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"Leader of the Pack" Background memo...

ASK GREG is back up and running. (Thank you, Gorebash.)

Unfortunately, Murphy's Law in in effect, and I'm now swamped with work. (More on that tomorrow.) I'll try to get to your questions and comments A.S.A.P. In the meantime, I've watched another episode "Leader of the Pack". I've taken notes to write a ramble but I don't have time to compose it tonight. But I also wanted to post my July, '94 memo to Michael Reaves regarding his first draft outline on this episode. (Like the one I posted for "Reawakening".) I have a hard copy of this memo, but unfortunately -- there's that Murphy's Law again -- I don't seem to have a computer file for it. (Which, frankly, is truly bizarre.) Still, retyping this is faster than composing something original. But I don't know if I'll have time to retype the entire five page memo tonight. So bear with me. This could take a while... (I'll try to keep all the typos intact. And I'll add a few new comments in [brackets].)

Greg Weisman 7-2-94

NOTES ON OUTLINE for "Leader of the Pack"
Michael, I think we can focus the story a little more. And I think there's quite a bit of padding that we can trim down, but on the whole, a good start.

General Notes...

--Let's focus this by making it Lexington's story. A real companion piece to "Thrill of the Hunt". In that story, Lex was too trusting. In this he'll be hell-bent on REVENGE. That's today's theme. And today's lesson is about setting priorities -- and how revenge ain't a great one. Lex comes close to letting his lust for revenge take priority over his concern for his life and his friends. Same with the Pack. They break prison; they could head for Rio. But they want revenge on the gargoyles more. It gets them in trouble. Ironically, only Xanatos has his priorities straight. He didn't give a damn about revenge on the gargoyles. He just cared about his "friend" Fox and getting her released from her unfortunate incarceration. [A DESIGNING WOMEN reference -- Greg 2000]

--Given the above. Let's see Lex as the true monster he can be. As frightening as possible, as often as possible.

--The stuff w/Dingo's change of heart was nice. It gave me a great idea for a story about him trying to go straight, set in Australia during the WORLD TOUR. But I think it's out of place here. It's distracting to the main story. I don't want Dingo to start to turn yet. He didn't have to come back from Europe to help the others. Let's keep him gung-ho for now. (When we do the Pack Upgrade Story, in which Wolf will submit to Doc Sevarius' genetic treatment ala Talon, and Hyena and Jackal will undergo cyborgizing ala Coldstone, we'll plant the seed there that Dingo thinks things are getting carried away. He'll choose removable robot-armor, and we'll play some of these beats then.) [When you're working on 65 episodes you try not to waste anything. And the characters begin to define their own destinies. But you need to pace them. -- Greg 2000]

--Coyote's abilities need some clarification. Let's start by thinking this is a stranger wearing some kind of power-armor. Jet black, anubis-headed armor. We'll modify or harmonize Jonathan's voice. Then when he removes the dog-faced armored head, we reveal that it's Xanatos inside the armor. The audience will buy this because of "The Edge" story. When COYOTE has the "helmet" off, we'll use Jonathan's voice un-harmonized. But obviously for battle scenes he'll put the helmet back on. A slight clue that Coyote isn't the real Xanatos will be that Coyote seems more determined to get revenge than we'd normally expect from the rational Xanatos we've come to know and love. Then at the end, we'll reveal the robot beneath the Xanatos face. We also need to make a bigger deal of this reveal. I think it would be cool, if after the body is damaged beyond repair, the semi-damaged head, takes off, shooting into the sky like a comet, abandoning the Pack. At any rate, we can now have Coyote be very powerful throughout the episode, without our audience suspecting the truth. What can the Coyote "armor" (i.e. the Coyote/Xanaots robot) do? Does it have built-in jet-boots and weapons systems? Let's make it real tough and cool.

--In general, we need to be really careful not to let the Pack seem weak or incompetent. I doubt Elisa can outshoot them. They've been defeated twice already. If we don't up the ante, we've lost these characters as effective adversaries.

--The huge emphasis on updrafts can be dumped. We've already shown the gargoyles glide to and from Liberty Island in "The Edge". How far out in the water is this tanker? Better not to go into too much detail.

--Same with the Pack's search for the gargoyles. Why raise the issue about how easy it is to find the gargoyles? Besides, the method used here could take weeks, if not months. Let the gargoyles find the Pack. We can dump the CD-ROM disk.

--The mirrored shields was a good idea. But it pre-supposes a Lexington who is rational enough to use his head and come up with it. Not this story. But remember it for later use. [O.K. I guess some things did get wasted. --Greg 2000]

--We definitely don't need or want Derek in this story. If it comes before "Metamorphosis" than we don't want to mess with his loyalty to Xanatos. If it comes after, then obviously he's not Derek anymore, but Talon. Anyway, we won't need him. The way I figure it, Elisa's role in this story is fairly minimal. I didn't like her as victim/hostage, so I largely dumped her. So we can leave Derek out, as well.

