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Battle Beast writes...
Greg;
We all know that Golaith isn't stupid. But he is a bit naive (Sp?). So, after he awoke in 1994, we know he frequented the library to read. Now, I know he read stories, but did he study? We saw him reading up on wearwolves (Eye of the beholder), but did he read up on the middle ages? Did he study American (and even world) history?
When Goliath an Co. navigated the globe, Goliath seemed to not know much about each place they visitied, and Elisa knew more (or so it seemed to me, at least).
My question is really this: How much did Goliath study up on the world? Did he read history books, and the like?
Was he like Brooklyn and the trio who wanted to learn as much as they could, or did he take the new world in slowly?
Thanks.
P.S. Love your episode mini rambles on the DVD.
Greg responds...
I'd say he read a lot -- when he had time. But there wasn't always a lot of time and there is SO MUCH TO KNOW!
angel writes...
after hunters moon part 3 is there any more reviling eips on goliath's and Elisa's relationship
Greg responds...
Read the comic, and you'll see the answer is yep!
Idril writes...
Hi i have a question about galith adn elisa. dose xanatose, puck, foxe, macneth, the mutates including derik, the rest of the gargoyles or any one ealse know about Galiths relationship between elisa?
Greg responds...
What's to know? That they like each other? It's not exactly a secret. As to the extent of their feelings... which they've hardly (or at any rate barely) admitted to each other out loud, I think it all depends on how ... intuitive each of the people you listed are and/or how much opportunity they've had to observe Goliath and Elisa together.
I would think that Xanatos, Fox and Puck get it.
The clan, especially Angela and Hudson and Broadway and Bronx and Brooklyn and Lex, get it. (I started out writing Angela only, but as I considered each character, I couldn't find one who didn't get it.)
Macbeth... I don't know. It's not that I don't think he's intuitive, but he just hasn't spent enough quality time with the couple to have the chance to observe. And I think that maybe in "Sanctuary", he might have been distracted and/or a tad self-absorbed.
Mutates... same thing. How much have they seen of Goliath & Elisa together? Derek is, I think, the densest of the four mutates. But I'm not sure any of them have had the observation time to figure it out.
Zel writes...
Maybe you've answered this before, but I can't find the answer in the archives. Why did both Goliath AND Demona abandon the Wyvern eggs? Wouldn't the leader of the clan consider that the living eggs are of high priority? At least try to find a foster clan? Leaving them with humans seems too risky no matter how much the individual humans are trusted. The greater masses of humans aren't nearly so trustworthy. Then there's Demona. She watched them pull the eggs out of Castle Wyvern on a waggon. She knew her own egg was in there, she was ok with humans raising her hatchling? I realize that Goliath and Demona were each in a bad head space durring these events, but we're talking about babies here! People don't treat that stuff lightly.
Greg responds...
"Bad head space." That's a good phrase, and I don't have a better explanation, frankly. If the psychology didn't work for you, then ... well... mea culpa.
But Goliath was suicidal. It is a sad fact that occasionally parents kill themselves, leaving children in horrible situations. That's what happened here.
Demona is too self-preservationist to kill herself, but she's also too self-preservationist to attempt to raise 36 kids on her own while loaded with enough guilt to choke a mastodon.
Battle Beast writes...
Future Tense
This was my favorite episode for a long time (It's now "The Price"/"Long Way Till Morning"), but I still LOVE it.
Goliath killing Lexington> One thing I noticed the first time I saw the episode was that Goliath didn't know that everything happening to him was fake. A ruse. An illusion. He THOUGHT it was real. So when he killed Lexington, he BELIEVED that he had REALLY killed him. He didn't know the difference. This means that he would stop at nothing to save the world (or what ever matters to him) even if it means killing his own "family."
So what if Lex or Brooklyn or Broadway went "bad" in reality? I mean REALLY bad? He would probaly stop them anyway he could, even if it meant killing them. He did it thinking it was reall in Puck's illusion, so what would stop him if was actually happening?
Brooklyn's costume> LOVED that look. (It's my Staion 8 avitar.) Great designs on costumes and the whole city in genral.
X-men> That whole "Days of future past" story arc really creeped me out when I first read it around the time this episode was new. I drew paralells to it immediately.
Great episode.
Greg responds...
