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tomas lund writes...

when did gargoyles originate and where did they originate

Greg responds...

Pre-history, and I'm honestly not sure where.

Response recorded on January 11, 2007

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Laura 'ad astra' Sack writes...

I should be posting on the new dvd releases, I mean I (figuratively) ran out and got them the day they released, (a more literal description would be I preordered on Amazon), but I am ashamed to say I haven't rewatched them yet. Instead I'll ask about the new comics coming out through Slave Labor Graphics, for which I am waiting with bated breath-

Looking through comments already made and the questions waiting to be answered que I see you plan on starting from your last episode, though not making a big point of it. (Just as you said you would if you could make new episodes.) You also were reported as saying that Disney is aware that the comics will squew slightly older than the original main demographic. You were also reported as still being wary of doing a 9/11 related issue. I was wondering if your thoughts had at all changed on the matter. {If you are currently 2 years behind in Ask Greg, but are starting the comics at 1996, that gives time to answer.}

I am sorry if this question has already been asked. The search engine would not allow me to search for "9/11". Or any numeric queries for that matter. I tried other queries like "September" and "center", but I may have not thought of all possibilties.

thank you,
Laura A

Greg responds...

I am beyond wary about tackling 9/11. But I'll have to eventually. Just not yet. I'm now plotting issue #7, so things might change slightly, but issues 1-9 are all set in 1996. I won't even get to early 1997 until issue number 10.

But when the series gets to September of 2001, I will indeed deal. Can't not. But I'll admit it scares the hell out of me.

Response recorded on December 29, 2006

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dph writes...

Could you please list the following events in chronological order:

1)Oberon overthrew Queen Maeve
2)in reference to City of Stone part 4 in the scene where Bodhe says the English rid their land of gargoyles years ago, the point in time in which the English thought they rid themselves of gargoyles
3)Merlin was born
4)Oberon married Titania
5)Atlantis fell
6)Last Member of the Lost Race died
7)Goliath, Angela, Bronx, and Elisa meet Nokkar

Thank you for answering this question.

Greg responds...

5.
3.
1. Although it's Mab in our continuity, not Maeve.
4.
7.

2 & 6 I'm choosing not to reveal at this time.

Response recorded on December 21, 2006

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FYI

Appropos of nothing, I thought you'd like to know that my current draft of the "Gargoyles Universe Timeline" is 272 pages long and runs from 9386 B.C.E. to March 22nd, 2198. (And I know about some stuff that happens both before and after that range, but not with precision as to the dates.)

272 pages!


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DPH writes...

Will you please give us approximate dates for when Goliath & Elisa arrived at the various points on the world tour?

Greg responds...

All of them...?

Greedy, much?

<sigh>

Let's see. I'll do it 'til I'm worn out.

Goliath, Elisa & Bronx first arrived...

--on Avalon on December 28, 1995.

Goliath, Elisa, Bronx & Angela first arrived...

--at Wyvern on January 1, 1996;

--on Queen Florence Island on January 3, 1996;

--at Loch Ness on January 16, 1996;

--in Prague on January 19, 1996;

--in Paris on January 21, 1996;

--in London on January 23, 1996;

--in Egypt on January 25, 1996;

--in Ireland on January 27, 1996;

--in Australia on May 1, 1996;

--in Nigeria on May 16, 1996;

--in Norway on May 19, 1996;

--on New Olympus on May 22, 1996;

--in Guatelmala on May 24, 1996;

--on Rapa Nui on June 10, 1996;

--in Ishimura on June 14, 1996;

--in Arizona on June 16, 1996;

--in Tibet on June 18, 1996;

--for the final time on Avalon on July 4th, 1996,

--and back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996.

Gee, guess I have more stamina than I thought.

Response recorded on August 18, 2006

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CHRONOLOGY REVISED

CHRONOLOGY REVISED

In the wake of completing the script to issue #3 of the comic book, I decided to take a careful look at my Gargoyles Timeline.

I wound up doing a whole new draft of the document. (It's now 249 pages long.) I actually incorporated some corrections suggested here at ASK GREG by folks like Aris and Matt and Todd and Kathy. Aris, as a few of you may recall, pointed out an error in my math, that shifted Angela's hatching back to 1058 from 1078. So I fixed that.

Other things have changed as well. BUT NOTHING CANON HAS CHANGED, i.e. nothing has changed from the first 65 episodes of the T.V. series or the first issue of the comic (or the second or third either, frankly -- though you guys haven't seen them yet). Even "The Last" (Team Atlantis episode featuring Demona and on view at Gatherings) is still holding its own. And I didn't change anything just for the sake of changing things -- not even to surprise you despite the spoilers I've already given out.

But some things have changed. So old info currently in the Archives at Ask Greg may or may not be dead on accurate now. But I think the biggest change is that 1058 thing. So nothing too major, change-wise. Lots of new stuff added. Hopefully fun stuff.

Just thought I should let you know.


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Gipdac writes...

I believe you've said Arthur had some adventures before the events of "Pendragon", so, I was wondering…
1. When did Goliath & Co. arrive in London and meet Una and Leo (in "M.I.A.")?
2. When did Arthur arrive in London and first meet Griff (in "Pendragon")?
3. What day in 1920 did Goliath travel back to first meet Griff ("M.I.A.")?

Greg responds...

1. Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in London and first meet Leo and Una on January 23rd, 1996.

2. Arthur arrives in London and first meets Griff on May 19th, 1996.

3. I have not pinpointed a precise date in 1940 for when this took place. (Note, however, that the year is 1940, not 1920.)

Response recorded on May 11, 2006

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Gipdac writes...

One thing I've always wondered is how long Goliath & Co. were on the World Tour; as I near as I can tell, Guardian first contacted Elisa in early to mid December 1995 and the Avalon Quartet arrived back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996 (Alex's birth date). So,
1. When in 1995 did Guardian arrive in Manhattan, get arrested, meet Elisa and find Goliath?
2a. Was it his first time in New York? 2b. Was it his first time in the U.S.A.?
3. How long did the main events(or 1995 events) of the Avalon series actually take?...It seems like it all happened in one Avalon night (which would be like a week and a half in the real world, right?) from the time Katharine, Guardian and Magus were placing out dinner at sunset to the time Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela left.
4. On what date did Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrive in Wyvern (or the main events of "Shadows of the past" occur)?

Greg responds...

