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In CBV2, We see a clan of Gargoyles with Demona as her leader. There are two beasts.
I think my two favorite character designs are: the small green Gargoyle in Demona's Clan (He also appears briefly in CoS, squating near Demona and Macbeth as he names her) and in the trade; and Fu-Dog. I love Fu-Dog's color, and the basic style.
I currently use Future Tense Brooklyn as my Avatar on Station 8, but if I could, I would switch to Fu-Dog. Great job on the new designs, Greg, and to all the artists who worked on the comics!
1. When designing new characters, is it a back and forth between you and the artist on the look and coloring? Or is it all from your imagination, or previous concept designs?
2. I know Disney owns Gargoyles. Do they own any NEW characters you create like Fu-dog or Gnash? Who DOES own them, if not?
Thanks again, Greg! Thank you for all of your hard work over the last couple of years! (You don't know how much I appreciate it.)
1. I have ... a starting point, a basic description. But I like to see what the artist brings to it. I may then have a note or two, and we'll go back and forth, but it's a collaboration. It's why I've been reluctant to state much visually about characters like True here at ASK GREG. Don't want to tie the artist's hands.
2. Disney owns all things Gargoyles. Everything I (or any of the artists) do on the property is "work for hire".
Hello! I haven't posted anything to "Ask Greg" in quite some time, although I do enjoy reading responses.
I just got through reading the trades for the hundredth time (in only four days mind you.)
Sooooo.... How could you so this to us?! Shame on you!!!
The trades were the hight of awesomness, and worth ever second of wait time, but you ended both books on such cliff-hangers! Not really, but... Brooklyn et. al show up at the end of CBV2, the Redemption Squad doesn't complete their objective... leaving the door open for more... I mean, I want to see more! I turn the page and there isn't another page! It's really a big tease, to me at least.
I know it will be a long time before/if we get anything new, and I know how hard you worked just to get out what we have, so I will not complain but rather (how can I compliament you without gushing too much?) praise you magnificent job on all three trades and 12 comics.
I wanted you to know that I (and probably many, many, many others are ecstatic with the trades and the job done by all.
Thank you!
Leaving you wanting more is the goal of most artists.
TRADE PAPERBACK
==== SPOILERS!!!!!============SPOILERS!!!!!========= SPOILERS!!!!!========
FINALLY the book was published. I had concluded that the book was cancelled. I'm still waiting for Bad Guys. Very glad that I finally have Volume Two. It is still sinking in.
Anyway, I like the book a lot, especially the medieval flashbacks. And the art has been for the most part consistent and nicely done. I actually read through all twelve issues of Clan-Building, although it took me until 3 am. That wasn't so smart. Oh well. Thank you for writing the new Gargoyles stories and jumping through hoops to get somebody to publish them.
Nothing eloquent from me, just scattered thoughts from the single issues as I re-read them:
I find it interesting that Lexington tells Alex to call him by his name. "Doggie" could be responded to in any number of ways, such as "I'm a gargoyle." But Lex is insisting on his name. Quite a contrast to Awakening.
The non-chronological format of the Stone of Destiny arc (and to a lesser extent Bad Guys, Timedancer, and Reunion) is very confusing, though of course now I know why 7-9 are written this way. But I still find it confusing, especially with the different time-zones, and the +# stuff which I do not get. I did not understand the button-pressing, nor the stone-switching, until I read the ramble. I'm still not sure what happened on the bridge.
Gathellus and Scota's wardrobe. I never noticed it before, but now this irritates me. Gathelus (Gathelos?) is an ancient Greek, and Scota is an ancient Egyptian. He and his men should be wearing tunics, chitons, or kilts. She should have a nearly shaved head, and a tripartite wig (at least at first -- after wandering around for years, maybe she couldn't replace her wigs after a while).
Vinnie: "Can you believe it? I'm going to Japan!"
Random passenger: "So is everybody on this plane, genius!"
I can hear most of the TV characters' voices in my head, but I can't get a good voice in my head for most of the new ones.
I want Constance to have an alto English accent, but in my head she always sounds like Fleance. Eugh.
I imagine doing research on legends and myths about himself feels pretty weird for King Arthur. Good thing Avalon made him literate in English (and prevented him from speaking with an incomprehensibly thick accent, too.)
