A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Illustrated in the scene following Macbeth saving Duncan, what was the latter's reason for fearing and/or hating gargoyles? We know very well why Gillecomgain hated Demona and her kind. It's easy to guess why Duncan's son, Malcolm Canmore, hated them because of the part they played in Macbeth becoming king of Scotland. So, why did Duncan want to destroy Demona and her clan before he came to suspect that Macbeth was conspiring against him?
Because Macbeth seemed to have a relationship with them. And because he couldn't control them. And because they were powerful.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
King Canute of England dies, widowing Emma for the second time. He is succeeded by Harold Harefoot, his son by his first wife Elfgiva .
Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out of jail soon. (In order to make a point, she exaggerates and says he'll be out in a month, when in fact it's closer to two.) Brooklyn steals the Grimorum Arcanorum for Demona. Then he lures Goliath to the Cloisters, where Demona casts a spell on Goliath that enslaves him to her will. Brooklyn realizes his error and takes control of Goliath away from her. Demona manages to get away with a few pages from the Grimorum.
Xanatos, his Steel Clan Robots and the gargoyles depart the castle wearing packs that will distribute a harmless gas that can be ignited to make it look like the sky is on fire. After they leave, Demona reveals her presence. Demona attempts to sabotage Xanatos' plan, but Macbeth confronts Demona, determined to end both their lives. Xanatos and Goliath return to see the Weird Sisters disable both Demona and Macbeth and depart with them. The sky is set ablaze, and the humans are freed from the spell just before the sun rises on a new day.
5:39am EST - [withheld]
5:00pm EST - [withheld]
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Harold Godwinson is killed at the Battle of Hastings. William the Conqueror conquers England.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Arthur is crowned King of Britain.
Hakon the Viking lays siege to Castle Wyvern, but is driven away by the Wyvern Clan of gargoyles. The Captain of the Guard invites Goliath and Demona to the celebratory feast. Princess Katharine is most seriously displeased. She demotes the Captain, declaring that from now on he will report to the Magus, who later prepares a spell to deal with the gargoyle clan, should they get out of hand. Seeing that Goliath will continue to tolerate human prejudice, Demona and the Captain find an excuse to temporarily lure the gargoyles away, so that the castle can be sacked and the humans taken away by Hakon, leaving Castle Wyvern to the gargoyles once more.
Michaelmas. Constantine III is so furious he initiates a plan to destroy all the gargoyles in Scotland.
Macbeth is made High King of Scotland. He swears on the Stone of Destiny, to protect Scotland and serve her people. Macbeth names Demona and publicly rewards her and her gargoyles, welcoming them as his allies into his home and castle. Demona becomes his primary advisor. Thorfinn is rewarded with basic autonomy over Orkney, in practice if not in name.
Xanatos inspects his castle atop the Eyrie Building. He wants everything to be perfect before he attempts to wake the gargoyles.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth's forces are defeated. Thorfinn is killed at Dunsinane, widowing his young wife Ingibjorg. Canmore destroys all of Demona's gargoyles, except her. Canmore pursues Macbeth to Lunfanan, and history will record that Macbeth was killed there. But Macbeth and Demona discover a side effect of the Weird Sisters' spell. They are immortal and forever linked, feeling each other's pain when near. For either to die, one must kill the other. Prince Luach is able to rally his father's forces temporarily. Canmore is driven back. Luach is made High King of Scotland. Macbeth and Demona vanish severally into myth.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
With help from Demona and his cousin Thorfinn, Macbeth defeats Duncan's forces at the battle of Bothgoanan, near the town of Elgin in Moray, Scotland. Duncan is killed near Elgin. An unpopular king, he is not mourned by many. Duncan's son Canmore is banished and spirited away to England by Duncan's few remaining supporters. Canmore will become a protégé of Edward the Confessor, a Saxon. But he also becomes the new Hunter. For his own safety, Donald Ban is spirited away to Ireland.
Vinnie visits family.
1) Does Demona blame the Captain for the Wyvern Massacre, or just Goliath for not taking the other gargoyles out like their plan was?
2) What would have happened if Demona had never overheard Macbeth and Bodhe's conversation about betraying the gargoyles to the English, or if she did overhear but Macbeth had defended the gargoyles to Bodhe?
1. She has plenty of blame to spread around.
2. Lots of stuff.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
England's King, Canute of Denmark, divorces Elfgiva and marries Aethelred's widow, Queen Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt).
The United States of America declares its independence.
First, I want to thank you for doing Today in Gargoyle Universe History. It really is fun.