1. The Guardian arrives in New York on December 27th, 1995, but it is after midnight on the 28th before Tom and Goliath meet at Belvedere.

2ab. I'm not answering this at this time.

3. The Archmage's first attack on the Avalon Clan is on December 22nd, 1995. Goliath, Elisa, Bronx and Angela leave Avalon for the first time on January 1st, 1996.

4. The quartet arrive in Wyvern on January 1st, 1996. The events of "Shadows.." take place across the night of the 1st and 2nd of January, 1996.

Hope that helps.

Response recorded on May 11, 2006

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Chris writes...

Hi Greg I have a couple questions.First off i was wondering have you decided the dates of when Goliath,Elisa,and Xanatos die? Second I'm assumming they die of natural causes like old age right?

Greg responds...

I have not pinned down exact dates. And I'm not going to confirm or deny your second question at all.

Response recorded on April 05, 2006

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DPH writes...

It's me, again, with a whopper of question.

Will you please list the following events in chronological order:

1)Nokkar arrives on Earth
2)Mayan Sun Amulet is made
3)Last Member of the Lost Race dies.
4)Nokkar's race came into existance
5)The structures in the caverns below where Castle Wyvrn and the various pictures were created/drawn
6)Gargoyles's Spell of Humility was cast
7)New Olympus is founded
8)Puck is born

Greg responds...

1. 400 A.D.
2. 990 A.D.
3. I choose not to reveal this now.
4. I have no idea. Long ago. Long before 802 B.C. This is probably the oldest thing on your list.
5. I choose not to reveal this now.
6. 10 A.D.
7. I don't know exactly, but before 3 B.C.
8. Don't know exactly but before 1300 B.C..

Response recorded on December 02, 2005

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DPH writes...

1st, I want to give you, Greg Weisman, congrats on making it this far in answering questions.

Can you list all the events on your giant timeline that have occurred on February 2, which happens to my birthday?

Happy belated birthdays, since I'm betting you've had at least a couple of birthdays since this question was submitted.

Greg responds...

I'm afraid I currently don't have any events that specifically take place on February 2nd. Sorry.

Response recorded on December 01, 2005

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matt writes...

ok, i really had to research the archives to figure all this out, but that (and the long wait) will be worth it to satisfy my curiosity.

ok, heres some things you've said in the archives (correct any of these if i've gotten them wrong or they have changed):
-1 year in Avalon is 24 years in the real world, so 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world.
-Gargoyle Beasts are mature by age 2 and can mate and lay an egg 10 years after they were hatched.
-besides Boudicca, there is another female and a male beast among the Avalon Clan and they are mates.
-the Avalon Clan hatched in 1078.

1. so, ten years after the Avalon Clan hatched (this would be the year 1318 in the real world) the gargoyle beast pair would have been old enough and in sync with the natural gargoyle cycle to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?

2. if an egg was laid in Avalon in 1318, then ten years later on Avalon in the year 1558 the egg would be in sync with the natural cycle and again and would hatch, is that correct?

3. then ten years later on Avalon, which would be 1798 the gargoyle pair would be in sync again to mate and lay an egg, is that correct?

4 so, just to be clear, when Goliath, Elisa and Bronx arrive on Avalon, not only should there be Boudicca, and the other two beasts, but there should also be the first now mature pup of the beast pair and their second egg, waiting to hatch in 2038. is that correct?

i know the math is kinda crazy, but the way i figured all this out was by saying 10 years on Avalon is 240 years in the real world and just adding from there so:

1078 real world- eggs hatch
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1318 real world- gargoyle beasts mate and lay egg
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1558 real world- egg hatches
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
1798 real world- beasts mate again
+240 (10 years on Avalon)
2038 real world- second egg hatches

is all this right? its entirely possible, despite my checking, that i could've goofed up somewhere, so please correct me if i'm wrong on anything.

thanks Greg!

Greg responds...

Ugh. God, you're really going to make me do the math, aren't you? Let's start by saying that I'm not confirming that any of this happened. I'm just striving to address your calculations.

1. The natural gargoyle cycle would dictate that an egg would not be layed until 1328. Eggs are layed on even decades. They hatch on odd decades.

2. An egg layed on Avalon in 1328 would hatch in 1578.

3. Moving forward, the next egg would be lain in in 1828.

4. That egg would be waiting to hatch in 2078. Nevertheless, by your calculations, when Goliath and Elisa first arrived on Avalon, there should indeed be a pup that hatched in 1578 and an egg that was laid in 1828.

Response recorded on November 28, 2005

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Paul Lalli writes...

I swear I haven't seen this answered anywhere, but I can't imagine I'm the first one to be confused by it.

How long did it take Xanatos to move all of Castle Wyvern from Scotland to Manhattan? Did it take longer than one day? If so, was the spell configured to end as soon as the last stone was replaced onto the newly transported castle? Or was the castle continuously rebuilt after Awakening?

If it did not take longer than one day, how was it possible for Xanatos to install all of the 'modern' components in the castle (elevators and vid screens and communications network etc)?

I guess this just boils down to me being confused as to the timeline of Castle Wyvern's transportation.

Thanks!

Greg responds...

I don't have the exact date, but the scene you saw, where Xanatos orders Owen to purchase Castle Wyvern, took place sometime in the year 1993.

The Gargoyles wake up on October 4th, 1994.

Thus the purchase, deconstruction, transportation and reconstruction of the castle took a minimum of nine months, and maybe as much as 21 months... even with Xanatos' wealth and connections.

Xanatos, following Demona's advice, was careful not to put the gargoyles in place until everything was ready.

Response recorded on October 12, 2005

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Aves writes...

Hi Greg,

I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.

Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.

Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.

I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.

Greg responds...

Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...

Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").

Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).

Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.

Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)

Hope that clears it up.

Response recorded on June 23, 2005

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Angelmoon writes...

I have a question about Angela:) How old was she when she first appeared on the Avalon series? Just curious:) I appreciate you taking time to look over this and answer:) Thanks:)

Greg responds...

I assume you mean "How old was she when she first appeared in 'Avalon, Part One'?"

Angela was biologically 19-years-old.

Although, in fact she was chronologically 917.

Response recorded on June 02, 2005

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Macbeth writes...

When was Bodhe born and when Bodhe died ?

Greg responds...

