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Now that I've posted all my episode thoughts...(in theory I still plan on doing the same on the comics, but...) I want to say thank you for the series in general. (I'd go into details, but it seems redundant after posting all those responses.) I've thoroughly enjoyed it in all its parts. Well, by the time you read this the video game will be out. [Yep!] I probably will have to sit it out. Pathetic as it is, I have to admit to some motion sickness from a lot of video games. I'm assuming I'll be able to get some pretty detailed descriptions from the good folks here. I hope that there will be other continuations as well. (Also good luck on your new Star Wars series.)
I have to admit to more than a little annoyance that another show I enjoy is canceled, but also some confusion. If I understand correctly one of the major factors, if not the major factor in the cancellation is that the merchandise didn't sell as well as they companies had hoped. Good viewership numbers are almost inconsequential. If this is true, (big if, I admit), I don't understand the business model. Why continue making cartoons targeting the older demographic at all? I know the show aimed for a broad audience, but it aimed for each part directly. A lot of cartoons aim themselves at kids directly, and place bonus references and jokes for the older viewers. I've loved many shows like that. But the complexity of characters and plots in shows like Young Justice is not a bonus for older viewers, it is integral. (IMHO) A relationship like, for example, Guardian and Bumblebee is more relateable to a college or adult viewer than a kid. (I would have gone to Babs and Dick, but that was mainly expanded upon in the comics.) A kid would gravitate to the first season romances, or the M'gan/L'gan/Conner triangle. All the relationships were interesting and important to the show, and none were simple, it's just different parts resonant (from experience or at least plot type familiarity) better to different age sets. (Or for out of YJ examples- In Green Lantern- the complexity of Razor and Ia's relationship- given his past lost love, her resemblance, his survivor guilt and rage issues and her ultimate sacrifice is not something that targets the younger viewers of the show. They'll just accept the two are a couple and enjoy the fight scenes. It was perhaps more integral to the show than any Hal based plot. In Tron the entire looks of the show was aimed older, high teens and 20s would be my guess, and not particularly conducive to action figures to my eye.)
Older fans are less likely to buy toys, (or have toys bought for them), but they also have control over their own finances to buy what is actually advertised during broadcast. Between the 24 hour cable tv cycle and dvrs, grown ups will be watching when kids can't, allowing for targeted ads of the none happy meal/stompies/pillow pet variety. (For the record, my 4.5 year old adores her stompies. ~she's 5 now~) I get that a franchise like DC or Marvel or Star Wars can expect some cross product sales, and even a show not squarely aimed at a small kid can have a cool iconic action figure that sells well. But no one expects Smallville or Arrow to survive on toy and apparel sales, they stays on air based on the number and demographics of viewers, just like Birds of Prey did not last for the same reason. Have cartoons, or at least the beautifully animated ones, become loss leaders for merchandise like comics have become loss leaders for movies? And is that a reasonable burden to place on a show that does not squarely target the audience that will buy those toys? Is a high level video game an attempt to tap into an action figure equivalent of older viewers?
I don't want to turn this into a rant about how annoyed I am that YJ was canceled....er, not renewed. I will admit to being mightily confused why DC Nation isn't aiming to expand into more than an hour of programming. I just assumed it was planned to become a 2 or 3 hour block like the old Disney Afternoon, with perhaps a rotating stable of shows. But I am interested on your more insider insight on what the none creative aims are when a new cartoon is unleashed upon the world nowadays and whether they are reasonable. Thanks,
I think one thing to keep in mind is ratings these days are NOT what they used to be.
Ducktales was a ratings smash. It made it's money by itself. Any merchandising was gravy.
Our numbers on Gargoyles, back in the day, puts the ratings of many of today's quote-unquote top-rated animated series to shame. (And Gargoyles was a hit, but never a home run, ratings-wise. Just a single or double.)
So with lower numbers overall, that means less income is coming in from advertising. Meanwhile, the costs of production have either held steady or gone up. That's pretty simple math, isn't it?
So to pay for the production of these shows, you're counting on other streams of revenue to balance the books - and for an action show that mostly means TOYS.
So if the toys don't sell - for whatever reason - how do you pay for the series?
Whether that's reasonable or not is somewhat immaterial. It's just the cold, hard truth of the situation.
So EVERY show I've ever been asked to produce has a core target that it's trying to reach, and usually that's BOYS 6-11, because the belief is (whether you agree or not) that Boys 6-11 drive toy sales for action figures. Doesn't mean the networks object to other demographics (girls or younger kids or older kids, tweens, teens and adults) ALSO watching. But you still have to hit the target.
Picture it like a bullseye. Concentric circles. You MUST hit the center. But hopefully in hitting that sweet spot, you are also reaching the other demos. Back on Gargoyles, I was farely successful at hitting that target audience AND reaching other demos too. And that has always been my goal on these shows. We didn't quite manage it on W.I.T.C.H. We did on Spectacular Spider-Man. And our success was mixed on Young Justice. Ratings were decent overall (by today's standards though not by any absolute standard at all), but our ratings in our target demo were inconsistent at best. (We could go on forever about why, but it doesn't change the FACT of the numbers.)
Throw in Mattel's decision to abandon their YJ line (again, without going into the reasons behind it), and frankly it's no surprise we weren't renewed.
Because how could Warner Bros afford to make it?
After experimenting for two seasons and 46 episodes of YJ, why wouldn't they take the chance on something new that might bring in more money? Or at least pay its own way?
Frankly, we need a new business model. But the studios haven't landed on one that works yet. So they still chase hits.
Endgame-
Shorts
-I liked the 'All New' Ardman short a little better this time around.
-Farm League...eh, Didn't Robin's Egg free the bad guy? Lampry is indeed disgusting.
1- What's with the new, admittedly classy, WB opening banner?
Q 2- Just noticing the looks between the Leaguers on Rimbor, especially the Hawkfolk...was there a backup plan they fortunately didn't need to use?
3- "Clearly all ~four~ of you are corrupt beyond redemption."..."Freedom is overrated." Death scream! Aside from the clever line, it does give you the tragedy of Green Beetle's scarab- it's been a free sentient being for only a few days and now it is dead. On the flip side you wonder at the personality of Black Beetle. Maybe it is what he would have chosen, maybe he's been hooked into the Reach so long there is no him apart. Green Beetle's personality did not seem totally dormant under the Reach, so you could extrapolate from there, and yet...the Jaime of Bart's memory seemed awfully closer the Black B than Green B.
4- "That is not the More we are accustomed to receiving." Oh, if that were a parody of justice in some parts of the world...
5- "The rest of the League is spread thin saving lives across the globe." I see a certain school bus!
6- Conner & M'gann...I'm actually in L'gann's corner at this point...
7- Lex saving the world...he does that often, but somehow I suspect that virus may have more than one purpose.
8- Vandal Savage's threat's timing...
9- Oooomega? :)
10- Static & Black Lightning...is that an homage to the Static cartoon?
11- I know it's a dramatic moment but, "Where's Wally?". Giggle. That out of the way...So Wally gets something like Barry's famous exit from Crisis on Infinite Earths. At one time that would have had a feeling of finality to it...but not so much anymore. Actually, this one has a bigger opening than that did- there you saw the body, here there was none. Not that it isn't a worthy hero's sacrifice.
12- Opinion has turned back in favor of the JL. (I guess they just gave the ambassador back to the Reach to stand trial.)
13- GGG. Sigh. I liked it better when he was right. Now he's pretending he hadn't been in the Reach's corner not too long ago. The idea that you didn't like him but he attacked the JL for valid reasons, and turned on the Reach when they proved false was pretty cool. Now he's just part of the Light's plan.
14- "...And on that note I officially turn over my chairmanship of the League to you." "Wow. Thanks so much."
15- Barbara in the Watchtower...cute.
Q 16- Let's see how Tigress does...As a hero? As a blond. :) Adding the edited lines into the screen moments- When Wally suggested more yellow and green for Bart, was that before he began to think about getting back in the game?
Q 17- Static in the group is cool, but I'm sad we didn't get more of the runaway groups own adventures. It almost seems like you missed a few episodes you meant to put in, but unless I'm mistaken, while this season was shorter than the first, it was decided to be that way fairly early. Were there supposed to be more adventures seen- perhaps in comic form?
18- Savage on Apocalypse...(and is GGG with him or DarkSeid?) The most obvious thread for the 3rd season we all wish were coming up soon ~sniff~ I'll probably vent about that in another message. Threads we very much want to follow: Apocalypse, Wally end, Nightwing's time out, Rocket's wedding, character's like Stephanie Brown that have appeared but not been introduced.
thanks.
1. Not sure what you're referring to.
2. You're overthinking it. They're upset.
10. Not particularly. It just felt right to us.
16. Yes. (Green?)
17. Ideally, yes, in the comics. Unfortunately, it wasn't to be...
18. Godfrey and DeSaad were both on Apokalypse with Savage and Darkseid.
Thanks, Laura for all your posts and kind words!
Summit- Only one question burred in comment #8, but first...
Shorts
-Loved the All New Plastic Man ...again
-Amethyst -cute enough end.
1- First time around it seemed off visually. Less so, but still this second time. The layouts are great, just something sub (the very high usual) par in the faces and maybe animation. I mentioned in an earlier review that Black Manta is movie matinee hot. He was just good looking here. It threw me off a bit.
2- When the Light unmasked, I was hoping the Reach would too. It would have been interesting to see what the rank and file looked like.
3- "No agreement exists that makes a slave of Black Manta."
"No agreement exists that guarantees the life of Black Manta."
"Manta guarantees that himself"
-all jokes about referring to oneself in third person, it's a pretty bad@ss exchange. I do wish we had a change to learn more about him.
4- "Apologies great one." "None necessary child. You have my...thanks." Putting aside the lovely bit of voice acting there, I do like this soft-spoken Ras aGhul. I'm used to him being over the top, but this speaks to a certain self-assured power that theatrics can undercut.
5- Random comment: There is something about the Reach Ambassador's design I really like.
6- Black Manta jumps between Black Beetle and son ~after~ betrayal is known. (Well... the first betrayal.) Kal doesn't even have a kind word to him while 'dying' in his grief stricken arms. Not even hearing the emotion choked voice as he proved to be alive.
7- So all the Light all are in on the Darwinian aims? I always assumed each had his or her own reason. (It seems especially odd with Klarion.)
8- The gotcha! No, Gotcha!, No GOTCHA! is fun.
-Q How did Garth pass as adult size in human disguise?
-Nightwing and opponent switching positions :)
-Gaurdian offhandedly knocking out one opponent while ducking another :)!
-Nice strategy that not everyone pulled their hoods off at once. Robin, Wondergirl and Impulse got the drop on their opponents by waiting a minute.
-And one last Gotcha! with Klarion.