I have some question about Princess Elena's parents. In a TIGUH for June 6th, you said "Hardicanute dies suddenly at a wedding, perhaps due to poison. He is succeeded by his half-brother, Edward the Confessor, son of Aethelred the Unready and Emma of Normandy, as King of England. Edward locks his mother Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt) up in a nunnery.".
I did take the time to look up Emma of Normandy and found these sites from which I am going to make my conjecture:
Sadly, I couldn't find much info about Emma of Paris.
1)Is Princess Elena's father Richard I of Normandy?
2)Is Princess Elena's mother either Gunnor of Crêpon or Emma of Paris?
2a)Assuming the answer to #2 is yes, which one is Prince Elena's mother?
Thank you for answering this question.
1. Elena is the daughter of Duke Richard the Fearless of Normandy.
2. I don't have that information.
2a. See above.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hardicanute dies suddenly at a wedding, perhaps due to poison. He is succeeded by his half-brother, Edward the Confessor, son of Aethelred the Unready and Emma of Normandy, as King of England. Edward locks his mother Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt) up in a nunnery.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Adam Weishaupt founds the Bavarian Illuminati.
Hakon's spirit reaches out across the globe and senses that his descendant Wolf shares his hatred of Goliath. He summons Wolf to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx depart from Avalon and arrive in Australia. There they encounter the Matrix phenomena created by a pregnant Fox and her mother Anastasia Renard.
What did Demona think of Prince Malcolm? He didn't seem to hate gargoyles, but he instilled a fear of Gargoyles in his daughter, Katherine, that adversely affected Demona's clan.
I don't think she had a problem with Malcolm. Back in those days, she wasn't as virulently anti-human as she is now.
You said on the COS dvd commentary, when Demona swings Macbeth around, "I think she's just a little bit in love with him there." While I don't think it was an strong romantic love, I do think she was much more affectionate towards him than she would have been to someone else. We never see her that friendly towards anyone else she's not romantically involved with, not even her own clan members. My question is, was she aware of it? Was he? Was Gruoch? >=)
No. Not really. No comment.
Why hadn't Macbeth and Gruoch gotten married by 1032? They were 27 years old by the time she was betrothed to Gillecomgain. Why didn't they marry before that?
He had NO prospects. And Duncan probably wouldn't give permission (as both were of the royal blood). The fact that both were still unmarried to anyone else at the advanced age of 27, I think is an indication of how much they were in love.
What was Macbeth's relationship with Gillecomgain like after Gillecomgain became the High Steward of Moray?
What was Macbeth's relationship with Bodhe like after he became King in 1040? By 1057, neither he nor Luach seemed particularly fond of him.
I think they were FOND of him, actually. Doesn't mean they agreed with him much.
What was Demona's relationship with the people of Moray castle like? At Macbeth's coronation, those that were present cheered her on. How did they treat her over the next 17 years, and how did she react?
Generally, pretty well. But there was probably some occasional tension.
What happened to Duncan's wife? Was she alive when Duncan was killed?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
What was the relationship between Macbeth and Duncan like during the eight years that Duncan was king? By 1040, he seemed to trust Macbeth enough to go walking with him and his son.
Macbeth tried to demonstrate his loyalty. Duncan always regarded these attempts with suspicion.
What did Gillecomgain think of being betrothed to marry Gruoch? Did he choose her, or was the arrangement purely on Duncan's orders?
I think he saw the value of the alliance politically and economically.
Did Luach have any children in the Gargoyles universe? Historically, he did. And his descendants tried to seize the throne in the 1100s.
He did, yes.
How did Canmore find out about Macbeth and Demona's link? How did those rumors get started?
Think about it. Macbeth ages nearly twenty years in one night and suddenly has a gargoyle ally... Plus a few people knew about the "bargain" including Bodhe. Word was bound to get around. Not necessarily accurate word. But word.
The Scottish people seemed pretty hateful/fearful towards gargoyles before Macbeth's reign. How was he able to change opinions and get people to accept Demona and her clan?
Winners tend to get to make the rules. And the gargoyles helped the winning side win. So that went a LONG way toward reducing more OVERT prejudice.
Did the English really care about exterminating Demona and her clan like Bodhe thought?
It was only an excuse. They had larger political, religious and territorial concerns. (Not that they LIKED gargoyles.)
You said that Gruoch's brother, MacBodhe, was murdered in 1033, and that Gillecomgain was the one that assasinated him. How is this possible? Gillecomgain died in 1032.
