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Verdragon writes...
What's the hardest casting choice you've had to make in your showrunner career?
Greg responds...
Hardest casting choice?
Not sure what that means in context. Like we had two people and couldn't decide which one to pick? I can't even think of an example of that.
We've had some roles that were hard to cast. Goliath and Elisa come to mind, but once we found Keith and Salli, respectively, the decision was easy.
There have been roles where my first choice was over-ridden by TPTB, but it's always worked out pretty darn well, anyway.
Noble Maiden writes...
Hello Mr.Greg. I have been a big fan of your work since I was 13 To this date, I love Gargoyles (which I love making art of them and creating many OC) and recently became a fan of Young Justice.
I have many questions, but I won't take much of your time. There's one doubt that has been on my mind about Elisa Maza for a while now.
I know that in a Police Unit there are many departments for different types of crimes, from homicide to cybercrimes.
So it makes me wonder if Elisa has a specific department. Seeing how much she investigates Organized crime like Dracon and robbery, makes me wonder if she is a detective in Special Investigations.
I would truly appreciate an answer and I appreciate giving your time to answer all our questions.
Greg responds...
There are specialized units, but not everyone is assigned to them. Elisa is in the Detective Squad.
Anonymous writes...
when creating halo, did no one stop to think that killing gabrielle and having a motherbox use her corpse was a bad idea for your first (and only) female muslim hero? i know your response before was that it was taken from the comics, but now with oracle's origin we can clearly see you guys aren't afraid to change things. so you could've easily changed it to have gabrielle resurrected with the powers of a motherbox instead.
and i feel like you still don't see the issue here, which is that violet is not a muslim woman of color, so you don't get credit for "turning a woman of color from a victim to hero" as you've said. you killed a woman of color and possessed her corpse. i'm sorry but i just can't get over how no one saw a problem with that.
Greg responds...
We talked about this a lot, actually, with a number of people, including with a Muslim woman of color. And, no. No one saw a problem. As with all things, people's mileage varies.
We had not, yet, involved MPAC in our creative process. Maybe they would've had a problem with how we introduced Halo if they had been involved in Season Three. But MPAC's involvement and interaction with us began during the creation of Season Four. At that point, when we told them where we were going with the character, they were good with it. Even, I dare say, enthusiastic. MPAC and other Muslims we've consulted have been happy with who Halo/Violet has become, or in any case, with the journey that we've put them on.
But just so I'm clear, you'd have preferred - since we were doing THIS story - that the character had been white?
I mean I get that you'd have preferred that the character had been a Muslim woman of color with a different story, but I'm not a big fan of fans who tell me which story to tell. This was the story we wanted to tell. This was the version of Halo we wanted to create.
But we could have made Gabrielle a white girl, I guess. She's a white girl in the comics. We could have had yet another blonde in the cast.
But we already had aliens who present as white, including Superman and Hawkwoman, among others. We've also had a dead girl who was white, i.e. Secret.
It seems to me that having Halo be a person of color - even a person of color who (as you dismissively note) was created from a corpse possessed by an alien spirit - was a step in the right direction. Especially since we knew where we were going with the character. You may not like how Violet became Violet, and I respect that. (I don't apologize for it, but I respect it.) But now that you've seen where we've taken the character, I wonder if there's another way to look at it.
Yes, Gabrielle is dead. Her death is horrible and tragic. She was vulnerable. And she was exploited and murdered. Now, she's dead.
But Violet is alive. They are not Gabrielle. But they are definitely a person of color (as much as Clark Kent's a white guy - and I think we can all agree that Clark Kent is a white guy). And now they're a person of color, who's interested in exploring the Muslim heritage that mattered so much to Gabrielle. In essence, Violet is seriously thinking about converting to Islam, in part because of Gabrielle's memory of faith. And I doubt we would've gotten that story if we'd made Gabrielle a white girl.
Because, here's the thing: we're doing genre fiction here. That means we are using aliens, demons, ghosts, mermaids and robots to tell stories about the human condition. I reject the notion that all our diversity MUST somehow come from fully human characters like Dick Grayson and Artemis Crock. Again, no one doubts that stories about a Kryptonian aren't capable of telling us something about the human condition. Or that Atlanteans and Amazons aren't human enough to empathize with. So some of our characters are going to have bizarre and even horrifying origins. That's the genre. So do we play it safe and only do white characters when we go inhuman?
Some of our aliens look like space aliens. Some look like humans. Most of those humans look white historically. We're trying to turn the battleship on that notion. So Martian Manhunter - when he looks human - looks Black. Icon is Black. Highmother and General Zod are Black. Lor-Zod is biracial. B'arzz O'oomm, when he looks human, looks Latinx. And Halo looks Arabic. It's not much. But it's a start.
Now, don't get me wrong. I understand that a big problem that you have with Halo is that Gabrielle was the only Muslim woman of color in the show. (It's not actually true, of course. But no one wants to count villains like Queen Bee or Talia al Ghul, who probably only pay lip service to being Muslim.) So we need more representation. More representation is always better. We're working on it. Maybe not as fast as everyone would like. But we're trying. Truly, honestly, trying. In fact, I've been trying to increase representation my entire career for all sorts of different communities. I know my track record is mixed. I've taken a lot of swings, and some of those swings have been misses. (And maybe Halo was another miss - though I truly don't think so.) But Elisa Maza didn't come from nowhere. I PUT her in Gargoyles. And that was nearly thirty years ago. We need to do better, and we continue to strive to do better. And, meanwhile, we have increased the Muslim representation in YJ. Madia's role has expanded. Khalid Nassour joined the cast. We met his Muslim parents briefly. And we're only getting started, frankly. I can't promise you we'll get more seasons. So maybe our progress on this particular show will be arrested. But I'm not done (I hope). And I will continue to strive to do the best I can. Because this MATTERS to me. I promise you. And we're also learning to bring in more voices. More readers like the folks at MPAC and GLAAD and ASAN. More diverse writers. An increasingly diverse cast. Etc. We're a work in progress. But even that IS progress.
All of which is NOT to say that you need to agree with us, with me, with any of it. Again, I respect your point of view. The decisions we made still work for us. But I don't have any illusion that I can somehow TALK you into making it work for you. Your responses to what's on the screen are your own. And they're valid. Period.
Still, we've done everything in our power in Season Four to make sure that everything we do with the character of Halo is as respectful as possible going forward. We don't always succeed. I just hope you see that we're trying.
Jeri writes...
What do you think of shipping? What's the most surprising pairing you've seen?
Greg responds...
1. If it makes fans happy, I have no objection. And I say that being very aware of the fact that sometimes fans ship characters so hard that when the show doesn't go that direction, they get upset. That's a tad frustrating. But I can live with it, if they can.
2. Um. Probably Demona and Elisa. I don't know where the heck that one comes from.
Joshua Skaug writes...
Long time Gargoyles Fan, just started rewatching the series on Disney+
I was wondering where Elisa’s Cat, Cagney got its name?
Would she have named him (is it a him), after actor Jimmy Cagney, or more likely after fellow police-woman character, Chris Cagney, from Cagney and Lacey?
Greg responds...
A little of Column A. A little of Column B.
Kiddo writes...
Hey, thanks for hours of entertainment through your shows. I just recently finished watching the canon run of Gargoyles on DVD through the library (Me and a friend greatly enjoyed the journey, and had a lot of fun watching it!) after growing up on your other shows, like Young Justice and Spectacular Spider-Man. So, thank you, and as I’m new here, I’d figure I’d try and put a question that isn’t quite so... obvious.
Did Eliza’s palate change much after the Avalon World Tour?
Greg responds...
Um... sure.
Todd Jensen writes...
I decided to reread "Clan-Building" as well, after rewatching the first two seasons of "Gargoyles" on DVD, starting with Chapters One and Two ("The Journey)).
The "hunting" analogy continues even past "Hunter's Moon" with Vinnie stating that he hunted a gargoyle down, and Castaway mentioning it (both specifically use the word "hunted").
In my "review comments" on "Hunter's Moon", I noted how it ended, in its final scene at the castle, on what went well for the gargoyles (they're back in the castle, they've made peace with Xanatos, etc.), with their being revealed to the public not mentioned. "The Journey" opens with it being made clear that their problems aren't that over after all, with the public's alarm, the foundation of the Quarrymen, and even Brooklyn raising the question of whether Xanatos really has changed that much. I think his sardonic "Welcome home" establishes the "It's not so happily ever after, after all" tone - in contrast to the way Elisa said "Welcome home" at the very end of "Hunter's Moon".
Greg responds...
It was nice to finally be able to do my version of "The Journey" - as opposed to the reedited piece that was used in The Goliath Chronicles.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "Hunter's Moon" yesterday (Sunday) on DVD - all three parts.
I've mentioned before spotting a lot of mentions of hunting, usually applied to humans going after gargoyles with hostile intent, and it struck me that this made it appropriate that the Hunters would be the gargoyles' adversaries in the finale. (Well, the Disney Afternoon finale/Season Two finale.)
And it struck me that the Hunters were the most dangerous opponents that the gargoyles faced in modern times, judging by results. They blew up the clock tower, destroying the gargoyles' home, and then exposed them to the public. The former was partly undone by the gargoyles getting their old home (the castle) back by the end of the episode, but not the latter - now the gargoyles are facing an alarmed public (even though they're safe at the end - for the moment). None of the gargoyles' other adversaries in modern times have been able to inflict that much damage on them. To top it, you'd have to go back to 994 and the Wyvern Massacre.
A few things that struck me this time around:
Goliath and Elisa are actually openly speaking to each other and even sharing a brief embrace on board the passenger train, just after foiling the robbery; fortunately, the passengers apparently didn't notice that.
Hudson greets the returning gargoyles as "lads" - then quickly adding in "And lassie, of course", for Angela. It reminded me of his use of just "lads" for the younger gargoyles in "Possession" that I mentioned in my post on it - apparently he's getting more adjusted now to Angela's presence in the clan.
The trio's clash with Demona in Part One seems the last "trio action" in the series; they're increasingly split up (or else acting with the rest of the clan present) after this.
Lexington and Brooklyn's shared uneasy glances when they return to the clock tower with Goliath near the end of Part Two seemed all the stronger when I realized "the audience knows that Robyn and Jon survived Goliath's fight with them, but Lex and Brooklyn don't - from their perspective, Goliath had apparently killed those two."
Jon Canmore's cry about the gargoyles when he's facing Jason at the end, "They killed dad!", struck me as a sign of how (even before shooting Jason) he was losing it; it was Demona who killed Charles Canmore, none of the Manhattan clan were even present at the event, and Jon was there so he knows it.
Broadway shows how much his attitude towards reading has changed since the start of "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" when he's talking to Angela about how great the castle library is (and we'll see them there together in "The Journey").
This story really does seem like a good conclusion for the series in so many ways - the gargoyles are back in the castle again, their war with Xanatos is (seemingly) over, they'd defeated Demona's big scheme to wipe out humanity, Elisa finally admitted her feelings for Goliath and even kissed him. Except there's a big loose end with the gargoyles' existence being made public, and most of the New Yorkers aren't too happy about it. (Brooklyn's "And so it begins" remark does also support the feeling that the story could continue past this spot.) But it certainly makes a good season finale.
Oh, and I counted the number of "claw-mark transitions" in the entire two seasons during this review - 28 in all.
Greg responds...
We were pretty happy with it.
Todd Jensen writes...
I watched "Turf" on DVD yesterday as well, but don't have anything new to say about it, so my new thoughts on "The Reckoning", which I watched with "Possession" on DVD today.
In Act I, Hudson warns Angela that her mother "is capable of anything". Angela later uses those exact words when confronting Demona in Act III.
Elisa gets bitten by a mosquito while in the Labyrinth; I wonder if that was the moment when Sevarius and Thailog acquired her DNA for Delilah; it'd certainly be a "playing fair with the audience" moment.
While Demona professes outrage over Angela's claim to be her daughter, her eyes aren't glowing red - and later we learn that she'd known Angela to be her daughter all along. The "eyes not glowing red" part makes a good hint to the audience that she was feigning anger and disbelief.
Greg responds...
That mosquito is exactly when Elisa's DNA was taken for later use in creating Delilah.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "The Gathering" (both episodes) on DVD today. A few new things I noticed about it.
A minor detail, but which I find touching: when Renard learns about Anastasia's remarriage,, he sadly clasps her hand.
The letter X is prominent among the Xanatoses: Xanatos, FoX, and AleXander. And then I thought of LeXington, who isn't one of the family, but who's close to Alex, and who became Xanatos's secret successor in "Future Tense". (And there's that bit, also, in your "Gargoyles 2198" piece, about the Lexington-Xanatos Corporation.)
Goliath's homecoming makes a lovely contrast with "Future Tense", as he warmly embraces the overjoyed Brooklyn and Lexington (the two members of the clan who'd been bitter towards his late return in "Future Tense") and Hudson says "I knew you hadn't abandoned us." (While Broadway hugs Elisa, tying in with his being the closest to her among the trio, ever since "Deadly Force".)
One feature of Goliath's pondering the possibility that Avalon sent him to Manhattan to stop Oberon from taking Alex away; if his speculation was correct, that means that Avalon was, in a way, going against its lord and master. Though that made sense when I thought about it; without going too deeply into hypotheticals, I suspect that things would have not gone well for Avalon if Oberon *had* spirited Alex away (no way would his parents have accepted that), and Avalon would be sparing itself and its lord and master a lot of potential trouble in thwarting him.
You mentioned once that you wanted to have Puck break the fourth wall, but the rest of the production team objected to it. I noticed that he does come close, though, when he turns towards the camera while saying "I'm on a roll". (And when somebody *did* break the fourth wall, it was Brooklyn instead.)
At the very end, Broadway turns to stone shortly before the rest of the clan does.
Greg responds...
Interesting observations. Thanks for all these, Todd.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "Mark of the Panther" on DVD today.
I've mentioned before how I've noticed a strong "hunting" motif running through "Gargoyles" during my reviewing it; this episode included more of that theme, though, for a change, it didn't involve humans going after gargoyles. Instead, it was the Panther Queen and, later, Fara Maku, hunting for Anansi, and then Tea and the poachers hunting panthers.
Elisa lists the body parts of panthers that poachers are after as skin, teeth, and claws. When Diane Maza tells the story of the Panther Queen shortly afterwards, her description of the Panther Queen stresses those same three attributes (well, fur rather than skin, but it's close enough), but now focusing on their beauty, rather than the monetary worth that motivated the poachers. (And when Anansi turns the Panther Queen into a human, the story stresses the Queen's loss of those same attributes.)
Goliath's explanation to Diane, when they're trapped in the pit, that he can only glide, not fly, echoed (for me) his explanation to Elisa on the ledge back in "Awakening Part Three". Like mother, like daughter....
Greg responds...
Yep...
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "Sanctuary" on DVD today. New observations.
Elisa writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as serious as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still a bit unfortunate.
I was amused to note that Demona barely even registers Elisa's presence in the middle of her fight with Macbeth, even though Elisa's calling out to both of them - until just before Elisa shoots her. She does finally spot the detective and aim at her, but Elisa takes her down before she can do more than that. Apparently her feud with Macbeth tops even her hatred for Elisa.
I felt a sense of near-horror, though, as I noticed how Demona and Macbeth's fight was damaging the library, with several books apparently getting damaged or destroyed.
And the silhouette of a gargoyle against the moon in the newspaper photograph bears an uncanny similarity (obviously coincidental) to the Bat-Signal.
Greg responds...
Those typos drive me nuts.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "Monsters" on DVD today. (Appropriate timing, I thought, since November 30 is St. Andrew's Day, dedicated to the patron saint of Scotland - and on that day, I was watching Scottish gargoyles encountering Scotland's most famous monster.) A few fresh thoughts on it.
When Elisa describes herself to the man at the souvenir stall as "not really the adventuring type", I found myself thinking of her statement in "High Noon", "I'm no hero; I just do my job". Certainly, whatever her incliations, she's had plenty of adventures.
I wondered whether Elisa's remark about theme parks doing "robot Nessie-type" stunts five times a day was Disney poking a bit of fun at itself - we'd see something similar in "Bushido".
And when Elisa says at the end how some legends need to stay that way, she looks in Goliath's direction as she speaks, making me wonder if it was just the Loch Ness Monster she was talking about. Certainly Elisa's been zealous about preserving the gargoyles' secrecy - maybe too zealous, in light of "Revelations" and "Mark of the Panther".
Greg responds...
She wasn't just talking about Nessie.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched the "Avalon" triptych on DVD today. A few new observations.
The Magus's lyre in the "flashback on Avalon" scene looks a lot like Merlin's lyre in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Obviously not the same one, but evidently both wizards share a common taste in musical instruments.
Princess Katharine and the Magus's telling Elisa "Little is known of the Sleeping King" struck me as all the more appropriate since in 995, nearly all the major works on King Arthur had yet to be written (Geoffrey of Monmouth's "History of the Kings of Britain", the oldest extant start-to-finish account of Arthur's life, wouldn't be written for over a hundred years). There were one or two, like Nennius's "Historia Brittonum", but that was about it.