NINE: ROCK OF AGES
Nice cover! I like Griff.
I am confused what King Arthur is apologizing to the Westminster guards for.
"Define this." I laughed out loud. Great line to put in Coldstone's mouth! Was it a deliberate allusion to Warf's "Assimilate this." in the movie with the Borg? Either way, it's hilarious!
Ms. Three must be Blanchefleur (sp?). Interesting that she can get into Castle Carbonek at will, without a problem.
Creepy Borg-Picard-Guy is Creepy! This is Duval. And Peredur fab Ragnal is Percival. I'm quite surprised that they are not the same character, as I had expected. Now I wonder who Duval is. In the words of Fox: "...who is this guy?"
I like that you used Peredur's Welsh name, instead of the French one. Peredur makes more sense than Percival for an ancient Brython. And it's interesting to see it confirmed that he is the son of Ragnal, which presumably makes Gawain his father. Now I wonder if he grew up in obscurity in the woods (like in R.L. Greene) and if so, what could have caused his parents to break up. I would like to learn more about what happened in the Gargoyles universe. In fact, I would probably enjoy just reading a graphic novel about the Gargoyles version of the King Arthur legends, and how the gargoyles and Third Race participated in the stories. Same for the Greek myths.
Also, I'm relieved that Peredur is not a creepy, ill-tempered cyborg. It's sad enough that a guy like Peredur has stooped to supervising the Illuminati's horrible activities, not to mention their eventual allying with the Space-Spawn. I am surprised that he looks so young and fit.
Macbeth's breaking the Stone, and its reaction, is pretty funny. He actually did a fairly poor job gluing it, there's crud oozing out of the crack.
From there it just gets bizarre. This Stone, and a bunch of other sacred and/or magical stones around the world, are temporary or shared vessels for some vast, sapient force of destiny? It even talks to Xanatos and King Arthur simultaneously, from two different stones. Once you suggested that it might be either a magic talisman or a Child of Oberon, but now I feel like it must not, cannot, be either of these. I want to know what it is! And also, why the Holy Grail can talk!
The burden of Sisyphus... he's dead and Tartaros, so isn't his rock a piece of ghostly ectoplasm, or something?
Peredur has expected King Arthur to arrive in 200 years. No surprise that that was his original intended "destination" -- a time when Earth will be conquered and bereft of all its political leaders. But how did Peredur know this? And if this was planned in advanced by some force of destiny, instead of being a hypothetical "What if?", does that mean the Space-Spawn invasion is, within the Garg-universe, an unpreventable event that's fated to happen? That would imply the aliens lack free will, which I doubt.
Also, what is Blanchefleur wearing? Her pants are falling down!
Coldsteel really is a jerk.
Why do I get the feeling Xanatos didn't actually disable that tracking device?
More later...
==== SPOILERS!!!!!============SPOILERS!!!!!========= SPOILERS!!!!!========
"I am confused what King Arthur is apologizing to the Westminster guards for."
For knocking them out.
At long last, I have Clan-Building Volume Two in my hands! Like most fans, I have been dreaming of this for a full year. To be able to have it in hand and read it is delightful beyond words. So Iâll just start on my review then, shall I?
SPOILERS FOR CLAN-BUILDING VOLUME TWO
PLEASE DONâT READ IF YOU DONâT WANT SPOILERS
Chapter Nine: Rock of Ages
Just a few months before CB2 came out, I got the chance to spend three weeks in England and Ireland and a single day I Scotland. On that day, I got to tour Edinburgh Castle and view the Treasures of the Crown, including the Stone of Destiny. I got a little giddy seeing the Stone in Scotland because I could imagine the battle between gargoyles and robots being fought over it the night before its transportation. Sadly, I wasnât allowed to take a picture; I could only gawk for a moment before getting shooed down the line with the other tourists. So itâs a pleasure to have seen the Stone of Destiny before reading the conclusion of this arc. (On the same trip, I visited and Eskimo-kissed the Blarney Stone in Ireland; however, I had no idea until reading CB2 that one of the theories of the Blarney Stoneâs origin was from the Stone of Destiny. Quite exciting I visited the pieces from the same Stone twice :D)
We got to see the conclusion of the big air battle from the last issue. I liked the glance back to Tibet and seeing the two monks from âReunionâ. I think its fitting that Coldstone returned to them to show he had overcome his inner turmoil.
