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There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...
"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.
THE RECAP
...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.
Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.
"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.
THE TITLE
The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.
Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?
OPENING
Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.
Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.
My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."
OLD FRIENDS
Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?
Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)
Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.
Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.
Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.
That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.
BELVEDERE CASTLE
Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.
Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.
Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.
I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*
Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]
Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"
This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.
FLASHBACK
Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.
Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)
VOICES
There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)
But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.
Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)
Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.
They're amazing.
SOAP OPERA
Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."
A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.
Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.
Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.
Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."
(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)
Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)
After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.
THE MURDER
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.
Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.
Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)
Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"
That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.
We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)
We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?
Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.
Michaelmas. I just like that word.
Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.
THE ESCAPE
The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!
I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.
Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.
Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.
Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?
They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.
And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.
Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.
AVALON
Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.
Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.
Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?
Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Lastly the hard one: I took a quick look through the waiting to be answered section, (mea culpa, I don't usually check that part, only the actually answered sections), and I saw a few questions about the recent terrorist attack and the Gargoyles universe. I too am wondering what your thoughts on it are. Forgive me for being presumptuous, but my gut reaction is that you would want to deal with it. Gargoyles never stayed away from difficult issue, and this one came to it. If and (hopefully) when the show continues in some form, and assuming Disney allows you to, how would you handle it? Until now you have said you are leaning to continuing the show post Journey and going through the intervening years at a quick pace. It wouldn't necessarily be obvious what year it is in the story, but the people who are interested would be able to fit it into place and know the time frame from the internet. Now the time frame will be obvious with the most cursory glance.
Aside from the logistics of fitting it in and when, is the issue of how. Gargoyles has it easier than your run of the mill superhero. First off, it happened in the morning, so there us no question of them having been there. (And the fact that so many characters in the show are cops puts us literally and figuratively at ground zero.) Second off, they are strong and they can glide, but they have no way of magically lifting building high stacks of rubble, or zeroing in on survivors under those stacks. They cannot teleport, or put trapped survivors in stasis until they can be reached. In short, they are little more than a few extra sets of extremely strong hands. Still, for a fictional story to save one more life than we have so desperately managed to save strikes me as somewhat offensive. With the heartache and heroism we have seen in the past few days, it is so hard to find the balance between doing disservice to a difficult issue by ignoring it, and doing disservice to that same issue by trivializing it. Not that it shouldn't be tried, In between the extremes is a major service art plays to humanity.
Personally the whole incident has been as bizarre as it is horrendous. Sometime in the middle of Rosh HaShanna I found myself praying I would turn the television after the holiday to hear they found even just one more survivor. I am sure many were doing the same thing, but I was praying that for the rescue workers, so that they would have something to help them go on. At the same time I still hadn't, haven't completely registered the event. The numbers are too big to compute. And yet, I saw the second tower fall from Christopher street, the closest the subway got to work, and knew I had to continue walking south to work to get to my non-telephone based e-mail to be sure I could contact the outside world and get word out I was fine and find out about all my friends who worked even further downtown than I, (not to mention getting word to cousins in Israel who are used to the calls going the other way). I was able to hear that all my friends got out unharmed by noon and began the long walk home. All along the way people had set up radios and televisions for everyone to huddle around and sort out what exactly had happened. I have always maintained New Yorkers are far more friendly and caring than we will admit, but now, it is obvious. By the time we reached the 12th street the people lined up to give blood filled avenues by Saint Vincent hospital. They had so many people asking to volunteer that we were told
to try again in several hours. My friend had chosen a bad day not to wear sensible shoes, and we were stopping into shoe stores all the way north to find her a pair of Keds without luck.
Of course, once I got back to my apartment, and later at friends, we watched amazing amounts of news. With exception of sabbeth and the holiday, I don't think I've gone more than 5 hours without checking it in one way or another. In the days before we were allowed to go back to work we switched off between the news and silly things. I saw The Princess Diaries, my boss admitted to a slightly more
serious movie, but not much more. Thursday the wind shifted and we could smell the smoke. The wind still mainly blows away from us, but every once in a while it turns north again and it smells as if the city decided to put all its ovens on self clean mode. But for the most part the weather had been bizarrely clear and lovely.
Since then we have heard stories of heroism and humanity. Instead of panic and everyman for himself, people were orderly as they made their long way down. Strangers helped, even carried, each other down the stairs. Hundreds of firemen, police and other rescue workers ran back in and up and most probably died in the collapse. Thousands are dead, but thousands were saved by human kindness at the most basic and heroic level. I have never been more proud to be a New Yorker. [And that isn't even dealing with all the people that flocked to NY to help, nor the war I feel we must fight and pray we are mature enough to handle as we have not been in the past.] Everyone here knows at least someone who lost someone. And you can't help but look out windows that used to see the towers, or just down the street, and see a surreal open skyline still full of smoke.
I can't see how any story set in this city at this time can ignore the events, yet I am still too close to know if it is possible to do it justice. I am a (supposed) adult who has had more exposure to terrorism
than most New Yorkers and have an ability 'get used' to new status quos quicker than many. You have repeatedly said that Gargoyles would remain child friendly, even if the topics became more mature. I cannot help but think that children are in even more need than adults to make sense of these events and how it changes us.
thanks for the answers, (and the chance to vent).
Laura
Laura,
I'm tempted not to respond at all. I'm not sure what I could say that would be even half as eloquent as what you just wrote. I know months have passed since you wrote those words, but today they have effected me deeply.
To answer your question... I just don't know. The plan to continue the series where we left off and speed through the years (keeping hard-core fans posted via the internet) made a ton of sense to me before September 11th. Now, of course, everything's changed. It's easy enough to simply NOT show the twin towers. If we're careful it just means we're not pointing the camera that way. And it could be before or after 9/11. But leaving it at that is something of a cop-out.