A detail that I hadn't spotted before: a couple of gargoyle-like sculptures were "guarding" the bridge leading to Arthur's resting-place within the Hollow Hill.
King Arthur and Goliath have both used a mace while fighting Macbeth (Goliath did so in "Enter Macbeth") - one of a few points in common they share (others are awakening in the modern world from a long enchanted sleep, and having scheming illegitimate sons).
The Archmage's boast that he could destroy Goliath with "just a word" struck me as apt, since all the "enhanced Archmage"'s spells were one-word ones ("Vessel", "Revert", "Ice", etc.).
It's difficult not to smile at Elisa's "Souvenirs" question after Season One of "Young Justice". Fortunately, she was asking it in a lighthearted tone.
Greg responds...
Certain elements run through my work, I suppose...
Anonymous writes...
This is less a question than a comment, since I know you won't give out spoilers. :)
I've noticed that a lot of writers, especially in TV shows, either can't or don't want to write established relationships - either the courtship is dragged out until the final episode, or the couple gets together mid-series only to fall into an endless cycle of break ups and make ups. And while Gargoyles is one of the few TV series that I think had legitimately good reasons both for the long courtship and for the breakup in the comics, which both made sense with the characters and were compatible with them having a long-term healthy relationship... I also really hope that this won't become a recurring phenomenon, and that their relationship will continue to progress, however slowly. While I know that no relationship lasts forever, if nothing else because no one lives forever, I really really hope that Elisa and Goliath will have many long years ahead of them to function as a healthy couple, and that we the audience will get to see at least some of it. *crosses fingers for Gargoyles coming back in some form*
Greg responds...
I don't disagree with you.
Anonymous writes...
1) What sort of hobbies does Elisa have outside of work?
2) Did she have any human friends prior to meeting the gargoyles?
Greg responds...
1. Cosplay?
2. Of course.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "The Cage" on DVD today (and "Protection" yesterday, but I had no new thoughts or observations on it).
I noted, this time around, Elisa's joke about webbed feet during the family dinner scene at the start, followed by Peter Maza's "and a great duck impersonation" line followed by a quacking sound, and wondered if that might have been intended as a tribute to the Disney Afternoon's "duck shows" - both "Duck Tales" and "Darkwing Duck".
Greg responds...
It's not NOT a tribute.
Todd Jensen writes...
I rewatched "Double Jeopardy" today - a few new thoughts.
Elisa's again driving along a lonely road by the coast, far from Manhattan, just as she'd done in the immediately preceding episode ("Revelations") - but this time, we know why she's out there (a warning about a power plant emergency - actually a hoax, courtesy of Thailog).
Broadway tells Elisa, as he and Lexington head off to Gen-U-Tech, "We're on the case". His way of phrasing it invokes again his interest in detective work (cf. "The Silver Falcon").
All the dates on Sevarius' video documentary about Thailog are written in the "British format" - i.e., "15 NOV", with the day first, then the month. Something you don't often see on American television.
Greg responds...
Dates are hard.
Todd Jensen writes...
New thoughts on "Re-Awakening", after my rewatch.
I don't know whether this was intentional or not, but when Goliath and Elisa were having their conversation about the shopkeeper and why he doesn't leave the neighborhood, I found myself thinking of "Othello"'s suggestion, in the flashback, of abandoning the castle and letting the Vikings have it, and Hudson's response. I don't know if you intended those moments to be thematically connected, but they did feel that way to me this time.
It still strikes me that the fact that the gargoyles' resolution to protect the city and its inhabitants comes at the end of the first season says a lot about how different "Gargoyles" was from most super-hero series; the gargoyles are able to have plenty of adventures and experiences - thirteen episodes' worth of them - before making that vow. The series was rooted in their being gargoyles - ancient "mythical" beings with their own culture and world-view - re-awakened in the modern world, trying to make sense of it - and often making mistakes in the course of their attempts - rather than just crime-fighters.
Greg responds...
That was all intentional.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched both "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Re-Awakening" today, as part of my "Gargoyles" 25th anniversary review. New thoughts on "Her Brother's Keeper" (ones that came to mind when I rewatched it).
Broadway's concerned remarks about Elisa near the beginning (including "If cops were meant to fly, they'd have wings") indicates that Elisa had shared with them how she was following Xanatos by helicopter before embarking on it.
Derek's remark to Diane that working for Xanatos "could be the start of a whole new career for me" feels all the truer in hindsight - though he obviously wasn't thinking in terms of running an underground sanctuary for Mutates and homeless people when he said it.
I spotted the clock's hands moving at one point in the episode; apparently Lexington had indeed gotten it working again.
Greg responds...
But was it telling the correct time?
Todd Jensen writes...
I rewatched "The Edge" today - appropriately, since today (October 30) is, according to some sources, Dostoyevsky's birthday, and Goliath was reading his work in the episode.
I spotted more "hunted like animals" remarks (I'm keeping close watch for those in the 25th anniversary review) from Xanatos during his conversation with Goliath at the castle. (I don't recall any of that imagery in "Deadly Force". I think that Macbeth addressed Goliath as "beastie" in "Enter Macbeth", but I'm not certain - if he did, I must have temporarily forgotten my resolve to keep track of that element.)
I also couldn't help thinking, this time around, how convenient for the series it was that Elisa only got a partner *after* the gargoyles moved out of the castle and into the clock tower.
Greg responds...
Yeah. It was too convenient, which is why we gave her Matt.
Todd Jensen writes...
Rewatched "Deadly Force" as part of my 25th anniversary "Gargoyles" commemmoration.
1. Broadway seems fairly familiar with Elisa's apartment, the way he glides over there just like that after the movie. (Though he acts as if he's seeing her family photograph for the first time.) I get the impression that Cagney's gotten used to him, judging from his response at the big gargoyle gliding off with his human being apparently bewilderment rather than alarm.
2. Dracon's cell phone looks big and bulky from a 2019 perspective - probably the one "dated" part of this episode.
Greg responds...
1. He is.
2. Yeah, the cellphones are the big element that puts the show in the 90s.
Todd Jensen writes...
To celebrate the 25th anniversary of "Gargoyles", I watched "Awakening" (all five episodes) on DVD yesterday, and thought I'd share a few things I hadn't noticed before (or hadn't noticed enough) that struck my fancy.
1. When Goliath sends the trio and Bronx to the rookery, Bronx looks ashamed of himself - in a way that reminds me of times when dogs I'd known looked guilty over something.
2. When Xanatos tells Owen "Make the offer now" at the ruins of Castle Wyvern, I suddenly wondered whom he bought Castle Wyvern from. I won't ask here - it's obviously a "No spoilers" answer - but I was struck by the fact that this was the first time I wondered that.
3. I spotted what looked like a "foliate head" (or "Green Man"-type head) carved over the archway the gargoyles are standing beneath when the Commandos showed up in the courtyard, and a couple of winged figures on one of the tapestries. (I'll have to check for other unusual and remarkable features of the castle in later episodes, as well.)
4. Many of the human characters repeatedly call the gargoyles "beasts", both in the medieval scenes and the modern (Princess Katharine's protest at allowing beasts in the dining hall, Mary calling the gargoyles beasts, Bruno asking "Where's the beast?" while pursuing Goliath and Elisa).
5. Goliath asks Elisa, when they first meet, "What were you doing in my castle?" Despite Xanatos having bought it, he clearly thinks of it as still his - as if laying pipe for the arc about the gargoyles having to leave the castle and Goliath resisting it.
Greg responds...
1. The dogs I've had get that shamed look based on my reprimanding tone more than based on what they've done. As opposed to the cats I've had (and have), who at best stare at me as if to ask, "Are you talking to me?"
2. An interesting question.
3. Art Direction was pretty awesome on the show.
4. All very intentional.
5. We tried to keep each character's POV clear.
Derek writes...
Am I missing anyone or adding someone incorrectly? So far Sevarius has the DNA of the following?
Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Broadway, Bronx, Lexington, Eliza, Hudson, Yama, Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Talon, Maggie, Fang, Claw, Wolf, Demona, Nessie, Deiliah (Mix)?
Greg responds...
It's been a while since I saw the episodes. I guess he has Delilah, but then if you're including her, he'd also have Thailog, Burbank, Hollywood, Brentwood and Malibu. I guess he probably has Maggie, Fang, Claw and Wolf. But then I imagine he has Erin, Benny, Thug and Tasha, too.
Rose writes...
Hi,
My last question was probably already ignored, but if not I apologize for it...after extensive digging through the archives I think it was answered.
But I’m pretty sure this was never addressed....You kind of seemed to suggest that Elisa fell for Goliath spiritually and physically earlier than he fell for her. How is it then that she never seemed to be jealous of Demona? At least she never showed herself to be. Like in vows...I know she didn’t know the details of what transpired there, but wasn’t she ever worried that Goliath May eventually succeed in bringing Demona to the light and reunite with his mate?
Or was her willful desire to avoid the topic of their romantic linking overpowering any other feelings of insecurity or jealousy she may have felt vis a vis Goliath? Or was her guarded nature so tight that these secret fears never showed on her?
I just wanted to also say thank you for bringing us a love story for the ages...I think Goliath and Elisa are the most heart wrenching couple to ever grace the world of fiction. Thinking about these two tears my heart up in the best way possible. Watching Elisa as a little girl made such a huge positive impact on the person I am today...I love her so much that I’m willing to relinquish the hold I wish I had on Goliath (if there’s a straight woman out there who wouldn’t melt all over this guy...I haven’t met her yet).
And I’m sure I’m not the only one. I think you may have saved hundreds, thousands of 90s young women from our lesser selves with this beautiful, positive role model. There hasn’t ever been another like her.
Greg responds...
Elisa recognized her feelings long before Goliath (at least in my mind), but she also refused to acknowledge those feelings as connecting to a real possibility of a relationship for way longer than Goliath. And she wanted the best for Goliath, so if Demona could be turned around (during this period) she logically felt that would be a good thing.
Having said that, I do think Elisa shows signs of jealousy throughout. Little things. Rewatch. I think you'll see them.
I'm glad you loved Elisa as much as we did/do.
Rose writes...
Hi Greg,
I searched the archives a little and I did not see this answered specifically...(if I’m wrong please link me)
When in the tv series did Goliath realize he had feelings for Elisa? I know he was always gradually falling for her (unbeknownst to him for not) since he first met her...but what do you think?
I always imagined it was well before he realized the physical connection in the mirror...maybe by deadly force when he realized he might lose her and lost his mind about Dracon.
Thanks for this amazing show and for your answer!
Greg responds...
I don't think he realized he had romantic feelings for her until "The Mirror".
Mara A. Cordova writes...
... Did Demona ever know that Broadway shot Elisa accidentally?
Greg responds...
Not that I know of.
Selena writes...
Hi Greg. I just wanted to tell you that I loved your story on the Gargoyles, especially the story between Elisa and Goliah (I have always loved the story of Beauty and the Beast). Probably they are not the first nor the last to ask you this question, but I hope with all my heart that sooner or later the stories, even comic books, continue. You had so many ideas that I wanted to see them realized. I hope a day not far away will happen ...
Greg responds...
Me too.
Matt B writes...
I was wondering about Jean Dewolff's change from captain to patrolman and Italian American (I think) to Native American. I like the changes but am curious about the thought process behind them.
Also, what people was Jean from?
Also, does she know Elisa Maza? I'm guessing that Native American NYC cops are a small sorority.
Also, Jean and a few other characters (EG Gwen, Captain Stacy) die in the comics. I won't ask names because of spoilers, but were you planning on some character deaths if the series had continued?
Thanks, and i hope you get to follow up on SSM and Gargoyles someday. I really mss those shows. At least YJ is coming back!
Greg responds...
1. We had long-term plans for Jean, which necessitated her starting as a patrolwoman.
2. We were looking to increase diversity in the show, and the name DeWolff suggested a nice fit with Native American.
3. Never worked it out. Guess I'd lean toward Inupiat and French Canadian/Cree (Metis) ancestry, which matches her voice actor, Irene Bedard. (Or so Wikipedia tells me.)
4. Let's assume that in the Gargoyles Meets The Spectacular Spider-Man Meets Young Justice Universe that they do.
5. No spoilers.
CJ writes...
Elisa has dressed up as both Belle and Jasmine for Halloween. Does that mean their respective movies exist in the Gargoyles universe as we perceive them, and if so, does that mean they cannot be real in said universe?
Greg responds...
Basically, yes.
Now, the legends those movies are based on is something else. All things are true. Few things are accurate.
Anonymous writes...
We know Elisa is a detective, but what section? I know there’s homicides, narcotics, cyber crime, cold cases, sexual cases, domestic and even organize crimes,etc. But in which department Elisa belongs?
Greg responds...
Hm. I thought of her as a precinct detective, handling whatever cases happened within her precinct, like the detectives of Barney Miller and Hill Street Blues. I might need to someday do some research on how the NYPD operates (or operated in the mid-nineties). If every detective specializes then it seems she's in organized crime.
EXALT writes...
I've recently rewatched Awakening, and the scene where Goliath tells Demona that she can't kill an enemy unless it is "in the heat of battle" sparked a question in me: as of Phoenix, which members of the Manhattan Clan have actually killed someone?
Greg responds...
Most have, in battle, in the tenth century. Angela hasn't. Egwardo hasn't. Nashville hasn't. Maybe Lex & Broadway haven't. But that seems unlikely/unrealistic.
Oh, and if you're counting her, Elisa hasn't.
Todd Jensen writes...
I thought you might be amused to learn that not long ago, the Titan Comics "Doctor Who" comics did a story where the Doctor (the Christopher Eccleston version) and his friends were tracking a living gargoyle (actually, a human who was turned permanently into a gargoyle - long story) through the woods at night, and encountered a young woman also searching for the gargoyle, who was wearing a red jacket, black t-shirt, and blue jeans. The jacket had a different design than Elisa's, but the overall look of her outfit was close enough to make me wonder if it was intended as a "Gargoyles" tribute. (Then again, Ellen Yin's similar outfit in "The Batman" turned out to be - apparently - a coincidence.) I hope it was intentional - meaning that someone working on that comic still remembered "Gargoyles" after all these years.
Greg responds...
That'd be nice. Also, the ninth doctor is my favorite.
Jean writes...
Hello Greg!
Quick question-Does Elisa have any martial arts training? (outside of self defense training from the Academy)
Thank You,
Jean
Greg responds...
Not particularly.
Jean writes...
Hello Mr. Weisman!
I, like many others on this website, am a HUGE fan of Gargoyles- caught me when I was a nine yr old and never let go. I've been binge watching the show recently, and a few questions came to mind. I searched the archives but didn't find any answers. I hope I'm staying within the guidelines. If I'm not, I sincerely apologize.
Without further ado, my questions are:
1.What sports does Elisa like? (outside of Football or Baseball that is- she briefly mentioned going to a Giants game at the end of "Awakening" pt 5, and you stated in the archives that she is a Mets fan.)
2. Is she a causal fan of sports, or a serious fan?
3. Are there any particular teams/players she likes? (outside of the Home team, that is)
Thank You!
Greg responds...
1. She likes football and baseball and basketball.
2. Casual.
3. She's a New Yorker. Take it from there.
GoliathFan223 writes...
Hello, Weisman. Me again. Hope you're doing well and all of your projects are successful.
I was re-watching Gargoyles again and I was watching the "Hunter's Moon" three-parter and I was curious about something about Jason Canmore:
I noticed something in Part Two, when Robyn is talking to Jason and John about Demona being able to walk around in daylight and how the siblings were debating about whether she'd "share this sorcery with the others," and Jason says, "we'd never know" if she had.
My question is, did he suspect (albeit fleetingly) that Elisa might be a gargoyle in disguise (who was able to use magic to shape-shift at will) thanks to Demona or was he just overthinking the discussion, on top of suspecting that she was hiding something in general? That's the vibe I was getting from the exchange, at least.
Thank you for your time and for answering my question (:
Greg responds...
I don't think he ever thought Elisa was a gargoyle.
GoliathFan223 writes...
Hello, Greg!It's me again. How are you? Well, I hope.
I was re-watching one of my favorite Gargoyles episodes, "Long Way to Morning" and I had a thought, particularly about Demona: How exactly did Demona know where Elisa's home was? I don't recall her knowing before this episode and i was curious. Was she somehow keeping tabs on her or spying?
Thank you for your time and answering my question. (:
Greg responds...
Maybe she checked the phone book.
I'm told it magically gives out addresses.
Domenic writes...
In Gargoyles, did you have any other Disney characters make any cameos?
Greg responds...
Um...
Well, there was Donald Duck. And of course, Elisa likes to dress as Disney Princess's on Halloween. She was Belle one year on the show, and Jasmine in the comics.
Nothing else pops to mind.
EXALT writes...
We know that, when Elisa dies, she's going to receive a Wind Ceremony, despite being human, because she's a full-fledged member of the clan. With that in mind...
1)Is she going to be the first human to receive a Wind Ceremony?
