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Illustrated in the scene following Macbeth saving Duncan, what was the latter's reason for fearing and/or hating gargoyles? We know very well why Gillecomgain hated Demona and her kind. It's easy to guess why Duncan's son, Malcolm Canmore, hated them because of the part they played in Macbeth becoming king of Scotland. So, why did Duncan want to destroy Demona and her clan before he came to suspect that Macbeth was conspiring against him?
Because Macbeth seemed to have a relationship with them. And because he couldn't control them. And because they were powerful.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
King Canute of England dies, widowing Emma for the second time. He is succeeded by Harold Harefoot, his son by his first wife Elfgiva .
Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out of jail soon. (In order to make a point, she exaggerates and says he'll be out in a month, when in fact it's closer to two.) Brooklyn steals the Grimorum Arcanorum for Demona. Then he lures Goliath to the Cloisters, where Demona casts a spell on Goliath that enslaves him to her will. Brooklyn realizes his error and takes control of Goliath away from her. Demona manages to get away with a few pages from the Grimorum.
Xanatos, his Steel Clan Robots and the gargoyles depart the castle wearing packs that will distribute a harmless gas that can be ignited to make it look like the sky is on fire. After they leave, Demona reveals her presence. Demona attempts to sabotage Xanatos' plan, but Macbeth confronts Demona, determined to end both their lives. Xanatos and Goliath return to see the Weird Sisters disable both Demona and Macbeth and depart with them. The sky is set ablaze, and the humans are freed from the spell just before the sun rises on a new day.
5:39am EST - [withheld]
5:00pm EST - [withheld]
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Harold Godwinson is killed at the Battle of Hastings. William the Conqueror conquers England.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Arthur is crowned King of Britain.
Hakon the Viking lays siege to Castle Wyvern, but is driven away by the Wyvern Clan of gargoyles. The Captain of the Guard invites Goliath and Demona to the celebratory feast. Princess Katharine is most seriously displeased. She demotes the Captain, declaring that from now on he will report to the Magus, who later prepares a spell to deal with the gargoyle clan, should they get out of hand. Seeing that Goliath will continue to tolerate human prejudice, Demona and the Captain find an excuse to temporarily lure the gargoyles away, so that the castle can be sacked and the humans taken away by Hakon, leaving Castle Wyvern to the gargoyles once more.
Michaelmas. Constantine III is so furious he initiates a plan to destroy all the gargoyles in Scotland.
Macbeth is made High King of Scotland. He swears on the Stone of Destiny, to protect Scotland and serve her people. Macbeth names Demona and publicly rewards her and her gargoyles, welcoming them as his allies into his home and castle. Demona becomes his primary advisor. Thorfinn is rewarded with basic autonomy over Orkney, in practice if not in name.
Xanatos inspects his castle atop the Eyrie Building. He wants everything to be perfect before he attempts to wake the gargoyles.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth's forces are defeated. Thorfinn is killed at Dunsinane, widowing his young wife Ingibjorg. Canmore destroys all of Demona's gargoyles, except her. Canmore pursues Macbeth to Lunfanan, and history will record that Macbeth was killed there. But Macbeth and Demona discover a side effect of the Weird Sisters' spell. They are immortal and forever linked, feeling each other's pain when near. For either to die, one must kill the other. Prince Luach is able to rally his father's forces temporarily. Canmore is driven back. Luach is made High King of Scotland. Macbeth and Demona vanish severally into myth.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
With help from Demona and his cousin Thorfinn, Macbeth defeats Duncan's forces at the battle of Bothgoanan, near the town of Elgin in Moray, Scotland. Duncan is killed near Elgin. An unpopular king, he is not mourned by many. Duncan's son Canmore is banished and spirited away to England by Duncan's few remaining supporters. Canmore will become a protégé of Edward the Confessor, a Saxon. But he also becomes the new Hunter. For his own safety, Donald Ban is spirited away to Ireland.
Vinnie visits family.
1) Does Demona blame the Captain for the Wyvern Massacre, or just Goliath for not taking the other gargoyles out like their plan was?
2) What would have happened if Demona had never overheard Macbeth and Bodhe's conversation about betraying the gargoyles to the English, or if she did overhear but Macbeth had defended the gargoyles to Bodhe?
1. She has plenty of blame to spread around.
2. Lots of stuff.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
England's King, Canute of Denmark, divorces Elfgiva and marries Aethelred's widow, Queen Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt).
The United States of America declares its independence.
First, I want to thank you for doing Today in Gargoyle Universe History. It really is fun.
I have some question about Princess Elena's parents. In a TIGUH for June 6th, you said "Hardicanute dies suddenly at a wedding, perhaps due to poison. He is succeeded by his half-brother, Edward the Confessor, son of Aethelred the Unready and Emma of Normandy, as King of England. Edward locks his mother Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt) up in a nunnery.".
I did take the time to look up Emma of Normandy and found these sites from which I am going to make my conjecture:
Sadly, I couldn't find much info about Emma of Paris.
1)Is Princess Elena's father Richard I of Normandy?
2)Is Princess Elena's mother either Gunnor of Crêpon or Emma of Paris?
2a)Assuming the answer to #2 is yes, which one is Prince Elena's mother?
Thank you for answering this question.
1. Elena is the daughter of Duke Richard the Fearless of Normandy.
2. I don't have that information.
2a. See above.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hardicanute dies suddenly at a wedding, perhaps due to poison. He is succeeded by his half-brother, Edward the Confessor, son of Aethelred the Unready and Emma of Normandy, as King of England. Edward locks his mother Emma (Princess Katharine's aunt) up in a nunnery.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Adam Weishaupt founds the Bavarian Illuminati.
Hakon's spirit reaches out across the globe and senses that his descendant Wolf shares his hatred of Goliath. He summons Wolf to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. Meanwhile, Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx depart from Avalon and arrive in Australia. There they encounter the Matrix phenomena created by a pregnant Fox and her mother Anastasia Renard.
What did Demona think of Prince Malcolm? He didn't seem to hate gargoyles, but he instilled a fear of Gargoyles in his daughter, Katherine, that adversely affected Demona's clan.
I don't think she had a problem with Malcolm. Back in those days, she wasn't as virulently anti-human as she is now.
You said on the COS dvd commentary, when Demona swings Macbeth around, "I think she's just a little bit in love with him there." While I don't think it was an strong romantic love, I do think she was much more affectionate towards him than she would have been to someone else. We never see her that friendly towards anyone else she's not romantically involved with, not even her own clan members. My question is, was she aware of it? Was he? Was Gruoch? >=)
No. Not really. No comment.
Why hadn't Macbeth and Gruoch gotten married by 1032? They were 27 years old by the time she was betrothed to Gillecomgain. Why didn't they marry before that?
He had NO prospects. And Duncan probably wouldn't give permission (as both were of the royal blood). The fact that both were still unmarried to anyone else at the advanced age of 27, I think is an indication of how much they were in love.
What was Macbeth's relationship with Gillecomgain like after Gillecomgain became the High Steward of Moray?
What was Macbeth's relationship with Bodhe like after he became King in 1040? By 1057, neither he nor Luach seemed particularly fond of him.
I think they were FOND of him, actually. Doesn't mean they agreed with him much.
What was Demona's relationship with the people of Moray castle like? At Macbeth's coronation, those that were present cheered her on. How did they treat her over the next 17 years, and how did she react?
Generally, pretty well. But there was probably some occasional tension.
What happened to Duncan's wife? Was she alive when Duncan was killed?
I'm not revealing this at this time.
What was the relationship between Macbeth and Duncan like during the eight years that Duncan was king? By 1040, he seemed to trust Macbeth enough to go walking with him and his son.
Macbeth tried to demonstrate his loyalty. Duncan always regarded these attempts with suspicion.
What did Gillecomgain think of being betrothed to marry Gruoch? Did he choose her, or was the arrangement purely on Duncan's orders?
I think he saw the value of the alliance politically and economically.
Did Luach have any children in the Gargoyles universe? Historically, he did. And his descendants tried to seize the throne in the 1100s.
He did, yes.
How did Canmore find out about Macbeth and Demona's link? How did those rumors get started?
Think about it. Macbeth ages nearly twenty years in one night and suddenly has a gargoyle ally... Plus a few people knew about the "bargain" including Bodhe. Word was bound to get around. Not necessarily accurate word. But word.
The Scottish people seemed pretty hateful/fearful towards gargoyles before Macbeth's reign. How was he able to change opinions and get people to accept Demona and her clan?
Winners tend to get to make the rules. And the gargoyles helped the winning side win. So that went a LONG way toward reducing more OVERT prejudice.
Did the English really care about exterminating Demona and her clan like Bodhe thought?
It was only an excuse. They had larger political, religious and territorial concerns. (Not that they LIKED gargoyles.)
You said that Gruoch's brother, MacBodhe, was murdered in 1033, and that Gillecomgain was the one that assasinated him. How is this possible? Gillecomgain died in 1032.
I'm pretty sure I said that King Maol Chalvim II (or some combination of Maol & Duncan and/or someone OTHER than Gillecomgain that one or the other hired) murdered MacBodhe in 1033. If I said anything to imply that Gillecomgain himself killed MacBodhe, that was an error. But I don't think I said that.
In 1020, Gruoch and Bodhe are referred to as guests at Moray castle. Where did they live, and how often did they visit Moray after Findlaech's death?
They did not live at Castle Moray. I'm sure Bodhe had his own keep, but that keep was somewhere in Moray, and Bodhe's family were probably frequent guests of the Castle.
What did Bodhe think of Gruoch being betrothed to Gillecomgain? He didn't seem nearly as enthusiastic at that wedding as he was when she married Macbeth. Which 'suitor' did he prefer her being married to?
I think he LIKED Macbeth better (who wouldn't?) but he was too afraid to defy Duncan.
Why did Goliath forgive the Captain of the Guards? Sure, he may not have intended for the Gargoyles to die, but he had no problems with the deaths of the soldiers of the castle, the refugees who were unlikely to be spared, etc... He even helped Hakon chase down Katherine when she tried to flee. This guy's just as creepy as any other villain we've seen.
Forgiveness helps the forgiver at least as much as the forgiven. Or that's the theory.