You've really hit the nail square on the head. How would I, would anyone really, deal with this topic respectfully in a fictional universe? On one level, I'd love to include it -- if for no other reason than to work out some of my own demons about that days events. As you said, the Gargoyles wouldn't even learn about it until sunset.
Then what? I don't think I'd have any of our regulars die in those events. It would seem to cheapen the sacrifices made by real flesh and blood people. Obviously, after the fact, I don't see how I could avoid having Elisa and the Gargs lend a hand. They wouldn't save anyone. How could I allow it? But just try to help.
But even that seems less than respectful. From my vantage in California, it's hard to see a way clear. Ultimately, this probably would never be a decision that would be left in my hands. But if it was, I'd have to take on a consultant (or two or ten). Representatives of all aspects of the event. People who were involved.
That's the best I can come up with now? It's all too hypothetical and painful to figure out in more detail.
But in the simplest terms if what you're asking me is whether or not the towers came down on 9-11-01 in the Gargoyle Universe, then the answer is yes.
When was Bodhe's son, MacBodhe, killed?
Hold on, I'll check.
1033.
Behold the following exchange (then skip to the bottom):
Received from pc-17.di.uoa.gr on Monday, September 17, 2001 04:52:03 AM
Aris Katsaris writes...
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
Greg responds...
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
recorded on 03-04-02
With all this in mind...
I know I've established -- both here and in my own head (particularly with regards to G2198) that eggs hatch on the Spring Equinox.
But does anyone remember whether (and where) I've established what month the eggs are laid in?
I can't recall if this has come up yet.
Anyone know? And would this solve my problems at all?
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
-------------
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
when was the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act signed? if you won't tell the exact year can you tell if it was within 10 years or so of 2198 or was it in Elisa's lifetime or somewhere in between?
I'm not saying right now.
1. Is Hunter's Moon a specific day or week of the year?
2. If so could you give us the date(s)?
In 1996, Hunter's Moon was on Saturday, October 26th. I doubt it's on the same night every year, since we operate on a solar, rather than a lunar calender. Anyone else know how this works?
Is Renard still alive in 2001?
I'm not 100% sure. Certain events between 1997 and the present are in a bit of flux, given that I haven't had a venue for stories.
in "Sentinel" when Elisa has lost her memory and Goliath is trying to explain things to her, he says that they have been friends for over a year. i would've thought that at that time it was around two years, am i wrong? have you gotten this far in your chronology? how far are you in the chronology?
oh, and what is the earliest date in your chronology of the Garg Universe?
They met in the fall of '94. Sentinel took place in the spring of '96. Over a year, right?
And I don't have the timeline with me here at home...
It's forever a work in progress, but it's 'done' for now.
I forget the earliest date. But the last date at the moment is 2198. I know a few things that happen after 2198, but I haven't set a date for them yet.
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
I've been through this carefully. But I'm at my Disney office at the moment and the timeline is in Beverly Hills. I'm fairly confident that I'm right about this. But I can't check your math or your premises here.
So I'm afraid, you'll have to ask this again if you want an answer.
I've enjoyed reading the G2198 proposal, but now I'm going back into the Ask Greg archive for a question. On 9/5/2000 you posted that the G2158 revamp forced you to go back and make adjustments to both DARK AGES and "Three Brothers." It also necessitated minor changes to TIME DANCER and clarified your thinking on PENDRAGON and BAD GUYS. (end of paraphrase) I can see where it would change TIME DANCER, but what kinds of things did you have to change in the other spin-offs? I'm not asking for specifics, just a general idea.
I had to think about the nature of Arthur's immortality.
I had to posit forward what happens to a lot of characters in a lot of shows.
I realized in doing more detailed math that Tachi did not hatch until after Brooklyn, Katana, Nash and Fu Dog returned to 1997. When they came back, she was still an egg.
Basically, I went through the entire TimeLine (all I know of it at least) from WAY, WAY back when to 2198. I literally went through every episode and assigned days and dates to every canon event in the 66 episodes I was involved in.
It took me a year. From G2000 to G2001. But the good new is that now I'm fairly confident that I got it right. When I have the timeline with me, which I don't at the moment, I can speak from real confidence about all this stuff.
at any time in history, lets say 0AD to 2200AD, were there ever wild garg beasts or packs of wild garg beasts running around somewhere? i mean like garg beast that were not attached to a clan of gargoyles, just on their own, or have beast always been domesticated pets of gargoyles?
By Zero AD they were domesticated.
Are the events in "Turf" and "Vendettas" ment to be happing at the same time? If they are, why wasn't Bronx with Goliath and Hudson in Vendettas and why were they gone for two night? If they wern't, why was it that Goliath, Hudson and Bronx were away two nights in Turf?
Also, In "Turf", why does Jack Danforth(is that his name) know so much about the Prison system and where Dracon was held? And what made Danforth want to join in the mob buisness? Don't the Feds keep a watch on their relocated witnesses? For that matter, why was Jack a relocated witness? What was he a whitness of?
Merci
The events depicted in "Vendettas" (not counting the 7/18/96 prologue in Scotland) took place between August 1st and 2nd, 1996. Though neither Goliath or Hudson made it back to the clock tower before sunrise on the morning of the 2nd. The events of "Turf" took place between August 2nd and 3rd. Bronx was having his own little adventure at that time.
Jack Danforth (aka Jack Dane) has been in the prison system. And he still has friends inside. He made it his business to know. Dane wasn't joining the mob business. He was REJOINING the mob business. He was a mobster who was at odds with the Dracon family and had (at some point) testified against them. The Feds were aware that Dane had un-relocated. But they needed evidence to bring him in. Elisa eventually provided that evidence.
What is the year, and month, that Brooklen starts, and finishes, his time dancing? What happens in the 5 minutes he is gone?
My current thinking is that Brooklyn vanishes in 1997. (I haven't pinned down the month.) And he's probably gone less than five minutes actually. Broadway and Angela (and maybe Lex) just have time to say something like, "Oh no, will we ever see our dear friend again?" (only better dialogue) before he reappears.