--Fox should protect he guard first, then refuse to go. When she refuses Hyena's inclined to kill her too. Coyote prevents it by indicating there's no time. Also, I've cut the middle Fox scene 14. Better that the audience forget about her until the end.

Specific Notes & Questions....
[to follow tomorrow, hopefully...]


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Aaron writes...

At approximately what rank did Peter Maza retire from the NYPD? (Equivalent to Morgan, Matt and Elisa, Capt. Chavez, etc)

Greg responds...

Who said he's retired? He's a desk sergeant at a different precinct.

Response recorded on April 07, 2000

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Chapter XII: "Her Brother's Keeper"

I think Michael Reaves came up with this title. I wanted to shorten it to "Brother's Keeper" so that it would implicitly include the Trio, Goliath and his late rookery-brothers, Jackal & Hyena. But Michael talked me out of it. He was right.

This was the second out of three episodes where we attempted to do Kenner a solid by inserting a toy into the series. The Helicopter was a much more awkward fit than Brooklyn's motorcycle had been. But we all agreed to make it work. Originally, Lex was going to repair Derek's police chopper, but someone suggested using the Pack 'copter instead. So we tried to make it all play as organic as possible. Lex and the Simulator, to set up his ability to pilot the thing. Broadway bringing up the obvious question as to why winged gargs would need a chopper, so that the audience didn't think we were ignoring those points. Etc. And in the end, it still plays artificial. But fortunately it's in an episode that is othewise filled with tremendous emotional honesty. So maybe it all balances out.

Of course, the irony was that Kenner never made a gargoyle helicopter. Without telling us, they switched to a sky sled sorta thing, because they couldn't figure out how to do a helicopter that successfully interacted with the garg-toys' wings. No good deed goes unpunished.

Broadway: "If cops were meant to fly they'd have wings." I love that line.

Derek - This was part of our plan to turn Derek into Catscan. Of course, the Catscan name was eventually dropped for Talon. The original plan for Catscan had him being a scientist that worked for and was duped by Xanatos. Picture us trying to combine Derek and Anton. (I know it's a mind-bender. It was more like Derek's personality and Anton's expertise.) But the Garg Universe told me otherwise once we created Derek for "Deadly Force". He'd be the cursed one. And this was just step one. Step only, if we never got a second season. So we left it open ended. And I think it's a pretty stunning bittersweat ending. The snow starts to fall (all very symbolic) and we don't know if Derek will listen to Elisa's tape of Fox or not. And we leave Elisa, standing, wondering, thinking, as the snow falls. It's not your typical Saturday morning cartoon conclusion -- not even for a drama. What did you all think at the end of that after your first viewing?

The snow became a very important visual metaphor for me. I exchanged a few faxes with Japan to make sure (that contrary to the script) there was NO SNOW on the ground at Xanadu, no snow at all, until it starts falling during Elisa's last conversation with Derek.

CONTINUITY:

Sure, Jackal and Hyena were at large, but we establish here that Wolf and Fox are in prison. Anyone looking back at "Thrill" would know that this makes sense. Lex and Goliath take Dingo, J & H out on the roof. No human witnesses to their evil. And they didn't do anything against anyone but the gargs. But Wolf and Fox were photographed taking human (well, fashion model) hostages. So they go to prison. Dingo goes to Europe. J&H are still around to do mischief. But meanwhile, most normal humans still regard them as celebrities, until Hyena pulls a knife. (We had planned once-upon-a-time to make knives a bigger element/part of their arsenal. But it was a bit problematic S&P-wise, and it became moot after "Upgrade".)

Broadway, ever Elisa's biggest fan, thinks Derek should just trust her.

Brooklyn, still scarred from trusting Demona, points out that trust doesn't mean much without honesty.

Lex, still pissed at the Pack, just wants to catch them.

And it's nice to see Morgan and Matt again. If you like guys in towels.

Xanatos, as usual, is so cool.

"Never a gargoyle around when you need one."

"Detective. Always a pleasure."

"My life is anything but dull."

And that's just his dialogue. His plan is audacious. He has Owen call the Police, counts on Elisa and the gargs to rescue him from Jackal & Hyena. (We loved playing that irony.) And instructs Fox to tell Elisa everything. He's so confident, he even has no qualms about leaving Elisa and Derek alone to talk at the end.

And you gotta love a guy named Xanatos naming his retreat Xanadu.