The research I have indicates that Bodhe, a son of Kenneth III, was born in 985 and died in 1058 at the age of 73. To be honest, I've found that different sources often have different dates, so it's hard to be 100% sure. But these, I've decided, are the dates of the Garg-Universe Bodhe.

Response recorded on March 16, 2005

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Puck Robyne Lover!! writes...

Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.

Greg responds...

I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:

Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.

Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)

Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.

Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".

Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.

Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.

Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.

Response recorded on November 18, 2004

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Phil writes...

Here's hoping you've got your timeline with you.

In honor of the birth of my first son, could you please share some of the events that have happened in the gargoyles universe on September 10?

Greg responds...

Sure. Hold on. I'll be right back.

I literally have just flipped through every page of the timeline. This is the ONLY entry I found for that specific date:

Sunday, September 10th, 1995
The Gargoyles take Maggie back to the Clock Tower, but she flees to Xanatos' Castle after they turn to stone. Elisa and Matt discover that Xanatos owns Gen-U-Tech. After sundown, the Gargoyles awaken and discover Maggie gone. The Gargoyles and Elisa confront the Mutates and Xanatos at the Castle. Although Derek takes the name Talon, Elisa realizes that the Mutate is her brother. Talon and the other Mutates flee.

Congratulations (two years late) on the birth of your son, by the way!

Response recorded on September 03, 2004

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Babs writes...

ok on that age thing I messed up, I thinkGoliath is 35, hes 7 ft tall and I don tknow how much he weighs, his wingpsna is 18, would be neat if it was 24 though.
hudson is in his 90's or a 100, hes 6 ft tall, weighs about 1 ton, the rest you can fill me in on
Gargoyles Forever !

Greg responds...

The weights sound wrong. I have no comment on the wingspans or heights. (I'm not into numbers.)

And as for the ages, as of what year? Though generally, they sound wrong too.

Response recorded on June 17, 2004

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Babs writes...

To answer Anons question, I know some (plz do corrected me if I'm wrong so I can correct myself)
1)Brooklyn - is 19 years young, 6ft tall and wingspan 6 ft, day he weighs about 210 lbs. , night alot more
2)Broadway - 19 years of age, 6 ft tall, wingspan about 16ft, day time weighing in at a even 2 tons, night I don't even wanna think about it.
3)Lex - 19 years old
(I'm a tad bt out of thier age range)
4)Golaith - I think 29 years old
(Within better age range for me, he's just a few older than I)
5)Hudson - Hatced in 878 A.D., you do the math and get back to me on that one.
6)Bronx - not that old at all
7)Demona - If you know that would also help me, because I have no clue and if I'm wrong I don't want her hunting me down.
Gargoyles Forever !

Greg responds...

Anonymous asked for the ages at the time they were cursed. So my numbers are more accurate.

And I don't stand by those weights at all. Frankly, I'm not even sure about the wingspans.

As for Demona, she hatched at the same time as Goliath.

Response recorded on June 15, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

I know that the Clan was frozen in stone for 1,000 years, and I am also aware that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans, but approximately how old was each of the Gargoyles prior to being cursed.

Greg responds...

I've answered this before, but...

The first number is the character's actual calendar age. (The second is their approximate human biological equivalent.)

Hudson 116 (58)
Goliath 56 (28)
Trio 36 (18)
Bronx 16 (8)

Response recorded on June 15, 2004

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matt writes...

in the "Avalon", when Magus is talking to Elisa, there is a flashback of Tom and Katherine playing with the young gargoyles. i was curious if you knew how old the gargoyles were in that flashback. do you have in your timeline what year that was?

Greg responds...

I do not have a fixed year for that brief flashback assigned in my timeline.

Response recorded on June 07, 2004

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New b writes...

Hi,
I just started watching you show. I really want to see "Hunters Moon". Last nights show was "The Reckoning". Which one comes first.

Greg responds...

Reckoning comes before Hunter's Moon.

Response recorded on June 01, 2004

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DPH writes...

Since you have updated your timeline since you last answered the question about Angela and Ophelia possibly being "in heat" in 2008 (02-02-00), I thought I would ask that question again since that part of the timeline might have changed.

1)When is the earliest time that Angela and Ophelia could have laid an egg?

2)Will Angela, Ophelia, or both of them be capable of laying an egg in 2008?

Greg responds...

The earliest for either is 2008 and, yes, both are potentially capable of laying eggs in that year.

Response recorded on May 26, 2004

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JEB writes...

Random question - which is longer (page-length-wise), the Gargoyles Timeline or the Gargoyles Encyclopedia manuscript?

Greg responds...

The Timeline, last updated 6/27/01, is currently 221 pages long (not counting all the handwritten margin notes done since then).

The Encyclopedia, last updated 9/16/98, is currently 350 pages long (not counting all the handwritten margin notes done since then).

Response recorded on May 11, 2004

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ArAgOrNaS writes...

Hi Greg ,
I wondered if you know where one can
find a chronological listing of
all gargoyles-episodes

Greg responds...

Oh, I'm sure I've posted this somewhere.

Try:

http://www.gargoyles-fans.org/episodes.html

Response recorded on April 27, 2004

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Blaise writes...

DOUBLE JEOPARDY
The (currently) new ramble! Here's my own (which I also posted in the Comment Room).