Okay, you'll need your timeline out, so please have it handy or don't answer these questions until you have it. Thank you.
In the Gargoyles Universe, what years were the following people born:
(all the original one's from the Arthur legends)
1) Merlin?
2) Morgana le Fay?
3) Nimue?
4) Gwenyvere?
5) Lancelot?
6) Blanchefleur?
7) Gawain?
8) Percival?
9) Galahad?
Haven't pinned a single one of these down at this time. Given that I have pinned down Arthur's dates, it wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate the rest -- if by too hard you meant weeks (if not months) of research and development.
If gargoyles evolved before humans and the fay, what did they to protect?
Each other, as usual, and whatever else was around. Also that long ago, I'm not guaranteeing that GARGOYLES PROTECT was the big slogan.
1) what year was demona hatched?
2) was demona biologicaly younger in 994 ad or 1040 ad after the deal with macbeth and the weird sisters?
1. 938.
2. 994. In 994, she was biologically 28. In 1040, after the bargain, she was 35 (Macbeth's chronological age). She still looks great though, doesn't she?
The Gargoyles were asleep for exactly 1000 years, was this 1000 years to the month? week? day?
The Magus cast his spell putting the gargoyles to sleep on October 1st, 994.
The clan awakens again on Tuesday, October 4th, 1994.
So it was just over a thousand years.
Here's a math question based on the list of characters' ages you posted a while back:
The Wyvern eggs were scheduled to hatch in 998, but they were taken to Avalon in 996. The two years remaining would stretch into 48 years, so the eggs should hatch around 1044.
Angela and the Avalon clan are listed as being 917 years old in 1995, meaning they hatched in 1078. That's a 34 year difference.
Even if their hatching was naturally delayed to coincide with the outside world, it seems that 1058 would be the closest year.
Could you explain where my logic or my math is off? I don't doubt what you've said; I just don't understand it. Thanks.
Good question.
Here's where you got off. The eggs were taken to Avalon on September 28th, 995. Not 996.
I was going to take another stab at the 2198 contest, but there are a lot of guesses in the queue and mine are already taken. There's a good chance that by the time you read this the contest will be over. At least I hope it is.
Someone had asked whether you would post your timeline here and you said you weren't sure what you'd do with it yet. It seems to me that it would make a good prize for the winners of the 2198 contest. It's just a suggestion; what do you think? If there are secrets in it that you still want to keep, you could award an abridged version of it.
Spoken like a man who's won the contest. No, the timeline isn't the prize. It's currently over 200 pages long. Just xeroxing and shipping it would be a bit costly, and yeah, it's got a few things in it that I'm not yet ready to reveal.
And who's got time to abridge it? Not me.
But I think you and Matt'll like the prize.
Todd, sent me your addresses. I'll e-mail you both after the Gathering is over.
Did gargoyles originate from Asia? Afterall half of the eight clans originated there and in east Asia there is about three clans presently living there meaning that there might have been a large abundance of gargoyles clans living there and also the people in Ishimura don't fear the gargoyles meaning that gargoyles must have lived there quite along time for the humans to get use to them.
I'm not saying at this time. But in any case, you're logic above doesn't wash.
The survival of three clans in Asia hardly proves anything, as each clan survived for very specific reasons. And every one of the seven old clans have been in place for centuries. And at one point or another, all got along with humans. The Ishimurans managed to maintain the relationship, but it hardly suggests or guarantees a geographic origin in Japan.
After all, two clans also survived in Great Britain -- a much smaller area than all of Asia -- so by your logic, we might assume that Gargoyles originated there.
But I'm not confirming any of it. Asia, Britain or somewhere else? I'm not saying now.
Greg, in a reply to matt's question you said Boudicca is older than Bronx. But how could that be since Bronx was with the rest of the clan in 994 A.D. and I'm guessing Boudicca is a beast which hatched with the rest of the garg eggs that were taken to Avalon? How could Boudicca be older than Bronx if this is true? I would not think that is should have to do with anything about how time passes more slowly on Avalon either, because logically Bronx would still be older or about the same age even though he was stone for a 1000 years.
Boudicca is biologically older than Bronx. Bronx is chronologically older than Boudicca.
Boudicca is the same biological age as Angela, who is approximately the same biological age as the Trio. (Though CHRONOLOGICALLY, the Trio is MUCH older.)
Bronx is chronologically twenty years younger than the Trio. Biologically ten years younger. Which makes him approximately ten biological years younger than Boudicca.
Whew!
oh, and also in the age of characters list you said that Yama is 29 and Sora is 19. their mates, and i thought there were never mates from different generations, Broadway and Angela being the exception. i figured that gargs mated among their rookery siblings because that way they wouldn't find a mate in a close (i.e. brother and sister) biological relative. so is it common for gargs to mate between generations? or are Broadway/Angela and Yama/Sora very different from the norm?
Broadway and Angela are a very unusual case for OBVIOUS reasons. (He was asleep for 1000 years. She grew up on Avalon. As a result they are nearly the exact same age biologically.)
Yama and Sora are atypical. But their love is not unheard of.
I don't ever recall saying that gargs from separate generations couldn't or wouldn't mate. It's just not particularly common.
The Children of Oberon who are the gods of legends thus they must be the first race and they are made of pure magic. The gargoyles who are the second race have some magic in them since they can turn themselves and their equipment into stone. While humans who are the third race can't perform any feats of magic unless they have a spell book. So my question is the magic energy on the Earth diminishing?
Faulty premise.
Gargoyles are the first of these three. That is, the oldest. They don't do any magic themselves. Turning to stone is a biological process. Turning they're gear to stone was a human magical spell, inflicted upon them.
Humans evolved second.
The Children incubated in magic and "evolved" third.
In response to Jim R.
