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Angela
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Sam writes...
I have a few questions about Demona one of my favorite characters in the show and the one I pity most.
1) How much money does Demona have?
2) Does she know Thailog is still alive by hunters moon?
3) What is her position in Nightstone Unlimited before and after Thailog’s betrayal?
4) What was her real reaction to learning who Angela was?
Greg responds...
1. Quite a bit.
2. I'm not sure she ever took it for granted that he was dead.
3. Dominique Destine was co-C.E.O. with Alexander Thailog.
4. I'll leave that to your imagination ... for now.
Todd Jensen writes...
New thoughts and observations on "Possession", which I also rewatched on DVD today.
Coldfire and Coldsteel's bodies are initially covered by cloths; while it serves the function of keeping their nature secret from the audience at first, it also does a good job of echoing the "Frankenstein" tone of Coldstone's introduction in "Re-Awakening".
When Goliath and Hudson return to the clock tower from patrol, Hudson initially says "lads" - and just that, with no mention that there should be a "lass" among them as well. We get an echo of this, I recall, in "Hunter's Moon Part One" when he addresses the clan as "lads", then remembers Angela and adds "lass" in; this moment brought that scene to mind.
Coldstone's line near the end about how "we truly lived again" echoed Goliath's "we live again" words in the opening narration, though I don't know if it was intentional.
Greg responds...
It's a pretty safe bet that most everything is intentional. (Or that I will intentionally take credit for it.) But seriously, we were very aware of pushing call back moments throughout. I do that on every series I produce.
Todd Jensen writes...
I watched "Turf" on DVD yesterday as well, but don't have anything new to say about it, so my new thoughts on "The Reckoning", which I watched with "Possession" on DVD today.
In Act I, Hudson warns Angela that her mother "is capable of anything". Angela later uses those exact words when confronting Demona in Act III.
Elisa gets bitten by a mosquito while in the Labyrinth; I wonder if that was the moment when Sevarius and Thailog acquired her DNA for Delilah; it'd certainly be a "playing fair with the audience" moment.
While Demona professes outrage over Angela's claim to be her daughter, her eyes aren't glowing red - and later we learn that she'd known Angela to be her daughter all along. The "eyes not glowing red" part makes a good hint to the audience that she was feigning anger and disbelief.
Greg responds...
That mosquito is exactly when Elisa's DNA was taken for later use in creating Delilah.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "The New Olympians" on DVD today.
Continuing the "hunting" theme in "Gargoyles" that I've paid closer attention to this time around, I noticed that Ekidne described the New Olympians' ancestors as "hunted". (I also spotted a New Olympian extra who looked a lot like traditional depictions of Artemis/Diana, the goddess of the hunt - though I think I'm reading too much into that.)
Goliath's words to Angela about how they cannot wage war on an entire city remind me of his words to Demona in "Awakening Part Five" of how he cannot wage war upon an entire world.
Greg responds...
Also intentional. I love those kinds of callbacks.
Exel writes...
hello i couldnt find this question and im not sure if you even log onto this site anymore but oh well
when making Gargoyles I've heard you had some regrets with broadways relationship with angela is that true?
Greg responds...
No. Never. Where did you hear that?
And it took me long enough, granted, but ASK GREG back!
Derek writes...
Am I missing anyone or adding someone incorrectly? So far Sevarius has the DNA of the following?
Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Broadway, Bronx, Lexington, Eliza, Hudson, Yama, Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Talon, Maggie, Fang, Claw, Wolf, Demona, Nessie, Deiliah (Mix)?
Greg responds...
It's been a while since I saw the episodes. I guess he has Delilah, but then if you're including her, he'd also have Thailog, Burbank, Hollywood, Brentwood and Malibu. I guess he probably has Maggie, Fang, Claw and Wolf. But then I imagine he has Erin, Benny, Thug and Tasha, too.
Brian D writes...
Hi Greg I watched Season 2 of Gargoyles recently and I am left thinking about one character at the end of Hunter's Moon. I'm hoping you can help me with.
Low and behold Demona wants to kill the humans again. This time with a biological planetwide human killing virus and protect the Gargoyles from the virus with some sort of gargoyle magic statue.
There's two problems I saw with the plan.
One Demona herself is human in the day which means when the sun rises the virus would likely kill her. Which means she'll die every couple minutes while the sun is up due to her immortality.
Two even if her being a gargoyle at night protects her from the virus. It will do nothing to protect MacBeth who will die by her hand and as a result kill her for good with him wouldn't it?
As I was watching the episodes I thought they were problems with the plan until the very end where Demona once again flies off alone.
Is it really a problem with the plan, did she have everything covered, or did the destruction of her relationship with Angela break Demona to a point that she didn't care as long as she made a 'better' world for her race?
Greg responds...
In her mind, she had all the bases covered. But with Demona, if there's an element of self-destruction inherent to her plans, that should come as no surprise.
Vader12 writes...
In Gargoyles episode, Heritage, in the scene where the illusionary gargoyles attack Thunderbird Form Grandmother, was the raven headed gargoyle among them a illusional version of Raven's gargoyle form too or was it the real version of him when Angela saw they were fake?
Greg responds...
It's been a while since I last saw the episode, but I believe he was real.
EXALT writes...
I've recently rewatched Awakening, and the scene where Goliath tells Demona that she can't kill an enemy unless it is "in the heat of battle" sparked a question in me: as of Phoenix, which members of the Manhattan Clan have actually killed someone?
Greg responds...
Most have, in battle, in the tenth century. Angela hasn't. Egwardo hasn't. Nashville hasn't. Maybe Lex & Broadway haven't. But that seems unlikely/unrealistic.
Oh, and if you're counting her, Elisa hasn't.
Matthew writes...
I had a random question based on a question I saw about the Goliath/Demona/Angela parentage issue in "Sanctuary."
I just thought of this theory that maybe part of the reason why Goliath was resistant to telling Angela about Demona was because he was hurt over the end of his relationship with her, and having seen how she changed. So, he may, at least somewhere in his mind, have wanted to forget about her.
Do you think that may have been the case, not just his "Gargoyle Way" position?
Greg responds...
If that works for you, I'm not going to object.
Ada writes...
I was just rewatching Season 2 of Gargoyles and I noticed something...Angela and Demona's name. Angela=Angel, Demona=Demon. The names do fit the mother and daughter duo's personalities, but I am wondering whether or not this a coinendence that their names were set up this way.
P.S. Reading through your responses regarding people's questions on the Gargoyles, you keep saying, "No Spoilers." So, are you planning in the near future to continue writing about the Gargoyles in the comics? I hope so, because I am so looking forward to it! :D
Greg responds...
Of course, it was set up that way.
P.S. I hope so.
J writes...
Hello Greg,
I have a question about the Avalon Clan and their biological relationships to the Manhattan Clan. I am going to use the "placeholder names" for those Gargs that don't have given names in cannon.
Can we assume that Hudson does not have any biological children there because Hyppolyta, Broadway, and True are his only three offspring?
You've mentioned before that Angela is the only biological child of Goliath's, and she is no longer there, so none for him either.
Brooklyn had at least one brother, Brooksbro...was he and older or younger brother? If older, then there is a potential for him to have a biological sibling on Avelon...is that the case?
Does Lexington have a younger biological sibling on Avelon?
Does Bronx?
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. Yep.
3. Brooksbro is older. (But Brooklyn had MANY brothers and sisters. Stop thinking like a human.)
4. No comment on whether or not Brooklyn has a younger biological sibling among the Avalon clan.
5. No comment.
6. No comment.
Micey writes...
I read the gargoyles wiki on how they only have one mate for life but I couldn't find anything about how they actually chose their mates. Is it like a human and they just chose their mate by courting and falling in love with that gargoyle or does it have to do with certain things, like the horns, wing size, color, etc.?
Greg responds...
Attraction plays into things, of course. But you saw how Angela and Broadway got together, and there are no RULES, per se.
Anonymous writes...
my question must have gotten deleted last time i asked this, because i cant find it anywhere. it was part of a post with a bunch of questions, but this one is the only one i really want to know about, so i hope this one wasnt the one that made it not go through
after his journey through time, does Brooklyn still consider himself a rookery brother to Lexington and Broadway?
also, since he is a generation older than Goliath, does he still consider himself his rookery son?
would he now technically be a rookery uncle to any or all three of them, and Angela?
if so, how does he view his relationship to Hudson, since they cant technically be rookery brothers? (like cousins mabey?)
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. He never did, so no.
3. No.
4. He still sees Hudson as a mentor/father/grandfatherly figure.
EXALT writes...
1)Does Angela know the role that Demona played in the Wyvern Massacre?
2)Does Demona think that Angela is more, let's say, justified in her position about humans because she was raised and therefore "corrupted" by them?
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. No.
Greg Bishansky writes...
I know why you and Greg Guler changed her outfit, but in-universe what were Angela's reasons for changing her outfit? Demona's been wearing the same exact style for over a thousand years and we never saw any other gargoyles change their clothes. Una and Leo were wearing the same outfits in 1940... or the same style.
Yes, I realize that new character models are expensive, just wondering why Angela herself chose to change.
Greg responds...
Um... the fact is that in a comic, we have a lot more freedom than in a cartoon, so we made use of it. Even giving Elisa the occasional change of clothes. In Universe, perhaps the fact that she was raised by humans influenced her more than the other gargoyles.
Anonymous writes...
How does Angela currently feel about Demona? She was devastated at the end of "The Reckoning" when she thought Demona was dead, but the next time she saw her, Demona almost destroyed all life on Earth. Does she still feel bad about the "I hate you" or does she think it was justified now?
Greg responds...
I'm sure her feelings are quite complex. But I'll leave anything more specific either to your interpretation or to future stories.
Derek writes...
You mentioned that Angela was raised christan, to an extent anyway by Katherine but was not necessarily bapitised.
I read a book about "monsters" in medieval art and apparently St Augustine claimed that even "monsters" were worthy of salvation but only if they were descended from man. Apparently Augustine's comments were very important to missionaries and their work. Could this have been a reason that Katherine didn't bapitise the Gargoyles as they weren't descended from man? Or was it a more literal, no priest on Avalon king of thing?
Greg responds...
I'd have to do some research, I guess.
Anonymous writes...
1 - Were Angela and Broadway still virgins by the time of "Phoenix?"
2 - Goliath and Demona became mates during "Vows", did they lose their virginity that night?
Greg responds...
1. No.
2. Yes.
(Both of these are canon-in-training answers, of course.)
Anonymous writes...
If Gargoyles comes back as a show or a comic, will Angela keep the new outfit or go back to the old one?
Greg responds...
Most likely, she'll stick with the new one for the time being.
Greg Bishansky writes...
You've said in the past that gargoyles follow a vague religion that is both monotheistic and pantheistic, and that at present Coldfire would be the most interested in it. What are Demona's spiritual viewpoints? Was she ever a "believer." Is she still one, or is she lapsed? The closest we've ever gotten was her not considering a Wind Ceremony for her smashed clan a priority in "Tyrants."
For that matter, what are Angela's spiritual beliefs? She was raised by humans after all.
Greg responds...
I think Demona is probably lapsed - or at least inattentive.
I don't think Angela knows too much about the Gargoyle Way. I do think she was raised with medieval Christian values, without necessarily being baptized a Christian.
brooklynfan21 writes...
Hi Greg, I've been a long time fan and have never had the opportunity to ask this question, but it's a question that I've had since I watched the series in its initial run. Why did Broadway ever end up with Angela? Was it a decision by a particular writer, a shift in the creative team, or something else? Brooklyn seemed to be the logical choice do to fan base, role as second in command, and overall use in stories. In episodes like "The Gathering Part II" and "Turf" Brooklyn seemed to be building a relationship (even a very small one) with Angela. Broadway seemed like the last possible gargoyle to end up with Angela (totally discounting Lex there). And yet he did end up with Angela. I guess this long rant has one simple question behind it, why not Brooklyn?
Greg responds...
Our plan was ALWAYS to pair her with Broadway. ALWAYS. It seemed right to us for all characters involved. For more details - CHECK THE ARCHIVES, as I've answered this over and over again.
Billybob writes...
Soo... did the group dynamics of young justice resemble gargoyles by accident like maybe you didn't realize you were writing them that way. I mean robin is cleary the lexington of the group the smallest and the smartest, and aqualad has goliaths role as the mature leader. And the boys reaction to seeing miss martian for the first time was pretty much the same as the trios to meeting Angela. (who was also new to the city the same way miss martian is new to the planet.)
Greg responds...
Uh... gee, when you put it that way, it all seems pretty unoriginal. But I don't actually think your parallels go much beyond the few surface characteristics you've listed. (I mean is Kid Flash supposed to be in any real way like Broadway because they both like food?)
Keep watching and let me know...
Oh, and no, no parallelism was intended.
John Derrick writes...
I hate to say it, but I was extremely disappointed in the Young Justice premiere. Don't get me wrong--the animation was gorgeous, the dialogue entertaining, the story intriguing. But the gender imbalance was a huge turn-off for me.
Why was it that the women of the Justice League were only shown in the last five minutes of a two-part pilot? Why did the male sidekicks get to go on a rebellious adventure and force the League to accept them as a team of their own, while the first girl is only added to "Young Justice" at the very end, introduced by her uncle and guardian like some sort of token?
I expect that the women will have a lot more to do in the episodes to come, but I still find it profoundly problematic to introduce the characters in such an unequal manner. I believe there are too many men in the world as it is who see women as mere supporting players in their stories. Why reinforce this stereotype for a whole new generation of superhero cartoon fans?
Greg responds...
It's a legitimate gripe. And I doubt my answer will satisfy you, but it came down to a couple factors that we at least found important: (1) practicality and to a lesser extent - but intertwined with - (2) tradition.
Let's start with practicality.
You asked why there were no female Leaguers until the end. But where would they have fit? There are no female Leaguers with traditional first generation sidekicks. So Batman, Green Arrow, Aquaman and Flash could not be replaced by Wonder Woman, Black Canary or Hawkwoman. That leaves the four Leaguers introduced at the Hall of Justice. I needed Martian Manhunter to be there to set up Miss Martian. I needed Red Tornado there to set up his interest in the teens. I needed Superman there to set up Superboy. That leaves only Zatara. He was certainly replaceable. But then I would have had to hire another voice actress to read ONE LINE. I couldn't afford to do that. We have budgets. (And you'll notice that Red Tornado never speaks in the episode. Couldn't afford giving him a line either. None of which had anything to do with gender.)
There was NEVER any intent to introduce Artemis this early in the season for story reasons. Wouldn't make sense for her character. And I think the reasons why will become clear as the season progresses.
As for Miss Martian, yes, in theory, we could have introduced her sooner. Manhunter COULD have brought her along at the beginning. But then I'd have had FOUR characters running around the first half hour and FIVE in the second. That steals screen time and characterization from everyone. I think the entire production would have been weaker for adding another character -- ANY other character (gender notwithstanding).
Of course, that begs the obvious question - why not ditch one of the boys in favor of her to create a little balance.
But it seemed to us that would create balance at a cost.
There are FOUR TRADITIONAL sidekicks: Robin, Speedy, Aqualad and Kid Flash. To leave one out seemed wrong to us. Which brings in the Tradition argument, which I'll admit is somewhat feeble, but as an old comic book geek, I'll also admit it matters to me and to everyone else here.
The very first Teen Titans story ever in Brave and the Bold featured only THREE heroes: Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash. Wonder Girl did not join until their second adventure. So we felt there was a precedent for beginning with Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash and saving the real introduction of Miss Martian (beyond hellos) for OUR second adventure.
For what it's worth, if you give the series another chance, starting with episode three (i.e. the one immediately following the pilot "movie"), I think you'll see that female characters including Miss Martian, Black Canary, Artemis, Wonder Woman and MANY others will be playing ESSENTIAL roles in the show as we progress. I think the balance - and then some - is absolutely present in the first season when viewed in its entirety.
Yes, the pilot was very boy-centric, but that's not the rubric for the series. Personally, I love writing female characters, and if you're at all familiar with my past work, you'll know I have a history of doing them justice. (At least, I think so.) Gargoyles, for example, is FULL of strong female characters, including Elisa, Demona, Angela, Fox, etc. WITCH was nearly ALL female leads. Even Spider-Man had a strong female supporting cast, in my opinion at least.
If we did "reinforce a stereotype" (which I think is overstating it) then perhaps we've lured in kids that we will reeducate over the course of the season - organically without forcing it.
So I'd beg a little patience, a little indulgence... maybe even a little trust that we'll do right by this issue.
But judge for yourself.
Dragomir writes...
Greetings Greg,
I've read that Angela and Broadway will/would eventually have three hatchlings of their own at some point in their future. Now, while I am VERY happy for the two lovebirds, I can't help but wonder if their different upbringings and views on parentage & child raising would prove an issue for them. I mean, Broadway was raised in the traditional Gargoyle way and never knew who his actual biological parents were, nor showed any interest in learning who they were, & I've even read that if he ever did find out Hudson is his dad it wouldn't really change anything between them (which is the norm for most garg clans). However, Angela was raised by humans and cares very much about her blood ties with Goliath & Demona, wanting her father to acknowledge their bond & rejoicing once he does & over time their bond deepens, & wishing to bring Demona back into the light because of her connection to her despite being aware of her dark & troubled nature. I guess what I'm saying is, Angela strikes me as someone who'd want to raise her children personally & form a strong mother/child bond with them whereas Broadway would likely treat them the same way any gargoyle of an older generation would treat those of a younger generation. So I guess my question is, would Angela's & Broadway's different upbringings cause some problems for them in their relationship & in raising their hatchlings? Or would Angela convince Broadway to form a real parental bond with the kids as Goliath has formed with her? I can't really see Angela NOT making her blood ties known to her kids while Broadway just keeps quiet about it. Hope my questions make sense, this is my first time doing this, & thankyou for your time.
Greg responds...
Probably fewer problems than you think. They'd BOTH still behave as parents to all eggs hatched. How is that going to differ between them?
In any case, these are issues that will hopefully be explored in the years to come.
Night Angel writes...
Hi Greg I'm sure you've heard this plenty of times but I am a huge fan of the gargoyles!! One day I'm hoping to become a film editor in the future, maybe even own my own movie set! So if your ever looking for an editor sometime in the future look me up, I would love to work with you! Also I been searching and I wasn't able to find this question so I hope you haven't been asked this yet. But I've always wondered I know it obvious that Elisa and Goliath will end up being together some how, but how does Angela feel about Elisa as possibly becoming a future step mom? Would she see her in that way?
Greg responds...
I have answered this before, so you might check the archives for more detail, but basically Angela views Elisa as an older sister. That wouldn't change. But if you've read the comics, you know Angela ALREADY considers Elisa to be Goliath's mate (more or less).
Richard Jackson writes...
Hi Greg,
Okay, I consider this the anti "What did Titania whisper in Fox's ear?" question.
In "Ill Met By Moonlight", towards the end, Oberon can be seen in the background talking to Angela while Tom the Guardian stands nearby. His lips are animated as moving, but we can't hear what he says, because the focus is on Goliath and Titania in the foreground discussing Oberon's trustworthiness.
My question is: What was Oberon saying to Angela?
If you wish to review, here is the clip. From approx. 5:25-5:29. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmHmG0cylg
Greg responds...
Hah! Damn good question! Sharp eyes, Richard!
And I have no idea. I'd have to think about it. Pleasantries, probably, but...
Greg Bishansky writes...
I think we may have discussed this at a Gathering once, so forgive me.
We all know Demona holds Angela in a much higher regard than she has held anyone in, well, a very long time. Does the biological connection matter to her? I almost wonder if she would have gone through the trouble to turn Gabriel or Ophelia if either of them left Avalon with Goliath instead.
She did pause briefly in "Avalon Part Three" when Goliath pointed out that she was pointing a gun at her own children, after all.
But then, Demona has always been atypical of most gargoyles.
Greg responds...
I think the biological connection does matter to her (though she'd never admit it). She's so human that way.
Matt writes...
Hey Greg.
So a few years back we had talked about the two other beasts on Avalon (besides Boudicca) and how they are male and female and mates. We seemed to come to the conclusion that if the math is correct they should have already mated and laid an egg as of 1996, though it has not hatched yet. I believe you agreed the math worked out correctly, but didn't commit to the idea that this had actually occurred and put it tentatively in the canon-in-training category (which is how it continues to be labeled on the GargWiki).
I just want to get some confirmation from you that this has not happened after all. Since Angela commented in "Phoenix" that she had never seen a gargoyle egg before, I suppose the two beasts on Avalon have yet to parent one, right?
Also, as a side note, I find it interesting that during the time spent at Ishimura and ChacIxChel (and to a lesser extent London since Goliath and Co probably didn't visit Knight's Spur), Angela never got a peak of the Ishimuran or Mayan rookeries. Is this something private to a clan and not something they'd put on the tour or did it just not come up due to lack of time or whatnot?
Thanks, Greg!
Greg responds...
Hmmm...
The latter question is easier to answer. I don't think there was time for Angela to see a rookery. And it didn't occur to her to ask for a special tour.
The former question... I guess she hasn't seen one.
TZ writes...
Another question...
When Elisa told (or admitted, however you want to look at it) Angela that it was true that Demona was her mother at the end of Sanctuary, was Goliath angry with her? Did they discuss it at all later or did he just let it go? Was he actually relieved to not have to be the one to tell Angela?
Greg responds...
I'm sure he was angry, but she probably convinced him of the obvious: (a) it was obvious and (b) it would have come out eventually and it was better coming from them then from Demona herself. Goliath would have grumbled at first, but known she was right.
Random Fan writes...
Hey there again. I have'nt found this so I'm asking. Is Demona so emotionaly attached to Angeala because shes HER daughter or because shes one of her rookery children. It seems like she values the biologic conection, and if thats true then it seems like a hipocrocy to be so bent on the "true" gargoyle and then do something so human, but thats just my misguided oppinion. If you could do something to guide it that would be most helpfull, thanks.
Greg responds...
I'm going to stick with "All of the Above" at this point.
Clark Cradic writes...
Have Angela, the Trio, and Bronx ever killed someone? I don't mean like in the show, but back in the 10th Century? With Hudson, Goliath, and Demona being as battle hardened as they are it's sort of obvious they've done the deed, but I've always been curious to the younger members of the clan.
Greg responds...
Well, not Angela. But I think it's very possible that Bronx and/or the Trio might have. And almost definite that Brooklyn did at Rathveramoen.
Greg Bishansky writes...
You know, normally I don't do this, but this recent answer about Xanatos and Norman Osborn tickled me on a fanboy level:
"I think he would have been appalled at Norman's parental approach. He'd of course have to admire his business acumen and respect his machiavellian bent. But I find it hard to imagine the two has friends. "
The comparisons between Xanatos and Osborn are obviously easy. But comparing and contrasting Demona and Osborn seems to intrigue me a little more... especially on a parental level.
Now, I don't think it's a stretch to say that both of them love their children... albeit in a twisted, almost possessive way.
This is almost tough since we've gotten really only one episode of Demona and Angela ("The Reckoning") and several episodes of Norman and Harry... not to mention forty three years of comic books delving into them. But, for now, I think I'll stick to "Spectacular" in this topic.
Up front, one key difference is that Demona never got to be a parent. She met Angela for the first time when Angela was already an adult. Contrary to Norman, who raised Harry since birth but was never a good father to him.
Both Norman and Demona are willing to commit unspeakably horrible acts and rationalize them by saying they're in their children's best interests. In Demona's case, she cited protecting Angela in "Hunter's Moon Part Three" and Norman justified framing Harry because if he'd been sent to prison, who'd have made a man out of Harry.
Would Demona risk herself to protect Angela? We know she would. We've seen her do it. Would Norman risk his life to protect Harry? In the current comics, the answer is definitely no. In SSM, I'm... not sure. I'm really not.
I tend to think that both of them see their respective children as property. There are several instances of Norman treating Harry like property. And Demona did use the phrase "she belongs to me" when Thailog threatened Angela.
I definitely think Demona loves Angela more than Norman loves Harry (Hell, Norman doesn't even like his own kid). But even there, Demona was more than willing to risk Angela's life at the end of "Hunter's Moon Part Three" to escape... there was no guarantee Goliath would have been able to catch that vial.
Now, I realize I'm answering a lot of my own questions and I have my own interpretations here, but I'd be curious to read your thoughts here?
Greg responds...
It still feels a bit like Apples and Oranges to me. Let's face it: Demona is really f***'d up. Norman isn't. He knows his options and is doing exactly what he wants, is being exactly who he wants to be.
As for parenting, Norman rationalizes... a little. Demona's entire life is a rationalization, with Angela being only a part. If Angela could meet the Demona that Demona and Goliath met in "Vows", we might see a very different dynamic. But at best now, D's playing catch-up.
G2009 Radio Play
G2009 Radio Play - Act Two
BIG MAN STANDS.
247. NARRATOR
Act Two. The Big Man of Crime enters his offices, but finds he’s not alone…
248. BIG MAN
You spend so much time here, I’ll need to buy you your own chair. So you’ll stay out of mine.
Green Goblin STANDS.
249. GREEN GOBLIN
Surprised to see me?
250. BIG MAN
Not particularly.
251. GREEN GOBLIN
Then you won’t be surprised to learn I’m still running things…
252. BIG MAN
If you can run them from a hospital bed…
253. NARRATOR
Catching Gobby off guard, Lincoln punches him right through the window…
254. GREEN GOBLIN
<impact grunt>
255. NARRATOR
The goblin-glider swoops in and catches the Goblin, who pulls out a Pumpkin Bomb.
PUMPKIN BOMB STANDS.
256. GREEN GOBLIN
Ever the gracious host. And ever the gracious guest, the Goblin must show his appreciation. Here. I brought a gift.
257. NARRATOR
Gobby throws his “giftâ€, but Goliath swoops in, catches it and throws it back.
Goliath and Spider-Man STAND.
258. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
259. GREEN GOBLIN
<impact>
260. NARRATOR
Not far away…
261. SPIDER-MAN
No, no, no, no, no… I was hoping I’d never hear that trademark Pumpkin Bomb shriek again…
262. NARRATOR
Spidey swings in to find Goliath and a recovering Gobby together…
263. SPIDER-MAN
So that’s what these gargoyles are… more of the Goblin’s Halloween creations…
264. NARRATOR
Spidey swings into action against Goliath.
265. GOLIATH, SPIDER-MAN
<ad-lib battle sounds>
266. GOLIATH
The Bugle was right about you: you are a threat and a menace!
267. SPIDER-MAN
Wait, you can talk? And read?! And what you read is the Jolly One’s editorials?!
268. GREEN GOBLIN
I know I should assassinate Mr. Lincoln. But I’m so enjoying the show. Really, someone should make more Gargoyles. I know: I’ll call Walt Disney.
Green Goblin, Spider-Man, Goliath, Pumpkin Bomb and Big Man sit. ANGELA, BROOKLYN, BROADWAY and LEXINGTON STAND.
269. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, atop the Eyrie Building, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway watch Angela playing with Brooklyn’s son Nashville…
270. ANGELA
That’s great, Nashville. This time try the axe…
271. BROADWAY
Wow, Angela looks so adorable playing with Gnash. I mean, Gnash is cute too…
272. BROOKLYN
Thanks. I know he hatched in another decade, but Katana and I discussed it, and we want the whole clan to be Gnash and Egwardo’s Rookery parents…
273. BROADWAY
We’d be honored…
274. LEXINGTON
I still can’t quite take it all in. I go to Britain for a few weeks, and everything changes…
275. BROADWAY
At least you were gone for weeks. Try adjusting in forty seconds.
276. BROOKLYN
Hey, I had forty years to get ready for this, and it’s still strange…
277. LEXINGTON
But, dude. You’re so… old.
278. BROOKLYN
Thanks.
279. LEXINGTON
Older than Goliath.
280. BROOKLYN
Yeah.
281. LEXINGTON
Almost Hudson’s age.
282. BROOKLYN
I get it. I’m old.
283. LEXINGTON
It’s not that. Everything about you is different.
284. BROOKLYN
Oh, come on…
285. BROADWAY
No, he’s right. The way you talk. The way you move. All those weapons you carry now. It’s like you’ve outgrown us.
286. BROOKLYN
That’s not fair. I can’t tell you how much I missed you both.
287. LEXINGTON
We get that. And we’re not mad. But…
288. BROOKLYN
Look, this isn’t all on me. As I recall, things were already changing. Broadway spent all his time with Angela.
289. BROADWAY
Not all my time.
290. LEXINGTON
Uh… pretty much.
291. BROADWAY
Yeah, well, you’re practically on the internet non-stop.
292. LEXINGTON
It’s addictive! Do you know they have porn on that thing? There’s this one website, Blue Mug Prodâ€"
293. BROOKLYN
I don’t wanna know. The point is we’ve all gone through some changes. That’s just life.
294. BROADWAY
I guess our Three Musketeer days are over…
295. LEXINGTON
Yeah…
Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
296. ZAFIRO
Gargoyles of Manhattan!
297. OBSIDIANA
We need you’re help!
298. NARRATOR
At just that moment, the sun rises, turning Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Angela and Gnash to stone. Obsidiana and Zafiro are unaffected, thanks to their mystic Mayan pendants.
299. ZAFIRO
Mierda.
300. OBSIDIANA
Nuestro cronometraje apesta hoy.