I think one has to make the distinction between a hot-blooded and cold-blooded act -- and I think context also would always make a difference. Goliath had just been beaten down, exposed to one trauma after another. Last nerve, you know? Also, is it 100% clear that Goliath was trying to kill Lex or might he just have been trying to take him down -- but got carried away?
But is Goliath capable of tremendous sacrifice for the greater good? I think so.
And is Goliath capable of sacrificing the greater good for the sake of his clan? I think so.
Anonymous writes...
was it planned for elisa and goliath to fall in love
Greg responds...
Yep.
Toni Age 12 writes...
What is the name of Goliaths biological father. Would he have been long dead before Dark Ages? Was he considered to be "Good" or "Bad". Same thing for his mother.
One last thing Greg, don't give up man. I dare you to pitch as soon as the summer of next year.
All of Spin-Offs are good except (no offense) Pendragon and New Olympians.
Greg responds...
Hey Toni,
I haven't given up on anything in particular, but... pitch what?
As for the spin-offs, well, you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't agree with your assesment of either Pendragon or New Olympians.
And as to your question about Goliath's parentage, Goliath was raised by his entire clan. Most gargoyles in that era and in that location didn't have names and most individuals can't be reduced to "'Good' or 'Bad'".
Duskrider Q writes...
Hey!
I just dug up a whole bunch of my old Gargoyle video tapes, since I bought the DVD. This show was fantabulous!
I love characters who grow, and I love Goliath. However, I noticed that in "Hunters' Moon" Goliath never lost his thirst or vengence. Even after what looked like Elisa's death, Goliath swore that the Hunters' moon would be the last moon the Hunters would ever see. He even identifies so much with Demona on this that he lets her leave!
In fact, it wasn't the first time we saw the extent to which vengence took Goliath ("The Awakening"), and the Weird Sisters reminded him not to become what he fought against ("City of Stone"). If you had stayed on past the first episode of the third season, where would you have gone with this vengence streak? I would have thought Elisa's almost death would have lead Goliath to reconsider his motivations.
Greg responds...
Elisa's "return from the dead" did. Hopefully, that's a lesson he's learned now. But you never know.
French Kitty writes...
Hi Greg, how are you?
I know that you had a plan for Goliath and Elisa to go on a Halloween double-date. Would this be Elisa's decision? How long after Hunter's Moon III would this have taken place? How long after that would they have decided that that was pointless and become a couple? If the show comes back will this episode be aired?
Thanx, bye! >^-^<
Greg responds...
I won't answer this now, except to say BUY THE COMIC BOOK -- all will be revealed!
kadee writes...
why did u decide to put elisa maza and golith together?
Greg responds...
I might suggest that THEY decided. But beyond that, it was always the plan, from the moment that Goliath entered the development. We never considered any other alternative.
J writes...
In "Future Tense" when Broadway is "killed" Goliath says "Goodbye, my friend". This surprised me. Wouldn't Goliath think of Broadway more as his son? The word "friend" just seemed awkward to me in context of the relationship between Goliath/Broadway. What are your thoughts?
Greg responds...
Broadway is too old for Goliath to regard him as a Rookery-Son. And too young for Goliath to regard him as a Rookery-Brother. Now, without a doubt, Goliath regards Broadway as family, as part of his clan, as a cousin, as someone so close to being a "little brother" that it might not be unexpected for him (if he were human) to use the term.
But Gargoyles aren't humans. They don't use the term "little brother" to describe that relationship. Or any relationship, really.
And the word "friend" to a gargoyle carries real weight. It's not insignificant or casual.
holly writes...
do elisa and goliath ever become a couple?
Greg responds...
You mean they're not now?
virginia writes...
how tall is goliath
Greg responds...
Counting or not counting his wings?
(That should delay this question for another couple years at least.)
veronica writes...
what's with goliath/elisa?
aren't you going to hook them up?
Greg responds...
SPOILERS:
Eventually.
Todd Jensen writes...
In "Shadows of the Past", it's pretty clear that one of the weapons that Hakon and the Captain were using against Goliath was some feeling of guilt over the Wyvern Massacre.
In your opinion, what sort of guilt did Goliath have about the massacre of his clan? Was it a "survivor's guilt" attitude, or was it related to the fact that the bulk of the clan had been at the castle because he'd decided to only take Hudson along with him to pursue the Vikings? Or a mixture of the two?
Greg responds...
Mixture.
Miranda writes...
who is Goliths dad.
Greg responds...