-Ras says not to fight because the League has no jurisdiction - interesting villains do not fight for no reason. (The Master will be resurrected! -It's not cheating mortality if you announce you are going to do it;)
9- Back to Black Manta and son...this fell a little flat for me. Kal might say he admits to feeling conflicted, but I don't really see it. Artimas has shown anger to her dad, but there always seems to be conflict- she cares for him despite wanting not to, and he's shown her just about no fatherly consideration. Black Manta has moved oceans for Kal, and we've never seen Kal hesitate a moment. All he offers for explanation is that his father wastes his gifts on villainy. It's a long time, and a lot of serious 'affronts' before the father fights back or even shows any anger. And his line about it not being a world in which a "free man can afford to be soft" coupled with the Black Beetle incident earlier leads me to wonder if he has good reason to be somewhat screwed up. In fact the only real emotion we see from Kal is when he knocks out his father- it's anger and disdain, "I believe that was fairly ruthless, I hope it made you proud." (Well, there is that tiny eye gesture he does while looking at his unconscious father at the end of the battle...) I'm not sure if I just think a lot is missing, or if it is a story for another time.
10- I'm shipping for L'gan and M'gan. He's earned it.
11- I like that Black Beetle can dump the Ambassador. He's slave to the Reach, not a particular Reach.
12- I was surprised to learn that Kal was going back to being leader of the team...I had assumed Dick took over earlier in the 5 years, not just with the plan.
13- "Not after we destroy the Earth." Da Da DUM Da!
thanks.
7. Well, Klarion likes the Chaos. But the rest are all aboard. They may have slightly different twists to their agendas, but the basics are all the same.
8. We went out of our way to show that the Ninjas came in all sizes.
Intervention
Shorts-
Absolutely loves the All New Black Lightning short...again. I'm not sure I get Grace's text about changing oil.
More Amethyst, still okay, and actually 'new'.
1- The interaction between the beetles is pretty fascinating. To be so completely controlled and yet still have distinct personalities is not what we usually see.
2- "Don't blame Beetle! He's just as much a captive of the Reach as we were. We have to set him free! ...ya know, before he conquers the earth and enslaves mankind." :)
3- How unexpected; the Toy Man's visuals come from Smallville. I may be wrong, but isn't he an undersized suited man in the comic books? Not good or bad, just unexpected.
4- Under Reach control Blue just can't manage to really take a proper care at protecting the civilians, can he? Until now that seemed to be very good at faking everything else till now. I can't decide if it is a legit nit to pick, or just the difference of hearing it from inside Jaime's mind. Speaking of which...
5- Nice reversal to have Scarab in control (well, Reach) and Jaime in head complaining. "That's not the way I talk! And stop waving! I look like the Queen of England… Great, now I'm Peter Pan." :)
6- Poseidonis. Nice city design! It is complete NOT Atlantis. L'gan is such a sweet guy.
7- Inching closer to the Scarab I love form the comics...it's odd to think that the Scarab is as much a prisoner as Jamie. You would think when he was reset he would lose the desire not to be of the Reach, but it is clear (to me at least, Jaime misses it) that the Scarab's mind is clear. Even before Bart and Babs show up that's so, but once they do there is a distinct lack of the usual bloodthirstiness in the Scarab. Then there is dragging his blades to make noise and banging away at a force field powered by kinetic energy. Such lovely acts of defiance for one without free will.
8- Nice depiction of Bart's speed. I love the idea that he goes so fast that he can still walk on the support of the rope after it rips because the loss of tension hasn't had a chance to each the rope under his feet.
9- Reach scientist "This goes well." Such lovely sarcasm. Cut to M'gan, "this isn't going well." Ouch. Everything she says is true. Everything he says is true. Truth sucks. (M'gan does ask for Connor first thing when she gets to the warehouse.)
10- "Girlfriend...some day you have to tell me how you figure out those backward words so fast!" The question had occurred to me. "Maybe backwards is my native tongue." I bet there is some weird truth in that.
11- "They doubtless plan to destroy Blue Beetle, and then you and this scarab in the process." "Hermano, if that's your only take-away from our time together...you haven't learned a thing." Well, I did learn to talk a certain way when the Reach is listening...
Q12- "You can thank us later." Is Robin talking to his teammates of Green Beetle? Did they always have a contingency to save all Beetles who showed up?
13- "Congratulations Jaime Reyes....If this mistrust is your only take-away from our time together..." Nice turn around.
Q14- They've been working in this fix for months...before the Reach took BB over? Was this a case of- we'd better study this...wow! we'd better learn this just in case and Just in case came to pass?
15- Knowing when to throw a fight, and how to do so convincingly...impressive.
Thanks.
3. If you mean "Smallville" the television series, I don't think that's correct. Toyman was inspired by one of his many comic book incarnations. But you'd have to ask Phil Bourassa and/or Jerome Moore for details.
6. Poseidonis is the capital city of Atlantis. It's where we were in episode 108 "Depths".
12. Yep.
14. Yep.
The Hunt
Wow- first time I had 5 questions in a review for a while.
But first the Shorts-
I loved the All New Animal Man...again
DC Nation Farm League- Not sure I love it, but this one had great lines. "I want whatever Wombats eat!" "'I'll go.' 'But actually get snacks, not just run around rooftops and narrate yourself.'" "Catcat" "I am the mongoose who is also a bat...cue lightning." "I looked it up, wombats eat roots!" Alright, I think I liked this one.
1- Still wondering at the geological chaos not shown for introducing the second moon sized War World into orbit. (I just remember one mention when it parked in orbit.)
2- "One of nine young heroes captured by the Reach." Wolf is included in the count. Lex is not one to underestimate anyone.
3- "You had me at 'we owe them'." The last statement ;) or perhaps the most important.
4- Surrender ruse- those kids are certainly simpatico.
Q5- Parts of War World look like a city. Is it designed to hold a population should the person with the key desire it?
Q6- The new kids seem rather blasé about throwing Reach soldiers over the edges to presumably die. I'm not saying they should hold back, just that I am a little surprised that it doesn't make them pause at any point. Is this a case of not thinking of the (literally) faceless enemy, or rage against those that tortured them? (Although...do I imagine a landing ~thud~ right before the "and that's what you get for blasting my board!", like they landed on an off screen surface and not followed Eduardo's previous fall path?)
7- I really liked the visual of Longshadow shrinking down and his real body filling into the space before it disappeared. Something about how he sunk into and filled the feet, knees and shins was...elegantly done?
Q8- When Arsenal is out of power for his arm, does that include basic none weapon functions- does it become still? I tried pause frame, but aside from him using his other hand to take the Reach weapon, I couldn't tell if there was anything to check on screen. (I've read description of the cutting edge leg prosthetics can be like that - you don't fully charge and sometime the next day your miracle of modern mechanical engineering becomes a very fancy stump leg. One lady described being unable to leave her desk one day because she had plugged in her leg to charge.)
9- Nightwing and Megan's guiltfest. Nicely done. Without short changing legitimate emotional reactions, you have a history of not having characters stupidly hash over and wallow unaware. They can do stupid things, but not because they are blind to a painfully obvious thing. (Unless of course that blindness is a defining flaw ~ahem, Demona~.)
10- I love those smiles as Sphere comes in :)
11- GGGodfry- Happy, happy, joy, joy. Earlier I accused him of drinking the kool-aid. I do apologize. Kinda reminds you why an honest press that hates you can be your most important resource. The fact he had been on their side, but not going to ignore their sins, gives him the access to publicly call the Reach on their lies and the standing to be believed as unbiased. As for all the nasty things he said of the Justice League...a lot of them were fair. As Feste said, "now my foes tell me plainly I am an ass: so that by my foes, sir, I profit in the knowledge of myself, ...the worse for my friends and the better for my foes." (Who can resist quoting Feste?) Of course this might all be for naught if he ends up being Darkseid or the like....
12- The Light certainly are clever with mega level distractions when they steal stuff.
Q13- What is the stuff Roy takes that was in the same room as the key?
14- Nightwing is right to throw Arsenal off, and he did it they best way possible under the circumstances, but the runaways were right from what they observed, and it speaks well of them that loyalty and fairness motivates them so. Carries right through to rejecting Lex without hesitation. Those kids have great instincts. Roy will either get them killed or be the better for the association. It's too small of a group for his ill actions to be compensated for, and although he thinks they suit his lone wolf badassery, that's really not what they are about. They act from a solid core value set, not the hurt fear that Roy does. Different reactions to very similar experiences, though the new kids had each other while Roy was alone.
15- Roy immediately figures out all the pieces- he's using you as a distraction while he sent another pawn to get the crystal key! "Actually Deathstroke is more of a bishop". :) The kids reject it, but Lex is unapologetic about his utilitarian world view.
Thanks
5. I think it's largely functional, but yes, I'm sure it was designed to hold a massive army if necessary.
6. Yes, the latter. You didn't imagine the thud. It's in the mix.
8. If it were 100% drained, it becomes useless. But the power fully drains from the weapons systems before it loses function as an arm.
13. Things like Guardian's shield, Wonder Girl's lasso, etc.
Complications: (1 question in the mix)
Shorts-
An all new rerun of the second Vibe short...
Gem World- cute as the others.
1- Just really noticing, but Black Manta is movie matinee gorgeous. (Kal is beautiful (also hansom, but the word choice is intentional), but just enough not human to be 'alien'.)
2- War World bigger than moon? That should make chaos - as a Manhattanite I wonder at how high the water is hitting.
3- "Don't kid yourself Jade, we're not that different." Maybe some other time I'll see it, but right now they really seem ~that~ different. The first time I saw it I basically accepted the disdain she shows her father as that of a child to a parent, for and on par with that Artimas has shown. But on second viewing it occurs to me, she is a mother. She is probably more likely to disdain him as parent herself. Which then contrasts interestingly with Black Manta's devotion to a son that covertly disdains him. I am increasingly curious as to the history and relationship between father and son.
Q 4-"Fresh Pot" The random crew member looks really familiar. How odd. Also very human, like Black Manta, are they not Atlantian?
5- "The Martian is attempting to save him. She knows if her patient dies we have no reason to keep her alive." Well thank goodness they came up with a reason to explain it. There is no guarantee our intrepid heroes would have thought of that.
6- Ok, now we can talk. Slam! -that's unfortunate.
Q 7- Nightwing the detective puts together miniscule clues and figures out Blue Beetle is lying... works for me. But how does he do a somersault down easily three times his height and land on his feet? Is the gravity lighter on War World? (Is its gravity is based on mass and not artificially generated?) On Earth when he does something like that he usually bounces off a few intermediary things on the way down - like in that French sport that makes {extremely fit} regular people look like Spiderman.
8- In Artimas & Cheshires' room- Cheshire's anger at Megan for 'stealing' that memory makes her real sense of family contrast to her father even stronger. She's never a good guy, but her interest is in self. Since she cares about family, (despite having abandoned it when they were younger), she protects it. Same way we saw her rescue [clone] Roy to be a father. (Art note- side by side you really see the sisters look alike.) It makes her a lot more likeable…despite being a cold blooded killer. Sportsmaster, in contrast, rejects the emotional response, he takes the physical, literally kick in the head, and then is happy because his 'baby girl' is playing Manta and Light for chumps.
9- M'gan, "I realize Chesire that we will probably never be friends."