Sorry to sound pompous
But our sun is a main sequence star and thus will never supernova. Our sun will as you say in about 6 billion years grow to a red giant and it may ingulf the Earth or it just may push the planets away from itself repsecting the relations ship of mass to gravity. The last stage in our sun's life will be the white dwarf and black dwarf stages and by then all life on earth will likely be dead. Except for Demona and Macbeth if they haven't killed eachother by now. Oberon's children will most likely not die either being that eternal beings don't die.
The timeline does not as yet extend out that far.
i was wondering how far you were on the revised timeline of the series and if you planned on posting it here when you finish. no pressure to get it done or anything, but alot of your answers to questions say things to the effect of: "Don't know, haven't gotten that far in the chronology yet." so i'm a bit anxious to see it...
I'm currently working on October of 1996 (though the entire thing is in flux until I've finished this pass -- which has to go through 2198 at least.)
As to posting it, I'm not sure. Haven't decided what I'm going to do with it yet.
Do gargoyles need to bathe, or are body odours etc disposed of via stone sleep?
Bathing helps periodically.
Since you don't have the characters' specific age with you now, care to arrange them according from Hudson(he's the oldest, no?)to baby Alex? A-Z? Thanks!
I'm at MY office today, so I do have some access. My timeline isn't yet fully REWORKED, so all of the following is tentative. But as of 12-31-95, here are the ages of many of our cast:
King Arthur 1510 (57).
Hudson 1117 (59).
Demona 1057 (35).
Goliath 1057 (29).
Coldstone 1057 (28).
Trio 1037 (19).
Magus dead at 1029 (71)
Katharine 1019 (61).
Bronx 1017 (9).
Tom 1009 (54).
Macbeth 990 (52).
Ang, Gab, Oph, Boud 917 (19).
Fiona 107.
Mace Malone dead at 100.
Leo, Una, Kai 97 (49).
Dominic 93.
Zaf, Obsid 77 (39).
Dane 76.
Jade, Turq, Yama 57 (29).
Peter 53.
Diane 49.
Xanatos 40.
Sora 37 (19).
Jason, Matt 31.
Fox, Robyn 29.
Elisa 27.
Talon, Dracon 25.
Jon 23.
Beth 20.
Thailog 1 (29).
Note, the numbers in parentheses represent biological age when it differs from their actual chronological age.
Alex was not yet born at that time. My current thinking pegs his birthdate as 7-9-96, a Tuesday.
Timeline questions:
1.What year did Iago decieve Othello about Desdemona and Goliath?
2.When were Luach, Canmore and Gillecomgain born?
3.For that matter have you decided what's the exact date of Elisa's birth?
All dates are tentative, at least until I finish my current reworking of the Timeline. But this is as up-to-date as I have it. (You caught me in the right office today.)
2. Gillecomgain was born in 982.
1. Iago deceived Othello in 993.
2. Canmore was born in 1031.
2. Luach was born in 1033.
3. Elisa was born in 1968. I haven't given her a specific birthdate at this time.
By the way, if anyone sees a reason why these dates (or any others I might post) don't make sense, don't hesitate to let me know.
Not that you would.
how long had Demona and Thailog been a couple when Goliath arrived in Paris? how long had Demona and Macbeth been in Paris?
The following dates are tentative, based on my current reworking of the timeline -- still a rework in progress.
Demona and Macbeth arrived in Paris on 1-1-96.
Demona first encountered Thailog on 1-2-96.
Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx arrived in Paris on 1-21-96.
I as curious to know if gargoyles lived in North America before Columbus discovered it in 1492? I mean, surely the native americans (Indians) must have seen them. Because the episode involving Raven and Grandmother specifically indicates totem poles in the forms of gargoyles.
Actually, you weren't paying close attention. We made a point of saying the totem poles were not modeled on Gargoyles. (Raven lies about this, but Grandmother is clear. And by the end of the episode, it's also clear who to trust.)
Having said that, I have every reason to believe that Gargs lived in North America before 1492. After all, they clearly lived in South America before 1492.
Chronology questions, instigated by the City of Stone memo you posted... What years did the births of Gillecomgain, Canmore and Luach take place?
I know this. But it's at my Beverly Hills office, not here at Disney. SOrry. Try again later.
Dear Greg:
To make up for lost time, if/when the series comes back, how would you conduct the timeline?
Would you <a> speed up the timeline?
<B> Continue on at a careful pace and allow the plot time to grow until it eventually made up for the lost time?
Or <c> Forget the timeline you wanted and shorten it, bringing the gargoyles back to the current date in a few episodes?
Hey! Just curious... I'll just be glad the show is back, no matter how it is caught up!
If I'm reading you're question right, then I think <B> is closest to what I have in mind.
(But I'm not sure I'm reading you're question right.)
Have you ever planned out the way Demona and Macbeth meet
their demise, or do they just continue living for years and years? Have you even planned that far...?
Yes, I know.
I've planned many things VERY far out. Some of these things are random. Other things, I don't yet have a clue about.
You must have reached this point in your timeline: When were Griff, Leo and Una hatched?
1898.
And no, I haven't gotten to M.I.A. either in the present. But because I knew it had a flashback scene, I actually did the 1940 stuff before I started on the other episodes. That lead to figuring out their hatchdate.
I was looking through the archives and i found that you had said a LONG time ago that Yama was in his late twenties (biologically) in 1996. doesn't this mean that he already has had the oppurtunity to mate (at 20)? also, how many generations older is Kai than Yama and Sora?
I'm still working on my timeline revision, and I haven't gotten to these details as yet. I'm currently working on December of 1995, so I haven't yet dealt with the episode Bushido in any detail, and thus the ramifications of that episode -- even those that predate 1995 -- still haven't been accounted for in the revised document. Instead of guessing, I'd rather you give me the next six months to figure it out correctly once and for all. My goal is to be done by the next Gathering in Los Angeles.
