xanatos. I think as time has gone on, I would have dropped Anansi and Coyote from this one. Focused more on Raven as the Trickster/Villain. Saved the multi-Trickster episode for another story.
2. In that season or ever?
3. Uh, I don't pretend to have every little detail worked out. I never actually wrote the story, I simply proposed it. They took a kernel of it and turned it into Ransom.
4. Probably.
5. Don't know.
I'm not sure when I'll get around to viewing the next episode of Gargoyles with my family, but I thought I'd get ready to ramble by posting my November, '94 memo to story editor Cary Bates. This was Cary's first Gargoyles script, so he was still new to the characters, which was one of the reasons he started with a single gargoyle story. Just Broadway, Elisa and a little Matt, basically.
You'll notice in what follows that some of the big twists still weren't present at this stage. We just hadn't cracked it fully yet. As I recall, Development Associate Eddie Guzelian suggested making the OLD MAN into Dominic Dracon. I was probably resistant a bit at first, just because of how much work that change would involve. But we all realized that Eddie's idea made the story much, much better. So the change was made...
Anyway, here's the memo, unedited as usual:
WEISMAN 11-7-94
Notes on "The Silver Falcon" Outline...
GENERAL CONCERNS
My main problem is that as a mystery story, this is a bit of a dud. We want to stump our audience, but here, we're cheating to do it. There's no way they could figure out where the diamonds are. We don't show them any options but the red herring. And if we did show them the true location, the answer becomes too obvious, and frankly not tricky enough. There's a silver falcon gargoyle on top of the speakeasy. There's another on top of the building across from Malone's office. We check both. One has it. One doesn't.
We need a double entendre here somewhere. We're looking for a silver falcon, and it turns out to be something that isn't literally that. Or in this case, Malone is being literal -- the jewels are in the silver falcon across from his office. But for most of the episode, we're looking for a more obscure answer, i.e. the speakeasy itself. Best not to have a literal silver falcon gargoyle in the vault at the speakeasy.
Even so, it's pretty straightforward. So let's make the whole situation more mysterious. Let's not learn what Matt was up to quite so fast. Let's not have Elisa be a Mace Malone expert. Let's not learn about the loot at all until act three. Let's misdirect more.
We also need secondary suspects. I suggest the Illuminati. That's the name of the Secret Society that Matt's always going on about. It'll be a huge red herring, if even Matt thought he was investigating the Illuminati, when in truth he stumbled on something considerably more mundane. For us, this would accomplish two goals. One, it misdirects Broadway, Elisa and the audience. Two, it sets us up for a future story where we actually use the Illuminati.
THEME
You get major points here. The theme is partnership, and it's presented clearly. Let's just give it more of an arc. Elisa doesn't have to be thrilled to have Sam Broadway Spade as a partner at first. She learns to appreciate the back-up.
S&P
You need to start thinking about the Audience you're writing for. Vogel's murder in the other premise, was never gonna fly. Likewise, here, a major clue revolving around alcohol consumption is definitely out. I wouldn't be afraid to do a story about alcohol, if we were really going to focus on that issue, but not as a throw away.
BROADWAY
Don't make him or his rookery brothers too young. They can have the occasional childlike response, but don't overdue it. Showing them enjoying a cartoon is one thing. Generalizing that they always are watching cartoons makes them sound like kids. Think of 19 or 20 year old Viet Nam Vets. These guys are warriors.
Also, when he's stone, Broadway is WAY TOO HEAVY for Elisa to budge.
And as flesh, Broadway getting shot is like anybody getting shot. Fatal. Or maybe he'd just bleed to death before sunrise. Even if sunrise were close, without surgery to remove the bullets, he wouldn't heal. Basically, what I'm getting at is that the gargoyles are NOT invulnerable.
DRACON AND GLASSES
Dracon is young and hungry. He's tough, violent, savvy, sarcastic. It's not that he can't get angry, but please resist the temptation to show him throwing temper-tantrums -- ranting (and whining) like a cliché d foiled villain.