Obsidiana, Zafiro, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Angela sit. Spider-Man, Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
301. NARRATOR
Across town, Goliath also turns to stone.
302. SPIDER-MAN
What the heck?!
303. GREEN GOBLIN
Well, that was… unexpected.
304. SPIDER-MAN
All right, that’s enough. I know you’re not the real Gobby.
305. GREEN GOBLIN
Yes, yes, “It’s not the voice; it’s the words. Not the tech, but the moves.†I’ve heard it all before…
306. SPIDER-MAN
Then I know exactly who you really are: Chameleon!
307. GREEN GOBLIN
That would ease your conscience, wouldn’t it? To think I’m Chameleon â€" and not the ghost of the man you killed!
308. SPIDER-MAN
I don’t believe in ghosts.
309. GREEN GOBLIN
Then maybe you’d prefer I was the Spawn of Goblin.
310. SPIDER-MAN
Oh, you’d just love to shift the blame to Harry. Sorry, Gobby â€" I mean, Chammy â€" but we’ve been there, done that. Besides, no matter who you are, there hasn’t been time for the Globulin Green to kick in and truly Goblify you. So I’m gonna take you down now while you’re still just a cheap imitation.
311. GREEN GOBLIN
You could do that… or you could save stoneface over there.
312. NARRATOR
Gobby throws a pumpkin bomb at Goliath. Instinctively, Spidey webs it away…
313. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
Pumpkin Bomb and Green Goblin sit.
314. NARRATOR
By which time, the Goblin is gone, leaving a confused Spidey perched on Goliath’s head…
315. SPIDER-MAN
So in hindsight, I’m thinking maybe you weren’t part of the Gob-Squad, right?
(beat)
Fine. Stonewall me.
May STANDS.
316. NARRATOR
That morning in Forest Hills, Spidey sneaks in through his bedroom window, hoping to catch a few Zs.
317. MAY
Peter, are you awake.
318. PETER
Uh, sure Aunt May. Just getting dressed.
319. MAY
Well, hurry up. I’m… “conferencing†with all the other parents.
Robbie, ROSIE THOMPSON and George STAND.
320. ROBBIE
Are you sure you don’t mind, Mrs. Parker? Cuz I gotta say, what you’re proposing would be my worst nightmare.
321. MAY
<laughs> Oh, I don’t believe that for a minute, Mr. Robertson. It’s a joy to be around Peter and his friends. And I won’t be alone. Anna Watson and Mrs. Osborn will be with me.
322. ROSIE
Emily? She’s so… odd. I don’t think she’s ever said one word to me…
323. MAY
Well, I don’t know her very well, Rosie, but Harry is Peter’s best friend â€" no offense to your Eugene â€" so she must be doing something right.
324. ROSIE
May, you never change. Always seeing the best in people.
325. MAY
I’ll take that as a compliment, dear girl.
326. GEORGE
In any case, I’m glad to get Gwen out of Manhattan for a few days. The streets are looking pretty grim right about now.
327. MAY
Oh, I’m sure your officers will have things under control in no time.
328. PETER
Aunt May, what’s going on?
329. MAY
Oh, didn’t I tell you, Peter. I’m chaperoning your trip to Miami Beach!
330. PETER
Wow. Great.
Peter, May, George, Rosie and Robbie sit. Big Man and Dominique STAND.
331. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, back at L. Thompson Lincoln’s office…
332. BIG MAN
And how can I be of help, Ms. Destine.
333. DOMINIQUE
I think I can help you, Mr. Lincoln.
334. BIG MAN
What makes you think I need any help?
335. DOMINIQUE
Oh, little things. The shattered window, that unusual statue on the ledge outside…
336. BIG MAN
Point taken. How about you cut to the chase?
337. DOMINIQUE
Fine. Tony Dracon. Tomas Brod. Silvio Manfredi. All in jail. Hammerhead. Sable Manfredi. On the run. This gives you a unique opportunity to reclaim what was lost.
338. BIG MAN
I’m sure L. Thompson Lincoln has no idea what you’re talking about. But go on…
339. DOMINIQUE
You have three problems. Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus and the government watching your every move.
340. BIG MAN
And you have the solution…
341. DOMINIQUE
I have the manpower. Three… “super-villains†to take down the competition and Dominic Dracon to use as a figurehead.
342. BIG MAN
The old man? I heard he was shy a few brain cells.
343. DOMINIQUE
It’s easy enough to spread the word he was faking insanity to avoid prosecution. And easy enough to assign him a keeper. Meanwhile, he’s a Dracon. And that name still carries weight, I believe.
344. BIG MAN
It does. But what would you want in exchange?
345. DOMINIQUE
Nothing extraordinary. Just the services of the Tinkerer.
346. BIG MAN
I believe that can be arranged.
347. DOMINIQUE
Lovely. But let’s not allow the moss to gather. You’ll want to move fast. Before the Octopus retrieves his arms…
Dominique and Big Man sit. SILVER SPOON MANAGER, Vulture, DOCTOR OCTOPUS and Electro STAND.
348. NARRATOR
The weather has turned cold. At the Silver Spoon, three men in trench coats and hats wait for their coffee.
349. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Sixty-nine!
350. VULTURE
Yes. Here.
351. NARRATOR
Vulture sits down with Electro and Doctor Octopus.
352. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Thank you, Adrian. Now. My arms?
353. VULTURE
In an OsCorp vault.
354. ELECTRO
At Rykers?!
355. VULTURE
<shhhhh> Not THE Vault. A vault. Still very high security, and the police are bound to expect our arrival, but…
356. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed. <sigh> OsCorp. Even in death, Norman Osborn torments me. But it cannot be helped. I must have my arms. We go in under cover of darkness tonight.
Doctor Octopus, Vulture and Electro sit. Silver Spoon Manager remains standing. Peter and Mary Jane STAND.
357. NARRATOR
The three men exit through one door. Two teenagers enter through another.
358. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy!
359. MARY JANE
Try to understand, Tiger. I just can’t do that to Gwen. She’s really become my best friend at Midtown.
360. PETER
But it’s not like we’d be making out or anything, right? Uh, right?
361. MARY JANE
Right.
362. PETER
Right, right. We’d be going as friends. Hanging out when the couples were … you know, coupling.
363. MARY JANE
And that would be great. But look at it from her point of view. She took all the risks, and you still wound up with Liz. There’s no way, she’d see me as anything but a threat. Wait, that sounded really conceited.
364. PETER
Have you looked in a mirror? Not conceited. Just fact.
365. MARY JANE
Ooh, nice one. Such a player.
366. PETER
Yeah, right. The world’s loneliest player.
367. MARY JANE
Stop it. I know you don’t want to hurt Gwen either. Not after all the two of you have been through.
368. PETER
Yeah… I wonder if Ms. Brant likes Miami. Kidding, kidding… Wow, pretty good. That was practically the Look.
369. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy-One!
SEYMOUR O’REILLY stands.
370. PETER
So you’re just not going?
371. MARY JANE
Oh, I’m going. It’s 48 degrees outside and 82 in Miami. I asked Tiny to be my plus one.
372. PETER
Tiny?! Tiny McKeever?! The guy’s got the brain of an amoeba. He makes King Kong look like a genius. Hell, he makes Flash look like Stephen Hawking!
373. MARY JANE
(shrugs)
He’s cute.
374. PETER
<argggh> I just wish I could skip the whole thing. But Aunt May’s going, and after her heart attack, I really think she could use some fun in the sun--
375. SEYMOUR
Sorry to interrupt. Couldn’t help overhearing.
376. PETER
Oh, hey, Seymour.
377. SEYMOUR
Just wanted to let you know Harry invited me too. And I’m totally going stag. I mean who wants a ball and chain when Miami Beach is full of hotties, right?
378. PETER
Uh…
379. SEYMOUR
Just don’t expect to hang out, okay. You’d fully cramp my style.
380. PETER
Of course I would…
381. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy-two!!
Silver Spoon Manager, Peter, Seymour and Mary Jane sit. Dominique and TINKERER STAND.
382. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, the Tinkerer arrives at the Destine Mansion…
383. DOMINIQUE
You have the devices?
384. TINKERER
Five was all I could put together on short notice. Unless you want to bring Mysterio in…?
385. DOMINIQUE
Our stage is crowded enough. And five should do quite nicely.
Dominique and Tinkerer sit. May, Mary Jane, GREG BISHANSKY, Sally, Gwen, Harry, Kong, Rand, Flash, Liz, Jason, Peter and Seymour STAND.
386. NARRATOR
Later that afternoon, Harry’s rented a party bus, and the gang is en route to the airport, stuck in heavy traffic on the expressway. A very prepared May Parker has a clipboard…
387. MAY
All right, we have three adults and sixteen children â€" sorry, sixteen teenagers. That’s nineteen sojourners bound for Florida. So why did my headcount come to twenty?
388. MARY JANE
I think you counted the bus driver, Mrs. Parker.
389. MAY
Oh, that I did.
390. BISHANSKY
Hey, twist my arm! I’ll go to Miami with you guys!!
391. SALLY
Was anyone talking to you?
392. BISHANSKY
Uh… no.
393. SALLY
Then eyes front.
394. BISHANSKY
Eyes front.
395. GWEN
Harry, are you all right?
396. HARRY
I dunno. All this stopping and starting. My stomach’s a little queasy…
397. KONG
Dude. Does this bus rock or what?!
398. RAND
‘Scool.
399. FLASH
Damn right it’s cool. Wouldn’t mind taking this baby all the way to Florida.
400. SALLY
Excuse me?! It’s a bus.
401. LIZ
Sally’s right. We’re not ditching the private jet for a bus. Right, Jason?
402. JASON
Uh…
403. SALLY
Right.
404. PETER
It really is a very nice bus though.
405. BISHANSKY
Hey, I’m not offended. I still can’t believe the Osborns hired me again. The last time, I got in two-- <impact grunt>
406. SEYMOUR
Dude, you totally rear-ended that guy at the tollbooth!
407. BISHANSKY
Not again…
408. SALLY
Wonderful. Now, we’ll be stuck here forever!
409. MAY
Everybody stay calm.
410. HARRY
Ah, man, gotta use the john…
411. KONG
<laughs> I think Osborn’s gonna hurl!
412. SALLY
Oh. My. God! If my hair starts smelling like vomit, I’ll sue you for bus-driver malpractice!!
413. BISHANSKY
Sorry, sorry…
Bishansky, Sally, Kong, Harry, May, Seymour, Peter, Jason, Liz, Flash, Rand, Gwen and Mary Jane sit. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
414. NARRATOR
The sun sets. At the castle, the gargoyles awaken…
415. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY, LEXINGTON
<awakening roars>
416. BROOKLYN
You must be Zafiro.
417. ZAFIRO
How did you know?
418. BROOKLYN
Strong family resemblance.
419. ZAFIRO
¿Perdón?
420. BROOKLYN
Long story. Time travel. The future. A whole other spin-off. Two actually…
421. OBSIDIANA
We don’t have time for your “spin-offsâ€. ¿Donde esta Goliath?
422. BROADWAY
He didn’t sleep here.
423. LEXINGTON
But I’m sure he’ll be back soon.
Elisa STANDS.
424. ELISA
He’d better. We have trouble. Demona trouble.
425. OBSIDIANA
Elisa!
426. ELISA
Hi, Obsidiana. I’m betting you have trouble too…
Elisa, Obsidiana, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Zafiro sit. Kraven, Calypso, Curt and Gulyadkin STAND.
427. NARRATOR
And while the clan awaits Goliath’s return…
428. KRAVEN
It is time, Calypso.
429. CALYPSO
Yes. The forces gather. We can make this one our own.
430. CURT
I demand you let me go!
431. KRAVEN
Hold your tongue, American dog. Or Gulyadkin will hold it for you.
432. GULYADKIN
<low lion growl>
433. CALYPSO
Calm yourself… This change will not be difficult. The primitive bound within is barely skin-deep…
434. CURT
I-- I don’t know what you’re talking about.
435. CALYPSO
I think you do. You see my companion. The details may have been created in a laboratory…
436. KRAVEN
But the soul of the Hunter â€" the beast inside â€" was always my own.
437. CURT
What are doing with that doll?
438. CALYPSO
Turning it inside out.
439. CURT
Listen to me, please. Even if you can release the “beast insideâ€, you don’t want to! It can’t be controlled.
440. KRAVEN
<laughs> Nyet. Not by you perhaps. But my Calypso is not so easily trifled with.
441. CALYPSO
It is time…
442. CURT
Noooo!!!! <transformation scream>
443. NARRATOR
Curt Connors is transformed by Calypso’s magic into the Lizard.
444. LIZARD
<roar>
445. KRAVEN
Now… to the Hunt!
Kraven, LIZARD, Calypso and Gulyadkin sit. Obsidiana, Zafiro, Angela, Elisa, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn STAND.
446. NARRATOR
Back at the Castle, Goliath has returned, and the entire clan has gathered. Elisa’s revealed what she knows about Demona. Now, it’s Obsidiana’s turn…
447. OBSIDIANA
It came from somewhere further south. Two human smugglers carrying an object of great power through the Green…
448. ZAFIRO
My mate is sensitive to these things. We tracked them, but they boarded a jet airplane and were soon out of our reach.
449. OBSIDIANA
Pero still I could sense great forces gathering. I asked Jade and Turquesa to teach us the way to Avalon…
450. ZAFIRO
Gabriel says hello, by the way.
451. ANGELA
Oh, I miss him. How is he?
452. ELISA
Angela, honey, let’s stay on point. I take it Avalon sent you here.
453. OBSIDIANA
Yes. We nearly achieved the totem, but a ridiculous human dressed in red and blueâ€"
454. ELISA, GOLIATH (UNISON)
Spider-Man…
455. OBSIDIANA
He did spin webs like a spider. Though from his hands, not hisâ€"
456. ZAFIRO
Focus, mi amor.
457. OBSIDIANA
Lo siento. This Man-Spider, he interfered. The smugglers escaped again. Now, power builds on power, rising to a crescendo.
458. BROADWAY
And that’s bad, right?
459. NARRATOR
Elisa’s cellphone rings.
Matt STANDS.
460. ELISA
Maza.
461. MATT
It’s Matt. Something’s going down at the OsCorp vault off the Expressway. Most of the Taskforce is already here. Stacy and his men too. But I’m thinking we might need… “back-upâ€. Lots and lots of back-up.
462. ELISA
We’re on our way. Brooklyn, can Bronx and Fu-Dog baby-sit Egwardo?
463. BROOKLYN
Of course.
464. ELISA
Good. Because otherwise it’s all hands on deck.
Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath and Angela sit. George, Morgan and O’Neil STAND.
465. MATT
Okay, Captain. The rest of the Taskforce is on its way.
466. GEORGE
My men are deployed.
467. O’NEIL
And just in time! Cuz we got Gobby and his Pumpkin-Heads at 12 o’clock!
Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
468. GREEN GOBLIN
Playtime!
469. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
470. MORGAN
And a gargoyle at 3 o’clock!
471. GEORGE
That’s not a gargoyle. That’s the Vulture!
Vulture STANDS.
472. VULTURE
You were right, Otto. The police were waiting. And the Goblin is here too. You don’t think it could actually be Osborn, still alive, do you?
Doctor Octopus and Electro STAND.
473. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Do not get distracted by old grudges, Adrian. It hardly matters who wears the Green. His intent is still to prevent me from regaining my arms. You must keep the Goblin and the authorities occupied.
474. VULTURE
Of course.
475. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Now, Electro. Open the vault.
476. ELECTRO
Roger that, Doc!
477. NARRATOR
Electro, already inside, short-circuits the vault’s electro-magnetic lock.
Tinkerer and Demona STAND.
478. TINKERER
Electro’s breached the vault.
479. DEMONA
So predictable. Send in your operatives.
480. NARRATOR
Tinkerer opens a burlap sack, releasing his five “operativesâ€.
HOMUNCULUS #1, HOMUNCULUS #2, HOMUNCULUS #3, HOMUNCULUS #4 and HOMUNCULUS #5 STAND.
481. HOMUNCULUS #1
Homunculi to the rescue!
482. HOMUNCULUS #2
Dirty work to be done!
483. HOMUNCULUS #3
Peach Cobbler!
484. HOMUNCULUS #4
Uh oh, somebody’s language system’s off-line again.
485. HOMUNCULUS #5
You know it, girlfriend!
Calypso, Kraven and Lizard STAND.
486. NARRATOR
And down in the sewer…
487. CALYPSO
It is right above us, my love. The Power and the Glory. The very keys to the Kingdom.
488. KRAVEN
And Kraven will lay them all at your feet.
489. LIZARD
<lizard roar>
490. NARRATOR
Up top, a stretch limo skids to a stop outside the vault. Dominic Dracon and Fancy Dan emerge.
Dracon and FANCY DAN STAND.
491. DRACON
All right, boys. Get me those jewels!
492. FANCY DAN
I think what the boss means is… Destroy the competition!
Carnage, Colonel Jupiter and Venom STAND.
493. CARNAGE
<evil chuckle> Carnage time?
494. FANCY DAN
Yeah. Go. Kill. Whatever.
495. COLONEL JUPITER
Colonel Jupiter will stop the Green Goblin and Vulture in their tracks!
496. FANCY DAN
Knock yourself out. But what are you waiting for?
497. VENOM
Someone worthy of our hate. But we have faith… He’ll come…
498. GREEN GOBLIN
My, my, the field’s getting crowded. Let’s thin the herd. Pumpkin-Heads, release the hounds! <ahem> That was a metaphor. Throw your pumpkin bombs already!
499. PUMPKIN BOMB
<multiple shrieks>
Pumpkin Bomb, Green Goblin, Venom, Fancy Dan, Colonel Jupiter, Carnage, Dracon, Lizard, Kraven, Calypso, Homunculus #5, Homunculus #4, Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Demona, Tinkerer, Electro, Doctor Octopus, Vulture, George, Morgan, O’Neil and Matt SIT. May, Peter, Bishansky, Flash, Kong, Sally, Mary Jane, Gwen and Harry STAND.
500. MAY
Goodness, what was that?
501. PETER
Something The Bugle will want pictures of. Open the door.
502. BISHANSKY
Uh…
503. MAY
Peter Parker, I am not letting you off this bus in the middle of the expressway.
504. PETER
Aunt May we’re at a complete standstill. And you don’t have to worry. I’ll use my telephoto lens. I won’t be anywhere near the action.
505. MAY
I suppose it is your job… Open the door.
506. BISHANSKY
Yes, ma’am.
507. PETER
Thanks, Aunt May. You rock!
508. FLASH
If Puny Parker’s going, I’m going too!
509. MAY
Eugene Thompson, you sit your backside down in that seat right this minute.
510. FLASH
Yes, ma’am.
511. KONG
<laughs>
512. SALLY
What’s he going to take pictures with? I saw his camera get blown up two months ago.
513. MARY JANE
Pete’s a professional photographer, Sally. I’m sure he has more than one camera.
514. GWEN
Harry… Are you all right in there?
515. HARRY
<vomit noise> Ugh, don’t come in. It really isn’t pretty.
Harry, Gwen, Mary Jane, Sally, Kong, Flash, May, Peter and Bishansky sit. Broadway, Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Elisa, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
516. NARRATOR
The clan alights on a rise overlooking the battlefield.
517. BROADWAY
Whoa, what a mess…
518. GOLIATH
We will split our forces. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro with me.
519. BROOKLYN
Shouldn’t I lead the other contingent?
520. GOLIATH
I need your experience and your weapons at my side.
521. ANGELA
Don’t worry, Brooklyn, we’ve got it covered.
522. NARRATOR
Angela, Hudson, Katana, Gnash, Coldstone and Coldfire glide toward the battle.
523. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY (UNISON)
Be careful!
Angela sits.
524. ELISA
You know I’m going with you.
525. GOLIATH
Not this time, Elisa. You must join your fellow officers…
526. ELISA
Butâ€"
527. GOLIATH
When all is settled, we shall need your help to cover our retreat from this conflagration… You know this is true.
528. ELISA
(defeated)
Yes.
Elisa sits. Spider-Man STANDS.
529. NARRATOR
Elisa makes her way down the hill. Goliath and the others glide to the Vault’s roof. Spider-Man lands there at the same time.
530. SPIDER-MAN, ZAFIRO (UNISON)
You again!
531. GOLIATH
Hold, Spider-Man. I have a friend who knows your Captain Stacy.
532. SPIDER-MAN
Really?
533. GOLIATH
This policeman believes in you. So I choose to believe in you as well.
534. SPIDER-MAN
Says the eight-foot tall medieval monster. But I get it. We’re on the same side. So let’s go kick some Pumpkin-Butt!
535. ZAFIRO
¡Idiota! That battle is a mere distraction.
536. OBSIDIANA
The true danger lies within…
537. SPIDER-MAN
All right, all right, you had me at “Idiotaâ€.
538. NARRATOR
The gargoyles rip open the rooftop. The seven heroes descend, but someone watches…
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn sit. Venom and Fancy Dan STAND.
539. VENOM
And there goes our Bro…
540. FANCY DAN
You going in? That wasn’t the plan!
541. VENOM
And how do intend to stop us?
542. FANCY DAN
Fine, go. But if you see my Ricochet suit, bring it out!
Fancy Dan and Venom sit. Foswell, Jonah and Robbie STAND.
543. FOSWELL
See, J.J. The tip from Dracon’s old chauffer was right on the money.
544. JONAH
Whaddaya want, a fershlugginer medal?! Let’s get in there!
545. ROBBIE
Slow down, Jonah. I promised Joan I wouldn’t let you lose your head, figuratively or literally.
546. JONAH
Forget my head! Who cares about my head?! My boy needs me!
Ned and Colonel Jupiter STAND.
547. NED
Looks to me like your boy’s doing pretty well, Chief!
548. COLONEL JUPITER
Take that, miscreants!
549. ROBBIE
Ned, how did youâ€"
550. NED
Tip from one of the pumpkin-heads. Foswell’s not the only one with sources.
551. JONAH
You two can naked mud-wrestle over who’s the biggest brown-noser later. For now, Robbie, if you don’t let go of me in zero-point-zero seconds, I’ll dropkick you to next Season! And there’s no guarantee there’ll be a next Season!
552. NARRATOR
Jonah breaks away from Robbie, but his path is blocked…
Elisa STANDS.
553. ELISA
Get back! You want to wind up street pizza!
554. JONAH
But that’s my son up there.
555. ELISA
Yeah, well, at least he’s fighting on the right side.
556. COLONEL JUPITER
Nothing stands against the might of Colonel Jupiter!
557. ELISA
Does he always talk like that?
558. ROBBIE
Bombasticism runs in the family.
Robbie, Elisa, Colonel Jupiter, Jonah, Ned and Foswell sit. Vulture, Carnage, Green Goblin, Angela, Fancy Dan, Matt and Dracon STAND.
559. NARRATOR
Jupiter takes down Pumpkin-Heads right and left. Hudson squares off against Vulture.
560. VULTURE
Why do I get the old guy?
561. NARRATOR
You’re old. He’s old. It’s parallelism. Get over it.
(beat)
Coldstone and Coldfire isolate Carnage.
562. CARNAGE
No fair! These two don’t spatter at all!
563. NARRATOR
Angela and Katana take on the Goblin.
564. GREEN GOBLIN
Oh, goody. Gobby likes getting down and dirty with the hotties.
565. ANGELA
Oh, you did not just say that.
566. NARRATOR
And little Gnash goes after Fancy Dan.
567. FANCY DAN
Admit it, you gave me the kid because I’m short?
568. NARRATOR
Even Detective Bluestone gets into the act.
569. MATT
Freeze, Dracon!
570. DRACON
You’re confused. I’m G.F. Benton, a certified public accountant. I think I’ll be going now…
571. MATT
Yeah. Back to Ravencroft, you old nutter!
572. NARRATOR
But inside, things are a bit more serious…
Matt, Dracon, Fancy Dan, Angela, Green Goblin, Carnage and Vulture sit. Electro and Doctor Octopus STAND.
573. ELECTRO
Got your arms, Doc!
574. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
And my Megalo-Pack?
575. ELECTRO
You’re Mega-what now?
576. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
My power-source, Maxwell.
577. ELECTRO
Right, right. No. That’s not here.
578. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
What?!
Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #3 STAND.
579. HOMUNCULUS #1
Gotta get the true treasure!
580. HOMUNCULUS #2
Bring it back to the big Smurfette!
581. HOMUNCULUS #3
Blunk hates getting wet!
582. NARRATOR
Three Homunculi fly deeper into the vault to retrieve Demona’s prize.
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Zafiro, Spider-Man, Lexington, Homunculus #5, Goliath, Brooklyn, Broadway and Obsidiana STAND.
583. ZAFIRO
What are those things?!
584. SPIDER-MAN, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
Robots!
585. LEXINGTON
And I got one!
586. HOMUNCULUS #5
Leggo, you big bully!
587. LEXINGTON
<ugh> What an annoying voice…
588. HOMUNCULUS #5
(aside to audience)
Look who’s talking.
589. LEXINGTON
…But I might be able to use it to take control of the others.
590. SPIDER-MAN
I think I can help.
Venom STANDS.
591. VENOM
You’ll be a little too busy for that, Bro.
592. GOLIATH
Friend of yours?
593. SPIDER-MAN
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
594. VENOM
Die, Spider-Man!
595. VENOM, SPIDER-MAN
<add-lib battle sounds>
596. SPIDER-MAN
A little help?
597. NARRATOR
Brooklyn blasts Venom, who collapses.
598. VENOM
<vibrating scream>
Venom sits.
599. BROOKLYN
Sonic Cannon. Circa 2198. Guess my weapons do come in handy.
600. LEXINGTON
Just cover me until I can get this working…
Demona and Tinkerer STAND.
601. DEMONA
What’s wrong, Tinkerer? Why haven’t they returned?
602. TINKERER
Someone’s trying to counter their programming. He won’t succeed.
603. DEMONA
He had better not.
604. LEXINGTON
My hack’s being hacked!
605. TINKERER
He’s overriding my override!
Homunculus #4 STANDS.
606. HOMUNCULUS #4
Go right. Go left. Go right. Go left. Blow up!
607. NARRATOR
Homunculus #4 blows up. But so does Homunculus #5 in Lexington’s hands!
608. LEXINGTON
<pain cry>
609. BROADWAY
Lexington!
Homunculus #4 and Homunculus #5 sit.
610. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
This is madness! Grab my arms and get me out of here!
611. ELECTRO
Workin’ on it!
612. NARRATOR
Electro blasts away, until he and Doc Ock are blindsided by…
Kraven, Gulyadkin, Lizard and Calypso STAND.
613. ELECTRO, DOCTOR OCTOPUS
<impacts>
614. BROADWAY
Look, it’s Claw.
615. KRAVEN
<roar>
616. BROOKLYN
That’s not Claw.
617. BROADWAY
Well, it’s sure not Maggie.
618. GULYADKIN
<lion roar>
619. LEXINGTON
(recovering)
Is that an actual lion?
620. LIZARD
<lizard roar>
621. SPIDER-MAN
Lizard, too? Seriously, this is way over the top.
Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
622. HOMUNCULUS #1
Got the gizmo!
623. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi never fail!
624. NARRATOR
Two homunculi fly past, carrying a sealed container down a dark corridor.
625. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA (UNISON)
The totem!
(pointing at each other)
Don’t let her near it!
626. KRAVEN
Go, Calypso! Leave them to us!
627. ZAFIRO
¡Vaya, mi amor!
628. BROOKLYN
We got your back, Goliath! Go!
629. SPIDER-MAN
Think I’ll tag along too…
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Calypso, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Goliath, Tinkerer and Demona sit.
630. NARRATOR
Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spider-Man race down the corridor.
631. KRAVEN
Lizard, take the reptile!
632. ZAFIRO
¡No soy ningún reptil! ¡Soy un Gárgolo!
633. ZAFIRO, LIZARD
<ad-lib battle sounds>
634. KRAVEN
Gulyadkin attack!
635. GULYADKIN
<pounce roar>
636. NARRATOR
Gulyadkin and Kraven attack Lex and Broadway!
637. LEXINGTON
Hey, get him off me!
638. BROADWAY
Kinda busy at the moment!
639. GULYADKIN, LEXINGTON, KRAVEN, BROADWAY
<ad-lib struggles>
640. NARRATOR
Brooklyn steps in and pulls both cats off his rookery brothers. They turn on him.
641. BROOKLYN
Uh oh.
642. BROADWAY, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
All for one!
643. NARRATOR
The two gargoyles return the favor, knocking Kraven and Gulyadkin aside. Then Brooklyn blasts them both.
644. BROOKLYN
And one for all!
645. KRAVEN, GULYADKIN
<blast impacts>
646. LEXINGTON
Some things never change.
647. NARRATOR
Zafiro throws Lizard’s unconscious body on top of Kraven…
648. KRAVEN, LIZARD
<oofs>
649. ZAFIRO
We should follow Obsidiana…
650. ZAFIRO, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY
<electrocution scream>
651. NARRATOR
The four gargoyles are dropped by Electro’s blast.
652. ELECTRO
Still want out?
653. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed not. My curiosity is piqued. Let’s see where this leads…
Doctor Octopus, Electro, Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn, Zafiro, Gulyadkin, Kraven and Lizard sit. Demona, Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
654. NARRATOR
Electro and Octopus head down the corridor… In a dimly lit room, Demona holds the Spear of Destiny and watches as the two homunculi open the container. Inside… is a crown of thorns.