You've hinted that Luach was conceived during the time that Gruoch was married to Gillecomgain, with Macbeth being the father. Why would he and Gruoch take such a risk? He gave her up for her own safety... committing adultery would probably have resulted in her execution.
Yep. So why would they take the risk?
The only answer I have is... why do you think?
Just to be clear, I'd like to make the point that I haven't "hinted" that Luach was conceived during Gruoch's marriage to Gillecomgain. Luach was definitely conceived during that time. I have suggested that PERHAPS Macbeth was the biological father, but that neither Gruoch or Macbeth know for sure.
Hi, my question concerns Demona and Gruoch, two of my favourite characters (One of my favourite moments in "Gargoyles" is when Demona goes completely against her prejudices and saves Macbeth and Gruoch when they're slipping from the parapet, and Gruoch's nervous little "thank you" to her afterwards). But anyway:
1. During the "Golden Age" of Macbeth's rule, how well did Gruoch and Demona get on? Or to make the question a bit more generalised, what was their relationship?
Obviously they wouldn't have been best friends, but I also can assume that as such close companions to Macbeth they would have spent a reasonable amount of time in each other's company.
2a. Would they have considered each other as a "friend"?
2b. Or was there a little bit of resentment/jealously/competition going on in terms of their separate relationships with Macbeth?
2c. Or did they just stay out of each other's way?
Thank you very much in advance for any reply you give me, I think the time and effort you put into communicating with fans is amazing! My fingers are crossed that the second half of season two will make it to DVD.
1. I'd like to explore this someday. But generally, I think they got along on the surface, but that each had a healthy suspicion of the other.
2a. Try "ally".
2b. I'm not sure I'd characterize it that way. Demona distrusts humans. Gruoch distrusted Demona.
If Donald Canmore was indeed the wellspring of the Hunter line and ancestor of Jason, Jon and Fiona how exactly did he sire children before his death at the young age of seventeen(1068-1085) or is this another misreporting of history similar to Macbeth actually being killed by Malcom Canmore or Malory and those writers before him leaving out gargoyles because of the prejudice of the time :) ?
Huh. The research I have indicates that Donald Canmore was born in 1069 and died in 1093. If that's wrong, it does screw me up a bit. I guess I'll need to triple check.
A long while ago, somebody asked you about what elements that you're strongly opposed to had been brought into "Gargoyles", and you said that illiteracy was one of them. Now, this clearly showed up in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time", with its point about how being able to read was important. But it recently occurred to me that the dangers of illiteracy showed up in another episode: "Awakening Part Two".
When Hakon tears a few pages out of the Grimorum and burns them (among them the counter-spell), he says sneeringly about the spell book, "Makes me glad I can't read." Thus, Hakon's illiteracy (and pride in it) is tied in to the destruction of the counter-spell, which results in the Magus being unable to undo his spell on the gargoyles, meaning that they're trapped in their stone sleep for the next thousand years.
I don't know whether you'd consciously planned for Hakon's illiteracy to be a factor in his act or if it was just a "fortunate accident", but I did find it interesting enough to mention it.
It was VERY conscious. Long before "Lighthouse" was a glimmer in my eye, that was a message that I tried to get across with Hakon.
In the first two parts of "City of Stone", Duncan, while not yet King, often acts as though he already had royal authority. He appoints Gillecomgain to the post of High Steward of Moray, with no sign of having consulted his grandfather Maol Chalvim first. He also has the power to force a marriage between Gruoch and Gillecomgain, with Bodhe saying that it would be high treason to deny Duncan's wishes on the matter. In fact, he appears in the first two parts of "City of Stone" to be king in all but name, despite the fact that he doesn't become King of Scotland until two years after the events in "City of Stone Part Two". Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thought one... we were simplifying our storytelling by not including Maol Chalvim.
Thought two... I think Maol may have invested considerable authority into his grandson.
Thought three... I wouldn't be surprised to find out Duncan had "incapacitated" Maol to some degree...
In "Avalon Part One", Maol Chalvim displays strong suspicions towards Constantine in his conversation with Kenneth. While Constantine's subsequent actions (murdering Kenneth and seizing the throne) show Maol Chalvim's suspicions to be justified, I can't help also remembering what you said about how Maol Chalvim would himself usurp the throne from Kenneth III ten years later. Was Maol Chalvim's attitude towards Constantine intended, in part, to be one based on "I suspect him of plotting treachery, because that's what I'd do in his place?" (a la Elisa's remark in "Protection" about how the corrupt are always readiest to believe that others can be corrupted)?
To some degree, we were planting seeds for what we knew was to come -- and for what we had already revealed. Maol Chalvim's grandchildren were Duncan and Macbeth (and Thorfinn). Maol favored Duncan. What does that tell you?
Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?
I don't want to get all gushy, but Gargoyles changed my life and you can't even begin to imagine how much I appreciate the work you've done. That being said, I have a small question. Well, a series of questions.
Is Duncan a descendant of Constantine or Calvin? I guess what I'm asking is: Did Calvin reclaim the throne from Constantine after he murdered Kenneth? When Duncan first appears, he's the prince, but it was never specified who the King was. I'd guess that Duncan was of Constantine's blood, only because they sort of look similar, and also had common virtues of treachery and deceit.
Or am I just totally off base and are we even talking about the same throne? I don't really know much about Scotland, and when I think about it, it's remotely concievable that we could be talking about two different provinces or kingdoms or houses or whatever they call it.
I apologize for all the circumlocution. Thanks again for everything.
Keep in mind, you COULD look this stuff up for yourself, but...
Duncan is the grandson of Maol Chalvim II (i.e. the Maol Chalvim we saw in "Avalon, Part One").
Constantine III (again from "Avalon") would eventually be overthrown by Maol's older cousin Kenneth III (NOT to be confused with Maol's dad, Kenneth II from Avalon).
Maol himself would then overthrow his cousin Kenneth III and rule for years.
Maol had no sons and three daughters. So he made the son of his eldest daughter, Prince Duncan (of City of Stone), his heir. (Note: Macbeth is the son of Maol's middle daughter.)
Hope that clears it up.
MacBeth was Scottish nobility and related to the king; so is he a from the line of Princess Katherine or the usurper, Constantine?
Well, they're all related, at least distantly.
But here goes...
Kenneth I (the first high king of Scotland) had two sons Constantine I and Aodh.
Connie-1 begot Donald II. Meanwhile (to keep our generations straight) Aodh begot Constantine II.
Donnie-2 begot Maol Chalvim I, while Connie-2 begot Indulf. (Up to this point, NONE of these are people we've met in the series.)
Maollie-1 had three sons: Duff, Kenneth II and [the fictional] Malcolm of Wyvern, while Innie begot Culen.
Kennie-2 (Katharine's uncle) begot Maol Chalvim II (Katharine's cousin) while Malcolm of Wyvern begot [the equally fictional] Katharine... and while Cullie begot Constantine III. (All of these characters, except Cullen, were featured in "Avalon, Part One".)
Maollie-2 had three daughters and no sons.
The eldest Bethoc begot Duncan I (from "City of Stone"). The middle daughter Doada married Findlaech and begot Macbeth.
It's easier to see on a chart. But hopefully you can make your own chart with the info provided.
I remember in Awakening Part II when Xanatos asks Owen to bring in the construction crew to transport Castle Wyvern to Manhatten, and Owen replies saying that not only will the cost be "Astronomical," but not many are willing to do it because the locals say Castle Wyvern is Haunted. My question is are the hauntings Owen refers to created by the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain, since as far as I know they may have hovered there for over a thousand years (I think Hakon mentions that himself, but I won't promise to it). If this was asked at some Gathering I wouldn't know since I've never been to one. However I do plan on going to Montreal this coming year! (:
Did you make it?
Anyway, yes. Hakon and the Captain.
An "Upgrade" question. During the gargoyles' fight with the Pack at the bank at the beginning of the episode, Wolf shouts, as the Pack is retreating, "This isn't over!" The last time that I watched this episode on tape, I realized that those were the exact same words that Hakon shouted in "Awakening Part One" after the gargoyles had turned back his first attack on the castle.
Did you know at the time that Wolf was descended from Hakon, and put that line of Wolf's in as a foreshadowing of "Vendettas"?
Hi, I wanted to ask a couple of questions related to Scottish royal genealogy and Gargoyles.
First, I was wondering about the identity of Prince Malcolm. Having read "Once upon a time, there were three brothers," I see that you make him the youngest son of King Malcolm I. But the sources I have note only two sons - Duff and Kenneth II. Is Prince Malcolm, then, made up? (Duff, I'd note, had a younger son Malcolm who died in 990...)
Second, in "City of Stone", Lulach/Luach is depicted as Macbeth's son, but in actual history, he was Gruoch's son by Gillecomgain (who is the first Hunter, in Gargoyles). Was this change made on purpose, to simplify things, or was it a mistake?
Thanks. (And just wanted to say that these aren't criticisms. I remember when I first watched Gargoyles how impressed I was by the effort that was made to actually depict a recognizable version of Scottish early Medieval history - "City of Stone" was what really drew me in to the show in the first place. I'd seen it a few times before that, and then I remember coming home from school and saying "a cartoon show with a revisionist version of the story of Macbeth? What's going on?" And after that I was hooked.)
1. Yes, Malcolm and his daughter Katharine are fictional characters that we added to the Gargoyles' Universe.
2. It wasn't a mistake. Our research indicated that Macbeth adopted Lulach/Luach. I have posited that perhaps the reason he did that was because he was in fact the boy's father... conceived before Macbeth & Gruoch were actually married.
Glad you liked it.
When was Bodhe born and when Bodhe died ?
The research I have indicates that Bodhe, a son of Kenneth III, was born in 985 and died in 1058 at the age of 73. To be honest, I've found that different sources often have different dates, so it's hard to be 100% sure. But these, I've decided, are the dates of the Garg-Universe Bodhe.
In "City of Stone Part Four", when Canmore is invading Scotland as the Hunter, he doesn't reveal his true identity as Canmore until facing Macbeth directly just after the fall of Castle Moray. I recently found myself wondering why he did that for so long; after all, in concealing his identity as "Canmore, son of Duncan, rightful king of Scotland, come to reclaim what's his" he was apparently throwing away a great propaganda advantage. Why did he conceal his true identity for most of that time?