Goliath had many rookery fathers, including Hudson. We don't know (or much care) who is biological father was.
matt writes...
Hi Greg.
You've mentioned before that in 994 AD no one even thought that the Wyven Clan was the last of its kind and that it was probably assumed that there were other Clans in Scotland and other locales. So my question is, why did Goliath not take the eggs and try to find one of these Clans? I know he was emotionally torn apart by losing his Clan, first by the Massacre and then by the Magus' Sleep Spell, but there was still some Clan left... the Eggs. If he believed there were other clans around why did he choose to put his children in the care of someone he just began to trust. Later in the series he speaks about how trust has to be earned, and yet he puts huge trust in several people who have insulted, betrayed, and cursed his Clan in just the last several days. I don't mean to come across like i'm trying to trick you or corner you with some inaccuracy, i'm just genuinely curious about what you think of Goliath's motivations and actions in this scene. And, of course, the same question could be asked of Demona. She actually did find another Clan to join, and could've taken the eggs with her, but she didn't. I'd love to hear what you think about all this.
Greg responds...
Demona's easier to explain, I think. She didn't find another clan to join... years later, she gathered a handful of scattered, clanless gargoyles into a makeshift clan. At the time, however, I think she was too racked with guilt. She couldn't face the inevitable questions. Couldn't "face" the eggs themselves. She sent herself into exile -- a traditional gargoyle punishment in those days.
And maybe the same basic thing was going on with Goliath. He couldn't "face" anything. Not the eggs or his responsibility to them. This act -- or lack of action -- on his part ironically resulted in the eggs being saved on Avalon. But at the time, one has to regard it as an act of tremendous irresponsibility. I forgive Goliath because I believe he was suicidally depressed. I'm sure -- as "Shadows of the Past" attempted to illustrate -- he was suffering from a massive case of survivor's guilt and the feeling that as Leader of the clan, he had failed miserably... at the cost of each and every life... including Hudson, Bronx and the Trio. One might argue that simply asking the Princess to watch over the eggs required Herculean effort on his part. All he wanted was oblivion, but he had just enough strength of mind left to obtain the Princess' vow -- to assign the responsibility that should have been his. I don't think he thought about how she would protect them. I don't think he thought, "Hey, I should tell her where the nearest clan is for a convenient drop-off." I think he just barely managed to get her to relieve that last burden, so that he could slip into what he had to believe was permanent slumber... again, an exile... from the living world. (Too much sleep being a definite symptom of depression.) Also since he believed he failed miserably with the clan, he may also have truly believed that he wasn't capable of handling the responsibility for the eggs -- that even the Princess was better qualified in light of his failure.
Anonymous writes...
can goliath lift a car
Greg responds...
What kind of car?
Jessica writes...
Hello Greg!
First of all, I want to thank you for a show that had me hooked from the very first preview. I loved it when it first aired in the mid-nineties, and I think I appreciate it even more now. So....thank you!
I was wondering when you think the guys came to think of Elisa as a part of their clan. I know that it was at least by the time of "The Cage". I realize that that their trust and affection grew along and along, so it probably wasn't, say, the "seventh" time they saved each other's necks that it was official, but do you think that it was something that had to be discussed? Was there an announcment or did it even need to be said?
Greg responds...
I think that by "Her Brother's Keeper" Goliath was already viewing Elisa as part of the clan. Ironically, her role in moving them to the clock tower, a move he strenuously objected to, helped cement her position. His willingness to have Elisa reveal the truth about them to her brother demonstrates that he viewed her -- and thus by extension Derek -- as family.
But I think the final turning point was "The Mirror" and seeing her as a Gargoyle.
But as you noted, the whole thing was a progression. So I'd be open to other interpretations. It's a very good question and I'd be interested in hearing other points of view on the subject.
Ineyboy writes...
Greg, I absolutely love Gargoyles, almost more than any other cartoon, ever (I'm sure that's been said before, but every fan should say it). I have some ?s for you, but I would like to apologize first if they have been asked previously, as I have not got a chance to read all the FAQ's. I would appreciate it if you could email me (inianj02@yahoo.com) your response, when you get to it. If you prefer to only post them, then I understand. You could say that my ?s may not be directly related, but they are both concerning Goliath's confusion about something.