655. DEMONA
The Crown of Thorns!
656. NARRATOR
Demona removes her tiara.
657. DEMONA
Place it on my head…
658. HOMUNCULUS #1
Placing, placing…
659. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi aim to please!
660. NARRATOR
The Homunculi gently lower the crown onto Demona’s head before disappearing back into the darkness. The thorns bite into her brow, drawing blood. Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spidey come rushing in.
Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Spider-Man, Goliath, Calypso and Obsidiana STAND.
661. DEMONA
My Kingdom come. My Will be done…
662. SPIDER-MAN
Friend of yours?
663. GOLIATH
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
664. DEMONA
On Earth as it is in Heaven…
665. CALYPSO
Too late…
666. OBSIDIANA
Too late…
667. DEMONA
For MINE is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory for ever and ever…
668. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA, SPIDER-MAN (UNISON)
Amen…
669. NARRATOR
Light radiates outward from the Spear. Goliath watches in confusion as Calypso, Obsidiana and Spider-Man drop to their knees before Demona. Octopus and Electro enter and likewise fall to their knees. The light reaches the outer vault. Though still unconscious, Venom, Lizard, Zafiro and Kraven lurch to their feet, then drop to their knees. And still the light advances…
Obsidiana and Calypso sit.
670. GOLIATH
What sorcery is this?!
671. DEMONA
The most powerful human sorcery ever created, Goliath. This is humanity’s Armageddon. Their entire race’s final act.
END ACT TWO
NEXT: ACT THREE...
G2008 Radio Play
G2008 Radio Play (Chapter VII)
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE STAND.
13. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 2, 6:46AM EST. Scarab Corp. Coldsteel looks on, as David Xanatos installs a diamond inside Coyote 5.0.
14. COLDSTEEL
And what would that be?
15. XANATOS
It’s called the Coyote Diamond…
16. NARRATOR
Chapter Seven: The Rock.
17. XANATOS
The stone’s flawless surfaces and clarity increase the speed of--
18. COLDSTEEL
I’m sorry I asked.
19. XANATOS
My apologies. I’m sure you’re much more interested in your own situation.
20. COLDSTEEL
I was under the impression I had free will.
21. XANATOS
And you do. I promise summoning you was a one-time event. On the other hand, your unit does include a built-in tracking device… which I’m happy to deactivate…
22. COLDSTEEL
Permanently?
23. XANATOS
Permanently. All I ask in return is help on one small errand. Are we agreed?
24. COLDSTEEL
We are agreed.
25. COYOTE
Excellent.
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE sit. TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA STAND.
26. NARRATOR
3:52PM EST. The Labyrinth. Talon cradles Maggie the Cat, as Dr. Jay Sato examines her. Elisa Maza looks on.
27. TALON
How is she, Doc?
28. SATO
Well, her pulse is fine, and her injuries seem to be healing nicely…
29. MAGGIE
See, Derek, I said you were worried over nothing.
30. SATO
But I’m a surgeon. Treating someone in Maggie’s… “condition†is really not my area.
31. ELISA
Not anyone’s, Dr. Sato. Anyone we dare trust anyway.
32. SATO
It’s as if you’ve revealed a new world to me…
33. ELISA
Yep, you’re a medical pioneer.
34. SATO
Pioneer or not, she needs an O.B.
TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA sit. Macbeth, BROOKLYN, GOLIATH, BROADWAY, OWEN & Xanatos STAND.
35. NARRATOR
4:50PM EST. Eyrie Building. As the sun sets, Owen Burnett and Macbeth wait for Goliath to wake. NOVEMBER 2, 5:12PM EST. Inside the Great Hall, Macbeth addresses Goliath, Brooklyn, Hudson, Angela, Broadway, Bronx and Lexington.
36. MACBETH
It’s called the Stone of Destiny. For centuries the kings of Scotland were crowned upon it at Scone…
37. BROOKLYN
Magic talking stone. We’ve heard of it.
38. MACBETH
Yes, well, the English stole it. Now, after eight hundred years, it’s finally being returned. I’m asking for your help to ensure it gets to Scotland safely.
39. GOLIATH
Don’t you have… minions… for this?
40. MACBETH
We’ve parted ways. Please, Goliath. Many â€" including your landlord â€" would stop at nothing to get the Stone.
41. GOLIATH
I have been wounded twice in one week. I am healed â€" but not whole. But my second, Brooklyn, can lead Broadway, Lexington and Angela to join your quest.
42. BROADWAY
Yeah, we’re goin’ to Scotland!!
43. MACBETH
Well, England to start with--
44. BROOKLYN
I don’t know, Goliath, if you’re recovering, maybe this is the wrong time to send me overseas.
45. GOLIATH
Ah… Yes. You are needed here. Hudson may lead this expedition.
46. NARRATOR
Owen, watching the exchange by closed circuit, talks on the phone to Xanatos, who’s about to board a private plane.
47. OWEN
Yes, Macbeth, Hudson, Broadway, Angela and Lexington… Shall I attempt to stop them?
48. XANATOS
That won’t be necessary. I believe I’ve planned for this contingency.
49. NARRATOR
Back in the Great Hall, Angela whispers in Broadway’s ear.
50. BROADWAY
Uh… yeah… Manhattan’s dangerous right now. Me and Angela’ll stay too. To help Brooklyn.
51. BROOKLYN
That’s great. Thanks.
Macbeth, Brooklyn, Goliath, Broadway, Owen & Xanatos sit. SHARI STANDS.
52. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 3, 5:29AM EST. Nightstone Unlimited. Shari and Thailog are in Dominique Destine’s office.
53. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of two brothers who both loved the same female. And though all strife comes to an end one way or another, some conflicts refuse to stay dead. Xanatos and Demona used science and sorcery to create a monster from fragments of all three gargoyles, their bodies and souls. But in the end, the souls were segregated into Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel. It’s really a timeless love story.
SHARI sits. Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON STAND.
54. NARRATOR
3:00PM GMT. London. A private jet lands. Customs Officials greet Macbeth, as workers wheel two large crates from the plane’s hold.
55. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Lennox Macduff?
56. MACBETH
Yes.
57. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Welcome to England, sir. Anything to declare?
58. MACBETH
Works of art for my home in Berkeley Square.
59. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Have to have a look in, sir.
60. MACBETH
Of course.
61. NARRATOR
The crates are opened, revealing Lexington and Hudson, frozen in stone. 4:30PM GMT. Macbeth waits on the roof of his Berkeley Square Townhouse for Hudson and Lexington to wake. The sun sets. 5:07PM. It’s past sunset. Hudson and Lex are STILL frozen in stone. 6:15PM. Night. No change. 7:01PM. Macbeth grows concerned. 7:45PM. Hudson and Lex finally wake.
62. LEXINGTON, HUDSON
<awakening roars>
63. LEXINGTON
Whoa, I don’t feel so hot… and look how dark it is? How long have we been asleep?
64. MACBETH
Welcome, lad, to the wonderful world of jetlag. Don’t worry. You’ve got ten days to adjust before they move the Stone.
Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON sit. Shari, INTERCOM & VINNIE STAND.
65. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 4, 5:30AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog soaks in a jacuzzi. Shari sits nearby.
66. SHARI
The story is told -- though who can say if it be true-- of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham… who fled the wrath of his brother Esau to a place he would call Bethel, where he laid his head upon a stone and had a wondrous vision!
67. NARRATOR
5:35AM EST. J.F.K.
68. INTERCOM
Flight 994, now boarding all rows…
69. VINNIE
Can you believe it? I’m goin’ to Japan!
Shari, Intercom & Vinnie sit. Goliath & Elisa STAND.
70. NARRATOR
9:48PM EST. Goliath’s Tower.
71. GOLIATH
About Halloween… I will not hold you to words spoken when you believed my life hung in the balance.
72. ELISA
Even if I want to be held?
73. GOLIATH
I know you care for me. That is not at issue. But what of the things I cannot give you… picnics… normalcy…?
74. ELISA
We can have a picnic anytime… and normalcy’s so over-rated.
75. NARRATOR
She runs her fingers through his hair. He takes her into his arms and kisses her.
Goliath & Elisa sit. Shari STANDS.
76. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 5, 5:31AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari look out over the city.
77. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" that Gathelus, a son of the king of Athens, won many victories for the Pharaoh of Egypt, who rewarded the prince with the hand of his beloved: Pharaoh’s own daughter, Scota. But Gathelus had also befriended Moses, the Hebrew, who warned his young friends of the plagues to befall the Kingdom of the Nile. Gathelus and Scota determined to leave Egypt, and Moses entrusted them with Jacob’s Pillow, the Hebrews’ sacred stone…
78. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 6, 5:32AM EST. ST. DAMIEN’S CATHEDRAL. Thailog, Shari and Brentwood search for something.
79. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" that Gathelus fled Egypt with his wife and the Stone of the Hebrews. He sought landfall on the rocky shores of Samothrace, for Scota was heavy with child and could go no farther. Still destiny blessed them with fine twin sons…
80. NARRATOR
6:00AM EST. Thailog flies Shari across the city. Brentwood follows.
81. SHARI
Gathelus and his family would wander the globe for two years before finding a home on the Iberian Peninsula in a place they named the Port of Gathelus, or Portugal. By this time the family had grown: the Athenian prince and Egyptian princess now had four healthy boys in their care not to mention one large Stone.
82. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 7, 5:33AM EST. Thailog and Shari begin a game of chess.
83. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" that after the death of her beloved Gathelus, Scota departed Portugal with her eight sons… only to lose five of the boys at sea… while Scota herself and another son died warrior’s deaths upon landing in Ireland. But her eldest boy, Eremon, and her youngest, Eber Finn, survived, and Eremon was crowned king upon the Stone at Tara.
Shari sits. Xanatos & FOX stand.
84. NARRATOR
2:18PM GMT. Mayfair. Xanatos takes Alexander from Fox.
85. XANATOS
Darling, if you like the shoes, buy them…
86. FOX
The black manolos in the window… do you have them in a size nine? Lovely. Wrap them up, please.
87. NARRATOR
2:45PM GMT. Fox exits the store.
88. FOX
Mission accomplished.
89. NARRATOR
7:19PM GMT. Fox admires her new shoes in the full-length mirror of her hotel room. Xanatos admires the shoebox.
90. XANATOS
Darling? Do you still need this shoebox… or might I dispose of it?
Xanatos & Fox sit. Shari & THAILOG STAND.
91. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 8, 5:34AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari continue their chess game.
92. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Moses, who led the Hebrews out of Egypt and into the desert… bringing forth water from Jacob’s Pillow to quench their--
93. THAILOG
You said Moses gave the Stone to Gathelus and Scota before leading the Hebrews out of Egypt!
94. SHARI
The story is told…
95. THAILOG
<pause> Though who can say if it be true? Right. Continue.
96. SHARI
The Hebrews passed the Stone down the centuries, until the prophet Jeremiah offered it in dowry to King Eochaid of Ireland when he wed Tamar Tea Tephi, Princess of Judah. Eochaid ensconced the Stone at Tara and dubbed it Lia Fáil.
97. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 9, 5:36AM EST.
98. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Cu Chullain, the Hero of Ulster, who championed Lugaid Red-Stripe for king. But when the Lia Fáil would not cry to confirm Lugaid, Cu Chullain was enraged, striking with Gae Bolga, the Spear of Light, and splitting the Stone of Destiny forever!
99. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 10, 5:37AM EST. Shari captures Thailog’s white knight with her black bishop.
100. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of young Prince Fergus of Ireland, who carried half Cu Chullain’s handiwork to Argyll in what men now call Scotland to found a kingdom called Dalriada. Though a castle called Carbonek found him instead, bringing the Priest-King Pelles and the Archmage Merlin and their request to borrow the Stone of Destiny for a purpose of their own. A purpose fulfilled in Londontown by a sword clep’d Excalibur in a stone clep’d Lia Fáil drawn forth by a boy clep’d Arthur.
101. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 11, 5:38AM EST. Thailog tips over one of Shari’s black rooks with his white bishop.
102. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Saint Columba, he who tamed the monster of Loch Ness, before returning to the island of Iona, where Merlin and Pelles had brought the Stone once it had served their purposes. And where Columba laid down his head upon Jacob’s Pillow and breathed his last.
103. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 12, 5:39AM EST. Shari’s Black Queen is lined up to capture Thailog’s White King.
104. SHARI
Check.
105. THAILOG
<growl>
106. SHARI
Would you prefer I lost on purpose?
107. THAILOG
I’d fire you if you did. Don’t you have a story to tell?
108. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Kenneth MacAlpin, scion of Fergus, who united the Kingdoms of Scotland and was crowned High King upon the Stone at Scone. As would all the Heirs of Scota â€" for the next four hundred years.
COLDFIRE STANDS.
109. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 12, 10:00PM GMT. David Xanatos presses a button on a remote control. NOVEMBER 13, 6:01AM GMT+8. TIBET. Inside the old cave, Coldstone and Coldfire stand over Master Dawa and Sangpo. All react to a noise.
110. COLDFIRE
I believe… I believe I can find him…
Coldfire sits.
111. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 13, 5:40AM EST. NIGHTSTONE.
112. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Edward the First of England, the Hammer of the Scots, who sicced his mighty Warwolf on his neighbors to the north and took as prize the Stone of Scone, which he installed in the Coronation Chair at Westminster Abbey, where it has crowned the kings and queens of England down to this very day…
Shari & Thailog sit. Lexington, Macbeth, Hudson, Arthur, GRIFF, AMP & COCO STAND.
113. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 13, 5:32PM GMT. Hudson and Lex are atop Victoria Tower. Macbeth is below, in front of Westminster Abbey.
114. LEXINGTON
All clear. No sign of trouble.
115. MACBETH
Not expecting trouble tonight. They’re only moving the Stone from the Coronation Chair to the Lantern. It won’t leave the Abbey until tomorrow.
116. HUDSON
Aye, and the human security is tight as a drum. I’m nae convinced you could break in there with a battering ram.
117. MACBETH
You’d be surprised.
118. NARRATOR
11:46PM GMT.
119. LEXINGTON
<yawn> Still nothing to report. Who exactly are we expecting?
120. MACBETH
Anyone. Everyone. Just stay alert…
121. NARRATOR
Macbeth spots a shadowy figure and pursues it down into a London Underground Station…
122. MACBETH
I’m probably on a wild goose chase, lads. But in case I’m not, you’d better head this… way…
123. LEXINGTON
That could be a problem…
124. NARRATOR
Arthur Pendragon puts Excalibur to Macbeth’s throat. Meanwhile, on Victoria Tower, Hudson and Lex are surrounded by gargoyles.
125. ARTHUR
By the blade of Excalibur, what are you up to now, Macbeth?
126. MACBETH
King Arthur?! I’m here to protect the Stone of Destiny!
127. ARTHUR
Then our two quests are one and the same!
128. MACBETH
Aye…
129. ARTHUR, MACBETH (UNISON)
The gargoyles!!
130. MACBETH
They’ll be at each other’s throats!!
131. GRIFF
Hudson! Lexington! Bloody lovely to see you again!
132. LEXINGTON
You too, Griff!
133. HUDSON
Aye, lad. The badduns’ll have no chance at that Stone now!
134. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 14, 5:28AM. Macbeth radios Lex.
135. MACBETH
It’ll soon be dawn. You and Hudson go with Griff. Arthur and I will stand vigil through the day.
Arthur & Macbeth sit.
136. NARRATOR
5:33AM GMT. Griff, Hudson, Lex and the other two gargoyles glide over London.
137. LEXINGTON
Are we headed to Soho? Goliath said you have a store there…
138. GRIFF
We do. But I thought I’d take you home instead. To our clan--
139. AMP
To Knight’s Spur!
140. COCO
You know, Griff, I don’t believe we’ve been properly introduced to your Yank friends…
141. HUDSON
<Hmph> Watch who you’re callin’ a Yank, lass…
142. GRIFF
Where are my manners? Hudson, Lexington, this is Constance.
143. COCO
My friends call me Coco.
144. GRIFF
And this is Staghart.
145. AMP
My friends call me Amp!
146. COCO
Nobody calls you Amp, luv.
147. LEXINGTON
I’ll call you Amp.
148. NARRATOR
5:40AM.
149. GRIFF
Welcome to Knight’s Spur…
150. NARRATOR
7:20AM. Atop Knight’s Spur, Old Pog, Hudson, Griff, Lex, Amp, Coco and Lunette sleep as stone.
Hudson, Lexington, Griff, Amp & Coco sit. Arthur & Macbeth STAND.
151. NARRATOR
7:48AM. Macbeth and Arthur sip coffee outside a Nightstone’s café.
152. ARTHUR
…Mortally wounded in 542. So they shipped me off to some magic hill and put me to sleep for a thousand four hundred fifty-three years.
153. MACBETH
Sounds lovely.
154. ARTHUR
And you?
155. MACBETH
Deal with a demon in 1040. Officially died in 1057. Been sleepwalking for nine hundred thirty-nine years.
156. ARTHUR
<pause> Guess I got the better bargain.
157. MACBETH
Ach, I try not to dwell these days. So here’s to the immortals. There aren’t many like us…
Arthur & Macbeth sit. Shari STANDS.
158. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 14, 5:42AM EST. NIGHTSTONE. Shari places her black knight in front of Thailog’s white knight.
159. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Robert the Bruce of Scotland, who defeated the English at Bannockburn with the help of an Irish ally, Cormac MacCarthy. With the victory, came a prize: a fragment of the Fatal Stone that England had taken from Scone. This fragment, the Bruce gave to MacCarthy, whose descendents had it installed at Blarney Castle, where it is said to grant the gift of gab. I’ve kissed it myself a time or two…
Shari sits. Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur STAND.
160. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 14, 6:32PM GMT. Knight’s Spur. Hudson, Macbeth and Arthur confer in a book-lined study.
161. HUDSON
Lex, Griff, Constance and Staghart sent you home to rest then…
162. MACBETH
Aye, Hudson. We’ll catch a few hours sleep then head back out. But you…?
163. HUDSON
I had some questions for the Pendragon. Weren’t you on a quest to find your wizard?
164. ARTHUR
Indeed. And Sir Griff and I searched for Merlin in all the obvious places. But to no gain. So I’ve been “doing research†on Merlin… and on myself.
165. NARRATOR
Hudson examines a copy of Le Morte D’Arthur by Thomas Malory.
166. HUDSON
So many books… are any of them true?
167. ARTHUR
All things are true… few things are accurate.
168. MACBETH
Aye. No bloody kidding.
169. NARRATOR
Hudson contemplates this.
Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur sit.
Tomorrow, Chapter VIII...
Derek writes...
Why did Thailog not clone Angela? I know in the past you've said that Demona never released the mosquito to gain Angela's dna and that's why. But Thailog could have easily have had his own mosquito(sounds so silly when I say it like that) and got dna samples from the clan himself like he did from Demona and Eliza. Wouldn't he have wanted the additionally manpower? He was planning on betraying Demona anyway that's why he created Delilah. Why respect Demona wishes with Angela? Did he think the other male clones would be easier to control without another female gargoyle?
Greg responds...
Your premise is incorrect.
When would Thailog have had the opportunity to gather Angela's DNA (before Clan-Building, I mean)? He got Elisa's DNA from one of Demona's mosquitos. We saw that in the episode. One presumes he got Demona's the same way. That is, the mosquitos were released and took a blood sample. It's not like Demona could tell them whom to bite. Her only control was to NOT release a mosquito. So when Angela was around, she didn't release one.
Todd Jensen writes...
I'd like to thank you for the birthday present. "Bad Guys" #4 came out on August 20, my birthday, so I consider it a birthday present from you (though purely thanks to the coincidence of timing).
I'd suspected that Sevarius's plan to mutate a lot of people at one go (mentioned in the teaser at the end of #3) would involve the New Year's Eve celebration in Times Square, after it was revealed in #3 that this adventure was taking place on New Year's Eve (the New Year's Eve Celebrity Hockey marathon) - but I was cautious at the same time, simply because such schemes have shown up so often in super-hero cartoons. (I've seen two Batman cartoons where the villain - in one case, the Joker himself - was attempting to gas Gotham City during its equivalent of the Times Square countdown, and it seemed too much of a cliche. But then I remembered that this *is* Sevarius we're talking about, and so the idea didn't seem so improbable. I was pleased that my suspicion was correct.
While Sevarius is his usual over-the-top self, his mutating got much darker than in "Metamorphosis". For one thing, he's now including children among his victims. And then there's Tasha's suicide, which took me by surprise. I wonder who employed him to produce so many Mutates, incidentally.
Fang was his usual loudmouth self (I particularly liked his grumbling over Sevarius having to be so over-the-top as to have the virus go off at precisely midnight). And he showed how insensitive he can be when he dared make a joke about Tasha's hanging herself (I can't say I blame Yama for responding as he did). I'm not surprised that nobody on the Redemption Squad (except for the still off-stage Director, and possibly Matrix - we didn't see his response) wants him on the team.
Was the DNA sample from Angela left over from "Monsters" (when Sevarius took samples from her and thereby learned of her parentage) or from the more recent Double Date Halloween battle?
Trust Brendan and Margot to be present at the countdown (and their usual selves, too).
More Dingo-and-Matrix interaction (I liked Dingo's protest when Matrix "abandoned" him to stop the virus from escaping, and Matrix's explanation). Those two make a fun team.
I'm looking forward to #5 (whether it comes out as a single issue or as part of the trade paperback collection), and the identity of the mystery figure from Dingo's past. (I have a suspicion as to who he might be, but because of the "no ideas" rule, all that I'll say is that it has to do with Dingo's real name - and where else I've come across it before).
Once again, thank you for the birthday present, Greg.
Greg responds...
Angela's sample was from "Monsters".
Chris writes...
What would Demona do if she knew how Elisa Maza stopped Macbeth from killing her, and how she told Angela that she was her mother when Goliath refused to do so?
Greg responds...
Let's find out...
Someday.
Nina writes...
Hello Greg,
First of all, thank you for such an intelligent, brilliantly-written series.
Secondly, I have a question regarding Broadway and Angela's kiss in The Journey. I'm sorry if this has been answered before, but I don't recall finding anything related to it in the archives.
Anyway.
You've stated (I believe in the DVD commentary) that gargoyles don't kiss to show affection, but rather wrap their wings around each other and stroke each other's hair. So why do Broadway and Angela kiss? I've had a number of theories, myself:
1. being younger, Broadway and Angela (especially Angela) have been heavily influenced by the tendencies of humans, ie. ways of displaying affection. I mean, Angela must have seen Tom macking on Katherine a few times back on Avalon, right? Not to mention the fact that the eggs were raised in an unconventional (human) way.
2. To show the pair actally kissing would have truly established them as a solid couple in the minds of viewers. It's also a lot more heart-wrenching to see them kiss with Brooklyn watching them.
3. It WAS The Goliath Chronicles, and the writers weren't aware of all the nuances in the world of the gargoyles.
Well, I've probably gone and answered my question, in there. But thanks for taking the time to read through this, anyway!
You and Gargoyles truly are the bees' knees.
Greg responds...
We're stuck with 1 & 2, since I was the writer of "The Journey".
Brenden Thoreson writes...
Hello Greg, long time fan of gargoyles, and most of my questions about the Gargoyles universe have been answered by browsing the archives but these questions.
I see from the archives that Angela and Broadway will raise their children in the traditional gargoyles fashion, and I am assuming that Brooklyn and Katana will try to do the same. But this has led me to some interesting questions about the relationships between generations of gargoyles in the same clan.
I have seen that from the first episode that gargoyles from the same rookery generation call one another rookery brother or rookery sister, or if there are close bonds just brother and sister. So my first question is do gargoyles have the same endearing names for an older or younger generation with in the clan, for example rookery mother, rookery father, rookery son, rookery daughter, or some other term like those? Yes I do know that Goliath's generation calls Hudson My Mentor, I am assuming that is so only because he was the leader and teacher of the clan before Goliath.
Another is I have noticed that Hudson has a stronger relationship with Goliath then any other of Goliath's rookery siblings, or at least just the ones we have met so far. I am assuming this is do to, that Hudson saw Goliath's potential as a successor and paid special attention to him to prepare him for the role. I have also noticed that gargoyles in one generation develop strong ties with a few siblings like Coldstone's and Goliath's relationship. My next question is do stronger relationships develop between certain hatchlings and certain members of the parenting generation or members of another older generation of gargoyles?
But in Mark of the Panther Goliath, who is having trouble dealing and even understanding Angela's unusual need for parents and her attachment to him after she finds that she is his biological daughter, says to Elisa's mother Diane "gargoyle hatchlings belong to the whole clan, I cannot hold one hatchling over the others." So are these kinds of relationships, I have asked about in the previous paragraph, taboo, shunned, frowned upon, or generally accepted as a part of the growing up process of young gargoyles, or are they just Goliath's personal words do to the fact that he is the clan leader?
Thanks for even putting up a general questions website, not many writers do that or post the site on there publications. I apologize for my long winded questions but it just the way I write. Just to let you know Gargoyles has been a huge influence in my own stories and don't worry I have absolutely no fan fictions of Gargoyles and I have never understood why people have to do them, they don't make sense to me any ways.
I can't wait for Brooklyn's little trip, especially the clan's reactions when he gets back five minutes later, they will be priceless. I might have to scan the images in and use them as a desktop. I just can't see Time Dancer done in six issues like I heard the spin offs will be done in, too much happening from what I have found on Ask Greg. Well I guess that is why it is third in line and thanks again.
Greg responds...
Some gargoyles will develop stronger relationships with some. With that many parents, siblings, children, etc. running around, it's natural. But neither "shunned, frowned upon, or generally accepted" fits the bill to my mind. Amd citing Hudson/Goliath hardly proves anything. Hudson's pre-massacre relationship with anyone else in Goliath's generation has not been explored. Nor has Goliath's relationship with anyone else from Hudson's generation even been touched on.
In Panther, Goliath is NOT having trouble with Angela's "unusal need for parents". He's concerned about what her specific need to acknowledge their BIOLOGICAL relationship might mean... both in terms of his relationship to the rest of the Avalon Clan and especially HER relationship to her biological mother.
Not all of Brooklyn's TimeDancer adventures are designed to fit into one six episode mini. Just one six-part story. I could tell TimeDancer adventures for forty years. And I hope I get that chance.
Gipdac writes...
Seeing "Reckoning" when Demona was explaining to Angela how she survived over a thousand years made me think, how much does anyone really know about her immortality; for example during "City of Stone" she lied to Xanatos about it, so…
1. How much of Demona's true story (about MacBeth, her immortality, the Weird Sisters, her clan after Wyvern, the Hunter(s), etc.) does Angela really know?
2. How much does Thailog know about Demona's true story?
3. How much does Xanatos know about Demona's true story?
4. How much does Puck/Owen know about Demona's true story?
5. How much do Goliath and the rest of the Manhattan clan know about Demona's true story?
Greg responds...
1. Very little.
2. Very little.
3. Very little.
4. Quite a bit.
5. Very little.
MARCH 21
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
March 21st...
1058
In Avalon, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca and thirty-two other gargoyles and gargoyle beasts hatch out of their eggs.
1924
Mace disappears with a fortune in jewels to become a full-time operative for the Illuminati. He writes a letter to Dominic Dracon, taunting him with false clues about the location of the jewels.
2198
From around the globe, human heads of state and all twelve Gargoyle Clan Leaders come to Queen Florence Island for the hatching. The Space-Spawn attacks, abducting the gargoyle eggs and the human and gargoyle leaders, including U.N. Secretary General Alexander Fox Xanatos IV. And in Antarctica, Earth's Master Matrix Computer is stolen. The Space-Spawn invasion has begun.
FEBRUARY 8
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 8th...
1996
On Avalon, Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. Quite aware they won't be getting home any time soon, the travelers elect to spend "a few days" resting and getting to know the Avalon Clan. And in Nigeria, Tea is marked by a were-panther on the day she departs for the city of Abuja.
Meg writes...
Greg, I just have a quick question about Demona's attitude towards Angela. Specifically, what makes *Demona* care so much that Angela is her biological daughter? I get why Angela thinks it's a big deal, but Goliath had to "learn" to think in that way, and his attitude is more traditional among the clan. Presumably, Demona should have the same type of attitude. What then makes Demona value Angela as her blood daughter as well as rookery daughter almost immediately in a way that seemed to take Goliath forever?
Greg responds...
Demona was ALWAYS a bit atypical of gargoyles, even back in the tenth century. Plus she's spent centuries inundated by humanity's biological offspring imperative.
But really, all that's beside the point. As with Goliath, she might regard all the Avalon Clan as her children. But Angela is the only one she KNOWS about.
Rebel writes...
Unfortunately, my comic book guy didn't get the TPB in yet, so I'll have to wait until next week to offer my praises. *sigh* So far I've heard good things from everyone else who already has it.
In the meantime, I do have a question about #7 that I meant to ask before. After Brooklyn decides to stay in Manhattan, Goliath says that Hudson can lead the expedition in London. I know Brooklyn has great leadership skills (after all he is the second) and Hudson is a proven leader, but to me that line made it seem like Goliath doesn't think any of the other clan members could be leaders, if given the chance. Surely Broadway and Lexington have SOME leadership capabilities, even if they are not as suited for a leadership role as Brooklyn. And if I had to guess, I would say Angela could DEFINITELY be a good leader, given an opportunity. After all, she's smart, intuitive, and she's got great parentage as well as her experience as second-in-command of Avalon on her side--though her leadership "style" would certainly be different than Goliath's or Brooklyn's.