Let me try putting it this way: the Batman joined with the citizens of Metropolis to secure Gotham City's throne for Bruce Wayne. He simply didn't want people to know that HE was Bruce Wayne. He didn't want to make himself THAT kind of target.
Yes, of course, as Batman, he was another kind of target. But we don't see him taking the lead in any battles. If he keeps back -- as the Batman -- no one's likely to specifically go after him. Plus, as the Joker and Riddler were seen as his primary targets, than the mysterious reappearance of the Batman was a huge propoganda coup.
But that's not to say that Bruce Wayne wasn't part of the propaganda mix.
Canmore for Bruce Wayne
The Hunter for the Batman
The English for the citizens of Metropolis
Scotland for Gotham City
The Gargoyles for the Joker
Macbeth for the Riddler
Hopefully this has not been asked/answered before..Can't find it in the archives.
Why were the vikings attacking Castle Wyvern? Because they could? Or some other reason?
Just a side comment...until a few days ago, I had never known that Fang actually asks Goliath "How many gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"!! Have I missed a lot!
Here's my ramble on "Shadows of the Past".
First off, of course, this is where the Avalon World Tour begins (if you don't count the "Avalon" triptych), which makes it a biggie. I agree with you that the reruns in between the three instalments of it (which aired, as I recall, in November-December 1995, February 1996, and May 1996 - more or less) make the World Tour seem longer than it really was. (Incidentally, you're right that you were able to bring out more than 18 episodes of "Gargoyles" in the September-December period; I remembered that the "fall run" ended with "Grief", and so worked out that it was 30 new episodes during that period).
As I mentioned before, I enjoyed the Avalon World Tour, and agree with you that something like that was necessary for the series at some point (especially in bringing in enough other gargoyles to make it feasible for the species to survive and recover - as I've mentioned here before, something along the lines of the World Tour was probably the only realistic way for Goliath to discover that there were gargoyles left in other parts of the world, given that he couldn't simply hop on board the next flight from New York to London or Japan).
Angela's correct (from the original legends perspective) about it always being summer on Avalon; in fact, I remember that the old Welsh legends about Avalon (or, more accurately, its "literary predecessors") called it the Summer Country or the Region of the Summer Stars.
In hindsight from "Vendettas", I picked up on the significance of that axe that Goliath unearths - and agree with you now that Hakon's mace from the Wyvern Massacre would indeed have worked better. Too late for that now, though.
I also liked that line (which I considered very poetic) of Elisa's about "old wounds".
The Captain and Hakon's tormenting of Goliath was very effective - probably the creepiest part, in my opinion, was when Angela and Elisa appear in Goliath's eyes to be the Captain and Hakon - but then we hear Angela and Elisa's voices coming from the Captain and Hakon's mouths.
The Captain of the Guard's change of heart worked for me (again, I especially liked the bit that you mentioned where he's looking troubledly at his hands as he and Hakon solidify). In fact, it made sense in view of his role in "Awakening" - he'd never wanted the clan massacred, and was horrified as to how that had gone wrong. I might add that Hakon showed, again, just how creepy he is when he gets into the fight with Goliath and begins laughing as his fists pass through Goliath - the reason for that being now, not that Hakon's insubstantial and Goliath solid, but the other way around.
Incidentally, the Captain actually appears better-looking in the scene where he's giving Goliath his thanks, just before he ascends.
And I'll confess that I'm one of those who would have preferred Hakon to have remained trapped in the cave for all time - I felt, when "Vendettas" aired, that it destroyed some of the effectiveness, in retrospect, of Hakon's sentence: trapped alone for eternity, with nobody at hand for him to hate. (Also, "Vendettas" felt anticlimactic on the Hakon front; in "Shadows of the Past", he battles Goliath by skillfully undermining him with a lot of psychological subtlety; in "Vendettas", he's reduced to simply fighting him in a slugfest with a big dumb werewolf - though don't tell Wolf that I called him that. :) ). But I do think that you made a good point about how, ultimately, Hakon would have to be given more permanent resolution than just that.
Incidentally, your treatment of the megalith that the Captain and Hakon were using, and your comments on it, make me wonder now how you would have handled Stonehenge if you'd ever gotten to do an episode involving it (especially since you mentioned having had plans to send King Arthur and Griff there during their quest for Merlin) - a pity that we may never know the answer to that now.
*I think it's appropriate that as the Captain is (in essence) redeemed and "ascends", that he is beatified a bit.
*I get what you're saying about Hakon, certainly. And yet, I really like "Vendettas" and hardly think that Hakon's post-Vendettas fate is likely to be any kinder than his post-Shadows fate. And although Hakon was the series' first big villain, he was hardly the most impressive of our villainous creations.
But, let's be honest, I just couldn't resist giving Clancy Brown the opportunity for a David Warner-esque tour de force performance. I'm sure I'll get into this topic more when (some day) I get around to rambling on Vendettas, but I think Clancy's double duty in Vendettas is perhaps even more impressive than what Warner did -- (a) because Clancy did what he did with a then amateur voice director (i.e. me) and (b) because the two characters he was playing (Wolf & Hakon) allowed for much less subtlty than Warner's two Archmages. (This of course, is not designed to take any credit away from the brilliant David Warner, simply to give Clancy his just desserts as well. And speaking of Clancy, he does a great Mr. Freeze in the new "The Batman" series.)
*The ideas used in Shadows for the Megaliths, were in fact cribbed from ideas I've had for Stonehenge for some time. (Pre-dating the creation of Gargoyles, in fact.) It would be interesting to see (even to me) how I handled Stonehenge now. On the one hand, I wouldn't want to repeat myself, but I'd also want to be consistent and I don't want to betray the notions I've had in my head forever. That's the problem when your brain begins to cannibalize its own ideas. A danger I find myself facing all the time.
Hi Greg. Here's my question.
In Awakening part one, a man covered in white made a bargain with Hakon. Was that The Magus? And what did it have to do with the whole spell thing? Because I know it was Demona and Captain of the Guard's idea to let the Vikings have the castle. I just don't know what the Magus(or whoever it was)had to do with it.
It was the Captain. We simply tried to fool you into thinking it was the Magus.
In the Gargoyles universe, you mention that Luach was the son of Macbeth and Gruoch, and born in 1033. In actual history, Luach was the son of Gillcomgain and Gruoch, and born in 1030. After Gillcomgain's death in 1032, Macbeth married Gruoch and adopted Luach as his own son and heir, and Luach even succeeded Macbeth as King briefly in 1054. I was curious as to the reasons you modified these aspects of history?
I didn't. Not to my knowledge. My research indicates that Lulach (Luach) was born in early 1033, after Gillecomgain's death, but too soon to be Macbeth's son (at least legally). We glanced over it in the episode, but, yes, Macbeth adopts Gillecomgain after marrying Gruoch in 1032.
Further, my research indicated that rumors were rampant in court that Mac was actually Lulach's biological father, as well.
It's possible the research I received was faulty. (For example, a typo caused us to spell and pronounce Lulach's name incorrectly.) But we made every effort to weave our fiction among the facts -- without changing those facts.
The date of Lulach's birth is approximate anyway. So any time between 1030 and 1033 is probably "legitimate".
Through which of Malcolm Canmore's children do the Canmore family of Hunters (Charles, Jon, Jason, Robyn, et al) descend from? Is it from one of the children from his first mariage to Ingibiorg Finnsdottir (King Duncan II, Malcolm or Donald), his second marriage to St. Margaret Atheling (King Edmund I, King Edgar, King Alexander I the Fierce, King David I the Saint, Edward, Ethelred, Matilda or Mary), or as yet another child?
I debated with myself as to whether or not I wanted to reveal this at this time, but what the heck...
The answer is Donald Canmore.
I could be wrong, but in Vendettas I think Hudson called Hakon "Hakon the destroyer of clans". So, did Hakon have a reputation for smashing gargoyle clan or so it just the one?
I don't know if that's an exact quotation. I think he called him, "Hakon, Clan-Slaughterer". But I might be mistaken.
In any case, Hudson was referring to the Wyvern Clan.
When, in "City of Stone Part Two", Duncan manipulated Macbeth into seeking out Gillecomgain to avenge his father, what was he hoping the result would be:
a. That Macbeth would slay Gillecomgain, thus ridding Duncan of an increasingly unreliable and likely rebellious former ally? (The result, of course, that actually happened).
b. That Gillecomgain would slay Macbeth, Duncan's leading rival to the throne?
c. That the two of them would kill each other, thus ridding Duncan of both of them?
Well, I'm sure his ultimate preference would have been c, of course. But either a or b were good news, so he'd settle happily for the a he got.
Hi Greg Happy New Year all
Vanity(don't you mean Gruouch??)
Know this is about Awakenings (which I think is the best episode in the whole series). Goliath caught Hakon's sword. What is the deal. Hudson's little dagger in Long way to morning cut a statue in half. But Hakons double edged long sword could only scratch Goliath. He's tough and rugged but come on now. And I really loved Hakon's reaction "Fight men they're not invincible" If that isn't invincible what the hell is? Why should Goliath even dodge weapons they just bounce off anyway?
Why did you let that happen? Catching a sword without it even hurting him seriously at all!!
I don't know what you're referring to vis-a-vis Vanity/Gruoch...?
As to your Awakening question, Hakon's sword did hurt Goliath. Cut down to the bone. He just toughed it out. Cuz he's Goliath. That's who he is. You expected him to cry?
And Hakon's sword could certainly cut THROUGH bone. But he would have needed to put more power behind the swing to do that. Given his position on that tower, Hakon did the best he could, but it wasn't good enough, and Goliath's been in enough fights to know what he can and cannot take. He stopped the blow with his hand before it could gain enough momentum to do serious damage.
What Hakon saw, before he spoke his line, was the Goliath's blood. We made a point of that, and even convinced our S&P exec to let us show the blood. Which is very rare for cartoons. If Goliath had been invincible, there would have been no blood. And the sword would have bounced off his hide. Which it didn't. Weapons don't bounce off our gargs.
Hudson doesn't have a dagger, by the way, but a sword. And a lot of Gargoyle muscle behind his swing.
