Gerin writes...

I have two questions about statements that Goliath makes in "Awakening":

1) In Part I, Goliath states that Demona-to-be is his best warrior. Is his assessment correct, or is he trying to flatter her, or is his judgment clouded by the relationship?

2) In the final showdown in Part V, Goliath tells Demona: "There is good and evil in all of us, human and gargoyle alike. You should know that more than anyone."
That sounds as if Goliath had a specific incident in mind that should have taught Demona this, but I've never been able to figure out what Goliath is refering to. Is it a story that's never been told? Is it a story that popped up during the series and I just didn't catch it (and if yes, which one)? Or does he refer to nothing specific?

Purplegoldfish writes...

Now you can't get rid of me...
So, watching through my tapes of the later episodes, and I just watched "The Green," one of my favorite world tour eps.

I remember when I first saw the scene after Goliath's and Elisa's argument, when Goliath turns around to glare at Elisa, and thinking 'What was that all about?'
I never felt he did that because he was simply angry at her for her point of view. All the other arguments that we've seen the two get into usually ended with either him agreeing with her, or just shrugging her off (or screaming in her face heh)-typical male ;)

So the way Goliath just stops in his tracks and slowly and deliberately turns to stare at her for a good five or six seconds suggests more to it-as if a realization about her just hit him.

So here's my theory: I think it just kind of hits Goliath how human Elisa really is. There's not just physical differences, but cultural ones as well. He realizes they're going to clash on many things because of their respective instincts and upbringings. Maybe he's thinking of his growing feelings for her-perhaps there's some human prejudice mixed in with those feelings as well-as if he realizes their vast differences and wishes for a moment that she were born a gargoyle and not a human.
And the way Elisa looks back at him suggests that she probably knows what he's thinking and is most likely sharing those same thoughts.

So am I on the right track or totally off?

Kaylle writes...

Way back in October 2005, the day they released the cover art for the second DVD set, I watched a bunch of episodes instead of doing my homework and typed up my musings on them (mostly on Hunter's Moon and the Goliath/Elisa relationship) in my livejournal. Today I'm *still* trying to avoid my homework, and the queue is open again, so I thought I'd dig up those old musings and get your opinion on them (I may have posted something like this in the CR once as well; my apologies if you happened to catch it there). So here they are. I wrote:

"At the end of HM3, Elisa and Goliath finally get some "resolution" to their relationship. The infamous kiss it took us (and them) 65 episodes to get to. I hate to call it resolution at all because it doesn't really resolve anything; their relationship is still in a pretty uncertain place and kissing hardly changes that. But it's the first time they both admit what's going on between them and do something, however small, about it. And it provided some small measure of satisfaction for the fans, who were just beginning to realize that was all we were going to get. I remember being so hopeful, so excited, 13 years old, watching in awe as finally, *finally* the two of them "got together." I hadn't realized it was the season finale, although really it was pretty obvious (I didn't know cartoon shows *had* season finales). And I certainly hadn't realized it was, for all intents and purposes, the end." [Of course, I know now what I didn't know in October 2005-- it wasn't the end! We have a comic book!]

"But I digress. Anyway, I noticed two things today. First, in HM1, during the scene on the subway: after he dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to Goliath, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet. But I noticed today the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.

"Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half-convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it. But when you're 12-13 years old you miss some of the subtler points <g>.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.

"So then I went picking through episodes looking for Goliath/Elisa moments. (Aren't they cute in Eye of the Beholder, dancing in their Halloween 'costumes'? Even the trio notices. "They should have Halloween more often.") As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.

"So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She has shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).

"Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, even if Elisa doesn't necessarily know that) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.

"The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably "happier" than Elisa is; at least, she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head. So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)

"Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it? Of course, they've had a traumatic couple of days, and that could be a reason all by itself."

At that point I decided that I'd spent way too much time analyzing things and that I really ought to be doing work, so I stopped. But I'm still intrigued by it all. I guess if I had to distill it down into a few questions, they would be:

1) Is there a reason for Goliath's gesture (or lack thereof) on the train, or am I thinking too hard/paying too much attention to tiny details?