I love the Hannibal Lechter inspired scene between Elisa & Fox. This of course was the moment when we all figured out what the garg universe already knew: "My god, Fox is in love with Xanatos." I hadn't known that back when Fox was created in the development days of yore. Hadn't known it when we did "Thrill". Hadn't known it until we were way into script on this. But there it was. And nothing would ever be the same. (Did you guys realize it there? And how far did you think we'd take it?)

Suddenly, the events of "Leader of the Pack", "Eye of the Beholder" and "Vows" seemed to spread out before me. And Alexander became a glimmer in my eye (if not Xanatos').

Elisa acts true to form here. What we'd spell out later in "Revelations" is already implied here. Elisa is extremely (if subconsciously) reluctant to share her gargoyles secret with anyone. Three times Goliath tells her to share her secret with her brother. Three times she finds an excuse not to. (Frank Paur found this repetitive. He tried to take one of the scenes and make it play more subjective. Like Elisa imagining a conversation with Goliath, while the actual Goliath was sleeping in stone. It was a sweet idea, but it didn't make any logical sense in terms of story flow and forced us to make storyboard changes and call retakes in order to get the version we've all seen.)

We loved playing irony. Elisa and Peter are right about Xanatos, but dead wrong about the way they're trying to control Derek's life. Diane and Derek are absolutely right about Derek needing to control his own destiny, but make the tragic choice of trusting that destiny to Xanatos. Those two scenes are terrific. (Helped immensely by vocal performances. And I also love Nichelle Nichols as the diamond exchange saleslady.)

Derek thinks Elisa thinks Xanatos is the "Prince of Darkness". "He practically is!" she responds. <SIGH> Tricksters are always being confused with Satan.

But that was more irony. It's not the demonic-looking gargoyles who are being compared to Satan. It's the handsome, rich Bruce Wayne-esque playboy. I guess the goatee helps.

My daughter's reactions:

As you may have gathered, it's become fascinating to me to see how Erin is reacting differently seeing all these episodes for the second time at age 5 1/2.

She was stunned at the end of Act One and following when Derek told Elisa that he was accepting Xanatos' offer. "That's not supposed to happen," she kept saying.

And all the trio stuff made her laugh. She especially liked Goliath's admonitions to the Trio: "Try to get along."

Brooklyn sure knows his pop-culture: Star Wars and Star Trek references within a few minutes of each other.

It was important to us to show that even guys as close as the Trio could get tired of each other. Sure they're all Rookery brothers and best friends. But if they had stayed at Wyvern (i.e. if there had been no massacre) they wouldn't have had to spend ALL their time together. At the very least, females would have provided a distraction. But here in the 20th century they're all they've got. So of course, there'd be good days and bad days. Like any siblings.

And of course, the sibling theme was central to the episode, including the Jackal & Hyena's relationship. The irony there being that they were getting along better than the Trio or the Mazas.

I loved Goliath's outrage at the lack of appreciation that the Mazas and Trio have for their siblings. It's very moving to me. (And helps us set up Coldstone for next episode.)

When Lex comments that if Broadway had his way, the garg-copter would be covered with food, I knew that we were pushing Broadway's eating habits into the dull one-joke tired category. I hate that line. And we tried to back off the eating jokes after that.

Anyone notice our tribute to Launchpad McQuack when Lex says "Any landing you can walk away from..."

Some gorgeous animation in this one. I loved what they did with the lighting when Lex gets Jackal and Hyena in the chopper's spot.

S&P

--The trio toss Jackal & Hyena out of their chopper. It's o.k. They're wearing parachutes. But did the Trio know that? Maybe with Jackal, since Hyena's chute had already opened. But was Hyena tossed to her presumptive death.

Yes. After all they're still thinking (first season) like tenth century warriors, not like twentieth century super-heros.

--One of the advantages to Syndication over Network is a more liberal S&P. We could show Broadway's fist heading into camera. We couldn't actually show him punching Jackal in the head, but we could show Jackal's POV of that fist heading toward him. A couple frames of black, and then we cut wide to Jackal on the ground, and we know what happened. But on Network, in "The Journey" or, say, "Max Steel", we are NEVER allowed to even imply a head blow. And we can't show a fist or gun or whatever pointed directly at camera (i.e. at the audience). Too disturbing, I'm told.

And finally, at the end, when Elisa arrests Hyena, I've got to ask, what do you think Hyena's smiling about?

Maybe that's the next contest...

Hmmm....


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Chapter VIII: "Deadly Force"

Another ramble as I review the entire series. Comments welcome.

"Deadly Force". I have to admit. I never liked the title. It always sounded too generic to me. Michael Reaves pointed out how appropriate it was, but "Temptation" had already given me a taste for one word titles. I came to prefer those, unless I was given a damn good reason not to.