And you, Super, have a lot of attitude, bordering on disrespect. Just so you know, it's really off-putting.
Dear Mr. Weisman,
I have a questoin for you, and I am fully aware that you will probably exercise you're right to not answer it because it is a question that could possibly involve a lot of writting, that you haven't given any thought to, don't feel like answering, or just be stupid. So, I thank you so much for you're time :) and for such a kick'n show :) and for the super hot character of Puck :D so here's my question:
In "The City of Stone" flashback after Mac Beth successfully wins the battle against Duncan, he exilles Prince Canmore. What happens to him right after the guards take him away? Do they put him on a boat straight to England? Does he get an escort? Does he get to pack? Do they feed him? Does he try to escape again?
2. Is the Prince Canmore in "The City of Stone" full name Malcom Canmore III ?
I realize I am probably just being curious about silly stuff in a really awesome show, but I'm so curious about it I just have to ask! Plus, even if curiousity killed the cat, satisfaction brought her back! LOVE YA!
1. Well, I doubt he took a boat from Scotland to England. He was probably escorted there, with messengers sent ahead so that the English would expect his arrival. Did they feed him en route? Yes. Did he get to pack? I don't know. Probably not. Does he try to escape? No. I think at this point he goes to England and tries to win the English over to his side.
2. Canmore = Malcolm III = Malcolm Canmore = Maol Chalvim III = Ceann Mor = Big Head
what is the significance of the bird on top of Hakon's helmet?
(sorry, no questions this time, but)
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU (and all those other people) for all the Scottish history in the show. Because of it, I am totally facinated with the topic. It's even better that I know cuz I am from scottish decent (as well as a little english and irish), and my other side came from france (sounds like someone in the show, ne?)
Also, it has inspired me to read Macbeth, and I used to hate Shakespeare!
So thanx again to you and all the little peoples!
And while I'm on the topic of scottish history, can you PLEASE finish "Once Upon a Time there were Three Brothers"? I'd make me very happy!
You're very welcome.
As I've mentioned before, "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers" is kind of finished. For starters, there are only two brothers left. And although it wasn't necessarily my original intent, the piece wound up being more of a prologue to DARK AGES. So I took Three Brothers right up to the point where Dark Ages begins. And I stopped. To keep going would in fact be to begin Dark Ages, which is a HUGE project, that I'm not prepared to take on right now.
But I'm glad you liked it. It was, I think, my first and only attempt at Fan Fiction.
if all had gone on as planned after the sacking of Wyvern, what was the Captain planning on doing? retireing with ransom money? joining the Vikings?
Definitely not joining the Vikings. I'm not sure what "retired" means in this context. He'd definitely have to get out of town. But, yes, with the money.
1. had Tom ever seen a gargoyle or gargoyle clan before arriving with the refugees at Castle Wyvern in 994?
2. where were Tom and his mother and all the others from anyway? why were they refugees?
3. who was Tom's father?
4. besides his mother, were any of the refugees related to Tom? were any of the other refugees his father?
5. why did Katherine allow the refugees shelter at Wyvern? did they give her something in return, or was she just being nice?
1. Probably not. Certainly not that close up.
2. They were from a nearby village. And they were refugees because the Vikings had been raping and pillaging there way to Castle Wyvern.
3. Hah! Good question! I'm not saying at this time.
4. No. No.
5. It was her responsibility. Feudal lands worked by (in essence) serfs bring feudal responsibilities to protect those serfs in times of danger. It was the system.
I recently read your 'Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers..." story, and a key element in it is that Malcolm and the Captain of the Guard were dear friends. Robbie even says he'd lay down his life for Malcolm. My question is, if he cared so much for the prince, why was he so ruthlessly willing to cause his daughter's death? I would think that the idea of hurting the child of his best friend would be enough to make him change his mind about betraying them. If not for Katharine, for Malcolm. Did this cross Robbie's mind when he was planning the betrayal with Demona?
There's a lot of stuff that happens to Robbie between the end of Three Brothers and Awakening.
But thoughts cross minds all the time, so the answer is probably yes.
Time to ramble....
This chapter (episode) was brought to you by:
Director: Kazuo Terada
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Story: Michael Reaves
Teleplay: Michael Reaves & Brynne Chandler Reaves
Plus the usual suspects, including Frank and me.
The title is one of Michael's. I had the impulse to shorten it to "Shadows", but I didn't.
THE WORLD TOUR
As the recap ended and Tom shouted out: "Avalon doesn't take you where you want to go. Avalon sends you where you need to be!" My seven-year-old daughter Erin said, "Uh, oh."
"Uh, oh," indeed.
And so we begin Tier Four in earnest. Our quartet of travelers weren't headed straight home. Of course you couldn't know at that time just how long they'd be gone. And frankly when we started writing, neither did we.
It wasn't just the quantity of episodes (23 counting the Avalon three-parter, Kingdom, Pendragon, The Green and Future Tense) that we'd spend before everyone was reunited in Gathering One. It was the reruns in between.
What was supposed to be a five week trip became a five month trip. And so, for many of the fans it became interminable.
Why all the reruns? Well, the schedule finally just caught up with us. When Gargoyles was picked up for a second season by Buena Vista, I was asked how many we could reasonably produce for the fall quarter (between September & December of 1995) without interruption.
I told them that we were prepared to do six more. That was all the scripts that had been ordered (Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Beholder, Vows). But I said we could do 13. We had done 13 the first season with a ten month sliding schedule. Now we had just under twelve months so we could certainly do 13 again.
I was asked what's the most we could do. I said, well if we start right now we can do 18.
Not 52? They asked.
52? Are you nuts? (Well, I didn't say that exactly.) I said we'll never get 52 done for the fall quarter. We'll wind up with a lot of repeats. You (Buena Vista) will not be happy with all those repeats.
They were disappointed. So disappointed, that instead of ordering 18, they only ordered six. (If we can't have 52, then forget it. [Okay, they didn't exactly say that either, but that seemed like the basic attitude.])
So we get to work to do six. Two weeks pass. Buena Vista comes back and says. No, do 13.
We respond with, uh, okay. Of course we've lost two weeks, so it'll be a bit harder, but we can do it.
Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "No, do 18."
We grumble a bit, because now we've lost a month of prep time when we could have been building crews, etc. But okay, I said we could do 18. We'll manage.
Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "Do 52."
Now we balk. We warned you we couldn't do 52 in twelve months. Now you want us to do it in 10? It took us ten to do 13.
And so we did. We built multiple crews. Our staff increased exponentially. We expanded to four writing teams from one. We expanded from one pre-production team (in Japan -- waves at Roy) to three and a half (one in Japan) and two and a half here in L.A.
And we worked like little demons to bring you 52 for the fall quarter. But it was never going to happen.
We wound up doing pretty good. I don't have my old calendar in front of me, and I can't remember exactly how many we managed to air in the fall, but it was considerably more than the 18 that I thought we could do.
But it wasn't 52. And so we had reruns. And reruns. And reruns. And most of those reruns came in the middle of the World Tour. And thus... yes... it seemed to go on forever.
Of course, other people didn't care for it for other reasons. They felt it got away from the series strengths of the gargs in Manhattan. Obviously, it left behind four of our characters, and I'll admit that I underestimated the trio's popularity a bit.
But I felt it was important. The World Tour gave our series breadth and hope. It expanded the Gargoyles Universe, added many new characters and in particular added at least four other clans of gargoyles.
And I think some of the stories really kicked ass.
So I apologize for nothing. NOTHING, do you hear me, nothing!!!!!!
Except for that outburst. Sorry about that outburst.
Anyway, our first stop was no place new. Goliath immediately recognizes the ocean cliffside as "home, my home."
Even before Hakon and the Captain start to drive him crazy, his dialogue is laced with nostalgia.
He's so into being back in Scotland, that when he climbs the hill, he doesn't even take Elisa with him. Elisa goes with Angela. Which is no big deal. But usually, G's more of a gentleman than that. Particularly with Elisa.
Angela: "It was always summer on Avalon."
Just wanted to give a sense of things on the fair island. Seemed to fit the legends as well.
I can't say enough good things about the animation in this episode. It's just gorgeous. The work of Disney's studio in Tokyo. WOW! Production AND Pre-Production was done there. All sorts of little touches, like Elisa slipping briefly and regaining her footing. And GREAT, GREAT character animation. Great lighting as the characters enter the tunnels. STELLAR effects animation in the megalith chamber. Just wow gorgeous stuff.
And boy, did we fight over this episode. [Roy, I'd love to get your perspective on this.]
When we got the storyboard from Japan, Frank and I each found something that just drove us nuts.
For Frank, it was the Wyvern cliff. The castle was gone, of course, as Xanatos had taken it away. But the cliff seemed to otherwise remain in tact. Frank was adamant that a chunk of the cliff had clearly been taken away and was part of the Eyrie Building. You could see it on that design. So obviously, we needed a crater of sorts to exist back at Wyvern.
When Frank pointed it out to me, I agreed with him. It didn't bother me as much as it bothered him, but I agreed.
What bothered me was Elisa's parka. In the storyboard, Elisa was wearing a parka with a hood. Of course, she looked great in it. And it kept her warm and safe and dry. But there was of course, no way and no place where she could have acquired that parka. (The Avalon Eddie Bauer, maybe?) So I insisted the parka had to go.
Frank agreed with me after I pointed it out. It didn't bother him as much as it bothered me, but he agreed.
So we gave Japan both these notes. And to our surprise, they balked. They felt that the only changes we were allowed to make to their boards were S&P changes.
We couldn't believe it. Finally, they relented. But on the cliffside ONLY. They felt that was a fair compromise. Since that had been Frank's BIG note, he was appeased. But obviously, I was not. All sorts of people came to me asking me to back down.
But I wouldn't. And I can honestly say it was for you guys that I refused. I knew even then that OUR FANS paid attention. That we couldn't get away with Elisa suddenly having a warm coat from no where.
So I put my foot down, and Elisa stayed cold and wet.
And our Tokyo Studio had another reason to be annoyed with me.
I regret the tension, certainly. But I still think I did the right thing, so I apologize for NOTHING, DO YOU HEAR ME? NOTHING!!!!
Except for that outburst, I apologize for that outburst.