I asked this question before and you responded
"I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it."
So now I'm resubmitting it:In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?
I think Goliath and Demona mated a tad young. A few of the Trios contemporaries may have mated at the time of the massacre, but most would not have.
I have a little question connected to 'Vows'.
In 975 Goliath and Demona/'Angel' were 37 chronolgically, I think, and this seems to be a little young to be committing themselves to eacch other (compared to the trio, who were the same age in 994 but were single). Does that mean that the Trio mated late and the rest of their rookery siblings already have mates in 994, or did Demona and Goliath become mates long before their other brothers and sisters?
I don't have my timeline with me, so I cannot assume the premise of your question is correct. Please resubmit it.
In you rmble about vows you mentioned a timeline that you had made that shows the ages of the characters at different times. You mentioned the captain of the gaurd being 29 in 975. You you post this timeline somewhere? It sounds interesting.
I haven't finished revising that timeline. I'm currently on November of 1995. And frankly, the whole timeline is in flux until I finish at least through 2200. So I have a ways to go before I can post it.
Um, noticed something wierd with the age thing in the old archive. It said that Goliath was around 58 years of age biologically, and chronologically that made him 29. But we see that Demona is also 58, yet her chronological age was typed as 35. And Othello's was typed as 28. How come? How is it that they are all generally the same age, yet they have different chronological agings?
And whoa! I never really paid that much attention to it before. But Angela is actually older than the trio! By about 14 years biologically, and at least four years chronologically. WAs there an adding typo here? Cause - lesse - *get's out calculator* - Well, Goliath's age definately checks out. But in order for Demona to be 35 chronologically, she'd need to be seventy biologically, making her 20 years older than her siblings. And Othello would need to be 56 biologically in order to be 28 crhonologically.
Then again, for Demona the extra years can be accounted to her 1000 plus years of wandering and mahem. But still, how could she be that much older chronologically? Or am I missing something here?
I think you're mixing a bunch of different responses up a bit.
Demona and Goliath and Othello were all the same chronological and biological ages until the night of the massacre. At that point, Othello died, and thus stopped aging. Goliath went to sleep for a thousand years. Demona KEPT aging, until she made her trade with Macbeth. Macbeth was 35 at the time, so Demona became a permanent biological 35.
As for the rest of your post, I'm away from my office and my NEW REVISED timeline at the moment, so I can't be too specific about stuff. But I think you've mixed things up.
Hoping you have your timeline with you, what year did Iago convince Othello that Desdemona was involved with Goliath, in the Dark Ages?
Sorry, I don't have it with me. I'm in my (once a week) Disney office. The Timeline is back at my own B.H. office.
Aris and I were discussing this in the comment room, and I thought that I'd ask you about this. I hope that you can answer this question without giving too much away about what you'd planned for the Halloween Double Date episode.
In 1996, the real-life Hunter's Moon fell on October 26. I'm assuming, therefore, that that would have also been the night of the Hunter's Moon in "Gargoyles", when Goliath and his clan confronted both the Canmores and Demona at St. Damien's. In such a case, Halloween would be just five days after the final night in the three-parter.
Now, I found myself wondering recently whether the double date of the sort that you'd described would even be feasible on Halloween less than a week after the gargoyles had been exposed to the city and the world, given that I seriously doubt that things would have settled down that much yet (and I can't even help but suspect that Halloween in the Big Apple would probably be a rather subdued affair after the revelation that some "creatures of the night" really do exist). On the other hand, your description of the Double Date and the events leading up to it makes it sound (to me, at least) as if it would have been taking place not long after the Kiss, so I find it a little hard to believe that it would be Halloween 1997 that it would be taking place on.
I don't know if you've tackled this question on your Gargoyles Timeline as yet, but I would like to know what your thoughts are on it (if you can give them without revealing too much).
I'm not that far on the revised timeline. I'm currently in late September of 1995. I can't answer you yet. Up until very recently, I only thought in terms of years. Never months, let alone days. For example, I didn't know until AFTER Hunter's Moon went on the air that the actual Hunter's Moon was in October. Once I've covered everything through Journey (and dealt with what I KNOW about 2198) then I will begin to fill in the blanks in between.
(Does it help or hurt to know that sometimes I'm just winging it?)
Greg,
Thanks again for hearing me out.
You have mentioned before the relationship between one gargoyle to another is by what rookery they were hatched in.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Broadway, Brooklyn, and Lexington were well on there way to adulthood by the time of the massacre. Angela wasn't even hatched. Now when the trio pursued her, wouldn't that be like rookery fathers wanting to mate with one of their daughters? Please clear this up
They weren't old enough to be fathers at the time those eggs were layed. That and the fact that age-wise by the time they met, they were contemporaries, makes it a non-issue.
A small tidbit that you revealed through the last contest was that the hatching of the eggs takes place in March 21st - the Spring Equinox, that is.
Now, I always felt it would be on an equinox or a solstice- those are the only dates that make sense really... Is the laying of the eggs also done on the Spring Equinox (ten years earlier ofcourse)?
How about the egg's conceiving? Have you decided how much time is spent between the eggs's conceiving and laying?
That's interesting. Maybe.
As for conception, maybe I'll make it a six month term and put it on the fall equinox.
The truth is I chose March 21st because it's my son's birthday. But sometimes things in the Garg Universe just seem to come together. It's cool that way.
1. The Guatemala clan has only for members left, but the claneggs all survived, haven´t they?
1a) About how many eggs are there?
1b) When will they hatch?
2. There are also eggs in Ishimura, England, Korea, Loch Ness, New Olympus and China, aren´t they?
2a) Are there any gargoyle-eggs located at other places, today?
1. Yes.
1a. Forty to fifty.
1b. They hatched in 1998. Unless something went wrong.
2. Yes.
2a. Not that I know of.
You remembered how you said that the events in Turf and Vendetta could have happened at the same time.