2)If, back in the middle ages, the Captain of the Guard had died without betraying the clan, would he have been given a Wind Ceremony?
3)If the Magus hadn't asked specifically to stay in the Hollow Hill, would he have been given a Wind Ceremony?
4)What about Katharine and Tom? When they die, are they going to receive Wind Ceremonies?
Greg responds...
1. That seems unlikely.
2. Odds are he would have received human burial.
3. Potentially.
4. No spoilers.
Shadow Wing writes...
Given that there was discussion on here (admittedly some time ago) about the "three" gesture Elisa made in Awakenings (if I recall correctly) being the American Sign Language sign for 3, I would like to ask - Does Elisa know American Sign Language?
Greg responds...
I don't know.
Black Nerd Problems interview
Find it here: http://blacknerdproblems.com/i-knew-it-was-something-special-an-exclusive-interview-with-gargoyles-creator-greg-weisman/
Bio writes...
Isn't Delilah the progeny of Demona and Elisa, genetically speaking?
Greg responds...
Basically, yes. Was that in question?
EXALT writes...
Have you already chosen dates for the following events in the Gargoyles Universe (and of course, if the answer is yes, I'm not asking you to reveal them)?
1)Goliath's death.
2)Elisa's death.
3)Demona's epiphany.
Greg responds...
For all three "events," I have not locked down specific dates, but I know generally where each takes place in the timeline.
DENVER COMIC CON REVISED & UPDATED #3
ONE MORE TIME!! This looks to be as final a revision as it's going to get for Denver Comic Con website (http://denvercomiccon.com/), before I head for the airport in a couple minutes. But, again, follow me on TWITTER @Greg_Weisman to stay up-to-the-minute on when and where I'll be.
DENVER COMIC CON LATEST PANEL, INTERVIEW & SIGNING SCHEDULE
FRIDAY, JUNE 13th, 2014
10:30am - 11:20am - ART OF THE PITCH in ROOM 110/112.
Victor Cook, Greg Guler and myself will be talking about pitching and selling animated telvision series to the Powers That Be.
11:30am - 12:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
I'll be signing my novel RAIN OF THE GHOSTS throughout the weekend for $10 cash. (That $10 includes the book, a personalized signature and copies of the original development art by Kuni Tomita for the television version of Rain that never was.) I also have a half-dozen copies of Young Justice teleplays, which I'll sell (and sign) for $20 cash. I'll also sign anything else you bring and put in front of me for free - especially if you buy my book. ;)
12:50pm - 1:20pm - INTERVIEW with Tim Beyers of MOTLEY FOOL in the MEDIA LOUNGE.
1:30pm - 2:20pm - CARTOON VOICES I in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
I'll be moderating this panel, which features Kevin Conroy, Jim Cummings, Michael Dorn, Jennifer Hale & Veronica Taylor.
3:30pm - 4:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:45pm - 5:35pm - YOUNG JUSTICE in the MINI-MAIN ROOM.
This one includes myself (writer-producer, voice actor) & Christopher Jones (YJ companion comic book artist).
5:35pm - 6:05pm - OPENING CEREMONIES in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
7:00pm - 10:00pm - FOUR COLOR MIXER at Breckinridge Brewery/Hilton Garden Inn Denver Downtown.
SATURDAY, JUNE 14th, 2014
9:35am - 10:00am - INTERVIEW with BEYOND THE TROPE at my table at Booth 122.
10:00am - 10:20am - INTERVIEW with WESTWORD at my table at Booth 122.
10:30am - 11:20am - RAIN OF THE GHOSTS in ROOM 201.
I'll be reading from and discussing my new novels, Rain of the Ghosts & Spirits of Ash and Foam.
11:45am - 12:35pm - ANIMATION PROFESSIONALS in ROOM 201
I'm moderating this panel, which features Chris Beaver, Victor Cook, Greg Guler, Derek Hunter, Christy Marx, & Jan Scott-Frasier.
3:00pm - 3:50pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:00pm - 4:50pm - GARGOYLES 20th ANNIVERSARY in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
This is a big one, with me (writer-producer-creator), Victor Cook (storyboard artist), Jim Cummings (voice of Dingo), Jonathan Frakes (voice of David Xanatos), Greg Guler (character designer), Salli Richardson-Whitfield (voice of Elisa Maza) and Marina Sirtis (voice of Demona) .
5:00pm - 6:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
SUNDAY, JUNE 15th, 2014
9:30am - 10:20am - INTERVIEW with EXAMINER.COM at my BOOTH 122.
10:30am - 11:20am - THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN in the MINI-MAIN ROOM.
Includes myself (writer-producer-voice actor), Victor Cook (director-producer), Jim Cummings (voice of Crusher Hogan) & Greg Guler (artist).
1:30pm - 2:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
2:45pm - 3:35pm - CARTOON VOICES II in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM.
Again, I'm moderating for Robert Axelrod, Kimberly Brooks, Jennifer Hale & April Stewart.
4:00pm - 5:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
In addition to the times listed above, I'll often just be hanging out at my table, so stop by. Attend a panel, buy a book, say hello!
DENVER COMIC CON REVISED & UPDATED #2
Okay, so I just took a look at the Denver Comic Con website (http://denvercomiccon.com/), and the schedule there doesn't always match up with the schedule I was sent. I'll make adjustments below, but what this really means is that I'm not 100% sure where I'll be at any given moment. I will be tweeting throughout the weekend though, so follow me @Greg_Weisman to stay up-to-the-minute on when and where I'll be.
DENVER COMIC CON LATEST PANEL, INTERVIEW & SIGNING SCHEDULE
FRIDAY, JUNE 13th, 2014
10:30am - 11:20am - RAIN OF THE GHOSTS in ROOM 201
I'll be reading from and discussing my new novels, Rain of the Ghosts & Spirits of Ash and Foam.
11:30am - 12:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
I'll be signing my novel RAIN OF THE GHOSTS throughout the weekend for $10 cash. (That $10 includes the book, a personalized signature and copies of the original development art by Kuni Tomita for the television version of Rain that never was.) I also have a half-dozen copies of Young Justice teleplays, which I'll sell (and sign) for $20 cash. I'll also sign anything else you bring and put in front of me for free - especially if you buy my book. ;)
12:50pm - 1:20pm - INTERVIEW with Tim Beyers of MOTLEY FOOL in the MEDIA LOUNGE
1:30pm - 2:20pm - CARTOON VOICES I in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM
I'll be moderating this panel, which features Kevin Conroy, Jim Cummings, Michael Dorn, Jennifer Hale & Veronica Taylor.
3:30pm - 4:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:45pm - 5:35pm - YOUNG JUSTICE in the MINI-MAIN ROOM
This one includes myself (writer-producer, voice actor) & Christopher Jones (YJ companion comic book artist).
7:00pm - 10:00pm - FOUR COLOR MIXER at Breckinridge Brewery/Hilton Garden Inn Denver Downtown
SATURDAY, JUNE 14th, 2014
9:35am - 10:00am - INTERVIEW with BEYOND THE TROPE at my table at Booth 122.
10:00am - 10:50am - INTERVIEW with WESTWORD at my table at Booth 122.
11:45am - 12:35pm - ANIMATION PROFESSIONALS in ROOM 201
I'm moderating this panel, which features Chris Beaver, Victor Cook, Greg Guler, Derek Hunter, Christy Marx, & Jan Scott-Frasier.
3:00pm - 3:50pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
4:00pm - 4:50pm - GARGOYLES 20th ANNIVERSARY in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM
This is a big one, with me (writer-producer-creator), Victor Cook (storyboard artist), Jim Cummings (voice of Dingo), Jonathan Frakes (voice of David Xanatos), Greg Guler (character designer), Salli Richardson-Whitfield (voice of Elisa Maza) and Marina Sirtis (voice of Demona) .
5:00pm - 6:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
SUNDAY, JUNE 15th, 2014
9:30am - 10:20am - INTERVIEW with EXAMINER.COM at my BOOTH 122.
10:30am - 11:20am - THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN in the MINI-MAIN ROOM
Includes myself (writer-producer-voice actor), Victor Cook (director-producer), Jim Cummings (voice of Crusher Hogan) & Greg Guler (artist).
1:30pm - 2:30pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
2:45pm - 3:35pm - CARTOON VOICES II in the MAIN EVENTS ROOM
Again, I'm moderating for Robert Axelrod, Kimberly Brooks, Jennifer Hale & April Stewart.
4:00pm - 5:00pm - SIGNING at my BOOTH 122 on the main floor.
In addition to the times listed above - and especially since I'm no longer 100% sure of my schedule - I'll often just be hanging out at my table, so stop by. Attend a panel, buy a book, say hello!
Up Next: DENVER COMIC CON
Frank Paur and I had a great time at the GARGOYLES 20th ANNIVERSARY Panel at Califur this past Sunday. Saw a couple old friends, and talked for TWO HOURS on the creation, development and production of Gargoyles.
Up next on the #GARGOYLES20 tour, stop #2: DENVER COMIC CON. http://denvercomiccon.com/
Here's my schedule (which pretty much includes all my favorite things):
FRIDAY, JUNE 13th, 2014
1:30pm - 2:20pm - CARTOON VOICES in the MAIN ROOM
I'll be moderating this panel, which features Michael Dorn, Kevin Conroy, Jim Cummings, Jennifer Hale & Veronica Taylor.
4:45pm - 5:35pm - YOUNG JUSTICE in the MINI-MAIN ROOM
This one includes myself (writer-producer, voice actor), Andrew Robinson (writer) & Christopher Jones (YJ companion comic book artist).
SATURDAY, JUNE 14th, 2014
11:00am - 11:50am - RAIN OF THE GHOSTS in ROOM 201
I'll be reading from and discussing my new novels, Rain of the Ghosts & Spirits of Ash and Foam.
12:15pm - 1:05pm - ANIMATION ARTISTS in ROOM 201
I'm moderating this panel, which features Jan Scott-Frasier, Derek Hunter, Christy Marx, Greg Guler, Victor Cook & Chris Beaver.
2:45pm - 3:35pm - GARGOYLES 20th ANNIVERSARY in the MAIN ROOM
This is a big one, with me (writer-producer-creator), Jonathan Frakes (voice of David Xanatos), Marina Sirtis (voice of Demona), Salli Richardson-Whitfield (voice of Elisa Maza), Jim Cummings (voice of Dingo), Greg Guler (character designer) and Victor Cook (storyboard artist).
SUNDAY, JUNE 15th, 2014
10:30am - 11:20am - THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN in the MINI-MAIN ROOM
Includes myself (writer-producer-voice actor), Victor Cook (director-producer), Jim Cummings (voice of Crusher Hogan), Greg Guler (artist) & Andrew Robinson (writer).
1:30pm - 2:20pm - CARTOON VOICES in the MAIN ROOM
Again, I'm moderating for Jennifer Hale, Robert Axelrod, Kimberly Brooks & April Stewart.
In addition, I'll be signing my novel RAIN OF THE GHOSTS at my booth throughout the weekend for $10 cash. (That $10 includes the book, a personalized signature and copies of the original development art by Kuni Tomita for the television version of Rain that never was.) I'll also sign anything else you bring and put in front of me for free.
So stop by. Attend a panel, buy a book, say hello!
Arlo writes...
Hi, Greg. Congratulations on your new book, and I hope all is going well!
In "Metamorphosis," Elisa clearly was deeply hurt by what Xanatos had done, and she promised him he was "going down, no matter what it takes."
Has she actually done anything to work towards this end, and is she still working towards it as of the last issue of the SLG comic? She clearly fought to get Derek back in "The Cage," but I don't think we've seen any indication that she's actually working towards bringing Xanatos down. Is she still working towards this goal, and why or why not?
Greg responds...
I think her resolve is dozy for the time being.
Charisma82 writes...
Greg Weisman: "I'd like to see a music video from Goliath's POV -- but featuring Elisa -- of "Amazing".
As per request:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6roY5udD8c&feature=c4-overview&list=UURD-80g-99JdhBskN6OXGGg
I hope it's the right "Amazing." Thank you for your time and the suggestion.
Greg responds...
WOW!
I'll be honest, I don't actually remember asking for this, so I'm not sure if it's the "Amazing" I was thinking of, but boy it's perfect, isn't it? Anyway, whether or not I was smart to suggest it, you did a fantastic job.
FireBlade writes...
Hi Greg!
I am a long time Gargoyles fan. I grew up with it actually. I've always loved it's depth, characters, story, and emotions. Honestly? Cartoons now-a-days don't even compare.
Anyway, I digress;
I was re-watching the show the other day and a question struck me... Can Goliath and Elisa have kids? I mean, Goliath is humanoid right? So, is it possible?
I hope it is because Goliath has gone through too much tragedy in his life to not be able to have a family with his soul mate I think.
That said, I haven't read the comic but I heard someone say that they break up in it... Is this true?? If it is, I just might cry....
Anyway, even though the series is long over, I still want to compliment you on such a fantastic masterpiece. It is a classic that will endure for a loooonnnggg time. :)
Thanks for your time! I know you are very busy.
Greg responds...
ASKED AND ANSWERED. Check the archives and/or ask the fans at http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/comment/index.php to point you in the right direction. And by all means, check out the trade paperbacks from SLG. I think you'll truly enjoy them.
Thanks for your kind words.
Dattaboy/JGL writes...
Hey Greg hope your novel is turning out well I look forward to reading it.Anyway, these questions are about the mutates, clones and Labyrinth Clan.
1). For the most part how do the majority of mutates and humans view the Gargoyle clones? Is it more of a blessing more bodies or a burden because of the lack development and free will?
2). By 2198 how do the mutate members and the gargoyle clone members view each other is it animosity different origins possibly beliefs, respectful because of shared location or have they established a unique culture that blends the various backgraounds of the groups making alot more differnt than your typical Garg clan?
3) You mention that by 2198 the two different clans in NY would have different priorties which is why they did not merge. Is there any animosity from the two clans because of different origins?
4). We know Talon and Maggie can have children but could different members of the mutate group have kids with another like Claw with Lisa despite being mixed with different species DNA?
5). How does the current Manhatten Clan view the Labyrinth "Clan"(not yet a Clan I know) Do they feel like they need to show the Clones and Mutates, Gargoyle customs or is it more like let them find their own way and we'll give advice as needed kind of deal?
Greg responds...
1. A mixed blessing, I guess.
2. SPOILER REQUEST.
3. I wouldn't say animosity. But they don't always see things eye to eye.
4. We don't know that. We know Maggie's pregnant. Anything beyond that is a SPOILER REQUEST. (Also, I'm not sure I understand your question... are you trying to mate off Claw with Elisa?)
5. More the latter.
And RAIN OF THE GHOSTS, BOOK TWO: SPIRITS OF ASH AND FOAM is going very well. In fact, I've finished writing it and sent it off to my editor at St. Martin's Press yesterday! Thanks for asking (and for giving me any excuse to pimp it!)
Merlin writes...
Since virtually every wardrobe change in a cartoon requires a new character model turn sheet, what did your character designers draw for scenes like when Fox was naked on the rooftop in Eye of the Beholder or Elisa was naked under a blanket in Heritage?
Greg responds...
It was a long time ago. But if you're asking if I have naked production pictures of them, I'm sure the answer is no.
Mac Ewing writes...
You have said before that humans and gargoyles are incapable of reproducing together, which I must add is a nice touch. Many xeno-based series throw biology to the wind.
But despite the fact that they couldn't be fertile, do you think that Goliath and Elisa ever got together, just for the heck of it?
Greg responds...
If you're asking if they are or will ever be intimate, I think either (a) I'll leave that to your imagination or (b) SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
Laura 'ad astra' Sack writes...
Regarding Stargate: The Hunted.
I would have watched it. (I think I tried the first ep of the cartoon that did get made. Whatever it was, it wasn't Stargate.)
You said "Besides, night looks cooler om action animation than day does." That reminded me how day shots in Gargoyles used to jump out due to their rarity. Though I must add that one of the best tv action sequences anywhere is Elisa evading and taking out the goon squad while running through Central Park in the morning. (I also thought of B:TAS, but who doesn't think of Dark Deco when they hear nighttime and animation?)
One thing intrigued me; you made the large alien (name escapes me at the moment) only 12- a member of a long lived, quick growing species, but still a child. I would think living thousands of years would lead to an extended childhood, not quick growth. What made you choose that? (If you don't recall, what are your current thoughts on it?)
Greg responds...
I'm a little lost. Are you referring to Ohnu? If so, I think the idea was to keep the cast young and inexperienced. And I liked the idea of a man-child.
Anonymous writes...
After "Revelations" do Elisa and the gargoyles now believe in the existence of the Illuminati?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Jessy writes...
Does Elisa know about Puck being Owen? She was asleep during the better part of the Gathering, and as far as I recall she wasn't in Possession at all. Was it considered relevent enough to tell her or did it slip their minds because it was none of their business?
Greg responds...
I'm sure she knows.
K. W. writes...
Hi Greg,
I had a quick question. The gargoyles in your gargoyles universe go to sleep during the day and have no control over it. I've learned that Elisa and Goliath become an official couple, but I am curious about the couple seeing much of each other.
