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"Awakening, Part One"
My kids and I have started watching the 66 chapters of Gargoyles from start to finish, so I thought I'd give a shot at rambling on each episode as we view them.
So starting at the beginning...
Random thoughts:
In the original script, there was a bit that came right after Princess Katharine reprimands the Captain for inviting the Gargoyles into the Great Hall. She says something to the effect of: "To allow beasts in the dining hall..." Right then, we were supposed to cut to a shot of one of those hounds that you can see milling about in the initial establing shot. The hound was supposed to grab a chunk of meat off of one of the nobles' plates. This would further establish Katharine's hypocracy, but also embarrass her further, lending believability to the things she says and does thereafter. I recall that the scenelet got animated, but not well. Frank refused to include it in the final cut. He may have been right, given what we had to work with. But I still miss the moment I envisioned in my head.
Katharine and the Magus are so nasty in this episode. Boy, did they go through some changes.
I'm also struck by just how much the Trio grew from this first appearance. They're kinda medieval ninja turtles here. But they show potential. I still love their exchange with Tom as he tries to get names out of them and they are baffled as to why names would be important.
I do wish we could have seen more Gargoyles flying around. (It really would have been nice to catch a glimpse of the Coldtrio, but frankly, they hadn't been designed yet. We knew they were coming, but we didn't have time to design them before they were necessary.) But it would have been great to see more beasts, more females. More young and old. But I guess we did all right.
The cliffhangers are interesting too. In both, the threat is the Gargoyles themselves. Princess Katharine says something nasty about gargoyles, just as Goliath enters the Hall. He growls, clearly having heard her statement. And we go to commercial... I could never have gotten away with that by even episode 2. But this early on, we didn't know the gargs well enough to know how they'd react. Clearly they had our sympathy. But would Goliath go berserk? Obviously, not. But that was the tension in that beat. Same thing happens between Acts II & III. The threat seems to be from Brooklyn, Lex and Bronx. Of course, they're bluffing. Annoyed with the humans, they are simply trying to put a scare into them. But the audience doesn't know that yet, so I can get away with the second cliffhanger being a Garg threat as well. Of course, by the end of the episode, we know just how noble they are. And that's a great cliffhanger I think. Goliath roaring to the heavens filled with grief over the death of his "Angel of the Night". 'SCool. (But how many of you really thought she was dead?)
There are also moments that are fairly mundane to us now. Elisa pulling up in her car. Goliath first breaking out of stone. Demona stepping out of the shadows. I'd be curious how all those moments made you guys feel the very first time you saw them, particularly those of you for whom this was in fact the first episode you ever saw.
I invite you to post your comments here on Awakening, Part One.
Todd Jensen writes...
Something else that I've been wondering lately, about the betrayal of Castle Wyvern by the Captain of the Guard and Demona. There was one snag in it (aside from the use of the common enemy as allies in settling an internal dispute - always a Very Bad Idea) that I found myself suddenly noticing. Demona and the Captain's plan was to have the Vikings take away all the humans while the gargoyles were absent (foiled by Goliath deciding to pursue the Vikings with only Hudson), believing that then the gargoyles would have the castle all to themselves. But - did those two *seriously* believe that Goliath would, upon coming home to find that the castle had been sacked and the humans taken prisoner, just say "Well, that's that," and do nothing about it? I certainly can't imagine him just letting the humans be led away by the Vikings and do nothing about it, even if the massacre of the bulk of his clan hadn't taken place.
Greg responds...
I think that was a miscalculation.
But I believe that Demona believed that once the humans were gone -- long gone -- she could convince Goliath not to send the clan. The danger of being more than a night's glide from the castle was too great -- as proven by the Viking's ability to sack the place while they were all away.
I think she and the Captain were, of a measure, kidding themselves. But all that self-delusion is hardly out of character for either of them.
Goliath probably would have sent a small expedition. Himself, Hudson, Coldstone. Left Demona in charge back at the ranch. Anyway, that's my guess. We'll never know.
Joe writes...
what happened in the end with Goliath and Elisa? I missed most of the Goliath C. episodes. Thanks!
Greg responds...
There is no end.
And I had nothing to do with any of the Goliath Chronicle episodes after "The Journey". So I don't attempt to answer questions about those episodes.
Tiffiny Whitney writes...
Okay...I have two questions, but being as they are not on the same topic...you'll get the other question separately. First...it's about the Goliath/Elisa relationship. Throughout the entire series (which I was completely obsessed with before it was cancelled), you could pretty much tell they had something going on (especially when Elisa became a gargoyle). Had the series not been cancelled, would they have acknowledged their feelings for each other and maybe have done something about it? I don't think that violates any of your rules, especially since it wouldn't have any point to suggest an idea because the show is cancelled, but if it does, don't think it does because it isn't. I hope you can answer it! Thanks! :)
Greg responds...