After watching the "Previously..." recap and hearing Sevarius' mention about cloning, and then seeing the title, I pretty much figured out what the episode was going to be about. Consequently, I kind of knew that the gargoyle on the battlements at Xanatos' place wasn't really Goliath. Still, I was not quite prepared for Thailog, but we'll get to him later on.
The prologue is well written, and does fit in well with the established continuity...except for the date it's given in the computer files. Even allowing that Xanatos did not get released from prison until after Oct. 31, when did Elisa get shot, and how long before she was able to walk on crutches? Still, I'm willing to let it slide. Besides, it was cool how Goliath smashed the robot's head (you can see the red eye-bulb pop out).
The coloring error you saw, Greg, concerning Thailog's arm in the attack on Lex and Broadway, seems to have been corrected in later airings (at least it's black on my tape).
That was one thing that surprised me--seeing the flash in Elisa's windshield NOT being a copy of Goliath, but something with black skin, red eyes, and a white something (hair of course, but I only saw a glimpse).
I was curious as to what Sevarius was doing with the mercenaries, and why he seemed to be stealing from his employer. I think I may have decided to wait until the end to draw any conclusions.
When Owen mentioned the Emir, I remembered THE EDGE. I didn't expect the dude to actually show up in the series (I was still a bit naive (sp?)), and instead thought more along the lines that this would be a running gag in the series. A sort of background business thing that Xanatos would always be dealing with.
It is interesting to see Xanatos in a semi-vengeful attitude. It's just something you're not used to seeing from this guy. I liked hearing the list of his "enemies" for some strange reason. Just nice to know that Xanatos isn't so untouchable.
And Owen even gets to make a couple of digs at Xanatos--not just the one at the end, but the "plan you've neglected to mention" and cryptically referring to Xanatos Enterprises as "a certain large consortium" (sp?).
Even though Goliath laughed maniacally well-enough in ENTER MACBETH, I still got a kick out of Hudson's line. A little nod to the fact that Goliath has a tendency to be...stoic, perhaps.
And then we get another glimpse at Thailog. And he actually managed to look scarier than Goliath, IMHO. Not a bad trick. I hadn't thought until reading the memo that something...unpleasant may have happend to the mercenaries here. This new thought rather intrigues me (in a morbid sort of way).
The Gen-U-Tech traking bracelet makes a reappearance. Gotta love continuity.
Seeing the electronic log of Thailog's creation proved to be quite fascinating for me. Mostly because of the mention of "accelerating (sp?) the normally slow gargoyle growth process." I liked the added explanation here and the nod towards the coloring change. On the whole, it made everything easier to except, and allowed me to sit back and have fun watching the episode develop.
Like many folks, I loved the whole Xanatos-Sevarius confrontation. Neither is really aware of what the other is thinking, but believes they are. And when Sevarius started to cut loose (and then undercut it with the whispered question of his quality of performance) I laughed out loud. That and the look on Xanatos' face are still amusing (vengeful, confused...you see a lot of sides to Xanatos that you normally don't in this episode).
When Goliath finally meets Thailog...I did not expect Thailog to turn out quite the villain he was, despite knowing that he learned everything from Xanatos. Consequently, I was not expecting him to jump Goliath like that. But this made him a lot of fun. And I love the way Thailog sort of hisses out the "s" at the end of "All the old blocks."
When Thailog is talking to Xanatos and Sevarius in the hold of the oil rig, there is a loop of repeated animation that is very noticeable. The odd thing is, the lips actually remain more-or-less in sync with the dialogue.
I love Thailog's lines here. "And waste my life playing 'guardian angel' night after night to a decrepit city, infested with inferior humans?" Just his choice of words says a lot about this guy's outlook on the world. And to this day I keep playing his other line to Goliath in my head from time to time: "I considered caring about you. It took some effort, but I arranged for you to join this party because I planned to share the money with you. But our little...'family reunion' disappointed me, *father*! So I've decided to *hate* you, too." I just love how that throws some of the blame for what happens on Goliath. Man, with this and OUTFOXED, Goliath's been faced with a lot of his shortcomings.
I had no problem with Elisa slipping out of the manacles. I mean, those things weren't like police cuffs that could close in diameter to conform to a prisoner's wrists. Besides, Xanatos' comment was rather fun.
Actually, there were a lot of fun lines in this sequence, and the episode as a whole (of course, they've already been pointed out, so...).
I get a strange kick out of the fact that it's Sevarius who picks up on the idea that could save them all. It's always fun when the villains and heroes wind up on the same side for some reason.
Something I find very interesting whenever I watch this episode: when Elisa and Xanatos think Goliath might be dead, Xanatos actually moves to comfort Elisa! It's just endlessly fascinating to me that in a potential moment of loss, the proferred shoulder to cry on comes from the antagonist. That's one great thing about this series, character was never subverted for the sake of conforming to traditional "roles."
I actually did think that Thailog had died in the fire. I of course would have regretted it--he was a great character, and Keith David's mannerisms were so distinct from Goliath's that I half-wondered if maybe Thailog was voiced by someone else (a thought I had also had concerning Jim Cummings' differnt sound as Darkwing and Negaduck). However, it wasn't until the "reverse-Xanatos tag" that Thailog took an even greater leap upward in my estimation. Learning that Thailog probably survived and was (in Owen's words) "still out there, has the money, is as powerful as Goliath...and smarter than [Xanatos]." That was one of those "shock" moments, and immediately followed up by "Owen, I think I've created a monster." It felt to me like not only had a new villain been unleashed upon the world, but one greater than any that had come before. I actually like seeing the image of Thailog laughing (although recently, I've wondered what the effect would be if his transparent-face suffused the whole screen).
Rambling on Thailog for a moment--it was great how he moved beyond the stereotypical "evil twin" bit. Although his contrast with Goliath is a very compelling aspect of him, he is not confined to that one dimension. He has the tics that are very much his own, and he manages to assert his independence even more when he takes to wearing the armor.
I know, Greg, that you feel every villain should seem, in "that particular encounter" the hero's unltimate enemy. Still, I can't help but feel that the true rank of "archfiend" seems made for the likes of Thailog.

This is another one of those episodes I really enjoy!

Greg responds...

Thanks.

My plans for Season Three would have had Thailog really emerge as the Gargoyles primary antagonist. I really wanted to give him a chance to come into his own. Still do.

As you know, Keith, of course, DID perform both roles. In fact his talent was one of the main inspirations for doing Thailog in the first place.

TIMELINE...
You had questions. Maybe this will clear some of them up. Then again, maybe not.

Friday, October 28th, 1994
Xanatos may anticipate being released by October 31st, the date of his coming pre-trial appearance. [NOTE: The calendar in Xanatos' cell matches neither 1994 nor 1995. It may not even be his.]

Monday, October 31st, 1994
In part, ironically, because both Xanatos and Elisa wish to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos' lawyers and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of receiving stolen property. He is sentenced to six months, including time served, with every possibility that the sentence will be reduced in three months for good behavior.

Tuesday, November 15th, 1994
Owen acquires a DNA sample from Goliath.

Friday, November 18th, 1994
Elisa is shot.

Tuesday, January 3rd, 1995
Elisa is on crutches when Macbeth first attacks castle.

Wednesday, January 4th, 1995
Xanatos is released from prison. Goes home to the castle first. And then stops by Gen-U-Tech.

Hope that helps.

Response recorded on January 26, 2004

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Wolfram Bane (wolfram_bane@hotmail.com) writes...