If Goliath is "forced" to sleep during the day and Elisa works most nights. When does the couple get to spend time when they are not on duty protecting the world? Wouldn't this put a strain on the relationship emotionally?
I didn't see this question anywhere. Forgive me if it has been asked.
Greg responds...
Keep in mind, Elisa sleeps during the day too. Granted, she has more flexibility, but how is this really any different from any two people working the nightshift. For that matter, how is it that different from any two people who both have dayshift jobs. I'm not staying there's no stress or strain involved, only that it doesn't seem that atypical. There's plenty of stuff that DOES make Elisa and Goliath's relationship atypical, but this seems like the least of their worries.
I mean I would think it would be harder for a couple when one works dayshift and one works nightshift. Then it REALLY seems to me like they'd never see each other.
Sarah Anderson writes...
Hi Greg, thanks for taking the time to answer questions! :-)
In your gargs timeline, who dies first, Goliath or Elisa? And are they still a couple until then? Lastly, will you give a clue about what you had in mind for their deaths?
(Sounds macabre, but I was curious... ;-P)
Thanks!
Greg responds...
MASSIVE SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
Fe writes...
Mr. Weismen, I want to first thank you for creating quality programming that I grew up with and for creating Elisa, a strong female figure that matched my own background in terms of race.
1.Would you say that Aqualad is a younger non gargoyle version of Goliath in terms of personality?
2.You revealed Flash’s, Batman’s and Superman’s ages, would it be okay to ask how old is Aquaman and Mera?
Thank you for looking over my questions and I wish you all the luck with current and future projects.
Greg responds...
1. Uh... not really.
2. Aquaman is 29; Mera, 27.
lou-bert vs. q-bert writes...
Hi Greg, thank you for connecting to everyone. Fifteen years later, I'm sure questions about "The Kiss" never end, so who am I to part with tradition?
>It is my understanding that, for soap operas and/or ongoing series, actors do get sprung some story-surprises in their scripts. Although it was likely 1 to 2 pages of script, was "The Kiss" that kind of surprise for Salli Richardson and Keith David?
>Did they record their dialogue together? because it was extraordinarily acted.
Greg responds...
Honestly, I can't remember. Wish I could.
Dragomir writes...
Hi Greg, I realize that Demona is the villain and thus HAS to lose in the end, but I've always been confused by how well Elisa Maza is able to handle herself in battle against Demona. We know for a fact that gargoyles possess far more sheer brute strength and durability than a human being, we see Goliath and company throw gangsters and mercs and various other bad guys around like rag dolls all the time. Even the Pack, who were basically at peak athletic condition for humans before they underwent their "upgrades," were little match for the gargs. Now, I am aware that there are humans who can take gargs on one on one, but they are usually exceptional fighters like MacBeth who has centuries of experience and skill plus padded armor under his clothes, or have armored exo-suits like Xanatos or Dingo to even the odds. However, Elisa Maza possesses neither of these things, she's no wimp of course, she's a cop trained to handle New York's baddest of the bad, but she shouldn't be in the same league as Demona. I mean, her combat experience & skills comes from her police training and experience dealing with criminals, but Demona has over a thousand years of fighting experience at her disposal PLUS all the strength and durability that comes from being a gargoyle, and yet, when she and Maza fight it usually ends up with them wrestling on the ground & Maza fairing far better than she should against someone more skilled and powerful than she is (and equipped with claws that can rip through stone and steel). If Xanatos or Macbeth pulled something like that on Goliath he'd rip them to shreds & beat them senseless, yet Elisa gets away with it with Demona...I guess I just find it confusing and inconsistent with what we've seen in regards to how well the gargoyles handle their human foes. I know Demona has to lose in the end cuz she's the villain and that during some of their battles there were extenuating circumstances (like Demona being in human form or Maza in gargoyle form), but I still find it unrealistic & hard to believe Maza could fare so well against someone so much stronger & more experienced/skilled than she is...Even Goliath himself finds her to be a challenging opponent to face, we're talking about a lady who can lift boulders with her bare hands and chuck them at people, I can only imagine what she could do to Maza with strength like that.
So yeah, sorry for rambling, I really do love the Gargoyle series, but Elisa's ability to "manhandle" Demona despite the obvious strength and skill difference has always irked me. I mean, even when angered Demona tends to fight even harder than before, just like any other gargoyle, and usually that makes them a decisive edge unless they face someone like Oberon who can't be fazed by brute strength & ferocity.
Can you please explain to me how Maza's able to get away with fighting Demona one on one & hand to hand and get away from it in one piece?
P.S. thanks for your time & congrats on Young Justice, I'm totally loving that show thus far, Miss Martian rules! And Cheshire & the Witchboy were awesome villains, hope we see them again.
Greg responds...
Uh... when has human Elisa fought one-on-one with gargoyle Demona? I seriously can't think of one time this has occurred. I mean you can't count when both were gargoyles or both were humans -- at least not in terms of your above complaint/confusion. Are you sure you haven't just ... well... imagined this problem?
Richard Jackson writes...
A question about Elisa's shooting by Broadway.
It was confirmed on-screen in "Deadly Force" that only Broadway, Elisa and Goliath know that Broadway shot Elisa. Dracon may have overheard it, because he was being held upside down by Goliath when Broadway confessed. And perhaps the other members of the Manhattan Clan were told off-screen.
I wonder how the police investigation went on this shooting. In "Deadly Force", the gun was taken into evidence, but Chavez said that no conclusive prints could be found on the gun. She did affirm her conviction that Dracon did it and that no one who "hits" a cop would get away with it.
In "The Edge", Elisa tells Chavez that getting shot was an "accident". Was the shooting reclassified an accident off screen? What was Elisa's account of the shooting to the police? Were the police curious as to why someone would shoot Elisa in her apartment and then leave her outside the ER of a hospital?
Greg responds...
The shooting was reclassified as an accident with Elisa blaming herself. She offered no explanation for how she got to the hospital, and none could be found. Chavez, I think, found the story suspicious, which may have been one of the reasons she insisted that Elisa get a partner.
Sasha writes...
Dear Greg,
I have always wondered about what happened to the audio tape which Elisa recorded in Season 1 Episode 12, when Fox confessed to her all of Xanatos's schemes concerning Derek/Talon. Did Derek/Talon ever listen to it, either before or after his mutation? If not, what became of the tape?
Greg responds...
I'll leave your first question to audience interpretation -- and refrain from answering the second question for now.
Anonymous writes...
Hello Mr. Weisman,
I have a question regarding the relationship between Elisa and Goliath:
1. Did you always have in mind for them to be a couple or is this something that just came up as you kept writing?
2. Did you find it strange for a 7 ft mythological creature to fall in love with a human?
3. What does Goliath think of Elisa?
4. What does Elisa think of Goliath?
Greg responds...
1. Uh... pretty much always, if we're talking about Elisa and Goliath and not some of the development precursors.
2. Sure. But isn't love always strange? (I'm sensing a theme tonight.)
3. If that's not clear from the source materials, I have nothing to add.
4. Ditto.
John Derrick writes...
I hate to say it, but I was extremely disappointed in the Young Justice premiere. Don't get me wrong--the animation was gorgeous, the dialogue entertaining, the story intriguing. But the gender imbalance was a huge turn-off for me.
Why was it that the women of the Justice League were only shown in the last five minutes of a two-part pilot? Why did the male sidekicks get to go on a rebellious adventure and force the League to accept them as a team of their own, while the first girl is only added to "Young Justice" at the very end, introduced by her uncle and guardian like some sort of token?
I expect that the women will have a lot more to do in the episodes to come, but I still find it profoundly problematic to introduce the characters in such an unequal manner. I believe there are too many men in the world as it is who see women as mere supporting players in their stories. Why reinforce this stereotype for a whole new generation of superhero cartoon fans?
Greg responds...
It's a legitimate gripe. And I doubt my answer will satisfy you, but it came down to a couple factors that we at least found important: (1) practicality and to a lesser extent - but intertwined with - (2) tradition.
Let's start with practicality.
You asked why there were no female Leaguers until the end. But where would they have fit? There are no female Leaguers with traditional first generation sidekicks. So Batman, Green Arrow, Aquaman and Flash could not be replaced by Wonder Woman, Black Canary or Hawkwoman. That leaves the four Leaguers introduced at the Hall of Justice. I needed Martian Manhunter to be there to set up Miss Martian. I needed Red Tornado there to set up his interest in the teens. I needed Superman there to set up Superboy. That leaves only Zatara. He was certainly replaceable. But then I would have had to hire another voice actress to read ONE LINE. I couldn't afford to do that. We have budgets. (And you'll notice that Red Tornado never speaks in the episode. Couldn't afford giving him a line either. None of which had anything to do with gender.)
There was NEVER any intent to introduce Artemis this early in the season for story reasons. Wouldn't make sense for her character. And I think the reasons why will become clear as the season progresses.
As for Miss Martian, yes, in theory, we could have introduced her sooner. Manhunter COULD have brought her along at the beginning. But then I'd have had FOUR characters running around the first half hour and FIVE in the second. That steals screen time and characterization from everyone. I think the entire production would have been weaker for adding another character -- ANY other character (gender notwithstanding).
Of course, that begs the obvious question - why not ditch one of the boys in favor of her to create a little balance.
But it seemed to us that would create balance at a cost.
There are FOUR TRADITIONAL sidekicks: Robin, Speedy, Aqualad and Kid Flash. To leave one out seemed wrong to us. Which brings in the Tradition argument, which I'll admit is somewhat feeble, but as an old comic book geek, I'll also admit it matters to me and to everyone else here.
The very first Teen Titans story ever in Brave and the Bold featured only THREE heroes: Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash. Wonder Girl did not join until their second adventure. So we felt there was a precedent for beginning with Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash and saving the real introduction of Miss Martian (beyond hellos) for OUR second adventure.
For what it's worth, if you give the series another chance, starting with episode three (i.e. the one immediately following the pilot "movie"), I think you'll see that female characters including Miss Martian, Black Canary, Artemis, Wonder Woman and MANY others will be playing ESSENTIAL roles in the show as we progress. I think the balance - and then some - is absolutely present in the first season when viewed in its entirety.
Yes, the pilot was very boy-centric, but that's not the rubric for the series. Personally, I love writing female characters, and if you're at all familiar with my past work, you'll know I have a history of doing them justice. (At least, I think so.) Gargoyles, for example, is FULL of strong female characters, including Elisa, Demona, Angela, Fox, etc. WITCH was nearly ALL female leads. Even Spider-Man had a strong female supporting cast, in my opinion at least.
If we did "reinforce a stereotype" (which I think is overstating it) then perhaps we've lured in kids that we will reeducate over the course of the season - organically without forcing it.
So I'd beg a little patience, a little indulgence... maybe even a little trust that we'll do right by this issue.
But judge for yourself.
Blizzard Sprite writes...
Hello. I'm a first time poster on this site, though I've been browsing it for months, reading the archives so I don't ask an already answered question. I had seen sporadic episodes of Gargoyles when I was much younger, and so I never got to enjoy the benefits of the continuing and developing storylines. It wasn't until I actually watched the entire Gargoyle series over the summer on DVR on Disney that I got finally understood my sister's pure delight in the fantastic franchise. When looking for more information on Gargoyles, I came across this place. My question really pertains to characterization of a few characters, though I’ll submit the other questions separately so this isn’t constrewed as posting one question with separate topics.
One aspect of the Gargoyles series that really stands out is the diversity of the characters in terms of ethnicity. One of the main characters, Eliza, is of African American and Native American descent. I think that was one of the factors that made the series so good. The show was definitely progressive in that aspect.
1. I was wondering if there were any challenges in pitching a show whose main human character was of color?
2. Were there certain things that you weren’t allowed to do, or topics that were generally avoided, such as active discrimination and racism against Eliza or any of the other characters of color on the show?
3. Was there any doubt amongst yourself or perhaps the channel executives that Caucasian viewers would be unable to relate to a protagonist of color?
I understand the question might come off as offensive, but I do ask out of genuine interest.
Thank you for your time, Mr. Weisman.
Greg responds...
1. Nope. No problem. When we pitched the series, Elisa was Elisa Chavez and Hispanic. Then we cast Salli Richardson and altered her ethnicity to match Salli's. But there were never any challenges about either Elisa Chavez or Elisa Maza.
2. Nope. Though we preferred to address those things metaphorically, i.e. from the Gargoyles/Humans perspective, as opposed to Black/White or whatever.
3. Nope. Never crossed my mind.
Charisma82 writes...
Did Matt ever tell Elisa that he was a member of the Illuminate? I ask because in the episode Revelations Matt says that it didn’t pay to keep Elisa in the dark about things (speaking about the incident with the Dracons in The Silver Falcon). After going on and on about how they should trust each other in the episode Revelations, it would seem contradictory of what Matt had just been through to not tell Elisa. But then, maybe he has his reasons to keep it a secret. Care to shed some light on the subject?
Thank you for your time and all that you do,
-Charisma82
Greg responds...
I do not care to shed light on the subject.
Purplegoldfish writes...
Hi Greg, this is a rather silly question...
I was watching the "Avalon" trilogy the other day, and it came to the part where King Arthur, Elisa, and the Magus arrived at Oberon's Palace after Arthur is awakened. Elisa introduces Arthur to Goliath and the others, and Arthur comments that he needs someone to tell him "what is going on".
So, here's the thing...I find it hard to believe that neither Elisa nor the Magus gave Arthur any background info on the walk back from the Hollow Hill. Were they talking at all? ( I know if I were personally taking a hike with King Arthur, I would be embarassed to say anything dumb and would just cast sidelong glances at him awkwardly lol).
Greg responds...
I imagine Arthur was largely still in recovery mode from a LONG sleep.
There may have also been some delaying tactics on the part of Elisa and the Magus as they struggled to figure out exactly how to explain everything.
Mostly, my answer is "Use your imagination!" ;)
Algernon writes...
Hey again Greg,
This question kinda came to me out of nowhere earlier and I tried searching the archives to see if it had already been touched on. To my suprise it doesn't seem to have come up so I'll ask it here. Did Elisa ever have a partner before Matt and if so, whatever happened to him/her?
Greg responds...
I'm sure she had at least a couple of partners over the years. But she was definitely a solo act when we first met her.
Elisa's backstory is definitely worth exploring, but I'm not going to do it here at Ask Greg.
Night Angel writes...
Hi Greg I'm sure you've heard this plenty of times but I am a huge fan of the gargoyles!! One day I'm hoping to become a film editor in the future, maybe even own my own movie set! So if your ever looking for an editor sometime in the future look me up, I would love to work with you! Also I been searching and I wasn't able to find this question so I hope you haven't been asked this yet. But I've always wondered I know it obvious that Elisa and Goliath will end up being together some how, but how does Angela feel about Elisa as possibly becoming a future step mom? Would she see her in that way?
Greg responds...
I have answered this before, so you might check the archives for more detail, but basically Angela views Elisa as an older sister. That wouldn't change. But if you've read the comics, you know Angela ALREADY considers Elisa to be Goliath's mate (more or less).
Kat writes...
Hey greg, what race is Elisa's family? I mean seriously, this is bothering me in the worse way. Her mother seems..black, her brother is definitely black, her father is Native American(?), and Elisa herself seems Hispanic! What's going on here? Their last name is 'Maza', and that sounds awfully Hispanic, but I just don't know....
care to shine some light?
Greg responds...
Elisa's mother Diane is African-American (which most likely means she has some Caucasian in her as well).
Her father Peter is Native American.
She is, therefore, a mix of all of the above.
She's not Hispanic per se, and the name Maza is Native American. It may not be from the correct tribe, but it is at least Native American.
Pixie writes...
All too often in cartoons (specifically nowadays) female characters fall into the role of giggling love interest, counterpart to a male character to eliminate homosexual themes or are just there to fill a demographic. Writers don't seem to know what to do with them after that.
That is why I would like to sincerely thank you for your part in fostering strong female characters like Elisa, Demona and Fox.
Also, what influenced you to write those characters the way you did? Did you have specific females from your past in mind or did you choose character traits from literature and sort of mesh them for a well rounded feel?
Thank you.
Greg responds...
I honestly don't know. I've always liked writing female characters. Two of my first (unfortunately unpublished) projects for DC Comics were Black Canary and Supergirl.
I just try to write honestly for them -- removing as many of my biases as possible -- just as I would for any male character. And the result -- for better or for worse -- is what you have seen...
TZ writes...
Another question...
When Elisa told (or admitted, however you want to look at it) Angela that it was true that Demona was her mother at the end of Sanctuary, was Goliath angry with her? Did they discuss it at all later or did he just let it go? Was he actually relieved to not have to be the one to tell Angela?
Greg responds...
I'm sure he was angry, but she probably convinced him of the obvious: (a) it was obvious and (b) it would have come out eventually and it was better coming from them then from Demona herself. Goliath would have grumbled at first, but known she was right.
TZ writes...
Tana writes...
You Asked:
"Does anyone know if "Maza" means "iron" in any Native American language or dialect?"