Cheshire, "You can leave off the probably." :)
10- Deathstroke, "Leaving so soon...and without a goodbye?" Cheshire, "Good bye." LOVE IT. More father daughter contrast: Sportmaster has a grudge and rep and challenge to meet- he runs to the fight. Short of something on the level of sister to avenge, (or a paycheck, I presume), she's done and gone. Way smarter. He's the bad guy equivalent of a knight throwing off his helmet after knocking off his opponent's. She's more of a shoot the knight with a gun kinda gal. Darwin with a wry sense of humor. Yeah, I know it's part of the act, but they are playing to type.
11- Mid fight sibling teasing...makes me happy. But seriously, losing a free babysitter is probably worth a small amount of bruising and blood spilled...just saying.
12- "Yeah Yeah...and sorry" "For what?" SLAM hee hee
13- Elegant end to the situation...but how long till Simon wakes up and they're all screwed?
14- What a sweet scene between Cheshire and her mom over Lian.... Of course you stopped the camera before her mom's reaction to Artimas being alive. I presume it went something like this, "She's al...She's.... I'm, I'm so hap...so ha... I AM SO GOING TO KILL HER!" Or something like that.
15- More Black Manta has heartfelt dad...and no love from Kal. I'm looking forward to that back story.
16- Jamie shows his face...I wonder, (and presumably will soon find out), if he gave up his identity or just showed a face that may or may not be recognized. (Like that JLU episode with Lex Luthar in Flash's body. He takes off the mask, looks in the mirror and realizes he has no idea who's face that it.)
Thanks.
2. The Warworld is smaller than our moon. Still huge, but not that huge.
4. Nearly all of Manta's men are African-American. Some are African. Some are African-Somewhere else. None are Atlanteans.
7. I'd have to look at it again, but I don't remember it seeming super-human.
War-
Only the last thought has a question.
Shorts-
Vibe I. All new? Still far less dated than it should be.
Amethyst- fun enough
1 A few things caught my interest in the trial-
a- "the life forms you injured" The Light had total control over the Justice Leaguers and chose not to kill?
b- "surely the bribes have changed hands by now? ...savages." Amusing, also an argument not without merit- if bribes are expected, there is a reasonable expectation of behavior in that society. To buck expectations is to challenge the order of that civilization. Like the cannibal shocked by the carnage described in WWI, 'You mean you kill more than you can eat? Savage!", what we see as bad behavior actually keeps them I check.
c- Savage, the 'savage' that started it all, a literal early savage, is there to throw Mongal into the mix. {Mongal…that voice.}
2- War World is the size of the moon? What that would do to Earth! It's cataclysmic!
3- Surest way to take back his world is to concur the entire galaxy? Overkill much?
4- Karen; "Sorry, I'm a little preoccupied ...with THE SECOND MOON IN THE SKY!" What a fantastic fake-out! Not a relationship subplot, gotcha!
5- "Unfortunately the Reach only has this single ship designed for peaceful exploration and unequipped with weapons of any kind." Yeah, that's gonna come back to bite you in the posterior. (Ironic that the Justice League really did that with their satellite.)
6- I notice that when the JL makes important contact, Nightwing always represents.
7- Mal -Fine with me, I like the attention, at least a big alien death moon notices when I'm around.
Karen-Was that a Slam on me? In the middle of a mission?!
Mal-Woman, when are you not in the middle of a mission?!
A point, a palpable point!
Mal-Alright, Supercycle's got our back, I love a lady I can count on!
Karen-Alright, I get it, I'm a bad girlfriend. Now quit pouting.
Mal- Who's pouting? I'm not pouting! Let's just blow this place and go.
I'm given her the win this time.
Mal- Good luck beautiful.
Awww....
8-Mongol's powers are red sun related? But I thought he's that powerful everywhere.
9- Cat Grant's voice is great.
10- Nice cutting from Batgirl down to the Reach on the percentage of attack neutralized. I also recall a transition from the Reach observation of attack to the halls themselves.
11- Mal- you outgrew me. Karen- idiot.
That works better than the cliché on most shows.., more satisfying too. Leads to that great happy clean up vibe Blue beetle destroys.
12- I'm trying to decide if Arsenal screwed up any chance of defeating Blue or if they were really without a chance and the airlock just gave him a chance to go another day. Tim and Karen aren't the most powerful team members, but they are probably among the smartest... (Not that it was Roy's motivation at the time.)
Q13- Why did only the still fighting members of the team get pulled by the open airlock? Roy, Karen, Time and Wolf hold on for dear life. Sphere goes out the door. But Mal just lies there. And I don't see them while the locke is open, but the same question applies to Babs, Gar, Bart, and Conner. As far as I can tell, only Cassie was pinned, and Mongal weighs a ton.
Thanks.
8. Mongul is a big, strong, powerful guy. Under a yellow sun, his powers (though not exactly the same) rise to the level of Superman's. He can't fly, but he's far stronger. Under a red sun, he has no powers, but he's still far stronger than a normal human - and far stronger than Superman would be under that same red sun. I still wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley.
9. Three cheers for the amazingly talented and versatile Masasa Moyo!
13. I'd have to look at the scene again, but no one should have just lain there. Some were further away than others. And Mongul does weigh a ton (figuratively).
Another old review, 2 questions among the comments...
Runways
Shorts-
Black Lightening and family- LOVE
SBFF- "brand new"? I'm not saying I didn't love it, just that I loved it the first time.
1-Meta gene being 'opportunistic' makes sense. The DCU is full of the superpowered children of Golden Age none powered heroes, often superpowers that fit thematically with their parents' personas.
Q2-Wilcox's design looks reminiscent of an actor whose names I don't remember...what's the importance of his necklace watch? (Close up on it being left behind.)
3-I'm so used to brilliant Static, I'm going to have to get used to regular (very good) guy- but I like that he was never a runaway. It's been so long since I read the original comics, I can't remember if he was a crazy science geek back in Milestone. (Between the brains and the quips, Virgil often reminds me of Peter Parker.) I did notice that when he knocked out the guard with the fire extinguisher it remained still in the air after the man fell. I take it is to show that he didn't just fling it at the man, or in other words, even in the thick of things he had the presence of mind not to just bean a none bad guy full force. But then it fell on the man's shoulder....
4-I'm not clear on Asami's power. I'm sure it will be made clear or answered by the time you read this, but I'm guessing it has to do with kinetic, springlike force bursts.
5-I'm still fuzzy on how the lab held the kids without parental consent, especially Virgil, (and for all we know, Asami), who wants to be with his family. Though I feel for Newt's side of the argument.
Q6-Jamie on the phone with Nightwing seemed fully Jamie, (had me thinking that the tinkering Green Beetle did hadn't yet taken effect). When the Reach takes a host, do they let the host think it's in control when it's undercover? ...Actually, from a later episode it seems they retain some of their original personality- Is either of the above true? Are the Beetles we've seen typical?
7-Amazo parts...no that's not going to end badly. But Red Volcano was certainly a surprise. Actually, nice red herring of the head being elsewhere.
8-I have no idea if the Japanese is good, bad or really Mongolian, but the timing is hilarious.
9-Virgil and can of Reach was a good chuckle.
10-Jaime going overboard and putting civilians in danger had me assuming he was turning, I hadn't realized it was because he already turned.
11-Those four kids have great instincts when it comes to issues of trust - walking away from Jaime, being wary of Lex.
Thanks.
2. The real David Wilcox, i.e. our amazing line producer, wears a watch just like that one.
4. Chi.
6. The Scarab, having spent much time with its host, is able to download parameters to make a convincing impersonation (most of the time). But it was never Jaime.
Yay! The queue is open! I wish I had some gamer friends to go to to try out YJ:Legacy. I will have to make do with everyone else's enthusiastic reviews to find the story. I apologize for the coming info dump, but I've saved up a bunch of comments since the queue closed, but a lot of it is reviews of the last few episodes. I was rather far behinds when the queue closed...
Fix
Shorts-
Batman of Shanghi- Still lovely, still not for me. But seeing fight through puppet screen is cool.
Farm League- eh
Numbered thoughts-
1-Blank Manta is such a concerned father.
2-Megan is so hesitant, what an unfortunate time to be so scrupled. I was suspicious at the time, though writing this up later lets me say I was right to be so. Still I wonder what the plan was had she not been hesitant. Were they just hoping the Green Beetle would be powerful enough to misdirect her? (His offering the Reach drink additive info is an easy give since Lex knew that Robin snagged a sample to test. The Meta gene added info might have been considered something that would eventually, or perhaps was already discovered, an even if not, it was a 'good will' gesture more than worth it.)
3-Artimas really is good at the undercover thinking on her feet. I wonder at the stories during the five year jump that showed her growing those skills. Even though her whole first year on the team was a similar hiding of self in a way, she just wasn't that good at it. (Inner and outer dialogue- Death Stroke coming along- Perfect...perfect.)
4- Blue Beetle- How about we meet up first thing in the morning...say noon :)
5-Lagon in the beginning seems all clueless wanting Megan to use her powers, but then we see him talking about their relationship and there is nothing clueless about it. HE knows something is wrong and won't even wait to talk about it.
6- Death Stroke is visually bad @ss- he moves, he poses etc. I'm on the fence about the ponytail. How it hangs or moves at the bottom looks cool. Looks weird coming from his head. It's a dumb thing for a hand-to-hand fighter, (though Nightwing once had one), but he's good enough to be taunting an opponent to grab at it.
7- Green Beetle gets Jaime to ask to let him in. It's best to get the mark to think he's asking for something from his own ideas.
8- "Megan, we don't have any choice." "No ~ ~ I suppose we don't." Great voice acting.
9- (with question)- There is one thing that struck me as little off in this and the following scenes in Karduran's room: Deathstroke is watching the whole time, he seems the two women, never talking, never saying even the minimum typical (un)pleasantries that two people stuck in a room would end up exchanging. Did he ever think it odd? Suspicious? Even Black Manta waited 6 hours before seeing Tigress stand in place as odd.
10- I still think there is good argument for Nightwing having kept the secret having been kept so limited in scope. Other dangers come from sharing.
11- Even when Kalduran has no face, but Tula does.
12- And there goes Jaime...not that we know that for a few episodes..
thanks!
8. I was constantly blown away by the quality of our voice acting - and the voice directing we got from Jamie Thomason.
9. I think the assumption was that Miss Martian was engaged in her psychic work. And Tigress was a guard. Not a friend.
I am curious about something with young Justice Legacy.
I was wondering how the Team Years went, is it from July 4th to July 4th each year, or is it from january 1st to january 1st each year.
Got young Justice Legacy for the 3DS and I have to say, was not seeing this storyline coming. The trailers did not give anything away, and I'm happy with the story so far.
January 1st to December 31st, just to preserve my sanity.
Glad you like it!
This is my belated review of "Young Justice: Invasion", which I decided to do as an overall comment rather than an episode-by-episode review (while the episodes felt complete within themselves, they also felt so much like a larger whole that it might work better this way - plus, I watched them long enough ago that I don't think I could keep the individual episodes distinct from each other in my memory).