A great movie. A husband tries to convince his wife that she's going insane. It's now a staple of melodrama everywhere. And we used it too.
So the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain try to gaslight Goliath.
We tried to gaslight the audience a bit too. Tried to let them think for a bit that Goliath might just be losing it. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, maybe.
You can hear it in Goliath's voice. How he's lost in the past. Angela tells him that he did the right thing all those years ago by saving the Princess.
His only response: "Still, I wanted revenge." I love Keith David's reading of that line.
But we also wanted to play fair, so we dropped a hint: when Goliath hears Demona's voice, Bronx howls. He senses something. Always trust Bronx.
Bronx has a pretty important supporting role in this, btw.
THE AXE OF HAKON
When Goliath and friends first enter the caves, Goliath picks up an old Viking axe. Hakon's Axe. The one he uses in "Vendettas".
Should have been a mace by the way. Should have been the same mace you can see in the opening titles EVERY episode. The one that Hakon used to smash the gargoyles at Wyvern.
Shoulda been. My fault.
Okay, for that -- I apologize. I screwed up. Dang.
THE STREET PIZZA TRADITION
A CLASSIC MICHAEL REAVES' ELISA LINE:
"This place is creepier than the morgue at midnight."
Michael was great at giving Elisa this tough contemporary feel without taking us out of the moment.
Another good one: "Old wounds bleed as bright as new ones sometimes."
GETTING TO KNOW ANGELA
When Goliath pretends that he's NOT freaking out and having hallucinations, Angela can tell he's lying.
I love Brigitte's read there. She sounds SO SHOCKED: "He's not telling the truth."
You can tell she was raised in a world where there was little cause for lying.
Goliath attacking Elisa and Angela, thinking they are Hakon and the Captain.
Very dramatic. And again, we don't know yet, objectively that he isn't just going nuts.
What did you guys all think at this point? Did you suspect the truth?
Anyway, Bronx saves the day.
And Goliath runs off. He also has a nice stumble here. Again, parka aside, much amazing attention to detail and character in all this animation. Stunning.
STAR TREK INFLUENCE
No, I'm not talking about the voice cast.
Finally, we objectively reveal that Goliath is being influenced. We see two floating entities hovering over the scene. He doesn't see them, so they're not part of his dementia. Ergo (I don't have much opportunity to use the term ergo you know), ergo, they must be what is causing this.
Of course, they look like energy beings right out of Star Trek.
We also see Demona, Othello and Desdemona.
More of us playing fair. Sure they're identifiable. But of course, they (plus Iago) would be the souls LEAST likely to be haunting Wyvern and Goliath.
Yeah, Keith was the star. And we're always going on about Jeff's versatility. But we really were blessed with an amazing cast right down the line.
Salli does Elisa SO DARN WELL. It's the little things really.
Like when Angela explains about the fissure and how Goliath could die in it. Elisa says, "Swell." Just, "Swell." In one word, she says everything that needs to be said. It's hard. Try it sometime.
SPEAKING OF FISSURES
Bronx saves Goliath (temporarily) from falling by chomping down on his arm. Always thought that was cool. Would have liked to have drawn some blood, but we knew we'd never get away with that.
And the fissure itself is way cool. I love Goliath's fall.
And Elisa's determination, as she starts to climb down feet first. And I love the contrast, as Angela and Bronx, by virtue of their claws, climb down head first.
Some fans have felt, I know, that the Captain's change of heart at the end comes suddenly. That may be so. It's hard in a mere 22 minutes to achieve these arcs and turns. But as usual, we tried to drop subtle hints that he wasn't fully on board with Hakon.
Hakon is enjoying tormenting Goliath.
The Captain says: "Make an end to it." Hinting at his ambivalence. Torturing Goliath doesn't give him pleasure.
And while we're praising voice actors, how about a toast to the late Ed Gilbert, voice of the Captain of the Guard. Wonderful work here. Evil. Tortured. Redeemed.
Ed, wherever you are... THANKS!
THE FATAL FLAW IN YOUR PLAN
Demona. The Captain must have assumed that Demona died in the massacre. He and Hakon figured that her appearance would be the coup de grace. That Goliath's will would just dissolve when faced with her ghost.
They were almost right. But of course, G is no idiot. A bit slow sometimes, but not stupid. Demona's ghost shouldn't be here. Cuz the dame ain't dead.
[By the way, the idea to have her fist morph into a mace was mine. Just a little post-storyboard tidbit that I suggested amid bitching about the parka. They must have liked the idea because that wasn't one I insisted on, but they did it anyway. When push came to shove, everyone -- on both sides of the ocean -- was just VERY dedicated to making the show better.] [See. It's a mace because that's the weapon that we associate with the Massacre. Hakon's axe should have been a mace. How did I miss that?]
Anyway, Goliath figures out the truth and, hey, we've awakened the sleeping giant. He trashes the phony Demona. And we think he's going to smash all the others.
But something even more chilling happens. They all begin to dissolve around him. It still gives me the creeps. Very cool animation AND music and effects. (Props to the gang at Advantage Audio too.)
Or rather how come we don't have ghosts hanging around ALL the time. I didn't want this episode to open a spectral floodgate, where any character that was killed or had died in the past was available to haunt us.
So the Captain offers two possible explanations: Hate and Magic. Both present in ample supply. Plus Guilt. His guilt. Unfinished business.
Again, very cool effects on the Megalith's here. But the idea emerges from an old (if not very original) idea I've had since I was a teen. The notion that Stone Dances, that Megalith Circles were like Medieval Mystic Dynamos. Circles of power. That build and generate.
Really came to life here.
I love Hakon's line: "I can feel it. I can feel again." I love that transition halfway through the line between where he can feel that the process is working and when he realizes the simple fact that he can feel things again.
But again, watch the Captain feel his own hand. You can see the ambivalence there. Particularly when Goliath becomes the Ghost and Hakon is beating on him. Cap doesn't participate in this.
And Goliath helps him remember what he has forgotten. The Captain doesn't HATE Goliath. His problem is that G's presence has reinforced his own guilt.
But here's an opportunity to redeem himself: "I can't let this happen again!"
He pushes Hakon back.
Hakon: "You've crossed the lines of power, you fool."
You can almost here the Ghostbusters say, "Don't cross the streams."
So Cap hated himself, not G.
G forgives. He forgave the Magus last episode. Now he forgives the Captain. Shows that he's a pretty decent guy.
You think if Hakon made an effort? Nah.
Anyway, I like G's line: "One enemy. And one friend."
And then a positively angelic Captain returns briefly to say goodbye and thanks. I also like the "shackles of hate and guilt" line. And the way he calls Goliath, "Old Friend".
Elisa thinks she's in for a long story.
G: "Centuries long."
And as the sun rises, and Elisa -- as usual -- leans against her stone beau for a nap....
Hakon: "Don't leave me here alone!! Not without anyone to hate!!"
Many people think I should have left him there forever. But evil doesn't rest in peace in my opinion. When left alone it tends to get out of control.
Besides I already had this fun idea. What if Wolf was Hakon's descendant?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
There's no memo, outline or script for this one on my computer, so we'll head right into my ramble on...
"AVALON, PART ONE"
DIRECTOR: Dennis Woodyard.
WRITER: Lydia Marano.
STORY EDITOR: Brynne Chandler Reaves.
...is all over the place. So much was coming together in this three-parter. The Weird Sisters, the eggs, the Archmage, Tom, Princess Katharine, the Magus, Macbeth, Demona. This was our most ambitious story yet. Which given episodes like "The Mirror" or "Vows" and multi-parters like "Awakening" and "City of Stone" was saying something.
Of course "Avalon" was never designed to be the cohesive single story movie that "City of Stone" was. It was designed as a tryptych. Part one would bring our heroes up to date. Part two would bring our villains up to date. Part three would pit them against each other.
"Avalon I" also represented the first episode in our fourth tier. The three-parter was what we called a 'tentpole'. We knew we couldn't air it until all the Tier 3 episodes had aired. And we knew we couldn't air any other Tier 4 episodes until this three-parter had aired. Despite the fact that "The Price" aired out of order, generally our Tentpole/Tier system worked very well. Out of 66 episodes that I worked on only two: "The Price" and "Kingdom" aired out of order, hopefully with minimal damage to the continuity.
The title was one of mine. But initially I wasn't sure that we were going to call the island Avalon. Now, it's mind-boggling to me, but I actually had my assistant Monique Beatty (who's now a producer in her own right) research Brigadoon to find out if that name was created only for the musical, or if it was something pulled from legends. I was thinking of Avalon, but looking for something from a Scotish tradition as opposed to British. Fortunately, Brigadoon was created for the musical. So we were 'stuck' with Avalon. Which made including King Arthur a natural.
Many series don't reveal that an episode is going to be a multi-parter until you get to the 'To Be Continued' line at the closer. "Avalon, Part One" could have just been titled "Avalon". The conventional wisdom is that people are reluctant to commit the time to a multi-parter in advance. That it is better to hook them on the story before revealing that they HAVE to come back to see the end. I always felt that was cheating. What is your reaction to seeing "Part One" attached to a title?
Another cool shot of our gargs waking up. Always nice to reiterate that at the start of our bigger stories.
Bronx gets left behind. Of course, this often happens. It was one of the things that the World Tour would set about correcting in a BIG way. But we made his getting left behind a bit more obvious here. Usually, he just doesn't go. This time they won't take him and he's sad. We were laying pipe.
My 5-year-old son Benny asked where Hudson and the Trio were going. I had to think about it. "On Patrol, I guess."
Then the GUARDIAN shows up. I love his cool, Goliath-inspired armor. My 7-year-old daughter Erin immediately demanded to know who he was. I wouldn't tell her. (I'm so mean.) Did any of you guess?
Of course he immediately encounters BRENDAN & MARGOT. (What would one of our multi-parters be without him?)
Then comes the three gang-bangers from "AWAKENING, PART THREE". As usual, Keith David does the voice for one of them -- making it distinctive from both Goliath and MORGAN, who's about to come in and speak. The problem is we got a touch confused. In Awakening, Keith voices the bald white guy. Here he does the same voice, but it's assigned to the black guy. Hard to say which is wrong, except by virtue of which came first. It annoys me though.