I'm pretty sure I said that King Maol Chalvim II (or some combination of Maol & Duncan and/or someone OTHER than Gillecomgain that one or the other hired) murdered MacBodhe in 1033. If I said anything to imply that Gillecomgain himself killed MacBodhe, that was an error. But I don't think I said that.
In 1020, Gruoch and Bodhe are referred to as guests at Moray castle. Where did they live, and how often did they visit Moray after Findlaech's death?
They did not live at Castle Moray. I'm sure Bodhe had his own keep, but that keep was somewhere in Moray, and Bodhe's family were probably frequent guests of the Castle.
What did Bodhe think of Gruoch being betrothed to Gillecomgain? He didn't seem nearly as enthusiastic at that wedding as he was when she married Macbeth. Which 'suitor' did he prefer her being married to?
I think he LIKED Macbeth better (who wouldn't?) but he was too afraid to defy Duncan.
Why did Goliath forgive the Captain of the Guards? Sure, he may not have intended for the Gargoyles to die, but he had no problems with the deaths of the soldiers of the castle, the refugees who were unlikely to be spared, etc... He even helped Hakon chase down Katherine when she tried to flee. This guy's just as creepy as any other villain we've seen.
Forgiveness helps the forgiver at least as much as the forgiven. Or that's the theory.
You've hinted that Luach was conceived during the time that Gruoch was married to Gillecomgain, with Macbeth being the father. Why would he and Gruoch take such a risk? He gave her up for her own safety... committing adultery would probably have resulted in her execution.
Yep. So why would they take the risk?
The only answer I have is... why do you think?
Just to be clear, I'd like to make the point that I haven't "hinted" that Luach was conceived during Gruoch's marriage to Gillecomgain. Luach was definitely conceived during that time. I have suggested that PERHAPS Macbeth was the biological father, but that neither Gruoch or Macbeth know for sure.
Hi, my question concerns Demona and Gruoch, two of my favourite characters (One of my favourite moments in "Gargoyles" is when Demona goes completely against her prejudices and saves Macbeth and Gruoch when they're slipping from the parapet, and Gruoch's nervous little "thank you" to her afterwards). But anyway:
1. During the "Golden Age" of Macbeth's rule, how well did Gruoch and Demona get on? Or to make the question a bit more generalised, what was their relationship?
Obviously they wouldn't have been best friends, but I also can assume that as such close companions to Macbeth they would have spent a reasonable amount of time in each other's company.
2a. Would they have considered each other as a "friend"?
2b. Or was there a little bit of resentment/jealously/competition going on in terms of their separate relationships with Macbeth?
2c. Or did they just stay out of each other's way?
Thank you very much in advance for any reply you give me, I think the time and effort you put into communicating with fans is amazing! My fingers are crossed that the second half of season two will make it to DVD.
1. I'd like to explore this someday. But generally, I think they got along on the surface, but that each had a healthy suspicion of the other.
2a. Try "ally".
2b. I'm not sure I'd characterize it that way. Demona distrusts humans. Gruoch distrusted Demona.
If Donald Canmore was indeed the wellspring of the Hunter line and ancestor of Jason, Jon and Fiona how exactly did he sire children before his death at the young age of seventeen(1068-1085) or is this another misreporting of history similar to Macbeth actually being killed by Malcom Canmore or Malory and those writers before him leaving out gargoyles because of the prejudice of the time :) ?
Huh. The research I have indicates that Donald Canmore was born in 1069 and died in 1093. If that's wrong, it does screw me up a bit. I guess I'll need to triple check.
A long while ago, somebody asked you about what elements that you're strongly opposed to had been brought into "Gargoyles", and you said that illiteracy was one of them. Now, this clearly showed up in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", with its point about how being able to read was important. But it recently occurred to me that the dangers of illiteracy showed up in another episode: "Awakening Part Two".
When Hakon tears a few pages out of the Grimorum and burns them (among them the counter-spell), he says sneeringly about the spell book, "Makes me glad I can't read." Thus, Hakon's illiteracy (and pride in it) is tied in to the destruction of the counter-spell, which results in the Magus being unable to undo his spell on the gargoyles, meaning that they're trapped in their stone sleep for the next thousand years.
I don't know whether you'd consciously planned for Hakon's illiteracy to be a factor in his act or if it was just a "fortunate accident", but I did find it interesting enough to mention it.
It was VERY conscious. Long before "Lighthouse" was a glimmer in my eye, that was a message that I tried to get across with Hakon.
