A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Hi big fan of the series gargoyles thank you so much for your part in creating the show. My question is during the creation of the gargoyles were did the ideas of there look come form for instance London clans animal features wyvern clans beaks horns human faces and so on also Hm which were your favorite clan artwork my personal favorite wyven/avalon clan
I don't really play favorites. They're all my children.
The idea that the London clan would be modeled (loosely) after heraldic animals was mine. Not the execution, of course. Credit for that goes mostly to our lead character designer Greg Guler.
The idea for Zafiro being serpentine was also mine. We just looked to Aztec, Olmec & Mayan art for inspiration.
One of my favorite clans in the Garg universe is the Mayan clan, especially because of the magic pendants. Now I've always been one of those "magic comes with a price" believers, and I loved it when you said the consequence of wearing the pendant was that they age at a Human rate.
But then I was perusing through the archives recently and discovered that you have since changed your mind on that, because doing the math was just too hard to calculate.
But don't Gargs only age at twice the rate of Humans? Wouldn't you only have to divide everything by two?
And as far as I can see it would inly be the breeding cycle that would get a little confusing, but it could still work. Assuming that they pendants arent given to a successor untill they reach maturity...a female pendant wearer would lay her first egg alongside her peers, then lay her second egg the same year the first one hatches, and finally lay her third egg when her peers are laying their second.
Now the second egg would hatch in the "off season"...but only if they even laid that egg. I would think that since a Gargoyle's fertility is attuned with the Earth's cycle, that only the two cycles that match up with the others could even result in an egg.
Anyway, it's past 3 am so my math could be off, but I think it's solid.
I just can't address this now. (Because the math is overwhelming, and my head's just not there at this time. Too full of other projects.) Let's leave it as an open question, until I get back to writing Gargoyles, someday.
I'm in a Mayan/Mesoamerican Civilization class right now, and I couldn't help but thinking about the Mayan Clan in Gargoyles.
What would you consider the relationship between the Classic Mayans and the Mayan clan; did they believe that the Gargoyles came from the same origins as they did (such as Maize)? 2. Did the Mayan clan do anything to fend off the Spanish Conquest or was there a massacre/population decrease similar to that at Castle Wyvern? 2b. Did the Spanish Conquistadores encounter the Guatemalan clan? 3. Are the Guatemalan Clan literate in Mayan writing? 4. Were there other Gargoyle clans in Mesoamerica in the distant past protecting other civilizations, such as Teotihuacan and the Aztecs?
Hey, Phil. I'm afraid most of these questions are spoilers, but if I'm being perfectly honest, I also don't know all the answers yet. Of course, if and when the time came, I would do a ton of research, and these are among the questions I would be asking myself.
When you were creating the other clans how did you decide which locations would have still have Gargoyle Clans over the others?
Some of it was about logic (like the clan on New Olympus). Some about story ideas we had (like M.I.A.). Some about a desire for geographic distribution (like the Mayan clan in Guatemala). Sometimes it just felt right, like the notion that there would eventually be a clan in Paris at Notre Dame, site of some of the most famous Gargoyles in the world. Sometimes it was as silly as ... hey, they're animating the series in Japan and Korea, so let's put clans there. At some point later on, the ideas became more fixed and were explored (at least in my head) in much more detail.
For the Mayan Clan, those who wear the magical prevention-turn-to-stone pendants, how does sleep work for them, or is it no longer needed? Also, to follow this how do they contain their gargoyle strength with out stone sleep?
See the archives.
I have a question about the Mayan Clan and their pendants, I was looking at some recent This Day entries and found myself wondering about something.
From This Day in Gargoyles Universe History:
<<After sundown, the travelers depart. But they bring Jade and Turquesa along to transplant samples of the rain forest flora in Avalon. They arrive on the mystic island at dawn and Goliath, Angela and Bronx sleep through the Avalonian day. Elisa introduces Jade and Turquesa to Princess Katharine and the Guardian, and all spend the day scouting Avalon for a good location for the rain forest transplants.>>
I'm a little unclear on what is described here. Does it mean that Jade and Turquesa also spent the day awake? That they brought the pendants onto the island?
Seems they did. Hmmmm.... It's only canon-in-training, so I have to decide if I made a mistake there, or if there's an explanation. Sounds like a mistake though, doesn't it?
This is just a comment to K9...
I think you are thinking of some Amazonian Native Americans. The Mayans and other people in Mesoamerica certainly wore clothes pre-contact.
Zafiro's not naked either. He's very modest about his shoulders.