As always, it is a pleasure to see what new way the Coyote Robot will bite it next. And I love the free will chit-chat between Coldsteel and Coyote.
I will admit that I was one of the readers who was confused about who had the ârealâ Stone of Destiny by the end of it: Xanatos, the Illuminati, or Scotland? But, with the help of your Ramble and by rereading it a few times, I came to understand the fact that all the pieces of the Stone (whatever their name and location) are considered to be part of the Stone of Destiny. I am guessing that the Spirit of Destiny (I believe thatâs what itâs called on GargWiki) can jump between the fragments as it sees fit. Hence being unable to be possessed by any one mortal.
Favorite part of the whole arc: the greetings exchanged between the Stone of Destiny and the Holy Grail. I think itâs simple and just so totally perfect that these two artifacts of immense power say, âHey.â Its beautiful. I may cry.
And Shari ends things right where they began. That is some fine storytelling on her part. I like her as a storyteller.
All in all, I thought it was a fantastic conclusion to the Stone Arc. Iâll admit, the non-linear storytelling took some getting used to but I was hooked by the end of it. My only disappointment is that we donât know why the London Clan doesnât have any gargoyle beasts, which we are all curious to know because it seems like there is more of a story behind it than simply âThey all died outâ. Oh well, gotta save some mystery for when the Gargoyle Graphic Novels get picked up, right? Well done, well done!
Thanks.
Dear Greg,
I just got my copy of Volume 2 and read it. I am thoroughly impressed with your still-amazing storytelling. The Stone left me slightly confused, but I think I understand what the point was; the stone may take many shapes and names, but it will always be the stone. I like that the stone and the grail can talk to eachother, that was just funny (That and Brooklyn's PSA panel). And I absolutely loved, I repeat, LOVED finally seeing Katana and Gnash. The artists all get my deepest compliments and gratitude fro bringing form to some great characters. I really hope you can get the licenses approved and tell the rest of Brooklyn's story. This was amazing, and I hope I can talk more people into reading such great work.
Thanks. Appreciate the kind words.
I thought I'd give you a report on spreading the word.
Since King Arthur features in the first half of "Clan-Building: Volume Two", I gave a brief report on the book on an Arthurian mailing list I subscribe to, "Renditions of Camelot", focusing on the elements involving him. (It helped that we'd read Roger Lancelyn Green earlier this year, and a lot of the list members had enjoyed him. I told them about your fondness for Green, and even mentioned how you included a specific reference to him in the book:
* SPOILERS*
"Peredur fab Ragnal" - Green makes Percival the son of Gawain and Ragnell.
* SPOILERS END *
I also mentioned Arthur's consultation of Malory, and the Stone's "Sword in the Stone" role (though I left the revelation of Percival/Peredur's involvement a surprise, saying only that the Illuminati leadership turns out to have links to King Arthur).
I also briefly mentioned the medieval elements of #10 through #12, since I thought they might interest Arthurian buffs, even if Arthur wasn't involved here. And I made a similar report to a forum for the Arthurian role-playing game "King Arthur Pendragon".
I don't know how many people will buy the book based on my reviews, but spreading the word certainly doesn't hurt.
No, it HELPS!!!
Thank you, I appreciate those efforts tremendously.
After over a year's wait, it's over. I finally get to read the final third of the Stone of Destiny story.
* SPOILERS FOLLOW*
I'd done a lot of speculating on what stories about the Stone Shari would tell in this issue, and researched the Stone. Three of the four stories I'd expected made the issue: Edward I's seizing it in 1296, Robert the Bruce giving a piece of it to Cormac Maccarthy which became the Blarney Stone, and the 1950 theft from Westminster Abbey. Not a bad record.
I was also pleased to note that Macbeth (apparently) helped out his fellow Scots at Bannockburn. I'm glad that he remembered his old country, despite all the centuries.
So it seems we're getting a taste of future Coyote developments when Coldsteel remarks that the robot has potential.