Gargoyles Chronology

I was curious as to the fact if you had ever posted your Master Timeline online, or intended to in the near future?

Greg responds...

I have not, and have no intention to do so.

Aside from the sheer size of the document (221 pages), I have some vague hopes of publishing it someday.

Response recorded on October 10, 2003

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Gipdac writes...

In the gargoyles universe;
What year did Atlantis sink?
What was the cause of it sinking?

Greg responds...

My timeline says:

"9386 B.C. Atlantis is destroyed. (Date approximate.)"

I think it's interesting how specific that approximate date is.

As for the cause, I'm not ready to reveal that at this time.

Response recorded on September 25, 2003

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Chris Velazquez writes...

If given the chance to revive the Gargoyles series, what role would you personally give to these mostly underused and/or underrated characters:

1. Fang- My favorite character, I wonder if he would be given the chance to become one of the typical " one-liner spitting good guy with bad attitude" character (something I would like) or become a mayor villain.

2. Maria Chavez- Would she ever meet the gargoyles?

3. Claw

4. Wolf

5. Delilah

Also, I would like to know how old Talon, Maggie, Claw and Fang are.

Greg responds...

What follows is not meant to be all-inclusive, but just a sampling of my plans...

1. Fang was destined to join "BAD GUYS". That is he was forced to either join Bad Guys or serve a life sentence in prison. He chose the former. For more info on BAD GUYS see the Bad Guys Archive here at ASK GREG, or come to next year's GATHERING in Montreal to see the Bad Guys' story reel for yourself.

2. Ever's a long time. But I had no immediate plans to change either her position or her role within the show. We would have learned more about her home life though, including her daughter.

3. Claw would have remained a mainstay in the Labyrinth, though he also would likely have guest-starred in BAD GUYS.

4. Wolf would have joined the Ultra-Pack.

5. Delilah would also have remained in the Labyrinth. She and Goliath would attempt to "date", but it wouldn't work out.

Finally, my timeline shows the following birth years:

Claw - 1954
Fang - 1968
Talon - 1970
Maggie - 1975

Response recorded on August 25, 2003

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Vanity writes...

When early man first met a Gargoyle was he just compelled to kill it? Did early man's superstitious and early proto-religous notions convince him that gargoyles must be evil? I would think that early man would be scared of the much more physically dominant gargoyles, however; mammoths proved no match for early humans. Of course I'm also curious as to gargoyles' reaction/response when early man first starting walking about.
Which specie of man first encountered gargoyle (Homo neanderthalis, Homo erectus, Homo sapien..ect..)?

Archeologists have definately found early man developing weapons crafted of wood and stone and bone. This would help offset the physical inequality between man and goyle. When did gargoyles borrow or invent tool making for themselves. Being 'rational' beings I would think it wouldn't take long for them to realize that the spears humans threw at them really hurt!!

I hate to ask a billion questions like this but....

You have said that gargoyle evolution predates mammalian evolution so Gargoyle evolved before man. So given the seemingly headstart in evolution how could they just let man rule the world.

Why does it seem that given the rough lives of gargoyles, which they had no better that early man; did they not invest themselves in art, music, and architecture. When even some of the earliest men developed tools, made art, evidence of instruments presumed by archeologists as perhaps made for music. They began religous elements as burying the dead and trying to preserve the elderly. (Evidence of this espicially advanced in Homo neanderthalis, of which old men have been found with multiple injuries{perhaps gargoyle induced} indicating his being taken care of by the neanderthal family even at the high risk way of life that the neanderthal lead). What accounts for early man's eagerness to "learn-adapt-evolve" where gargoyles seemed content just to use or mimik man's achievements?

Greg responds...

1. Not necessarily. I don't think early man could kill a gargoyle. That took practice.

2. I think fear -- not necessarily superstition, but old-fashioned, this thing is bigger and stronger than I am fear -- would have been there.

3. And Mammoths were something of a match for man, certainly they were dangerous prey. And they weren't nearly as intelligent as a gargoyle.

4. Since, my theory is that Gargoyles pre-date modern man, the answer is, all of them, I believe.

5. I don't have dates for this, but I'm not sure that gargoyles ever truly adopted the spear. Yes, it hurt. But they had better defenses (and offensive strategies) given their physical natures than to adopt spears.

6. Note - I don' mind a billion questions. Just wish you'd NUMBER them, for easier reference. (EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION!)

7. Well, they didn't just let men rule the world. They were largely asleep when man began to take over. Gargs tended to trump everything that came before, including man. But a man with tools, ultimately trumped the Gargs.

8. Who said they didn't? Who's to say that some of those artifacts you speak of weren't gargoylean. And were just attributed to man by human archaeologists who know no better.

9. No, not burying the dead, because gargs have their own tradition, the Wind Ceremony, ashes to ashes or dust to dust.

10. Again, you're assuming facts not in evidence. The fact that they didn't use clothes or weapons or have sophisticated shelters, none of which they physically required, is hardly proof that all they did was use or mimic man's achievements. The first time you meet the gargoyles, in 994, the species is, sadly, already in decline. What you know doesn't speak to what there was or might have been once upon a time.

Response recorded on June 16, 2003

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Justin writes...

Dear Greg,

You said that, and Goliath has also said that, "Long ago there were clans all over the world." Well that is a pretty vague statement. I do understand it was intentional but the idea has bothered be for close to six years now, where were these clans? Were there any in the americas? Africa? Italy? Moscow? I really would like to know how far the species migrated.

Thanks

Greg responds...

What part of "all over the world" don't you understand?

If you want me to list every clan location... well, I won't. I'm not going to go through an Atlas and start choosing spots.

The Americas? You know it. Africa? Sure. Italy? Absolutely. Moscow, specifically? I don't know.

They are an old race. Now on the verge of extinction, but once upon a time they were (briefly) the dominant species on the planet. They spread out.

Response recorded on May 27, 2003

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FanForLife writes...

Hi Greg. Just wondering--was the part in the Journey where Goliath went to see Elisa the first time the two talked or saw each other since the kiss at the end of Hunter's Moon 3? If not, when did they first see or talk to each other after the kiss? Thanks!

Greg responds...

Elisa and Goliath kiss on the morning of October 27, 1996.

Goliath goes to see Elisa just after Midnight on October 29, 1996.

I find it hard to believe that they didn't see each other at all on the 27th or 28th. But it's very possible that they had no time alone to discuss what had happened.