He's got money, but he doesn't have the high-tech resources of a Xanatos. We have to be sparing with our use of that stuff. Which does not mean we can have massive gun battles with real bullets. (For S&P reasons.)
And if Dracon is not Xanatos, Glasses is not Owen. Glasses shouldn't quietly clear his throat so that he can feed his boss a plan. It's not that Glasses is stupid, but he's not the brains behind the organization either. He's an aggressive, tough and violent street thug in expensive clothes.
Let's also keep clear on Dracon's motivations and how they differ from Elisa's. He wants the loot, but he doesn't want to have to flee to South America with it. He's crossed the line by kidnapping two cops. He's going to have to kill them.... So he frees Elisa to follow her to the diamonds? Major problems all around. 1) Why does he think Elisa will be able to find them? 2) Why does he think she's even going to try after she's freed her partner? She has no motivation for finding the loot. She's a cop who's out to save her partner and bust the guy who kidnapped them both. (It's not that I don't buy her being curious. But that can wait until after Dracon is in custody.) 3) After she drops Matt off at her place, why don't Dracon's men sneak in and kill the unconscious detective? After all, they can't let him live. What are they waiting for? For him to wake up and come take them out? Etc.
Also, blowing up Matt's apartment is cool, but it has to feel like more of a last resort. Dracon doesn't want to draw any more attention to Matt's disappearance than necessary.
And, please note in your script that Dracon has a white streak in his hair from his previous encounter with the gargoyles.
CHAVEZ & BLUESTONE
Please do not play Maria as a callous boss, who doesn't care that one of her detectives has gone missing for two days. And yes, Matt's into secret society's and the like, but he's not the type to blow off work for two days in a row. Despite Matt's paranoia/hobby, he's a good partner and a good cop, someone that Elisa and Maria can count on.
On the other hand, Matt isn't psychic. He's seen gargoyles at a distance, but he knows nothing about them. Certainly, he has no idea of Elisa's connection to them. There's no way he'd casually decide that a "gargoyle" helped them crack a case. Why would it?
And we must resist the constant temptation to knock Matt out so that he doesn't find out the truth. We don't need it here. So I cut the drugged sleep.
HACKER
Let's change Hacker into a real character that we might want to re-use later. An FBI agent who used to be Matt's partner before Matt was booted out of the bureau for investigating the Illuminati Society. The bureau doesn't officially acknowledge the Illuminati's existence. (All this will be a revelation to Elisa. She didn't know Matt had ever been in the bureau. Her surprise about this will add to the general feeling of mystery in the story.) Matt is persona non grata with the FBI, and Agent Smith (or whatever) can no longer be seen with him, which explains the clandestine meeting.
LIBRARY
For future reference, the library is the other face of the same building that houses the twenty-third police precinct, above which is the clock tower where the gargoyles live. The library is closed at nights, and Goliath often reads down there. But I've cut the library scene, so it doesn't matter here.
BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Make the setting someplace other than a slaughterhouse, but otherwise MATT's kidnapping can play pretty much the way you had it.
2. Two days later at ELISA's place. BROADWAY is there to watch his video of the detective movie, (because Hudson is sick of him playing it over and over again on the tv set at the clock tower). Elisa gets a phone call from CHAVEZ. (Intercut.) Matt took some personal time to investigate Bigfoot or something. But he hasn't checked back in 48 hours, which isn't like him. And there's no answer at his place. Elisa hasn't heard from him either. This isn't good. Elisa's going to check on him on her way to work. Chavez makes Elisa promise to call for back-up if there's any trouble. Elisa says, yeah, sure, whatever.... (But she doesn't really think she needs any help.) Broadway overhears and wants to come along. He'll act as her back-up, her partner until she solves the mystery of the missing Matt. But Elisa's got one partner already. She doesn't need two. She'll handle this alone.