The third episode of our trio tryptich. Broadway. Broadway and Goliath. Broadway, Elisa and Goliath. But this episode represents so much more.

If you were watching the series in '94 during it's original run, and you didn't already think, "Hey, this is different." Then by the end of Act One of "Deadly Force" you knew. I don't know if there's ever been a cartoon like "Deadly Force". A mainstream media production. We had had up to that point a few fairly shocking cliffhangers, a few fairly shocking events, but what equals Broadway pulling that trigger, the suddenly "empty" kitchen and Elisa lying in a pool of her own blood as we fade to black and cut to a commercial?

Where do I start? With pride, I guess. I am extremely proud of this one.

Guns. My personal stance on gun control isn't an issue. Not in this episode. This is about something that I think every even vaguely intelligent person can agree on. Guns aren't toys. Guns aren't "cool", no matter how they're depicted in the media. Guns demand respect. Elisa is at fault. Broadway's massively at fault. Because neither held enough respect for the weapon. (Now one might argue that Elisa lived -- nominally -- alone. It didn't occur to her that she needed to be more careful with her weapon. But it should have. She's a cop. She should know better.) As I write this, as I watched the episode tonight, my head is of course filled with thoughts of the six year old boy who yesterday took his uncle's gun to school and shot a six year old girl, killing her. And I don't want to sound arrogant. But I am angry. And I feel like this episode could really help people. That parents should HAVE to watch this with their kids. Required viewing. And the fact that Toon Disney won't even air it...! I'm furious. Simply furious.

Guns are the least of it. We wanted to send a message about repercussions. Real world repercussions. I wanted our series to be ABOUT repercussions. Demona and the Captain betray Wyvern. There are repercussions. You can't fix things. You can't go back and change it. That's why time travel in the Gargoyles' Universe has such STRICT laws. Without those laws, you remove the dramatic law of repercussions. The real world law that actions have repercussions. This episode was our ode to repercussions. The guns were just our means to an end.

Still, guns would be our medium and the episode is laced with them. With gun imagery. With gun language (e.g. Chavez referring to Dracon's alibi: "He's bulletproof.", etc.). I don't think the episode is too pedantic. I hope it's honest. Probably the most dishonest thing in the story was that Elisa DIDN'T die. Forgive me for that. But I couldn't let her go just then. Still, I think we gave our audience a bigger scare in this one then in most of the other episodes combined. Maybe she would die. There's a sense of scary (again real world) vulnerability in this. And we tried to make her injuries and suffering as realistic as possible. We weren't doing E.R. (or St. Elsewhere, since E.R. didn't exist back then), but we did try to make the medical stuff play true.

All this makes me proud. Proud of what's on the screen.

But there's a whole other side to the making of this show that makes me proud. For what isn't visible on screen. For teamwork. This is a story that seemed to need to be told. Most of the springboards for the 66 chapters came from me, but this one was waiting for us. My bosses Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston were behind the story from the start. Michael Reaves wrote an amazing script, and my God the thing is beautifully made. No one balked. Not our S&P executive. Not our bosses. No one. Think about how amazing that is? We had one of our young heroes pick up a very REAL gun and shoot our female lead in her own kitchen. That's pretty intense.

And fairly rewarding. Even our publicity department saw the value in this one. They got advance copies and sent them out. We had (always had) phenomenally good reviews. But this episode brought us praise from the kind of parents groups that most action cartoon shows usually fear. People got it. They got it. Dr. Madeline Levine wrote a book called "Viewing Violence". It's a fairly sobering study of the effect of modern media on impressionable minds. Disabused me of a few notions, I'll tell you. But she praises GARGOYLES, specifically this episode, in her book. People got it. But not TOON DISNEY people, I guess. They show a huge lack of respect for everyone who worked on that show. Everyone who did or might benefit from it.

(Re: The pool of blood. When it first came back from Japan, the pool of blood was much larger. We pulled it back by calling a retake. This wasn't cowardice on anyone's part. This was us trying to get our message across. We didn't want kids goofing on the pool of blood. Interested in the pool for the pool's sake, so to speak. We wanted enough blood there to make it real. To scare everyone. But we didn't want the pool to be distracting. And also we didn't want to imply that Elisa had already bled out.)

CHARACTERS

Broadway - First and foremost, this was still designed to showcase Broadway. All our nobler aspirations wouldn't matter if you walked out of this episode still thinking of the big guy as an eating machine and nothing else. So let's start by praising Bill Faggerbakke and voice director Jamie Thomason. Bill's performance is wonderfully poignant without falling into bathos.