Response recorded on February 14, 2003

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matt writes...

i was wondering what your timeline looks like around the time the Clan left the Eyrie Building in Fall 1994.

i watched "Double Jeopardy" tonight and saw that Owen acquiered Goliath's blood samples on November 15. that means the gargoyles left the castle after that, but i also saw that Elisa was there and not on crutches as she was at the beginning of "Enter Macbeth" which makes me think that the "Double Jeopardy" flashback also occured before "Deadly Force". i didn't realize that so much of the first season (six out of the eight episodes, not including "Awakening") happened after mid-November. of course, its even stranger cuz if all that is accurate, there actually is a small flashback in "Enter Macbeth" of Xanatos in his cell cuz his calendar shows late October, weeks before "Deadly Force" and the rest of "Enter Macbeth" would have happened.
is all that right?

when in 1996 (1997?) did the rest of the first season episodes occur? do you have that in your timeline yet?

Greg responds...

Hey matt -- in fact, hey everyone. I'm still pretty busy these days, and the backlog is intimidating, but I figured, if I NEVER got started, I'd never get started, if you know what I mean.

So I'm just going to try to answer one question every week-day.

Anyway, matt, here's an abreviated version of the timeline for this period:

10-28-94 Xanatos anticipates being released by Oct. 31st, the date of his next pre-trial appearance. [There is an outdated calendar on the wall of his cell that fits neither 1994 or 1995. It may not even be his.] (Enter Macbeth)

10-31-94 Xanatos plea bargains a six month sentence with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior (including time served). (Thrill)

11-4-94 Lex makes contact with the Pack. (Thrill)

11-11-94 Brooklyn tests out the motorcycle and encounters Demona. (Temptation) Xanatos' sentence is officially recorded. Elisa checks out the clock tower.

11-12-94 Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out in a month. (She is exaggerating for effect, as it will actually be closer to two.) Later Demona, casts a spell on Goliath. (Temptation)

11-13-94 Elisa frees Goliath from Demona's spell. (Temptation)

11-15-94 Elisa again attempts to get Goliath to leave castle. Owen gets a cell sample. (Double Jeopardy)

11-18-94 Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa. (Deadly Force)

12-27-94 The clan enoys a pleasant night at the castle. Xanatos is still counting down days in prison. (Enter Macbeth)

12-31-94 Sevarius begins to clone Goliath. (Double Jeopardy)

1-3-95 Macbeth attacks the clan at the castle. (Enter Macbeth)

1-4-95 The gargs move to the clock tower. Xanatos is released from jail. (Enter Macbeth) Later, he checks in with Sevarius. (Double Jeopardy)

As for the rest of the first season...
The Edge, Long Way To Morning and Her Brother's Keeper all take place in January '95. Reawakening takes place in February of '95.

Response recorded on January 27, 2003

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Lord Sloth writes...

Happy birthday to the one and only, Greg Weisman, Creator of WORLDS!!! Or, since you wont read this for a few months, Merry Christmas to THE Greg Weisman, Puppet Master of GARGOYLES!!! Or perhaps just a happy UN-birthday for you, whenever this is.

I take it that it is no coincidence that the day Charles Canmore was killed by Demona happened to be on the day you turned 18 (if my math serves me (it usually doesn't)). Is there any cool story as to how that came to be? And I seem to remember there being some other dates in Gargoyles that are one with your special day, but I could be wrong since I can't think of them. Are there by any chance?

Anyway, have a nice day and good luck with your 38th year, unless it's 39 by now... Cheers.

Greg responds...

Actually, in 1980 I was turning 17, not 18.

And there's no cool story for this one. I just used my birthday because it seemed like the right time of year and I felt like it.

I've used my birthday (9/28) a few times:

994: Tom, Mary and the refugees enter Wyvern Castle. [This one has less to do with my birthday, then with the fact that I decided that the date of the flashback in AWAKENING ONE should coincide with the Gargoyles World Premiere in Florida, which was on 29 September 1994. Working backwards, it's obvious that the refugees got to Wyvern on the 28th.

995: Tom, Mary, Finella, Magus, Katharine and the eggs escape Edinburgh Castle. [Again, this is just a coincidence. They escaped on Michaelmas Eve. Michaelmas is 9/29.]

1963: Vinnie is born. [I gave him my birthdate since he was my stand-in in THE JOURNEY.]

1980: Charles Canmore dies. [See above.]

1995: Demona summons Puck in THE MIRROR. That same night Fox contacts Vogel, inducing him to betray Renard. [The events of the Mirror just broke down in the chronology so that they wound up happening on the 28th. On the other hand, OUTFOXED originally aired on my birthday in 1995, so I tried to have something from "OUTFOXED happen on that day -- though the main events of the episode could not have taken place until later.

1996: Xanatos captures Coldstone in the Himalayas. [This event had to have happened around this time, but I chose my birthday, cuz I felt like it.]

That's it for now.

Response recorded on June 12, 2002

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Lynati writes...

Happy Birthday, Greg. :)

If you happen to have access to your new timeline when you get around to reading this, and you have pinned down dates for these episodes, please tell me the dates that 1)Kingdom, and 2)Pendragon occured.
Continuing on the timeline theme, are you using the animation as a guide- ie, the phase of the moon, so often shown full in the series, to place the dates of episodes?Well, anyway, here is a link that may be somewhat useful for WHEN Gargoyles DOES make it back onto the air...for letting the animators know when it is acceptable to show a gargoyle silhouetted against a full moon, and such. (...that is, if you care enough to bother. I tend to forget that not everyone is obsessive about details in their work as I am sometimes.)
http://www.googol.com/moon/
Enjoy...?

Greg responds...

I gave up on the Moon, except when it figured into plot as in Hunter's Moon.

I might try to be more conscientious next time, but as for what's already aired, I'm going to have to chalk it up to artistic license that the full moon was always out. There's no other way to explain its constant presence.

Unfortunately, my timeline's at the office. And I'm at home now. So, sorry. Ask again later, if you can.

Response recorded on June 10, 2002

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Chapter XXXIV: "Avalon, Part One"

There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...

"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.

THE RECAP

...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.

Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.

"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.

THE TITLE

The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.

Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?

OPENING

Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.

Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.

My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."

OLD FRIENDS

Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?

Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)

Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.

Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.

Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.

That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.