According to my book of names (it's got like 20,000 names and their meanings, which is totally cool, especially the Athurian names) Maza blaska, which is a Dakota name means "flat iron." So if it's one of those languages where the adjective comes after the subject, then Maza does infact mean Iron in Dakota. Which interestingly enough adds more irony since Dakota was an early choice for Demona's name. ^_^
And you know that J.R.R. Tolkien claimed that all of his novels were fact...you seen to have the same symptom with the Gargoyles.
Greg responds...
I'm not claiming they're fact so much as acknowledging that sometimes storytelling on this show just seems to click with history, existing legend and with dramatic necessity. It's a rare feeling, and I'm humbled by it. All I'm saying is it sometimes feels like the stories are true somehow somewhere, and all I'm doing is (imperfectly) tapping into them.
But I'm not actually delusional.
Ok, this is TZ now......
I was looking over the archives and was simply amazed by this response of yours, Greg. I have always felt that art (in all forms, from literature to sculptures to music) is discovered, not created. I subscribe to that theory because there are such famous examples of great work that endure for years, sometimes even centuries. Why would something like Michelangelo's David or Beethoven's 9th remain so popular through the ages? I think it's because those pieces already existed and were "discovered" by those artists, because certain works like theirs touch us so deeply. When one of us "finds" that piece of art, and shares it, it seems to strike something in all of us. I think creativity is God's alone, but I think He gives some of us a gift to find or tap into (as you've put it) something He's already created that reveals a great truth or lesson or feeling. Anyway, just a ramble of mine to share based on something I was amazed to see here. I'm not sure if I got my point across to others (I found it really hard to put this into words) but I think you get it. Thanks for "discovering" more great art for us all!
Greg responds...
You're welcome. Glad you get what I'm getting at, more or less.
Stanley dean cowens writes...
Pardon me if this question has been asked before. I've checked the archives and haven't seen it asked,but I could have missed it due to their being a lot of material to go over. In a Long Way To Morning" Demona attacks Elisa in her apartment If I remember correctly. I was wondering how she knew were Elisa lived? If she found out that she was still alive in city of stone why she didn't try to attack her again at her apartment or would you have had her try to assault her again at her apartment,but never got the chance because of what happened with season 3?
Greg responds...
Finding out where someone lives isn't really that difficult. In fact, it's so easy, I'm not that interested in how Demona found out.
As for why she didn't take further advantage of the info, there are a number of reasons, including other priorities, the fact that it didn't work the first time and... well, I'll stop there.
TZ writes...
I was wondering something, and I know you don't like hypotheticals, but I wondered if you gave this any thought: Had Goliath and Demona stayed together in the 20th century, would he have still fallen in love with Elisa? Or would his love for Demona overshadow anything he could have felt for Elisa? I ask this because I wonder if Goliath and Elisa are a meant-to-be kind of thing (in your Gargs universe), and their love was inevitible, or was it only relative to Goliath not having someone (i.e. Demona)? Here's another way of looking at it as well: would he have fallen in love with someone else had he not met Elisa and things still went bad between him and Demona? Thanks for your time, and can't wait to hear your thoughts on the matter...I'm kinda hoping for a rant! :D But I totally understand if this is too hypothetical...I guess I just wondered if you ever thought about it. Thanks a lot!
Greg responds...
I don't know about "meant to be" but I don't think it was inevitable that Goliath would fall in love with SOMEBODY given the deterioration of his relationship with Demona. Gargoyles mate for life, and Goliath's love for Elisa is a rare exception. I do think of it as something special. Not simply a result of her filling a slot. As for your initial question, it's largely too broad a hypothetical for me. But if Goliath and Demona were happy, and she wasn't trying to kill the human race, then no, I doubt Goliath would have ended up with Elisa.
taylor writes...
Is golaith and ilsisa ever goig to be together.
Greg responds...
Aren't they now?
Random Fan writes...
I'm realy nervous to ask you this because I realy dont like showing my perverse side to people I respect, but I've already asked one perverse question so I might as well ask another, even if this one is more blunt then the other.
Is Elisa a virgin?
There I asked it!
Greg responds...
No.
Random Fan writes...
Sorry for asking so many questions. I hope you've at least found them interesting. Any way, on to the next one I want to ask you. When Grandmother healed Elisa was that realy just the plants she used that did the trick or was it a little magical intervention supplied by a loophole of some sort?
Greg responds...
I think the former.
Laura 'ad astra' Sack writes...
One last question before bed....
From what little we've seen, it seems that Brooklyn and Katana are parents, not just rookery parents. (All those years with just each other would make it seem inevitable. There are no rookery siblings or other parents.) You wrote that Broadway and Angela ~choose~ to raise their children in the gargoyle style. So...
1. Are there currently any clans who have adopted human parenting, like they adopted human naming? Will there be by the future series?
2. Even those choosing to raise children collectively, are their strong human influences to that thought? (For instance, noting a rookery child looks like you.)
3. Am I correct in my assumption that Brooklyn and Katana are more like human parents in that respect?
4. It has been strongly implied that Elisa and Goliath will in some way adopt. Should they raise a child, would it be as individual or collective parents?
More later, (when I can hopefully decipher my handwriting).
Greg responds...
1. We'll have to wait and see.
2. See above.
3. See above.
4. See above.
Aeschylus writes...
Greg,
I always enjoyed the relationship of MacBeth and Demona on the show for its intensity and sorrow, as well as Xanatos and Fox with their unique understanding of companionship and love. And it makes me think...
With all the love triangles, the magical bonds, the promises, oaths, or senses of duty to consider, which relationship between any set characters of the series were you most passionate about writing and why? What do you think drove that relationship? And do you think it is the simplicity or the strife of that Character Relationship that makes it more appealing to you as a writer and does that opinion change as a viewer?
Greg responds...
I suppose the top relationship in my mind is probably Goliath-Elisa, but truly I'm interested in all of them. And a lot. They're all fascinating to me, for a variety of reasons. Basically, I don't have a standard answer to your questions.
TK writes...
Dear Mr. Weisman,
After Goliath falls in love with Elisa, would her menstrual cycles have any biological effect on him? Yes, I know...that's a very ODD question, to say the least. Thank you, regardless.
Greg responds...
Why would it?
Gargoyle Fan writes...
in Goliath and Elisa's relationship can Hummans mate with Gargoyles.has it done so in the past?
Greg responds...
It depends what you mean by mate. Check the archives for a fuller answer.
Masterdramon writes...
Gargoyles and Politics
I know that you generally like to keep politics out of this site, which is why I hope that this question isn't too out-of-line. All the same, I'm very interested in the role that politics plays in the "Gargoyles" universe.
What, generally, are Elisa's political views? Does she belong to a particular political party? And does she discuss politics with the Manhattan Clan at all?
For that matter, how politically literate are the various members of the Manhattan Clan, particularly Goliath and Lexington? Do they read any political texts? For that matter, does Hudson ever catch "60 Minutes" or any similar shows on television? How much do Elisa's political views (assuming that she shares them with the Clan at all) color their political viewpoints?
I'd also be greatly interested in any information you would be willing to share regarding the politics of other human characters in the series, most particularly Xanatos, Fox, Matt, Renard, and especially Macbeth. For that matter, what does Demona think of human politics (I expect that I can guess the answer to this one, but still)? :)
If you can't tell, this is coming from a prospective Politics major who to some degree or another views all things through a political lens. If you wish to leave these things up to the viewer then I would completely understand, but any information at all would be tremendously appreciated.
Thank you very much for your time, and I eagerly await the widespread release of the two remaining Trade Paperbacks. I've been trying to spread word of them (and of the DVDs) in the Comments section of Gargoyles-related YouTube videos; every little bit helps, I hope.
Greg responds...
Based purely on stereotypes of ethnicity and labor and location, I'd guess Elisa's a democrat.
I don't think politics is something that would attract Lex's attention much. I would think that Hudson, who prefers Celebrity Hockey to 60 Minutes, would feel lost rather quickly in political discussions. Goliath is all about the classics. I don't think Elisa's proselytizing much.
Xanatos seems like a likely Republican. At least fiscally. (Don't really see him or Fox as social conservatives.) Matt must be a Dem. Renard is probably a Republican. Macbeth... I don't think he's an American citizen. Demona... come on.
Geoff writes...
Is Elisa's hair really blue?
Greg responds...
No. It's black. See the archives for a more detailed explanation of why in cartoons and comics we use blue highlights for black hair.
Anonymous writes...
You stated that, when in response to Elisa and Goliath having kids, "Elisa could never be pregnant with Goliath's child without assistance from science or magic. I've already stated that I don't see them going that way."
I was wondering, what makes you think Elisa wouldn't want to use magic or science to carry Goliath's child?
Elisa seemed happy and esily adjusted to her as a gargoyle during "The Mirror". She even hinted this at the ending of the very episode, thus you can see my confusion.
Greg responds...
I don't think that's what she was hinting.
STEPHANIE writes...
MI PREGUNTA ES LA SIGUENTE: HUBIERA SIDO POSIBLE QUE GOLIATH SE TRANSFORMARA EN HUMANO PARA ASI CASARSE CON ELISA Y ASI HACERSE REALIDAD SU SUEÃ'O COMO EN EL CAPITULO "PODRIA SER REALIDAD"? GRACIAS
Greg responds...
My high school Spanish is pretty rusty...
"My question is the [?]: [??] posible that Goliath will be transformed to human for [??] with Elisa and [??] reality... ugh, I give up.
I'm afraid I can't be sure enough of your question to answer it well...
K writes...
Dear Greg,
I was reading through the archives just a moment ago, when a question occured to me about Demona and her actions during "The Reckoning." You stated that the reason Thailog did not clone Angela was that he did not have the opportunity to get her DNA at that point because Demona controlled the release of the mosquito that took the blood samples and when Angela was around, she just didn't release it. But she DID release it when Elisa was around (hence Delilah). My question is: Why did Demona, who despises Elisa, want to steal her DNA and clone her? My understanding is that she didn't know Thailog was creating a female replacement for herself, but was cloning Elisa or making a hybrid human-gargoyle part of the plan Thailog and Demona hatched together? If cloning Elisa was part of their plan, what was the purpose of it? What justification did Thailog give Demona to convince her to capture Elisa’s DNA? If cloning her were not part of their plan, why would Demona snatch a blood sample from Elisa?
Greg responds...
Demona controlled the release, but not who the mosquito stung. She released a mosquito once when Elisa AND a few gargoyles were present. She didn't anticipate that Elisa would get bit, nor what Thailog and Sevarius would do with the DNA.
stanley dean cowens writes...
I reading a question someone asked you about if demona and goliath would ever be a couple again and you said no. I was some what unhappy about that development as I was always had hope they would be a couple again at some point. I also find Elisa to be a some what uninteresting character to be honest compared with demona. I know many shows will take into consideration input from the fanbase and bring certain characters back to life,give popular characters with a small amount of screen time more time and so one. I was wondering if you basically have a vision set in stone for your characters or do you ever make any changes in gargoyles or any other show based on fan feed back? I hope this questions does not violate your rules for answering questions,but I was really wondering about what level you take fan input into consideration regarding existing characters and events? Great show and keep up the good work. I'm kind of burnt out on spiderman to be honest,but now that I know you're involved in it I guess I'll have to buy the box sets and check it out.
Greg responds...
Hmmm... I really don't change stories based on fan desires. First off, fans don't all agree on what they want (for example a lot of folks think Elisa is great), and sometimes (like Demona getting back together with Goliath) they want things that just don't make any story sense and would be bad for the property.
On the other hand, I do respond to what the fans respond to. Brooklyn's popularity was probably one of the things that lead me to the creation of TimeDancer.
G2009 Radio Play
G2009 Radio Play - Act Three
672. NARRATOR
Act Three.
673. DEMONA
Norman Osborn was a fool. So obsessed with the power of science, he kept the Crown of Thorns in this vault as if it was just another souvenir â€" albeit an expensive one â€" to hang upon his wall. But with the Crown and the Spear of Destiny together, I now have the power to force all of humanity to its knees.
674. GOLIATH
These are Christian icons, Demona. Not every human being is a Christian.
675. DEMONA
Not every human being speaks Latin, but that didn’t stop me from using a Latin spell to turn a city-full of humans to stone. The magic I wield is potent beyond measure. Mine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory. No human may resist. No human will be spared. None will be spared who oppose me. Just look at this fool…
676. GOLIATH
Her name is Obsidiana.
677. DEMONA
Of course it is. For she wears the mystic Obsidian pendant fashioned by human sorcerers. Even that is enough to put her in my thrall. She has relinquished her gargoyle birthright.
678. GOLIATH
I have relinquished nothing.
679. NARRATOR
Demona waves the Spear of Destiny, and Electro rises and blasts Goliath back into the wall.
680. GOLIATH
<impact>
681. DEMONA
Yes, I’m surprised you’re unaffected… since you reek of humanity. The stink of your human whore is in your hair, on your lips, everywhere. And nothing in this world will give me more pleasure, Goliath, than watching your detective on her knees to me, as she draws her service revolver and thanks me with tears of joy in her eyes… before gratefully blowing out her own brains.
682. GOLIATH
(coldly furious)
That will never be.
683. DEMONA
No? My power expands with every second. I doubt she’s far away.
684. GOLIATH
You will not harm Elisa.
685. NARRATOR
Goliath advances on Demona. Electro blasts away, but Goliath will not be stopped…
686. DEMONA
No one ever said you weren’t persistent, Goliath. But what do you hope to gain?
687. GOLIATH
(through gritted teeth)
I will turn these forces back upon you.
688. DEMONA
Impossible. I am the last true gargoyle left on this world. The Crown’s magicks cannot touch me.
689. GOLIATH
So you believe. But I am not the only one who reeks of humanity. Am I… Dominique?!
690. NARRATOR
Goliath grasps the crown. The thorns bite into his hands, drawing blood. They struggle for control of the immense power…
691. GOLIATH, DEMONA
<roaring to the heavens>
692. SPIDER-MAN
<moan>
693. NARRATOR
Goliath’s intervention â€" and his complete immunity to the Crown’s effects â€" creates the smallest of fluctuation in Demona’s control. In a haze, Spider-Man lifts his arm…
694. SPIDER-MAN
Thwip.
695. NARRATOR
He shoots off a web, yanking the bloody crown from Demona’s head.
696. DEMONA
Noooooo!!!!
697. NARRATOR
There is a massive explosion of mystic energy and light! Demona, Goliath and Electro collapse.
698. GOLIATH
<moan>
699. SPIDER-MAN
Goliath…
700. GOLIATH
The Spear… the Crown…
701. SPIDER-MAN
Gone. I think they… blew up. Calypso’s gone too. But I’m betting that’s just a talent of hers. And I’d guess she’s taken Kraven and the pussycat with her.
702. DEMONA
<unconscious moan>
703. SPIDER-MAN
But the Big Bad’s still here…
704. GOLIATH
(sadly)
Leaving behind, as always, nothing but a handful of thorns…
Goliath, Spider-Man and Demona sit. Jonah, Elisa, Matt and George STAND.
705. NARRATOR
While Goliath helps Obsidiana, Spidey webs up Demona, Electro and Ock. In the outer vault, Zafiro and the Trio recover, finding only an unconscious and de-venomed Eddie Brock. Outside, the bad guys have all been beaten. Goblin and Vulture, their tech badly damaged, barely manage to fly away. Carnage and Jupiter are once again Cletus and John.
706. JONAH
I’m here, Johnny. Your old Pop’s here…
707. ELISA
Matt…
708. MATT
Call an ambulance, Elisa. Old Man Dracon said something about seeing a light. Then he collapsed. A stroke or something. I’ve been giving him C.P.R.
709. ELISA
Matt… Matt! You can stop. Stop. He’s gone.
710. GEORGE
You’re gargoyles are flying off, Detective.
711. MATT
(breathing hard)
Really? Not sure I see ‘em myself. But is that Spidey web-slinging away?
712. GEORGE
You think? I must have missed him?
Margot STANDS.
713. MARGOT
Are you all blind?! They’re right over there!
714. GEORGE, MATT, ELISA (UNISON)
Oh, give it a rest, Margot…
Elisa, Matt, George, Margot and Jonah sit. Peter, May, Harry and Gwen STAND.
715. NARRATOR
Back at the bus…
716. PETER
I’m back. And not a single decent picture to show for my efforts.
717. MAY
Well, you tried your best, Peter. I’m sure Mr. Jameson will appreciate that.
718. PETER
Oh, yeah. He’s a sweetheart that way.
719. NARRATOR
Emily Osborn watches as her son finally emerges from the bathroom.
720. GWEN
Harry?
721. HARRY
Hey, Gwen. I feel much better.
Harry, Gwen, Peter and May sit. Jonah and Robbie STAND.
722. NARRATOR
Later that night, at The Bugle…
723. JONAH
Whaddayou mean I can’t publish it?! How else can I make them all pay for what they did to Johnny!