So basically what I'm wondering is:
1. Does Goliath think any of the other clan members have leadership abilities?
2. Do YOU think any of the other clan members have (or will have) leadership abilities?
3. If any of them do, do you think they'll ever get a chance to show it?
I know it's kind of a silly question since the Manhattan clan already has a second-in-command, but I was just wondering. I informed a lot of my internet friends about the TPB, and many of them are now making plans to buy it :).
Greg responds...
1. I'm sure he does, but Goliath has a tendency to rely on Hudson for, I think, understandable reasons. Consider it a failing, if you like. I'm fine with that.
2. Yes.
3. Of course.
JANUARY 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 28th...
1995
Lexington begins to repair Jackal's helicopter. Elisa Maza confronts Fox in prison. Fox reveals that David Xanatos created the Pack, and is using Jackal and Hyena to cement Derek Maza's loyalty. Elisa records Fox's conversation. Derek flies Xanatos to his upstate retreat, 'Xanadu'. Again, Jackal and Hyena attack. And again, the Manhattan Clan intervenes, using the repaired helicopter to defeat and capture the twins.
1996
In the morning, Rory Dugan returns home and argues with his father, Mr. Dugan. That evening at sunset, Elisa Maza, Goliath and Angela wake up to find themselves trapped inside Cairn na Chullain by the Banshee, who is convinced they have been sent by Oberon to bring her back to Avalon for the Gathering. Rory, looking for Molly, encounters Bronx instead. When the Banshee realizes that Rory and "the Great Beast" are together, she appears to Rory and lures him away from Bronx.
JANUARY 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 27th...
1995
Derek Maza starts working for David Xanatos. Jackal and Hyena attack them, but the Trio intervenes. Lexington manages to land Jackal's helicopter and hide it.
1996
In Ireland, Rory Dugan and his girlfriend Molly steal a jacket from a local shop and manage to elude the police - just as the four travelers arrive from Avalon. The Banshee quickly captures Elisa Maza, Angela and Goliath.
JANUARY 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 24th...
1995
Elisa Maza gives the Trio a helicopter simulation video game.
1996
Goliath, Angela, Elisa Maza and Bronx rest through the day in London, allowing Goliath's injured wing to heal. That night, they return to Avalon. Griff, Leo and Una become protectors of London again.
JANUARY 21
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 21st...
1995
Goliath, Hudson and Demona turn to stone mid-battle. When the sun sets, Goliath awakens healed. Demona is forced to flee.
1996
Elisa Maza and the gargoyles arrive in Paris during the day. Elisa starts to call her parents, but when she spots Macbeth and Demona together, she follows them to Macbeth's Chateau. Then she follows Demona to Notre Dame Cathedral, where she loses her trail. After sundown, she rejoins the gargoyles and fills them in. Goliath attempts to confront Demona at the Cathedral and is surprised to find her allied (and apparently in love) with Thailog. Angela overhears their confrontation and realizes that Demona is her biological mother. Goliath and his friends depart. Demona informs Thailog that she has successfully set up their new international corporation: Nightstone Unlimited, owned and operated by Dominique Destine and "Alexander" Thailog.
JANUARY 18
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 18th...
1996
Angela, Bronx, Elisa Maza and Goliath sink the mini-sub, and return to Avalon.
JANUARY 17
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 17th...
1975
Edger Blosa dies in Prague.
1996
Angela is imprisoned alongside Nessie, a Loch Ness Monster. That day Elisa Maza spots members of David Xanatos' Security Team resupplying in town. She follows them to Anton Sevarius' secret submarine dock. After nightfall, she returns with Goliath and Bronx, but all three are captured. Sevarius, who has informed Angela that she is Goliath's daughter, takes her along as he attempts to use Nessie to capture her mate Big Daddy in the Loch. Goliath and the others escape, and use a mini-submarine to foil Sevarius' plans. The monster-sub sinks along with every member of the Security Team, except their leader Bruno. The Loch Ness Monsters are reunited and set free.
JANUARY 16
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 16th...
1996
Though the travelers have spent only the hours between sunrise and sunset on Avalon, days have passed in the real world. Goliath, Elisa Maza, Angela and Bronx depart Avalon and find themselves on Loch Ness, back in Scotland. Elisa attempts to leave a message with Matt Bluestone's answering machine, but his message tape is full and the message is not recorded. Later, their skiff is capsized by a Loch Ness Monster. In the confusion, Angela is captured by a monster-shaped submarine and brought back to Dr. Anton Sevarius, who runs DNA tests on her that prove she is the biological daughter of Goliath.
Phil writes...
Okay, let's try this.
What did Angela whisper to Broadway just before he decided no to go to England with Macbeth?
(You'd better tell us now, before the mystery gets all blown out of proportion.)
Greg responds...
<chuckle>
I really didn't think this was much of a mystery. I don't know her exact words, but it was something like: "If Goliath isn't well, we should really back Brooklyn up here, so he isn't on his own if there's trouble."
It was all very well-meaning. With the density (that I have often observed) common in the newly coupled, they don't realize the effect they're having on poor Brook. Too busy staring into each others' eyes, I guess.
Of course, Angela knows or knew that Brook had a crush on her, but she also ONLY viewed it as a crush and didn't take it too seriously, and again -- without thinking too deeply about it, assuming she's thinking at all about it -- must assume he's over it by now. Lex seems to be.
B.W. perhaps should be more sensitive, but he's equally blind to it. And to be fair, Brooklyn's keeping his angst to himself. What's obvious to the reader, isn't always obvious to the characters. Look at what tips you off, and look and see if the other characters are privy to that knowledge.
It's only in this scene that Goliath finally figures it out.
Having typed the above, I'm half-inclined to delete it all. To some extent, it feels like I'm cheating as a storyteller by explaining this. Either it's working or it's not. So if I DON'T delete, it's totally due to how you phrased the question, Phil. This isn't a mystery worth years of speculation -- assuming even the Titania/Fox thing was worth that. So there you have it. Unless I delete. In which case, you don't.
JANUARY 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 3rd...
1995
Macbeth attacks the gargoyles at the Eyrie Building, capturing Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx. Elisa Maza, who is largely recovered but still on crutches from being shot, again tries to convince Goliath to leave the castle. He won't listen, but after Goliath departs to find the others, she manages to convince Hudson and Broadway that the castle is no longer their home. They take the Grimorum Arcanorum from Owen Burnett and leave the castle. Meanwhile, Bronx escapes and leads Goliath back to Macbeth's mansion. Macbeth and Goliath battle, Macbeth revealing that his true target is Demona. Macbeth's mansion is damaged by fire, and the gargoyles escape.
1996
The travelers depart Avalon again, arriving on Queen Florence Island off the west coast of Canada, where they immediately encounter Grandmother in the form of a Sea Monster. Elisa is separated from the others and washes ashore, where she is found by Grandmother and Natsilane, the chief of the local Haida band. Elisa is alive, but gravely ill. Grandmother helps heal her. That night, Goliath, Angela and Bronx encounter Raven posing as a gargoyle.
JANUARY 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 2nd...
1996
The Captain has a change of heart and rescues Goliath. The Captain's spirit ascends. Hakon is trapped alone in the caverns below Wyvern. The quartet of travelers return to Avalon so that they may attempt to find Manhattan again. Meanwhile in Paris, Demona encounters Thailog. They quickly form an alliance.
JANUARY 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 1st...
1996
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
DECEMBER 30
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 30th...
1995
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.
DECEMBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 29th...
1995
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to steal the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate from the Archmage. They fail. Meanwhile, Elisa Maza and the Magus succeed in waking the Sleeping King, Arthur Pendragon.
DECEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 28th...
1065
Westminster Abbey, built by Edward the Confessor, is consecrated.
1994
David Xanatos, who is scheduled to be released from jail in one week, is contacted by Macbeth, who offers to rid the castle of gargoyles.
1995
Goliath and Tom the Guardian meet at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. Together with Elisa Maza and Bronx, they depart for Avalon, where they are introduced to the grown hatchlings of the Wyvern Clan, including Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca, and reunited with the Magus and Princess Katharine. Meanwhile, a recently transformed Archmage travels back in time...
Queen of Night writes...
Okay, you've said that Angela and Broadway will raise their children the Gargoyle way. But all three are named after the Arthurian tales, not assuming that they named them themselves, but wouldn't that be a bit coincidental? I mean I could understand if all the clutch was named after the Arthurian but there are only so many names in the Arthurian tales, and three full clutches at that. With that said the three are named after the main characters (Merlin aside). So how can you explain that?
Also with Angela's parental issues. Being raised with Tom as her adopted father and Kathrine as her adpotive mother she would seem to prefer raising her children as she was raised. I do realize that part of it would be because Kathrine, Tom, and Magus were the only adults she could identify with but when she found out Goliath was her father she was extremely insistant that she be recognized by him. Angela also wanted a relationship with Demona despite her past. Not only that she wanted to help Demona specifically because she was her mother. So how would she cope with not recognizing her children or her children not recognizing her? Seems to me that she would want the close relationship with her kids as she had (or attempted to have) with her parents.
Greg responds...
There are HUNDREDS of names in Arthurian legend. HUNDREDS. And I COULD explain it a hundred ways. But I choose not to at this time.
What makes you think that Angela won't have a close relationship with her kids, however they're raised?
NOVEMBER 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 2nd...
1996
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
6:46am EST - [withheld]
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NOVEMBER 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 1st...
975
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
1975
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
1995
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
1996
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
OCTOBER 31
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 31st...
1994
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
1995
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
1996
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
1997
Xanatos' probation expires.
Broadway's Angel(a) writes...
You said in your FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) archives that Broadway and Angela would probably raise their children the gargoyle way, "children of the clan, not individuals," by not favoring biological children over the rest of the clan's children, but does that mean they won't identify their own biological children. I believe that if they didn't recognize their biological children, they wouldn't have been so particular about the naming of their own children (Artus, Gwenyvere, and Lancelot) after Arthurian characters in reference to Broadway and Angela's connections to Arthur, Broadway being inspired to read from hearing about the Scrolls of Merlin and Angela living on Avalon where Arthur slept. So, do Angela and Broadway recognize their biological children but attempt to parent all clan children instead of favoring their biological children, or is the naming of all their children after Arthurian characters coincidence?
Greg responds...
You're assuming that Broadway and Angela named them. Facts not in evidence.
Galahad writes...
I know you don't want to go into the specifics of Samson's parentage because it doesn't matter in Gargoyle culture but from what I've read on GargWiki <http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/> about Canon-in-training characters, you've hinted that "Artus will most closely resemble Broadway and Hudson," "Gwenyvere may most closely resemble Angela and Demona," and Lancelot "may resemble Goliath to some degree." (Did they misquote you?) You've said that Samson would also resemble Goliath. Sense Lancelot, among Broadway and Angela's children, resembles Goliath the most, wouldn't it be logical for fans to assume that Samson is the son of Lancelot, who he probably resembles as they both resemble Goliath? You don't have to say if I'm right or not, just tell me whether or not my logic is flawed in some way.
Greg responds...
Well, it's not that your logic isn't... logical, but of course it is flawed. I'm sure people in most families can point to someone who doesn't particularly look like his or her parents, but could be a dead ringer for old photos of a grandparent.
OCTOBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 29th...
1995
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
1996
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
OCTOBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 24th...
1994
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
1996
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
OCTOBER 17
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 16th...
1996
When the real Hudson and Goliath return to the Clock Tower, they find Coldstone and are soon convinced that Othello controls his body. They follow Coldstone back to the Eyrie. Minutes later, Iago, Othello and Desdemona return to the Tower in their appropriated bodies. They free Lex, who surmises that Iago must now be in control of Coldstone and has tricked Goliath and Hudson into declaring war on Xanatos. The real Iago, still posing as Brooklyn, suggests that they destroy the Coldstone body once and for all. Othello agrees, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that this action would strand the various souls in their new bodies. At the Eyrie, Puck uses the Coldsteel and Coldfire robots to capture Goliath and Hudson. The others arrive soon after. Iago knocks Lex unconscious to take him out of the action, but when Lex recovers, the spirit of Alexander enters his body. Puck, meanwhile, uses Coldstone's body to take down Angela/Desdemona and Broadway/Othello. Brooklyn/Iago tries to make off with Desdemona, but Puck uses Coldsteel and Coldfire to stop him. After some further conflict, Lex/Alex transfers Iago, Othello and Desdemona into Coldsteel, Coldstone and Coldfire, respectively. Coldsteel flees, and Coldstone and Coldfire take off in pursuit. Puck returns Alexander to the nursery and transforms back into Owen just before Xanatos and Fox return.
OCTOBER 16
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 16th...
1996
Xanatos and Owen make a third attempt to transfer the souls of Iago and Desdemona into independent robot bodies. It too fails. Later, David and Fox go out for the evening, leaving Alexander in Owen's care. Owen decides to teach Alexander his first lesson in magic. Owen transforms into Puck, then glamours himself and Alexander into dead-ringers for Goliath and Hudson. They "liberate" Coldstone from the Eyrie and take him to the Clock Tower. There, "Goliath" convinces Angela and Broadway to allow the souls of Desdemona and Othello to take up temporary residence inside their bodies. Coldstone is emptied of all three souls, and the Iago soul secretly enters Brooklyn. "Goliath" and "Hudson" then depart, leaving "Brooklyn" in charge. Iago convinces Othello and Desdemona to try out their new bodies. He then follows them to the Statue of Liberty, where he hints that they might keep Broadway and Angela's bodies for themselves. Meanwhile, Puck and Alexander enter Coldstone's body; they grab Lex, tie him up in a corner and gag him.
Rebel writes...
Okey dokey! In my previous post, I had far too many topics in one question, so I am hoping that I have made this particular question inclusive enough to make the cut.
Anyway, hi Greg! I have some questions about hair in Gargoyles (insignificant topic, I know). Why do the artists keep making Angela's hair brown? In the show it looks black. Brooklyn has white hair in youth, whereas in "City of Stone", Demona's red hair turned white with age...so...was Hudson's hair always white or did it change with age? If it changed, what color was it; I would like to know this for possible fan art. Will any of Demona's descendants inherit her spiky red hair? I love the color and the spiky-ness of it and I'm really hoping a major future character gets it (note I am not asking you to specify WHO gets it, just whether *someone* will). And finally, will Brooklyn's children have black hair? It seems like most of the Asian gargoyles have black hair but I'm really hoping Brooklyn's children don't, as it seems kinda over-done in the Gargoyles universe.
Greg responds...
Angela and Goliath both have dark brown hair. Sometimes colorists emphasize the brown... sometimes the dark, which makes it look black. Personally, I prefer when it's nearly black myself, but it is brown.
Brooklyn's hair is white.
Whether Hudson had white hair as a youth is something that we'll have to wait and see about.
And I'm hardly likely to reveal or even commit to hair colors for Demona's descendents or Brooklyn's children. Why tie the hands of my colorists down the road?
OCTOBER 13
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 13th...
1996
When Demona refuses to allow Thailog to kill Angela, he reveals an additional clone: Delilah, created from a combination of Demona and Elisa's DNA. Demona frees Talon, Goliath and the clan. They manage to recapture Fang and take down the clones. But while fighting each other, Demona and Thailog seemingly perish in a fire. Talon offers to take the other clones back to the Labyrinth where he promises to teach them to think for themselves.
OCTOBER 12
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 12th...
1995
Xanatos acquires the Cauldron of Life and prepares to test it by ordering the construction of a pair of Macbeth robots and a statue of Hudson. He also begins looking for a sword that will match Hudson's to be used with the statue.
1996
Relieving Talon, Goliath takes his shift guarding the Labyrinth prisoners. Thailog busts Demona and Fang out. Talon and Goliath pursue them to Coney Island. Goliath departs and quickly returns with Angela, the Trio and Hudson. All are captured by Fang, Demona, Thailog and his clones: Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank (made from the DNA of Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn and Hudson, respectively).
SEPTEMBER 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 23rd...
1995
The Scrolls of Merlin are being transported aboard the H.M.S. Churchill en route to the Metropolitan Museum in New York when they are stolen by Macbeth's minions. The gargoyles intercede. Hudson recovers one of the Scrolls but falls into the ocean. Broadway tries to get the other scroll, but Macbeth captures him.
2007
Autumnal Equinox: Artus conceived.
Brandy Entity writes...
My question did Katherine ever find out that Magus loved her? And I remember him saying that Katherine and Tom raised the hatchlings like a family. Well didn't he have a place with them, too? And also do you think things might have been different if Magus ever told Katherine his feelings to her?
Greg responds...
I'll leave it to everyone to decide for themselves what Katherine knew and/or when.
Yes, he was like another father to Angela and the rest.
As I've said many times, I'm not too interested in hypotheticals.
aj writes...
hey greg,
i thought angela had a thing for brooklyn why does she end up with broadway
Greg responds...
<<<We were never hinting toward Brooklyn/Angela. Quite the reverse. Gary Sperling and I made this decision together when he was working on Turf. But it just felt right. Broadway seemed the guy who was most attentive to Angela as an individual. The person most in touch with his so-called feminine side. Brooklyn was just after any chick with wings, frankly. And I think Lex pursued her because his brothers were and it seemed like the right thing to do. Only Broadway was interested in who Angela was. In my mind, he's clearly the most mature when it comes to this stuff. Brooklyn's a leader. And I love the guy, but he confuses a crush with deep abiding love. He needs a little more emotional maturity before he's ready for this "Gargoyles mate for life" thing.>>>
Or if you prefer:
<<<Angela and Brooklyn were NEVER an "item". NEVER. Brooklyn certainly had a crush on her. But so did Lex and Broadway. And Broadway's feelings for her were deeper almost from the night they met. And if you caught the look they exchanged at the end of "Possessions" you would have seen that the only "item" in works was Angela & Broadway.>>>
Walter writes...
Would Demona kill Angela if it meant the achievement of her goal, or would that be too much even for her?
Greg responds...
What do you think?
Greg Bishansky writes...
This is more a ramble reply to Alex Garg's post, but I definitely think this is a fascinating subject, and could make a great Ask Greg discussion.
Honestly, at this point, I don't think anyone in the Manhattan Clan cares much about any of the clones. Any of them. What was the first thing said when Thailog appeared to perish and the clones had no where to go? "We can't just bring them back to the Clock Tower can we? I mean, they kind of give me the creeps."
Right there, the Manhattan Clan wanted nothing to do with them. Wanted to pretend they didn't exist. Let Talon take them to live in a sewer. Out of sight, out of mind. Not that the reaction is not understandable, it is. I think we'd all be uncomfortable around clones of ourselves made against our will and knowledge. It's a fundamental violation of our individuality.
Did any of the Manhattan Clan go down to see them between "The Reckoning" and "Invitation Only"? I'd be very surprised if the answer is yes. The one time they do go down, they want something. Goliath is following Elisa's request to attempt to date Delilah. Brooklyn... just wants to make a play for the only available female he's aware of. They were down there both for selfish reasons.
So, yeah, all of their talk about free will probably was less for the clones' sake, and more towards the Manhattan Clan's hatred for Thailog. They hate Thailog, so naturally they don't want the clones to be helping him. At this point, do they have any other reason to care?
Lexington's only real concern when Brentwood chooses Thailog is how it makes him [Lexington] look. Not concern for Brentwood's safety, or eventually having to face him as an enemy. Lex thinks it makes *him* look bad.
I know this is a pretty serious indictment of the Manhattan Clan. I love them, they are heroes, there's a lot to admire in each and every one of them. But, they're not saints. Which is fine, they're more interesting this way... if I wanted a group of pure goodie goods, I'd read a Silver Age Justice League of America comic book.
Greg responds...
I don't disagree with any of the above, but I would temper it.
Again, I think Angela has an INTEREST in individuality and wouldn't want Delilah blindly following ANYONE. Delilah may have reacted to Angela as if Angela was giving her another order, but I don't think it's hard to see that that was clearly NOT Angela's intent. And if your looking for proof, just check out Angela's relationship with Goliath. She respects him as a leader. As a hero. A legend. She loves him as a father. But check out the World Tour, particularly Sanctuary. She's hardly following G. blindly.
And Goliath... in his slow, deliberate, bleeding-to-death way... had clearly given all this some thought too. He told Thailog that Delilah would not CHOOSE him (i.e. Thailog). He may seem confident of this (perhaps even over-confident), but there's nothing to indicate that Goliath plans to decide FOR her. And he doesn't decide for Brentwood either. There's preference and action. Two different things.
AUGUST 18
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 15th...
1996
Sevarius completes his involvement with Thailog's project and is paid off. Thailog begins programming his new clones. Meanwhile, Angela and Demona are still debating the latter's behavior. Claw arrives to take over guarding the prisoners for the day shift. Angela elects to sleep as stone in front of her mother's cell.
Derek writes...
How come Angela was the only Avalon Garg to want to leave Avalon, don't any of the otheres have that kind of Wanderlust?
Greg responds...
Guess not. Maybe she takes after her mum.
Derek writes...
Hi Greg
I was just wondering why Thailog didn't clone Angela, i know Demona didn't release the bug when she watching her but even still if he could get Eliza's dna without her knowing he could do the same for Angela. If he was expecting Demona to betray him anyway even with Delilah he was at a one "man" disadvantage from a tactical point of view it just would have made more sense for Thailog to clone Angela too.
Greg responds...
When would he have gotten Angela's DNA?
You can pinpoint EXACTLY when he got Elisa's, BTW, if you watch the episode carefully.
SPOILERS
Of course, NOW he has everyone's DNA, everyone in the Manhattan Clan, that is.
AUGUST 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 3rd...
1996
Brod attacks Dracon in prison. But, the gargoyles help Elisa take down Brod, Dracon and most of their men. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower, by which time Goliath, Hudson and Bronx have also returned. The Trio apologizes to Angela for their behavior. She forgives each of them with a peck on the cheek - just before the sun rises. Elisa's operation is a phenomenal success. Jack Dane, Pal Joey, Glasses and many other Brod and Dracon operatives are incarcerated. Dracon and Brod are even forced to share a cell.
AUGUST 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 2nd...
1996
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
JULY 15
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 15th...
1996
The Manhattan Clan imprisons Demona in the Labyrinth and agrees to help Talon and the Mutates guard her and Fang. Angela takes the first watch. Elisa is bitten by a robotic mosquito that samples her DNA. Demona regains consciousness in her cell. Angela introduces herself.
Gerin writes...
Hi Greg,
thanks again for taking the time to communicate with the community. Today, I have a few questions about the gargoyle designs:
1) On the show, the further the show progresses, the more varied the gargoyle design becomes. Originally, the gargoyles have a rather human look, but with time some of them cross the border to animalic. I'm thinking about the London Gargoyles in particular. How did these character design decisions, for example for lion-, eagle- and horse-heads and the bird wings, come about? Did you, the production crew, argue about such designs among each other? Or was it something that everybody accepted immediately?
2) I believe I remember a piece of promotional art that features Bronx with very small wings on the back. Why was it decided to remove those wings?
3) For the show, when you came upon a story that involved new gargoyles, what was the design process? Was there a lot of moving-sketches-back-and-forth, approving and rejecting designs, or were you usually contend with the first design you got?
4) Unfortunately, so far I have only seen the covers of the comic. But I wonder: why has the change to a bare-midriff look for Angela been made? Was it just a hunch of the artists, or were there more serious thoughts behind this?
Thanks in advance for answering and all your work.
Greg responds...
1. I don't remember any fighting over the London designs. MANY, many "gargoyles" in England are based on heraldic forms, and that's what we followed. It all fits into our backward extrapolation for why humans started sculpting faux gargoyles to safeguard their buildings.
2. Bronx never had wings. Bronx did have ears that acted as tiny wings and allowed him to hover a few inches off the ground. It was a comedy-development holdover, and Frank Paur jetissoned it when he came aboard.
3. Some of each.
4. It was a discussion between Greg Guler and myself to consciously make her look a bit sexier and more grown up, as she embarked on a more adult relationship with Broadway. And if her new look called up memories of Demona... well, so much the better.
MAY 17
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 17th...
1996
The gargoyles, Mazas and were-panthers converges on the ancient ruins of Kara Digi. There they discover that Fara was largely manipulated by the Spider-Trickster Anansi. All concerned join forces to defeat Anansi. Fara and Tea remain were-panthers but are reconciled and vow to protect the jungle. Just before sunrise, Goliath finally acknowledges Angela as his daughter. After sunrise, Elisa tells her mother everything about her life with the gargoyles. At sunset, Elisa and the gargoyles once more return to Avalon. Diane Maza phones New York, informing her husband of Elisa's situation. Peter Maza contacts Matt Bluestone and Talon. Matt contacts Brooklyn, Lex, Broadway and Hudson.
MAY 7
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
May 7th...
1996
Demona and Thailog return to Manhattan and hire Dr. Sevarius away from Gen-U-Tech. Sevarius reveals that the female gargoyle that Demona saw in Paris is the biological child of her and Goliath.
Meg writes...
I know you've said that Demona cast a spell on the Manhattan Clan right before they woke up in the 20th century that allowed them to understand modern English. My question is, how does Angela understand modern English? I would assume that she grew up speaking Old English, as she was raised by Tom/the Magus/Katharine.
Greg responds...
Avalon compensates when it sends people to where they need to be...
(How's that?)
Oh, and by the way, Demona casting a spell is just a possible answer to the original modern English question. Not a definitive answer.
Luke writes...
Let me start with I love the newest comic! I'm very excited to see what happens from here on out!
I was noticing something that you had posted on the wall. You said that Demona was Hudson's daughter, I might have miss read that but considering I did not. Wouldn't that make Broadway his sister, then considering that making Angela his niece?
I was also thinking would Sevarius know about the connection between Hudson, Demona, and Broadway?
Greg responds...
Demona is Hudson's ROOKERY DAUGHTER. They're not biologically related (or if they are it's pretty distant). Angela is Hudson's rookery granddaughter. No biological relationship there either. Broadway is both Hudson's rookery son AND his biological son, although the latter relationship is of no import to anyone except gargoyle fans. Therefore no biological relationship between Broadway and Angela.
Liz writes...
Okay, I read Issue #3 the day it came out, and my only complaint is that it's too short! ;) I do have a few questions about Angela, and in part, Broadway.
1. Angela is sort of like a good version of Demona, the two of them occupying opposite ends of the Good/Evil spectrum. She's somewhat naive, where her mother is wise and jaded: she's a sweetheart who can sometimes have a temper, but Demona's bitter and angry. I have noticed that there are some subtle similarities between the two of them, though. In the comic, Angela seems annoyed and insulted that they have to disguise themselves, and like Demona she seems to have a lot of pride in the fact that she's a gargoyle. Demona's younger self wasn't unkind, but she resented the fact that her kind didn't fit in with humans and yet they had to protect them anyway. Angela grew up loving humans, but had a rude awakening when she entered the 'real' world, and was treated like just another monster. What I'm getting at is, what are the odds of Angela becoming bitter towards humans in the future, even if it's the distant future?
2. Did you notice that Angela's lips are red on the cover of the comic, like in the cartoon, but inside they're purple? I was wondering if you knew whether or not this was intentionally done. Personally, I think she looks better with red lips, like Demona, and if they were going by skin color Demona's lips would be blue, hehe...Sorry if it sounds like I'm nitpicking, because I'm not, I was just intrigued.
3. I'll try to keep this as polite as possible, I know this is a touchy subject for here. As of Issue #3, has Angela been intimate with Broadway, other than kissing? I'm not asking for specifics, just a yes or no. :) I just noticed that they were holding hands a lot, and basically seemed to be joined at the hip!
Really enjoying it so far!
Greg responds...
1. I'll let you set the odds.
2. I didn't notice. Being color deficient sucks, I guess.
3. I don't think they've had sex yet, if that's what you're asking.
Zephyranthes writes...
Hi Greg,
This is more of an observation than a question.
In the episode Upgrade, Goliath had to choose a second in command. He stated that he didn't want to choose recklessly because it might put a rift between the trio. And he said that "I see now that nothing can come between you three." I guess he didn't count on the fact that Angela is alive and that she might someday fall in love with one of the trio and that might throw a rift between them.
Greg responds...
I'm not sure Angela does throw a RIFT into things. They argue when she first shows up, and inevitably they are growing up and won't be joined at the hip anymore, but they'll always be the best of friends.
Patrick G writes...
"The Reckoning" is one of my favorite episodes, especially because of all the great stuff involving Demona and her very complex character. I especially love the scene where she frees the clan, imploring Goliath to "save their daughter!" There's one thing that has been confusing me that I was hoping you could clear up. When Demona is trying to stop Thailog from shooting Angela, he said that she knew she was her daughter before they staged her capture, and Angela is outraged because Demona knew the whole time. However, I missed how this could have happened. I have a much easier time believing that Demona was genuinely confused in Paris, and the next time she saw her was in "The Reckoning." It seems to me to be more logical that given the order of events, Demona did indeed find out about Angela being her daughter when she told her in the jail, as opposed to finding out beforehand. How did Demona know before they staged her capture?
Greg responds...
Sevarius knew, remember (from "Monsters")? And Demona, Thailog and Sevarius planned "Reckoning"'s whole cloning thing together. SO... sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Sevarius filled her in.