BELVEDERE CASTLE

Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.

Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.

Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.

I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*

Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]

Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"

This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.

FLASHBACK

Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.

Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)

VOICES

There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)

But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.

Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)

Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.

They're amazing.

SOAP OPERA

Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."

A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.

Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.

Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.

Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."

(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)

Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)

After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.

THE MURDER

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.

Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.

Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)

Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"

That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.

We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)

We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?

Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.

Michaelmas. I just like that word.

Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.

THE ESCAPE

The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!

I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.

Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.

Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.

Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?

They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.

And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.

Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.

AVALON

Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.

Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.

Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?

Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.

Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?


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Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...

Lastly the hard one: I took a quick look through the waiting to be answered section, (mea culpa, I don't usually check that part, only the actually answered sections), and I saw a few questions about the recent terrorist attack and the Gargoyles universe. I too am wondering what your thoughts on it are. Forgive me for being presumptuous, but my gut reaction is that you would want to deal with it. Gargoyles never stayed away from difficult issue, and this one came to it. If and (hopefully) when the show continues in some form, and assuming Disney allows you to, how would you handle it? Until now you have said you are leaning to continuing the show post Journey and going through the intervening years at a quick pace. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious what year it is in the story, but the people who are interested would be able to fit it into place and know the time frame from the internet. Now the time frame will be obvious with the most cursory glance.

Aside from the logistics of fitting it in and when, is the issue of how. Gargoyles has it easier than your run of the mill superhero. First off, it happened in the morning, so there us no question of them having been there. (And the fact that so many characters in the show are cops puts us literally and figuratively at ground zero.) Second off, they are strong and they can glide, but they have no way of magically lifting building high stacks of rubble, or zeroing in on survivors under those stacks. They cannot teleport, or put trapped survivors in stasis until they can be reached. In short, they are little more than a few extra sets of extremely strong hands. Still, for a fictional story to save one more life than we have so desperately managed to save strikes me as somewhat offensive. With the heartache and heroism we have seen in the past few days, it is so hard to find the balance between doing disservice to a difficult issue by ignoring it, and doing disservice to that same issue by trivializing it. Not that it shouldn't be tried, In between the extremes is a major service art plays to humanity.

Personally the whole incident has been as bizarre as it is horrendous. Sometime in the middle of Rosh HaShanna I found myself praying I would turn the television after the holiday to hear they found even just one more survivor. I am sure many were doing the same thing, but I was praying that for the rescue workers, so that they would have something to help them go on. At the same time I still hadn't, haven't completely registered the event. The numbers are too big to compute. And yet, I saw the second tower fall from Christopher street, the closest the subway got to work, and knew I had to continue walking south to work to get to my non-telephone based e-mail to be sure I could contact the outside world and get word out I was fine and find out about all my friends who worked even further downtown than I, (not to mention getting word to cousins in Israel who are used to the calls going the other way). I was able to hear that all my friends got out unharmed by noon and began the long walk home. All along the way people had set up radios and televisions for everyone to huddle around and sort out what exactly had happened. I have always maintained New Yorkers are far more friendly and caring than we will admit, but now, it is obvious. By the time we reached the 12th street the people lined up to give blood filled avenues by Saint Vincent hospital. They had so many people asking to volunteer that we were told
to try again in several hours. My friend had chosen a bad day not to wear sensible shoes, and we were stopping into shoe stores all the way north to find her a pair of Keds without luck.

Of course, once I got back to my apartment, and later at friends, we watched amazing amounts of news. With exception of sabbeth and the holiday, I don't think I've gone more than 5 hours without checking it in one way or another. In the days before we were allowed to go back to work we switched off between the news and silly things. I saw The Princess Diaries, my boss admitted to a slightly more
serious movie, but not much more. Thursday the wind shifted and we could smell the smoke. The wind still mainly blows away from us, but every once in a while it turns north again and it smells as if the city decided to put all its ovens on self clean mode. But for the most part the weather had been bizarrely clear and lovely.

Since then we have heard stories of heroism and humanity. Instead of panic and everyman for himself, people were orderly as they made their long way down. Strangers helped, even carried, each other down the stairs. Hundreds of firemen, police and other rescue workers ran back in and up and most probably died in the collapse. Thousands are dead, but thousands were saved by human kindness at the most basic and heroic level. I have never been more proud to be a New Yorker. [And that isn't even dealing with all the people that flocked to NY to help, nor the war I feel we must fight and pray we are mature enough to handle as we have not been in the past.] Everyone here knows at least someone who lost someone. And you can't help but look out windows that used to see the towers, or just down the street, and see a surreal open skyline still full of smoke.

I can't see how any story set in this city at this time can ignore the events, yet I am still too close to know if it is possible to do it justice. I am a (supposed) adult who has had more exposure to terrorism
than most New Yorkers and have an ability 'get used' to new status quos quicker than many. You have repeatedly said that Gargoyles would remain child friendly, even if the topics became more mature. I cannot help but think that children are in even more need than adults to make sense of these events and how it changes us.

thanks for the answers, (and the chance to vent).

Laura

Greg responds...

Laura,

I'm tempted not to respond at all. I'm not sure what I could say that would be even half as eloquent as what you just wrote. I know months have passed since you wrote those words, but today they have effected me deeply.

To answer your question... I just don't know. The plan to continue the series where we left off and speed through the years (keeping hard-core fans posted via the internet) made a ton of sense to me before September 11th. Now, of course, everything's changed. It's easy enough to simply NOT show the twin towers. If we're careful it just means we're not pointing the camera that way. And it could be before or after 9/11. But leaving it at that is something of a cop-out.

You've really hit the nail square on the head. How would I, would anyone really, deal with this topic respectfully in a fictional universe? On one level, I'd love to include it -- if for no other reason than to work out some of my own demons about that days events. As you said, the Gargoyles wouldn't even learn about it until sunset.

Then what? I don't think I'd have any of our regulars die in those events. It would seem to cheapen the sacrifices made by real flesh and blood people. Obviously, after the fact, I don't see how I could avoid having Elisa and the Gargs lend a hand. They wouldn't save anyone. How could I allow it? But just try to help.

But even that seems less than respectful. From my vantage in California, it's hard to see a way clear. Ultimately, this probably would never be a decision that would be left in my hands. But if it was, I'd have to take on a consultant (or two or ten). Representatives of all aspects of the event. People who were involved.