We start with the infamous and controversial Time Skip, which I remember upset a lot of people because of the major changes to the familiar cast. It took a while for me to fully adjust to it - but one that made some sense. (In particular, I thought it fitted a major part of the story, about the alien trial. It's a big universe, and even in a DC Comics setting where you've got aliens equipped with super-technology able to get from one solar system to another in less than six months, it would still take a while for the fallout from the Justice League's attack on Rimbor to reach Earth.)
My favorite new characters in the second season were Jamie (especially how he's plagued with a Beetle with a ruthless streak that he has to keep arguing with - and worse, since he's the only one who can hear it, those arguments seem odd to anyone within earshot) and G. Gordon Godfrey (memorably voiced by Tim Curry - and what a delight! I thought it a good thing that Goliath and his clan don't live on Earth-16, since I could guess what Godfrey would be saying about them - and we probably don't need to confuse the audience further about whether the gargoyles are from outer space). It was even more of a delight when Godfrey, after lambasting the Justice League for all its secrets, does the same to the Reach near the end; (And his showing up on Apokolips in the final scene suggests that there's more to him than an opinionated talk show host.)
I can't remember all the details that I enjoyed after this time, but a few things:
1. The Krotoleans (or is it Kroloteans- I can't remember which) method of disguising themselves as humans reminded me of the animated adaptation of "Men in Black", though I don't know if that was an influence.
2. I got a kick out of the "Jabberwocky" quotes used to confuse aliens in the second episode.
3. Superman's big moment, trying to rescue the Krotoleans from the explosion - and failing because of their dislike and distrust of him.
4. As the Justice Leaguers prepare to depart for Rimbor, Martian Manhunter asking Miss Martian to look after the plants in his apartment while he's away. It's ironic that such a natural, everyday, down-to-earth moment is coming from a couple of Martians.
5. The original Roy Harper was shown convalescing at a hospital called "Royal Memorial"; I wondered why a hospital in (presumably) the U.S. would have "Royal" in its name (unless it was a surname and not "royal" in the usual adjective sense).
6. One of the funniest moments; Captain Cold learning the hard way that you should never rob a bank across the street from a super-heroine wedding shower.
7. Despite Black Manta being one of the villains (and a new member of the Light, at that), I found his love for his son touching. The moments that most stood out to me was when he was praising Kaldur for not taking credit for the success of a mission when it hadn't been due to his own efforts, and how, when he learns that Kaldur had been really a double agent, his first response is, not anger (though that comes later), but grief and devastation.
8. I think that the episode that introduces Bart/Impulse needs to be watched twice - the second time, after you know that his behaving like an oddball time traveling tourist is just an act and that he has far more serious motives. (The other things that most stood out to me in this episode was Central City having a monument that looked a lot like the Gateway Arch - being a St. Louisan, I'd naturally pick up on that - which, alas, gets destroyed in the battle with Neutron, Bart's constant use of "Spoilers!" a la River Song in "Doctor Who", and, my favorite:
FLASH (changing into his uniform and running off): Back in a flash!
BART: Does he say that often?
EVERYONE ELSE IN UNISON: Too often.)
I have mixed feelings about this being the last season. On the one hand, the revelation at the end of the Light being allied with Darkseid means that we could really have had an exciting third season. On the other, the ending felt so perfectly "full circle", with the Team floating down to welcome the returning Justice League members as an echo of the ending of the opening two-parter at the start of Season One, and the Team now having full access to the Watchtower; it's come of age.
At any rate, even though I'm not much of a DC Comics buff, I thought that this was a good series, and would like to thank you for it - and wish you well on future projects.
It's Kroloteans.
And thank you!
(You know, I've only JUST noticed that I've made it to the November questions. Felt like I'd never get through all the posts from back in March. Now, suddenly, I'm only a couple months behind instead of nearly a year. It's quite a relief.)
Greg, I watched young justice religiously every week until it's end. But I have to admit as a Superboy fan I was disappointed deeply in Invasion. In the second season everyone of the main 6 seemed like they had a role. Artemis, Nightwing, Kaldur and Wally had their secret and Wally his eventual death. M'gann had her abuse of her powers. Superboy's plot was essentially looking sad at everything and getting beaten up every time he was put on screen to the point I started cringing whenever he appeared on screen because I knew he wouldn't do anything effective against the villain of the day.
It was especially apparent in Summit where we get to see nearly every member of the team get to do something awesome and Superboy instantly gets slapped down by black Beetle before he gets his chance when just moments earlier M'gann and Artemis held off their own against him. Il
It just seemed after a certain point you were just picking on the guy.
And relatedly I have to admit I come from home where my mother was very abusive to me and my father so I admit that colors my bias somewhat but I noticed a few other people spotting the parallels as well. But basically M'gann and Conner's relationship dynamic shift seemed incredibly abusive to me. M'Gann's decision to try to erase his memory and abuse the power she had over him and then his reaction to hide what she did to him instead of telling anyone because he still loved her and doesn't want to get her in trouble over him hit a little too close to home. And instead of being apologetic in the slightest she runs off to another guy. So I admit I was hoping all season that Conner would eventually confess to anyone what she did to him and get some kind of support system and the two would eventually become friends again but no longer lovers. So I have to admit their semi-getting back together in Endgame brought me much disappointment. It just seemed like Conner's character stagnated while she dated a rebound guy and realized he was right and it's be okay because he was always there waiting for her. When it seems like he's much better off without her.
You know, no matter who your favorite character is, you're going to feel he or she was short-changed. I get folks upset with us over Wally's lack of screen time, over Nightwing's lack of action, and so on and so on...
For you it's Superboy. And I get that. I don't agree with your assessment of how we did use him, but there's no doubt he took a backseat in the second half of the second season. Invasion, as I've repeated ad nauseum, was plot-driven, and his role ebbed and flowed with that plot.
So, no, we were no more picking on Superboy than - as another recent poster claimed - we were picking on Kid Flash. We love both characters. Sometimes we showed them in favorable lights, sometimes we didn't. The fact that you focus on the negative may be a fault with our execution, but it certainly doesn't match with our intent.
As for Conner and M'gann: you flat-out don't know where that would have gone. Best not to make assumptions.
Hey Greg,
I was, and still am, a huge fan of Gargoyles, the Spectacular Spider-man, and numerous other shows you've worked on in the past. So to say that I was excited beyond belief when I found out you were not only going to be involved in a DC animated series, but that my favorite DC character, Wally West, was going to be on it as well would have been an understatement. But unfortunately for me, Wally's inclusion on Young Justice actually lessened my enjoyment of the show quite a bit. And I know it's almost impossible to juggle all the characters on team shows like Young Justice, so I didn't really have much expectations outside of Wally being portrayed in a respectable manner with whatever role he was given. And I'm sure it wasn't your intentions and that I'm probably in the minority, but I don't feel that was the case. There honestly wasn't one aspect of his involvement on this show that I took away as a positive when it came to his character as it felt his role in everything he was involved in centered around how bad he was.
First off, the main storyline line he had throughout the two seasons was his relationship with Artemis and the majority of that seemed to revolve around how much of a burden Wally was for her in both seasons. In Season One, it was him making her life harder than it had to be and being the biggest reason she wouldn't tell the team about her family ("DISORDERED") because he was a complete jerk to her for no reason when she showed up in "INFILTRATOR" and she didn't want to listen to him run his mouth again. That would have been okay if Wally would have played a significant role in her overcoming that, but he only ended up making things even worse after his one attempt to make things better in "INSECURITY". It also didn't help that I never got the feeling Artemis liked Wally all that much during that first season. She showed no romantic interest in Wally, outside of the show flat-out saying they were going to get together, that led me to believe that her constant belittling and hitting of him was anything more than her genuinely thinking he's a complete idiot and was constantly annoyed by his antics (which falls in line with all the other characters perceptions of him as they thought Wally was a complete idiot outside of situations that required science knowledge, too). The only time she was shown to even be able to tolerate him was when he was propping her up ("BEREFT" and most of "INSECURITY"), and that had more to do with her own insecurity than her actually liking Wally for Wally (while the show was clear there's quite a bit about him that she didn't like). She just liked having the attention and a glorified cheerleader. And she was shown to like/respect the other male members of the team more than Wally and they were supportive of her from the get go, so why would Wally's words matter more than theirs? I also assume Artemis crushing on Conner was suppose to mirror Wally's crush on M'gann, but the big difference is that the show was clear where Wally's real feelings lied ("FAILSAFE" and he admitted attraction in "BEREFT") before he found out about Conner & M'gann. Where as I mentioned earlier, Artemis didn't show much interest in Wally before finding out about them (Artemis giving him her spare breather so he doesn't drown ,the only other member in danger of that at that moment, and making a sling for his arm is no different than how she interacted with any of her other teammates). So I took it as Wally being her consolation prize after missing out on the guy she actually liked and was attracted to.
Plus with the way the events went down in "DENIAL", I took Kent Nelson's "find your own little spitfire; one who won't let you get away with nothin'" line to mean that Wally needed to date Artemis so she could keep him in line because he was incapable of doing it himself. I mean, the episode started out with Artemis and M'gann laughing at how much of a joke he was after the latter couldn't think of one positive quality that Wally possessed to sale Artemis on the idea of dating him. Then Wally nearly got the team killed just trying to impress M'gann. And all of Wally's interactions with Artemis in the episode either had her rolling her eyes at his antics, mocking him for constantly being wrong, or elbowing him for being rude. Honestly, I don't know why Artemis would've even been interested in a guy that the show basically said she'd have to babysit.
Then is Season Two, Season Two, it was pretty clear that Artemis wanted to return to the hero life and that Wally was holding her back from something she loved due to his own selfish fear. And I got the feeling she just used the undercover mission as an escape from their life/relationship and justified it by saying she was needed, which is also true, but it doesn't change the fact that she wanted out. And the only time she even thinks about Wally while she's undercover is when she said what they had was "special" in "THE FIX", but that's when she was trapped behind enemy lines with a comatose Kaldur (after blowing up the Cave and kidnapping teenage kids for torture) and no clear way out of that situation at that moment. So of course the normal life with Wally looked special compared to that, but later she basically rebuffed Wally on the idea of returning to Paris after they saved the world in "ENDGAME". It's like they were only still "together" in an attempt to force the idea that his death was more meaningful than it really was. I actually rolled my eyes when the show tried to pass off that Wally was important to her after he died because she was already done with him long before that. So I felt that Artemis got exactly what she wanted and what was best for her character. Wally is no longer around to hold her back and she got to avoid any possible guilt about hurting him since he's dead. He wasn't so much portrayed as her "partner" but as a roadblock that she just had to constantly get around. And a roadblock she wasn't even shown to like all that much at that.