Hi Greg. ^_^ First off, I want to thank you for your incredible patience and willingness to deal with us and get Gargoyles in some form back into circulation. I think you're doing a great job.
If you could clarify something for me, I'd very much appreciate it. I'm not trying to catch you out or nitpick, I'm just kind of confused about one aspect of the Mayan clan's pendants: how they affect the wearers' aging process.
In September 2000, you stated that the cost of wearing a pendant was that the gargoyle aged at the human rate. A year later, you said that the pendant compensated, but I'm not quite sure what that means. The only other reference I can find states that the pendants partially compensate the wearers for their lack of sleep. Would you be willing to shed a little more light on this?
If the gargoyles do age faster, does that speed up their breeding cycles too, or is that something else the pendants compensate for? I know that in the current situation it's not as much of an issue, but I also know that the four wearers aren't always each other's mates.
Anything you can tell me would be fantastic, but if you'd rather clear it up in the comics, that's fine too. I can wait. ;P
I think the math is just too hard -- or I'm too lazy -- to have them age at human rates. And we've seen many occasions when magical talismans (or spells) compensate. (How's that for honesty?) So I'd say they still age (and breed) at regular gargoyle rates.
How could Zafiro and Obsidiana mate, anatomically there completely different?
You mean one's a guy and one's a gal?
How is it that the Manhatten, Guatamalen, and London clans have flourished by 2198? 5 individuals (with only one female) is hardly enough for a proper breeding pool... let alone 2 males and one female.
The Mayan Clan has a rookery full of eggs.
The London Clan -- well, let's just say you've ONLY seen three of its members. There are many more on their estate.
The Manhattan Clan... stay tuned.
I searched through archives and didn't seem to find this question answered anywhere. A world-wide vote was recently held for nominations for a new set of 7 Wonders of the World. Chichén Itzá happenned to win. I am wondering if Chichén Itzá in Mexico was an inspiration for the pyramid shown in "The Green".
To some extent, yes.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Obsidiana comes to the United States.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
A crisis brings together representatives of four clans.
Lexington continues his journey.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Broadway and Lex defeat Hyena and take custody of the Amulet, leaving Hyena for the cops. And in Guatemala, the gargoyles and Elisa battle Jackal. At sunrise, Jackal briefly believes he has the upper hand when Obsidiana turns to stone. But in reality, she had merely lost her pendant. Bronx recovers it, and he, Zafiro, Jade and Turquesa dispatch Jackal. As a result, Vogel decides to cancel Cyberbiotics' rain forest operation. After sundown, the travelers depart. But they bring Jade and Turquesa along to transplant samples of the rain forest flora in Avalon. They arrive on the mystic island at dawn and Goliath, Angela and Bronx sleep through the Avalonian day. Elisa introduces Jade and Turquesa to Princess Katharine and the Guardian, and all spend the day scouting Avalon for a good location for the rain forest transplants.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
At sunrise, Goliath, Angela and Bronx turn to stone. But the Mayan gargoyles wear magic pendants that allow them to remain flesh, thanks to a missing Mayan Sun Amulet. During the day, Elisa watches Zafiro scare farmers away from the forest. Meanwhile, Hyena heads for New York in order to break into a museum and destroy the Sun Amulet. She's spotted by Broadway and Lexington.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx leave Avalon and arrive in the rain forests of Guatemala. There they encounter Zafiro, Obsidiana, Jade and Turquesa, the last surviving gargoyles of the Mayan Clan. Together, they fight off an incursion against the rain forest by Jackal, Hyena and loggers working for Cyberbiotics, under the management of Preston Vogel.
This is less serious than my last post.
It had occured to me the other day while watching the Green that the Guatamalan clan and all the other clans take names. Some of them such as the Griff's clan have had contact for some time with humans, but what's Zafiro excuse. Is it only a Wyvern Clan tradition, not a gargoyle tradition across cultures, to remain nameless?
Only the four pendant wearers had names. Unfortunately, only the four pendant wearers were still alive.
the mayan's really deal with gay marriges?
Human or gargoyle?
Where is ChacIxChel in Guatemala? Is it a real place? The reason I ask is because I cannot find any info on the place.
Time to ramble...