In the first two parts of "City of Stone", Duncan, while not yet King, often acts as though he already had royal authority. He appoints Gillecomgain to the post of High Steward of Moray, with no sign of having consulted his grandfather Maol Chalvim first. He also has the power to force a marriage between Gruoch and Gillecomgain, with Bodhe saying that it would be high treason to deny Duncan's wishes on the matter. In fact, he appears in the first two parts of "City of Stone" to be king in all but name, despite the fact that he doesn't become King of Scotland until two years after the events in "City of Stone Part Two". Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thought one... we were simplifying our storytelling by not including Maol Chalvim.
Thought two... I think Maol may have invested considerable authority into his grandson.
Thought three... I wouldn't be surprised to find out Duncan had "incapacitated" Maol to some degree...
In "Avalon Part One", Maol Chalvim displays strong suspicions towards Constantine in his conversation with Kenneth. While Constantine's subsequent actions (murdering Kenneth and seizing the throne) show Maol Chalvim's suspicions to be justified, I can't help also remembering what you said about how Maol Chalvim would himself usurp the throne from Kenneth III ten years later. Was Maol Chalvim's attitude towards Constantine intended, in part, to be one based on "I suspect him of plotting treachery, because that's what I'd do in his place?" (a la Elisa's remark in "Protection" about how the corrupt are always readiest to believe that others can be corrupted)?
To some degree, we were planting seeds for what we knew was to come -- and for what we had already revealed. Maol Chalvim's grandchildren were Duncan and Macbeth (and Thorfinn). Maol favored Duncan. What does that tell you?
Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
I remember in Awakening Part II when Xanatos asks Owen to bring in the construction crew to transport Castle Wyvern to Manhatten, and Owen replies saying that not only will the cost be "Astronomical," but not many are willing to do it because the locals say Castle Wyvern is Haunted. My question is are the hauntings Owen refers to created by the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain, since as far as I know they may have hovered there for over a thousand years (I think Hakon mentions that himself, but I won't promise to it). If this was asked at some Gathering I wouldn't know since I've never been to one. However I do plan on going to Montreal this coming year! (:
Did you make it?
Anyway, yes. Hakon and the Captain.
An "Upgrade" question. During the gargoyles' fight with the Pack at the bank at the beginning of the episode, Wolf shouts, as the Pack is retreating, "This isn't over!" The last time that I watched this episode on tape, I realized that those were the exact same words that Hakon shouted in "Awakening Part One" after the gargoyles had turned back his first attack on the castle.
Did you know at the time that Wolf was descended from Hakon, and put that line of Wolf's in as a foreshadowing of "Vendettas"?
Hi, I wanted to ask a couple of questions related to Scottish royal genealogy and Gargoyles.
First, I was wondering about the identity of Prince Malcolm. Having read "Once upon a time, there were three brothers," I see that you make him the youngest son of King Malcolm I. But the sources I have note only two sons - Duff and Kenneth II. Is Prince Malcolm, then, made up? (Duff, I'd note, had a younger son Malcolm who died in 990...)
Second, in "City of Stone", Lulach/Luach is depicted as Macbeth's son, but in actual history, he was Gruoch's son by Gillecomgain (who is the first Hunter, in Gargoyles). Was this change made on purpose, to simplify things, or was it a mistake?
Thanks. (And just wanted to say that these aren't criticisms. I remember when I first watched Gargoyles how impressed I was by the effort that was made to actually depict a recognizable version of Scottish early Medieval history - "City of Stone" was what really drew me in to the show in the first place. I'd seen it a few times before that, and then I remember coming home from school and saying "a cartoon show with a revisionist version of the story of Macbeth? What's going on?" And after that I was hooked.)
1. Yes, Malcolm and his daughter Katharine are fictional characters that we added to the Gargoyles' Universe.
2. It wasn't a mistake. Our research indicated that Macbeth adopted Lulach/Luach. I have posited that perhaps the reason he did that was because he was in fact the boy's father... conceived before Macbeth & Gruoch were actually married.
Glad you liked it.
When was Bodhe born and when Bodhe died ?
The research I have indicates that Bodhe, a son of Kenneth III, was born in 985 and died in 1058 at the age of 73. To be honest, I've found that different sources often have different dates, so it's hard to be 100% sure. But these, I've decided, are the dates of the Garg-Universe Bodhe.