Caesu writes...
I've been a fan of Gargoyles since it was first broadcast. And I still enjoy watching it even now years later, and look forward to the long awaited DVD release. The show is very original, and I think it had a lot of life left in it still when it ended. Which brings on my question Ive thought about off and on while watching the show. Do you ever think the relationship between Demona and Angela was given absolution? There was no real closure in The Reckoning, and the episode Generations strung along without adding any development.
Greg responds...
I don't count "Generations" myself one way or another. And I'm not sure exactly what you mean in this context by "absolution," but there was no intent for true closure in "The Reckoning". None. I don't see "closure" happening anytime soon, but keep an eye out in the comic book for the relationship to progress.
Daniel writes...
Who does Angela like more.
Greg responds...
There's a smart-ass response in there somewhere. But I'm too lazy to come up with it right now. So I'll just say Broadway and leave it at that.
Chimaraz writes...
I don't know if this question has been dealt with, but I looked through the archives and didn't see it so I thought I'd give it a whirl.
If one of the other Avalon gargoyles had gone with Goliath and Elisa instead of Angela, would Demona have felt the same way towards that gargoyle as she does towards Angela? I mean, Demona was raised traditionally, so she sould see all of the Eggs as her children, but does the biological aspect factor into why Demona's so fixated on Angela? Would she have reacted in just the same way to Ophelia, Gabriel or any of the others?
Greg responds...
It's a fair question. And I think she would have reacted similarly with any of the "eggs"... but I do think that three factors gave Angela a little extra oomph for Demona.
1) Angela treated Demona as her mother. "I'm told there's a resemblance." The others might not have, without the bio-connection, given Demona's history.
2) Demona has spent a 1000 years around humans. Despite herself, some of it may have rubbed off.
3) Demona was not around to comunally raise the eggs. So she has less emotional connection to the other gargs then she normally would have had.
Ultimately, however, I think it still comes down to the same kind of thing that Diane Maza pointed out to Goliath in "Mark of the Panther": "[Angela] is the only one of your children with you."
Normally, I don't like hypotheticals, but this was a pretty good question.
Angelmoon writes...
I have a question about Angela:) How old was she when she first appeared on the Avalon series? Just curious:) I appreciate you taking time to look over this and answer:) Thanks:)
Greg responds...
I assume you mean "How old was she when she first appeared in 'Avalon, Part One'?"
Angela was biologically 19-years-old.
Although, in fact she was chronologically 917.
matt writes...
Hi Greg. You said in the archives that as of the time you left the show (The Journey, i'm assuming) that Demona didn't know about Broadway and Angela's relationship, and the only other person who knew was Brooklyn.
1. How did Brook find out? Did Broadway and Angela tell him? Was the scene in "The Journey" how Brook find out?
2. When would the rest of the Clan find out about them? Would they try to keep it quiet for awhile or would they even care who knew?
3. Had Angela had any romantic connections with any of her rookery brothers on Avalon?
Greg responds...
1. Yes, the scene in "The Journey".
2. I don't think it was a major secret. But honestly, I haven't given much thought to the order of how and when everyone learned about it.
3. No. Nothing even vaguely serious.
DPH writes...
Since you have updated your timeline since you last answered the question about Angela and Ophelia possibly being "in heat" in 2008 (02-02-00), I thought I would ask that question again since that part of the timeline might have changed.
1)When is the earliest time that Angela and Ophelia could have laid an egg?
2)Will Angela, Ophelia, or both of them be capable of laying an egg in 2008?
Greg responds...
The earliest for either is 2008 and, yes, both are potentially capable of laying eggs in that year.
NiteShayde writes...
Hi!
It's me again! I was just wondering...was it intentional for Angela and Demona's names to be Angel and Demon with added a's? It's pretty cool since Angela is like an angel and Demona is like a demon. As MacBeth pointed out "You fight like a demon."
Thank you for answering my questions.
Greg responds...
You're welcome.
And, yes, it was intentional, the parallelism, all of it.
Lori writes...
Well Demona and Angela ever get along as mother and daughter?
Greg responds...
Not saying.
Siren writes...
1.)Did Magus, Tom, and the Princess know Angela was Goliath and Demona's daughter?
2.)Did they know Gabriel was Desdemona's and Othello's son?
3.) Did we ever meet Ophelia's parents? Besides the Britain Clan and Zafiro, she is one of the most interesting looking.
Greg responds...
1. Given her looks and coloring, it's not a great leap.
2. Ditto.
3. I haven't given it any thought.
Demi writes...
How many of the clan's eggs were Goliath and Demona's??
Greg responds...
I assume you're referring to the 36 eggs that Princess Katharine preserved, in which case the answer is one: Angela.
Gargoyle females only lay one egg at a time, generally.
Lex Cousin writes...
You can explain how is the reproduction of a gargoyle, you can specify times (hatch)?, it dont know if this contradicts the rules of the forum, but
seems me interesting. For example Angela's birthday. When it is when Demona put the egg or when breaks?
Greg responds...
I'm sorry, but I'm just not clear what you're asking, but I'll do my best.
I've talked about Gargoyle reproduction before; check out the "Gargoyles Biology" Questions answered archive for details. But basically, gargoyles lay a new generation of eggs every twenty years. Those eggs hatch ten years later.
Demona laid the egg containing Angela in the year 988.
However, because time passes differently on Avalon, Angela didn't hatch until 1078.
adam writes...
why was it that all of the 6 original gargoyles in manhattan were male?
Greg responds...
Well, you're not counting Demona, of course.
Originally, we had two females. Dakota and Coco. Dakota evolved into Demona. Coco evolved into Broadway. At which point, to be honest about our cowardice, we didn't feel comfortable making our only positive female character overweight. In addition, there's a conventional wisdom -- which I don't subscribe to, but which influences my choices because so many in the industry DO subscribe to it -- that states that boys don't want female heroines in their boys action shows. Our primary target (not our only target) was boys 6-11 years old. No one wanted a female hero.
Of course, I love writing female heroes. They're easily my favorite. And I think properties like Buffy or Tomb Raider prove that I ain't wrong about the appeal to both gals and guys.
But, I don't always have the courage of my convictions. Introducing Angela was, in part, a way to make up for a clear void in the original show.
Creamy writes...
If Gargoyles had continued, how would you have developed the Angela-Demona relationship?
Would they ever find a medium? Or be at least friends?
Since the last time Coldfire talk to to Demona was back in 994, what does she think of Demona's new way of life in 1996?
How close were Demona and Coldfire back in the "Dark Ages"?
Greg responds...
1. Carefully.
2. I think Michael Reaves came up with a Medium that we never used. I can't remember her name though at the moment.
3. I'm not going to reveal the long-term result of their interaction.
4. Well, at the moment, I doubt she's aware of it. But assuming she found out, I think she'd be very disturbed.
5. Close as sisters who aren't actually as close as they think.
The Cat writes...
Ok, this question might get a few nasty comments written about it and all but I'm going to post it even if I get rotten vegetables thrown at me. In fact I'm apologizing a head of time for this question.
Ok, Why was Angela such a (there is no nice way to put this or at least I do not know of one) flake?
I'm sorry to write that but out of all the main characters that were female she acted the most like head was in the clouds.
Greg responds...
Well, the question doesn't anger me, but I don't buy the premise. What makes you say that?
She's certainly a touch more innocent -- not a surprise, given her upbringing -- than most of the rest of our characters, but I don't see any evidence at all of flakiness.
matt writes...
will Broadway ever meet Gabriel and the rest of Angela's rookery siblings? if so, what will Gabriel think of Broadway?
Greg responds...
At some point, yes.
Broadway's a pretty personable guy, wouldn't you say?
I would think that Gabriel would like him.
gargoyle fan writes...
hey greg i have been wondering about demona lately so here are my questions
1.In the episode city of stone why did't demona stay in wyvern was in it much safer then in a cave or it it would bring to much painful memories
2.I notice that in city of stone in the cave where demona and her clan lived there was a beach behide it so i am wondering since castle wyvern was next to a beach was the cave near wyvern
3.does demona approve of angla's relationship with broadway
4. in vows why did't demona use the phenoix gate to stop
the death of her clan
Greg responds...
1. The phrase "The Horror. The Horror." comes to mind.
2. I don't recall a beach behind that cave, and I always thought of that one being more interior to Scotland. But in any case, no, it wasn't Wyvern.
3. Well, as of when I left the show, Demona didn't know about Angela's relationship with Broadway. Only Angela, Broadway and Brooklyn knew. But assuming she found out, I think she'd have mixed feelings. Broadway is a Goliath loyalist, for starters.
4. A careful viewing would show she couldn't. If you're asking why she didn't try, I think one answer is that she did. Not by going back to the daylight hours of the massacre, when she couldn't have done anything anyway, but by going back to a point when her past self might -- had time travel worked that way -- have been able to change everything from that point forward.
Chapter XLII: "Sanctuary"
Time to ramble...
This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.
But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.
And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?
During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:
Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.
ROMANCE
Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."
This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.
Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?
After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.
THE GARGOYLE WAY
Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.
He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.
Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?
And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?
THE CATHEDRAL
There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.
But there's some nice stuff going on...
Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?
Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?
Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?
I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."
Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."
Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.
At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.
TOURISTS
Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)
I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"
THE WEDDING NIGHT
We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.
Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"
And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.
The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?
I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.
Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.
Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.
Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?
And he has some great lines too:
"You and what clan?"
"Teamwork is so overrated."
"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)
To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.
Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.
BATTLE
There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.
I love Goliath's two-handed punch.
I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."
But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.
When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:
<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>
Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!
This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.
But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.
Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.
KEITH meet MR. DAVID
I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.
1st Epilogue:
Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."
That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.
And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.
2nd Epilogue:
One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.
This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.
And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."
(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Sanctuary Outline Memo
In prep for my ramble on Sanctuary, here's my notes to Story Editor/Writer Cary Bates on his first outline for "Sanctuary"...
WEISMAN 2-13-95
Notes on "Sanctuary" Outline...
GENERAL
Cary, I'm going to resist the temptation of beating this all out for you. That's how I got so far behind before. And at this stage I doubt I could do it any faster or better than you. So I want you to do a second draft on this outline, addressing ALL of the notes below. I sympathize, in advance. This is a complicated story. But I know we (meaning mostly you) can make it work. Don't take too long. And feel free to call after you've read this. We may be able to work out some of the problems over the phone. Good luck and here goes:
"SANCTUARY"
How does the title fit? What is the theme of the story? Is it about feeling safe? Safe in the arms of someone you love? I like that notion, but we'd have to emphasize it a lot more.
And simultaneously, more of the action should be centered around Notre Dame Cathedral. Economically, we can't afford to design backgrounds for an entire city. So we should keep the action focused on a few locations, that climax at the gargoyle covered cathedral-"sanctuary".
Plus, we don't want newspapers to be generically talking about a "mysterious winged creature". We want them focused on the Creature haunting the Cathedral at night. Maybe they think it's someone posing as Quasimodo, or his spirit or maybe they even think it's a gargoyle come to life or something. Of course, it's really Thailog. (Not Demona, by the way.) He's been there since "Double Jeopardy". Arriving long before Demona and Macbeth arrived.
We need to involve Thailog more at the end. Make him part of the conflict. I think he would have upgraded a bit. Used some of that $20 million to armor himself for battle. Not necessarily robotic armor, but at least a chestplate. Maybe wrist and shin guards. Keep in mind, we want him to be more powerful than Goliath and more threatening than any other villain. We should probably arm him with some big high-tech bazooka/laser/cannon type-thing too.
And we don't have to break up Demona and Thailog at the end. We just need to know that Thailog doesn't really care for her.
Remember, Thailog's plan isn't to kill Demona and Macbeth for the sake of killing them. He wants what they have managed to acquire over the last nine hundred years. If he could add that to the fortune he's parlayed from the money he stole from Xanatos, he might be able to compete with Xanatos financially. He needs to have already merged Demona's holdings with his own. So that his corporation (and we should get a cool, evocative name for it) we'll inherit in the case of her demise. And he wants to inherit Macbeth's stuff too. So if Mac and Dierdre marry, and both die together, (which is the only way they can die) he'll get everything.
Now, I'm not pretending this is easy to accomplish. As I read the outline, I was wondering if we needed a maguffin or two to symbolize this wealth. Maybe Macbeth's Paris Mansion itself. But we managed to figure something out for "Outfoxed" that clearly and dynamically spelled out Halcyon and Fox's "financial conflict". We can do the same thing here. With the same clarity.
OTHER QUESTIONS
Does Macbeth plan on telling "Dierdre" the truth about himself?
Is this the first time since Gruoch that Macbeth has been in love? Since he's an immortal has he avoided close relationships, not wanting to outlive his lover? Or watch her grow old? Or has he been through this before? Maybe not often, but once or twice over the last nine hundred years. How did he handle it in the past? Is he doing something different now? Highlander questions, basically.
Is Macbeth afraid for Dierdre's life? Does he think Demona might try to harm Dierdre to get back at him?
Do Goliath, Elisa and Angela assume at first that Macbeth and human Demona are in cahoots and only realize/remember later that since M&D have no memory of anything between City of Stone and Avalon, that Macbeth might not know that this human woman is in fact Demona?
Do we have an opportunity, maybe when Goliath and Elisa are searching Paris for the villains, for them to be romanitcally affected by the City of Lights?
When it's over, instead of Macbeth simply remaining bitter and once again suicidal, could Goliath point out to him that life offers possibilities... that if Macbeth could fall in love with Demona, he could certainly fall in love with someone else? Someone nice who would make his long life worth living again, at least for a time.
SOME SPECIFICS
A bunch of things, (some of which Cary the Story Editor should have been able to catch from his reading of past scripts, tsk tsk). Some of these notes may be moot after a rewrite of the outline.
Beat 2) Goliath, Elisa and Angela know that Demona and Macbeth left Avalon unconcious and together. Wherever they landed it would also have to be together. (Of course, Goliath and Co. have been travelling for awhile. So there's no guarantee that Macbeth and Demona stayed together after landing wherever they landed. It's just a good bet.)
There's also no reason for Goliath to assume that Macbeth and Demona are involved with each other still. (After all, they hate each other.) Also no reason to assume that Macbeth would be hurt by the association. And though there's no love left between Demona and Goliath, Goliath has no reason to feel sympathy for Macbeth. The audience might. Some of them would know Mac's backstory from City of Stone and sympathyze, but Goliath doesn't know the whole story. And he's got no reason to think more of Macbeth than Demona. Ironically, it is Thailog, more evil than any of the others, who Goliath would have the most sympathy for. He sees Thailog as a victim of poor upbringing. He'd like to reform and rescue his "son".
On the other hand, by this time Goliath believes that they land everywhere for a purpose. If he sees Macbeth and/or Demona, it's not too big a leap for him to figure that whatever the purpose, it involves these villains.
Beat 4) Again, here we'd like the headlines to be more specific to the Cathedral.
Beat 5) Elisa would recognize the human Demona from "High Noon".
Beat 7) We are forcing the creation of a lot of different sets and backgrounds here. Also don't forget that Demona's transformations to gargoyle (and back) are painful. Also don't forget that Macbeth feels any pain that Demona feels and vice versa. Distance reduces the pain, but we've never been really specific about how much distance or what the reduction is. Does Macbeth, across town, feel a little of Demona's pain at transformation? If so, he could blame Demona, knowing as he does, that he feels her pain. All that would tell him is that Demona is in the vicinity. It wouldn't reveal that Demona is Dierdre, unless he saw her transform. On the other hand, Demona might be far enough away that Macbeth feels nothing. Or just a slight twinge of soreness, that he doesn't immediately connect with Demona. We can play it any of these ways, we just need to deal with this "Corsican Brother"-style pain-sharing. We can't ignore it.
Beat 10) We've got a lot of set-up with little action up to this point. Maybe we can streamline a bit. Also, it feels like Mac's hovercraft might be a little unwieldy for this sequence. Maybe he's on the flying equivalent of a jet-ski or something a bit more svelt.
But there's another big question. What is Macbeth's objective towards Demona at this point? He knows that the only way to rid himself of her is to die himself. He may have forgotten the lessons of City of Stone and Avalon, but I would think that his love for Dierdre would prevent him from wanting to die. Later we imply that he's chasing Demona in order to chase her out of town. But that's pretty goofy logic. "I haven't seen you in weeks. So I'm going to hunt you down, to make sure you stay out of my life."
Beat 11) We definitely want to do something with the Eiffel Tower. Maybe even stage a battle there in the first or second act. But the Tower is open to tourists at night. Does anyone see them hanging there? Or are we way into wee hours by this time?
Beat 13) Goliath can't steal this guys camcorder. He's not a thief. Even destroying it is pretty malicious for Goliath, who's never gone too far out of his way to hide from humans.
Beat 16) Gargoyles don't kiss. They stroke hair. And it's "Notre Dame" ("Our Lady"), not "Notre Damn" ("Our Damnation"?)
Beat 17) The Cathedral is a very temporary safe house for Thailog while some safer, new place is being built for him. (Or maybe that's part of what Thailog is after: Macbeth's Paris Mansion.) It is not abandoned. Thailog is safe their during the day, because he's like a needle in a gargoyle haystack. After dark, he can stay out of sight in the upper reaches, until the Cathedral closes for the night. But he can't have much of a set-up there. Computers? Paintings? I don't think so. Particularly when we've got reports of a creature climbing around the church at night. People might investigate. They wouldn't find Thailog. But what would they make of that computer?
Beat 18) Demona may have no desire to "see" Goliath, since she found Thailog. But she'd still want him dead. Plus she MUST be curious about this female gargoyle. She thinks she knows all the gargoyles that exist, and none of them are female. She'd have to know. (And for that matter, so would Thailog.)
Beat 19) Think about how silly it would look in live action, if a villain who looked like Thailog, whipped out a brush and in a few seconds added a necklace to a painting. It's equally silly looking in animation. Maybe moreso because it's so easy to do.
I don't understand the pre-nuptual agreement at all. Why does Macbeth feel he needs it? (And don't tell me his lawyers push him around.) Besides, the whole idea of it goes against what we want to have happen in the story. Thailog wants Mac and Demona to get married. And have Demona inherit so that he can inherit from her, when both Demona and Mac die. Or am I missing something? I don't think we want this to be about stealing money from a safe. That's small potatos for Thailog and Demona. Either we need to have some irreplaceable (possibly magical) maguffin in that safe, or we should be dealing with the whole ball of wax. The former would probably be easier, but I'd like to go for the latter ball of wax if we can.
Beat 20) Again, I don't buy Macbeth's logic for hunting down Demona.
Beat 21) Angela can't operate a camcorder. She's not Lex. (And as noted above, I don't see anyway for our guys to have this anyhow.) Plus she wouldn't recognize Thailog. Also it feels like a pretty big jump for Goliath to figure that Demona and Thailog are working together. Not an impossible jump, but a big one.
Also, I was unclear. Did Goliath have a chance to give instructions to Elisa or did he turn to stone before he had time?
Beat 23) Again, I don't believe Macbeth lets lawyers push him around. And I don't think we need this pre-nup agreement in the story.
Beat 24) I really don't like this camcorder. And I don't know why Elisa needs it here. Like if she followed Mac and Dem, returned to Goliath without visual proof he wouldn't believe her story?
Beat 25) "How can I prove my love to you?" "Give me the combination to your safe." Yeah, that wouldn't make me suspicious.
I'd almost rather play any scene like this where Macbeth is insisting on giving something to Dierdre, who protests that she doesn't want it. The more she protests that all she needs is his love, the more he wants to lavish on her. In this way, he is predictable, but he's not being fooled by "crocodile tears" into doing something that seems incredibly fishy.
Beat 26) Again, Elisa would recognize human Demona from "High Noon" the first time she saw her. But here I was entirely unclear. How does footage of Dierdre prove that she's Demona, when Elisa didn't recognize her in person?
And this bit about Dierdre being Demona's name...? Gargoyles didn't have names in the tenth century. Naming is a human convention. Goliath referred to Demona back then as his angel love, or his angel of the night. Do we want to change "Dierdre" to "Angel" or "Angelica" or "Angelique". I don't know if you still need this, since Elisa would recognize human Demona, but I suppose you could, as long as we wouldn't be confusing the audience with Angela.
Why wouldn't Goliath want Elisa along? And why would Elisa agree to stay behind?
And what is it that Angela's staring at? Footage of human Dierdre? This isn't going to help her make the connection between herself and Demona. Visual clues aren't really the answer at all, since she would have seen Demona in the Avalon 3-parter. She learned from Sevarius that Goliath was her biological father. Here she learns that Demona was Goliath's love all those years ago. She puts two and two together over the course of the episode. Figuring out the truth only after she's already come to regard Demona as evil. You won't have room here to deal with the ramifications of that discovery. You're just setting things up for another story.
Beat 27) Why does Macbeth want to capture Goliath and Angela if he wants to get Gargoyles out of his life for good?
Beat 28) Goliath is "spreading" lies? To who? I mean we know he's not. But who does Macbeth think he's spreading lies to, that makes him want to imprison Goliath to stop it?
Also Macbeth could NOT have heard about Thailog. He was under the Weird Sister's spell when Thailog made his only other appearance. Besides who would he have heard about him from?
Beat 32) Again, not at all happy about Thailog's magic paintbrush. Particularly since it proves nothing here. It's not a photograph. If Macbeth thinks Goliath might lie about Dierdre, why wouldn't he think that this is a further lie somehow accomplished by Goliath.
Beat 33) I'm glad Macbeth keeps his cook. That guy can make a mean omelette.
Beat 36) Again, don't forget that Macbeth and Demona feel each other's pain while fighting.
Beat 39) These are huge leaps for Angela to make. How does she know this about Thailog. Also does Thailog show up there, state what he states and then not get involved in the fight? Or is that a typo for Goliath? Maybe we should let the battle climax at the Cathedral. Thailog is there. Goliath tries to "save" his son from Demona's evil. (Goliath assumes this plan is Demona's, not Thailog's.) Thailog just laughs. Reveals he wants Mac and Demona to kill each other. And he'll kill Goliath to prevent him interferring. Or something like that.
Beat 41) Killing Demona would at least knock Macbeth out.
Beat 42) Again, doesn't Thailog want anything besides their deaths?
Beat 44) Goliath still needs to be in some discomfort vis-a-vis the biological mother and father thing. It's not the gargoyle way. Brynne is going to deal with this (she'll have the space to deal with it) in her Africa story. Let Elisa be the one who confirms Angela's suspicions.
Beat 45) Again, I think we're working against our own ends. Why does Thailog need Macbeth and Demona dead, if not for what he can gain by their deaths?
Beat 46) Again, I think we can let Demona and Thailog go off together. Also, we've spent the whole episode with Demona turning back and forth from human to gargoyle. Demona does not turn to stone -- ever.
Beat 47) Angela should not get any comfort from Goliath in this episode. You don't have the time to deal with it here. If she receives comfort, it would come from Elisa.
MOVING FORWARD
O.k. try another pass. I'd streamline, by opening with the skiff arriving in daylight. Elisa leaves the stone gargoyles on the skiff tied under a bridge and goes to explore Paris. A place she's never been. She probably calls home again. Maybe she tries her parents this time, and again gets an answering machine. To save money on a voice actor, the answering message can be one that Elisa recorded for her parents months ago. (My sister is on my parents' machine with a message she recorded two years ago.) Elisa's voice says something like: "My parents don't know how to work their answering machine, but if you leave a message for Peter or Diane Maza, there's a fifty-fifty chance they'll call you back"). You don't have to jump through hoops to get the message erased this time. Then she briefly wanders around Paris like a tourist until she spots Mac and "Dierdre" who she immediately recognizes as Demona. She doesn't know that Mac doesn't know it's Demona. She'd probably assume they're up to something bad together. And also guess that they're why she and Goliath, etc. have landed in Paris. She follows them at a safe distance, etc. She doesn't want to get spotted. Near nightfall, she might head back so that she can inform Goliath when he awakens. Or she might not want to lose Macbeth and Demona until after she's found their H.Q. Or maybe when Mac and Dierdre split up, Elisa follows Dierdre to see where she lands, then loses her among the tourists at the cathedral.
Anyway, that's somewhere to start.
lance bierlein writes...
is angela really demona's daughter?
Greg responds...
Biologically, yes. But Katharine is her clan mother.
Chapter XXXVIII: "Heritage"
Time to ramble...
This chapter was written by Adam Gilad. Story Edited by Gary Sperling, and directed by Frank Paur.
FAME
As I watch each episode with my family, I've got my journal open in front of me to take notes for these rambles. During the opening credits, my five-year-old son Benny said: "I like Gargoyles." I was very pleased, of course. Then he said, "Can you write down that?" So I did. And so I have.
SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT
Back on the skiff, and Elisa still hasn't QUITE gotten the idea. She still anticipates being back in Manhattan. Like visiting Scotland was an anamoly, but now surely Avalon will send them home. (What did you all think at the time?)
And boy, that girl likes her hot dogs. Make her one with everything, you know?
A.K.A. CECIL
Our Sea Monster attacks. It's a cool design, based on research that we did. (It happens to look a lot like a pre-historic whale I saw last night on a Discovery Channel special: "Walking with Pre-Historic Beasts".)
I wish we could have found a less generic name for the creature than "Sea Monster". Thunderbird is a cool name -- particularly since I have fond memories of the L.A. T-Birds from Roller Derby telecasts of my youth -- but our research never turned up another name for the Sea Monster.
Keep in mind that though we did research, we also had time constraints. We couldn't keep researching a topic indefinitely. Eventually, we'd have to use what we had and run with it in order for the story and script to be delivered on time.
But I know Gary and Adam did quite a bit of backgrounding for this story. The Sea Monster, Thunderbird, Raven and Grandmother all came from Haida stories -- though we conflated quite a bit, I think. We did always try to be as true as possible to the history and legends we were riffing on.
HEY, WEREN'T THERE FOUR OF YOU?
As the battle with the Sea Monster came to a close, my seven-year-old daughter Erin said: "What about Elisa? Where's Elisa?"
Five seconds later, Goliath surfaces and says pretty much the same thing, before fearing her drowned by shouting "ELISAAAAA!!" (Shades of things to come -- in Hunter's Moon III.)
TOTEM POLES
Speaking of research, the origin of the whole episode was the fact that Totem Poles caught my eye as being a particularly gargoylesque deal. Then we did some preliminary research and found that they weren't carved in anything that seemed to resemble a gargoyle tradition. They were 'carved to honor animal ancestors'. So rather than stretch (or abuse) the truth, we decided to let the characters (and audience) be lured off course by the poles, just as we had been.
Fake GARGOYLES, right here in North America.
In many ways, I think it could be argued that what takes place in this episode is handled or covered in other episodes to come. We have another episode with a 'sea monster'... a more famous sea monster in a certain loch... coming up rapidly in "Monsters". Also in that ep, one of our cast is lost and feared drowned after an early attack by that monster. And much of Nick/Natsilane's dilemma is also re-covered with a more-important recurring character (Peter Maza) in our other Native American-themed episode: "Cloud Fathers". We even do more with a volcano in "Ill Met by Moonlight". On some level I suppose I regret the duplication of efforts. I don't think we usually did this sort of thing.
But I don't regret the episode. I had plans for Raven. Plans for Queen Florence Island. Plans for Nick/Natsilane. I still think the ep has some cool stuff in it. And I think we NEEDED to cover Totem Poles. It was a natural.
HAR with a V. VAR with a D.
I went to a high school in North Hollywood, CA named "Harvard High School". Named after the University. (Some people have incorrectly stated I went to Harvard for college. But I went to Stanford for Undergrad and U.S.C. to get my Masters.)
I don't remember who's idea it was to have Nick be a graduate of Harvard. Might have been mine. Harvard of course is useful as a symbol.
I like Nick/Natsilane. He's got some nice attitude here and a nice shift. Maybe not the most impressive of our so-called "International Heroes". But very likable.
I give a lot of credit to the voice actor for bringing him to life. Gregg Rainwater was brought in by our Voice Director Jamie Thomason. Gregg was terrific. We used him again in Cloud Fathers, but I've used him many times since Gargoyles. I've even written parts with Gregg in mind. He was Jake Nez in Max Steel. And I cast him as Jake MacDonald in 3x3 Eyes. He always brings incredible humanity to a part, I think. Heroic, but real.
THAT'S NOT A CROW
It's a raven. Our second Trickster makes his first appearance. Of the four (Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote), Raven was the guy we gave the most evil bent to.
I like all the shape-shifting he does. (Though when he flees at the end, I wanted him to flee in his bird form, not his Raven-Goyle form.) I also like how he lies by using pieces of the Truth.
Raven-Goyle: "There is an evil sorceress named Grandmother. She summoned the monster that you fought."
When he said that, did you believe him?
Of course, Grandmother does have magic power and she did, in a way, summon the Sea Monster.
IT COULD BE WORSE. I ONCE LIVED ON 28TH STREET.
While doing our research, we encountered names of Islands off the Canadian coast like Queen Charlotte Island. So I named the fictional island we'd be using "Queen Florence Island."
Growing up in Woodland Hills, California, I lived on Queen Florence Lane, a street off Queen Victoria Road. Victoria and Florence were the daughters of Michael Curtiz, the director of such films as CASABLANCA. Curtiz, at one time, owned all the property in that area, so he named the two streets after his daughters.