3. Matt's apartment. Elisa's outside Matt's door. She rings bell, knocks, calls for him. What she doesn't know is that the place has already been ransacked and that the ransack-er, a man dressed all in black and wearing a black SKI-MASK, is still inside. Plus another, bigger man in a trench coat and slouch hat (think Ben Grimm) is out on Matt's small terrace/balcony. (We should momentarily think these two men are working together -- the man on the balcony acting as look-out for Mr. Ski-Mask inside, but in reality, Ski-Mask is one of Dracon's men, and the guy on the balcony is Broadway. So in fact, Ski-Mask is unaware of Broadway's presence.) Elisa reaches above the door and finds Matt's spare key on the molding. She does not take out her gun. She is not expecting trouble. But inside, as she unlocks the door, Ski-Mask has his gun out and ready. Which is more than enough justification for Broadway to rip the terrace door right off and reveal himself, in a decidedly monstrous fashion. (NOTE: He does not crash through the glass!!) The clothes he's wearing should increase the scare factor, not make him look silly. By the time Elisa gets the door open, the terrified thug is pushing right past her and high-tailing it down the empty hallway with Broadway (who pauses only to say "Got you covered, partner") in close pursuit.
Ski-Mask makes it to the waiting elevator, and the doors close before Broadway can get to them. But Broadway pulls the elevator doors open and grabs the moving cable, which strains against him, until the elevator stops. Then he leaps down (about a flight) onto the roof of the elevator, shaking it's occupant. He rips open the trap door and yanks the guy up. By the time a stunned Elisa gets to the elevator, she barely misses getting hit by the flying thug whom Broadway has tossed out of the shaft. Ski-Mask crashes into the corridor wall and is temporarily knocked out.
Broadway climbs out of the shaft only to face the wrath of...ELISA. She definitely isn't pleased. But she's not going to fight with Broadway out in the open. They'll discuss things privately, in Matt's apartment. She indicates the thug. "Better bring him too."
Inside Matt's place, Elisa searches the thug, while she verbally chews Broadway out for interfering. She removes the ski-mask, but she doesn't recognize the guy. She does find a page that the thug clearly ripped from Matt's calendar with today's date, a time and a specific location (just saying Central Park isn't enough, it's a big park). Ski-Mask starts to come to just as Broadway suggests checking Matt's computer to see if they can find any info there. The thug panics, tipping Elisa off that the thug had rigged the computer to blow. She tries to stop Broadway from flipping the switch, but it's too late.
Cut to outside Matt's window. There is a brief high-pitch whine, during which Broadway leaps out holding both Elisa and the thug -- and then BOOM!! The force of the explosion propels them across the gap to another lower rooftop. (Broadway can't spread his wings because of his trench coat.) They land hard. Broadway drops both humans and the momentum nearly takes him over the roof. Elisa helps him up, and by the time they turn around, the thug has split.
Now Elisa is really ticked off. But Broadway points out that he did just save her life. Only after creating the dangerous situation in the first place, Elisa reminds him. Broadway's embarrassed, but tenacious. Look, it's obvious that Matt was working alone and got into something way over his head. If Elisa tries to handle this alone, the same thing could happen to her. We get tight on Elisa. What will she decide?
4. Elisa arrives alone at the meeting described on the page from Matt's calendar. She cautiously approaches a man, who turns out to be Matt's ex-partner from the FBI, AGENT SMITH (or whatever). It's tense at first, but once Elisa identifies herself, Agent Smith is very cooperative. Matt's told him that Elisa is all right. A good partner. (Elisa's a little embarrassed.)
So Smith fills her in. As usual, Matt's been trying to prove the existence of the Illuminati Society. He's been investigating a gangster from the 1920's who was rumored to have ties to the Illuminati and vanished mysteriously on March 22, 1924. Matt had found a letter, that he wanted Smith to authenticate. The letter was hand-written on Malone's pre-printed stationary:
MACE MALONE
3150 Third Avenue #45D, New York
March 21, 1924
D.D.,
Our little Society is turning a nice profit.
Everyday I see the Silver Falcon, I smile. You
would too, if you knew what I knew.