In "City of Stone Part Four", when Canmore is invading Scotland as the Hunter, he doesn't reveal his true identity as Canmore until facing Macbeth directly just after the fall of Castle Moray. I recently found myself wondering why he did that for so long; after all, in concealing his identity as "Canmore, son of Duncan, rightful king of Scotland, come to reclaim what's his" he was apparently throwing away a great propaganda advantage. Why did he conceal his true identity for most of that time?
Let me try putting it this way: the Batman joined with the citizens of Metropolis to secure Gotham City's throne for Bruce Wayne. He simply didn't want people to know that HE was Bruce Wayne. He didn't want to make himself THAT kind of target.
Yes, of course, as Batman, he was another kind of target. But we don't see him taking the lead in any battles. If he keeps back -- as the Batman -- no one's likely to specifically go after him. Plus, as the Joker and Riddler were seen as his primary targets, than the mysterious reappearance of the Batman was a huge propoganda coup.
But that's not to say that Bruce Wayne wasn't part of the propaganda mix.
Canmore for Bruce Wayne
The Hunter for the Batman
The English for the citizens of Metropolis
Scotland for Gotham City
The Gargoyles for the Joker
Macbeth for the Riddler
Hopefully this has not been asked/answered before..Can't find it in the archives.
Why were the vikings attacking Castle Wyvern? Because they could? Or some other reason?
Just a side comment...until a few days ago, I had never known that Fang actually asks Goliath "How many gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"!! Have I missed a lot!
Here's my ramble on "Shadows of the Past".
First off, of course, this is where the Avalon World Tour begins (if you don't count the "Avalon" triptych), which makes it a biggie. I agree with you that the reruns in between the three instalments of it (which aired, as I recall, in November-December 1995, February 1996, and May 1996 - more or less) make the World Tour seem longer than it really was. (Incidentally, you're right that you were able to bring out more than 18 episodes of "Gargoyles" in the September-December period; I remembered that the "fall run" ended with "Grief", and so worked out that it was 30 new episodes during that period).
As I mentioned before, I enjoyed the Avalon World Tour, and agree with you that something like that was necessary for the series at some point (especially in bringing in enough other gargoyles to make it feasible for the species to survive and recover - as I've mentioned here before, something along the lines of the World Tour was probably the only realistic way for Goliath to discover that there were gargoyles left in other parts of the world, given that he couldn't simply hop on board the next flight from New York to London or Japan).
Angela's correct (from the original legends perspective) about it always being summer on Avalon; in fact, I remember that the old Welsh legends about Avalon (or, more accurately, its "literary predecessors") called it the Summer Country or the Region of the Summer Stars.
In hindsight from "Vendettas", I picked up on the significance of that axe that Goliath unearths - and agree with you now that Hakon's mace from the Wyvern Massacre would indeed have worked better. Too late for that now, though.
I also liked that line (which I considered very poetic) of Elisa's about "old wounds".
The Captain and Hakon's tormenting of Goliath was very effective - probably the creepiest part, in my opinion, was when Angela and Elisa appear in Goliath's eyes to be the Captain and Hakon - but then we hear Angela and Elisa's voices coming from the Captain and Hakon's mouths.
The Captain of the Guard's change of heart worked for me (again, I especially liked the bit that you mentioned where he's looking troubledly at his hands as he and Hakon solidify). In fact, it made sense in view of his role in "Awakening" - he'd never wanted the clan massacred, and was horrified as to how that had gone wrong. I might add that Hakon showed, again, just how creepy he is when he gets into the fight with Goliath and begins laughing as his fists pass through Goliath - the reason for that being now, not that Hakon's insubstantial and Goliath solid, but the other way around.
Incidentally, the Captain actually appears better-looking in the scene where he's giving Goliath his thanks, just before he ascends.
And I'll confess that I'm one of those who would have preferred Hakon to have remained trapped in the cave for all time - I felt, when "Vendettas" aired, that it destroyed some of the effectiveness, in retrospect, of Hakon's sentence: trapped alone for eternity, with nobody at hand for him to hate. (Also, "Vendettas" felt anticlimactic on the Hakon front; in "Shadows of the Past", he battles Goliath by skillfully undermining him with a lot of psychological subtlety; in "Vendettas", he's reduced to simply fighting him in a slugfest with a big dumb werewolf - though don't tell Wolf that I called him that. :) ). But I do think that you made a good point about how, ultimately, Hakon would have to be given more permanent resolution than just that.
Incidentally, your treatment of the megalith that the Captain and Hakon were using, and your comments on it, make me wonder now how you would have handled Stonehenge if you'd ever gotten to do an episode involving it (especially since you mentioned having had plans to send King Arthur and Griff there during their quest for Merlin) - a pity that we may never know the answer to that now.