1) In the beginning of "City of Stone: Part One", who was the Weird Sister referring to when she told Goliath that when he "...forgets that every life is precious..." he is just like "her"? I believe Goliath points to the girl he calls a "terrorist", but the Weird Sister was referring to someone else...Who? (Right after Goliath says this, the 3 sisters disappear; not that you don't know that, but for quick reference)
2) I won't torture you with everyone else's ? in "Ill met by moonlight," but I would like to know something else: At the end of the episode, what favor was Titania referring to when she thanks Goliath for a "favor rendered"?
Greg responds...
1. They were referring to Demona, who is the next person we see.
2. For saving her (and everyone) in "Walkabout".
Lis M writes...
"Hello, Greg! I love the show Gargoyles and have been a fan for many years. I've read the Ask Greg from top to bottom and I haven't found the answer to this question: What exactly was Goliath feeling when he saw Elisa and Jason kissing? In my opinion, the episode made it look like Goliath seems to forget about it too easily even though he doesn't always let his feelings out in the open..." What do you think, Greg? And thank you so much!"
Greg responds...
He was DESTROYED!!
I honestly don't know how you can look at that episode and not realize that. Soon after, he runs into Brooklyn & Lex, and he's in a major bad mood. A Demona-esque bad mood. It extends right through to the scene at the dam in the next episode. Look again. I think you'll agree.
Anonymous writes...
hey greg heres a question. when did goliath found out that he had feelings for elisa?
Greg responds...
I don't think he realized it until "The Mirror". But I think his feelings for her existed as far back as "Awakening".
Anonymous writes...
Why don't we see Goliath laugh or smile more often? Is he too serious or too sad or is there another reason?
Greg responds...
Well, he's not a laugh a minute kind of guy. And I think the fact that he doesn't laugh, tell jokes or even smile all that often makes the times when he does stand out. Have more value.
But also, in general, I would like to loosen G up a bit. Hopefully, someday, I'll get the chance.
Gemini_Bloodian writes...
Sadly,Even though Ive watched almost every episode I keep forgeting.Who was Goliath's second in command after Demonia?I mean I eventually find it oout hten I forget it.
Greg responds...
Goliath had no official second-in-command between the massacre and the episode "Upgrade". (One could argue that Hudson acted as his second in an unofficial capacity.) In Upgrade, Goliath chose Brooklyn as his second.
VAMBER writes...
Does Avery Brooks do the voice for Goliath? If not, then who?
Greg responds...
Keith David is the voice of Goliath. (Keith can currently be seen as the Imam in "Chronicles of Riddick".)
Avery Brooks did the voice of Nokkar the alien for us.
Forliya writes...
hey,Um, I'm wondering if you could tell me how many gargoyal
cronicals are thear? because I'm embarresed to say that I'm in love with goliath. I know its stupid but I cant help it.Oh by the way can you tell me who dose the voice of goliath ? because it goes by so fast on the credits I cant read it on the screan!
Greg responds...
We made 65 episodes of "Gargoyles" over two seasons.
They made a third season, 13 episodes, called "Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles". I wrote the first of those 13, but had no real involvement beyond that script.
And the voice of Goliath is the amazing Keith David.
Babs writes...
To answer Anons question, I know some (plz do corrected me if I'm wrong so I can correct myself)
1)Brooklyn - is 19 years young, 6ft tall and wingspan 6 ft, day he weighs about 210 lbs. , night alot more
2)Broadway - 19 years of age, 6 ft tall, wingspan about 16ft, day time weighing in at a even 2 tons, night I don't even wanna think about it.
3)Lex - 19 years old
(I'm a tad bt out of thier age range)
4)Golaith - I think 29 years old
(Within better age range for me, he's just a few older than I)
5)Hudson - Hatced in 878 A.D., you do the math and get back to me on that one.
6)Bronx - not that old at all
7)Demona - If you know that would also help me, because I have no clue and if I'm wrong I don't want her hunting me down.
Gargoyles Forever !
Greg responds...
Anonymous asked for the ages at the time they were cursed. So my numbers are more accurate.
And I don't stand by those weights at all. Frankly, I'm not even sure about the wingspans.
As for Demona, she hatched at the same time as Goliath.
Anonymous writes...
I know that the Clan was frozen in stone for 1,000 years, and I am also aware that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans, but approximately how old was each of the Gargoyles prior to being cursed.
Greg responds...
I've answered this before, but...
The first number is the character's actual calendar age. (The second is their approximate human biological equivalent.)
Hudson 116 (58)
Goliath 56 (28)
Trio 36 (18)
Bronx 16 (8)
Babs writes...