Your Senior Partner (and don't you forget it),
Mace
The ink and paper do date from the 20s and the signature checks out too. The letter is legit. But where did Matt get it? Smith doesn't know. What's the Silver Falcon? Smith doesn't know. Who's "D.D."? Smith doesn't know.
Smith isn't happy to hear that Matt is missing. If he can help Elisa in any way.... But Elisa insists she can handle it from here. So Smith takes off. Elisa stands there examining the letter. She seems to be talking to herself. The only real lead it offers is Malone's address, but what good could it be 70 years later.
And Elisa may never find out. Suddenly, we discover that Elisa is surrounded by three BAD GUYS, led by Ski-Mask. It looks bad.
ACT TWO
5. Elisa calls out: "Broadway, NOW!!" And Broadway comes out from wherever he's been hiding and takes out two of the thugs. But Ski-Mask hops into a getaway car that pulls up fast and takes off faster. Elisa handcuffs the two unconscious thugs to something, but she's worried. She doesn't know if the escaped thug heard her talking about Malone's old address. They have to get there before the Illuminati blow it up like they did Matt's apartment. Broadway sweeps her up and they're off.
6. 3150 Third Avenue. 45th floor. Elisa's inside. Broadway watches from the roof. (We need to somehow establish that Elisa and Broadway both might have seen the Falcon-heads across the street -- and yet we need to do it in a way that doesn't immediately tip off our audience. One thing that would help is if the chrome falcons were now literally black with NYC soot and grime.)
There's a light on in 45D. An OLD MAN answers Elisa's knock. He's an accountant, working late. She realizes it's a long shot, but wonders if he knows anything about Mace Malone. Turns out that he's something of a Mace Malone buff. That's why he rented this particular office. He's got Mace's original desk and everything. Here, sit down.
Mace's mysterious disappearance makes him a curiosity, and every once in a while someone stops by and asks questions. Why just the other day, that nice red-headed boy was here. Elisa realizes he's talking about Matt. What did the old man tell Matt? Nothing. He ran out of here, as soon as he saw the picture. What picture? This one. It's an old photograph of Malone and a couple of other men (at least one of which is Dracon's grandfather) in front of a non-descript building. Does the old man know where this was taken? Sure, that's Malone's old speakeasy, the Silver Falcon. He gives Elisa the same lower east side address he had given to Matt, and the same caveat... the Falcon was torn down ages ago, they built something else there. Elisa thanks him as she ushers him out of his own office. It's temporarily unsafe here. She asks him to call Chavez and fill her in on everything he told Elisa and Matt, (and also about the two hand-cuffed thugs). She's heading straight to the lower eastside, as the crow flies, so to speak.
7. Elisa and Broadway arrive at the scene-one location where we last saw Matt. They soon discover GLASSES and his salvage operation. He's clearly digging for something, but what? Matt is there. Tied up and blind-folded. But before they can get near him, Broadway's weight collapses the wooden staircase, and they're discovered. A brief battle ensues. Glasses and his MEN use their semi-hi-tech construction equipment as make-shift weapons. Plus maybe a stick of dynamite or something. There's a cave-in that buries Elisa and Broadway. Glasses turns to Matt and taunts him. So much for the cavalry, Bluestone -- That was your partner. And she's dead.
8. Cut to a small cavity, with-in the cave-in. It's pitch black except for Broadway's glowing eyes. Elisa asks Broadway if he's o.k. He says he is but his voice is clearly straining. As she fumbles for her pocket flashlight, Elisa points out that there can't be much air in here. Will Broadway be able to use his claws to dig them out? Broadway has a couple of problems with that. The main one being that he's starting to feel real tired and that can only mean one thing. What? But Broadway is strangely silent and his eyes stop glowing. Elisa finally clicks on her flashlight and looks. Broadway's frozen in stone.
ACT THREE
9. Outside, the sun has come up on a new day. Inside the cavity, Elisa realizes that when the cave-in occurred, Broadway acted as a living pillar, straining under the weight of a lot of rock and dirt, protecting them both from being buried alive. Now he stands there frozen like a medieval column. There isn't anything she can do but start digging.