You're last sentence gave me a headache.
And I do want to note that the fact that the series curently isn't in production, doesn't preclude my need for protection from "original ideas" about the show. Because someday, in some form or another, I hope to bring the thing back.
Anyway, on to your question. I feel that Elisa's kiss in HUNTER'S MOON, PART THREE was an acknowledgement of her feelings for Goliath. And I feel Goliath has, on a few occasions, attempted to acknowledge his feelings for her, but that she always stopped him. So I don't think this is a secret anymore.
As for future stories, yes, of course the relationship would have progressed at the same SLOW steady pace.
Catwoman writes...
Dear Greg,
Who was it that named Goliath, and when was he given a name?
Greg responds...
Are you asking about within the world of the show or in our Disney offices?
If the former, I think the answer to that is Prince Malcolm around 971 A.D.
If the latter, I think I named Goliath in 1992 or '93. But I'm not sure.
MONKEYO writes...
Hi! i'm a first time writer and although i searched the archives, i couldn't find this question (hard to believe, i know)
Did you ever plan a romantic reunion between Goliath and Demona? even for a night?
Greg responds...
No.
confused fan writes...
Hi. You did a great job on the gargoyles and I'm sorry it had to be canceled. Anyway my question is where do I find facts about the gargoyles? I mean like Height, Weight,Age, that sort of thing. I found it some places but its always different. For example one place Goliath was 35 another place he was 20. As the creator I thought I'd ask you. Thank you for your time
Greg responds...
Ages I've got. Height and weight, no, sorry. Although you can guestimate height as well as I can by watching the show.
I don't know where you got either 35 or 20 for Goliath's age. In 1996, Goliath was 1058. Biologically he was about 29.
Zeliard writes...
Future Tense is my favorite episode. The first time I saw it, I didn't had time to think of what just happened, something else always arrived! It's great! In the scene where Goliath appeared from cyber-space with Elisa, Goliath said: "Demona... Angela... Brooklyn..." I was suprised that Goliath said Demona! He said her name first!
Greg responds...
Yup.
There's a part of Goliath that will always love Demona. And when he saw her fighting for their daughter on the side of the angels for a change, the old feelings must have welled up. Not enough to make him forget Elisa, but enough so that her "death" hurt.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Hmm... I should have perhaps placed this question within the same post as the previous one...
Will Samson have a mate and/or children in 2158? Moreover will his attitude towards parentage be human-like (like his mother) or will he follow the older gargoyles ideas on the subject?
Greg responds...
Samson will have a fairly obvious romantic interest. Originally, I definitely wanted him to have kids and a dead mate, but now I'm hemming and hawing. Strangely, I don't want him to be too much like Goliath. And I'm afraid the absent wife and kids might push him to far in that direction.
As for his attitude, I think that inevitably it'll be an amalgam of both views. Biological progeny will matter to him somewhat. But hatchlings being raised communally by the clan will still be very important.
Zorlond writes...
Good evening, Greg. My question is something I know you've skirted before, but the question wasn't very specific. Okay, question is:
In The Green (think that's the name), Jackal's imagining the things he's going to do to the Aztec Clan and the Tourists. One of those things is re-carving Goliath's face to resemble Jackal's. If Jackal had actually done that, would Goliath wake up looking like Jackal? Wake up with his own face? Not wake up at all?
Hopefully this specific question isn't a repeat...
Greg responds...
He probably would not have woken up. It probably would have killed him.
Shauntell writes...
Okay, I just have a couple of questions...
1) In "Mark Of The Panther" what sort of things were going through Goliath's mind after his discussion with Diane and as he was approaching Angela?
You had commented that what Diane said made him realize some things, but what other things would he have thought about on that? Would he and Angela have discussed their problem?
2) In, "Eye Of The Storm" what were the reasons for having Goliath done the Eye of Odin? Was he ever to be a sorceror? If not, why have him use the Eye? What was the significance of that episode?
Well... I think that's it for now. Chow!!
Greg responds...
1. That Angela was his daughter by anyone's definition, including his own. In the interest of trying to make her see the difference between gargoyle and human definitions of parenthood, he had neglected to be any kind of father. A lot of this came out of paranoia involving Demona. If Angela gave him special status as her biological father, she might also grant Demona special status too. Which in fact, she did. Though I don't think it harmed anyone.
2. Sorry, but questions on separate topics must be posted separately.
lisa writes...