Me again :), lemme get one more question on before i head off to work.
1)Does Goliath still feel anything for Demona , or is he just filled with hate for her ?
danke
I liked that female clone , I think if she lived her and Brooklyn would have made a great pair.
Gargoyles Forever !
Greg responds...
1. Goliath's feelings (and he has many) for Demona are decidedly mixed.
I have other plans for both Brooklyn & Delilah.
Brad676 writes...
Will Goliath and Elsa get further into there relashiship
Greg responds...
Yup.
Katalina Darkheart writes...
Hi Greg,
So I guess i'm in a way sort of a...um.."new" fan of gargoyles...i used to watch it all the time when i was younger but i guess i just had other things to do...but i'm watching it again now...way kul show dude...but i wantedto ask you...since i'm new and this is bugging the bejeepers out of me....does Elise Maza and Goliath ever put aside their differences and like wed r something?...i know i shuld continue watching the series....and i will try to watch it as much as i can...but disney likes to rerun them and they're not always in order...and now that i'm older unlike when i was a kid i have more responsibilities such as work and school that keep me from being able to watch it so i'd be extremely grateful if u'd fill me in on that subject...oh and heheh..Happy Birthday...may-b if i send it now it might reach u sometime around there...or if not merry christmas ^.^...heheh...see ya..
Greg responds...
Disney is actually pretty good about airing the episodes in order. Of course, we didn't get to tell all the stories we wanted to. I only worked on 66 episodes and they did 12 more after I left and that's it.
So the short answer is, no, Goliath and Elisa do not get married by the end of the 66 or 78 episodes.
What happens in the future is another story.
julio writes...
GREG THE SLAVE SPELL THAT DEMONA DID ON GOLIATH IT WONT WORK ANY MORE RIGHT BECAUSE DEMONA SAID IT WAS NOT FOREVER SO IT MUST BE OVER RIGHT
Greg responds...
Demona said it was not forever? When?
As far as I know, it doesn't work because, (a) Elisa commanded Goliath to not let it work and (b) the page that was used to control Goliath was destroyed so that no one could countermand Elisa's command. Technically, I believe the spell is still in force.
Cleo writes...
Who is Demona's and Goliath's parents?
Greg responds...
Don't know yet.
kate oxford writes...
I was wondering does Golith have a grandson ? Did I hear right or am I just making it up?
Greg responds...
He will someday.
April Currier aka Golden Claw writes...
Gooden! I've passed this place before many times and thought this time i should stop and say a few words.First off I love Gargoyles! Elisa and Goliath even got # 1 spot for fave tv couple.Beating out Mulder and Scully!
the show is sadly missed,but i will always have my tapes! Thanks!
now for the question:
1. What color is Goliath's hair? is it black or brown???? i think it looks better black,but sometimes it appears brown????
Greg responds...
I think it's largely black. (At least it is in my mind.) But it has a brown tint to it.
Jen writes...
Greg
i was wondering if golitah & elisa ever become a couple
Greg responds...
Have you seen "Hunter's Moon, Part III"?
or said another way...
Define "couple".
Mooncat writes...
Hello Greg,
The subject came up in the Adult comment room on the Gargoyles Fan Website, on wether Goliath and Elisa would ever be able to become mates. Physically.
So the main question is, can they become mates, in a physical sense, without physically harming Elisa?
How well endowed is Goliath (beneath the loin cloth)?
How well endowed are Brooklyn, Broadway, and Lex? Yes, inquiring minds want to know *^_^*. If not exact sizes, some general indication would be appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to consider the question.
Mooncat >^,,^<
and the peeps in
the Adult Gargoyles Comment Room
Greg responds...
I think of Goliath (and all the gargoyles) as being proportional. So that would make him fairly well-endowed by human standards. I have no doubt that Elisa and Goliath could become intimate, but I do have some doubts as to whether they could engage in intercourse without harming Elisa physically. But there are of course, many ways to become intimate short of intercourse.
Gus Gustafson writes...
Does Goliath have any biological brothers or sister? If so then how many and what sex?
Greg responds...
Odds are he had one or two (but no more than that). The odds of them still being alive are fairly slim of course. But I try not to think too much like a human and emphasize biological siblings over rookery siblings.
Kim writes...
Settle a bet, will goliath and elisa ever hook up?
Greg responds...
Define "hook up".