10. Out in the main cave, Matt convinces Glasses to try and dig Elisa out. She's probably dead anyway, but she might have Malone's letter. If she does, Glasses' boss can stop looking for it. Glasses isn't dumb. He knows that Matt is simply trying to save his partner, but he can't deny Matt's sound logic regarding the letter, so he sets his men working.
11. Dissolve to a short while later. Glasses' men are getting close to Elisa, who's dug a little of the way out but is running out of air. She can hear them getting close, and she can't let them find Broadway in his vulnerable state. So to protect him, she pulls down one of the rocks above her own little dugout, and allows herself to be buried alive. Fortunately, she's timed it right. Glasses digs her out, but to all appearances, she's lucky to be alive and the guy in the trench coat is still buried under all that rock. She has Malone's letter. So the guy can stay buried.
Finally, DRACON arrives with the Ski-Mask guy from Matt's apartment and the old man from Mace's old office. Ski-Mask got to the old man before he could call Chavez, so there's no help on the way. (And Elisa realizes that the few minutes it would have cost her to call Chavez herself would have been well worth it.)
Dracon's fairly annoyed that Glasses hasn't finished digging through to the vault yet. Glasses explains the delay and produces the letter. But Dracon, shakes his head. We don't have to worry about someone else getting the letter, if we already have the loot. Dig out that vault!!
Loot? Vault? Dracon? What's going on? Matt fills Elisa in. Malone's letter didn't refer to the Illuminati at all, but to a bank robbing syndicate that included both Malone and Dracon's grandfather, Dominic Dracon (aka D.D.). Malone disappeared before he got around to telling Dominic where the loot from all their heists was. But the letter suggests that it might be here at the speakeasy. It wasn't found when the place was demolished decades ago, so Tony is convinced that there must have been an underground vault.
But how did Matt get involved? Matt had found the letter, among the younger Dracon's papers when Dracon was arrested months ago for grand theft. (Dracon's case is still pending. He's out on bail.) Matt investigated on his own, thinking he was on the trail of the Illuminati, and accidentally stumbled on this. Dracon kept him alive, because they wanted to make sure the letter was out of circulation. They didn't want anyone else stumbling on their little operation, before they had the loot. Matt apologizes for not keeping his partner up to speed. He really screwed up by acting alone.
Finally, Glasses hits pay dirt. There is a vault. Soon, they're burning through that. They break through. And inside... nothing. Nothing but a note:
Sorry, D.D.
Guess again.
Mace
Dracon is furious. But Elisa's not surprised. If the loot had been there, Dominic would have found it when he first received the letter seventy years ago. He must have been pretty confident it was here, or he wouldn't have gotten rid of Mace the day he received the letter. Dracon's a bit embarrassed by Elisa's superior powers of deductive reasoning. Embarrassed enough to tell Glasses to "take care of" the three hostages. But Elisa stays their hands by telling them she's figured out where the loot is hidden. Dracon demands to know where. But Elisa's not dumb. If she tells now, then she, Matt and the Old Man are wormfood. She's willing to take Dracon there. But it's pretty public, they'll have to wait until after dark, and we push in on the mound of dirt where Broadway is buried.
12. Let's indicate some passage of time here. The sun sets. Then we return to the underground chamber. No one's there at all. Broadway bursts from the cave in. He's panicked about Elisa. He finds Mace's second note and reads it with great difficulty. Will he figure everything out?
13. In a helicopter above the city, Dracon, Glasses and Ski-Mask are escorting Elisa, Matt and the old man to the roof of the building opposite Malone's old office. Matt whispers a warning: "They'll kill us as soon as you show them where the loot is." But Elisa says, "Don't worry, I've called for back-up. I think."
The building's too old to be equipped with a heli-pad, but Glasses manages to get close enough to allow Dracon and Elisa to jump onto the roof. Once on the roof, Elisa explains that from Malone's desk across the street, you can see these black bird-heads. And sure enough when she wipes the grime of seventy years away, she reveals the silver-like chrome beneath. Dracon probably has to check a couple heads, before finding the little bag of precious jewels that Mace had the bank loot converted to.