724. ROBBIE
You can’t publish because the authorities refuse to comment. We have no pictures or statements to corroborate a story that includes gargoyles, a dead Green Goblin and everything except the kitchen sink. No one will believe it. I was there, and I don’t believe it! Print this, Jonah, and The Bugle becomes the next Daily Tattler.
725. JONAH
Ms. Brant, call the bomb squad. BECAUSE I’M ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!
Jonah and Robbie sit. Gwen, Peter, Kong, Curt, Harry, EMILY OSBORN and Mary Jane STAND.
726. NARRATOR
Later still, aboard OsCorp’s private jet en route to Miami…
727. GWEN
I still can’t believe we ran into you in the airport parking lot, Doctor Connors.
728. PETER
Yeah, and we’re so sorry you got mugged.
729. KONG
Dude, they took your shoes?! That’s hilarious! <laughs>
730. CURT
Yes, well, I just really appreciate the ride back to Florida…
731. HARRY
Anytime, Doctor C. Anytime.
732. EMILY
Harry, could I have a moment… in your father’s office?
733. HARRY
Uh, sure, Mom.
Curt, Kong and Gwen sit.
734. MARY JANE
Pete, help.
735. PETER
What’s wrong?
736. MARY JANE
Tiny. Cute enough, but it’s like talking to a tree stump.
737. PETER
Tried to warn you.
738. MARY JANE
Just say we’ll spend the week as a threesome, okay, Tiger.
739. PETER
Sure!
740. MARY JANE
Not that kind of threesome.
Mary Jane and Peter sit.
741. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, Harry follows his mother Emily into the jet’s private office.
742. EMILY
I know you were playing at being the Goblin, Harry.
743. HARRY
What?! Mom, that’s crazy! I was in the bathroom…
744. EMILY
Don’t lie to me, baby. You hired the worst chauffer in the city to delay our progress. You had a secret hatch installed in the bus bathroom, so you could slip in and out undetected. And you left a pre-recorded “vomit tape†with voice recognition software. All very impressive for a sixteen-year-old. But you need to understand… the Green Goblin is not what your father wanted for you.
745. HARRY
I have no idea what Dad wanted for me…
746. EMILY
Then let him tell you…
747. NARRATOR
She slips a DVD into the computer and Norman Osborn appears on screen…
NORMAN OSBORN STANDS.
748. NORMAN
Harry, my son. If you are watching this, then I am dead. And I have instructions…
Norman, Emily and Harry sit. Big Man, Blackie and SHARI STAND.
749. NARRATOR
Meanwhile at the Big Man’s office, he and Blackie Gaxton are visited by Shari, a young woman wearing a pendant depicting an eye atop a pyramid…
750. BIG MAN
Thirty-six.
751. BLACKIE
Thirty-five.
752. SHARI
Nine. Any problems?
753. BIG MAN
Not particularly. Ms. Destine was ready to believe I could find Dracon and the others useful.
754. BLACKIE
And that faux Goblin was happy to believe I’d been fooled into thinking he was the real thing.
755. NARRATOR
Blackie removes his false face, revealing that he is actually the Chameleon in disguise.
756. CHAMELEON
Just as he was happy to believe I was the real Blackie Gaxton. But I’m still not sure why the Society wanted all this…?
757. SHARI
Isn’t it enough to know the Illuminati appreciates your efforts?
CHAMELEON and Big Man sit. THAILOG, BRENTWOOD, Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 And Homunculus #3 STAND.
758. NARRATOR
Shari leaves Lincoln’s office and pulls out her cellphone…
759. SHARI
Dial Nightstone Unlimited.
760. THAILOG
Alexander Thailog.
761. SHARI
The Spear? The Crown?
762. THAILOG
Waiting for you to send to Duval.
763. BRENTWOOD
Brentwood capture little robot. Use it to control other little robots. When bright light shine, robots take spear and crown.
764. SHARI
Lovely.
765. THAILOG
What should we do with the Homunculi?
766. SHARI
Set them free. Maybe they’ll get their own series some day.
767. HOMUNCULUS #1
Free, free, set them free…
768. HOMUNCULUS #2
On basic cable and DVD…
769. HOMUNCULUS #3
Jazz hands!
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Shari, Thailog and Brentwood sit. Elisa and Goliath STAND.
770. NARRATOR
At the castle, Elisa’s cell rings.
771. ELISA
Maza… Yeah, Captain Stacy said you might call. Sure, he’s right here.
772. NARRATOR
She hands the phone to Goliath, who doesn’t quite know how to hold it. She takes it back and puts the call on speaker.
773. GOLIATH
Hello…?
Spider-Man STANDS.
774. SPIDER-MAN
Hey, Goliath. It’s your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
775. GOLIATH
You protect your… neighborhood.
776. SPIDER-MAN
Just like you do the super-hero thing without the tights.
777. GOLIATH
Spider-Man, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
778. SPIDER-MAN
Hey, I was just gonna say that. You saw that movie too?
779. GOLIATH
Movie?
780. ELISA
God, I love you… <kiss>
Elisa, Goliath and Spider-Man sit. Kafka STANDS.
781. NARRATOR
And finally â€" yes, finally â€" we end where we began. In the offices of Dr. Ashley Kafka at Ravencroft. She’s on the phone to her Board of Directors.
782. KAFKA
After all that tsuris, little has changed. Otto and Eddie are still disassociative. Max still needs a cure, and John still wants power. Cletus? He just keeps repeating, “I got a taste now,†over and over. Yes, we lost Dominic, I’m afraid. But we do have a new patient…
Dominique STANDS.
783. KAFKA (CONT)
…Dominique Destine.
784. DOMINIQUE
Just wait until the sun goes down…
Dominique and Kafka sit.
785. NARRATOR
The End.
THE END
NEXT: I finally get back to answering questions...
G2009 Radio Play
G2009 Radio Play - Act Two
BIG MAN STANDS.
247. NARRATOR
Act Two. The Big Man of Crime enters his offices, but finds he’s not alone…
248. BIG MAN
You spend so much time here, I’ll need to buy you your own chair. So you’ll stay out of mine.
Green Goblin STANDS.
249. GREEN GOBLIN
Surprised to see me?
250. BIG MAN
Not particularly.
251. GREEN GOBLIN
Then you won’t be surprised to learn I’m still running things…
252. BIG MAN
If you can run them from a hospital bed…
253. NARRATOR
Catching Gobby off guard, Lincoln punches him right through the window…
254. GREEN GOBLIN
<impact grunt>
255. NARRATOR
The goblin-glider swoops in and catches the Goblin, who pulls out a Pumpkin Bomb.
PUMPKIN BOMB STANDS.
256. GREEN GOBLIN
Ever the gracious host. And ever the gracious guest, the Goblin must show his appreciation. Here. I brought a gift.
257. NARRATOR
Gobby throws his “giftâ€, but Goliath swoops in, catches it and throws it back.
Goliath and Spider-Man STAND.
258. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
259. GREEN GOBLIN
<impact>
260. NARRATOR
Not far away…
261. SPIDER-MAN
No, no, no, no, no… I was hoping I’d never hear that trademark Pumpkin Bomb shriek again…
262. NARRATOR
Spidey swings in to find Goliath and a recovering Gobby together…
263. SPIDER-MAN
So that’s what these gargoyles are… more of the Goblin’s Halloween creations…
264. NARRATOR
Spidey swings into action against Goliath.
265. GOLIATH, SPIDER-MAN
<ad-lib battle sounds>
266. GOLIATH
The Bugle was right about you: you are a threat and a menace!
267. SPIDER-MAN
Wait, you can talk? And read?! And what you read is the Jolly One’s editorials?!
268. GREEN GOBLIN
I know I should assassinate Mr. Lincoln. But I’m so enjoying the show. Really, someone should make more Gargoyles. I know: I’ll call Walt Disney.
Green Goblin, Spider-Man, Goliath, Pumpkin Bomb and Big Man sit. ANGELA, BROOKLYN, BROADWAY and LEXINGTON STAND.
269. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, atop the Eyrie Building, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway watch Angela playing with Brooklyn’s son Nashville…
270. ANGELA
That’s great, Nashville. This time try the axe…
271. BROADWAY
Wow, Angela looks so adorable playing with Gnash. I mean, Gnash is cute too…
272. BROOKLYN
Thanks. I know he hatched in another decade, but Katana and I discussed it, and we want the whole clan to be Gnash and Egwardo’s Rookery parents…
273. BROADWAY
We’d be honored…
274. LEXINGTON
I still can’t quite take it all in. I go to Britain for a few weeks, and everything changes…
275. BROADWAY
At least you were gone for weeks. Try adjusting in forty seconds.
276. BROOKLYN
Hey, I had forty years to get ready for this, and it’s still strange…
277. LEXINGTON
But, dude. You’re so… old.
278. BROOKLYN
Thanks.
279. LEXINGTON
Older than Goliath.
280. BROOKLYN
Yeah.
281. LEXINGTON
Almost Hudson’s age.
282. BROOKLYN
I get it. I’m old.
283. LEXINGTON
It’s not that. Everything about you is different.
284. BROOKLYN
Oh, come on…
285. BROADWAY
No, he’s right. The way you talk. The way you move. All those weapons you carry now. It’s like you’ve outgrown us.
286. BROOKLYN
That’s not fair. I can’t tell you how much I missed you both.
287. LEXINGTON
We get that. And we’re not mad. But…
288. BROOKLYN
Look, this isn’t all on me. As I recall, things were already changing. Broadway spent all his time with Angela.
289. BROADWAY
Not all my time.
290. LEXINGTON
Uh… pretty much.
291. BROADWAY
Yeah, well, you’re practically on the internet non-stop.
292. LEXINGTON
It’s addictive! Do you know they have porn on that thing? There’s this one website, Blue Mug Prodâ€"
293. BROOKLYN
I don’t wanna know. The point is we’ve all gone through some changes. That’s just life.
294. BROADWAY
I guess our Three Musketeer days are over…
295. LEXINGTON
Yeah…
Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
296. ZAFIRO
Gargoyles of Manhattan!
297. OBSIDIANA
We need you’re help!
298. NARRATOR
At just that moment, the sun rises, turning Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Angela and Gnash to stone. Obsidiana and Zafiro are unaffected, thanks to their mystic Mayan pendants.
299. ZAFIRO
Mierda.
300. OBSIDIANA
Nuestro cronometraje apesta hoy.
Obsidiana, Zafiro, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Angela sit. Spider-Man, Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
301. NARRATOR
Across town, Goliath also turns to stone.
302. SPIDER-MAN
What the heck?!
303. GREEN GOBLIN
Well, that was… unexpected.
304. SPIDER-MAN
All right, that’s enough. I know you’re not the real Gobby.
305. GREEN GOBLIN
Yes, yes, “It’s not the voice; it’s the words. Not the tech, but the moves.†I’ve heard it all before…
306. SPIDER-MAN
Then I know exactly who you really are: Chameleon!
307. GREEN GOBLIN
That would ease your conscience, wouldn’t it? To think I’m Chameleon â€" and not the ghost of the man you killed!
308. SPIDER-MAN
I don’t believe in ghosts.
309. GREEN GOBLIN
Then maybe you’d prefer I was the Spawn of Goblin.
310. SPIDER-MAN
Oh, you’d just love to shift the blame to Harry. Sorry, Gobby â€" I mean, Chammy â€" but we’ve been there, done that. Besides, no matter who you are, there hasn’t been time for the Globulin Green to kick in and truly Goblify you. So I’m gonna take you down now while you’re still just a cheap imitation.
311. GREEN GOBLIN
You could do that… or you could save stoneface over there.
312. NARRATOR
Gobby throws a pumpkin bomb at Goliath. Instinctively, Spidey webs it away…
313. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
Pumpkin Bomb and Green Goblin sit.
314. NARRATOR
By which time, the Goblin is gone, leaving a confused Spidey perched on Goliath’s head…
315. SPIDER-MAN
So in hindsight, I’m thinking maybe you weren’t part of the Gob-Squad, right?
(beat)
Fine. Stonewall me.
May STANDS.
316. NARRATOR
That morning in Forest Hills, Spidey sneaks in through his bedroom window, hoping to catch a few Zs.
317. MAY
Peter, are you awake.
318. PETER
Uh, sure Aunt May. Just getting dressed.
319. MAY
Well, hurry up. I’m… “conferencing†with all the other parents.
Robbie, ROSIE THOMPSON and George STAND.
320. ROBBIE
Are you sure you don’t mind, Mrs. Parker? Cuz I gotta say, what you’re proposing would be my worst nightmare.
321. MAY
<laughs> Oh, I don’t believe that for a minute, Mr. Robertson. It’s a joy to be around Peter and his friends. And I won’t be alone. Anna Watson and Mrs. Osborn will be with me.
322. ROSIE
Emily? She’s so… odd. I don’t think she’s ever said one word to me…
323. MAY
Well, I don’t know her very well, Rosie, but Harry is Peter’s best friend â€" no offense to your Eugene â€" so she must be doing something right.
324. ROSIE
May, you never change. Always seeing the best in people.
325. MAY
I’ll take that as a compliment, dear girl.
326. GEORGE
In any case, I’m glad to get Gwen out of Manhattan for a few days. The streets are looking pretty grim right about now.
327. MAY
Oh, I’m sure your officers will have things under control in no time.
328. PETER
Aunt May, what’s going on?
329. MAY
Oh, didn’t I tell you, Peter. I’m chaperoning your trip to Miami Beach!
330. PETER
Wow. Great.
Peter, May, George, Rosie and Robbie sit. Big Man and Dominique STAND.
331. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, back at L. Thompson Lincoln’s office…
332. BIG MAN
And how can I be of help, Ms. Destine.
333. DOMINIQUE
I think I can help you, Mr. Lincoln.
334. BIG MAN
What makes you think I need any help?
335. DOMINIQUE
Oh, little things. The shattered window, that unusual statue on the ledge outside…
336. BIG MAN
Point taken. How about you cut to the chase?
337. DOMINIQUE
Fine. Tony Dracon. Tomas Brod. Silvio Manfredi. All in jail. Hammerhead. Sable Manfredi. On the run. This gives you a unique opportunity to reclaim what was lost.
338. BIG MAN
I’m sure L. Thompson Lincoln has no idea what you’re talking about. But go on…
339. DOMINIQUE
You have three problems. Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus and the government watching your every move.
340. BIG MAN
And you have the solution…
341. DOMINIQUE
I have the manpower. Three… “super-villains†to take down the competition and Dominic Dracon to use as a figurehead.
342. BIG MAN
The old man? I heard he was shy a few brain cells.
343. DOMINIQUE
It’s easy enough to spread the word he was faking insanity to avoid prosecution. And easy enough to assign him a keeper. Meanwhile, he’s a Dracon. And that name still carries weight, I believe.
344. BIG MAN
It does. But what would you want in exchange?
345. DOMINIQUE
Nothing extraordinary. Just the services of the Tinkerer.
346. BIG MAN
I believe that can be arranged.
347. DOMINIQUE
Lovely. But let’s not allow the moss to gather. You’ll want to move fast. Before the Octopus retrieves his arms…
Dominique and Big Man sit. SILVER SPOON MANAGER, Vulture, DOCTOR OCTOPUS and Electro STAND.
348. NARRATOR
The weather has turned cold. At the Silver Spoon, three men in trench coats and hats wait for their coffee.
349. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Sixty-nine!
350. VULTURE
Yes. Here.
351. NARRATOR
Vulture sits down with Electro and Doctor Octopus.
352. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Thank you, Adrian. Now. My arms?
353. VULTURE
In an OsCorp vault.
354. ELECTRO
At Rykers?!
355. VULTURE
<shhhhh> Not THE Vault. A vault. Still very high security, and the police are bound to expect our arrival, but…
356. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed. <sigh> OsCorp. Even in death, Norman Osborn torments me. But it cannot be helped. I must have my arms. We go in under cover of darkness tonight.
Doctor Octopus, Vulture and Electro sit. Silver Spoon Manager remains standing. Peter and Mary Jane STAND.
357. NARRATOR
The three men exit through one door. Two teenagers enter through another.
358. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy!
359. MARY JANE
Try to understand, Tiger. I just can’t do that to Gwen. She’s really become my best friend at Midtown.
360. PETER
But it’s not like we’d be making out or anything, right? Uh, right?
361. MARY JANE
Right.
362. PETER
Right, right. We’d be going as friends. Hanging out when the couples were … you know, coupling.
363. MARY JANE
And that would be great. But look at it from her point of view. She took all the risks, and you still wound up with Liz. There’s no way, she’d see me as anything but a threat. Wait, that sounded really conceited.
364. PETER
Have you looked in a mirror? Not conceited. Just fact.
365. MARY JANE
Ooh, nice one. Such a player.
366. PETER
Yeah, right. The world’s loneliest player.
367. MARY JANE
Stop it. I know you don’t want to hurt Gwen either. Not after all the two of you have been through.
368. PETER
Yeah… I wonder if Ms. Brant likes Miami. Kidding, kidding… Wow, pretty good. That was practically the Look.
369. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy-One!
SEYMOUR O’REILLY stands.
370. PETER
So you’re just not going?