OR so I once was told... by a ghost named Humphrey who tried to convince me that he was Humphrey Bogart, though you could tell by looking at him that he wasn't.
WHO EXACTLY IS THE SICK ONE HERE?
Elisa is so strong so much of the time, that it's kinda sexy to see her vulnerable and feverish.
Notice that Grandmother doesn't use Fairy magic to heal Elisa. She uses Haida medicine. Thus the rule of non-interference is bent not broken.
I like when Nick comes back in and the Fever's broken. And he says just don't tell me you cured her with tree bark.
When she says, "...and roots." His expression is priceless.
SEEING RED
I like the lighting in the Volcano scene.
Goliath is so glad to learn that other clans have survived, that he doesn't notice -- in fact defends -- the inconsistencies in Raven's story.
Angela, on the other hand is suspicious. This was done, in part, to further develop her character. She's naive about certain things. Having been raised by humans, she's not inclined to judge them harshly or fear their prejudices. But she's not stupid. Something doesn't smell right and she notices.
For once, Bronx though does not. I chalk this up to the high quantity of magic being tossed around on this dying island. Grandmother is not what she seems. Neither is Raven. Bronx is confused.
Anyway, Goliath speaks to Gargoyles protecting to explain away why "Raven's Clan" can both hate humans and protect them. You get the sense that he understands all too well. Like despite everything, there's a part of him -- a prejudiced part -- that hasn't forgiven the human race for what happened at Wyvern. (Also keep in mind, he was just at Wyvern again, rehashing all those old memories.)
Of course, once Goliath learns that Raven was pulling something, he's furious at the trickster. Playing on his hopes AND his prejudices, Raven has risked G's wrath.
At the end of this scene, the three silent gargs vanish magically.
Erin said: "What happened? What just happened?"
Benny said: "How did they just vanish?"
They know I know the answer. But I resist telling them. It's a touch cruel. What did you guys think?
YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE CITY...
Elisa is such a New Yorker. Everything is compared to that. "This sure isn't Central Park."
Anyway, Raven, then a bear, then Bronx and finally Angela and Goliath find Elisa. I love Goliath and Elisa's hug. It's so unselfconscious. They were so worried about each other that they forgot the usual distance that they maintain.
SUSPICIOUS MINDS
So who did you trust? When the gargs disappeared, that had to indicate that something was up with the Raven-goyle.
So when Goliath tells Elisa that Grandmother is a sorceress, particularly given that Grandmother saved Elisa's life, we all tend to think that G's been duped. Then we spot Grandmother turning into Thunderbird. What did you all think then?
Benny noticed "her ears" and suspected her even before she turned into T-Bird.
THAT'S GOTTA HOIT
A cool moment in the battle against T-Bird is when Goliath rakes the creature with his claws.
Then Angela spots the Illusion. And plays it cool with Raven.
I like Goliath's line to Grandmother: "We live. We do not thrive."
Grandmother than establishes that Raven is a Trickster and that they are both "Children of Oberon". Thus we establish that aspect of our series.
She states that they are forbidden from directly interfering in human affairs. Reinforcing what the Weird Sisters said a few episodes before.
Raven joins the party. The jigs up, but he revels in it. He's got a few decent lines too.
I like "It's so messy."
POOR HORATIO, ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE
Elisa more-or-less quotes Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Natsilane, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I've always loved that line.
Anyway, Goliath and Angela depart to fight Raven. They arrive first, but given the fact that Nick had to...
1. Have a final change of heart.
2. Change clothes.
3. Get up to the volcano without wings.
...He makes good time, don't you think?
Raven brings the totem beasts to life. This was always a bit weird. We introduce illusion gargs based on the totem beasts. But then when we bring the totem pole to actual life (or semblance) we have new designs for the woody creatures.
Does everyone see Goliath play dead for that bear?
Raven has a nice exit line here: "This place no longer amuses me."
Neither does this Ramble.
Chapter XXXVII: "Shadows of the Past"
Time to ramble....
This chapter (episode) was brought to you by:
Director: Kazuo Terada
Story Editor: Michael Reaves
Story: Michael Reaves
Teleplay: Michael Reaves & Brynne Chandler Reaves
Plus the usual suspects, including Frank and me.
The title is one of Michael's. I had the impulse to shorten it to "Shadows", but I didn't.
THE WORLD TOUR
As the recap ended and Tom shouted out: "Avalon doesn't take you where you want to go. Avalon sends you where you need to be!" My seven-year-old daughter Erin said, "Uh, oh."
"Uh, oh," indeed.
And so we begin Tier Four in earnest. Our quartet of travelers weren't headed straight home. Of course you couldn't know at that time just how long they'd be gone. And frankly when we started writing, neither did we.
It wasn't just the quantity of episodes (23 counting the Avalon three-parter, Kingdom, Pendragon, The Green and Future Tense) that we'd spend before everyone was reunited in Gathering One. It was the reruns in between.
What was supposed to be a five week trip became a five month trip. And so, for many of the fans it became interminable.
Why all the reruns? Well, the schedule finally just caught up with us. When Gargoyles was picked up for a second season by Buena Vista, I was asked how many we could reasonably produce for the fall quarter (between September & December of 1995) without interruption.
I told them that we were prepared to do six more. That was all the scripts that had been ordered (Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Beholder, Vows). But I said we could do 13. We had done 13 the first season with a ten month sliding schedule. Now we had just under twelve months so we could certainly do 13 again.
I was asked what's the most we could do. I said, well if we start right now we can do 18.
Not 52? They asked.
52? Are you nuts? (Well, I didn't say that exactly.) I said we'll never get 52 done for the fall quarter. We'll wind up with a lot of repeats. You (Buena Vista) will not be happy with all those repeats.
They were disappointed. So disappointed, that instead of ordering 18, they only ordered six. (If we can't have 52, then forget it. [Okay, they didn't exactly say that either, but that seemed like the basic attitude.])
So we get to work to do six. Two weeks pass. Buena Vista comes back and says. No, do 13.
We respond with, uh, okay. Of course we've lost two weeks, so it'll be a bit harder, but we can do it.
Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "No, do 18."
We grumble a bit, because now we've lost a month of prep time when we could have been building crews, etc. But okay, I said we could do 18. We'll manage.
Two weeks pass. They come back and say, "Do 52."
Now we balk. We warned you we couldn't do 52 in twelve months. Now you want us to do it in 10? It took us ten to do 13.
Do 52.
And so we did. We built multiple crews. Our staff increased exponentially. We expanded to four writing teams from one. We expanded from one pre-production team (in Japan -- waves at Roy) to three and a half (one in Japan) and two and a half here in L.A.
And we worked like little demons to bring you 52 for the fall quarter. But it was never going to happen.
We wound up doing pretty good. I don't have my old calendar in front of me, and I can't remember exactly how many we managed to air in the fall, but it was considerably more than the 18 that I thought we could do.
But it wasn't 52. And so we had reruns. And reruns. And reruns. And most of those reruns came in the middle of the World Tour. And thus... yes... it seemed to go on forever.
Whoops. Sorry.
Of course, other people didn't care for it for other reasons. They felt it got away from the series strengths of the gargs in Manhattan. Obviously, it left behind four of our characters, and I'll admit that I underestimated the trio's popularity a bit.
But I felt it was important. The World Tour gave our series breadth and hope. It expanded the Gargoyles Universe, added many new characters and in particular added at least four other clans of gargoyles.
And I think some of the stories really kicked ass.
So I apologize for nothing. NOTHING, do you hear me, nothing!!!!!!
Except for that outburst. Sorry about that outburst.
WYVERN, SCOTLAND
Anyway, our first stop was no place new. Goliath immediately recognizes the ocean cliffside as "home, my home."
Even before Hakon and the Captain start to drive him crazy, his dialogue is laced with nostalgia.
He's so into being back in Scotland, that when he climbs the hill, he doesn't even take Elisa with him. Elisa goes with Angela. Which is no big deal. But usually, G's more of a gentleman than that. Particularly with Elisa.
TIDBIT
Angela: "It was always summer on Avalon."
Just wanted to give a sense of things on the fair island. Seemed to fit the legends as well.
TOKYO, JAPAN
I can't say enough good things about the animation in this episode. It's just gorgeous. The work of Disney's studio in Tokyo. WOW! Production AND Pre-Production was done there. All sorts of little touches, like Elisa slipping briefly and regaining her footing. And GREAT, GREAT character animation. Great lighting as the characters enter the tunnels. STELLAR effects animation in the megalith chamber. Just wow gorgeous stuff.
And boy, did we fight over this episode. [Roy, I'd love to get your perspective on this.]
When we got the storyboard from Japan, Frank and I each found something that just drove us nuts.
For Frank, it was the Wyvern cliff. The castle was gone, of course, as Xanatos had taken it away. But the cliff seemed to otherwise remain in tact. Frank was adamant that a chunk of the cliff had clearly been taken away and was part of the Eyrie Building. You could see it on that design. So obviously, we needed a crater of sorts to exist back at Wyvern.
When Frank pointed it out to me, I agreed with him. It didn't bother me as much as it bothered him, but I agreed.
What bothered me was Elisa's parka. In the storyboard, Elisa was wearing a parka with a hood. Of course, she looked great in it. And it kept her warm and safe and dry. But there was of course, no way and no place where she could have acquired that parka. (The Avalon Eddie Bauer, maybe?) So I insisted the parka had to go.
Frank agreed with me after I pointed it out. It didn't bother him as much as it bothered me, but he agreed.
So we gave Japan both these notes. And to our surprise, they balked. They felt that the only changes we were allowed to make to their boards were S&P changes.
We couldn't believe it. Finally, they relented. But on the cliffside ONLY. They felt that was a fair compromise. Since that had been Frank's BIG note, he was appeased. But obviously, I was not. All sorts of people came to me asking me to back down.
But I wouldn't. And I can honestly say it was for you guys that I refused. I knew even then that OUR FANS paid attention. That we couldn't get away with Elisa suddenly having a warm coat from no where.
So I put my foot down, and Elisa stayed cold and wet.
And our Tokyo Studio had another reason to be annoyed with me.
I regret the tension, certainly. But I still think I did the right thing, so I apologize for NOTHING, DO YOU HEAR ME? NOTHING!!!!
Except for that outburst, I apologize for that outburst.
GASLIGHT
A great movie. A husband tries to convince his wife that she's going insane. It's now a staple of melodrama everywhere. And we used it too.
So the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain try to gaslight Goliath.
We tried to gaslight the audience a bit too. Tried to let them think for a bit that Goliath might just be losing it. Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, maybe.
You can hear it in Goliath's voice. How he's lost in the past. Angela tells him that he did the right thing all those years ago by saving the Princess.
His only response: "Still, I wanted revenge." I love Keith David's reading of that line.
But we also wanted to play fair, so we dropped a hint: when Goliath hears Demona's voice, Bronx howls. He senses something. Always trust Bronx.
Bronx has a pretty important supporting role in this, btw.
THE AXE OF HAKON
When Goliath and friends first enter the caves, Goliath picks up an old Viking axe. Hakon's Axe. The one he uses in "Vendettas".
Should have been a mace by the way. Should have been the same mace you can see in the opening titles EVERY episode. The one that Hakon used to smash the gargoyles at Wyvern.
Shoulda been. My fault.
Okay, for that -- I apologize. I screwed up. Dang.
THE STREET PIZZA TRADITION
a.k.a.
A CLASSIC MICHAEL REAVES' ELISA LINE:
"This place is creepier than the morgue at midnight."
Michael was great at giving Elisa this tough contemporary feel without taking us out of the moment.
Another good one: "Old wounds bleed as bright as new ones sometimes."
GETTING TO KNOW ANGELA
When Goliath pretends that he's NOT freaking out and having hallucinations, Angela can tell he's lying.
I love Brigitte's read there. She sounds SO SHOCKED: "He's not telling the truth."
You can tell she was raised in a world where there was little cause for lying.
COOL CLIFFHANGER
Goliath attacking Elisa and Angela, thinking they are Hakon and the Captain.
Very dramatic. And again, we don't know yet, objectively that he isn't just going nuts.
What did you guys all think at this point? Did you suspect the truth?
Anyway, Bronx saves the day.
And Goliath runs off. He also has a nice stumble here. Again, parka aside, much amazing attention to detail and character in all this animation. Stunning.
STAR TREK INFLUENCE
No, I'm not talking about the voice cast.
Finally, we objectively reveal that Goliath is being influenced. We see two floating entities hovering over the scene. He doesn't see them, so they're not part of his dementia. Ergo (I don't have much opportunity to use the term ergo you know), ergo, they must be what is causing this.
Of course, they look like energy beings right out of Star Trek.
We also see Demona, Othello and Desdemona.
More of us playing fair. Sure they're identifiable. But of course, they (plus Iago) would be the souls LEAST likely to be haunting Wyvern and Goliath.
SALLI RICHARDSON
Yeah, Keith was the star. And we're always going on about Jeff's versatility. But we really were blessed with an amazing cast right down the line.
Salli does Elisa SO DARN WELL. It's the little things really.
Like when Angela explains about the fissure and how Goliath could die in it. Elisa says, "Swell." Just, "Swell." In one word, she says everything that needs to be said. It's hard. Try it sometime.
SPEAKING OF FISSURES
Bronx saves Goliath (temporarily) from falling by chomping down on his arm. Always thought that was cool. Would have liked to have drawn some blood, but we knew we'd never get away with that.
And the fissure itself is way cool. I love Goliath's fall.
And Elisa's determination, as she starts to climb down feet first. And I love the contrast, as Angela and Bronx, by virtue of their claws, climb down head first.
THE TURN
Some fans have felt, I know, that the Captain's change of heart at the end comes suddenly. That may be so. It's hard in a mere 22 minutes to achieve these arcs and turns. But as usual, we tried to drop subtle hints that he wasn't fully on board with Hakon.
Hakon is enjoying tormenting Goliath.
The Captain says: "Make an end to it." Hinting at his ambivalence. Torturing Goliath doesn't give him pleasure.
And while we're praising voice actors, how about a toast to the late Ed Gilbert, voice of the Captain of the Guard. Wonderful work here. Evil. Tortured. Redeemed.
Ed, wherever you are... THANKS!
THE FATAL FLAW IN YOUR PLAN
Demona. The Captain must have assumed that Demona died in the massacre. He and Hakon figured that her appearance would be the coup de grace. That Goliath's will would just dissolve when faced with her ghost.
They were almost right. But of course, G is no idiot. A bit slow sometimes, but not stupid. Demona's ghost shouldn't be here. Cuz the dame ain't dead.
[By the way, the idea to have her fist morph into a mace was mine. Just a little post-storyboard tidbit that I suggested amid bitching about the parka. They must have liked the idea because that wasn't one I insisted on, but they did it anyway. When push came to shove, everyone -- on both sides of the ocean -- was just VERY dedicated to making the show better.] [See. It's a mace because that's the weapon that we associate with the Massacre. Hakon's axe should have been a mace. How did I miss that?]
Anyway, Goliath figures out the truth and, hey, we've awakened the sleeping giant. He trashes the phony Demona. And we think he's going to smash all the others.
But something even more chilling happens. They all begin to dissolve around him. It still gives me the creeps. Very cool animation AND music and effects. (Props to the gang at Advantage Audio too.)
HOW
Or rather how come we don't have ghosts hanging around ALL the time. I didn't want this episode to open a spectral floodgate, where any character that was killed or had died in the past was available to haunt us.
So the Captain offers two possible explanations: Hate and Magic. Both present in ample supply. Plus Guilt. His guilt. Unfinished business.
THE DANCE
Again, very cool effects on the Megalith's here. But the idea emerges from an old (if not very original) idea I've had since I was a teen. The notion that Stone Dances, that Megalith Circles were like Medieval Mystic Dynamos. Circles of power. That build and generate.
Really came to life here.
I love Hakon's line: "I can feel it. I can feel again." I love that transition halfway through the line between where he can feel that the process is working and when he realizes the simple fact that he can feel things again.
But again, watch the Captain feel his own hand. You can see the ambivalence there. Particularly when Goliath becomes the Ghost and Hakon is beating on him. Cap doesn't participate in this.
And Goliath helps him remember what he has forgotten. The Captain doesn't HATE Goliath. His problem is that G's presence has reinforced his own guilt.
But here's an opportunity to redeem himself: "I can't let this happen again!"
He pushes Hakon back.
Hakon: "You've crossed the lines of power, you fool."
You can almost here the Ghostbusters say, "Don't cross the streams."
RESOLUTION
So Cap hated himself, not G.
G forgives. He forgave the Magus last episode. Now he forgives the Captain. Shows that he's a pretty decent guy.
You think if Hakon made an effort? Nah.
Anyway, I like G's line: "One enemy. And one friend."
And then a positively angelic Captain returns briefly to say goodbye and thanks. I also like the "shackles of hate and guilt" line. And the way he calls Goliath, "Old Friend".
Elisa thinks she's in for a long story.
G: "Centuries long."
And as the sun rises, and Elisa -- as usual -- leans against her stone beau for a nap....
Hakon: "Don't leave me here alone!! Not without anyone to hate!!"
Many people think I should have left him there forever. But evil doesn't rest in peace in my opinion. When left alone it tends to get out of control.
Besides I already had this fun idea. What if Wolf was Hakon's descendant?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Chapter XXXV: "Avalon, Part Two"
Time to Ramble...
"PART TWO"
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
THE EGGS
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
BEACH FIGHT
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
"Uh. Yeah."
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
REUNIONS
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
SLEEPING KING
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
LOOSE ENDS
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
WEIRD SISTERS
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
ARCHMAGESES
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
FLAWS
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
But Macbeth?
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
CAPTIONS
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
POWERING UP
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
BATTLE FLASHBACK
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
LAYING PIPE
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
Uh oh.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
While I'm thinking of it....
Behold the following exchange (then skip to the bottom):
Received from pc-17.di.uoa.gr on Monday, September 17, 2001 04:52:03 AM
Aris Katsaris writes...
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
Greg responds...
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
recorded on 03-04-02
With all this in mind...
I know I've established -- both here and in my own head (particularly with regards to G2198) that eggs hatch on the Spring Equinox.
But does anyone remember whether (and where) I've established what month the eggs are laid in?
I can't recall if this has come up yet.
Anyone know? And would this solve my problems at all?
Aris Katsaris writes...
'kay, you were in your Disney office and couldn't answer this the last time I asked it, so you told me to repost it... Here goes:
<g> Another timeline thingy - this time less of a question though and more of a possible correction (unless I'm missing something)...
You recently said that Tom, Katherine and Magus entered Avalon on September 28th 995. But we also know that the eggs would normally hatch on the spring equinox (about March 21st) of 998. This means that there normally remained 2 and 1/2 years for the eggs to hatch... This time they spent on Avalon.
You can probably see where I'm going... Multiply by 24, and we see that they had to spent 60 years (Earth time) on Avalon. This takes them all the way to 995+60 = 1055.
Obviously the closest "20-year circle of the earth" was 1058... Quite near by. So why did you have them hatch on 1078, 20 years later, instead?
I don't think I've made any errors with the math... :-)
-------------
Greg responds...
The eggs were laid in 988. From 988 until 995 (seven out of the normal ten years for gestation) time passed normally. That means they needed @three more years to hatch once they arrived on Avalon. One year on Avalon equals 24 in the real world, as you noted. 3 x 24 = 72. 995 + 72 puts us at 1067. Making the closest twenty year cycle at 1078, as I noted.
You're calculations assume two and a half years instead of three to hatch. And that makes sense given the dates listed. The obvious dopey answer is that I was not calculating to the month but to the year. And so I could acknowledge the mistake and redo everything. And maybe on my next pass through the timeline, I'll do just that.
But to be honest, maybe I won't. When dealing with Avalon's mysterious flow of time, I believe my calculations are close enough. If the eggs weren't ready until March of 1059 even, then I'm still correct -- so it's not quite as big an error as it appears at first glance. Four years passing in the real world represents only two months on Avalon. Perhaps all that traveling and magic, etc. set the eggs back just a bit. If it set them back two months, then I'm right, and they're just slightly late bloomers.
And yes, I'm making excuses. So I'll save this exchange and decide at a later date.
For now, I'm sticking with my current calculations.
Shan writes...
Greg said:
In fact, Goliath's initial reaction to Thailog is not to form a bond. It's to call him an abomination. (You blithely skipped over that, Shan.) Part of what follows is a bit of guilt mixed in with him taking responsibility for Thailog as a parent.
As to Angela, you've again missed his initial reaction to her on Avalon. It is clearly one of paternal pride, just as he is proud of Gabriel and all of his children.
Shan responds:
You're right on both counts. I do remember having fallen asleep and just woken up in time to see the "Double Jeapordy" episode. Probably thought I remembered more than I really did, both about what I had just seen and Angela's situation. Lousy excuse though. I really should have researched better before asking a question of such an involved level (re: attempting to compare Thailog and Angela).
Greg responds...
No biggie. Glad you're interested.
Cha-Cha writes...
Why didn't Thailog and Demona clone Angela?
Greg responds...
Demona didn't want a clone of Angela, she wanted Angela. So she never released a mosquito when Angela was guarding her cell. That meant that Thailog and Sevarius didn't have the option.
matt writes...
when Puck transforms the human population to gargs why is it that Elisa and the three teen girl gargs in the subway not have brow ridges or horns of any kind? every other gargoyle we've seen except for the English gargs had either horns or brow ridges or both, but these transformed humans had neither. in fact, besides the pointed ears and color difference (which Elisa didn't even have) their bodies from the neck up looked very human, not gargoyle. was it cuz you wanted these characters to be physically attractive to human viewers even as gargs? cuz i think physically Desdemona is more attractive than Demona or Angela and Des has big old horns, so why make these characters as gargs so human looking?
would you have objected to the animators giving Elisa a beak or a frill or any of the other non human features of gargs?
Greg responds...
Yes, I would have objected to Elisa getting a beak, because she wouldn't have looked viserally like Elisa. Other changes that were less significant would not have bothered me.
However, I loved the design they came up with and didn't question it.
As for the girls in the subway. MINOR, minor characters. There wasn't as much time to do all this stuff as you seem to think. We just had to get it done.
Don't read too much into it though. We all think that Desdemona is attractive. Frank in particular likes drawing attractive females. I think Demona and Angela and Elisa are pretty hot too. Among other characters.
matt writes...
before he caught Angela, had Sevarius found any proof to support his theory of a garg clan living in Loch Ness?
if yes, what did he find?
Greg responds...
No. Her presence generated that theory, as I recall.
Shan writes...
This has both an apology and a question. Apparently you answered my recently posted question previously, to Aaron, some time ago. The problem is that I did not see Thailog's archive (somehow my eye missed it that time) and only one for the Clones. The answer I wanted was in Thailog's archive but not in the Clones archive. Therefore, I thought I was asking a new question.
But I've also figured out what bothers me about Goliath's "he is my son" response. If, as you said in your response to Aaron, Goliath feels responsible and wants to bring Thailog into the fold -- where he told Angela she should see the clan as her parents -- should Goliath have said instead "he is the clan's son" or "he is our son" (though THAT would have been odd, since he's talking to Elisa!).
Is that taking it personal attributable to Goliath's personality then? Would most Gargs have said "Thailog is the clan's son" or "He is of my blood. He is one of the clan"???
Greg responds...
You're taking this stuff out of context, as you yourself indicates. The fact that he didn't semantically state it EXACTLY as you might wish he had, is unimportant. You get the idea.
Really, I think you're splitting hairs.
Shan writes...
I just got done watching "Double Jeapordy," and in it Goliath emphasizes to Elisa that he must stay on the rig and talk to/rescue Thailog because "he is (of?) my blood. He is my son."
However, later on he meets his daughter Angela, but doesn't realize the connection at first. After Sevarius clues her in about her biological parents (Goliath and Demona) and Angela starts pressing the point with Goliath, Goliath responds with something to the effect that children belong to the whole clan. It is not until Elisa's mother and Goliath have the heart to heart about children sometimes needing special attention that Goliath and Angela begin to bond more directly, if I'm not mistaken.
But with Thailog, Goliath wants to reach out and make a bond almost from the outset.
Is it the circumstances of Thailog's creation that make Goliath take more responsibility for Thailog from the get-go versus Angela, or is it (though certaintly not her fault) that the fact Angela is also Demona's child somehow alienates Goliath more at first? Is it something else entirely? I found the difference in attitudes striking.
Greg responds...
In fact, Goliath's initial reaction to Thailog is not to form a bond. It's to call him an abomination. (You blithely skipped over that, Shan.) Part of what follows is a bit of guilt mixed in with him taking responsibility for Thailog as a parent.
As to Angela, you've again missed his initial reaction to her on Avalon. It is clearly one of paternal pride, just as he is proud of Gabriel and all of his children.
Later, he NEVER denies her as his child. He simply is uncomfortable with her focus on him as her biological father. This also mixes in guilt -- survivors guilt this time. And a healthy fear that if she responds this way to him being her biological father, then how will she respond when and if she learns that Demona is her biological mother. If she had simply been calling him father from the get go, he'd have had no problem. But she didn't until she got word from Sevarius about biology. That's what troubled him. She wasn't thinking like a gargoyle. When "Goliath responds with something to the effect that children belong to the whole clan" that's not just a means of putting her off, it's not just something to say. That's how he was raised. That means something to him.
In any case, the Thailog and Angela situations are so widely different, it's really comparing apples and oranges. But I certainly don't see any inconsistencies in Goliath's behaviour.
Lord Sloth writes...
1) Given that most gargoyles have a desire to feel the warmth of the sun, wasn't Goliath or Angela tempted to ask for a chance at wearing a Guatimalan sun amulet, if only for a short time? If so, did their politeness outweigh their desire?
One more for the Guatimalan Gargs. 2) I Don't know if it's true, but I heard somewhere that the clan had a lot of eggs. I don't see how it could be more than 2 eggs, for 2 pairs of Gargs, unless the bigger clan was massacered pretty recently. So is that the case?
Greg responds...
1. Tempted briefly, perhaps. But they knew the amulets weren't toys or trifles. So, yes, too polite to ask.
2. Yes. Watch the episode, it makes that fairly clear.
Sexy Queer writes...
I'm not sure if this was ever asked but did Angela tell her Rookery siblings that Demona was her mother, If so where they in shock about it?
Greg responds...
Well, they didn't really know Demona, except as that garg who attacked them while under a spell. So it held less significance from an "oh my god, Demona!" standpoint.
Also, I'm sure they all have mixed feelings about the whole biological parenting thing. I'm not sure that Angela did tell them that Goliath was her biological father. That would seem too much like unseemly bragging. (So maybe for that reason alone, she didn't mention Demona either.) At any rate, they all would have thought of Goliath and Demona as Clan Parents.
Gipdac writes...
1) Will Angela and Broadway raise their kids like humans, by only two parents, or will they be raise like gargoyles, in a collective rookery?
2) If so, will that trend continue into the future?
3) What about Brooklyn and Katana's children will they raise their children collectively or individually?
Greg responds...
1. Like gargs.
2. Generally.
3. Nash will be raised individually, initially, or communally if you consider that his TimeDancing parents represent the complete community of adults. Tachi will also get some individual rearing, because B&K will be the only parents in range. But both kids will get a lot of community parenting from the Manhattan Clan.
Mary Mack writes...
At some point at the Gathering, I overheard you telling some lucky fan or fans when Brooklyn learned to read. I was dashing off somewhere, probably trying to chase down Kanthara again (whom I finally caught on Monday-- Hi Kanth!), and I didn't get to eavesdrop on the whole thing. It sounded fascinating, and like part of a larger question about which gargs learned to read when. I sure wish I knew the answer, and I'd bet money that your other faithful readers want to know too. So...
We know when Hudson and Braodway learned to read-- they started right after "Lighthouse on the Sea of Time." When did the other members of the Manhattan clan learn to read?
Thatnk you for your time and I hope everybody pre-registers for the Gathering 2002-- I did!
Greg responds...
Thank you, Mary. I believe Brooklyn learned to read shortly after awakening in the twentieth century. I believe Goliath learned from Demona in the tenth century. I believe Demona learned from the Archmage. I believe Lex learned in the tenth century too. Angela was taught by the Magus.
(Lots of fun tidbits always get revealed at the Gathering.)
Corrine Blaquen writes...
Another interesting thing to think about: For brief periods of time, Angela has had both Macbeth and Thailog as stepfathers. *Grin* Angela's family is somewhat dysfunctional, is it not?
Greg responds...
Whose isn't?
Corrine Blaquen writes...
Last night I was watching 'Hunter's Moon, Part II' on Toon Disney. Since it's definately one of my favorite episodes, I tried to spot all the stuff I'd missed when on previous viewings. I was delighted by what I found!
It was in the scene right after when Elisa gives Angela CPR. In a short time afterwards dawn comes. What I noticed was that just before they turn to stone, Broadway moves beside where Angela is lying and takes her hand. It was happening in the background and no attention was called to it, but I thought that was incredibly sweet! I really loved it. Was that another hint that Broadway and Angela would end up together? If it was, it was a VERY nice way to do so. :-)
Another question about Hunter's Moon, Part II: When Goliath is just outside Elisa's window, seeing all that happens within (My original reaction to Elisa and Jason was *GASP!* "OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO OHMYGOD, NO!" So on and so forth), could he hear what was being said? I couldn't tell.