Did Avalon Part Three and Kingdom occur at the same time? Here's what I mean.
1. Talon asked Xanatos where Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx were. He didn't know. So that mean Goliath and company didn't disturb his projects in Eygpt, Scotland, etc.
2. Goliath, Elisa, Bronx, and Angela were probably fighting The Archmage's group while Brooklyn, the Manhattan clan, and the mutates were fighting Fang.
1. Kingdom clearly took place before Golem, which took place before Grief. I'm not sure, Xanatos had a way of finding out what exactly went wrong in Loch Ness or Giza, however. Who would have hung around to tell him?
2. I don't think it was quite that early, but I haven't worked it out so precisely yet. I'm working on that now, slowly but surely. Ask me again in the spring.
You gave the ages of most of the characters before. I found the answer in the Old Archives (do a search for the word "biological" and you'll eventually come to it). A few people have asked about ages on the "Questions Being Submitted" page, so it's quite possible that you'll have give this answer by the time you get to this question. Just in case you haven't, here is your original response:
Ages in parenthesis represent biological age when that age differs from the character's chronological age.
As of December 31, 1996:
Hudson - 1118 (59)
Goliath - 1058 (29)
Trio - 1038 (19)
Angela - 952 (21)
Bronx - 1018 (9)
Demona - 1058 (35)
Coldstone - 1058 (28)
Macbeth - 991 (52)
Xanatos - 41
Fox - 30
Alexander - not yet 1
Elisa - 28
Talon, Dracon - 26
Beth - 21
Katharine - 1020 (62)
Tom - 1010 (52)
Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca - 952 (20)
Thanks.
how old are all the manhatten gargoyles?
In biological or chronological years?
Gargoyles are the "second sentient race"! What was the one that did not manage to hang on? Were they completely native to this planet? Did they have any genetic descendents surviving onto today or at least times when modern humans existed? Did they have any involvement in the rise of the other sentient races of this planet?
1. I'm not telling.
2. They were native to the planet. Wouldn't count if they weren't. (For example, I don't count Nokkar as one of the sentient races on Earth.)
3. Don't overthink. But Yes.
4. Define "involvement".
I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.
But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...
THE MEMO (unedited):
To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436
Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES
GENERAL NOTES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)
Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.
After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.
Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).
This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.
SPECIFIC NOTES
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.
Page 1.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.
Page 2.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".
Page 3.
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.
Page 7
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".
Page 11
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.
Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.
ACT ONE
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.
2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.
3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--Police motto.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.
4. Castle
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?
5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."
6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.
ACT TWO
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.
8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.
9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.
10. Castle.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)
11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.
ACT THREE
12. Times Square.
--Stand-off.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.
13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?
14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.
15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.
16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.
17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."
18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."
19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
--FADE.
End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.
"Long Way To Morning" This was my title, based on an idea I'd had from way early in the development of the series. It was always obvious to me that the fact that the gargs turned to vulnerable stone at sunrise, gave the series a built-in ticking clock that added tension. But given the gargoyles' healing factor (to borrow a Wolverine term) it occured to me early on that there might come a time when sunrise couldn't come fast enough. That was the origin of this episode and the title. (I think I may have even mentioned the scenario in the Series' Writers' Bible.)
The other obvious purpose of the episode was to give Hudson a showcase episode to equal the Trio tryptich. As I've mentioned before, Gargoyles was originally developed as a comic series, and one of the funny little gargoyles in that show was "Ralph", a very domestic couch potato Gargoyle who loved to stay at home and watch T.V. Hudson developed out of Ralph, but he spent much of the first few episodes "Guarding the castle" (or the clock tower). We'd given him some great action in AWAKENING. But we still felt a major need to UN-RALPH him.
I wanted to deal with his age as realistically as possible. To have him doubt himself, maybe even be aware of his limitations, but then have him prove to himself that he still had something to contribute. I think we basically succeed in that here.
But this ep afforded us other opportunities as well. Opportunities to explore Wyvern backstory in our parallel flashback story:
--We find out definitively that Hudson WAS the leader of the clan and that Goliath was his second. We also get to see the baton get passed.
--We learn how Hudson was blinded in one eye.
--We meet Prince Malcolm and get a sense of how Princess Katharine became the bitch she was at the start of "Awakening". I think this was very important in paving the way for her role in the "Avalon" tryptich. By the end of "Awakening", she's remorseful and has seen the error of her ways, but it doesn't change how badly she acted. But this episode reveals how and why her antipathy toward Gargoyles was created. It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it helps to explain it enough so that we can buy her as a heroine when we next see her. Malcolm doesn't come off as well. I wanted to present how easily casual thoughtless words could be hurtful, and even lead to tragic consequences. My daughter Erin (age 5 1/2) had seen this episode at least once before. But this time, that aspect of Malcolm's inadvertent damage and Katharine's mistaken blame really grabbed her attention. The injustice of it really troubled her. Which is exactly the response I was looking for. (My kids are so cool. She also noticed Hudson's eye getting injured, and commented on how smart Hudson was to jump off into the waterfall.)
--I love the subtle changes that Jeff, Keith and Marina made in their voices when playing the young Magus, Goliath and Demona. It's interesting to see Demona's progression in hindsight from "Vows" to "Long Way" to "Awakening, Part One" to "City of Stone" to the present day. She really is a fascinating character, if I do say so myself. Here, you see her ambition. But no villainy. Of course, it made for a nice counterpoint with her vicious murderous tendencies in the present day story.
--Throughout production of this episode, I had to keep pointing out to the artists, etc., that the flashbacks all had a point of view, i.e. Hudson's. That Demona and Goliath's "private conversations" could NOT be as private as they thought. Hudson had to know what they were saying about him. Both because it further eroded his confidence in both the past and present (the true demon he had to overcome) and because if he didn't hear those conversations it would be cheating to include them in HIS dreams and flashbacks.