Then there's his friendship with Dick, which is something I was always fond of in the comics and was really looking forward to seeing it on the show. But outside of Dick's one line at the end of "COLDHEARTED", all Dick really ever did was constantly make fun of Wally and put him down throughout the two seasons. A few superficial scenes of them high-fiving and fist bumping doesn't offset Dick constantly telling Wally how dumb he is and treating him like he's a joke. I know he supposedly told Wally his secret identity before the series started, but nothing that was shown on the show made me believe that Dick had much respect for Wally as a person. And I know that friends tease each other, but that was pretty much all Dick did (and some things like using Wally's inferiority to Barry to embarrass him in front of M'gann in "WELCOME TO HAPPY HARBOR", or letting an all too eager Artemis crush him with the news about M'gann & Conner at his birthday party of all times were just beyond cruel). So while Wally was far from a perfect friend, I honestly got the feeling that he cared about Dick and was incredibly loyal to him (especially in Season One). And watching Dick constantly use Wally as nothing more than a punchline was tough to watch. Plus, Dick telling Wally that he only cared about his souvenirs getting blown up in "DARKEST" just confirmed to me how little Dick thought of him. And for the record, I really do like Dick but he was beyond terrible as a friend to Wally on this show.
Also, I noticed how Wally was ultimately in the wrong when he got into conflicts with the others characters (Artemis in "INFILTRATOR", magic isn't real in "DENIAL", and Artemis again at the end of "INSECURITY"). The most notable time of Wally being wrong was his scene with Dick at the end of "DARKEST" in Season Two. I get it was just to add drama, but Wally ended up being (predictably) wrong about everything he said there and the entire scene turned out to be completely pointless as it didn't affect anything related to the plot. The only thing it really accomplished in the long run was damaging Wally's character. He was just used to make his best friend feel bad about trying to save the world and accuse Kaldur of being a traitor. Though Wally's rant would have been okay as long as he did something about it afterward but he didn't as he just went back to the sidelines. And given that most people view the characters actions in the context of it being a show about superheroes, Wally was already looking bad by sitting out while an alien invasion that almost everyone he claimed to care about was risking their lives to stop was going on. And I get that loyalty goes a long way, but Dick was in over his head and lost all control of the situation as Wally pointed out (Dick and Conner had almost died, three teenage kids, including his own cousin, was allowed to be captured for torture, and he wrongly believed Kaldur was a traitor). So how can Wally just go back to sitting on his couch thinking the woman he loved was in danger and knowing his best friend thought it was necessary that his little cousin was kidnapped for torture? It's not like Dick's never volunteered sending his friends/teammates to their death before as he did it with Conner in "FAILSAFE". Loyalty is fine, but not when it's given blindly to somebody who has shown repeatedly that they don't deserve it like Dick. Honestly, I never thought it was possible for me to hate/dislike Wally West, but I came pretty close after this because it wasn't Wally-like, as he essentially abandoned his friends and family (Bart). And what happened in "ENDGAME" doesn't erase that. In fact, I'd say it made Wally's mischaracterization (assuming Wally did actually care about the people he mentioned in the episode) after "DARKEST" worse.
Finally, there's Wally's story as a hero. In Season One, it appears that his arc was basically about maturing enough that he could become a suitable boyfriend option for Artemis. I already mentioned what I thought was highlighted in "DENIAL", and I think "COLDHEARTED" was just to make Wally slightly less of an idiot and a joke that she would consider dating him. Which isn't exactly the most flattering of character arcs. And I also felt he was portrayed as the weak link of the team. He was the character that would (comically) mess up the most on missions and with his powers (running into walls, tripping over marbles and rocks, blowing the team's cover, and nearly getting the team killed just by trying to impress a girl who doesn't even think he has one positive attribute). He was also the only member of the team that didn't land a single blow during the fight with the Injustice League in "REVELATIONS", but did manage to be the only one to suffer a significant injury. Honestly, Wally's competence in "COLDHEARTED" was hard for me to believe given how he was portrayed in all the previous episodes. He just seemed to be as much of a detriment to the team as a help unless science exposition was needed on the mission. And things like all the other characters constantly making fun of him, the running gag that Wally was so forgettable as a hero that the public could almost never remember his name, and the oblivious flirting with M'gann that made him look like even more of an idiot didn't help matters. Especially the last one as it lasted the majority of the season and there was no real payoff to it outside of "aw man!". Artemis, who only showed interest in Conner during her first two episodes, had a much more extreme reaction to finding out about M'gann and Conner being together. Not to mention Dick's over-the-top flirting worked with Zatanna in "HUMANITY", so it wasn't Wally's flirting that was bad, just that it was Wally that was doing it.
Then in Season Two, Wally's inferiority was used in "BLOODLINES" for some cheap laughs, and as a prop so you guys could show how much better Bart was than him in every single way. And I know you said you didn't think he showed Wally up at all, but I'd say four (completely obvious) different scenes where the show played it up for laughs at Wally's expense was a little much. As Wally said when he had to be carried away from Neutron's blast by Bart and Barry because he wasn't fast enough, he was being humiliated. And I don't think him assisting Jay at the end to help save Barry/Bart offsets that considering Barry promptly interrupted Wally lecturing Bart on his recklessness and gave Bart all the credit for saving him. The episode spent twenty minutes slamming home the point that Wally wasn't worthy of being named in the same sentence with Bart and Barry, and a scene that is pretty much glossed over hardly made up for it to me. Then Wally ends up dying in "ENDGAME" simply because he wasn't fast enough to live to further cement that he wasn't worthy of being part of the Flash legacy. His death wasn't so much a noble sacrifice to me (as I suspect it was meant to be) as it was him dying because he wasn't good enough to live. And being told your favorite character died because they weren't good enough isn't fun, especially when the show already had an episode where it made fun of that character for the same reason they died. Perhaps if the show would have dealt with Wally's inferiority and his thoughts/feelings about it before "BLOODLINES" or in a serious/respectful manner (much like it did with Conner's inferiority to Superman in the first season), then I'd be able to see his death in a different way. But as it is, his inferiority wasn't so much a part of his character and story as it was just used as a tool to build Bart up and serve as an excuse to kill him off.
And let me say again that I have absolutely no problem with the idea of Wally being slower than Barry/Bart or him dying. Those things could have been interesting and meaningful. But I felt with the way the show handled those things, they weren't. You tried to compare Dick not being as strong as Conner to Wally not being as fast as Bart/Barry, but there's two huge differences. The first is that Dick's one trick isn't being incredible strong and the other is that the show didn't pound home that fact over and over in a comedic fashion the way it did with Wally and the Allen's in "BLOODLINES". Wally being slower is only a big issue because you guys made it one with how you handled it. And I truly believe you don't think you guys implied that Wally was a lesser hero or not good enough because he's slower, but I do know my two kids (11 and 8) now think that Impulse/The Flash are awesome and that Kid Flash is "a loser" thanks to that episode (Young Justice was their first real experience with the DC universe). I also think simply leaving the Allen's out (or not having them be directly involved) of Wally's death scene would've been a more than satisfying conclusion for his character. That way you guys still would have gotten your death and made it about what Wally could do as a hero instead of what he couldn't (and help shed the selfish label the character had). But making it simply about his speed after his treatment in "BLOODLINES", you guys basically admitted that Wally no longer had a role in this universe because he's a second-rate speedster and therefore had to die. Which might actually be true as Wally couldn't be the Flash (not with Bart running circles around him), but I'm not sure that you guys had to be so on the head about it.
Having said all that, I did like Wally's personality on the show (well at least in Season One when his characterization was pretty consistent) and I did relatively enjoy the show on the whole. But feeling like the show was continually telling me over and over how bad Wally was throughout two seasons dragged it down for me at times. And I do get that quite a bit of the things I mentioned weren't entirely valid as Wally was just the comic relief character (they do start to add up, though). But even the important parts of Wally's story (his relationship with Artemis/conflicts with other characters/as a hero/his death) came across about how terrible and/or how much of a joke he was to me. It just seemed that outside of "COLDHEARTED", Wally's main purpose on the show was to look bad to make the others look good and enhance their story by either telling them how great they were (which they never did for him) or being the bad guy. And like I said, I don't think it was the show's intentions to do that and I think I have a pretty good idea what the show was trying to do. But what the narrative of the show wanted me to believe (that Artemis liked Wally/that he was good thing for her/that Dick thought of him as his best friend/etc) and what the show actually showed were two completely different things to me. And I just have a hard time blindly accepting things on a show when they aren't really backed up by what is shown and were even contradicted by what was at times.
So for me, Wally's story was just about how he wasn't good enough no matter how hard he tried. Not good enough for Artemis, not good enough to get any respect from his friends, and not good enough as a speedster to survive or to be worthy of being the Flash because that's simply how those things were handled and portrayed on the show itself. He did have his moments here and there (I loved "COLDHEARTED"), but what little positive the character had was overshadowed by the overwhelming negative in my opinion.
Anyway, I apologize for wasting your time with this and for feeling this way. I really, really wish I didn't. And good luck with your book, the Star Wars series, and whatever else you may work on in the future!
Well, I suppose it comes as no surprise that I disagree with nearly every aspect of your analysis. Starting with this: we never felt that Wally was a joke. Never ever. We never felt like he wasn't good enough. Never ever. You can absolutely declare that our execution failed, but you can't tell me that was our intent. It just flat out wasn't.
I've written about Wally and Artemis before in some detail already, particularly here: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=16969
And in Season Two, I don't think Artemis was as 100% about returning to the life as you seem to, and I don't think Wally was as 100% about staying retired as you seem to. Both felt conflicted. And we tried to show that with limited screen time. (Every time we did, you write it off as characters kidding themselves or the like.) And saying they weren't happy together in Season Two - or that Artemis wasn't happy with Wally - literally goes against every time we showed them on screen together.
To me, it feels like you weighted all evidence in favor of your interpretation, i.e. you formed it early and everything seemed to fall in line with it afterward. And the stuff we put in that didn't fit with your intrepretation became rare exceptions that only proved your rule, so to speak. Some examples:
*Saying "Dick only makes fun of Wally" ignores all those times that Wally made fun of Dick. It was mutual and not unlike my teenage friendships with other guys. I believe Dick was a good friend to Wally and vice versa. Not a perfect friend, mind you, but a true and loyal one.
*Saying Wally's competence in "Coldhearted" was tough to believe given what we had seen before makes it sound like we had a single agenda to screw Wally's character over, and SLIPPED up by showing him in a different light that once. As opposed to the idea that we were showing many aspects of his character over many episodes. Showing him mature in both ability and character as the series progressed.
I could go on and on, addressing each of your points one by one, but (a) that would take forever, and I honestly don't have the patience and (b) it would just come off as defensive and (c) I doubt I'd convince you anyway. It's how you feel about the character, and no explanation from me could change that retroactively, I know. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.
Still, I'm willing to take the blame for your distaste for our version of the character. You clearly came in loving Wally, and what we presented didn't work for you (preconceived notions or not). That fed on itself, as we put further things on screen that piled on (or at least seemed to). And on that level, we failed you.
So I'm truly sorry our take on Wally didn't work for you, but it seemed to have worked for many members of our audience, for whom Wally was a clear fan favorite, so I'll have to settle for that.
The Team have called the temporary hideout ion Bludhaven "the warehouse". Is that it's "official" unofficial name, like The Team and The Cave, and is it capitalized?
Well, in scripts, we referred to it as "BLÜDHAVEN WHARF WAREHOUSE". I don't think the Team ever officially named it per se. (Cf. They often referred to "The Cave" in dialogue, but that was never an official name. The official name was Mount Justice.) But I guess Warehouse with a capital W is as good a name as any.