Now all Dracon has to do is get rid of his trio of hostages. He invites Elisa to step off the side of the building. And to his surprise she does.
Of course, she did it because she had already spotted Broadway, who catches her. (He didn't know anything about the loot or Dominic Dracon. But Mace's 2nd note invited "D.D." to guess again. The falcons on this building were the only other place Broadway could think of to check out. He's just glad he guessed right and that he was in time.)
Ultimately, Broadway takes out the chopper, without revealing himself to Matt or the old man. With Matt's help, Glasses, Ski-Mask and Dracon are all taken down. (This can all play largely as you had it.)
Matt thanks his partner Elisa for pulling his fat out of the fire.
14. And in the TAG at the clock tower, Elisa thanks her partner Broadway for doing the same.
That's it. Call me if you have any questions.
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.
It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]
But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.
On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.
At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)
Family Reactions #1
During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.
Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.
"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.
Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.
Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.
I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?
I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?
Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.
I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.
We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?
Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."
As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.
Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.
Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.
And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.
Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.
Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.
I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....
Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)
Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.
Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]
Ben then asked why she was transformed.
Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.
Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.
KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!
Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.
Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!
But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]
I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."
FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.
Cool little touches:
Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.
She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.
Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.
Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.
Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.
Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.
Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.
FAMILY REACTION #4
Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."
More sappy stuff (which I love):
Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."
Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.
That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.
Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.
Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.
In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.
But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.
I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.
GOT SOME GOOD NEWS & BAD NEWS...
Bad news first, due to a family health crisis, storyboard artist Brad Rader will not be able to attend the Gathering next week.
But, the Good News: Storyboard Artist Victor Cook has stepped up to take his place. Vic worked on a good quarter of the series' second season including:
The Silver Falcon
Eye of the Beholder
Outfoxed
The Price
Avalon, Part Two
Golem
Sanctuary
Mark of the Panther
Bushido
Ill Met By Moonlight
The Reckoning
Possession
Hunter's Moon, Part Three
Specifically -- and among other things -- Vic designed the unique "Tale of the Panther Queen" Sequence in MARK OF THE PANTHER.
I'm sorry Brad won't be able to make it (we'll get him next year in L.A.), but I'm very pleased to announce that Vic Cook will be joining Character Designer Greg Guler, Voice Actor Thom "Lexington" Adcox and myself at the Gathering. Attending the San Diego ComicCon only wet my appetite for "the real thing". I can't wait.
What's the Emir's real name?
Why do you want to know?
Can you put some info about episodes "The Journey" and "Hunter's Moon"? I never saw those episodes.
Uh, I guess so, though it seems to me that there are faster ways to get this "info" than waiting over two months for me to respond.
SPOILERS
"Hunter's Moon" was a three-parter. It introduced the modern-day decendents of the Canmore Clan, revealing that they were still hunting Gargoyles and Demona specifically. Demona meanwhile, was trying to destroy the human race using magic she had stolen centuries earlier. The Gargoyles and Elisa were in the middle of this costly conflict. Angela was nearly killed. Elisa briefly acquired a new romantic interest. The clock tower was destroyed. And Goliath was consumed by a very Demona-like need for vengeance. In the end, humanity was saved. One of the Canmores was arrested. Another was left a paraplegic. The third went nuts. Demona escaped. The gargoyles were caught on tape and revealed to the world. Xanatos invited them to return to the castle.
"The Journey" picks up shortly after the end of "Hunter's Moon". Goliath is bumming that humanity still has it in for the Gargs. A new threat has surfaced: THE QUARRYMEN. Led by John Castaway, this group is determined to wipe gargoyles off the map. Goliath goes to see Elisa. He's injured, and he and Elisa are forced to cross the city atop rooftops, while the Quarrymen pursue. One Quarryman, VINNIE (from "Vendettas") has a change of heart and holds Castaway off long enough for Goliath and Elisa to triumph.
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