2) Does Elisa know that touching hair is the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss? (Maybe not in so many words, since I doubt the gargoyles think of it in terms of how their gestures of affection are equivalent to human gestures, but does she realize the sort of underlying meaning of a touch like that?) And if so, how does she know? Just from observation and intuition? Did someone tell her?

3) Why does Elisa finally speak up at the end of HM3? What changes her mind about keeping quiet?

Thanks for listening to me ramble on a bit, and for taking the time to answer our questions. It's only out of love that we analyze every aspect of things :)

Audra writes...

Hi Greg,
I just got comic #3 in the mail yesterday, and after reading it, I'm very excited! I'm so happy to have new Gargoyle stories written by you. For many years I have told my friends how I miss Gargoyles so so much... And when I say that, I meant new stories.

The art in comic #3 I think more like the TV show then the first two. (And I think it looks great!) I was quite surprised by what happened with Goliath and Elisa though. For some reason, I never thought Elisa would do that. Especially after Hunter's Moon. I don't know, I guess I am just a hopeless romantic, heh. But I guess I can't really relate to Elisa. I don't care so much about having kids, and having the normal family life... But it's important to me to be love with someone who loves me. I am in a long distance relationship, and have been for almost two years. I love my boyfriend so much and even though our relationship is hard because he lives on the other side of the world, I wouldn't change it for anything. (We see each other a few times a year, and he will be moving here after next year, but that's besides the point) I guess I just felt like Goliath and Elisa's love was strong enough to over come anything, but I guess not... Or at least, Elisa is not thinking of that at that moment... I really look forward to more comics, and I really want to know what happens with Goliath and Elisa... I'm so happy though about these comics being made!

Maria writes...

If Goliath and Elisa had chidren what would they name them?

Anonymous writes...

Who from his own generation was Goliath closest to pre-Massacre besides Demona? How close were Goliath and Coldstone/Othello?

Anonymous writes...

Was Demona truly the best candidate for the job of Goliath's second-in-command pre-Wyvern Massacre?

Anonymous writes...

Did Hudson have a second before Goliath? if so, who?

Makhasu writes...

In Sanctuary, Demona says to Goliath that "New York is your protectorate, Paris belongs to me!" Why was she so possessive towards Paris? Does it hold any special meaning for her?

Makhasu writes...

Who does Demona hate most: Goliath, Macbeth, or Elisa?

Makhasu writes...

Why did Goliath forgive the Captain of the Guards? Sure, he may not have intended for the Gargoyles to die, but he had no problems with the deaths of the soldiers of the castle, the refugees who were unlikely to be spared, etc... He even helped Hakon chase down Katherine when she tried to flee. This guy's just as creepy as any other villain we've seen.

JJ Gregarius writes...

Another thought about Bonkers...

At one point here, you said

By the way, the Miranda/ Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?)

Yes, that seems extremely strange, given some of the more salient aspects of the Elisa/Goliath relationship. Could you elaborate on what you meant? Are you just talking about pairing up a human female lead with a non-human male lead in crime-fighting stories?

Perhaps one day I'll have a bona-fide Gargoyles question to ask here.

Until then, JJ signing off.

P.S. Here's hoping the Gargoyles comics are thriving by the time you read this.

Battle Beast writes...

Greg;

We all know that Golaith isn't stupid. But he is a bit naive (Sp?). So, after he awoke in 1994, we know he frequented the library to read. Now, I know he read stories, but did he study? We saw him reading up on wearwolves (Eye of the beholder), but did he read up on the middle ages? Did he study American (and even world) history?

When Goliath an Co. navigated the globe, Goliath seemed to not know much about each place they visitied, and Elisa knew more (or so it seemed to me, at least).

My question is really this: How much did Goliath study up on the world? Did he read history books, and the like?

Was he like Brooklyn and the trio who wanted to learn as much as they could, or did he take the new world in slowly?