371. MARY JANE
Oh, I’m going. It’s 48 degrees outside and 82 in Miami. I asked Tiny to be my plus one.
372. PETER
Tiny?! Tiny McKeever?! The guy’s got the brain of an amoeba. He makes King Kong look like a genius. Hell, he makes Flash look like Stephen Hawking!
373. MARY JANE
(shrugs)
He’s cute.
374. PETER
<argggh> I just wish I could skip the whole thing. But Aunt May’s going, and after her heart attack, I really think she could use some fun in the sun--
375. SEYMOUR
Sorry to interrupt. Couldn’t help overhearing.
376. PETER
Oh, hey, Seymour.
377. SEYMOUR
Just wanted to let you know Harry invited me too. And I’m totally going stag. I mean who wants a ball and chain when Miami Beach is full of hotties, right?
378. PETER
Uh…
379. SEYMOUR
Just don’t expect to hang out, okay. You’d fully cramp my style.
380. PETER
Of course I would…
381. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Seventy-two!!
Silver Spoon Manager, Peter, Seymour and Mary Jane sit. Dominique and TINKERER STAND.
382. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, the Tinkerer arrives at the Destine Mansion…
383. DOMINIQUE
You have the devices?
384. TINKERER
Five was all I could put together on short notice. Unless you want to bring Mysterio in…?
385. DOMINIQUE
Our stage is crowded enough. And five should do quite nicely.
Dominique and Tinkerer sit. May, Mary Jane, GREG BISHANSKY, Sally, Gwen, Harry, Kong, Rand, Flash, Liz, Jason, Peter and Seymour STAND.
386. NARRATOR
Later that afternoon, Harry’s rented a party bus, and the gang is en route to the airport, stuck in heavy traffic on the expressway. A very prepared May Parker has a clipboard…
387. MAY
All right, we have three adults and sixteen children â€" sorry, sixteen teenagers. That’s nineteen sojourners bound for Florida. So why did my headcount come to twenty?
388. MARY JANE
I think you counted the bus driver, Mrs. Parker.
389. MAY
Oh, that I did.
390. BISHANSKY
Hey, twist my arm! I’ll go to Miami with you guys!!
391. SALLY
Was anyone talking to you?
392. BISHANSKY
Uh… no.
393. SALLY
Then eyes front.
394. BISHANSKY
Eyes front.
395. GWEN
Harry, are you all right?
396. HARRY
I dunno. All this stopping and starting. My stomach’s a little queasy…
397. KONG
Dude. Does this bus rock or what?!
398. RAND
‘Scool.
399. FLASH
Damn right it’s cool. Wouldn’t mind taking this baby all the way to Florida.
400. SALLY
Excuse me?! It’s a bus.
401. LIZ
Sally’s right. We’re not ditching the private jet for a bus. Right, Jason?
402. JASON
Uh…
403. SALLY
Right.
404. PETER
It really is a very nice bus though.
405. BISHANSKY
Hey, I’m not offended. I still can’t believe the Osborns hired me again. The last time, I got in two-- <impact grunt>
406. SEYMOUR
Dude, you totally rear-ended that guy at the tollbooth!
407. BISHANSKY
Not again…
408. SALLY
Wonderful. Now, we’ll be stuck here forever!
409. MAY
Everybody stay calm.
410. HARRY
Ah, man, gotta use the john…
411. KONG
<laughs> I think Osborn’s gonna hurl!
412. SALLY
Oh. My. God! If my hair starts smelling like vomit, I’ll sue you for bus-driver malpractice!!
413. BISHANSKY
Sorry, sorry…
Bishansky, Sally, Kong, Harry, May, Seymour, Peter, Jason, Liz, Flash, Rand, Gwen and Mary Jane sit. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
414. NARRATOR
The sun sets. At the castle, the gargoyles awaken…
415. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY, LEXINGTON
<awakening roars>
416. BROOKLYN
You must be Zafiro.
417. ZAFIRO
How did you know?
418. BROOKLYN
Strong family resemblance.
419. ZAFIRO
¿Perdón?
420. BROOKLYN
Long story. Time travel. The future. A whole other spin-off. Two actually…
421. OBSIDIANA
We don’t have time for your “spin-offsâ€. ¿Donde esta Goliath?
422. BROADWAY
He didn’t sleep here.
423. LEXINGTON
But I’m sure he’ll be back soon.
Elisa STANDS.
424. ELISA
He’d better. We have trouble. Demona trouble.
425. OBSIDIANA
Elisa!
426. ELISA
Hi, Obsidiana. I’m betting you have trouble too…
Elisa, Obsidiana, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Zafiro sit. Kraven, Calypso, Curt and Gulyadkin STAND.
427. NARRATOR
And while the clan awaits Goliath’s return…
428. KRAVEN
It is time, Calypso.
429. CALYPSO
Yes. The forces gather. We can make this one our own.
430. CURT
I demand you let me go!
431. KRAVEN
Hold your tongue, American dog. Or Gulyadkin will hold it for you.
432. GULYADKIN
<low lion growl>
433. CALYPSO
Calm yourself… This change will not be difficult. The primitive bound within is barely skin-deep…
434. CURT
I-- I don’t know what you’re talking about.
435. CALYPSO
I think you do. You see my companion. The details may have been created in a laboratory…
436. KRAVEN
But the soul of the Hunter â€" the beast inside â€" was always my own.
437. CURT
What are doing with that doll?
438. CALYPSO
Turning it inside out.
439. CURT
Listen to me, please. Even if you can release the “beast insideâ€, you don’t want to! It can’t be controlled.
440. KRAVEN
<laughs> Nyet. Not by you perhaps. But my Calypso is not so easily trifled with.
441. CALYPSO
It is time…
442. CURT
Noooo!!!! <transformation scream>
443. NARRATOR
Curt Connors is transformed by Calypso’s magic into the Lizard.
444. LIZARD
<roar>
445. KRAVEN
Now… to the Hunt!
Kraven, LIZARD, Calypso and Gulyadkin sit. Obsidiana, Zafiro, Angela, Elisa, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn STAND.
446. NARRATOR
Back at the Castle, Goliath has returned, and the entire clan has gathered. Elisa’s revealed what she knows about Demona. Now, it’s Obsidiana’s turn…
447. OBSIDIANA
It came from somewhere further south. Two human smugglers carrying an object of great power through the Green…
448. ZAFIRO
My mate is sensitive to these things. We tracked them, but they boarded a jet airplane and were soon out of our reach.
449. OBSIDIANA
Pero still I could sense great forces gathering. I asked Jade and Turquesa to teach us the way to Avalon…
450. ZAFIRO
Gabriel says hello, by the way.
451. ANGELA
Oh, I miss him. How is he?
452. ELISA
Angela, honey, let’s stay on point. I take it Avalon sent you here.
453. OBSIDIANA
Yes. We nearly achieved the totem, but a ridiculous human dressed in red and blueâ€"
454. ELISA, GOLIATH (UNISON)
Spider-Man…
455. OBSIDIANA
He did spin webs like a spider. Though from his hands, not hisâ€"
456. ZAFIRO
Focus, mi amor.
457. OBSIDIANA
Lo siento. This Man-Spider, he interfered. The smugglers escaped again. Now, power builds on power, rising to a crescendo.
458. BROADWAY
And that’s bad, right?
459. NARRATOR
Elisa’s cellphone rings.
Matt STANDS.
460. ELISA
Maza.
461. MATT
It’s Matt. Something’s going down at the OsCorp vault off the Expressway. Most of the Taskforce is already here. Stacy and his men too. But I’m thinking we might need… “back-upâ€. Lots and lots of back-up.
462. ELISA
We’re on our way. Brooklyn, can Bronx and Fu-Dog baby-sit Egwardo?
463. BROOKLYN
Of course.
464. ELISA
Good. Because otherwise it’s all hands on deck.
Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath and Angela sit. George, Morgan and O’Neil STAND.
465. MATT
Okay, Captain. The rest of the Taskforce is on its way.
466. GEORGE
My men are deployed.
467. O’NEIL
And just in time! Cuz we got Gobby and his Pumpkin-Heads at 12 o’clock!
Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
468. GREEN GOBLIN
Playtime!
469. PUMPKIN BOMB
<shriek>
470. MORGAN
And a gargoyle at 3 o’clock!
471. GEORGE
That’s not a gargoyle. That’s the Vulture!
Vulture STANDS.
472. VULTURE
You were right, Otto. The police were waiting. And the Goblin is here too. You don’t think it could actually be Osborn, still alive, do you?
Doctor Octopus and Electro STAND.
473. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Do not get distracted by old grudges, Adrian. It hardly matters who wears the Green. His intent is still to prevent me from regaining my arms. You must keep the Goblin and the authorities occupied.
474. VULTURE
Of course.
475. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Now, Electro. Open the vault.
476. ELECTRO
Roger that, Doc!
477. NARRATOR
Electro, already inside, short-circuits the vault’s electro-magnetic lock.
Tinkerer and Demona STAND.
478. TINKERER
Electro’s breached the vault.
479. DEMONA
So predictable. Send in your operatives.
480. NARRATOR
Tinkerer opens a burlap sack, releasing his five “operativesâ€.
HOMUNCULUS #1, HOMUNCULUS #2, HOMUNCULUS #3, HOMUNCULUS #4 and HOMUNCULUS #5 STAND.
481. HOMUNCULUS #1
Homunculi to the rescue!
482. HOMUNCULUS #2
Dirty work to be done!
483. HOMUNCULUS #3
Peach Cobbler!
484. HOMUNCULUS #4
Uh oh, somebody’s language system’s off-line again.
485. HOMUNCULUS #5
You know it, girlfriend!
Calypso, Kraven and Lizard STAND.
486. NARRATOR
And down in the sewer…
487. CALYPSO
It is right above us, my love. The Power and the Glory. The very keys to the Kingdom.
488. KRAVEN
And Kraven will lay them all at your feet.
489. LIZARD
<lizard roar>
490. NARRATOR
Up top, a stretch limo skids to a stop outside the vault. Dominic Dracon and Fancy Dan emerge.
Dracon and FANCY DAN STAND.
491. DRACON
All right, boys. Get me those jewels!
492. FANCY DAN
I think what the boss means is… Destroy the competition!
Carnage, Colonel Jupiter and Venom STAND.
493. CARNAGE
<evil chuckle> Carnage time?
494. FANCY DAN
Yeah. Go. Kill. Whatever.
495. COLONEL JUPITER
Colonel Jupiter will stop the Green Goblin and Vulture in their tracks!
496. FANCY DAN
Knock yourself out. But what are you waiting for?
497. VENOM
Someone worthy of our hate. But we have faith… He’ll come…
498. GREEN GOBLIN
My, my, the field’s getting crowded. Let’s thin the herd. Pumpkin-Heads, release the hounds! <ahem> That was a metaphor. Throw your pumpkin bombs already!
499. PUMPKIN BOMB
<multiple shrieks>
Pumpkin Bomb, Green Goblin, Venom, Fancy Dan, Colonel Jupiter, Carnage, Dracon, Lizard, Kraven, Calypso, Homunculus #5, Homunculus #4, Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Demona, Tinkerer, Electro, Doctor Octopus, Vulture, George, Morgan, O’Neil and Matt SIT. May, Peter, Bishansky, Flash, Kong, Sally, Mary Jane, Gwen and Harry STAND.
500. MAY
Goodness, what was that?
501. PETER
Something The Bugle will want pictures of. Open the door.
502. BISHANSKY
Uh…
503. MAY
Peter Parker, I am not letting you off this bus in the middle of the expressway.
504. PETER
Aunt May we’re at a complete standstill. And you don’t have to worry. I’ll use my telephoto lens. I won’t be anywhere near the action.
505. MAY
I suppose it is your job… Open the door.
506. BISHANSKY
Yes, ma’am.
507. PETER
Thanks, Aunt May. You rock!
508. FLASH
If Puny Parker’s going, I’m going too!
509. MAY
Eugene Thompson, you sit your backside down in that seat right this minute.
510. FLASH
Yes, ma’am.
511. KONG
<laughs>
512. SALLY
What’s he going to take pictures with? I saw his camera get blown up two months ago.
513. MARY JANE
Pete’s a professional photographer, Sally. I’m sure he has more than one camera.
514. GWEN
Harry… Are you all right in there?
515. HARRY
<vomit noise> Ugh, don’t come in. It really isn’t pretty.
Harry, Gwen, Mary Jane, Sally, Kong, Flash, May, Peter and Bishansky sit. Broadway, Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Elisa, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
516. NARRATOR
The clan alights on a rise overlooking the battlefield.
517. BROADWAY
Whoa, what a mess…
518. GOLIATH
We will split our forces. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro with me.
519. BROOKLYN
Shouldn’t I lead the other contingent?
520. GOLIATH
I need your experience and your weapons at my side.
521. ANGELA
Don’t worry, Brooklyn, we’ve got it covered.
522. NARRATOR
Angela, Hudson, Katana, Gnash, Coldstone and Coldfire glide toward the battle.
523. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY (UNISON)
Be careful!
Angela sits.
524. ELISA
You know I’m going with you.
525. GOLIATH
Not this time, Elisa. You must join your fellow officers…
526. ELISA
Butâ€"
527. GOLIATH
When all is settled, we shall need your help to cover our retreat from this conflagration… You know this is true.
528. ELISA
(defeated)
Yes.
Elisa sits. Spider-Man STANDS.
529. NARRATOR
Elisa makes her way down the hill. Goliath and the others glide to the Vault’s roof. Spider-Man lands there at the same time.
530. SPIDER-MAN, ZAFIRO (UNISON)
You again!
531. GOLIATH
Hold, Spider-Man. I have a friend who knows your Captain Stacy.
532. SPIDER-MAN
Really?
533. GOLIATH
This policeman believes in you. So I choose to believe in you as well.
534. SPIDER-MAN
Says the eight-foot tall medieval monster. But I get it. We’re on the same side. So let’s go kick some Pumpkin-Butt!
535. ZAFIRO
¡Idiota! That battle is a mere distraction.
536. OBSIDIANA
The true danger lies within…
537. SPIDER-MAN
All right, all right, you had me at “Idiotaâ€.
538. NARRATOR
The gargoyles rip open the rooftop. The seven heroes descend, but someone watches…
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn sit. Venom and Fancy Dan STAND.
539. VENOM
And there goes our Bro…
540. FANCY DAN
You going in? That wasn’t the plan!
541. VENOM
And how do intend to stop us?
542. FANCY DAN
Fine, go. But if you see my Ricochet suit, bring it out!
Fancy Dan and Venom sit. Foswell, Jonah and Robbie STAND.
543. FOSWELL
See, J.J. The tip from Dracon’s old chauffer was right on the money.
544. JONAH
Whaddaya want, a fershlugginer medal?! Let’s get in there!
545. ROBBIE
Slow down, Jonah. I promised Joan I wouldn’t let you lose your head, figuratively or literally.
546. JONAH
Forget my head! Who cares about my head?! My boy needs me!
Ned and Colonel Jupiter STAND.
547. NED
Looks to me like your boy’s doing pretty well, Chief!
548. COLONEL JUPITER
Take that, miscreants!
549. ROBBIE
Ned, how did youâ€"
550. NED
Tip from one of the pumpkin-heads. Foswell’s not the only one with sources.
551. JONAH
You two can naked mud-wrestle over who’s the biggest brown-noser later. For now, Robbie, if you don’t let go of me in zero-point-zero seconds, I’ll dropkick you to next Season! And there’s no guarantee there’ll be a next Season!
552. NARRATOR
Jonah breaks away from Robbie, but his path is blocked…
Elisa STANDS.
553. ELISA
Get back! You want to wind up street pizza!
554. JONAH
But that’s my son up there.
555. ELISA
Yeah, well, at least he’s fighting on the right side.
556. COLONEL JUPITER
Nothing stands against the might of Colonel Jupiter!
557. ELISA
Does he always talk like that?
558. ROBBIE
Bombasticism runs in the family.
Robbie, Elisa, Colonel Jupiter, Jonah, Ned and Foswell sit. Vulture, Carnage, Green Goblin, Angela, Fancy Dan, Matt and Dracon STAND.
559. NARRATOR
Jupiter takes down Pumpkin-Heads right and left. Hudson squares off against Vulture.
560. VULTURE
Why do I get the old guy?
561. NARRATOR
You’re old. He’s old. It’s parallelism. Get over it.
(beat)
Coldstone and Coldfire isolate Carnage.
562. CARNAGE
No fair! These two don’t spatter at all!
563. NARRATOR
Angela and Katana take on the Goblin.
564. GREEN GOBLIN
Oh, goody. Gobby likes getting down and dirty with the hotties.
565. ANGELA
Oh, you did not just say that.
566. NARRATOR
And little Gnash goes after Fancy Dan.
567. FANCY DAN
Admit it, you gave me the kid because I’m short?
568. NARRATOR
Even Detective Bluestone gets into the act.
569. MATT
Freeze, Dracon!