Morgan's fun in this. I really like him. No one but Simon DelMonte will get this, and I don't know if he even reads these rambles, but Morgan kind of reminds me of Jeff Goslin, a character that Cary Bates and I created in Captain Atom.
Anyway, I like how Morgan talks Guardian down. And I like how the sword is much heavier than he thought it was going to be. His cop buddies tease him, but he maintains his sense of wonder and goodness when talking about the Guardian to Elisa.
That's kind of a cool scene. First off he describes Guardian's armor: "Real armor. King Arthur stuff." Anyone think this was a clue to what was coming in the next episode? Even with the Avalon title? Then he tells her the guy's looking for Gargoyles. Elisa of course discourages her fellow officers from taking Garg reports seriously. Everyone who's seen one must be a nut-case. These guys should form 'a club'. Then she finds out that this Guardian was asking for Goliath by name. BOOM.
Site of our last encounter with Demona and Macbeth. Another clue.
Once Elisa got a look at the Guardian's armor, she must have thought -- yeah, there's a Goliath connection here all right.
Goliath shows with Bronx, who gets to come along and come along and come along for once. Bronx always seemed underutilized to us. We knew we couldn't bring the whole clan along. (Too many characters and no poignancy.) But Bronx was an easy addition. Of course, Bronx is also useful as a kind of living personality test. If Bronx likes you, it's a damn good sign. Bronx likes Tom. Does he remember him? What scents do you figure the Guardian carried back from Avalon. Anyway, Bronx engenders immediate trust in the Guardian for Goliath.
I love this scene. Guardian gives everyone so little time to catch up. He talks about the Archmage, reveals that he's Tom and talks about 'the eggs' being in danger. *That was a fun idea. Keep you guys thinking in terms of eggs for twenty minutes and reveal that it's just a pet name for the Avalon Clan.*
Benny asked: "What kind of Eggs?"
Erin: "Gargoyle Eggs."
Benny: "I didn't know Gargoyles hatch out of eggs." [Well, keep in mind it's been a year since he saw the first thirty episodes. And he's too young to remember the first time he saw the ones we're watching now.]
Then there's the skiff. Elisa: "Where'd that boat come from? ... To where? The other side of the lake? ... Wait for me!"
This all sounds fishy to her. Nothing makes sense. I wanted to get a clear shot in there of the pond in Central Park so that you could see objectively that it doesn't go anywhere. But I never quite managed that. I wanted you guys to be confused. Or at any rate to have a million questions. But like Elisa, no matter how suspicious, I figured you'd want to go along for the ride.
Mary, Katharine, the Magus and young Tom are all reintroduced. It's very clear that the first three have all learned their lesson from Awakening. They've all really become better people. Tom, of course, didn't need to learn that lesson. But he does learn to be a hero. He officially becomes the Guardian. It begins, I believe, as just a nice gesture on the part of the Princess. Later, of course, it'll become the truth. Then there's the long journey. I like the montage there. Hardship. We never had the time to show enough of the hardship of tenth century life.
Our gang heads into Edinburgh. Constantine's followers are all over the place. They all seem to look like Disney storyboard artists for some reason. ;)
There's some stellar voice work in this ep. Morgan Shepard as King Kenneth II. Sheena Easton making her Garg Premiere as Finella. Ian Buchanan as Constantine. (I've already mentioned Keith's versatility.)
But as usual, real props must be handed out to Jeff Bennnett and Kath Soucie.
Jeff plays Brooklyn, the Magus and Maol Chalvim. (No Bruno or Owen or Vinnie in this ep, I'm afraid.)
Kath plays Katharine, Mary and all three Weird Sisters.
Benny saw Finella and said: "That's one of the witches."
A year ago, Tom was his favorite character. Now Tom barely registered. And he really is fascinated with the Weird Sisters. Anyway, I corrected him, but I was glad that they were appearing later.
Ian Buchanan, once of General Hospital, is playing a cad here. We have to very quickly set up a lot of politics, sexual and otherwise. This story was as historical as we could make it based on the available research, the fact that we had to fit in a few fictional characters and eggs, and screen time compression.
Believe it or not, we also had another character originally that we cut early on because it was just getting too damn complicated. Katharine and Maol Chalvim's cousin: the future King Kenneth III. The father of Bodhe. Yep. That Bodhe. The father of Gruoch.
Kenneth III winds up being made High King of Scotland after Constantine is killed. To get a sense of their relationship, at least as I see it, you might want to check out "Once upon a time there were three brothers..."
(Or to give you a hint, ten years after the events depicted here, King Kenneth III would be murdered by Maol Chalvim's operatives during a civil war. Maol Chalvim was also known as Malcolm Forranach, the Destroyer. We used the Maol Chalvim version of his name so as not to confuse him with Katharine's father Prince Malcolm. Just as in City of Stone we emphasized Malcolm Canmore's Canmore name for the same reason.)
Anyway, Maol Chalvim seems intense but right on the money here. He's even kind of heroic when he and the Magus bring Tom back to Katharine's apartment, and he begs Katharine to go. Kind of heroic. He still leaves her. We were trying very hard to balance out his minor role here with his future roll as the grandfather of and major influence on Duncan. (Of course, he's also Macbeth's grandfather, as well.)
After Katharine tells Maol to go, there's a weird cut of him just standing there smiling. We needed some kind of transition before he took off running, and I guess that was the best we could do. But it's still awkward as hell.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
We establish early on that Katharine doesn't think much of Constantine. You wouldn't know it from Awakening, but obvioulsy she's learned to be a decent judge of character.
Kenneth isn't quite so sharp. Everyone can see that he's a fool for Finella. And he doesn't recognize Constantine's threat (despite the fact that Constantine's father was a bitter enemy and) despite the fact that his son flat out tells him to beware. My thinking was that the crown had kept bouncing back and forth between different branches of the royal family. Kenneth had hoped that by taking Constantine in, instead of banishing him, he'd be able to be a positive influence on the boy. A nice idea perhaps, but maybe Kenneth was too innattentive to pull it off. And Maol probably was too covetous to really be a brother to young Con.
Anyway, Constantine tricks Finella and kills the king. We hear Finella sobbing, just to prove that she was neither in on it nor that she would approve of it. (Though one wonders what her reaction would have been down the road if Constantine hadn't spurned her in favor of Katharine. Would she have adjusted to the crime? Or did Constantine become an unredeemable villain in her eyes immediately? I hate to say it, but I tend to think it's the former. Actually, I don't hate to say it. She's more interesting to write that way.)
Erin asked: "He killed King Arthur? Why?"
That's a tough question. So first I had to explain that it was King Kenneth, not King Arthur. Then my wife Beth helped out by explaining that Constantine wanted to be king.
We come back from the act and we see that Constantine was ready for the takeover. The Banners are immediately changed in a scene clearly inspired by the Ian McKellan (spelling?) movie version of Shakespeare's Richard III. (A version I heartily recommend, by the way.)
We also continue to set up the Magus' own tragedy. He loves Katharine. Has loved her since before Awakening. That feeling is shown to deepen here when she is once again in danger. And when Constantine tries to coerce her into marrying him. (The astute Mary and Tom have to hold him back.) Here, we sense that maybe Katharine might some day return that love. That's what I wanted you all to think anyway. Did you?
Constantine takes his crown. Originally we wanted to stage this with the Stone of Destiny as we did with Macbeth. But again, I think we just had too many sets.
Michaelmas. I just like that word.
Constantine is fairly astute himself: "You have 36 very good reasons to obey." We kept reiterating the number of eggs for what was coming later.
The Magus disguises broken pots as eggs and vice-versa. But it always seemed to me that the kitchen staff at Edinburgh sure broke a lot of pots. I mean a LOT!
I like the lines: "Taking the wee bairns for a walk?" and "I don't think I like Gargoyle eggs." Very menacing.
Princess K burns her wedding dress. She feels she cannot leave because C will follow her to "the ends of the Earth." So the Magus responds: "Then I will take you beyond them." Again. Very romantic moment between them.
Finella joins the troop. The WOMAN SCORNED. She's really fun now. Dangerous. I always laugh when Constantine drinks the brew and collapses so abruptly.
Erin: "The Weird Sisters". My kids are just fascinated with this trio. I wonder if they still will be by the end of this three-parter or if like many fans, they will be disappointed?
They get turned into owls. But the Magus worries about giving up the source of his power. K doesn't care about that.
And Finella and Mary agree to take the book. I love these two. I think they'd make a totally kick-ass team. I doubt it would be commercial enough, but I'd love to do a spin-off show just with these two women. At any rate, there was the plan to include them as recurring characters in TimeDancer.
Tom has to leave his mother and his childhood behind. Now his role as the Guardian is a way for Katharine to make him accept the loss. It is the start of their relationship, though neither knows it. I watch this now, and I can't help thinking of the Anakin & Padma relationship and where that's destined to go.
Back to the present. We see the impressive shores of Avalon. Very cool painting.
Bronx reacts. Guardian: "He's found the eggs..." And the music swells and two gargs and a garg beast appear on the cliff.
Now is that a cliff-hanger or what? What was your reaction?
Erin and Benny wanted "to see ther rest!" I told them they'd have to wait a week and we got a lot of protesting. Just what I was hoping for.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
What year was Hakon born?
When was Bodhe's son, MacBodhe, killed?
Hold on, I'll check.
Some little questions about TimeDancer:
1a-When does Brooklin finds Mary and Finela, in old Scotland?
1b-They timedance together to which year in 20th century?
2-When does Xanatos and Demona first met?
3-How old are Katana, Nashville, Tachi and Fu-dog, rigth after the Timedance?
4-A tricky question: If the Phoenix Gate is out of control, why is it always popping in front of Brooklin?
1a. You mean what year? Late 995 or early 996.
1b. I'm not saying.
2. By 1993.
3. Katana is Biologically 40.
Nash is 19 (bilologically 10).
Tachi is an egg.
4. Why indeed?
How did Gillecomgain become such a good assassin? He was a peasant by birth. What ever happened to his father?
1. Practice, practice, practice.
2. Hee, hee, hee.
What did princess Elena think of the gargoyles at Wyvern?