And I'd like to take a brief moment to say thanks for creating a show with characters that can endear themselves with little background actions and that make me care SO MUCH that its hero gets the girl!
Greg responds...
1. Yes. As soon as Gary Sperling and I decided (while working on Turf) that Broadway and Angela would wind up together, we tried to show their relationship building -- in subtle ways.
2. Yes, he could hear. But in Soap Opera fashion, he left before he heard it all. To our credit, even the stuff he missed wasn't exactly equivocal.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
matt writes...
1. what spinoffs would be see Gabriel and Opheila in?
2. what is the relationship between Angela and Opheila?
3. when Opheila hatched do you imagine she had that head frill or do you think it grew in later?
4. how would you describe Opheila since we've seen so little of her?
Greg responds...
1. Gargoyles for sure. Maybe Pendragon. Big maybe on 2198. Maybe TimeDancer.
2. Sisterly.
3. She had a little one.
4. I'd start by spelling her name right.
matt writes...
ok, from what you've told us, Angela and Broadway will raise their children in human fashion, being their children's only parents, but you've also said that Lex and other gargs of certain ages will be the parents of their children? how will their children be raised, from a biological standpoint or a rookery standpoint or in a combination of these ways?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Justin writes...
Greg,
Hey here are some questions
1) Will Broadway and Angela's kids know that those two are there biological parents?
2) Will Broadway be more of a traditionalist in the sense that he would want the clan to raise the children, or will he want to raise his children as his own? I would think Angela want want to do the a latter.
3)Will Broadway and Angela see eye to eye on the parenting proccess?
Thanx
Greg responds...
1. Not necessarily. Artus is more likely to know than Gwen or Lance. Only because there are fewer garg parents in the castle early on.
2. Both Broadway and Angela will lean toward the Gargoyle Way. I understand why you think Angela would favor the human approach, but I think you're misinterpreting things. Keep in mind how she was raised. Three parents. Many siblings. There's a certain fascination with biology which I think is "human" and natural. But ultimately, I think love for the "eggs" would win out with her. How can she possibly love one "egg" more than another, just because she laid one.
3. On everything? Doubt it. Generally? Yes.
matt writes...
since Angela has had an interest in gargoyle parentage and has a close relationship with Gabriel has see perhaps guessed that Gabriel's parents are Othello and Desdemona? she had to know that they had a child on Avalon, did she think through the next step and guess at that child?
Greg responds...
Probably.
lesley writes...
does demona have any other childern besides angela?
Greg responds...
nope
Andrea writes...
What were your plans for Goliath and Angela ?
Greg responds...
Extensive.
Dexter writes...
Hey, I a question about Angela (big shock there)
(1) Do you think she'd ever be interested in playing guitar or any other type of musical intsrument? I mean, I guess the only-having-4-fingers thing might make that a little hard, but whatever.
(2)What about art? She seems like an art chic to me...at least an art buff if not an artist.
(3) How does she keep that skimpy outfit so clean? You'd think all that running around in a tan jumpsuit would get a girl dirty! heh heh
Greg responds...
This is the time on Schrpockets when we dance.
Yttrium writes...
I know you dislike hypotheticals, Greg, but maybe you'll find this one as acceptable: If Angela wasn't traveling with her father, meaning if she and Goliath were not biologically related, would she have even wondered who her parents were? Thanks.
---Ytt
Greg responds...
I doubt it. It was Sevarius' DNA report that got her thinking about it. And she didn't raise the question right away. It just began to build in her mind.
On the other hand, I think it wouldn't have taken her too long to start looking at Goliath as a father figure. And in fact (biology aside) he was one of her clan fathers. And really, the only one she was likely to ever meet. (With the possible exception of Coldstone.)
matt writes...
oh, and also in the age of characters list you said that Yama is 29 and Sora is 19. their mates, and i thought there were never mates from different generations, Broadway and Angela being the exception. i figured that gargs mated among their rookery siblings because that way they wouldn't find a mate in a close (i.e. brother and sister) biological relative. so is it common for gargs to mate between generations? or are Broadway/Angela and Yama/Sora very different from the norm?
Greg responds...
Broadway and Angela are a very unusual case for OBVIOUS reasons. (He was asleep for 1000 years. She grew up on Avalon. As a result they are nearly the exact same age biologically.)
Yama and Sora are atypical. But their love is not unheard of.
I don't ever recall saying that gargs from separate generations couldn't or wouldn't mate. It's just not particularly common.
Dexter writes...
Hello Greg-Alright, so this one is about Angela's hair. It's it just coincidence that her hair style is exactly like Princess Jasmine's from Alladin, or did you guys over a Disney just do that to be cute? I'm not trying to be an asshole (wow it's a miracle) I like her hair. Hmmm, she'd look pretty gorgeous with it down though, rrrrrrrroaw!
Greg responds...
I don't know. I assume it's a coincidence, but we were all in the same building so maybe we were influenced some. Greg Guler's original design for Demona had that sort of pony-tail. Frank didn't want that for Demona, so I had it brought back for Angela.
Dexter writes...
Hey guess who? Yeah I honestly couldn't remember if i asked this yet or not, so if it sounds rather familiar, then just void it!
Alright, here I go! When me and Angela get married, if she were to lay an egg would she build a nest? I know that the clan lays eggs in a rookery, but since she'd be the only gargoyle around, would she just build a nest for her egg outta palm tree leaves or something? Or maybe she'd convert my basement into a rookery...I don't know. Please do tell!
Greg responds...
She's not the only garg around.
And, dex, you're starting to creep me out a bit.
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
About Angela: Right after the World Tour, what are her opinions about...
1-Macbeth?
2-Fox?
3-Dingo?
Thanks.
Greg responds...
1. He seems all right.
2. She doesn't seem to trustworthy. But at least she's not trying to kill me.
3. He seems all right.
matt writes...
was Angela nervous upon meeting the Manhatten Clan? i noticed that she stayed back in the shadows a bit at first. if she was, i can understand why. first of all, she probably felt like a hatchling among them. Avalon was not only where she lived her childhood, but it seems to be a place of eternal childhood, for mortals anyway. even Tom, Katherine, and the Magus said they all lived like children even as they all grew older. and when Goliath came to the island he was the oldest gargoyle (biologically and chronologically) that the Avalon clan had ever seen! than she gets to Manhatten and there's an even older gargoyle, Hudson. then of course, if i was Angela, i would feel very nervous about being raised by humans, even though they did a great job. the Manhatten gargs all hatched in the Wyvern rookery, grew up in the castle raised by gargs and had maintained almost entirely gargoyle-gargoyle relationships with the exception of Elisa, Matt, and some villains. Angela probably felt like, "I wonder if there is some gargoyle custom i'm not aware of.", or, "Am I doing something only humans do?" among her brothers and sisters all this was ok since they were all raised the same. actually out of all the NY gargs i think Angela was probably most intimidated by Hudson, am i right about any of this?
ok, just another ramble from matt...
Greg responds...
I'd say she was a bit nervous, yes.
I don't know if Hudson made her that nervous, specifically. He was very welcoming, and she's fairly self-possessed. But the situation was nerve-wracking, for many of the reasons you describe.
Dexter writes...
Hey, wussup? It's that really anoying punk again. So Lara Croft once appeared in a music video for some english band, think Angela could be in one of my band's music videos? Or does her contract with Disney rule that kinda stuff out? That'd be sweet if she could....i should call her...dammit!too bad i don't have her number
Greg responds...
Uh, ask her Uncle Walt for his blessing and see how far you get. Maybe if you have her home by ten?
Dexter writes...
Hey man, I'm back. Dude, so let's say I asked Angela out on a date, and she said yes...
1) What kind of flowers should I bring her? Or would she prefer something more original like...a basket of nectorines or something?
2) what's her favorite color? That's always good to know about a woman.
3) Does she like punk rock? Hey it could be very likely! I mean, after all she did come to New York! I'm sure she's determined to get 'cultured' in her new world, so what style of music do you think she likes? Hey, there's an idea, I could write her a song...that's more personal then flowers. Heh heh, that gargoyle is so cool. When we go out, I'll even whip out my flashy Cheetah Bondage pants for her...I only wear them on very special occasions don't ya know.
You probably think i'm a psycho, huh? Yeah I know, it's a hard truth. I seriously painted her on a wall in my room though. It's pretty sweet! But ya know what Greg, now you have my pathetic posts and questions to look forward too every time you come on to reply! Besides, I've been through the archives, and as you know, there are people here who have way more issues then I do! Later Dude!
Greg responds...
1. I'm not big on hypotheticals. I like nectarines though.
2. I'm color blind. Maybe green, like her BOYFRIEND, Broadway.
3. I think most of Punk Rock would initially be a wall of sound that she couldn't relate to. However, it's certainly possible that if one really good song got through, it might give her the patience to relate to the rest of the genre.
matt writes...
i thought i'd share a interesting story:
i know alot of people write in here and in other sites, etc. about how Angela should have ended up with Brooklyn and not Broadway. Greg, you are so right in your reasons why Broadway and Angela ended up together and i'm happy to say that i knew they would, but the funny thing is why i believed that they'd end up together. when Angela first joined the cast i figured that she'd end up with one of the trio (although i did think there was something between her and Gabriel, but thats another story). of course, i wanted to know which one she would end up with so i began to think about these four characters. my analysis, correct, but flawed, was that Lex was too small in stature, Brook had a beak, so kissing was very hard to do, so it had to be Broadway. until i started posting here i didn't know that kissing wasn't a garg custom, afterall, Coldstone and Coldfire kissed in cyberspace, Elisa kissed Goliath, and Angela kissed all three of the trio on the cheek and later Broadway on the mouth. i thought, how can Brook kiss Angela with that beak! i know its stupid and i really should have learned that there were other factors but i guess i couldn't get past garg appearences, i'm such a human...
Greg responds...
Yes, such a human. Angela's choice (if you want to call it that) had little to do with beaks or height or weight. It was the garg inside.
matt writes...
after Angela learned Goliath was her father but before she learned Demona was her mother, who did she think her mother was? a gargoyle destroyed in the massacre? did she ever ask Goliath about his mate? she must have been equally curious about her mom.
also do Katherine, Tom, Gabriel and the rest of the Avalon clan (or some of them) know about Angela's parentage of Goliath and Demona?
Greg responds...
1. I'm not sure she was focused enough to give it any thought. She was thinking about Goliath-as-Dad-present-here-and-now, not some vague "mom".
2. Probably, if she gave it any real thought.
3. No. She was still trying to get him to acknowledge the significance of his biological paternity.
4. I don't know if they gave it specific thought. Neither Tom or Katharine or the Magus spent much time with the gargs pre-massacre. There's no way they could be sure. Angela's coloring might be a clue.
5. Do they know now? Probably. Angela probably told them.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
More of a comment than a question:
I think I know why everyone thinks that you were hinting at Angela-Brooklyn rather than Angela-Broadway.
Brooklyn, as you've noticed, is a popular character. He's my personal favorite. People recognize him as the member of the trio most oriented toward romance. He has the instances of Maggie and maybe even Demona (TEMPTATION), while Broad and Lex don't have any. Some viewers even consider him the "leader" of the trio, (I'd myself never thought the trio had a "leader" to itself, but some people have...) and traditionally, the leader gets the girl. You also have several instances where Brooklyn patrols with Angela and no other members of the trio, which could be interpreted as further indication that since they are literally "together" (as in in the same place) they are figuratively "together" (as in a couple.)
*Shrugs* Just my take.
Greg responds...
Well, Brook is CLEARLY the leader of the Trio. Particularly after Goliath makes him second in command of the clan.
Demona in Temptation is pushing it. (Sorry, Christine.) But there are two indications of Brook falling hard for a dame: Maggie and Angela. Both crushes, based on nothing else but physical appearance and apparent availability.
And I don't think we put Angela with Brooklyn anymore often than we put her with the other two. People saw what they want to see.
But at any rate, I'm not surprised people saw it going that way. Like I've said, it's the obvious choice. We just didn't feel it was the right choice. The characters told us different.
Dexter writes...
Why is Angela so DAMN sexy? Oh I love her SO much! Dude, do you think she'd go for a blonde-haired punk? I mean, her own dad even went for a human, so maybe there's hope for me yet. Hmm...I bet you're gonna give me a smart-ass remark like "she's taken" or something cuz "gargoyles mate for life" BUT Demona proved that it is not true! Go me! Long live the beautiful Angela!
Greg responds...
Hey, good luck, man. More power to you.
[Poor slob.]
matt writes...
Angela is genetically Thailog's daughter too, correct. now, i realize these are wierd circumstances but wouldn't he feel some sort of kinship to her or at least have feigned it to avoid a conflict with Demona? I just don't understand why he wanted to kill her so badly or at least why her death should come before the others. demona said that, "She belongs to me!" why didn't Thailog just let Demona keep Angela chained up, it would have saved him alot of trouble, really.
Greg responds...
I agree with your last statement.
But I don't think Thailog views Angela as a daughter at all.
And keep in mind that from Thailog's point of view, Demona had weeks to turn the girl and failed. Now he wanted to test Demona. And maybe he was more than ready to replace her with Delilah.
matt writes...
by the time of "The Journey" does Demona know about Broadway and Angela being a couple? if not, when does she find out?
Greg responds...
After.
Xavier writes...
1)Just out of plain curiosity, why did Angela have the get "involved" with any one of trio? Did you ever consider just having her go with nobody? She just seemed to me as somone who was more interested in having family relationships with her parents versus a romantic one.
2)This may answer my first question, but in regards to having Angela go with Broadway, did you do it to set a good example for children? I mean,Broadway didn't exactly have the charm of a knight in shinning armor,and he was also fat which would have taught kids that "looks are not important,it's what's inside" So again,it makes sence and I was just wondering if that's why you decided to do it.Thank You!
Greg responds...
1. She didn't "have to" (I assumed you meant "have to" and not "have the"). But she seemed to me to be a young blossoming woman-garg, who might eventually be interested in both familial and romantic ties.
2. I wasn't unaware of potential lessons, I guess. But the answer is no. We did it because it seemed right. Gary Sperling and I sat down while working on "Turf". I felt that it was important that Turf not reveal a choice for Angela, but rather her independence. But I also felt it was important for us to know who (if anyone) she was going to wind up with. Brooklyn was in many ways an obvious choice, but as we discussed it, it soon became clear that they were a bad match. That she was just another pretty face for Brooklyn to get a crush on. But that Broadway, the sensitive, intuitive soul, would appeal to something deep inside her. And she to him, as well.
DCB writes...
Silly hypothetical question.
What do you suppose Broadway and Angela were thinking when Othello suggested that he and Desdemona keep possession of their (Broadways and Angela's) bodies? Assuming they could hear them the way Brooklyn could Iago.
Greg responds...
They were probably SCREAMING!!
What would you think?
SEM writes...
Greg, I've just finished watching the World Tour arc on TOON DISNEY (and the next few episodes after, up through "The Reckoning" as I write) and am intrigued about the introduction of Angela. At first I thought maybe you decided to have an Avalon Gargoyle accompany Goliath back to Manhattan just to renew that sense of wonder of the world that seems to disappear from the other Gargoyles as they become more familiar with modern times. But then I see how quickly Angela takes charge and adapts, and to be honest I was kind of surprised the childlike wonder of going to "your Manhattan" wasn't milked a little longer. Was it a conscious choice to design a personality that had her get up to speed so quickly, or did it just happen? (Or am I perceiving Angela incorrectly?)
Lastly, to the person who asked about the Max Steel video game: one was just released the start of this month for the Sega Dreamcast by Mattel Media and Sony Pictures Entertainment. These are the people you need to contact about getting the game made for other platforms. Greg has nothing to do with that.
Greg responds...
We may have had Angela ramp up too quickly. I think that's a legitimate criticism.
But I will point out that Manhattan wasn't the first big city she visited. We tried to start her out slow by returning to Wyvern, then taking her to Queen Florence Island. Both relatively primitive locations. Next was the equally primitive Loch Ness, where she was exposed to some high technology. If she wasn't WOWED by it on-camera, that may have been because she didn't have much time to react.
But by the time she arrived in Manhattan, she had been to Paris, Prague, London, etc. She had seen the Matrix, submarines, guns, airships etc. So we couldn't have her TOO naive.
As to our goal for Angela, renewing that sense of wonder was only a VERY small part of it. Mostly, we wanted to explore a positive female gargoyle, and explore the complex relationships that would evolve out of having a gargoyle who was raised by humans but was the biological daughter of Goliath and Demona.
JADE writes...
Hi Greg,
I was wondering about this: In one show (Which I can't remeber the name) Demona, Angela, and Thailog were in it. What I remember the most about it was that in this show Angela said to Demona "I hate you!" And then Demona started to cry and went and fought with Thailog over something---I think it was something to do with Angela. After that I don't think we saw Demona again, but if Angela and Demona would ever sit down and talk about their feelings for each other, would it ever work out? I mean would Demona go back to the clan, or would her and Goliath work something out so Demona can see Angela once in awhile? I know this question isn't to understand able, mainly because I can hardly remember anything from this part of the show only the "I hate you" thing---but please try to answer the best you can. Thank you.
Greg responds...
I assume you're talking about "The Reckoning".
As for answering your question, I don't have any simple reassuring response. This isn't, for example, as clear-cut as a divorced couple arguing over custody of their teen-age daughter. Demona's a would-be mass murderer. She and Angela have much to work through. Stuff that includes mother/daughter relations, gargoyle/human relations, good/evil, nature/nurture, etc. It's an on-going discovery for both characters. And for Goliath as well.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
Greg, what made you decide to give Goliath and Demona a daughter? As opposed to a son, I mean. I can assume three things, one, to bring a female into the clan, two, to give a mate to one of the trio, and possibly three, to better relate to Demona. What was your thinking behind it?
Greg responds...
It was always going to be a daughter. It never occured to me to go the other way.
But your answer one was probably the reason for that.
Two might have been a small back-o-my-head notion, but it certainly wasn't forefront in my thinking.
Three, well, I don't think so. Though I will say that I did like the idea of having a character to contrast with Demona. Thus the name Angela.
Spore-chan writes...
Does Angela have an Electra Complex? (like and Oedipal complex, but a girl who loves her father)
Greg responds...
Not really. I mean, sure, she loves her dad. But she has no desire to kill her mom. Quite the reverse. She wants to redeem her mom.
matt writes...
what is Goliath's reaction to Broadway and Angela's relationship? what is Demona's?
Greg responds...
I think he's pleased.
Demona's probably conflicted. I don't think she likes Broadway, simply because he's alligned against her. But I don't think she's rooting for her daughter to be alone either.
Corrinne Blaquen writes...
This is a bit of a silly question, but I must ask: Why IS Angela so interested in her parentage? I mean, gargoyles aren't programmed with that kind of behavior. Is it simply because she KNOWS who her parents are, or is there some other reason?
Greg responds...
Angela was raised by humans. Her values may be humanly skewed a bit. Plus, I think there's a natural curiosity about that sort of thing from any child who's been adopted. Then of course, the answers raised all sorts of issues for her.
Todd Jensen writes...
In your opinion, will the emerging public hostility towards the gargoyles from the humans in New York, post-"Hunter's Moon/The Journey", be harder on Angela than the other members of the clan? While Goliath, Hudson, and the trio grew up at Wyvern familiar with how most humans don't like gargoyles, Angela grew up on Avalon where the only humans that she knew (Princess Katharine, the Magus, and Tom) were loving foster-parents to the young gargoyles; between them, and her strong ties with Elisa during the Avalon World Tour, it must have been easy for her to develop the attitude of harmony between the two races as the norm. Could that make the general anti-gargoyle mood in New York much more upsetting for her than it did for the rest of the clan, who have had more experience with it?
Greg responds...
Yes, generally, but she's not a little girl. She'll manage. But I also see her as a bridge builder.
matt writes...
i have to say that i really don't feel all that sorry for Angela with the whole mother Demona thing. i mean she has two adoptive mothers in Katherine and Elisa, and practically four fathers in Goliath, Tom, The Magus, and a bit in Hudson, though he's probably more of a grandfather. What i'm trying to say is she crys and everything but no one else in either the Avalon or Manhatten clans knew either of their parents. They probably are a bit jealous of her. Her parents may not get along, but they love her and at least they weren't smashed to dust. but still here's poor Angela crying, "boo hoo, my mommy doesn't like my friends!" what a baby! sorry about all that. i know there isn't really a question here but i had to get that out. thanks.
Greg responds...
Elisa's more of a big sister than a mom, but I see your point.
I just think you're being really harsh. Yes, she's got great adoptive parents. But that doesn't change the emotional response of finding out your biological parent is a villain. I think it would be dishonest if she didn't react that way.
John writes...
Hi Greg,
On my last question you repost: Define "love". Well, I know that Brooklyn didn´t really love Angela from our point of view. But from his point of view, he is in love, and so, I think, he would tell angela, that he is. So, will he ever?
CU, John
Greg responds...
They might have a conversation some day. But not until after the TimeDance, when it's WAY moot.
Anonymous writes...
To the Angela topic
Hi Greg. I don´t know English well but I will attempt that you understand me. I very like your work in Gargoyles and my congratulations because Gargoyles is the best cartoon serie that I saw in my life. Then, I ask: If the series of Gargoyles will continue one day, how can end the relation of Angela and Demona (mother and daughter)? (friendly, badly,dramaticaly),... Thanks.
Greg responds...
Who says it ends?
Anonymous writes...
I herd that in the future Angela and Broadway would have
kids.Just how meny kids will they have.
Greg responds...
3
White writes...
I was always curious to know if you had created Goliath's biological parents. And if so, what would they be like ( Biologicaly and phsycologicaly )
An other thing I was curious with is, Goliath recongnized Angela as his bioligical daughter, could he have recongnized his parents as well ? ( Although I do not think he would have considered them more importent than his other rockery parents )
Thanx in advance ;)
Greg responds...
I'm not that interested in Goliath's bio-parents specifically. And frankly, I only think Goliath "recognized" Angela because Elisa called it to his attention. (Then he started to dwell.)
Justin writes...
Greg,
This isn't really a question as much as a statement. I used to think Brooklyn and Angela should pair up, but after reading your dozens of responses, and upon closer inspection of the three eligible males Broadway was the better choice. He truly cares for her.
Anyway keep up the good work.
Greg responds...
Thanks, Justin. I appreciate the consideration.
Jay P. writes...
hello this question is about Angela. since i saw vows i allways whanted to see i child from Goliath and Demona. I was allways wondering what would happend if they had had a child. my question whent did you know that Angela was going to come into the picture? was it before City of Stone? and Why did you make the decigent to do so. I just love the ideal of Angela and i new Demona still had alot of good in her even after all the bad things she did.
thank you very much for taking the time to anser are questins.
Greg responds...
We knew about the eggs and that one of them was likely a child of Demona and Goliath's from way back in AWAKENING, PART ONE. I can't remember EXACTLY when we knew it was ANGELA per se, but it was fairly early on in our development of the second season.
Faieq Ali writes...
In THE JOURNEY, Broadway said something like 'I can't concentrate on my reading because Goliath is missing.'
Did he say this because he really couldn't concentrate on his reading or because Angela was standing right next to him and she just happens to be Goliath's daughter, who obiously had something on her mind?
By the way, I think Broadway and Angela work well together as in most cartoons it is always the 'cool one' (Brooklyn, in this case) that gets the girl, and I could see that in HUNTER'S MOON that Broadway did have real feelings for her and see her as another female. Just my opinion.
Greg responds...
I agree with you. I think Broadway had a lot of reasons for having difficulty concentrating. You named a few of the best.
Demona (repost by Aris) writes...
What's up, Greg? Angela was such a sweetheart and so innocent in the show's second season. When The Goliath Chronicles started with "The Journey", how come Angela's personality kind of changed? She totally ignored Brooklyn, in which she was just an "item" with him at the end of the last season. Why did you have to change Angela's personality? Thanks!!
Greg responds...
<Sigh.> Here we go again.
O.K. For starters, I didn't change Angela's personality one bit. Now MAYBE the guys who were in charge of the final twelve episodes of Goliath Chronicles did. I can't say. But I had nothing to do with any Goliath Chronicles episodes after the first one: "The Journey".
Having said that, Angela and Brooklyn were NEVER an "item". NEVER. Brooklyn certainly had a crush on her. But so did Lex and Broadway. And Broadway's feelings for her were deeper almost from the night they met. And if you caught the look they exchanged at the end of "Possessions" you would have seen that the only "item" in works was Angela & Broadway. In "The Journey" we simply made that official. That disappointed Brooklyn, but you could hardly say that Angela was "ignoring" him. She didn't even know he was eavesdropping on her and Broadway.
And none of this has anything to do with changing her personality. She's still, largely, a "sweetheart". Though she was always a warrior too. And no, she's not QUITE as "innocent" as she was -- she couldn't be after all she experienced -- but she was never exactly jaded. Certainly not in "The Journey".
Charles writes...
Okay, I have a question regarding being rookery siblings and lifemates. Gargoyles consider all the other gargoyles that hatch with them to be siblings. From what I understand, from among this group a gargoyle will also be expected to take a lifemate. Now, you can proably see where i'm heading. This kind of relationship sometimes strikes me as almost incestual, b/c a gargoyle will, for all intents and purposes, develop romantic and sexual feelings for what used to be his/her sister/brother. The problem is obviouslly avoided in cases such as Broadway and Angela, who didn't have much contact with each other, or between different geneartions of rookery litters, which I guess also applies to Broadway and Angela. What got me to thinking about this is when you denied Angela and Gabriel having feelings for each other b/c they were bros. and sisters and in the same sentence said Gabriel was mated wtih Ophelia, who I understood as also being a Rookery sibling. I guess you could say that i'm thinking too much like a human, which, I confess, is a big problem of mine.
8-)
Anyway, if you would give your interpretation and response to these thoughts of mine, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks so much to you and your fellow workers for creating such a wonderful show.
Greg responds...
Mostly, as you said, you're thinking too much like a human. None of a generations rookery siblings are biologically sister and brother. So the kind of incest taboo that you refer to wouldn't exist between them.
Look, think of it this way. Say you grew up in an orphanage with thirty plus other kids. All the same age. Both sexes. None related to each other. You were all raised together. When you're young and basically immature enough for sex to be a non-factor, all these kids would be like siblings to you. You'd get along better with some than others, but they'd be your de facto brothers and sisters. But as the years pass in this orphanage, as you all start to hit puberty, some of you would start to look at others in a different light. Not everyone. Some of you would maintain a close fraternal relationship. Others you were close to might grow distant. Some you didn't like might evolve into friends. Not brothers and sisters, but friends. And still others would become objects of attraction. But no matter what, you'd still be the thirty plus kids who grew up together in that orphanage. Whatever else happens, you'd always have that with all of them.
Gabriel and Angela don't still treat each other as brother and sister because it was some kind of mandatory result of them being rookery siblings. It's simply how their relationship developed, whereas Gabriel and Ophelia obviously had the hots for each other. Even though at a young age, they were raised in that "orphanage" on Avalon together.
Does that help, human?
Ultra-Coyote 6.0 writes...
Hi mr. Weisman!
Since you watched the Simpsons, I wanted to tell you some funny paralells I found.
Do you remember the episode where they introduced a new character for Ichy & Scratchy? The man said something like : "...so you want a cartoon with real life situations, futuristic robots and magical powers?!". Of course, I immediatly thought of Gargoyles; if only Matt Groening knew!
Later in the episode, Lisa said that new characters in cartoons are just used to raise the ratings. I think that's what Angela was for in Gargoyles...well it worked! I never watched Gargoyles so much ever since she appeared, because I missed a lot of episodes and wondered where she came from.
Greg responds...
I don't know if Angela raised ratings. That wasn't really why we added her. Mostly, I felt she was a character we were missing. A hole in the show that needed filling. But of course, she also opened up some wonderful story avenues for us too.
Basilisk writes...
I'd like to ask your opinion on a ramble that I've written.
One of my all-time favorite episodes is POSSESSION. In POSSESSION, Broadway, Angela, and Brooklyn were vessels for the spirits of Coldstone, Coldfire, and Coldsteel. I have always believed that there were reasons for this.
As I see it, Broadway and Angela were possessed by the lovers, Coldstone and Coldfire for a reason. I always thought that it was a subtle way to hint that it would be they that became a couple themselves. Brooklyn was used by Coldsteel because he subconsciously possessed jealousy toward Broadway for his success with Angela that Coldsteel harbored for Coldstone about Coldfire. I was lead to believe that especially where Brooklyn/Coldsteel was going to carry the unconscious Angela/Coldfire away because of his jealous lust for her.
Those are merely my assumptions. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Greg responds...
It's a chicken and the egg thing.
Did the Coldtrio's unbound spirits sense something or cause something?
At any rate, behind the scenes, we certainly used it as a stepping stone to an eventual Broadway/Angela relationship.
DragonWolf writes...
First of all, Mr. Weisman, I would like to congradulate you on a great series and a job well done.
I would like to comment on a particular aspect: Angela.
I was impressed at how subtly you addressed the problem of the Manhattan clan's lack of females, which meant there could be no continuation of the clan. The only female attached to the clan was Demona, and with her being what she is, it is not exactly likely that she would breed with any of them. I liked the way you solved it with the fates of the Wyvern clan's eggs, which lead to introducing Goliath's daughter, Angela. (I love the contrast to her mother Demona's name, Demon/Angel.) She's a great character.