Chapter LI: "The Green"
Story Editor: Cary Bates
Writer: Cary Bates
Directors: Kazuo Terada, Takamitsu Kawamura
Use a voice actor. Pay a voice actor. That's the rule, and it's a good one. What that means practically is that even the guy who says, "Previously on Gargoyles" needs to be paid for that episode. Or rather, we won't use someone to say "Previously on Gargoyles" unless that actor is already appearing in the episode, because we don't want to pay someone JUST to say "Previously on Gargoyles..." Now, if you know that one fact, then when you hear our good friend Thom Adcox saying "Previously on Gargoyles" at the beginning of the episode, then it's a pretty safe bet that Lexington is going to appear... and yet, as the episode begins, it seems, at least by this time, to be a fairly standard World Tour Adventure: Goliath, Elisa, Angela & Bronx in the exotic locale of the week. So where in the world (since it ain't gonna be Guatemala) is Lexington going to pop in?
The origins of this episode ("The + [one word title]" attributable to me) come from two semi-competing desires. 1) I wanted to make sure we hit every continent, including South America on the World Tour. And I believed that the stunning visual image of Quetzacoatl, the Flying Serpent was another great inspiration for a Gargoyle character. 2) Frank felt strongly that we had not seen enough of Hudson & the Trio during the Tour. I'll admit, as I have before, that I underestimated their popularity and probably overestimated -- at least at the time -- the interest in our little odyssey 'round the world. But even then, I could see Frank's point. I didn't want to not do our Mayan adventure, so Cary & I constructed a story that would give us an interesting experience in the Green, but would also bring us back to the deep purples of Lex & Broadway's Manhattan.
IT'S ALL IN THE DELIVERY
Some great lines in this one, mostly from Hyena & Jackal:
"Hey, he's a fan."
"Have I mentioned how much I hate Gargoyles."
"They get no mercy." (This right before H&J get slammed by a pretty darn impressive throw of a bulldozer shovel.)
"Bowling for Gargoyles!" (To which my daughter Erin responded with: "That was disturbing." I found it interesting that in all the gonzo stuff in this episode, the thing she found most disturbing was Hyena rolling up into a ball. I mean is that really as disturbing as Jackal's dream of "resculpting" Goliath's head?!!)
"If a tree falls in the forest... do I get to hear it scream?"
Zafiro had a good line too: "There's no such thing as a few trees."
And Goliath: "What's left of their world is rapidly dwindling."
And Broadway: "Leave our mothers out of this." (Broadway always thinks in clan-parentage mode. My son Benny wondered if they even knew whom their mothers were. Of course, they did. Not biologically, but they knew which females gargoyles were their rookery mothers. All gone now.)
And Morgan (to an unconscious Hyena): "You have the right to remain silent."
"WHAT IS THE GREEN?"
My kids wanted to know.
First off it's hot. Elisa takes off her jacket, revealing her (in this instance) short-sleeve black t-shirt. Even this slight clothing change for her comes off as exciting to me.
Second, it's full of potential herbal medicines, admirably demonstrated by Obsidiana.
Third, it's got Obsidiana. And Turquesa and Jade and the amazingly designed Zafiro. And the revelation, that long ago, Gargoyles were everywhere in the world. In hindsight, I wish that all four characters had had the serpentine lower body. Though I'm glad that only Zafiro had the feathered wings and snake-like head. There's a great Mayan/Aztec flavor to all four gargs. And you wouldn't believe the trouble we had figuring out their names. Now they seem so right. But we went through many permutations, before figuring them out. I think at one point, Zafiro was named Jose.
Fourth, it's got that cool pyramid.
Fifth, it's got amulets which defy the basic Day/stone dynamic. We had some fun with that. And my son Benny liked seeing them alive in the morning. It was different.
Sixth, what didn't get mentioned was Oxygen. I had a line in there which talked about the dilemma of losing the rain forest on the basic level of how much of our oxygen it produces. I felt that was a VERY important message. Frank felt it was preachy. I lost that battle, or ceded it or something. But the line's not in there.
FOR A CHANGE OF PACE
Elisa is accepted fairly easily by the Mayan Clan. Obsidiana takes a particular shine to her. Despite having undergone a Wyvernesque massacre, none of the Mayan gargs have a knee-jerk negative reaction to humans. And certainly nothing on the level of what Elisa had just experienced in New Olympus.
DID YOU NOTICE THE HOMAGE?
To THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN & THE BIONIC WOMAN? I think we did some cool things with Hyena's bionic ear and Jackal's seven-figure eye.
Also, Jackal has a built in hair dryer?
And there's a moment in the museum when Hyena activates her rear jetpacks, when both my kids and my wife thought that she had "rocket-boobies". The shot switches from front to back, and her jets emerge from bionic shoulder blades. But if you miss the camera-angle switch, it can certainly look briefly as if her breasts have become rocket powered. Top that Lyndsey Wagner!