That's a topic I'd like to explore in stories.
after the Wyvern Massacre, why didn't Hakon and his men just stay at Wyvern? it would've been way easier to defend than his campsite, the gargoyles were destroyed. why not just camp in the castle? and even if he did know that some gargs probably survived, its still easier to defend yourself from in the castle from gargs, isn't it?
The castle was burning.
I think also, frankly, he was spooked.
Was it intentional to make Nick Maza similar to Captain of the Guard since both are described by you in the Garg bible and the 2198 contest as much like a gargoyle as a human can be?
You're taking that too literally.
I was actually trying to connect Nick up to Tom, thematically.
We know by City of Stone part 4, that MacBeth's son Luach is dead, probably even killed by Canmore himself. My question is even though there were circumstances that made them enemies, they were still very good friends when they were young, didn't that make Canmore at least think about not killing his cousin?
They were very good friends when they were young? That's news to me. Did you see how they looked at each other after the Weird Sisters issued their prophesy?
And while they were still young, Luach's dad killed Canmore's. That probably didn't endear the cousins either.
I think you are reading too much into the fact that on one hike, they were having a good time until things got serious.
didn't the various gargoyle clans feel wary or even angry that humans were building their castles and fortresses over garg rookeries for free soldiers? i mean, it seems to me that the humans are like, "we're going to build our castle here, if you want to stay, fine, but you have to help protect our castle." if i were a garg i'd have been angry, Demona and Othello were right, not only were the humans totally asses to them, but they were also using them! why do the old garg clans put up with this?
now, obviously i know that the humans would make the deal of protecting the gargs during the day, but did they just move in or did they ask the gargs first? i'd imagine that most humans generally wouldn't bother to ask "animals" permission. what are your thoughts?
There's no ONE answer to cover every clan. There was a period, a semi-mythical golden age in human/gargoyle relations, when this was popular. I'm sure there were times when gargoyles were presented with little REAL choice, given their vulnerabilities.
If we're talking about Wyvern specifically, there was an alliance formed between Hudson and Malcolm.
Is Hakon gone for good?
Except in flashback, yes.
um, this is a long shot but did costintine pass his crown to Duncan? Was he is father? if not what were the circumstances of the crown getting from on to the other
Time and history.
Constantine lost his crown to Kenneth III, the nephew of Kenneth II. Kenneth III lost his crown to Maol Chalvim, whom we met briefly in "Avalon, Part One". Duncan and Macbeth were both grandsons of that Maol Chalvim.
given that Mary (Tom's mother) will do some time-dancing with Brooklyn and Tom has had a long life on Avalon, have they or will they ever be reunited?
That would be telling.
What did the Archmage do to get charged with attempted treason?
More questions on Hudson's mate...you gonna start hating me soon
1.) Could she read?
2.) What were her feelings on how Demona treated Hudson? Or was she even alive when Demona started bashing him?
3.) Did she use weapons/shields/armour as Hudson' does?
Thanks for answering what ya can or want to :)
1. I tend to doubt it, but I haven't given it much thought.
2. No comment.
i was wondering some things about Demona's second from "City of Stone" the rust-colored garg with the breastplate:
1. you've said before that the almost identical garg on Avalon is his son, so he was part of the Wyvern clan until it split, right? were all the new gargs in "City of Stone" from that clan?
2. was he from Goliath and Demona's generation or an older one? was he Demona's rookery brother?
3. you hadn't thought of a behind the screen name for him have you? if so, do tell...
4. did he ever have a romantic interest in Demona?
5. did he survive Canmore's massacre of Demona's clan?
6. would we ever see him developed more in one of the spin-offs? Dark Ages maybe?
2. Probably not.
3. He had no name.
4. Maybe briefly. But I don't think that lasted.
I was wondering what the translation of Gillecomgain's name would be.. Do you know?
No. Is there a translation?
About Hudson's mate...
1.) Was she dead before the Wyvern Massacre in 994 A.D.?
2.) Was she alive when Broadway hatched?
3.) Did she die due to battle or of old age?
4.) Since Hudson's accent is more apparent then any other clanner, might her accent been just as strong?
3. Not old age.
4. Probably. I'd have to think about it.
When they began designing the characters from 994 A.D. do you know of what books they used to find out the clothing of the first century? I am looking myself as well, but maybe a book the creators used themselves would be wonderful. Thanks Greg!
I don't know. Sorry.
I just rewatched "Vendettas", and yup, a few questions came to mind:
1) While battling Wolf/Hakon, I noticed that Hudson is pretty proficient with his sword, yet you said that he had just happened to pick up the weapon during the battle with the Vikings. Had he actually had some sword training beforehand, or did he learn how to use one through trial and error?
2) While Hakon was possessing Wolf, he told him that if he destroyed the axe, Hakon would lose his only link to the Earth plane and disappear. However, in "Possession", Desdemona and Othello lamented over the fact that if they destroyed the Coldstone body, they would be trapped in Broadway and Angela forever. You've said before that the relationship that Hakon has with the axe is similar to that of the Coldtrio and their mechanical bodies. a) So if what the Coldtrio said about possessing hosts also applies to Hakon, would he in fact have been able to remain permanently in Wolf's body if the latter had destroyed the axe while he was still being possessed? b) Puck had said that soul transferance was tricky, and that the host had to be willing to be possessed. So how was Hakon able to take over Wolf? Wolf didn't seem to happy about it when he regained consciousness, so I don't think he would have been willing. c) Why did Hakon need to worry about Wolf destroying the axe? Couldn't he have taken complete possession of Wolf once he managed to get inside him and prevented him from doing the weapon any harm?
1. Maybe a bit of both.
2. a. Different deal, basically.
b. They were sympatico. Ancestor/descendent with a common hatred of Goliath.
c. Obvioulsy, he couldn't. Not when Wolf was conscious.
in "Shadows of the Past", did the stone clan that Hakon and the Captain created each look like actual gargoyles that died in the massacre, as in Goliath would recognize them individually?
Theoretically. The Captain knew them all personally.
in response to my question about England getting rid of their gargoyles you said, "England did a worse job than most." do you mean cuz there are still gargoyles in England a thousand years later or was there another reason you said this?
on a related note, when Bodhe said that the English rid their lands of gargoyles long ago... how long ago? obviously there was at least a clan or two around during King Arthur's reign and i can't see him allowing massacres and such. oh, and since we know of the London clan i realize that the English HAVN'T rid their lands completly of gargoyles, but when were the bulk of them banished/killed/whatever?
What other reason did you have in mind?
As for Bodhe, he wasn't exactly an authority. The English thought that their country was gargoyle free by Macbeth's time. It wasn't. What gargs there were left had just gone into hiding by that time.
Something that I've occasionally wondered about the Captain of the Guard. In the series, he's only known by his title, and his real name is never mentioned. Was that deliberate, in light of his choosing to identify himself with the gargoyles (who at that time didn't have personal names) instead of with the humans?
Yeah, that would be great and thematic. But I don't think we thought that out. Maybe Michael did.
since Cuchalin had a garg beast, is it safe to presume that there was once at least one garg clan in Ireland?
if so, what was this clans relationship to the feud between Cuchalin and the Banche if any? was the clan not involved, Cuchalin's allies, etc....
Yes, at one point there was an Irish garg clan. No more details are currently forthcoming.
Is the Magus actually dead? Couldn't the magic in the hollow cave heal him like it healed King Arthur?
Dead as far as I'm concerned. (And that ain't what healed Arthur.)
My favorite smart ass responses.
<<Demona Taina writes...
1. Where did Demona get those gargoyles from in "City Of Stone"?
Which was funny enough when I read it as Walmart, but then I realized just what a terrible pun it is...
Y'know, it's amazing how many of my questions seem to end up in the Smart Ass Responses category.
It's also amazing how many of my responses end up in that category. I wonder why that is? >>
I haven't asked you about the Magus' given name lately, have I?
I have nothing funny to say.
1) When the Magus died, why didn't Goliath try and use the Weird Sisters to resurrect him? Obviously, they had the power to keep MacBeth and Demona's lifeforce going on forever, it seems likely that they could also restore life.
2) Was the Katherine the Magus' only love? By that I mean did he ever have any other serious romantic relations or "crushes" on, and if so, with whom?
3) What was the Magus' real name? I assume he had another name and that his mother did not name him a word that's synomous with sorceror at birth.
1. I don't agree with your premise. Mac and D had the power. Not the Sisters. They just linked them.
2. Katharine was it.
3. He wasn't born with the name Magus, you are correct about that.
Here's an answer to the question that you asked about who was Duncan's wife. According to Mike Ashley's "Mammoth Book of British Kings and Queens", her name was Sybilla, and she was either the daughter or the sister (written accounts apparently clash on this one) of Earl Siward of Northumbria (who was, in actual history - and Shakespeare's play - the leader of the English army that helped Canmore invade Scotland and overthrow Macbeth; no doubt he was one of the relatives that took Canmore in after Macbeth banished him to England in 1040).
Cool. Any dates on her?
i think Bodhe was an idiot. the more i think about it, the more i think how stupid his idea to sell out the gargoyles to the English was! first of all, how does he know if it'll work? what keeps the English from continueing the attack esspecially now that Scotland has lost most of its best defenses, the gargoyles. whats worse is the gargoyles under Demona's control would probably become a huge threat to Moray and Scotland and without the gargs Scotland would fall to the English fast, as it kinda did to Duncan.
i have two questions:
1. why did Bodhe come up with this stupid idea? he had to see that the potential damage greatly outweighed all, if any, advantages.
2. what was Bodhe's plan to get rid of the gargs? destroy them? capture and give them to the English? banish them?
1. Bodhe was more a coward than an idiot. But whatever.
2. I don't think he ever thought that far ahead.
Do you know what people in Ireland and Scotland wore in the tenth centry or during midevil times? Because I am wanting some idea of what they look like for a book I am writing.
No, I don't know with enough accuracy to allow me to tell you in a few paragraphs here. I suggest you do some research.
City Of Stone Part Three
Ok, so Elisa is facing in the wrong direction, oh well. Every masterpiece has at least one flaw or two.
I like when Owen becomes flesh again, the animation is beautiful as he quickly examines the phone and even more quickly regains his composure. "Good morning". I also like Xanatos's "then we'll just have to set the sky ablaze" line. It's the delivery by Jonathan Frakes, as well as the animation, which shows the confidence Xanatos has. He isn't even concerned over whether or not he can find away. I don't know if that's arrogance or what, but it's a great moment.