I was quite pleased that you had Angela choose Broadway over Brooklyn and Lexington, but Brooklyn especially.
When I first saw how the trio was vying for Angela's favor, it got me thinking. As it was inevitable that she would choose, I began wondering who. My favorite is Broadway, but followed closely by Lexington. I'm not overfond of Brooklyn.
My first thought was that she would choose Brooklyn, because he's the second in command, and the leader or semi-leader is in most stories the one to "get the girl". Lexington doesn't really seem the type for Angela; he was probably acting through hormones. Broadway, however, had the same disposition as Angela, and was a more gentle, more likable type. I hoped he would be chosen, but still thought it would be Brooklyn.
I must commend you on pairing Broadway and Angela. As I mentioned before, Lexington simply doesn't seem right, and Brooklyn... well, Brooklyn will go for any girl who's got wings. Not only Angela, but Maggie, too... I'm even under the impression that he developed a crush on Demona in TEMPTATION!
So great work, and good thinking. I salute you and your work!
Greg responds...
Thanks, but as I've said before, this was less a choice than something that just felt right.
As for Brooklyn, I do think he was crush-happy, but I am over-fond of the guy, so I don't want it to seem like Broadway "won Angela" because he won some kind of popularity contest over Brook and Lex with me.
Zuppstein Luvir Manoruvver writes...
Hiyah, I'm Zupp! I love Gargoyles sooooo much, and they simply kick. They're way to good for Toon Disney!
My Q's are on relationships in GARGOYLES:
1) Why did you give Angela to Broadway? I don't wanna like offend you or something, but she'd be so much better as Brooklyn's. They look a heck of a lot better together than Angela and Broadway.
2) In teh avalon episodes, especially when Angela leaves for the first time, she and Gabriel were always together. Gabriel at least acted like he was in love with her. But you said that Gabriel was going with Ophelia. Was there ever anything with Angela and Gabriel?
3. The Goliath/Elisa relationship rocks! I love how you got rid of a gap between 2 species with it. But will they ever have a future together?
Thanx!
Greg responds...
1. I didn't "give" Angela to Broadway. As she herself said, she's not a prize to be won by OR gifted to anyone. As for a direct answer to your question, sorry, but I'm tired of answering this one. If you'd bothered to check the Angela or the Trio archive to this site you would have seen that this question has been asked and answered many times. I don't want to offend YOU, but if you think she'd be better off with Brooklyn, then I think you weren't paying very close attention.
2. Again, no. Check the archives for a more complete answer. But Angela and Gabriel had a much more fraternal relationship. Think of them as fraternal twin siblings. They were very close. But it was brother/sister affection -- never romance.
3. Yes.
(Zupp, I'm sorry if this response seems harsh. But I've got a ton of questions to go through, and it's a little tough when the questioner doesn't bother to check the specific archive for his question first.)
Nyrtleka writes...
In the AskGreg Archive, you wrote: "I expect Angela, Sora, Ophelia, Boudicca, Obsidiana, and Turquesa to all lay eggs in 2008."
As I see it, Angela is Broadway's mate, Sora is (presumably) Kai's mate, Ophelia is Gabriel's mate, Obsidiana is Zafiro's mate, and Turquesa is Jade's mate. But what about Boudicca? Did she and Bronx mate? It seems logical, since (other than Fu-Dog) there are no other gargoyle beasts in the series. Is this true?
Greg responds...
Sora is Yama's mate. And Boudicca has mated and probably will again mate with Bronx.
LSZ writes...
1) In the Gargoyles universe, is it possible for magical talent to be inherited among gargoyles and fae? If you're descended from a sorceror, do you have the potential for magic-using?
2) If that is true, does Angela have any magical potential from Demona?
Greg responds...
1. If you're descended from a pianist, does that increase the liklihood that you can play the piano. Yep. So yep. But it's no guarantee.
2. Potential? Sure. But don't look for her to become a sorceress. Not really her style.
Lexy writes...
Hey Greg
This may be a kinda dumb question. (slight pause) This may be just like every other Q I have ever asked:)
Ok I was just wondering. Goliath has taken some steps since he met Angela. He doesn't mind that she calls him father and that she feels a need to have father daughter..er..talks..whatever. But he still goes along with the children of the clan thing. Ok heres my point. While Goliath is still more on the "children of the clan" dealy..Demona seems a lot more willing to say "My daughter" and treat Angela special. Is most of that due to her just trying to sway Angela to her side of things? Or is it because Demona seriously puts more stock in the _MY daughter thing. Like maybe they don't understand me, but she might because shes my daughter? Or maybe she senses or can at least recognize the fact that Angela _does_ want to build some form of a relationship. Since Demona feels so alone and all, does that mean something to her?
Sorry. Rambled again:P
Greg responds...
YES on all counts. (Not a dumb question at all. Why would you think that?)
Aris Katsaris writes...
In *three* out of the four episodes between 'Gathering' and 'Hunter's Moon', namely in 'Vendettas', in 'Turf' and in 'Possession', Hudson and Goliath are out in patrol together. It seems far too much of a coincidence: was this done intentionally so as to leave the Trio alone with Angela?
In a sense, were the two older gargs realizing that with the coming of Angela, the youngsters would appreciate some time together without intrusion from elders?
Greg responds...
Uh, in my head, Turf and Vendettas were happening simultaneously. I'm not sure that really works as aired. Or really matters for that matter. But that's what was in my head back when we were writing them. So that explains two out of the three. As for Possession, we really did that to make Puck's trick work, if I'm going to be honest.
However, I like your interpretation, so yeah, why not?
"Blacklight" Lara writes...
What stage was Broadway and Angela's relationship at, when Coldfire and Coldstone borrowed their bodies for that offscreen "reunion"? I remember that when the Colds thanked them for the loan, Angela said, "It was... our pleasure", and Broadway gave a look like he thought, "Wow, really?"
Greg responds...
Just beginning. It was a major (if subtle) step in their relationship. It created a connection. Brought Broadway to Angela's special attention.
CORRECTION
CORRECTION:
I'll be at ANIME EXPO on SATURDAY, JULY 1ST! At 1pm. Talking about 3x3 Eyes, among other things. Sorry for any confusion.
Anime Expo
Attention anime lovers...
I will be at Anime Expo on Saturday, July 2nd in Anaheim, California. I'll be on the New Generation Pictures panel at 1pm, where I'll largely be discussing 3X3 EYES. Other topics of discussion include NAZCA and NURSE NANAKO. (I'm not involved with the last one at all, so I hope I got the title right.) Stop by and say hi.
3X3 is a really fun series that I just finished voice directing into English. It stars Christian "Max Steel" Campbell and Brigitte "Angela" Bako, and features many former GARGOYLES actors including Goliath, Thailog, Morgan, Broadway, Hollywood, Lexington, Brentwood, Obsidiana, Coyote Trickster, Natsilane, Hudson, Jack Danforth and Burbank. It's the story of a three-eyed three hundred year old demon girl with multiple personality disorder and the teen-age zombie bodyguard who loves her.
Hope to see you there.
Todd Jensen writes...
In your vision, how does Goliath feel about Broadway and Angela's relationship? Does he approve of Broadway as a future "son-in-law"?
Greg responds...
Of course.
But again, try not to think too much like a human. Angela is just one of many clan-daughters. Since you know he likes Broadway, why wouldn't he want the big guy to mate with one of them?
Michael Norton writes...
Dear Greg,
1) I am sure that Brooklyn's infatuations with both Maggie and Angela were BOTH hormonal and emotional. But which did you feel that it was more of?
2) It almost seemed out of character that Brook didn't react to Delilah with some interest. Did you ever toy with the idea?
3) Does Brooklyn's clone share his weakness for the opposite sex?
Greg responds...
1. I'm not big on quantifying emotions.
2. No. For starters, I think all the clones sorta creeped the Trio out. And the whole Elisa/Delilah thing was just too wierd.
3. Most heterosexuals share that weakness.
Angela writes...
Dear Greg, This question is about the Angela and Brooklyn relationship. At the end of season 2, why were you hinting at an attraction or possible relationship between them, and then out of nowhere have Broadway come in and mess everything up? Here's my proof that Angela was probably going to go with Brooklyn: in "The Reckoning", Demona hit Brooklyn and he fell onto a roof. Angela immediately rushed to his side, held up his beak, and lovingly looked into his eyes. Also, in "Hunter's Moon: Part 1" Brooklyn got shot in the arm, and Angela rushed to his side again to see if he was OK, and bandaged his arm.
I mean, how could you do that? Poor Brooklyn, the poor guy can't win. Angela and Broadway DO NOT go together. Yuck! And how could you have Angela ignore Brooklyn after all the things they did together before "The Journey." It just doesn't make sense. Why did you just suddenly change your mind with that? Brooklyn and Angela make the cutest couple, then you denied them that. How come? :)
Greg responds...
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
AGAIN...
I never changed my mind. I was never hinting at a possible Brooklyn/Angela romance. Quite the reverse, Gary Sperling and I decided early on that Broadway and Angela were right for each other. And we were hinting at that. Yes, Brooklyn liked her. The way he liked Maggie. That is shallowly and without any real thought as to whether his feelings were reciprocated. He didn't love the real Angela, just the romantic opportunity she represented.
As to your proof, you read that loving look into the Reckoning. Probably Brooklyn did the same. You must have wanted to believe that as he did. It was just sisterly compassion. Same in Hunter's Moon. Any injured gargoyle would have gotten the same treatment. Broadway saw the real Angela, and she saw the real Broadway. They care about each other and love each other beyond surface.
Look, obviously, you are a Brooklyn fan. Me too. Wouldn't you rather see him end up with someone he truly loved for who she was. Someone who loved him the same way. That's Katana. Trust me.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Hmm... is Angela more emotionally connected to princess Katherine or to Goliath? For example, for whose death would she be more griefstricken about?
Greg responds...
Oh, come on, Aris.
I KNOW you know better than to ask me to quantify grief.
Angela's got a big heart. A huge heart, which she largely wears on her sleeve (if she had a sleeve). There's room enough for all her parents.
Seriously, aren't you just a little ashamed of yourself. :)
Aris Katsaris writes...
I believe you've said that Gabriel will learn he's Coldstone and Coldfire's son (and I think vice-versa as well). To what extent will he *care* about this? As much as Angela cared about her own parentage? Less so? Will he be completely uninterested, considering only the Princess/Guardian/Magus to be his real parents?
Greg responds...
I think he'd care more than, say Broadway. Probably not as much as Angela. The difference is that Coldstone and Coldfire wouldn't care at all. That is, they'd be thrilled that all their children survived. To them, Angela is as much a daughter as Gabriel is a son. They were too distracted to deal with that in Possessions. But if I had been able to get back to that....
Todd Jensen writes...
We know that a major factor in Demona's motivations is her suppressed guilt for the sack of Castle Wyvern and the destruction of her clan there, which she knows somewhere deep down inside she was responsible for, but which she consciously rejects and blames on the humans. But is it just the massacre of the clan in its stone sleep that she feels this unadmitted guilt about? Just before Demona left the castle, in "City of Stone Part One", she saw Princess Katharine and the Magus taking the eggs away. Obviously she didn't know that they'd changed for the better in their feelings about gargoyles and were no longer the bigots that they once had been, nor that Goliath had appointed them the guardians of the eggs so that what they were doing was perfectly legitimate. To Demona, it must have seemed like they were looting the rookery and taking the eggs away for some unknown horrible purpose. And she simply let them do it, without making any effort to come to the eggs' rescue and save what little remained of the clan now.
So is that another factor in Demona's buried guilt? That she abandoned the eggs to their fate? (You stated that you considered Goliath in the wrong for turning the eggs over to Katharine and taking the easy way out by asking the Magus to turn him to stone rather than look after them alone, but at least he knew that the Princess and the Magus were not the people that they had once been, and that they would take good care of the eggs - as indeed they did. Demona couldn't have known any of that).
Greg responds...
Yes.
And I'd love to dialogue with you on this, but you put it so succinctly and well, I'm not sure what I could add.
So I'll just confirm.
Chris writes...
What made Angela decide to become mates with Broadway? (I'm not one of those people who are actually upset about this turn of events, i just wanted to know) I personally thought Angela and Brooklyn would've been a good couple.
Greg responds...
Why did you think that?
People say this all the time to me, because Brooklyn is the obvious (more-or-less) romantic lead type. But what actually made you think that they'd make a good couple?
As to why Broadway/Angela, I've answered that ad nauseum. Sorry. Check the archives for multiple more complete answers. The short answer is that Broadway loved Angela for who she was. Brooklyn for what she was. That's a huge difference that Angela could sense.
Broadway and Angela have a lot in common that way. They both read people well. They look inside. Not at surfaces.
Chris writes...
If Goliath and Elisa were to become mates, what do you think the other gargoyles'(especially Demona's)reaction would be?
Greg responds...
I think everyone in the immediate clan would react very positively at this point.
As for Demona... well how do ya think she'd react? (Trust me, she's not sending china.)
Laurin writes...
Did Demona ever have any other hatchlings?Did she try and change after she used Angela?
Greg responds...
No.
Did she TRY to change? No.
Marc writes...
How did you decide on pairing Angela and Broadway? You guys really fooled me because it seemed before The Journey all was hinting towards a Brooklyn-Angela pairing.
Greg responds...
We were never hinting toward Brooklyn/Angela. Quite the reverse. Gary Sperling and I made this decision together when he was working on Turf. But it just felt right. Broadway seemed the guy who was most attentive to Angela as an individual. The person most in touch with his so-called feminine side. Brooklyn was just after any chick with wings, frankly. And I think Lex pursued her because his brothers were and it seemed like the right thing to do. Only Broadway was interested in who Angela was. In my mind, he's clearly the most mature when it comes to this stuff. Brooklyn's a leader. And I love the guy, but he confuses a crush with deep abiding love. He needs a little more emotional maturity before he's ready for this "Gargoyles mate for life" thing.
Stacey writes...
Hello! This is my first time asking a question, but I was alwayas very curious about gargoyle anatomy. Brooklyn in the character that puzzles me the most. I have noticed that his wings are the type that have little hands on the top of them. I have also noticed that the only other gargoyles that have this type of wing structure are female gargoyles. Why did you decide to make his wings look like that, and what purpose do the little hands serve?
Greg responds...
It just so happens that he and Demona have the same wing-type. Angela inherited hers from her mother. Not all females have that type. Coldfire didn't for example. Neither did Una. It's not a male/female thing. It's just one of the many minor garg anitomical variations.
Aris Katsaris writes...
This is more of a comment/correction rather than a question. I think that you've miscalculated a date. In a previous Ask Greg question you had said that you had once calculated that the gargs both in Avalon and in the real world will lay eggs at 2008. I think that must have been a mistake on your part: I believe that gargoyles lay egg in their 50th or 49th year (biological 25). That would mean that in Avalon-time 50*24=1200 years. The gargs at avalon should lay their eggs only 1200 real-world years after they were hatched. That in turn means that if they were hatched around somewhere around year 1040, they shouldn't lay eggs until 2240 or something like that...
Anyway thought I should mention this...
Greg responds...
No, that's not right.
God knows it's been years since I did this math, however I think you are operating on faulty assumptions.
Yes, the Avalon eggs hatched in 1044.
Thus by 1995, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, et al. would all be biologically twenty years old. That's way past Gargoyle puberty in my book. So what remains is for their internal clocks to be in sync, so to speak, with the natural rhythms of the Earth that would put the females "in heat" (for lack of a better term). That would next occur sometime in late 2007 or early 2008.
That easily puts, say, Ophelia in synch with Angela and Obsidiana out in the real world. The difference comes twenty years later in 2028, when the latter two might again lay eggs. But to Ophelia she would have only just laid her first egg a mere 20 months ago. I don't know whether that's enough recovery time for her, enough time for her own internal cycle -- but in any case her first egg certainly wouldn't have hatched yet.
It's also worth considering whether Ophelia and Angela might have been "in heat" in Avalon in 1988? Maybe they were, and maybe Katharine was preaching abstinence in a major way.
Suddenly, I feel like this is Christine's show. :) [No, I haven't read her fan-fiction, but boy have I heard rumors.]
In any case, for those of you with dirty minds, I think Angela was a virgin even at the time of "The Journey". (Broadway too for that matter.) Not so sure about Ophelia.
Shauntell writes...
Okay, I just have a couple of questions...
1) In "Mark Of The Panther" what sort of things were going through Goliath's mind after his discussion with Diane and as he was approaching Angela?
You had commented that what Diane said made him realize some things, but what other things would he have thought about on that? Would he and Angela have discussed their problem?
2) In, "Eye Of The Storm" what were the reasons for having Goliath done the Eye of Odin? Was he ever to be a sorceror? If not, why have him use the Eye? What was the significance of that episode?
Well... I think that's it for now. Chow!!
Greg responds...
1. That Angela was his daughter by anyone's definition, including his own. In the interest of trying to make her see the difference between gargoyle and human definitions of parenthood, he had neglected to be any kind of father. A lot of this came out of paranoia involving Demona. If Angela gave him special status as her biological father, she might also grant Demona special status too. Which in fact, she did. Though I don't think it harmed anyone.
2. Sorry, but questions on separate topics must be posted separately.
lisa writes...
1.did goliath and co ever tell macbeth or demona of what happened on avalon and if so how did they react?
Greg responds...
My guess is that no one filled Macbeth in. If they had, then Macbeth would have reacted differently to Arthur in "Pendragon". It's possible that Angela told Demona about it during her "Reckoning" incarceration. But then again, maybe she didn't. I'm not sure that Angela would feel any value would come out of bringing that up.
Airwalker writes...
Did Angela inherit her father's stubborness and her mother's temper or her father's temper and her mother's stubborness?
Greg responds...
All of the above wouldn't you say? And yet, I think she probably has a good bit of Katharine in there. Maybe more of her than anyone.
Siren writes...
I keep thinking of more things...
On Garg evolution...I think the most likely would evolve from dinosaurs.Birds also evolved too, from what I believe. They just took 2 different ends of the spectrum. Birds becoming smaller and more lightweight, gaining feathers and loosing scales. Gargs get are smaller dinosaurs, just not as small as birds. They are built with more muscle and kept
the pteridacyl wings ('scuse my spelling). Brooklyn is obviously evolved from one of them thingies I can't spell. Plus you have the South American Clan, they deffinetly look reptilian. And Ophelia, she looks much like a triceratops and any other horned/crested dino (which I absolutly love on her!!!!)
But also into consideration, the Britian Clan...Where did they come from? Are they too evolved
from dinosaurs???? Doubtful. They are set so far apart from the others, more mammilian. Are they
more evolved mammals? Is Griff just an evolved eagle that looks like a griffon or an evolved griffon? Is Leo an evolved Lion?
And is that Una's real horn or jewlry? Is she an evolved horse or unicorn?
Which brings something else to mind about gargoyles...How do their babies eat? Are gargoyles
mammals? I would deffinetly say, warm blooded. And they do seem very mammilian. So does that
mean, that if Demona had the chance to raise Angela, she'd be fed on breastmilk? If so, how did
Cathryn, Magus, Tom, and his mother feed 36 hatchlings?
Greg responds...
Uh. It would have helped if you had numbered your questions....
In my head, Gargoyles are a separate classification which (in the past) I've nicknamed "Gargates". Both Gargoyles and Gargoyle Beasts evolved from this grouping, just as Primates include both humans and various apes. The Gargate-ancestor species go back to the time of the dinosaurs, so to answer your first set of questions, I'd have to ask you how you are defining the word "Dinosaur"? Colloquially, i.e. to include all species that existed during what we popularly think of as the age of dinosaurs, or are you using the term in a scientific sense, which would leave out a number of species that we generally think of as dinosaurs?
As for the various clans, appearances are superficial and can be deceiving. Leo has much more in common biologically with Goliath than he does with a Lion. Zafiro has much more in common with Griff, Leo, Una and Goliath, etc. then he does with a snake. All are Gargates. None are Mammals or Reptiles or Marsupials or Birds, though they may share a few characteristics with one or more of those groups. They are, I believe, warm-blooded, for example.
Una's horn is her horn. It's not jewelry. Though it was decorated.
Garg babies generally would drink milk from clan-mother breasts.
And yes, that did present Tom, Katharine and the Magus with a problem. Fortunately, they were on Avalon. And Avalon provided. Some trial and error was probably involved, but a replacement for breast milk was found...
Airwalker writes...
Hudson didn't seem as upset as Goliath had been in the World Tour about Angela recognising Demona as her biological mother. Why was that? (I mean I see Hudson as the bastion of old style Gargoyle tradition. So shouldn't his reaction have been stronger than Goliath's had been?)
Greg responds...
When? Are we talking about "The Reckoning"?
Hudson had the time and the distance to be steadier.
Goliath's head is still pretty messed up regarding Demona. It's much more personal. Much more psychologically dangerous.
Hudson can recognize that in Goliath and choose to act as a balancer. Hudson hopefully is more three dimensional than simply being the 'bastion of old Gargoyle tradition'.
Airwalker writes...
Goliath basically commited suicide at the end of AWAKENINGS 2 and also abandoned his children. Why hasn't anyone ever brought this up to his face? It's not the same as Demona's betraying the castle but it is just as bad. He abandoned his unborn children and while he did ask Katharine and the Magus to care for them, they didn't exactly have a great record dealing with Gargoyles up to that point. For all he knew they could have done anything after he was frozen.
What are the feelings of the Eggs on this? I understand that Guardian, Magus, and Katharine cared for them, loved them and raised them as their own children but some of them must have some sort of feeling about being abandoned by Goliath. (I know that this sounds like I'm asking for 36 (technically 35, we can't really count Boudicca) individual responses but I'm really interested specifically in Angela, Gabriel, and Ophelia's opinions and only what the general concensus is among the others.)
Greg responds...
This is a great, but VERY complex question.
Even answering just for Angela would require a term paper.
But one thing you need to understand right off the bat is that the "Eggs" were taught their GOLIATH history by Katharine, Tom and the Magus. I doubt Goliath came off as a "bad dad who committed suicide" in their telling of the tale. (Though, that's exactly what happened of course.)
In fact, we have evidence that the clan thought of Goliath as a mystical savior. A Sleeping King who would one day awaken and return when his clan needed him. And isn't that exactly what happened. Tom himself, only a boy when all the bad stuff went down, seemed to feel that finding Goliath would solve all his Archmage problems. (Lucky for him, Elisa and Bronx went along for the ride.)
When you consider the guilt that the Magus (and I assume Katharine) were not shy about revealing, you can see how the story could easily be colored in G's favor.
Now, I'm not saying that every individual garg bought the party line. But, gee, when Goliath did finally show up, things turned out pretty well. With the Archmage, with Oberon. Even the skeptical might have been convinced.
Which really only leaves us with Angela. I feel that after their Nigerian adventure, Goliath would have begun to open up more honestly with her. To reveal truths that he himself might not be conscious of. (After all, she's very intuitive.) She may now know the truth. But to her -- well, my God, there were so many extenuating circumstances. And her life has been so darn great, how's she supposed to complain or feel bitter? It doesn't seem her style.
Anyway, that's what I figure...
Airwalker writes...
In the AskGreg Archive, you wrote: "I expect Angela, Sora, Ophelia, Boudicca, Obsidiana, and Turquesa to all lay eggs in 2008." You said that females share a common cycle and you also said that you wondered if Katana would rejoin that cycle or not. You also said that with Angela, she would. But Boudicca and Ophelia live on Avalon, so in 2008, shouldn't they be out of synch with the real world?
Greg responds...
Actually, no. It's literally been years, but back in 1995 I did the math. It works out that 2008 would coincide with the cycles of both Avalon and the outside world.
Alaxk writes...
Greetings again
3. Would there be conflict between Samson and Brooklin similar to the conflict that was building between Brooklin and Goliath?
4. This may seem stupid, but... Is Samson the son of Broadway and Angela?
Greg responds...
3. I don't accept the premise of your question. Or maybe I don't understand it.
4. Yes.
*The Bride of Ringo* writes...
Hi once again doll... ok, here's my question:
1) Did Goliath kind of already know that Angela was his biological daughter before the events in 'Monsters' happened but just didn't say he already knew? The reason i ask this is that in "Avalon: Part 1" Elisa points out that Angela looks like Demona, but with different coloring, Goliath knows what he looks like and what Demona looks like, so maybe he figured in his own head Angela was his biologic child. Also, in "Shadows of the past" as Goliath shows Angela the rookery he looks at her, at that same time he hear Demona saying "Come to me".
Greg responds...
Yeah, I think Goliath figured it out instantly. And I think he instantly felt a kinship with her. But also with Gabriel, who isn't his biological son. Goliath doesn't have the same "social programming" we do with regard to biological offspring.
Airwalker writes...
Glad to see AskGreg is back up.
1. Does Demona know about the Illuminati Society?
2. Does the Illuminati Society know about Demona?
3. Why exactly did you decide that Jackal and Hyena would become Cyborgs and that Wolf would become a Mutate? Why specifically that combination instead visa versa?
4. How long has Nokkar's intergalactic war been going on?
5. What happened to the helicopter Lexington fixed in HER BROTHERS KEEPER?
6. You said that New Olympians generally live for 13-250 years. So would any of the New Olympians we know be alive and around in 2158?
7. How does the Avalon Clan feel about Demona and Macbeth? (They must know those two weren't acting under their own will during the fight with the Archmage but to someone who they injured that little bit of information might not exactly displace anger at being injured.)
8. After all these years, does Macbeth know that Demona was listioning outside his window when Bodhe suggested betraying her clan to the English?
9. What are the Mutates feelings towards Alex Xanatos?
10. Why didn't Xanatos try to make Coldfire and Clodsteel look more "alive"; meaning why not slap some fake flesh on them like he did for Cyoti 1.0?
11. In POSSESSION, why wasn't Angela shocked at seeing Coldstone? After all when Goliath first saw him, he called him an abomination.
12. What was Goliath thinking in SANCTUARY and MARK OF THE PANTHER when he kept tellin Angela that she has many mothers and fathers? Who was he thinking of? There's only him, Hudson, Coldstone, Demona, and the Trio at that point. Did he seriously expect the Trio to think of Anglea as their daughter?
13. In 2158, how do you picture the world political status? Are there still seperate countries for example?
14. What is the legal status of Gargoyles in 2158?
15. What is Renard's opinion of Petros Xanatos?
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. Quite a bit.
3. A lot had to do with what felt right for the characters I guess. Wolf was very animalistic and hostile. Seemed perfect to make him a genetic werewolf. Jackal & Hyena were just nuts. A sociopath and a psychopath. It felt right that they would take things to the ultimate extreme.
4. Quite some time, young feller.
5. Kenner decided not to make a toy out of it.
6. That wasn't my plan.
7. Indiviuals all react differently. I'm not going to give you thirty-six individual responses.
8. I think he figured it out that night on Lunfanan Hill.
9. Which Mutate?
10. Fake gargoyle flesh? What would be the point?
11. Well, the truth here is that Angela had seen him already in the Himalayas. At least that had been my plan if the comic book hadn't been cancelled.
12. He was trying to instill in her the idea that her preoccupation with her biological parentage was an unhealthy human notion. (And since he knew Demona was her biological mother, you can see where his fear was coming from.) Of course, he lost the forest for the trees as Diane Maza pointed out in "Mark". He tried to make up for it later.
13. Yes and no.
14. Protected minority.
15. They barely know each other. And on some level, I think they'd get along, except for one thing... Renard hates David. And though Petros doesn't approve of much of his son's actions, I can't see him standing calmly by while someone else berates his son. Blood. Whatchagonnado?
Karen writes...
Hiya! First of all i'd like to say that you have made an excellent series, congrats on the great work. Ok...I'm a first-timer but I have read the archives so I'll be careful not to ask anything that I can remember already being asked.
1) Why is it that it took Goliath so long to finally except Angela as his daughter but it didn't take Demona very long at all? infact, it seemed as though she had completely excepted Angela as hers, not even asking about the other members of the rookery. Any reason for this?
2) If you had to pick one, which would you say is the most truly Evil villain on the show? (The one who is bad merely to see people suffer or something)
3) Since what biologic ages would you say that Goliath and Demona were a couple?
Well.. although I've been itchin' to do this for so long but wasn't able to because it had been down, I can't remember any of the questions I had lined up... oh well.. I'll save them for another day i suppose.
Greg responds...
Now to answer my first question of ASK GREG - The Next Generation.
Hi Karen,
1. Goliath was very concerned about playing favorites. Angela, to his mind, was way too concerned about him as her BIOLOGICAL father. To his upbringing, that showed bad taste. Of course, she was raised differently. Once Diane Maza pointed out to Goliath that Angela was the only daughter in the vicinity, Goliath lept at the chance to be her dad. It's not that he didn't love her, but he was a novice father and he didn't want to screw up.
Demona's motivations, as usual, were more complicated. Assuming Sevarius filled her in about Angela sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Demona had time to plan an "attack" on her daughter, or at least on her daughter's loyalties. As usual, Demona is her own worst enemy. She initially saw Angela as an opportunity, not a child. By the time she realized how important Angela truly was to her, it was all but too late.
2. Gee... Did we have any of those? I guess Hyena, Jackal and Wolf sorta qualify. Proteus was pretty nasty. Yeah. Maybe Proteus.
3. Don't have my timeline here with me, so I can't pin it down exactly. But by 971 they were already falling for each other, so that should give you an idea...