Thanks.

P.S. Love your episode mini rambles on the DVD.

angel writes...

after hunters moon part 3 is there any more reviling eips on goliath's and Elisa's relationship

Idril writes...

Hi i have a question about galith adn elisa. dose xanatose, puck, foxe, macneth, the mutates including derik, the rest of the gargoyles or any one ealse know about Galiths relationship between elisa?

Zel writes...

Maybe you've answered this before, but I can't find the answer in the archives. Why did both Goliath AND Demona abandon the Wyvern eggs? Wouldn't the leader of the clan consider that the living eggs are of high priority? At least try to find a foster clan? Leaving them with humans seems too risky no matter how much the individual humans are trusted. The greater masses of humans aren't nearly so trustworthy. Then there's Demona. She watched them pull the eggs out of Castle Wyvern on a waggon. She knew her own egg was in there, she was ok with humans raising her hatchling? I realize that Goliath and Demona were each in a bad head space durring these events, but we're talking about babies here! People don't treat that stuff lightly.

Battle Beast writes...

Future Tense

This was my favorite episode for a long time (It's now "The Price"/"Long Way Till Morning"), but I still LOVE it.

Goliath killing Lexington> One thing I noticed the first time I saw the episode was that Goliath didn't know that everything happening to him was fake. A ruse. An illusion. He THOUGHT it was real. So when he killed Lexington, he BELIEVED that he had REALLY killed him. He didn't know the difference. This means that he would stop at nothing to save the world (or what ever matters to him) even if it means killing his own "family."

So what if Lex or Brooklyn or Broadway went "bad" in reality? I mean REALLY bad? He would probaly stop them anyway he could, even if it meant killing them. He did it thinking it was reall in Puck's illusion, so what would stop him if was actually happening?

Brooklyn's costume> LOVED that look. (It's my Staion 8 avitar.) Great designs on costumes and the whole city in genral.

X-men> That whole "Days of future past" story arc really creeped me out when I first read it around the time this episode was new. I drew paralells to it immediately.

Great episode.

Anonymous writes...

was it planned for elisa and goliath to fall in love

Toni Age 12 writes...

What is the name of Goliaths biological father. Would he have been long dead before Dark Ages? Was he considered to be "Good" or "Bad". Same thing for his mother.

One last thing Greg, don't give up man. I dare you to pitch as soon as the summer of next year.

All of Spin-Offs are good except (no offense) Pendragon and New Olympians.

Duskrider Q writes...

Hey!

I just dug up a whole bunch of my old Gargoyle video tapes, since I bought the DVD. This show was fantabulous!

I love characters who grow, and I love Goliath. However, I noticed that in "Hunters' Moon" Goliath never lost his thirst or vengence. Even after what looked like Elisa's death, Goliath swore that the Hunters' moon would be the last moon the Hunters would ever see. He even identifies so much with Demona on this that he lets her leave!

In fact, it wasn't the first time we saw the extent to which vengence took Goliath ("The Awakening"), and the Weird Sisters reminded him not to become what he fought against ("City of Stone"). If you had stayed on past the first episode of the third season, where would you have gone with this vengence streak? I would have thought Elisa's almost death would have lead Goliath to reconsider his motivations.

French Kitty writes...

Hi Greg, how are you?

I know that you had a plan for Goliath and Elisa to go on a Halloween double-date. Would this be Elisa's decision? How long after Hunter's Moon III would this have taken place? How long after that would they have decided that that was pointless and become a couple? If the show comes back will this episode be aired?

Thanx, bye! >^-^<

kadee writes...

why did u decide to put elisa maza and golith together?

J writes...

In "Future Tense" when Broadway is "killed" Goliath says "Goodbye, my friend". This surprised me. Wouldn't Goliath think of Broadway more as his son? The word "friend" just seemed awkward to me in context of the relationship between Goliath/Broadway. What are your thoughts?

holly writes...

do elisa and goliath ever become a couple?

virginia writes...

how tall is goliath