--We also intro'd the ARCHMAGE. A one-shot villain if I ever saw one, except that David Warner was so amazing, I knew I had to bring the character back. When he falls into the chasm, you can just here the Phoenix Gate exploding open down there. (Of course, to some people that sounded like him hitting bottom. Their mistake.)
Continuity:
Brooklyn still has it in for D. Broadway is now Ultra-Protective of Elisa. Hudson has superior tracking skills in the past and the present.
And Demona has clearly focused her hatred on Elisa. (Who, by the way, loses her second gun of the series.) It was important for these early episodes that we fool Demona into thinking that Elisa was dead. Otherwise, how else do we explain why she doesn't just kill her.
Demona at the end, uses her cannon as a club. This was designed to be ambiguous. Did Hudson's sword damage the weapon? Or was Demona just so furious that she wanted the satisfaction of cudgeling the old guy to death? Yeah, it was designed to be ambiguous, but no one ever EVER thought that the gun was damaged. They all assumed Demona just lost it. Which is probably true.
Speaking of that Waterfall thing, that image was important retro-pipe for Hunter's Moon, Part Three. (More on that in 54 chapters.)
Animation-wise, I just wish Demona hadn't come off as such a lousy shot.
I love Hudson and Goliath's last exchange. Goliath assures Hudson that he still has "Years of fighting left". Hudson, glad to be of use, is still less than thrilled at the prospect. It's a great wry beat, but it was also important to me to point out that no rational person would wish to fight like that forever. The gargs, including Hudson, fight the good fight because they have to, because it is their duty, part of their natural protective instincts. But none of them WANT to fight.
As usual, I'd like to encourage responses to this episode here at ASK GREG, particularly how you responded to viewing this for the first time.
Has Macbeth or any other of your immortal/unaging characters (fays and the like) ever assumed a name we would recognize from the history books (as opposed to mythology)? And if so (though I don't expect you to reveal what that famous disguise would be :-), would you tell us which ones of your characters has indeed done so?
Yes. And good guess. And no, not now.
In how much detail have you plotted the lifes of Macbeth and Demona in the years between 1057 and 1994? Do you know only some tidbits of their lifes (as for example the one you mentioned that Macbeth knew Shakespeare) or have you plotted them and their movements to some greater extent?
Did Macbeth and Demona meet any time between 1057 and 1995? Or was 'City of Stone' their first meeting after so many centuries? Did they meet the Weird Sisters again?
The Weird Sisters were watching them, but I think largely with maybe a couple of exceptions, they stayed out of sight.
Macbeth and Demona definitely had a handful of encounters over the centuries.
As for what I've plotted, well, as you said, I have a few tidbits and a sense of the sweep. But, no, I don't have a detailed account in my head of what happened to each character.
In the gargoyles bible for the first season you had made mention of the existence of a 'very wise man' who first made an alliance with gargoyles building his castle of a gargoyle rookery and who ushered in the golden age of gargoyle-human relations...
Is this still how you picture it happening? The existence of a specific 'very wise man' was intriguing to me - is he just a generic figure, or someone whose name we would recognize? (I have my own idea on the subject ofcourse but I refrain from suggesting it in case it's considered a story-idea)
I was being generic in the bible on purpose to simplify things. Honestly, I don't think I ever really thought there was just one person who did that. The world was too big a place and there wasn't any internet back then to facilitate communication. So that "wise man" was a place holder in my mind for a number of intelligent humans and gargoyles who made multiple alliances over multiple centuries in multiple places.
One such alliance of "wise men" was the alliance formed between Hudson and Malcolm, which was brokered by Robbie.
Another alliance was that formed between Xanatos and Demona, brokered by Owen, with a little help from Brooklyn, Mary and Finella behind the scenes.
I'll mention here that I've reintroduced myself to Gargoyles only this summer via fan webpages and I've managed to get Toon Disney for only a month. Therefore, while not completly updated on every detail of each episode, I do remember quite a bit from the original airdates of them. And if this question has been asked before, forgive me, but I've only frequented Ask Greg for three months. If it's in the archives somewhere, just point the way. SOOO, without further ado...
I remember in a past question where you mentioned recycling characters. (Morgan, Margot and Brendan, Vinnie, etc.) While watching the AVALON episodes, I noticed that many of Angela's rookery sibs were identical to those gargoyles seen in Demona's renagade clan from 2nd century, right down to the clothing. As I understood it, she collected THEM from other clans that were destroyed throughout Scotland. No way for their eggs to end up in Wyvern's rookery, or even on Avalon for that matter.
So, here's the question: were these gargs mearly another batch of recycled characters? And if so, why use them on Avalon? Did you see any kind of conflict coming from this? Or is there another reason altogether that I'm missing entirley?
By the way, I REALLY envy you for having created such a great story, with all these fictional and factual elements mixed in to create the best animated series ever. Wish I'd thought of it :)
If you're looking for the "Behind the Scenes" answer it's pretty obvious. We couldn't afford to design multiple clans of background gargoyles everytime we did a flashback story or went to Avalon. So we reused the models, figuring most people wouldn't notice.
But there's also a within the Universe explanation that works for me. When a Gargoyle clan gets too large for it's location, it splits and colonizes. The Wyvern Clan had been living in relative peace under Prince Malcolm. In my mind it got up to about 100 or so Gargoyles and Beasts. That was too large a number for Wyvern to sustain, so approximately half of the gargoyle population moved on to found a new colony, start a new clan. But all the eggs were left behind in the established Wyvern rookery. The new colony obviously didn't fair any better than Wyvern ultimately, but Demona collected up a few of its survivors, during the Maol Chalvim/Duncan era.
But some of those survivors left eggs behind at the Wyvern rookery, which explains why there are some look-alikes on Avalon.
As for the clothes.... Give me a break.