And man, who is the scariest gargoyle when angered? Goliath? Demona? How about a vote for old Broadway? Guilt and anger tear him apart, and no one's safe. He PALMS Glasses for God's sake. He's young but maturing fast. I only had vague notions of Angela at this time. And I sure didn't know they were destined for each other. But I can see it here. The child who's done something so bad he's afraid to go home, ultimately taking responsibility for actions too horrible for most of us to face. Amazing strength of character.

Elisa - A secondary purpose (tertiary?) was to demonstrate that Elisa was a real human being, with real connections. A real life. She has a boss (introducing Maria Chavez), an apartment (introducing the loft), a cat (introducing Cagney). And she wasn't born a twenty-something police detective. She has a family. A father (introducing Sgt. Peter Maza), a mother (introducing Diane Maza), a brother (introducing Derek Maza) and a sister who's away at college (we even get a photo peak at Beth Maza). This wasn't some cypher who existed only to facilitate things for the Gargoyles. This was a woman whose life extended beyond their reach. A woman who now lived in TWO worlds. With two sets of hospital visitors.

Elisa's ethnic/racial make-up parallels actress Salli Richardson's, who has both African American and Native American ancestry. This is where serendipidy played a roll. We'd later get stories out of her multi-racial background. And it paralleled the inter-species romance we were preparing to build slowly. Sometimes, everything just goes your way.

Goliath - He says he'll find the man who shot Elisa and "Make him Pay". We didn't have to say "kill" there. Again, because this early in the series, we could all easily believe that Goliath could kill. And in fact, when Broadway tells Goliath that he "can't" kill Dracon, Goliath's response is: "You think not?" All the gargoyles had an edge of danger. We may have lost some of that along the way. It's natural. You get to know characters, you stop feeling tense around them. But here, both Goliath and Broadway go a little berserk. And we don't know how they'll act.

And Goliath already loves Elisa. It's so clear to me. The way he touches her hair. The way he reacts to her being shot. He loves her. He doesn't know it yet. But it is SO there. That moment when Goliath tells Broadway that they should go see Elisa, and Broadway is thrilled because he thinks that means that Elisa survived. And then Goliath stops. Because he realizes he isn't sure if Elisa is still alive. It slays me.

And meanwhile, Goliath is adapting fairly fast to the modern world. He clearly got his head around the idea that Xanatos was put away for possessing "stolen property", so he leaves the busted gun in Dracon's lap to make sure Dracon goes away too. He says as much. Not bad for a medieval gargoyle.

And this whole episode is a character-fest. Besides the above mentioned Family Maza, etc. We bring back Bruno, head of Xanatos' security. This was intentional. Establishing that the commandos from episode 2 were just Xanatos' security team being given an unusual assignment.

There's Dracon (pre-stripe) with Glasses and even Pal Joey. Rocky Caroll really brought Glasses to life. I like him. And Dracon, well, I just love his old-fashioned "noive". Calling Elisa "Honey" and "Sugar". Sending Glasses off to sell guns right in front of her. He's pretty fun in this episode.

Owen is incredibly cool. You can really see the Mr. Smithers influence in this one. Times ten. He fights, he negotiates. He manipulates. He's a phenomenal proxy for Xanatos. A true trickster with a low burning flame.

We also introduced Doctor Sato. I always planned on using him more. We just never found the story. Too bad. I liked him a lot.

And we cameo Matt. Originally, Chavez's driver was going to be Morgan. But we had already started work on "The Edge". We knew Matt was coming. So we decided to preview him here. Just a nice little touch for anyone paying attention.

MISCELLANEOUS STUFF

I'd love to know a little bit more about the movie "Showdown", a black and white western that was premiering in 1994. A score by Ennio Morricone (channeled through Carl Johnson -- a guy who doesn't get enough praise for the stunning work he did on the show). And the movie seemed to be a hit. Go figure.

And what about that movie theater. The balcony is closed. But they're storing bags of pre-popped popcorn. How old was that stuff?

Finally, Owen is very specific about the 37 missing weapons. Early on, I tried to keep count. To allow Broadway to eventually account for every one of those guns. But that was one detail that got away from me.


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Mara Cordova writes...

I noticed recently that there are several recurring names in the series. For instance, Peter Maza and Petros Xanatos have similar first names (both mean "rock", right?). Also, Thailog's chosen first name during "Sanctuary" was Alexander, the same name the Xanatos' named their baby. If you want to go a little on a limb, their's even a name connection between Alex, the baby, and Lexington, or Lex, the gargoyle. Is all this coincedental, planned, or a fluke?
And if it was planned, what were the reasons for it?

Greg responds...