At first, I was wondering why the Kroloteans would take so many famous politicians - and Bibbo. Players answered some questions, but raised more.
1. Assuming Noor's guard told Queen Bee as soon as he knew where they were heading, how fast could she get there? I assume she was based somewhere in the city, but it's huge. And in a state of panic.
2. How fast could the Kroloteans whip up a "bodysuit" of someone they never seen before? Judging by Bibbo's surprise, they didn't take any measurements or anything. Can this one be brushed off with "it's alien tech"?
1. I'm not gonna sweat the small stuff. If it interests/bothers you, feel free to make something up.
2. This I did sweat, and originally I had planned to show a scene where we see a "BLANK" body-suit adapt to match the person it was replacing. But there just wasn't the page space when it came down to scripting the issue. (Bummer, huh?)
Hi Mr Weisman. I'm a big fan of dramatic cartoons, and only recently realized how many of my favorites were your work (Gargoyles made me think of Shakespeare as a friend!) Thank you for making such an impact on my childhood. I do have some questions about Young Justice.
1. Are boom tubes an extension of zeta platform technology or a mostly different technology with some similar applications?
2. I was impressed at the way different backstories were tied together in YJ (e.g. Beast Boy's powers as a product of a Martian blood transfusion). Was there any particular process that you used to know when things felt "right"?
2b. Any ties that you were particularly proud of off the top of your head?
Thanks for taking the time to interact with us Mr Weisman! I look forward to more of your work.
1. Boom Tubes and Zeta Platforms have nothing in common technologically, though both utilize Zeta Beams.
2. Discussion with Brandon Vietti and Kevin Hopps. Bouncing stuff off smart people is always helpful.
2b. <shrug> I did like our M'gann/Garfield connection.
ASK GREG LIVE! - WONDERCON 2013 REPORT
First, a little background. I'm going to quote a section from the introduction I made to to Station 8 Comment Room, waaaaaay back in July 2010:
"Given that I was three when Season 1 of 'Gargoyles' first began airing, I was obviously quite outside the target audience at that point, and if I watched any of the episodes on first airing I definitely don't remember them. Rather, my first clear memories of 'Gargoyles' were watching it during the late 90s when Toon Disney was first starting up. This produced some interesting experiences; for example, I never saw and indeed never even had a clue that 'Deadly Force' existed until Toon Disney started airing it again in 2002 or so.
At the time that I first was watching this show voraciously it was amongst a litany of dozens of other cartoons, some well-written ('Batman: The Animated Series,' 'Darkwing Duck,' etc.) and some...well, not so much (here's looking at you, 'Captain Planet'). To an eight year-old, there was little differentiation between the relative qualities of these shows, and it was not until a few years on that I really began to appreciate what a true gem 'Gargoyles' was.
I'm not entirely sure when my perspective changed, though it might have had something to do with the aforementioned first viewing of 'Deadly Force.' By this point I was a pre-teen, and old enough to understand the basics of S+P...so to see one of the protagonists shoot another one in the chest accidentally, nearly causing her to die was an absolute revelation to me. Around this time I began watching the entire series with new eyes, and what I saw astounded me.
The depth, the complexity, the characterization was unlike anything else I had ever seen on the small screen, live-action or animated. The little things that escaped me on the first, second, or even tenth viewing (yes, I watched a LOT of Toon Disney) suddenly rared to life and showed me how amazing this show was, is, and always will be. Everything from the sheer emotion that Tony Shalhoub brought to the show's single greatest cameo role to the little nuances about Lexington that made me think, 'Oh, of course!' when I learned that Greg considered him to be homosexual all became clear to me, and clearer and clearer with each viewing.
'Gargoyles' did much for me over the years. To take a particular example, when I first began really reading Shakespeare during mandatory reading times in high school, I went with 'A Midsummer Night's Dream,' then 'Macbeth,' and then, after the obvious 'Hamlet,' moving to 'Othello.' It shouldn't take too many guesses to figure out what attracted me to those plays specifically.
I have many obsessions in my life, some that have faded and some that have stayed with me forever. 'Gargoyles' stayed with me forever, and by the time I was about 13 or so it overtook virtually all of my other obsessions to become forefront in my fiction-dominated mind. I began searching around the internet for various little tidbits and behind-the-scenes stuff, and was blown away when I first discovered Greg's Master Plan. That someone could have so intricately designed such a massive and complex fictional universe intrigued me to no end...particularly 'Bad Guys,' since Dingo was at the time my favorite character.
On one of my frequent revisitings of the Master Plan in 2004, I ended up clicking around some links that brought me to the FAQ...and consequently to AskGreg. If the Master Plan had blown me away, then this site caused my mind to spontaneously combust. So many hints and clues to what the future might hold for the series, should Disney allow it to somehow continue...straight from the mouth of the creator himself! In all the years since that I've been up and around the world wide web, never have I again seen such a direct, easy-to-access method of communication to the artist behind such a masterful work.
Over the years, I have read virtually every single post in the AskGreg archives, some of them several dozen times. It is one of the websites that I frequent several times a day without fail, and I have gained an uncountable amount of enrichment from reading it constantly. It was through this site that I first learned of the DVDs and comics, all of which I purchased as soon as I could possibly get my hands on them, and of the Gathering, the scope of which shocked and awed me.
One of my greatest regrets is that I was never able to attend one of these amazing events; convincing your parents to let you fly out of Hawaii to the mainland for a convention on a 90s cartoon isn't the easiest thing in the world. And although I WAS actually in town for the final one, Gathering 2009 happened to fall on the EXACT same weekend as my college orientation. If the Gathering had been just one week later, or my introduction to Pomona College just one week sooner...but I guess it's pointless to deal with hypotheticals.
In any event, my praise goes out to all of you unbelievably dedicated individuals who kept it alive for so long. If ever you are able to arrange some sort of smaller event in the future, you have my word that I will attend.
AskGreg also gave the chance to really get to know Greg Weisman (or at least, as much as this is possible without real-world contact), and he is currently one of my absolute greatest heroes in all of entertainment. I am not using hyperbole when I declare him to be the single most talented writer in animation history, and in my mind absolutely anything he touches turns to solid gold. I avidly watched 'W.I.T.C.H.,' 'The Spectacular Spider-Man,' and the various episodes he freelanced for favorite shows of mine like 'The Batman,' 'Kim Possible,' and 'Super Robot Monkey Team Hyperforce Go!'...many of which turned out to be some of the best in their respective series. And I wait with bated breath (and fanboyish panting) for 'Young Justice.' Spider-Man is my favorite Marvel superhero and DC is my favorite comic book universe...so to have Greg interpret both with his usual flair for complex, multi-layered story arcs and deeply involved character development has left me positively salivating."
Now, as you can probably tell from these words, this was a moment I've been waiting on for nearly 10 years. So as you might expect, I was...anxious. Despite my personal contact with Greg over the past couple years due to my moderating duties here, as well as friends who had met him previously who assured me that he was a really nice guy in-person, I was still a little worried I'd screw this up somehow.
Thankfully, ASK GREG LIVE! turned out to be a great experience, and truly the highlight of the weekend. There was somewhere between 15-20 guests in attendance, including myself, my girlfriend, and Blaise (whom it was awesome to meet in person). Kudos to Matthew for holding up the event sign for over an hour, and to whoever it was that cosplayed as Batgirl.
We pretty much just jumped straight into an hour-and-a-half of questions, which I hope I didn't hog too many of. A few highlights from the revelations presented therein:
- Following the Season 1 finale, Vandal immediately called up Hugo Strange and told him, "Open all the doors." Which explains a lot. Now, Greg W. ALSO said that by Team Year Five, Belle Reve was fairly full again...but at least it explains why so many imprisoned villains were walking the streets again in Season 2.
- The Joker was originally considered to appear in "Auld Acquaintance," controlling the Justice League. But for a variety of reasons (mainly budgetary; they needed Klarion anyway for the "magic stuff"), they switched him out for Klarion.
- Greg also responded to my question about whether the Joker of Earth-16 knows he's in a cartoon show by saying, "I think he's crazy enough to believe that, even if he's NOT."
- Lieutenant and Sergeant Marvel were originally considered to be on the Team in Season 2. But with only 20 episodes, several intended arcs were cut or reworked to have occurred during the Time Skip: a Marvel Family arc, a Red Tornado arc, and a Zatanna arc. With nothing to do anymore, Mary and Freddy were slotted into the Time Skip.
- He hinted pretty damn strongly that we'll be hearing more about "poor, disgraced Ocean-Master." Presumably in "Legacy," which I am personally excited as all hell for.
- Clone!Roy, post-"Satisfaction," is a stay-at-home-dad. For the most part. He and Cheshire are "trying to make it work," to the degree that people like them can.
- I asked if working on YJ had made him give more thought to who the 16 Sixteens in the Illuminati are. He basically said, "not really," while adding that he's got most of the major players in the Illuminati pretty well figured out, and has for a while. Which isn't to say he doesn't leave a fair few slots open for moments of epiphany.
- Darkseid has been the Light's silent partner since Season 1. Which most of us had assumed, but it's nice to have firm confirmation.
- Victor Cook did a fly-by. No time for questions, just said hi and name-dropped "Mecha-Nation." But still...really cool.
- He described Jason Spisak's last recording with them. Jason came up afterward and said that it was rare for an actor to be able to end his role on such a great, final note, "instead of just flying off into the sunset, with no one having any idea if you survive or not." Having now seen "Dark Matter," Greg believes that may have been coded snark.
- Oh, and surprising no one with a head on their shoulders...Greg disproved the rumor that DC wanted Wally killed off because of the New 52. Though it WAS amusing to hear him call those rumors, and I quote: "Complete horse"...baloney.
- He said he's deliberately keeping mum on "Rain of the Ghosts" until he knows if his publisher is doing any advertising. If they don't, he may start teasing some plot tidbits on Ask Greg.
- He talked a bit about availability issues...about how it came to be that Wentworth, Kittie, and George were replaced toward the end of the season. Just a whole lot of REALLY bad luck regarding other projects. But he also revealed the replacement that almost was...if it wasn't for the fact that no one on Earth could do an impression that did justice to him.
That's right...they once almost lost Tim Curry.
He was shooting something or another toward the middle of the season. They simply could not get him before the episodes had to ship. So what they did...was Greg recorded the lines. Taaaaaaaaalking liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis sooooooooooo thaaaaaaaaat theeeeeeeey cooooooould AAAAAAADR iiiiiiiiiiiit aaaaaaaaafteeeeeeer theeeeeeey reeeeeetuuuuuuurned froooooooom ooooooverseeeeeeeeeeas.
Which they would NEVER do otherwise. For no one but Tim Curry. Greg had to do a bunch of takes, because Jamie kept having to stop him and shout, "SLOWER!" Needed the mouth movements SO exaggerated that no one would notice it was ADR'ed. Which I don't think anyone did.
- I think those are all the big revelations, but there was lots of real fun little stuff on Greg's writing process, the backroom thinking that went into Darkseid's cameo, and Greg's hopes for the future. As he said at one point, "I still haven't given up on Gargoyles, and that's going on 20 years at this point! Why would I give up on a series that ended THIS month?"