That's the best I can come up with now? It's all too hypothetical and painful to figure out in more detail.

But in the simplest terms if what you're asking me is whether or not the towers came down on 9-11-01 in the Gargoyle Universe, then the answer is yes.

Response recorded on May 09, 2002

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Gipdac writes...

When was Bodhe's son, MacBodhe, killed?

Greg responds...

Hold on, I'll check.

1033.

Response recorded on March 28, 2002

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While I'm thinking of it....

Behold the following exchange (then skip to the bottom):

Received from pc-17.di.uoa.gr on Monday, September 17, 2001 04:52:03 AM
Aris Katsaris writes...

'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:

<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...

You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.

You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.

Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?

I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)

Greg responds...

The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.

You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.

But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.

And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.

For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.

recorded on 03-04-02

With all this in mind...

I know I've established -- both here and in my own head (particularly with regards to G2198) that eggs hatch on the Spring Equinox.

But does anyone remember whether (and where) I've established what month the eggs are laid in?

I can't recall if this has come up yet.

Anyone know? And would this solve my problems at all?


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Aris Katsaris writes...

'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:

<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...

You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.

You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.

Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?

I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
-------------

Greg responds...

The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.

You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.

But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.

And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.

For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.

Response recorded on March 04, 2002

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matt writes...

when was the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act signed? if you won't tell the exact year can you tell if it was within 10 years or so of 2198 or was it in Elisa's lifetime or somewhere in between?

Greg responds...

I'm not saying right now.

Response recorded on January 23, 2002

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Creamy writes...

1. Is Hunter's Moon a specific day or week of the year?
2. If so could you give us the date(s)?

Greg responds...

In 1996, Hunter's Moon was on Saturday, October 26th. I doubt it's on the same night every year, since we operate on a solar, rather than a lunar calender. Anyone else know how this works?

Response recorded on January 15, 2002

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Anonymous writes...

Is Renard still alive in 2001?

Greg responds...

I'm not 100% sure. Certain events between 1997 and the present are in a bit of flux, given that I haven't had a venue for stories.

Response recorded on October 17, 2001

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matt writes...

in "Sentinel" when Elisa has lost her memory and Goliath is trying to explain things to her, he says that they have been friends for over a year. i would've thought that at that time it was around two years, am i wrong? have you gotten this far in your chronology? how far are you in the chronology?

oh, and what is the earliest date in your chronology of the Garg Universe?

Greg responds...

They met in the fall of '94. Sentinel took place in the spring of '96. Over a year, right?

And I don't have the timeline with me here at home...

It's forever a work in progress, but it's 'done' for now.

I forget the earliest date. But the last date at the moment is 2198. I know a few things that happen after 2198, but I haven't set a date for them yet.

Response recorded on September 01, 2001

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Aris Katsaris writes...

<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...

You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.

You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.

Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?

I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)

Greg responds...

I've been through this carefully. But I'm at my Disney office at the moment and the timeline is in Beverly Hills. I'm fairly confident that I'm right about this. But I can't check your math or your premises here.

So I'm afraid, you'll have to ask this again if you want an answer.

Response recorded on August 30, 2001

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Phil writes...

I've enjoyed reading the G2198 proposal, but now I'm going back into the Ask Greg archive for a question. On 9/5/2000 you posted that the G2158 revamp forced you to go back and make adjustments to both DARK AGES and "Three Brothers." It also necessitated minor changes to TIME DANCER and clarified your thinking on PENDRAGON and BAD GUYS. (end of paraphrase) I can see where it would change TIME DANCER, but what kinds of things did you have to change in the other spin-offs? I'm not asking for specifics, just a general idea.

Greg responds...

I had to think about the nature of Arthur's immortality.

I had to posit forward what happens to a lot of characters in a lot of shows.

I realized in doing more detailed math that Tachi did not hatch until after Brooklyn, Katana, Nash and Fu Dog returned to 1997. When they came back, she was still an egg.

Basically, I went through the entire TimeLine (all I know of it at least) from WAY, WAY back when to 2198. I literally went through every episode and assigned days and dates to every canon event in the 66 episodes I was involved in.

It took me a year. From G2000 to G2001. But the good new is that now I'm fairly confident that I got it right. When I have the timeline with me, which I don't at the moment, I can speak from real confidence about all this stuff.

Response recorded on August 15, 2001

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matt writes...

at any time in history, lets say 0AD to 2200AD, were there ever wild garg beasts or packs of wild garg beasts running around somewhere? i mean like garg beast that were not attached to a clan of gargoyles, just on their own, or have beast always been domesticated pets of gargoyles?

Greg responds...

By Zero AD they were domesticated.

Response recorded on August 14, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

Are the events in "Turf" and "Vendettas" ment to be happing at the same time? If they are, why wasn't Bronx with Goliath and Hudson in Vendettas and why were they gone for two night? If they wern't, why was it that Goliath, Hudson and Bronx were away two nights in Turf?

Also, In "Turf", why does Jack Danforth(is that his name) know so much about the Prison system and where Dracon was held? And what made Danforth want to join in the mob buisness? Don't the Feds keep a watch on their relocated witnesses? For that matter, why was Jack a relocated witness? What was he a whitness of?

Merci

Greg responds...

The events depicted in "Vendettas" (not counting the 7/18/96 prologue in Scotland) took place between August 1st and 2nd, 1996. Though neither Goliath or Hudson made it back to the clock tower before sunrise on the morning of the 2nd. The events of "Turf" took place between August 2nd and 3rd. Bronx was having his own little adventure at that time.

Jack Danforth (aka Jack Dane) has been in the prison system. And he still has friends inside. He made it his business to know. Dane wasn't joining the mob business. He was REJOINING the mob business. He was a mobster who was at odds with the Dracon family and had (at some point) testified against them. The Feds were aware that Dane had un-relocated. But they needed evidence to bring him in. Elisa eventually provided that evidence.

Response recorded on August 07, 2001

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Lord Sloth writes...

What is the year, and month, that Brooklen starts, and finishes, his time dancing? What happens in the 5 minutes he is gone?

Greg responds...

My current thinking is that Brooklyn vanishes in 1997. (I haven't pinned down the month.) And he's probably gone less than five minutes actually. Broadway and Angela (and maybe Lex) just have time to say something like, "Oh no, will we ever see our dear friend again?" (only better dialogue) before he reappears.

Response recorded on July 27, 2001


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