1.did goliath and co ever tell macbeth or demona of what happened on avalon and if so how did they react?
Greg responds...
My guess is that no one filled Macbeth in. If they had, then Macbeth would have reacted differently to Arthur in "Pendragon". It's possible that Angela told Demona about it during her "Reckoning" incarceration. But then again, maybe she didn't. I'm not sure that Angela would feel any value would come out of bringing that up.
Airwalker writes...
Can you please give us some small tidbit of information on Demona's two great loves?
Greg responds...
Not counting Goliath?
Zeliard writes...
Naming stuff.
1.What is the real name of the Archmage?
2.Who named Goliath?
3.We know Bruno is the leader of the Commando. Do you have names for the rest of the Commandoes?
Greg responds...
1. Don't know.
2. Prince Malcolm.
3. Nope.
Airwalker writes...
Hudson didn't seem as upset as Goliath had been in the World Tour about Angela recognising Demona as her biological mother. Why was that? (I mean I see Hudson as the bastion of old style Gargoyle tradition. So shouldn't his reaction have been stronger than Goliath's had been?)
Greg responds...
When? Are we talking about "The Reckoning"?
Hudson had the time and the distance to be steadier.
Goliath's head is still pretty messed up regarding Demona. It's much more personal. Much more psychologically dangerous.
Hudson can recognize that in Goliath and choose to act as a balancer. Hudson hopefully is more three dimensional than simply being the 'bastion of old Gargoyle tradition'.
Bryan writes...
Dear Greg,
1) where did you get the idea of gargoyles ?
2)What happened to galiaith's brother; will they ever see each other again?
3)Do the gargoyles find out who Mcbeth is?
Greg responds...
1. I've answered this before. Check the archives.
2. If you mean Coldstone, then yes, I think they will.
3. Questions on separate topics need to be submitted on separate posts.
*The Bride of Ringo* writes...
Hi again, I think it was 'OnyxStar' who said it originally but I'd like to agree by saying that you're a good man for doing this and that "Ask Greg" is definately keeping the series alive with the fans.
Anyway, the question is:
When Brooklyn returns from his Time Dancing would he still be Second-in-command for Goliath or would that position have been handed to someone else? (I mean since now Brooklyn would be older than Goliath biologically)
~The B of R
Greg responds...
Brooklyn would still be Goliath's second. From Goliath's PoV, Brooklyn was never gone.
And Brooklyn wouldn't be THAT old. Not as old as Hudson, for example.
OnyxStar writes...
Okay, this is turning into lots of little posts instead of one big one. But anyway, here are the next few:
1. Would Goliath and Elisa's "relationship" ever have become public knowledge? I mean, would someone have figured it out sooner or later and gone to the media with it?
2. If so, how will history remember Elisa Maza, "gargoyle-lover"?
3. Will others have followed in her example by, say, 2158? (not necessarily with a main character or anything, just in general)
4. What does 'protected minority' mean?
Thanks again!
Greg responds...
1. Maybe. Probably. But WAY down the line if at all.
2. Looking back from when?
3. Here and there, but not too often. We want to keep some things unique.
4. It will be a legal term both well-meaning and condescending, both necessary and a stumbling block. Otherwise, I'd say it's fairly self-explanatory.
Demona Taina writes...
Hey, Greg! Umm, sorry for those other mega-posts, I kind of read the ramblings after I posted that. So, here are a few of my questions:
1. About Goliath's hair, well, I don't quite understand it, nor Demona's. How does it stand up like that?
2. How old was Demona when she was really, really old?
3. Could a gargoyle be hatched deformed? You know, like missing a leg or something.
4. Who created Goliath?
5. We know that gargoyles get cleaned during the day, but what about Elisa? How did she manage to survive in the skiff?
6. How can Brooklyn speak with that beak?
Well, I guess that's all for now. Have a nice day!
Greg responds...
1. Huh? Some people's hair just does that. Look around.
These are all questions on different topics, so they must be submitted on separate posts.
Douglas "macbeth" Lane writes...
You keep brining up that Elisa will deny her love for the big guy becuase she wants to have a normal life. But will her life ever be normal again? I mean just knowing about the gargoyles could potentially mess up somebodies life (Vinnie). Broadway will probably always try to come over for dinner, and she'll always have them on her mind. In a sence they have ruined her life so why should she deny the feelings that she odviously have and go with what she knows she wants?
Greg responds...
There's normal and there's normal.
There's having wonderful, strange friends and adventures.
And there's losing out on the chance to have a family on the order of the kind of family her parents had. The kind she always dreamed of having.