Beyond that, it was just an incredible experience to be in the presence of the guy - to hear him speak, to ask questions (even utterly silly ones) directly answered to our faces, to shake hands, and to be personally thanked for my years of hard work on Ask Greg...which, needless to say, was incredibly gratifying.
The atmosphere was great - casual, friendly, and with no pressure on either the askers or on Greg. We chatted, we laughed, and we got to hear Greg at his absolute "frankest." Which is to say, a little...off-color. And oh it was glorious.
At my request, we also did an impromptu signing at the end; I got my Clan-Building Volume 1 trade, my SpecSpidey Season 1 DVD, my Young Justice Volume 1 trade, a Captain Atom comic, and the essay I wrote for Contemporary Political Theory last semester (and submitted to Ask Greg afterward) signed, and pretty much geekgasmed into the floor. SOOOOO utterly wonderful.
[If you want to see pics of said signed stuff and/or other stuff I snagged at the Con, you can go here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/94547312@N04/sets/72157633137324644/with/8608204054/].
We also got to chat a bit privately, which was of course very good fun. And he even indulged my stupid, silly, obsessive request...to pose with my Fluttershy toy and say, "Fluttershy is best pony." His response was golden, too.
Greg: I have no idea what that means.
Me: I didn't expect you to.
Greg: Nah, what I mean is, am I saying something that will get a thousand angry bronies coming after me?
Me: No, most bronies tend to agree that Fluttershy is best pony, anyway.
Unfortunately, my girlfriend's phone appears to have recorded only the first second of the line. But I still posted it to YouTube because the image is gold:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qVVtIsNeb4
Overall, my first in-person meeting with Greg Weisman proved to be everything I was hoping for it to be, and more. He's a massively cool guy who doesn't operate on any pretense; he is what he is, and what he is is a genius at writing/interpreting fiction.
It was truly an honor to spend that time with him, and I very much hope it won't be the last.
Greg Weisman, you rock (woo-hoo!). Don't let anybody tell you different. Because this kind of treatment of your fans makes me truly proud to be involved with helping out here.
Thank you for ASK GREG LIVE!
Thank you for all the wonderful shows you've brought us over the years.
And thank you for never giving up hope. I await "Rain of the Ghosts" with bated breath, and I can't wait to here the announcement when you get your next television gig.
Because it's coming. And I look forward to watching the hell out of that show, whenever it comes.
Wow. Dude, do you really want to stoke my ego THAT MUCH?
Anyway, it was great meeting you too. You're contribution to Ask Greg has been invaluable.
I hope you're thinking about coming to ConVergence this July for the Gargoyles Reunion convention within a convention. More details on that should be forthcoming this month.
So at the end of season two, is Zatanna's magic up to par to have an equal battle with Klarion, as opposed to in Misplaced when he could clearly knock he out of the way?
Klarion is a Lord of Chaos. Zatanna's pretty much never going to be in his league when it comes to raw power. (Same with Zatara -pre Doctor Fate - even in his prime.) But the more training and experience and stamina she builds up could allow her to defeat him, given what a flake he is.
Regarding the ending of "Endgame"... Is that the first leave of absence that Dick Grayson has taken from the Team?
Of any significance, yes.
What are Asami's superpowers? I have the hardest time thinking about them. Is it kinetic energy manipulation or wind manipulation or what?
It's Chi-Manipulation.
1. After Jaime got un-moded but before the finale, did Cassie and Jaime get a chance to really talk? I got the impression they were close from the comics, so I thought Cassie was probably really worried, so I was wondering if they had time to talk that over between the business of missions.
2. Did you ever plan a conversation between Cassie and Jaime that had to get cut? I find it odd that they get a fair amount of time together in the comics, yet don't interact in the show.
3. Was Tim's lack of screentime in comparison to Jaime's the reason that Tim was chosen over Jaime as Cassie's love interest (since Jaime did have "biochemical changes" after all)
4. How long did Cassie have a crush on Tim before getting together with him?
5. Was anyone else (like Dick, Barbara) aware of Cassie or Tim's mutual crush before they became a couple? If so, and you don't mind telling me, who are they?
You rock for this site and everything! Young Justice Forever!
1. In that short window? Not much.
2. Not particularly.
3. I'm sure lots of young men get biochemical changes around Cassie.
4. Some time.
5. I can't imagine Barbara not knowing.
Uhmm, Hi. It's my first time to ask a question so can you please answer this?
What were the spells used by Zatanna in #218/Intervention?
Thanks. :)
I think they can all be found here: http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/Intervention#Backwards_spells
Hello Greg,
Another Flash related question I have been pondering for a while now...
1. Why is Flash's (and Kid Flash's) lightning bolt insignia/logo/symbol different from the one in the original comics? In Young Justice it is only one line that switches back, but in the comics it is two (as I'm sure you know, being so knowledgeable in comics and such). I know Bruce Timm did it in the DCAU as well, and it was one of the reasons I had such a hard time (which in the long run I considered fun) finding out and realizing the differences between Flashes. I was just curious. Does it have anything to do with that the logo can't be the same due to copyright? Is it just easier to draw? Was it your preference?
2. Is there more cut material from episodes that you are willing to share?
3. I thought the Arsenal spin-off would have been a great idea! Along with the other items you pitched for Earth-16...here's hoping we'll see some soon!
1. You'd have to ask Phil Bourassa and/or Brandon Vietti. For me, it was just Phil and Brandon saying, "What do you think?" And me going, "Cool." I don't know what their thought processes were.
2. I think I've shared all there is.
3. Me too.
So... Weird question rewatching the Hunt.
How does Tye get sensory input when he is using his big yellow avatar? I ask because he always has his eyes closed. Does he have some kind of sixth sense?
He's connected to the Longshadow.
In Invasion, Artemis fakes her death to go under cover, but now that the mission is over is she somehow going to be able to go back to her old life as Artemis or will she get a new identity?
SPOILER REQUEST.
I have some Jaime-related questions......
1) Does Milagro Reyes exist on Earth-16?
2) Can you give us any idea of what Bart and Jaime's friendship was like during the two month period Jaime was on mode? They didn't really talk to each other or interact in War.
3) Post-Endgame, who does Jaime consider his best friend?
4) Would you have found it irrelevant for the scarab to name himself (Khaji Da) or did you just not have time to include it in the script?
5) Was there any relevance to moded Jaime hitting Bart first in War, other than that he was simply the closest one (same with moving to kill Bart first, rather than Barbara in Intervention)?
I hope you can answer these, thanks!
1. SPOILER REQUEST.
2. What you see is largely what you get. Just more of the same.
3. I assume you mean among the Team, in which case, Bart.
4. Neither.
5. More that he was the fastest one. If he had hit anyone else first, dealing with Bart would be difficult.
1: Queen Perdita, is she still in power in 2016?
2: Does she have feelings for Wally
3: What kind of Nation is Vlatava
1. SPOILER REQUEST.
2. SPOILER REQUEST.
3. A constitutional monarchy.
Pressed the m button there when I was going for the comma, sorry about that! I do have two more questions though:
1) In "Endgame", how did the Justice League get back to Earth so quickly after being cleared of the charges? And whichever method they used for their return to Earth, why didn't they use that means when they were leaving Earth in "Alienated"?
2a) I was thinking about Vandal Savage threatening Rimbor with the Warworld earlier in the episode... Why didn't he carry out that threat?
2b) Why didn't Savage want the League to return to Earth? Did he not want them to help drive the Reach off-world?
1. They used the same method to go and to return, i.e. they flew in a Green Lantern generated starship.
2a. Why would he? The threat was he'd attack if they attacked Earth. They didn't.
2b. He didn't need them for that. He wanted them convicted. Whether or not they returned to Earth didn't matter as much to him.
Hi Gregm just a quick question: Whose call was it that Aqualad and Tempest didn't pair up when the heroes were splitting into pairs in "Endgame"? Did Kaldur and Garth not want to pair up?
Nothing like that. But Kaldur did want to pair up with La'gaan and needed to.
Hi Greg,
I was just wondering: what were your reasons for making Nightwing a far more serious character in YJ season 2 than the more light-hearted Nightwing of the comics? Was it the leadership role in season 2 that was weighing him down (I noticed that he seemed a little more light-hearted at the end of Summit when he'd relinquished leadership to Aqualad)? Or did something happen during the five year gap that affected him so much that he became more like the Bat (Jason's death, perhaps?)?
I was just curious as Dick Grayson/Nightwing in the comics has pretty consistently been portrayed as an eternal optimist and having an actual sense of humour, even when he was Batman. He overcame the darkness of his mentor and retained an utterly joyful attitude towards life. So what made you decide to make Dick/Nightwing in Young Justice more like Batman?
I'm not criticizing! Just genuinely curious.
Thanks! :)
1. All of the above. But he also still had his moments of fun. And I don't think personality-wise he was ever anything like the Batman in our show. Not really.
Hey Greg,
Well , sad to see the end of what was an overall great series. I do wish it could have gotten another season. So many dangling threads/plots. But you guys know that.
I saw the finale and gotta say this was the weakest episode of the entire series. I know there was rush to try to give some resolution but it felt meh. It was rushed and many things shoe horned. It fell flat for a finale. You seemed to want to do fan service too but again some things fell short and were baffling.
The killing of Wally...okay he might not be dead knowing you...but still the best couple in the show end up torn asunder.
The worse couple took up precious time that could have been used to do something else and that is Superboy and Miss Martian. Them being lawyers to get the JL off was really lame. So Icon could not have done that? Superboy suffered in season two. What great development we could have had with him was stunted and he simply became the sad whipped pining boyfriend of a girl who frankly did not deserve to get him back. I don't think that relationship did much for Superboy.
The Tim/Cassie reveal was the most baffling move. This show seems to do a lot of shipping but at least I would understand if there was some hint or chemisty. Cassie and Jaime were the most obvious pair up. Diverse guys can't get the cute alpha girl no more than 'ugly' ones like Lagaan is the unfortunate message I see here. For a show aimed at kids I would have preferred if we could have pushed some forward thinking ground.
The Lex virus was way too convenient and the JL just being off world seemed such a waste of time. Why have a JL though if these kids can do everything? The show did pander at times to the young team.
Kaldur I must say was one of the best characters and you did his arc well. His tie up could have been the finale...how better it was done than End Game. Artemis was another character as Jaime who were well developed. I liked the younger kids but they seemed to just take a lot of time away from the team. It just at times seem too packed and too expansive for such a short time. I know it is a chance to let others shine but the pacing suffered. Your villains were all great but best villain has to be Black Beetle. Seriously sir. Well done. I dread when this guy is around. I hope DC does more with him.
Anyway overall a big A. But C for the finale.
Sorry the finale didn't work for you.
Hi there I was wondering
1a. Are Artemis and Zatanna still close, 5 years later? I know they were somewhat best friends in the first season of Young Justice.
1b. Do they still hang out and have their 'girls night outs'?
2. If they aren't close, how come they drifted apart if they did drift apart?
1a. Yes.
1b. I'd think so.