We meet Blanchefleur, Duval, and Peredur at last - and I was surprised to discover that Peredur (whom I assume to be the same as Percival; I know that "Peredur" is the Welsh form of Percival's name) is a different person from Duval. You really know how to surprise people; now we'll never take any "canon-in-training" information for granted again! There seem to be quite a few people with missing eyes running about the Gargoyles Universe: Odin (though that's been fixed), Hudson, and Duval - not to mention - but that has to wait for the review of #12....
Xanatos seems a bit less surprised than Macbeth, Arthur, and Peredur over the Stone's remarks (or maybe he's better at hiding it).
I liked all the Stone's titles (including the references to Sisyphus, the Philosopher's Stone, the Rosetta Stone, etc.). You really gave it quite an aura there.
So the Grail's a plain wooden bowl (or at least, takes on the form of a plain wooden bowl) in the Gargoyles Universe, rather than the golden goblet? Though since I've seen other such interpretations of the Grail before, I'm not too astonished. (Having the Grail say something as informal as "Hey", on the other hand - that definitely surprised me.)
So King Arthur wasn't due to awaken for another two hundred years? I can guess now what "Britain's greatest hour of need" was in the Gargoyles Universe.
And I like the touch of Shari launching into the very story we've been reading at the very end.
I really enjoyed the Stone of Destiny story; it incorporated some of my favorite elements of "Gargoyles" (Macbeth, King Arthur, various legends, etc.). Thanks for making it one of the stories in "Clan-Building".
* SPOILERS END *
You're welcome. It was a very rewarding story for me.
Before I submit my reviews, I'm actually going to wait till Todd reads it out of respect...
The new gargoyles that appear in 10, 11, and 12. I would like to set up GargWiki entries for them. Do they have "script names" like Othello, Desdemona, and Iago did?
Yes, but I think you have them by now.
Dear Greg,
I just finished reading Clan Building Vol. 2 and I wanted to know, will there be more Gargoyle trade paperbacks? I know there is one for Bad Guys coming out, but I wanted to know about stories concerning the main Gargoyles. Also, speaking of Bad Guys, how many issues will be in the trade? Lastly, I thought the trade rushed Brooklyn's time traveling story, will there be a trade paperback to cover what wasn't told? Thanks so much for giving fans the unpublished issues.
Bad Guys Trade is out. Contains six issues worth of content, including covers.
Brooklyn's story wasn't all that rushed to my mind. IF you're asking about his ENTIRE time-travel journey, then please understand there was NEVER any intent to show all of that here. That story takes place over FORTY YEARS of continuity. I hope to tell more of it eventually, but let's be honest -- there's no way I'm ever going to cover all forty years in my lifetime.
And, yes, I hope there will someday be more Gargoyles trades. Dan Vado and SLG are working on that now.
So I've been lurking a bit, and I see folks are questioning the accessibility of the Gargoyles comics.
And I know I shouldn't do this, but I'm going to defend my own work here instead of just letting it stand on its own.
I totally reject the notion that the comics aren't accessible to new readers, unfamiliar with the GARGOYLES property. Now, granted Clan-Building, Volume II is pretty inaccessible IF you haven't read Clan-Building, Volume I. But in fairness to me, the Clan-Building arc is published in two volumes for commercial reasons, not creative ones. It's not two six-issue arcs; it's one twelve issue arc. So if you read Clan-Building in it's entirety OR if you read Bad Guys in it's entirety, I think both these arcs are extremely ACCESSIBLE.
And, yes, I've seen the reviews that claim that they're not. But I notice that those reviews are written by people who ARE passingly familiar with the cartoon and are making the ASSUMPTION that the books would be inaccessible to new readers. But I don't buy it. I've been doing this for a LONG time. And I know how to fill in my reader and/or viewer, introduce new concepts, etc.
Every issue in sequence introduces all the necessary information to a new reader that said reader would need. Does a reader benefit if they know all the backstory? Of course. But they don't have to know that backstory to enjoy the comic.