The Peter/Petros thing was something that I planned that wound up being a fluke. Petros was my original name for Petros, but somehow in the script for "VOWS" the writer chose another name. (My memory on this is very vague.) At the recording session, someone had an objection to the new name. (It wasn't me.) But since there was a desire to switch, I piped up with Petros again.

The Alexanders was semi-planned. That is when it came time for Thailog to choose a name, I couldn't think of anything else he would choose besides Alexander. Same for Fox & David. Nothing else worked. (Nothing I could think of anyway.) Obviously, I was aware that both Thailog and the Xanatos' were choosing the same name. But I liked that. Made perfect sense to me, since Xanatos programmed Thailog.

As for the Lex/Alex thing, well that is more of a fluke. Not that I was unaware of it. But it just worked out that way.

Response recorded on February 25, 2000

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Sapphire writes...

I was wondering will Talon ever one day become human again

Greg responds...

Not in my lifetime.

Response recorded on February 20, 2000

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sdoh writes...

hello,

i`am a big fan of gargoyles and star trek. so my question is how many star trek actors played on gargoyles? can you tell me the actors names and the roles they played please? ty for you time

Greg responds...

I know this is in the archives... <sigh>

I won't pretend this is a complete list, but off the top of my head...

Classic Star Trek
Nichelle Nichols - Diane Maza

Next Generation
Jonathan Frakes - David Xanatos, Coyote (robot)
Marina Sirtis - Demona/Dominque Destine, Margot Yale
Brent Spiner - Puck
Michael Dorn - Coldstone, Taurus
LeVar Burton - Anansi

Deep Space Nine
Avery Brooks - Nokkar
Colm Meeney - Rory's father

Voyager
Kate Mulgrew - Anastasia/Titania

Plus there are all sorts of actors who had guest rolls on the various Trek series, for example both Morgan Shepard (Odin, King Kenneth, etc.) and Salli Richardson (Elisa/Delilah) have guested on Trek. I don't know and couldn't possibly list them all.

But this is a start, right?

Response recorded on February 17, 2000

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Blaise writes...

Hey there, Greg! Love your responses about Maggie's past (though by the time you get to this question, they'll have been answered a LOOONG time ago). I must say, I've always been interested in the Mutates, Talon and Maggie in particular. I have to say, I was quite shocked when you mentioned Maggie's parents. I mean, of course she had parents, that goes without saying. It's just the way you mentioned how they *MIGHT* have played a role in her life that got me. However, this does lead to a question of character--one that I'd been wondering about for a while:

Maggie went to New York pursuing a dream which got shattered. She was homeless and then turned into a Mutate. On top of that, the man whom she, Derek and the rest believed was trying to cure them, turned out to have little intention of doing so (if any). Now she lives outside of the main stream of humanity in the Labyrinth. Yet, she managed to meet and fall in love with Derek/Talon. My question is, would she consider Derek worth it all?

It's an odd question. Anyway take care, and I got a few more Q's on the way!

Greg responds...

If she's still thinking that way, she must be very unhappy.

And knowing Maggie, the odds are that occasionally, she does think of it in terms of trade-offs and or punishments or rewards.

But I like to think that she's matured some since then. I like to think that she's gained some self-acceptance and that she doesn't regard Derek/Talon as a trade-off but rather as a blessing in her new life. I'm sure that's how Derek feels about her.

Response recorded on February 09, 2000

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Dan writes...

I think I asked this earlier, so if you don't want to answer this, it's okay by me, but I'm still curious as to why David Xanatos did not decide to turn Elisa into a mutant panther instead of her brother in the "Metamorphosis" episode. Elisa as a mutant instead of her brother seems a better bargain to me, as Elisa as a human posed a ongoing danger to Xantos, and had more to offer in the way of skills, (Not to mention a certain revenge factor in turning Elisa into a mutant kitty on Xantos part). Even if the transformation was only on a short term basis, having a crack detective who was already your enemy transformed instead into a mutant powerless,ex-cop living in the sewers, who was dependent on your good will and had to follow your "requests" if she ever wanted a cure,would have been a great way for Xanatos to split Elisa from the gargoyles, get her off the force, if not actually working for him, and out of his hair at least for awhile.

Greg responds...

I feel like I've answered this already, but...

What good is Elisa as a mutate?

She'd only have become a more dangerous enemy. Maybe her effectiveness as a cop would be neutralized, but Xanatos had already managed that fairly effectiely, and his plan to turn her brother into a mutate further hampered her there. But meanwhile he would have a dangerous mutate, who knew he was a villain, knew he couldn't be trusted. It would hardly get her out of his hair, as you put it. She'd have nothing to lose, wouldn't trust him for a second to find a cure.