2. See above.
1) What was the reason the Light needed the league alive for the next phase of their plan (as stated in Auld Acquaintance)? Was it so the League would be there to drive the Reach off Earth when the time was right?
2) Why did Savage want the Rimbor 6 convicted? Didn't he need those particular leaguers available as well? How could they have contributed to the Light's plans from prison?
1. In part. And for them to be the villains of Rimbor.
2. He had all sorts of contingencies, but as you saw, they weren't necessary to save the Earth that time. And it's nice knowing where to find them. Plus if they were convicted and decided not to serve their time, that would work in his favor too.
Hi Greg,
I was just re-reading some of the JLA and Teen Titans comics and was once again impressed by Nightwing's leadership skills. In most comics he's portrayed as being the ultimate leader, surpassing even Batman because of his excellent interpersonal skills.
My question is:
What was the reasoning behind making Nightwing only temporary team leader in YJ season 2? In season 1 Kaldur said Dick was born to lead the team, but to be perfectly honest, I haven't seen much evidence of that. It seemed to me he still had a lot to learn about what it means to be a leader. Was this your goal? To show that the road to becoming a good leader is a rocky one?
Thanks!
I'm a bit confused by elements of your question, frankly. Nightwing wasn't temporary Team leader in Season Two. He WAS Team Leader. Then he stepped down at the end of the season for reasons that I think are quite understandable. I think he did a great job as a leader. If you didn't see evidence of that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
But yes, the road to becoming a good leader is rocky.
I was on wikipedia(yeah I ), but anyways I was reading about the actor/actresses of Gargoyles, and I found that a lot of them worked with you on Young Justice too, such as Thom Adcox-Hernandez as Lexington and Klarion the witchboy, and Ed Asner as Hudson, and Dr. Kent!! I love that some of these people worked with you again!! So I have a question
1. Ed Asner's filmography on wikipedia, stats on that on Young Justice he voices Doctor Fate, and Granny Goodness, so my question is did I miss Granny Goodness being in young justice or was that a mistake?
2. What was like working with the old cast members of Gargoyles?
I really enjoyed both shows and since you had Josh Keith voice Black Spider as a nod to your series Spiderman, it was refreshing to hear that you also had a nod to Gargoyles with them voicing some of the characters of Young Justice, oh and I have one more question containing endgame
3. Was Wally's death a nod to Barry Allen's death in infinite crises?
This is all, I love your work and I look forward to your book series!!!
1. A mistake. I believe Ed voiced Granny Goodness in Justice League and/or Justice League Unlimited.
2. It's always fun. Like old home week.
3. Not particularly.
I have two unrelated questions.
1) Had Kaldur anticipated his and Artemis's cover being blown during Summit? Because it seems as though he had. Did he anticipate someone recognizing the glamor charm?
2) Did Klarion help Savage take out the three leaguers on Warworld? I ask because the three of them seem to be a bit much for Savage to handle on his own.
1. He recognized the potential that something could go wrong.
2. Maybe you underestimate Savage.
is black lightning is now the mentor of static?
Yes.
Now that Bart is Kid Flash. Is his designation still B23? Or he now uses Wally's B03?
Designations don't change in that way. They remain attached to the individual. Tim Drake didn't take over Dick Grayson's old designation when he became Robin. Nightwing kept it.
Hey Greg: I just wanted to say "thanks", for such a wonderful TV series in both "Young Justice" and "YJ: Invasion". I watched everything YJ-related for 2+ years now, and it was my first introduction into anything related to you (I watched Gargoyles rarely back in the day). YJ was (is) an amazing drama, albeit animation. I loved the character development of M'gann this year, and I loved the evolution of the series. I am sorry to hear it is likely over now, but I appreciate it (and you) for what it is -- a kickass TV show, juggling multiple characters with a complex but mostly resolved storyline. Thanks for the memories, and I hope to see you again soon. -Brent
Thanks for the kind words. If you want more YJ, check out our comics and the YJ Legacy video game. All are CANON.
Did you have trouble coming up with storylines for Wally? All the other major characters at least had one major story arc over the two seasons. Superboy had the clone of Superman and Lex storyline in season 1, Miss Martian had the story of her insecurity about her Martian appearance in season 1 and her misuse of her martian abilities in season 2, Artemis had her family background story in season 1 and her undercover identity storyline in season 2, Kaldur had his undercover storyline in season 2, and Dick had the whole leading the team and keeping a secret from the team storyline in season 2. Wally is legitimately the only one who didn't have an ongoing story in either of the two seasons. He seemed like an accessory to other people's story. And then you killed him off. It didn't make much sense and seemed like a tragic misuse of a popular character who has such a rich comic book history.
No, we had no trouble. We just had priorities. I'm sorry you viewed our (mis)use of Wally as 'tragic'. Obviously, we don't agree. (And his popularity - or any character's popularity - had nothing to do with our decision-making process.)
Hey Greg, questions about Young Justice:
I know your probably sick about being asked about Wally's fate, and I can understand that.
Anyways I'd be lying if I said that my favorite characters death in Endgame was a storytelling choice that sat well with me. It's not so much the concept behind it, everyone dies eventually. What bothered me the most is the fact that I felt Wally as a character, still had plenty of mileage you could've gotten out of him in many ways. Whether it's his relationship with Artemis, being the science guy the league goes to, his dynamics with other characters, a guy you can always count on to get a laugh from. But a HUGE one that disappoints me is him not taking up the Flash mantle. And considering you've said that this show is about growing up (along with secrets and lies), I found it baffling that you guys never tackled what is probably considered the most iconic sidekick to main hero mantle evolution ever in DC Comics (Wally going from Kid Flash to Flash); I would've thought THAT would've been something that would've fit like a duck in water on this show, not to mention it never being done in animation. Heck, Impulse being faster than Wally wouldn't have bothered me that much if that was used as an insecurity for Wally to overcome WHILE as Flash.
But it was not to be for some reason. :( Which brings me to my questions:
I'm not sure IF you'll be able to answer these qestions but nothing ventured, nothing gained right?
1.) Was Wally's evolution to becoming the Flash ever considered at all when producing the show?
2.) If not, was DC ever willing to let you kill off Barry Allen and put Wally in his role or not?
It just seems like a waste to kill off a character who had plenty left to give, and one that probably has the widest range of emotions at that. Especially given that his time as the Flash is as much a core truth to Wally's character, as Nightwing was to Dick Grayson's character. But even IF becoming Flash was never in the cards, I still feel he could've taken up another persona.
You guys closing the door on him felt like you guys saying that he had no stories left to tell for the future beyond season 2. Which is a REALLY BITTER PILL to swallow given Wally West's rich 51 year history to draw from.
I'm not saying the death was illogical or made no sense, just that it feels like him being alive could've proven more useful in the near future than him as dead. But obviously that didn't happen. :(
By the time Impulse shows up, I don't think Wally is still all that insecure about not being as fast as Barry.
1. Lots of things were considered, at least briefly.
2. DC was willing to do this. The choice was mine and Brandon's.
Generally, ANY character is more useful dead than alive. If that were the criteria, no character would ever die.
1. What does sportsmaster think of wally, specifically him dating his daughter? Or does he just not care?
2. Over the time skip do wolf and sphere still have a special fondness for superboy over the rest of the team?
3. I thought there had to be a whole democratic assembly to choose the next leader of the justice league. Captain atom kind of just dumped it on black canary. What's up with that?
Thank you and everyone else who worked on this universe.
1. Probably doesn't care for the kid. And probably thinks Artemis is kidding herself being with a "hero".
2. Yes.
3. There had already been a vote off screen.
1. Do the boys of the Team wear underwear under their costumes?
2. Does Dick wear boxers or briefs?
3. Does Superboy wear boxers or briefs?
4. Does Tim wear boxers or briefs?
5. Is Bart Allen gay?
1-4. Let's afford them a bit of privacy, okay? (Or whatever floats your boat.)
5. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
greetings Mr Wiseman I love the show but I have to ask when it comes to the names of the Squads for the final. I have noticed that Xi, Upsilon, Chi and Phi were skipped. Is there any reason for this
It seemed to me their pronunciations would too easily be confused with other squad names.
He wants to protect the Earth from invaders. He uses a death machine to scare the inhabitants other planets. He wants humans to be the strongest species in the universe. He wants to give humans superpowers.
Vandal Savage is more of a hero than all the characters in Young Justice.
Saw the light and drank the kool-aid, I see. ;)
In Endgame. Why Captain Atom returned his leadership to Black Canary instead of Batman?
Why would it go to Batman?
Has Gar spoken to his dad since Marie passing?
Does Mark know his son is green?
Any discussion of Gar's biological father falls under the category of SPOILERS.
Sorry CN cancelled Young Justice!! I will truly miss the show! Miss Martian and Superboy are my two favorite members of the team and were my favorite couple of the series, too say I was disappointed when they broke up would be a under statement!! I was happy to see in endgame,it seemed like they could be getting back together in the future. Here my question? This is something that has been bugging me the whole second season!! Why did she do it?? Why did Miss Martian try to make Superboy forget he was mad at her for abusing her powers!! Why did she do it???
She was careless with her powers and careless of their relationship. I won't try to defend it, but I also see how she could have gotten there by taking things for granted that she shouldn't have and by letting her growing agility with her powers go to her head.
1. So its clear that impulse tried to get close to jamie to ensure he didnt turn evil. We saw him be protective of jamie when green beetle was altering his scarab and we saw him be only foucsed on saving jamie after he turned. Obviously he was doing all this to change the future, but to me this makes his friendship with jamie seem artifcial. Does impulse really consider him a close friend? Did impulse care more about the future than he did about about jamie?
2. In regards to the Reach's chain of command, the Ambassidor is the one is charge, while black beetle can take command if deemed nescessary. Where does the Scientist fit into it. What actual authority does she have, when no one actually listens to her?
3. Now i'm a little confused about the treaty between the guardians and the reach. John said that the reach may only lay claim to a world if invited and if that invitation has been revoked, they must leave. The scientist also mentioned that their tempering with the planet would violate the treay, but why? They were offically inviated to the earth and according to this treay are allowed to do whatever they want without interfercne from the green lanterns, so why exactly are they violating the treay if the only tempering they did was WHIlE they were invited? Granted they were tempering with the planet before that, but if the GLs cant prove that this was done before they got their inviation or lost it, why then is it a violation?
1. How something begins and how it evolves are two separate things.
2. She has authority over the other scientists on that particular Reach Mission. She has no operational authority.
3. They tampered PRIOR to being invited, which is a clear violation. And there was plenty of proof by the end of the season. For example: Blue Beetle.
Hi, Greg,
A wired question, it's inspired by a question about Beast Boy I just saw here.
It ask if BB can transform into a panda. Of course he can.
but then I can't help thinking:
You know all animals beast boy transformed into are GREEN. So when he transforms into a panda, what is the color exactly? Green and Black? White and Green? Light Green as the white part and dark green as the black part?
That's a bit funny when a panda is not black and white. It would looks like a green bear if so.
Sorry really wired question but I find it's funny to think about it (Or my humor sense is really twisted.)
I'd think light green and very dark green bordering on black.
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