Let me take a specific example -- one that a reviewer specifically brought up. At the very end of issue #2 of Bad Guys, Sevarius appears. The reviewer (who knew exactly who Sevarius was) thought that I was blowing off new readers, because I gave NO backstory or introduction to Sevarius in that issue. But I'd argue that no introduction was necessary at that point. We've seen a mysterious figure descend into the Labyrinth, taser a guard, shed a disguise and confront Fang, claiming to know his real name and stating that he is Fang's "maker". That's ALL you need to know at that point as a new reader. It's perfectly okay if you DON'T know who this guy is. It's intriguing enough on that level. And in the very next issue (or chapter if you're reading the trade) Hunter gives all the backstory on Sevarius that you need to appreciate his role in issues/chapters #3 and #4. Yes, a hardcore fan is going to get extra juice when Sevarius pulls off his disguise because they'll recognize him. But even if Sevarius had been a brand new character, I wouldn't have handled his introduction any differently.
Look at Tasmanian Tiger. He is a new character. I hope he's at least a little bit intriguing. But is a new reader lost because they DON'T know that this is his first appearance? Readers, whether they are hardcore Garg fans or complete newbies, know as much about TT as they need to know -- and no more.
Yes, there are resources on the web -- BUT I don't count on those AT ALL, with one exception. And that exception is if people wonder why I'm ignoring Goliath Chronicles. And a new reader isn't even going to KNOW about Goliath Chronicles, so it's NOT an exception to him or her.
Otherwise, I use the tools I have within the book to explain what an audience needs to know. Someone familiar with the property may THINK the reader needs to know more, but I flat-out think they're wrong. My proof is anecdotal but it exists. I know people who've read the books and enjoyed them even though they never saw the show. Has it interested them in finding out more about the original series? Yes. And that's good and fine. But there's a difference between a new reader being intrigued and WANTING to learn more and a new reader being confused and NEEDING to know more to get what's going on.
You don't need to KNOW Brooklyn's entire history to know he's hurting because he can't get a date, to know he's pining for Angela and to know he's trying to get away from Angela and Broadway before chapter 10 of Clan-Building comes along -- and he's thrust into the past. Everything you NEED to know about him is present in issues 1-9. One benefits from knowing more, but that doesn't make it necessary to know more.
Of course, the greatest blockade to accessibility is the non-linear structure of chapters 7-9. But that's not property-based or familiarity-based, that's me using a non-traditional structure, which I might have done on an issue of, say, Captain Atom or Spider-Man or whatever. Hopefully, if a reader has read the first six chapters, they're intrigued enough to want to follow along despite the difficult structure.
Remember, issues 1 & 2 are designed to introduce you to the world of Gargoyles and any relevant information about said world. I got slammed by one reviewer for opening the comic book series with that adaptation of "The Journey", but I thought it was essential for new readers. One could argue fairly that each succeeding issue isn't as accessible as those first two, but complications and characters were added gradually through those first six issues. Anyone reading the book in order would not have been lost for a minute. If we hadn't been plagued by delays and late deliveries (which I had no control over and did not anticipate) it wouldn't have been the same kind of problem.
Any comic book or animated series that employs serialization and continuity is subject to these difficulties. And the middle chapter of any story (including a twelve-part story like Clan-Building or a six-part story like Redemption) can be tough to follow without having read the first few chapters. But just as I feel you can enjoy, say, "Leader of the Pack" without ever having seen any episodes from Season One of Gargoyles, I think Clan-Building can be enjoyed without having seen ANY of the Gargoyles TV series. Is the same true for "Avalon, Part Two" or "Avalon, Part Three"? No. But I think it IS true for "Avalon, Part One" and/or the three-part "Avalon" series when considered as a single unit.
My point is, I'm very familiar with the dilemma, and I know how to compensate. Or in any case, I'm VERY aware of the need to compensate. One can argue that I failed, I suppose. It does become subjective at some point. But nothing I did was done without very conscious thought on my part vis-a-vis the needs of a new reader. So any reviewer who claims that I didn't care or didn't try to make the book accessible is just -- well, wrong. And I think they are making assumptions based on THEIR knowledge of the richness of the property. They get all these resonances and call-backs, etc., and ASSUME a new reader would be lost without them. But you know what they say about the word "ASSUME". The resonances and call-backs are gravy. (And if you don't know they exist you won't know you're missing anything.) The meat, in my opinion, is all right there on the page.
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