Derek, on the other hand, could be manipulated. In the long run, using him didn't accomplish all that Xanatos hoped, but for awhile it looked like he had what he set out to create, his own personal set of gargoyles. That could never have happenned with Elisa. Not even briefly. And I don't see how this would have split her off from the Gargoyles. She wouldn't have gone to live in a sewer. She'd have moved in with them. Arguably it could have made them even tighter.

As for revenge, we've seen over and over that Xanatos doesn't have a revengeful bone in his body. That kind of petty stuff doesn't interest him.

Response recorded on February 01, 2000

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Todd Jensen writes...

Just out of curiosity - have you ever worked out what religion the major (or minor, for that matter) human characters in "Gargoyles" are, if on a purely "for personal amusement" basis? (I doubt that you were seriously planning to bring it up directly in the series, given how tricky handling religion in television can be). We know from Diane's "We can pray, Peter" line in "Deadly Force" that the Mazas have some sort of religious belief, and obviously Max Loew, his Rabbi ancestor, and Janus in "Golem" are/were Jewish, but that's as far as I can guess.

Greg responds...

Matt Bluestone is Jewish.

Maria Chavez is Catholic.

Halcyon Renard is a Calvinist.

Petros Xanatos is Greek Orthodox.

I think that Diane Maza is a member of some Protestant Christian sect, but I'd have to do some research to figure out which one.

Peter Maza spent most of his adult life as a dedicated Agnostic. But since "Cloud Fathers" it would be interesting to see how that's changed.

I think Elisa probably has a background in Christianity from her mother, but probably styled her beliefs after her father. Still, I'm quite certain that all the stories her mother told about African myths and legends helped her maintain an open mind.

I think Derek Maza has a more Christian bent. Maggie Reed too.

Beth Maza's more likely to at least attempt to connect back with Carlos Maza's Native American beliefs.

David Xanatos believes... in himself.

Fox believes in David.

Have I left anyone out?

Response recorded on January 07, 2000

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Airwalker writes...

Does Elisa speak more than one language and if she does then what language would it be?

Greg responds...

I would guess that Elisa speaks Spanish and English. (Actually, I'm sure about that second one.)

Response recorded on December 30, 1999

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Airwalker writes...

How does Diane Maza feel about the fact that it was her advice that finally helped Derek decide to work for Xanatos?

Greg responds...

Probably pretty lousy. Wouldn't you think?

Though of course her advice was sound based on the info she had at the time.

Response recorded on December 30, 1999

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Airwalker writes...

How does Talon feel about raising a Gargoyle/Human hybrid who looks and sounds exactly like his big sister?

Greg responds...

Strange.

(What did you expect me to say?)

Response recorded on December 30, 1999

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Airwalker writes...

In THE CAGE, while I understand Talon was eager to look for any excuse to blame Goliath for his troubles, how could he take in Xanatos' story so easily? I mean, he heard the whole presentation in METAMORPHASIS, he knew Xanatos financed everything, how could he be so willing to ignore that?

Greg responds...

You're asking this from the man who had Demona say "What have I... What have THEY done to you?"

Never underestimate the power of denial, pal.

Response recorded on December 30, 1999

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OnyxStar writes...

Okay, this is turning into lots of little posts instead of one big one. But anyway, here are the next few:

1. Would Goliath and Elisa's "relationship" ever have become public knowledge? I mean, would someone have figured it out sooner or later and gone to the media with it?

2. If so, how will history remember Elisa Maza, "gargoyle-lover"?

3. Will others have followed in her example by, say, 2158? (not necessarily with a main character or anything, just in general)

4. What does 'protected minority' mean?

Thanks again!

Greg responds...

1. Maybe. Probably. But WAY down the line if at all.

2. Looking back from when?

3. Here and there, but not too often. We want to keep some things unique.

4. It will be a legal term both well-meaning and condescending, both necessary and a stumbling block. Otherwise, I'd say it's fairly self-explanatory.

Response recorded on December 29, 1999

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Douglas "macbeth" Lane writes...

You keep brining up that Elisa will deny her love for the big guy becuase she wants to have a normal life. But will her life ever be normal again? I mean just knowing about the gargoyles could potentially mess up somebodies life (Vinnie). Broadway will probably always try to come over for dinner, and she'll always have them on her mind. In a sence they have ruined her life so why should she deny the feelings that she odviously have and go with what she knows she wants?

Greg responds...

There's normal and there's normal.

There's having wonderful, strange friends and adventures.

And there's losing out on the chance to have a family on the order of the kind of family her parents had. The kind she always dreamed of having.

The two notions aren't mutually exclusive until you throw her love for Goliath into the equation.

Ultimately, she won't be able to deny her feelings for him. But that doesn't mean she hasn't tried.

Response recorded on December 16, 1999

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Airwalker writes...