*I think it's appropriate that as the Captain is (in essence) redeemed and "ascends", that he is beatified a bit.
*I get what you're saying about Hakon, certainly. And yet, I really like "Vendettas" and hardly think that Hakon's post-Vendettas fate is likely to be any kinder than his post-Shadows fate. And although Hakon was the series' first big villain, he was hardly the most impressive of our villainous creations.
But, let's be honest, I just couldn't resist giving Clancy Brown the opportunity for a David Warner-esque tour de force performance. I'm sure I'll get into this topic more when (some day) I get around to rambling on Vendettas, but I think Clancy's double duty in Vendettas is perhaps even more impressive than what Warner did -- (a) because Clancy did what he did with a then amateur voice director (i.e. me) and (b) because the two characters he was playing (Wolf & Hakon) allowed for much less subtlty than Warner's two Archmages. (This of course, is not designed to take any credit away from the brilliant David Warner, simply to give Clancy his just desserts as well. And speaking of Clancy, he does a great Mr. Freeze in the new "The Batman" series.)
*The ideas used in Shadows for the Megaliths, were in fact cribbed from ideas I've had for Stonehenge for some time. (Pre-dating the creation of Gargoyles, in fact.) It would be interesting to see (even to me) how I handled Stonehenge now. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to repeat myself, but I'd also want to be consistent and I don't want to betray the notions I've had in my head forever. That's the problem when your brain begins to cannibalize its own ideas. A danger I find myself facing all the time.
Hi Greg. Here's my question.
In Awakening part one, a man covered in white made a bargain with Hakon. Was that The Magus? And what did it have to do with the whole spell thing? Because I know it was Demona and Captain of the Guard's idea to let the Vikings have the castle. I just don't know what the Magus(or whoever it was)had to do with it.
It was the Captain. We simply tried to fool you into thinking it was the Magus.
In the Gargoyles universe, you mention that Luach was the son of Macbeth and Gruoch, and born in 1033. In actual history, Luach was the son of Gillcomgain and Gruoch, and born in 1030. After Gillcomgain's death in 1032, Macbeth married Gruoch and adopted Luach as his own son and heir, and Luach even succeeded Macbeth as King briefly in 1054. I was curious as to the reasons you modified these aspects of history?
I didn't. Not to my knowledge. My research indicates that Lulach (Luach) was born in early 1033, after Gillecomgain's death, but too soon to be Macbeth's son (at least legally). We glanced over it in the episode, but, yes, Macbeth adopts Gillecomgain after marrying Gruoch in 1032.
Further, my research indicated that rumors were rampant in court that Mac was actually Lulach's biological father, as well.
It's possible the research I received was faulty. (For example, a typo caused us to spell and pronounce Lulach's name incorrectly.) But we made every effort to weave our fiction among the facts -- without changing those facts.
The date of Lulach's birth is approximate anyway. So any time between 1030 and 1033 is probably "legitimate".
Through which of Malcolm Canmore's children do the Canmore family of Hunters (Charles, Jon, Jason, Robyn, et al) descend from? Is it from one of the children from his first mariage to Ingibiorg Finnsdottir (King Duncan II, Malcolm or Donald), his second marriage to St. Margaret Atheling (King Edmund I, King Edgar, King Alexander I the Fierce, King David I the Saint, Edward, Ethelred, Matilda or Mary), or as yet another child?
I debated with myself as to whether or not I wanted to reveal this at this time, but what the heck...
The answer is Donald Canmore.
I could be wrong, but in Vendettas I think Hudson called Hakon "Hakon the destroyer of clans". So, did Hakon have a reputation for smashing gargoyle clan or so it just the one?
I don't know if that's an exact quotation. I think he called him, "Hakon, Clan-Slaughterer". But I might be mistaken.
In any case, Hudson was referring to the Wyvern Clan.
When, in "City of Stone Part Two", Duncan manipulated Macbeth into seeking out Gillecomgain to avenge his father, what was he hoping the result would be:
a. That Macbeth would slay Gillecomgain, thus ridding Duncan of an increasingly unreliable and likely rebellious former ally? (The result, of course, that actually happened).
b. That Gillecomgain would slay Macbeth, Duncan's leading rival to the throne?
c. That the two of them would kill each other, thus ridding Duncan of both of them?
Well, I'm sure his ultimate preference would have been c, of course. But either a or b were good news, so he'd settle happily for the a he got.