This is more of a comment/correction rather than a question. I think that you've miscalculated a date. In a previous Ask Greg question you had said that you had once calculated that the gargs both in Avalon and in the real world will lay eggs at 2008. I think that must have been a mistake on your part: I believe that gargoyles lay egg in their 50th or 49th year (biological 25). That would mean that in Avalon-time 50*24=1200 years. The gargs at avalon should lay their eggs only 1200 real-world years after they were hatched. That in turn means that if they were hatched around somewhere around year 1040, they shouldn't lay eggs until 2240 or something like that...
Anyway thought I should mention this...
No, that's not right.
God knows it's been years since I did this math, however I think you are operating on faulty assumptions.
Yes, the Avalon eggs hatched in 1044.
Thus by 1995, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, et al. would all be biologically twenty years old. That's way past Gargoyle puberty in my book. So what remains is for their internal clocks to be in sync, so to speak, with the natural rhythms of the Earth that would put the females "in heat" (for lack of a better term). That would next occur sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.
That easily puts, say, Ophelia in synch with Angela and Obsidiana out in the real world. The difference comes twenty years later in 2028, when the latter two might again lay eggs. But to Ophelia she would have only just laid her first egg a mere 20 months ago. I don't know whether that's enough recovery time for her, enough time for her own internal cycle -- but in any case her first egg certainly wouldn't have hatched yet.
It's also worth considering whether Ophelia and Angela might have been "in heat" in Avalon in 1988? Maybe they were, and maybe Katharine was preaching abstinence in a major way.
Suddenly, I feel like this is Christine's show. :) [No, I haven't read her fan-fiction, but boy have I heard rumors.]
In any case, for those of you with dirty minds, I think Angela was a virgin even at the time of "The Journey". (Broadway too for that matter.) Not so sure about Ophelia.
Mr Weisman,
1) Did biblical events such as Noah's flood occur in the Gargoyles'Universe?
2) If the Noah's flood did occur, did the Gargoyle race survive on the Ark, or in some other way?
I haven't given any specific thought to Noah. (Which is surprising, since my Torah portion at my Bar Mitzvah was on the guy, and those early influences usually stick with me.) There was definitely some flood, some basis for the legend in the Garg Universe, but I haven't worked out the details.
But now it's swimming around in my head, so ask me again in a few months.
Had you planned to show us about any of Tom's journeys through the centuries (when he travelled every hundred years to check up on the clan)?
Can you tell us anything about the quests the Avalon must have sent him to (assuming you have thought about the issue ofcourse)?
Yes and no. I had a few notions (which I won't go into now). On the one hand, given unlimited story telling resources, I would have told those tails. But in a real series, I don't know where they'd fit.
Hey Greg,
Nice of you to remember me, during yer all-night "rant" session...Anyho, here's my questions:
1) What year did Hudson hatch?
2) When exactly was Castle Wyvern built? Demona mentioned,
"That these cliffs were our homes, long before the Humans'"
3)How many eggs can a female Gargoyle lay, at one time?
4) When a female Gargoyle goes into "heat", does she give
off a scent, or something?
5) AND, FINALLY, just where did Thom get his tattoo???
(HINT,HINT,HINT...)
1. 878 A.D.
2. Which time?
3. One.
4. I'm sure she does.
5. Los Angeles... (And I don't have a clue what you're hinting about.)
Also, I should have blown off questions 3-5, cause they're on different topics. But they were short, so you got lucky.
When exactly did Macbeth arrive in America for the very first time? (Colonial, Antebellum, Reconstructionist, etc.)
Back before it was called America.
Upon Brooklyn's arrival in 2158, what would Samson's reaction to him be, considering that since Brooklyn is Goliath's second in command and Goliath is dead, then technically shouldn't that make Brooklyn leader?
How do you figure that? Even "technically"? It's 2158. The leader of the Manhattan Clan is alive and so is his or her second in command. (By the way, when did I say that Samson was the leader of the Manhattan Clan in 2158?)
You're looking for a conflict that doesn't exist.
1. Which is the oldest of the three races in your mind?
2. In HERITAGE, when Raven in Gargoyle form first introduced himself to Goliath and Angela had five fingers. Later when he again appeared as Gargoyle, he had four fingers. Was this an animation error or was it done on purpose as a sort of hint to Raven's true identity?
3. Who designed the Golem? In all the legends I read of the Maharal's (Rabbi Loew) Golem, he was a huge giant but of Manlike proportions, not like he was in the episode, but more like a taller version of Bane from BATMAN & ROBIN.
1. Probably the Gargoyles. I know that comes as a surprise. The obvious answer is the Children, but I have this notion that the magic that birthed them needed a longer gestation time.
The Gargoyles, on the other hand, strike me as very symbiotic with the planet. The first sentient race Earth gave birth to. (Well, the second technically, but we're only counting the three that are still hanging in.) In many ways, tragically, their time has clearly passed. Humanity is ascendant. But Gargoyles aren't dead yet. And ironically, though it was largely humans who wiped out their race, it is also humans who will help to save them in the future. Though many will be dragged kicking and screaming toward that destiny.
In the AskGreg Archive, you wrote: "I expect Angela, Sora, Ophelia, Boudicca, Obsidiana, and Turquesa to all lay eggs in 2008." You said that females share a common cycle and you also said that you wondered if Katana would rejoin that cycle or not. You also said that with Angela, she would. But Boudicca and Ophelia live on Avalon, so in 2008, shouldn't they be out of synch with the real world?
Actually, no. It's literally been years, but back in 1995 I did the math. It works out that 2008 would coincide with the cycles of both Avalon and the outside world.
These are "Ask Me Again Later" questions:
1. At what point in human history did Nokkar arrive on Earth?
2. What year was New Olympus founded?
3. How long did Timedancer spend in 2158 and in Feudal Japan?
1. Ask me again later.
As per our new rules, I invite you to resubmit your remaining questions as multiple separate posts.
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