Heck, Jackal even has a built-in Bionic wrist-watch. For some reason, I find that particularly hilarious. ("And he tells time...!")
Just a taste of him here. He's largely a place-holder. A bad employer of our two bad villains. But we tried to make even this little bit of Vogel interesting. He's still somewhat morally-challenged. And he reveals that he has gained more responsibility as Renard's affliction has worsened.
This episode is, by the way, loaded with references to OTHER World Tour episodes. That's supposed to be a no-no. We couldn't guarantee that they would all air in order within the World Tour Tier, i.e. between the AVALON Three-Parter and the GATHERING Two-Parter. But I guess, we had some confidence that "The Green" would air after "Golem", after "Grief", etc.
THE GOLIATH & ELISA FANCLUB
I love how they disagree with each other without losing respect or concern for each other. It's so DAMN mature.
WE TRASH ANOTHER LANDMARK
Yep, we're knocking down and burning down the rain forest right & left (in an attempt to save it by influencing public opinion, no less). But we also trash another museum. I was SO cavalier about it at the time, but when I see that Mammoth skeleton go down now, I cringe.
Cool amulet though. It rolls. It frisbees with a great sound effect. Since we had the NYC plot ending -- before the Guat-plot ended -- with Hyena's defeat, we wanted to maintain some suspense. So we have Broadway and Lex come to the incorrect but believable conclusion that the Amulet must be destroyed. Fortunately, they decided to confiscate it instead. And, yes, it survives the destruction of the Clock Tower in Hunter's Moon. Then back in Guatemala, we have Obsidiana lose her amulet so that we could see her in stone and wonder if Broadway had destroyed it so that all four Mayan gargs would be sleeping.
Speaking of Hyena's defeat, she goes down after a head injury. In today's world of S&P there's no way we would be allowed to give her that head injury in the first place.
WHAT IS THE GREEN PART TWO
Seventh, I hope, without getting TOO preachy, it managed to teach a lesson. Erin thought so. Which is perhaps good enough for me.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Are the pendanat wearers in The Green a cross section of gargoyles in the guatemala clan or were there other weird looking gargoyles there before the massacre?
Were there gargoyle beasts in the Guatemala clan?
I'm not sure how you're defining "weird looking". I assume you mean Zafiro and his snake-like lower body. In which case, yes, there were others like Zafiro.
There were also gargoyle beasts.
What happened to Turkesa and Jade? Do they still live on Avalon?
Turquesa & Jade did/will eventually return to the rain forest.
Almost every gargoyle clan we've meet in the show or that you've us about protects something. The Guatemalan clan protects the rain forest. The Loch Ness clan protects the Loch Ness Monster, the Manhattan, London and Ishimura clan naturally protects New York City, London and Ishimura respectively. And the Avalon clan protects Avalon while the Labyrinth clan presently protect the homeless of New York.
1. So what does the New Olympus clan protect? Mount Thanatos? The whole of New Olympus? Or have they abandoned their duty much like the London clan when they lost Griff(since you did say they were isolationists)?
2.What does the Pukhan and Xanadu clans protect?
3.What exactly do New Camelot and New Wyvern clans protect?
4.What abou the Queen Florence Island Clan(after they've been freed from their stasis)?
5.What about the Notre Dame Clan?
1. I think they have become too insular. It's something I would have made an issue of, given the chance.
2. Pukhan Clan is more interested in protecting their concept of justice. Xanadu Clan protects the endangered Gargoyle Beast species.
3. New Wyvern is very traditionalist. So they protect Wyvern and it's surroundings. By contrast, New Camelot is very internationalist.
4 & 5. Haven't gotten that far in my thinking yet, but at the least they'll protect the Island and Paris, respectively.
If you don't have your notes about the Guatamela clan handy, you might want to pull them out.
1)You listed the location of Guatamela clan as Chacixchel, Guatamela, but I can't find that location on a map. So can you specify the coordinates (so many degrees west by so many degrees north) of that location?
2)Was there a theme to the places where Jade and Turquesa visited on their world tour which lead to their return to Guatamela? If so, can you tell us what it is?
2. A theme? I don't know. I'm not sure I know ALL the places they went. I just have a couple of stories in mind.
Here's a quote:
have jade and turquesa returned to guatemala from avalon yet? did they go on adventures wherever avalon sent them?
So here's my follow-up questions:
1)when did Jade and Turquesa make it back to Guatamela?
2)how hard was it to get those transplanted plants from Guatamela to grow on Avalon?
1. Not saying.
2. Not very.