The two notions aren't mutually exclusive until you throw her love for Goliath into the equation.
Ultimately, she won't be able to deny her feelings for him. But that doesn't mean she hasn't tried.
Derek writes...
Would Goliath have ever seen his dream of the return of the Golden Age between Gargoyles and man come true before he died?
Greg responds...
Not completely. But I think it's fair to say that he'd see signs of hope. Signs that would prove to him -- though not necessarily to everyone -- that his efforts had been worthwhile.
Airwalker writes...
Goliath basically commited suicide at the end of AWAKENINGS 2 and also abandoned his children. Why hasn't anyone ever brought this up to his face? It's not the same as Demona's betraying the castle but it is just as bad. He abandoned his unborn children and while he did ask Katharine and the Magus to care for them, they didn't exactly have a great record dealing with Gargoyles up to that point. For all he knew they could have done anything after he was frozen.
What are the feelings of the Eggs on this? I understand that Guardian, Magus, and Katharine cared for them, loved them and raised them as their own children but some of them must have some sort of feeling about being abandoned by Goliath. (I know that this sounds like I'm asking for 36 (technically 35, we can't really count Boudicca) individual responses but I'm really interested specifically in Angela, Gabriel, and Ophelia's opinions and only what the general concensus is among the others.)
Greg responds...
This is a great, but VERY complex question.
Even answering just for Angela would require a term paper.
But one thing you need to understand right off the bat is that the "Eggs" were taught their GOLIATH history by Katharine, Tom and the Magus. I doubt Goliath came off as a "bad dad who committed suicide" in their telling of the tale. (Though, that's exactly what happened of course.)
In fact, we have evidence that the clan thought of Goliath as a mystical savior. A Sleeping King who would one day awaken and return when his clan needed him. And isn't that exactly what happened. Tom himself, only a boy when all the bad stuff went down, seemed to feel that finding Goliath would solve all his Archmage problems. (Lucky for him, Elisa and Bronx went along for the ride.)
When you consider the guilt that the Magus (and I assume Katharine) were not shy about revealing, you can see how the story could easily be colored in G's favor.
Now, I'm not saying that every individual garg bought the party line. But, gee, when Goliath did finally show up, things turned out pretty well. With the Archmage, with Oberon. Even the skeptical might have been convinced.
Which really only leaves us with Angela. I feel that after their Nigerian adventure, Goliath would have begun to open up more honestly with her. To reveal truths that he himself might not be conscious of. (After all, she's very intuitive.) She may now know the truth. But to her -- well, my God, there were so many extenuating circumstances. And her life has been so darn great, how's she supposed to complain or feel bitter? It doesn't seem her style.
Anyway, that's what I figure...
Airwalker writes...
Does it haunt Goliath that he could kill Lexington so easily for being a traitor in FUTURE TENSE when he couldn't do the same to Demona in a similier situation?
(I know that he knows now that it was all just a Puck created illusion that he disposed of, but at the time he really thought it was Lexington.)
Greg responds...
I'm not sure he was conscious of a desire or intent to kill. (Which is not the same as denying he had one.) Technically, I think we're talking voluntary manslaughter.
But to answer your question, I think that Goliath -- being a straightforward guy, with enough real tragedy on his plate -- would not be too inclined to dwell on actions that he was driven to by a fantasy world perversly designed to drive him to absolute despair.
Airwalker writes...
In THE PRICE, it never seemed to occur to Goliath that perhaps Hudson died in his sleep. Is dying in their sleep THAT rare among Gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Yep. Also, however, I don't think he wanted to believe that. If the cause was magical, he could find a counterspell. If Hudson passed away, he's lost another dear friend. Do the math.
Jeff Lenihan writes...
Mr. Weisman,
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
1)How do the Trio and Hudson feel about the relationship between Goliath and Elisa? I'm guessing the Trio probably don't have a problem with it(based on their reactions to seeing the two dancing in "Eye of the Beholder"), but I can't help wondering if Hudson would feel that, as clan leader, Goliath is setting a poor example for the Trio by abandoning gargoyle tradition to take a second mate(and a human at that).
2)In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?
Greg responds...
1. I think Hudson saw something going on between Goliath and Elisa as far back as the night he took the name Hudson in "Awakening, Part Three". Look at his face, after Goliath picks up Elisa.
I don't know if he had reservations at first. But they can't still exist. Especially after "Vows". (A) Hudson is a realist. (B) I think he's more open-minded then you give him credit for. And (C) I think he loves Elisa like a daughter at this point.
2. Per our rules, I invite and hope you will resubmit your second (quite interesting, but unrelated question) on a separate post.
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