Gipdac writes...
1a) Did Goliath know Jon Canmore and John Castaway were the same person? b) Did Elisa?
Greg responds...
1a. Not at the time of "The Journey".
1b. Ditto.
FanForLife writes...
I was wondering, when exactly did Goliath actually admit to himself consciously that he was in love with Elisa? Actually said to himself, "I love her?" Was it at a specific moment in the series, and if so what scene/episode? Thanks!
Greg responds...
That's a darn good question. I'm sure he hadn't figured it out by "Sentinel". It might, in fact, have been in "Hunter's Moon, Part III" after she returned from the dead. Maybe right after the Praying Gargoyle was smashed. Or maybe after he returned to the castle. It wouldn't surprise me if it was as late as that.
I'd be eager to hear what all of you think on this question.
In any case, he certainly knew by "The Journey".
Vanity writes...
Greg:
This question or line of thoughts may be dismissed by many as hindsight or 'if party "A" knew that party "B" would have acted as such party "A" would have/not done what ever they had done, or something else entirely.
That being said I am not interested in mere allocations of ideas or energy as it is parted to its situation(s). But rather the logical processes which make it happen. (not why did "X" do this instead of this, but how did "X" come to believe that what he/she did was what he/she wanted done in order to further the cause of or to accomplish the objectives of his/her agenda. Even when other noticeable paths of achieving that endeavor where evident and obvious.
--Case point--
-Demona--most irrational
-episode-Temptation--enlightening
Demona not by magic or trickery was able to persuade Brooklyn to believe that humans were bad for gargoyles. How? Through persuasive speech mixed with vived illustration, preying on the emmotion, and excellent visual situations highlighting her position.(the murder, troubled household).
1) she has Brooklyn to the point where he will steal the magic book and lie to Goliath.
Knowing that she has plenty of time in the world to accomplish her goal of a human-free world, why did she rashly cast a 'wierd-spell' on Goliath?
When I first saw this episode age 12 or 13 I had myself thought I knew what she was doing, I was wrong. I easily recognized then her potential ability to persuade the other impressionable minds of the clan with simmilar illustration and glib of tongue. (Lexington's encounter with the Pack) With the help of Brooklyn, "subverting" the clans' mind with tongue not sword.
Still, had she not wanted to wast the time and energy in that long term process she still could have stalled on her plan to 'open Goliath's eyes' why not study the book find a more meaningful spell. Since I do not know exactly all the power held in its pages I cannot give an example, however; I am sure there would be one in there somewhere.
Or even use this oppurtunity to find other usefull information, Brooklyn as a 'double-agent'.
When in the situation present without the liberty of hindsight, I know that what we do is what we do, but again I stress that I am not interested in her decision, cast a 'wierd-zombie' spell fine. Why? "Open Goliath's eyes". So we are here again at the point where all the preperations for planning will eithere pay off big time or backfire. In planning though she must have decided that it would be easier, faster, better to cast a wierd spell than to expend her resources into other side projects ultimately perhaps harvesting a greater chance of sucess through diplomatic channels and patient subversion. This is where I need your help. I reason that she must have chose to cast the wierd spell on Goliath so to accomplish her objective more quickly. Why does she reason that speed is the best way to accomplish her plans?
If it was not just speedily accomplishing her goals that motivated her irrational behavior then what was it?
Greg responds...
Well, I think most would agree that Demona is her own worst enemy. She is extremely intelligent, but also extremely passionate, and she often, often lets her passions rule her brain -- though she rarely, if ever, admits to that.
She may have justified/rationalized that speed was the key. She may have justified/rationalized that Goliath posed such a huge threat both physically and as a "corrupting influence" on the clan that he needed to be dealt with immediately.
But I don't think it was any of that.
I think she was mad at him.
I think she felt betrayed.
I think she wanted vengeance.
I think she wanted to feel superior to him.
I think she wanted to justify all the damnéd choices she had made over a thousand years.
I think she took personal satisfaction out of turning him into a plaything.
I think she made a big mistake.
I think she threw away an incredible opportunity, as you outlined above.
Just my opinion, though.
Stephaneus writes...
Hi Greg Happy New Year all
Vanity(don't you mean Gruouch??)