How do Talon and Maggie feel about the fact that the Gargoyles are living back at the castle?

Greg responds...

Maggie may actually feel hopeful. Talan mistrustful at best, downright bitter at worst. I had hoped to do a story exploring this in the third season and find out the answers for myself.

Obviously, it didn't work out that way, so honestly, since I haven't fully examined the question in my own head (let alone on paper or film) the real answer is: "I don't know."

Response recorded on September 21, 1999

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Todd Jensen writes...

Something that I've wondered about "Metamorphosis" for some time, and finally remembered to ask here. Why did Xanatos choose Derek as one of his victims for the Mutates project? The reason why I'm wondering this is because unlike Maggie (whose folks were presumably all back in Ohio), Derek had family living in New York who would notice his disappearance and investigate - and indeed did. And in particular, Elisa was already definitely not a member of the David Xanatos Fan Club even before the events in "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Metamorphosis", and Xanatos was surely aware of this. It must have been pretty obvious that he'd be in real trouble with her if she ever found out that he'd turned her brother into a winged panther.

Obviously Xanatos must have felt there to be some practical benefit to turning Derek into a Mutate that was enough to outweigh the disadvantage of making even more of an enemy out of Elisa. What I'm curious about is: what was that practical benefit that was strong enough for Xanatos to take the risk?

Greg responds...

First off, Derek had qualities that Maggie, Fang and Claw did not.

Simply put if you are creating your own race of gargoyles, you might consider that you need your own equivalent of Goliath too lead them. Even, literally, to teach them how to fly.

Secondly, I don't think he really feared making an EVEN bigger enemy out of Elisa. That ship had sailed. Rather, I think he felt, particularly if he succeeded -- as he very nearly did -- in keeping Derek/Talon in his employ, that having Derek as a Mutate-bodyguard would be a very effective deterrent against anything Elisa might do. Using Derek was a huge potential bonanza. And the downside (to Xanatos at least) was minimal.

He never really suffered for it.

Great question, by the way.

Response recorded on September 05, 1999

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Dan writes...

Two quick questions:
1) While we saw what happened to Goliath and Fox when they wore the Eye of Odin, I was always curious as to what the Eye would have transformed Elisa and Demona into if they had happened to be the ones who wore the Eye. Have you ever had any thoughts on this?
2) Along these lines while we have all seen Demona's evil side of her nature countless times, Elisa was always the personification of law and justice in every episode. Could Elisa have her own dark side to her personality, as was alluded to in a Gargoyles episode and in a earlier question to Ask Greg? And if so, what form would this take do you think, as a vigilante, or a rogue cop, a human Demona, or even a female version of Tony Draco or Xanatos? What circumstances do you think could ever bring out Elisa's criminal side. For that matter, Elisa and Demona always seemed to have as much in common as not, as they are both strong, intelligent, powerful women. Do you think that they could ever put aside their differences to become allies or even friends?
Thanks!

Greg responds...

1. No. Not really.

2. This is a big question, with a lot of little questions inside it....

Hmmm...

I'm sure Elisa has a dark side. I think we all do.

All your suggestions for her dark side, however, seem to simplistic to me. It would have to come out of circumstances. She'd have to really be pushed over the edge. I'm not going to speculate on those circumstances here. That would be like writing a novel-length piece of fan-fiction that amounted to being the equivalent of a MARVEL WHAT IF? story. A lot of work to no purpose. Yes, Elisa has a dark side. Even a selfish side. We've seen that over and over, I believe. She isn't perfect. But do I think she'd ever permanently go over to the dark side. No. Not while I was in charge of her destiny. (Assuming I ever was.)

As for Elisa & Demona... who knows what might happen down the line. But Demona has a long road to travel before she's ready to fight on the side of the angels again. A very long road. I'm not sure Elisa's got the lifespan to stick it out.

Response recorded on September 05, 1999

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Llewwellyn Gaelfire writes...

Hi Greg,

I'd like to know more about Diane & Peter Maza. How'd they meet? When did they fall in love? Was their relationship met with resistance from their respective families (with the whole interracial aspect & all)?

Greg responds...

These are all good questions, but this isn't the forum for a novel-length response.

So briefly, they met in NYC after Peter had joined the NYPD. Diane was at Columbia. I have some notions for a flashback story that details their first meeting, etc. But I'm not going to go into that now. As to the when, well if you use "Cloud Fathers" as a marker, and count back based on Elisa's age (she being the oldest of the Maza siblings) that should give you a rough idea.

As to resistance, well Peter was already estranged from his family. So resistance from them was a non-issue. As to Diane's family, I'd assume that different individual members reacted in different ways. Like life.

Response recorded on August 24, 1999


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