The scene with Travis Marshal and that woman is great. I just love the way Travis reacts to her statement about never watching television. She's probably one of those people who blames television for everything that has gone wrong in society.
Flashback to Scotland 1040…
The scene between Macbeth and Duncan is great. Duncan especially seems to believe that Macbeth is not disloyal when Mac saves his life. It's sad though, because it seemed like Duncan was willing to bury whatever grudge he bore Macbeth right then and there.
Of course, Duncan is still every bit the jerk that he's always been, about to destroy several sleeping Gargoyles like that for no real reason, but what else can be expected from one who took the mask of the Hunter. Macbeth of course begs him to spare them and any thanks Duncan has for Macbeth seems to go out the window. I wonder what led to his hatred of Gargoyles.
The scene with the Weird Sisters is great, nice to see an element from Shakespeare's play in the story. The scene was animated beautifully as well. Duncan again disgusts me. While it would be easy to blame the Sisters for Duncan's later actions, I think that is letting him off too easy. Your daughter pegged Duncan perfectly, paranoid and stupid.
Of course we have another slaughter of sleeping Gargoyles. Duncan is a complete coward, to slaughter Gargoyles that have done nothing to him. I liked Demona's "this cave will be your tomb" line. Kind of wish it were. I like Demona's little speech as the escape from the cave, well written, poetic sounding, and Marina did a great job with the vocals as always.
The scene with Macbeth and Bodhe is very well done. I often don't know what to make of Bodhe, he's not a bad person, he's just a coward, but he means well. Macbeth's good bye to Gruoch and Luach is very touching, especially his "the journey will be brief" line. Macbeth is as noble a character as any other.
Demona and Macbeth have another great scene together. They play off each other so well, as if they were destined to fight side by side. I don't blame Demona for being extremely hesitant. But at least she recognizes that Macbeth is an exception to her rule by not killing him, which says a lot for her.
Enter the Weird Sisters. This is another beautiful scene. The spell they placed on Mac & D was extremely well animated, I figured out what the spell mostly did. I knew this was where they became immortal, it was obvious. Though I forgot those brief scenes in Part 2 where they felt each other's pain. It was also great to see Macbeth learn the truth about his father's murder.
I thought Gruoch's "I hope you have not made a bad bargain" line was pretty clear. It would have been nice to see her run a finger through his hair as you wanted, but the message wasn't lost. Wasn't lost at all. Also, Demona looks good as she enters Macbeth's tent. Another nice moment between Macbeth and Gruoch, made even nicer by Demona eavesdropping. It was a very romantic scene, and I could easily tell she was thinking about herself and Goliath… and as you said, with herself in Macbeth's place. Demona wore the pants in that relationship… so to speak ;)
The battle is very nicely done. Makes me think of "Braveheart". I especially liked when the Gargoyles showed up and helped Clan Moray deal with Duncan's troops. Demona herself was magnificent there. I cracked a smile at Macbeth's "you fight like a demon line", I knew it was only a matter of time now till she was named. He was correct to. Demona is definitely someone I'd want to take into battle to fight at my side.
At last it was time for the confrontation I was waiting to see. Macbeth and Duncan's fight was also great. I clapped when Demona grabbed MacDuff and bashed him into the mountainside. I always assumed she killed him there, I don't remember him being in part 4. I'll check when I get to it.
The death of Duncan was well done, I know you couldn't show Macbeth run him through, but burning like that seemed worse, I hope it took him a while to die. As you can tell, I hate him.
Demona standing on that cliff with Macbeth as they were cheered was another nice moment. She seemed glad to be at Macbeth's side there. Too bad it didn't last.
Bodhe advising Macbeth to slay Canmore was despicable at best, but he was right about him eventually being trouble. Macbeth had to be aware that banishing him to England was a bad idea as well. There was no easy way to handle that situation either. Who was it that said, "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions."? Demona showed commendable restraint in not killing him, for I am sure if she did kill him, she would not have been reprimanded. But I wonder, today would she kill a child? We know she's perfectly willing, able and eager to kill. But would she kill a child?
The coronation scene was perfect. Macbeth wanted to deliver a golden age between human and gargoyle, meant it, and I'm sure was successful for the next seventeen years. I knew Macbeth was going to name her here, and was glad Demona liked her name… I'm rather fond of it as well. The crowd cheering her nice, it seemed like she was ready to drop her grudge against humanity once and for all. Though I'm surprised we didn't see Macbeth crown Gruoch queen. Was she ever even crowned queen?
Nice touch throwing the Sisters into the police station. I liked how they were everywhere.
The Elisa-Owen scene was fun, reminded me of when Owen wouldn't let her into the building back in "The Edge". Nice position they were frozen in.
The scene between the Gargoyles and Xanatos is also very good. X's plan makes sense and seems quite logical. The distrust on Goliath's face is priceless, but who can blame him for not trusting Xanatos. I thought it was obvious that Demona was standing behind the tapestry I have to say. I also like Goliath's concern for Elisa as they depart the castle.
Demona is magnificent as she steps out into the Great Hall mace in hand. There's just a certain air about her, the confidence, the power she's radiating. Of course, I find it hard to believe that there are secrets that Xanatos doesn't know about the castle considering he took it apart and rebuilt it piece by piece, but hey, I don't mind.
The cliffhanger is a very good one, and left me extremely excited for the conclusion of this great multi-parter.
End Part Three
Yeah, Gruouch was Queen.
when the Magus died on the bed of the Sleeping King, did they just leave him there? i can't imagine they would unless there was some sort of magic there that would keep the Magus from decomposing, which would be kinda gross. so if they left him there, will he decompose or not?
It seemed a fitting resting place. And crypts aren't that unusual. But I'm guessing they sealed off the Hill.
What language is the Grimorum written in? I imagine the spells are in Latin, but what language did the Magus use to recount the story of the gargoyles?
Most (but not all) of the Grimorum is in Latin. The Magus used Latin as well, which was in those days the language of scholars.
City of Stone scenelet>> When Gil crushed the rose, I thought this was to tel the audience that, the scars on his face did more than damage his looks. I thought he had lost his sense of smell too. In my mind this provided even greater cause for him to grow more and more embittered against Demona. I don't think this is what you were intending though, not anymore.
Hmmm. Interesting. Maybe I wasn't intending it. But maybe it's still true. Hmmm.
In Awakening Part one, the Vikings or at least Hakon, are convinced that the gargoyles are just stone statues. This suggests that this is the first time Hakon has attacked Castle Wyvern. But when Goliath awakens he says something like, "I grow tired of these attacks." That means that the attack was only a middle of a series of attacks by the Vikings. Was the battle at the beggining of Awakening part one, the vikings first battle with Castle Wyvern. Or had another party of Vikings been attacking Wyvern and had moved on, leaving Hakon's army in charge of that area.
Well, Hakon had never been there before. But you're quoting something that Goliath said in the MIDDLE of the battle. So he may have been talking about the fact that Hakon's crowd was still fighting. Or he may have been refering to the fact that Wyvern's isolated location often made them targets of attack. From other Vikings, etc.
1.What year did Iago decieve Othello about Desdemona and Goliath?
2.When were Luach, Canmore and Gillecomgain born?
3.For that matter have you decided what's the exact date of Elisa's birth?
All dates are tentative, at least until I finish my current reworking of the Timeline. But this is as up-to-date as I have it. (You caught me in the right office today.)
2. Gillecomgain was born in 982.
1. Iago deceived Othello in 993.
2. Canmore was born in 1031.
2. Luach was born in 1033.
3. Elisa was born in 1968. I haven't given her a specific birthdate at this time.
By the way, if anyone sees a reason why these dates (or any others I might post) don't make sense, don't hesitate to let me know.
Not that you would.
in "Awakening" right before Goliath asks to have the sleep spell put on him, he asks the Princess to take care of the eggs. why was she thinking that Goliath was asking her this? why wasn't she confused thinking that Goliath could do a better job of raising the Hatchlings than her? did she figure that Goliath was going to ask for the sleep spell? she seemed surprised when he asked. i know she put her heart into raising these children and has been a great mother for them but i was really surprised that she wasn't scared to death when Goliath asked her this life-long favor, i would have been, what a responsibility!
I'm not saying she wasn't intimidated, but she felt she could not deny him anything, under the circumstances.
by "Ill met by Midnight" are Gabriel and Opheila allready chosen mates or do they decide that later? seeing as how Tom and Katherine are human and raised the gargs as brothers and sisters in a human fashion what is T and K's reaction to the coupling of the eggs? if i am wrong in how they were raised than correct me, please, but neither Tom nor Katherine was very knowledgable in garg customs, were they? did they raise the gargs in a garg way as best they could or just as they would human children and garg instincts took over for the rest?
Moonlight, not midnight.
You're mostly wrong. I think Tom and Katharine and the Magus realized that these eggs represented an entire generation, not just a bunch of siblings. Relationships developed. Some fraternal, others romantic. The humans attempted to mimic gargoyle customs, which the Magus had some information on.
And Gabe and Ophelia were certainly romantically involved by Ill Met.
in "Awakenings, part 1" when Tom first comes up to the trio and they have that talk about calling each other friend (by the way, this is one of my fav scenes in the series) and then the gargs scare the humans and everything, what was Tom thinking? i know he really liked the gargs and wanted to be their friends but if these "monsters" than turned around and purposely frightned my mother, i'd be pretty upset. i don't know Tom's background but i'm sure that he's had a rough life. he's a refugee, so he has lost his home, we never see his father so i assume given the time period that he is dead and now these creatures are threatening his mom! Tom is a smart kid not to follow so many of his role models, including his mother, into believing that the gargs are demons, etc. and even after this he still calls the gargs his friends. what are your thoughts of young Tom and this incident?
I think Tom saw the whole thing. Saw that the gargs were insulted and hurt. Saw that they were fooling around and then got punished for it. Tom loves his Mom, but he thought she was wrong.
Why did you decide to change Tom's name from Robby to it's present form?
I didn't. One of our writers, probably Michael Reaves changed the name. I never knew why, but it seemed petty to insist on changing it back.