Know this is about Awakenings (which I think is the best episode in the whole series). Goliath caught Hakon's sword. What is the deal. Hudson's little dagger in Long way to morning cut a statue in half. But Hakons double edged long sword could only scratch Goliath. He's tough and rugged but come on now. And I really loved Hakon's reaction "Fight men they're not invincible" If that isn't invincible what the hell is? Why should Goliath even dodge weapons they just bounce off anyway?
Why did you let that happen? Catching a sword without it even hurting him seriously at all!!
Super Stephaneus
Greg responds...
I don't know what you're referring to vis-a-vis Vanity/Gruoch...?
As to your Awakening question, Hakon's sword did hurt Goliath. Cut down to the bone. He just toughed it out. Cuz he's Goliath. That's who he is. You expected him to cry?
And Hakon's sword could certainly cut THROUGH bone. But he would have needed to put more power behind the swing to do that. Given his position on that tower, Hakon did the best he could, but it wasn't good enough, and Goliath's been in enough fights to know what he can and cannot take. He stopped the blow with his hand before it could gain enough momentum to do serious damage.
What Hakon saw, before he spoke his line, was the Goliath's blood. We made a point of that, and even convinced our S&P exec to let us show the blood. Which is very rare for cartoons. If Goliath had been invincible, there would have been no blood. And the sword would have bounced off his hide. Which it didn't. Weapons don't bounce off our gargs.
Hudson doesn't have a dagger, by the way, but a sword. And a lot of Gargoyle muscle behind his swing.
And you, Super, have a lot of attitude, bordering on disrespect. Just so you know, it's really off-putting.
Vanity writes...
In Hunter's Moon on the Hunter's airship when Goliath and Demona reaching for the laser rifle was he going to shoot her.
Greg responds...
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but I can't recall the scene at the moment. Odds are he was simply trying to keep the weapon away from her.
Artemis writes...
This isn't really a question, but rather a corrective comment.
Obviously Goliath wouldn't know, but I don't know about you, but Thailog is NOT Goliath's son. They are brothers. Until I went to a genetics seminar with my AP bio class, this would never have crossed my mind.
Anyway, to the point. The reason Thailog can't be Goliath's son is because of genetics. Thailog's genes came from Goliath, which in turn came from Goliaths parents. Now, therefore, technically Thailog has the same parents as Goliath (since all his chormosomes can be traced back through Goliath's parents).
There's more to it that, but I wanted to keep it it terms understandable. Another simpler way to make the argument is that since Thatilog has the same genes as Goliath, they're sort of like identical twins, born years apart (and of course identical twins are siblings of each other). It's the same with the labrynth clones as well, they are bothers of the gargs they were cloned from.
Delilah is a whole different story. I can't explain that one, but i guess she's a half sister to both Elisa and Demona, but I can't prove it genetically.
Sorry if I seemed to have a "you're wrong, I'm right" attitude, but I just wanted to let you know what the real world truth was. Now Gargoyles Universe truth, well, I can't tell you what's right and wrong, that's for you to decide.
Thanx for listening to my lecture :)
Greg responds...
Actually, I found this post very interesting and informative. It doesn't change the emotional reality of how Thailog and Goliath feel about each other. But it's good to know. And I appreciate -- greatly -- that you weren't trying to make me look foolish, just filling me in on an obvious gap in my knowledge.
It's over a year since you posted this, so I don't have any idea if you're still hanging around. But Thank You, Artemis. It is appreciated.
Peter Mason writes...
Anonymous writes...
The Weird Sisters had Demona and MacBeth steal Coldstone so Goliath wouldn't notice the disappearance of the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and the Grimorum and so he wouldn't go looking for them, but what I don't understand is why were the Weird Sisters afraid that Goliath would go looking for the talisman? I mean he'd never find them considering that the Sisters would have taken the talismans to the Archmage on Avalon where Goliath could never reach them.
Greg responds...
But Goliath did reach them, so the potential was there.
In fact, one could easily argue that the Archmage's greatest mistake was delaying for Goliath's arrival.
recorded on 10-17-01
Are you saying that the Sisters through their connection to fate foresaw the possiblity that Goliath would come to Avalon and had MacBeth and Demona steal Coldstone to try to prevent it from happening?
Greg responds...
Not that I'm disagreeing -- because your not off the mark -- but I think you're overthinking it.
Goliath presented a potential threat, so he was misdirected.
FanForLife writes...
Hi Greg. Just wondering--was the part in the Journey where Goliath went to see Elisa the first time the two talked or saw each other since the kiss at the end of Hunter's Moon 3? If not, when did they first see or talk to each other after the kiss? Thanks!
Greg responds...
Elisa and Goliath kiss on the morning of October 27, 1996.
Goliath goes to see Elisa just after Midnight on October 29, 1996.
I find it hard to believe that they didn't see each other at all on the 27th or 28th. But it's very possible that they had no time alone to discuss what had happened.
Corrie "Cormak" McDermott writes...
Hi Greg,
I have some questions about Goliath and Elisa.
1. You've said that Goliath started falling in love with Elisa pretty early on. And that he fell in love with her before he even understood how attractive she was physically. By Elisa's reactions in various episodes it seemed that she knew he was falling for her and she tried to deny the truth for a while. Not only his feelings but hers as well. Obviously by what happened in Hunter's Moon I , II and III she realized that she was in love with him and she let him know. Did she fall in love him because of the way he has protected her and his personality?
1a. Did she find him attractive physically?
1b. or both?
2. I've read your comments that Elisa and Goliath would realize that their relationship before it really started was impossible and they would date members of their own species, possibly at a Halloween party. Would this party have been the first time they dated since the breakup?
2a. Also would it be at this party that they would both realize that they still loved each other?
2b. or would that have been later on down the road?
3. Does Elisa know that Goliath was watching her and Jason in her apartment? (Hunter's Moon Part II)
3a. If not, would Goliath ever tell her?
Greg responds...
1. Well, I think Elisa probably thinks he's good looking too, but yes, it's who he is inside that really attracts her. In my opinion, anyway.
1a. I think so.
1b. Both, yeah. I gotta start reading ahead.
2. I think so. But it's not a party so much as a night out. At least in my mind.
2a. Yes.
2b. I don't think they ever stopped loving each other, but they tried to let logic and reason dictate their feelings. By the end of this Halloween adventure, they'd realize that it was pointless to supress their feelings. Certainly unfair to their dates.
3. Not sure. Don't think so.
3a. It seems unnecessary now.
Chapter XLII: "Sanctuary"
Time to ramble...
This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.
But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.
And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?
During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:
Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.
ROMANCE
Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."
This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.
Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?
After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.
THE GARGOYLE WAY
Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.
He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.
Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?
And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?
THE CATHEDRAL
There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.
But there's some nice stuff going on...
Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?
Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?
Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?
I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."
Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."
Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.
At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.
TOURISTS
Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)
I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"
THE WEDDING NIGHT
We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.
Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"
And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.
The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?
I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.
Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.
Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.
Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?
And he has some great lines too:
"You and what clan?"
"Teamwork is so overrated."
"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)
To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.
Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.
BATTLE
There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.
I love Goliath's two-handed punch.
I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."
But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.
When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:
<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>
Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!
This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.
But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.
Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.
KEITH meet MR. DAVID
I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.
1st Epilogue:
Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."
That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.
And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.
2nd Epilogue:
One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.
This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.
And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."
(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Stacey writes...
Dear Mr Weisman.
Hey there. Hope you had a nice holiday.
I was wondering when it was that you actualy thought up the idea for the garg universe? I mean, did it just pop in your head on day or had it been there for a while?
Also, was there any 'plan' to the story. Was there always going to be a Goliath/Elisa thing? Were the Rookery eggs always going to be on Avelon? Was there some kind of planning towards it?
I know this is probably incredibly sappy but its been killing me ever since I saw that episode...what WAS Goliath going to say to Elisa at the end of 'The Mirror'? Ok, for a start, it wouldn't have been much because he knew that the sun would be up soon. And all the clan were around. But what would he have actualy told her - sworn absolute undying love? Admited that he liked her a bit? I know its a stupid question, but its a lovley scene. Also, what were they like with each other the next night? I guess they both knew what he meant (even if I don't).
Okay, thats all for now. Thank you very much.
Greg responds...
Stacey,
It's been so long since you posted these questions (last October) I'm going to assume that you've already got the answers since all of them are available in the archives.
But just in case, and briefly.
I've been fascinated with Gargoyles since high school at least, but the series was developed by my team at Disney between 1991 and 1994.
Yes, we had a plan. G&E was planned. The eggs showing up on Avalon (or some equivalent) was planned..
I'm not sure that Goliath had the exact words on the tip of his tongue. (This isn't like Titania whispering in Fox's ear.) I think he would have tried to stammer something out about his growing feelings for her. But it would have stopped far short of "declaring his undying love".
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