570. DRACON
You’re confused. I’m G.F. Benton, a certified public accountant. I think I’ll be going now…
571. MATT
Yeah. Back to Ravencroft, you old nutter!
572. NARRATOR
But inside, things are a bit more serious…
Matt, Dracon, Fancy Dan, Angela, Green Goblin, Carnage and Vulture sit. Electro and Doctor Octopus STAND.
573. ELECTRO
Got your arms, Doc!
574. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
And my Megalo-Pack?
575. ELECTRO
You’re Mega-what now?
576. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
My power-source, Maxwell.
577. ELECTRO
Right, right. No. That’s not here.
578. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
What?!
Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #3 STAND.
579. HOMUNCULUS #1
Gotta get the true treasure!
580. HOMUNCULUS #2
Bring it back to the big Smurfette!
581. HOMUNCULUS #3
Blunk hates getting wet!
582. NARRATOR
Three Homunculi fly deeper into the vault to retrieve Demona’s prize.
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Zafiro, Spider-Man, Lexington, Homunculus #5, Goliath, Brooklyn, Broadway and Obsidiana STAND.
583. ZAFIRO
What are those things?!
584. SPIDER-MAN, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
Robots!
585. LEXINGTON
And I got one!
586. HOMUNCULUS #5
Leggo, you big bully!
587. LEXINGTON
<ugh> What an annoying voice…
588. HOMUNCULUS #5
(aside to audience)
Look who’s talking.
589. LEXINGTON
…But I might be able to use it to take control of the others.
590. SPIDER-MAN
I think I can help.
Venom STANDS.
591. VENOM
You’ll be a little too busy for that, Bro.
592. GOLIATH
Friend of yours?
593. SPIDER-MAN
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
594. VENOM
Die, Spider-Man!
595. VENOM, SPIDER-MAN
<add-lib battle sounds>
596. SPIDER-MAN
A little help?
597. NARRATOR
Brooklyn blasts Venom, who collapses.
598. VENOM
<vibrating scream>
Venom sits.
599. BROOKLYN
Sonic Cannon. Circa 2198. Guess my weapons do come in handy.
600. LEXINGTON
Just cover me until I can get this working…
Demona and Tinkerer STAND.
601. DEMONA
What’s wrong, Tinkerer? Why haven’t they returned?
602. TINKERER
Someone’s trying to counter their programming. He won’t succeed.
603. DEMONA
He had better not.
604. LEXINGTON
My hack’s being hacked!
605. TINKERER
He’s overriding my override!
Homunculus #4 STANDS.
606. HOMUNCULUS #4
Go right. Go left. Go right. Go left. Blow up!
607. NARRATOR
Homunculus #4 blows up. But so does Homunculus #5 in Lexington’s hands!
608. LEXINGTON
<pain cry>
609. BROADWAY
Lexington!
Homunculus #4 and Homunculus #5 sit.
610. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
This is madness! Grab my arms and get me out of here!
611. ELECTRO
Workin’ on it!
612. NARRATOR
Electro blasts away, until he and Doc Ock are blindsided by…
Kraven, Gulyadkin, Lizard and Calypso STAND.
613. ELECTRO, DOCTOR OCTOPUS
<impacts>
614. BROADWAY
Look, it’s Claw.
615. KRAVEN
<roar>
616. BROOKLYN
That’s not Claw.
617. BROADWAY
Well, it’s sure not Maggie.
618. GULYADKIN
<lion roar>
619. LEXINGTON
(recovering)
Is that an actual lion?
620. LIZARD
<lizard roar>
621. SPIDER-MAN
Lizard, too? Seriously, this is way over the top.
Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
622. HOMUNCULUS #1
Got the gizmo!
623. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi never fail!
624. NARRATOR
Two homunculi fly past, carrying a sealed container down a dark corridor.
625. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA (UNISON)
The totem!
(pointing at each other)
Don’t let her near it!
626. KRAVEN
Go, Calypso! Leave them to us!
627. ZAFIRO
¡Vaya, mi amor!
628. BROOKLYN
We got your back, Goliath! Go!
629. SPIDER-MAN
Think I’ll tag along too…
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Calypso, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Goliath, Tinkerer and Demona sit.
630. NARRATOR
Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spider-Man race down the corridor.
631. KRAVEN
Lizard, take the reptile!
632. ZAFIRO
¡No soy ningún reptil! ¡Soy un Gárgolo!
633. ZAFIRO, LIZARD
<ad-lib battle sounds>
634. KRAVEN
Gulyadkin attack!
635. GULYADKIN
<pounce roar>
636. NARRATOR
Gulyadkin and Kraven attack Lex and Broadway!
637. LEXINGTON
Hey, get him off me!
638. BROADWAY
Kinda busy at the moment!
639. GULYADKIN, LEXINGTON, KRAVEN, BROADWAY
<ad-lib struggles>
640. NARRATOR
Brooklyn steps in and pulls both cats off his rookery brothers. They turn on him.
641. BROOKLYN
Uh oh.
642. BROADWAY, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
All for one!
643. NARRATOR
The two gargoyles return the favor, knocking Kraven and Gulyadkin aside. Then Brooklyn blasts them both.
644. BROOKLYN
And one for all!
645. KRAVEN, GULYADKIN
<blast impacts>
646. LEXINGTON
Some things never change.
647. NARRATOR
Zafiro throws Lizard’s unconscious body on top of Kraven…
648. KRAVEN, LIZARD
<oofs>
649. ZAFIRO
We should follow Obsidiana…
650. ZAFIRO, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY
<electrocution scream>
651. NARRATOR
The four gargoyles are dropped by Electro’s blast.
652. ELECTRO
Still want out?
653. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed not. My curiosity is piqued. Let’s see where this leads…
Doctor Octopus, Electro, Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn, Zafiro, Gulyadkin, Kraven and Lizard sit. Demona, Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
654. NARRATOR
Electro and Octopus head down the corridor… In a dimly lit room, Demona holds the Spear of Destiny and watches as the two homunculi open the container. Inside… is a crown of thorns.
655. DEMONA
The Crown of Thorns!
656. NARRATOR
Demona removes her tiara.
657. DEMONA
Place it on my head…
658. HOMUNCULUS #1
Placing, placing…
659. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi aim to please!
660. NARRATOR
The Homunculi gently lower the crown onto Demona’s head before disappearing back into the darkness. The thorns bite into her brow, drawing blood. Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spidey come rushing in.
Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Spider-Man, Goliath, Calypso and Obsidiana STAND.
661. DEMONA
My Kingdom come. My Will be done…
662. SPIDER-MAN
Friend of yours?
663. GOLIATH
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
664. DEMONA
On Earth as it is in Heaven…
665. CALYPSO
Too late…
666. OBSIDIANA
Too late…
667. DEMONA
For MINE is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory for ever and ever…
668. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA, SPIDER-MAN (UNISON)
Amen…
669. NARRATOR
Light radiates outward from the Spear. Goliath watches in confusion as Calypso, Obsidiana and Spider-Man drop to their knees before Demona. Octopus and Electro enter and likewise fall to their knees. The light reaches the outer vault. Though still unconscious, Venom, Lizard, Zafiro and Kraven lurch to their feet, then drop to their knees. And still the light advances…
Obsidiana and Calypso sit.
670. GOLIATH
What sorcery is this?!
671. DEMONA
The most powerful human sorcery ever created, Goliath. This is humanity’s Armageddon. Their entire race’s final act.
END ACT TWO
NEXT: ACT THREE...
G2009 Radio Play
G2009 Radio Play - Act One
4. NARRATOR
The Spectacular Spider-Man Meets Gargoyles. RELIGIOUS STUDIES 101: A HANDFUL OF THORNS. Act One. Late that night atop the Eyrie Building…
Dominique and Kafka sit. GOLIATH and ELISA MAZA STAND and KISS.
5. GOLIATH, ELISA
<kiss>
6. GOLIATH
There are some human customs I will never get used to Elisa. <kisses her again> This is not one of them.
7. ELISA
You’re in a good mood.
8. GOLIATH
I am. Hudson and Lexington are back from Europe, bringing Coldstone and Coldfire with them.
9. ELISA
<chuckle> Not to mention Brooklyn returning from forty years of TimeDancing with a mate, a son, a beast and an egg.
10. GOLIATH
The clan has doubled in size. What challenge can the Fates throw at us now that we cannotâ€"
11. NARRATOR
The sun rises. Goliath turns to stone.
12. ELISA
<groan> You just had to say that out loud, didn’t you?
Elisa and Goliath sit. MAY PARKER and PETER PARKER STAND.
13. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, in Forest Hills…
14. MAY
Peter, what are you doing up?
15. PETER
Studying for today’s English final. It’s on Midsummer Night’s Dream. And I missed seeing the Cliff Notes version.
16. MAY
Which may explain why you and Miss Allan are no longer a couple.
17. PETER
Aunt May, you know we didn’t break up because I missed her play.
18. MAY
You’re right; I shouldn’t be glib. I suppose there’s no chance that you and Gwen…
19. PETER
I don’t know. Not now anyway. Not when Harry’s hurting so much from the death of his father.
20. MAY
It hardly seems possible that Norman Osborn is gone. The Bugle says he was the Green Goblin, but I’m not sure I can believe that.
21. PETER
Sometimes, Aunt May… it’s, okay, to believe everything you read…
May and Peter sit. GREEN GOBLIN and BLACKIE GAXTON STAND.
22. NARRATOR
At a dive bar downtown, the Green Goblin BURSTS in on his glider…
23. GREEN GOBLIN
<tsk, tsk, tsk> Blackie. This place is scummy even by your pond-scum standards. Quite a comedown from your last gig…
24. BLACKIE
Tell that to the whacko who set a flaming super-villain loose in The Big Sky. Oh, wait. That was you.
25. GREEN GOBLIN
Yes. Yes, it was. <maniacal laugh>
26. BLACKIE
Weren’t you supposed to be dead?
27. GREEN GOBLIN
I was also supposed to be Osborn, but you didn’t buy that, did you? Just one of the many little tricks I keep up my sleeve. Nothing’s changed, Blackie. The Goblin’s still in charge.
28. BLACKIE
You hear me arguing?
29. GREEN GOBLIN
No. Now, gather my Pumpkin-Heads…
Blackie and Goblin sit. Kafka and Dominique STAND.
30. NARRATOR
At Ravencroft, Dominique Destine and Dr. Kafka supervises six inmates who work to excavate a sub-basement.
31. KAFKA
I still don’t understand what you expect to find down here.
32. DOMINIQUE
Vertros Ravencroft, the founder of this Institute, was a quirky soul. An intimate friend of Freud and Conan Doyle, he was a true believer in both psychotherapy and spiritualism.
33. KAFKA
You speak as if you knew him.
34. DOMINIQUE
Now how would that be possible?
35. KAFKA
It couldn’t, of course… But the dig?
36. DOMINIQUE
Yes. Ravencroft was also a collector. I have reason to believe he buried certain items of his collection here. Now, Doctor, didn’t you say you had meetings scheduled…
37. KAFKA
You’ll be all right down here alone?
38. DOMINIQUE
Your orderlies are in the hallway. And I’m quite self-sufficient. So run along.
Kafka sits. OTTO OCTAVIUS STANDS.
39. DOMINIQUE
Excellent work, Doctor Octavius. Very precise.
40. OTTO
Thank you. I appreciate having something to occupy my hands…
41. DOMINIQUE
Your hands? Not… your arms?
42. OTTO
Arms? I… I hope you’re not referring to my unfortunate… b-b-breakdown.
43. DOMINIQUE
What would be the point? Believe me, Doctor, no one better understands the advantage of creating a false front.
ELECTRO STANDS.
44. ELECTRO
I’ve blasted away another section of cement.
45. DOMINIQUE
Thank you, Maxwell.
46. ELECTRO
Don’t. Call. Me. That.
47. DOMINIQUE
Don’t. Tell. Me. What to do… Electro.
48. ELECTRO
Uh… okay.
(asides to Otto)
She’s a little scary.
49. OTTO
Indeed.
Otto and Electro sit. DOMINIC DRACON, JOHN JAMESON, EDDIE BROCK and CLETUS KASSADY STAND.
50. DRACON
I blame Mace. When that crook cheated me, I lost face. But when I get the jewels back, they’ll respect me again. Did Mace bury the jewels here?
51. DOMINIQUE
Maybe he did, Dominic. Keep working.
52. JOHN
What’s the point? How is tearing up a basement supposed to bring me Colonel Jupiter’s power?!
53. EDDIE
Shut up and dig.
54. JOHN
You like doing this?!
55. EDDIE
I hate it. But I need that hate. I need to keep the hate alive.
56. DOMINIQUE
Such an interesting crew. And what do you want out of life, Cletus…
57. CLETUS
Nothing too fancy. <chuckles> Just a little carnage.
Cletus, Dominique, Eddie, John and Dracon sit. GWEN STACY and Peter STAND.
58. NARRATOR
That afternoon, at Midtown High…
59. GWEN
Hey, Pete. How’d you do?
60. PETER
Ugh, horrible, probably. I mean you know English is like my worst subject. It’s all so subjective andâ€"
61. GWEN
Peter.
62. PETER
Okay, okay… not the look! I probably aced it. Happy?
63. GWEN
That you did well. Always.
64. PETER
Thanks. Look, Gwen, I--
HARRY OSBORN STANDS.
65. HARRY
Well, what have we here? My best friend and girlfriend conferring in a corner. Planning a surprise party for me?
66. PETER
Uh, it’s not your birthday, Harr.
67. HARRY
I thought maybe it was a thank you bash. For giving you both these…
68. GWEN
(reading)
“You are cordially invited to spend Spring Break traveling by private jet to Miami, where you’ll stay, all-expenses-paid, at the Osborn Winter Compound on the Beach…"
69. PETER
You’re inviting the three of us to spend a week together in Florida?
70. HARRY
Not just the three of us…
KENNY KONG, FLASH THOMPSON and MARY JANE WATSON stand.
71. KONG
Osborn, dude! You rock!
72. FLASH
Seven days in the sun and surf.
73. KONG
All you can eat!
74. FLASH
Girls in bikinis!
75. FLASH, KONG (UNISON)
Score! <laughter>
76. MARY JANE
Hi, Sha Shan. Hi, Glory.
77. FLASH
Sha Shan… uh… So… how much of that did you hear?
78. KONG
Look, Glory, you know I meant you, right? I mean who else would I want to see in a bikini. Uh, you’re not gonna break up with me again, are you?
Kong and Flash sit. SALLY AVRIL, RAND ROBERTSON, LIZ ALLAN and JASON IONELLO STAND.
79. SALLY
Oh. My. God. Harry, I just found the invitation in my locker. And all I have to say is that you can be my super-dweeb sugar-daddy anytime you want!
80. HARRY
You okay with that Rand?
81. RAND
‘Scool. You can be my super-dweeb sugar-daddy too.
82. PETER
Exactly how many people did you invite to this thing?
83. HARRY
A handful. Kenny and Glory. Flash and Sha Shan. Rand and Sally. Hobie and Mindy. M.J. Gwen. Oh, and you and Liz, of course.
84. GWEN
Harry… Liz and Peter broke up.
85. HARRY
You did?! Wow. I had no idea. Guess I’ve just been so focused on my own problems. My Dad dying and everything. That’s why I need this trip. Gotta clear my head, you know? But maybe you two could reconcile…
86. SALLY
I don’t think so!
87. LIZ
It’s too late for that Harry. I’m with Jason now. We totally fell in love doing the play together.
88. JASON
We did?
89. SALLY / LIZ (UNISON)
Yes, you did. / Yes, we did.
90. LIZ
You don’t mind if I bring Jason instead of Petey, do you.
91. HARRY
The more the merrier.
92. LIZ
Thanks, Harry. You’re a doll. Kisses!
Liz, Sally, Jason and Rand sit.
93. HARRY
Pete, you’re still invited too. Course, it’s more of a couple’s thing. But M.J.’s guy is in prison…
94. MARY JANE
Thank you, Harry. Hadn’t been reminded of that in the last five minutes.
95. HARRY
Sorry, sorry. It’s just that I can’t help remembering the Fall Formal. You two made such a great pair! Don’t you think so, Gwen?
96. GWEN
Great.
97. PETER
I… suppose we could go… as friends. Just as friends.
98. MARY JANE
We’ll talk later, Tiger.
Mary Jane, Peter, Gwen and Harry sit. Kafka and CURT CONNORS STAND.
99. NARRATOR
Late that afternoon in Dr. Kafka’s office…
100. KAFKA
Doctor Connors, it’s good to see you. I’d heard you moved to Florida.
101. CURT
I did. But I never stopped working on a cure for Max Dillon. I think I’ve made some real progress.
102. KAFKA
That’s wonderful news. Max is downstairs… doing “work-therapyâ€. I’ll take you to him…
Kafka and Curt sit. Otto, Dominique, Electro, Dracon, John, Eddie and Cletus STAND.
103. ELECTRO
Ms. Destine. I think I found something.
104. DRACON
Is it my jewels?
105. OTTO
It… it appears to be a spearhead. It looks quite old.
106. DOMINIQUE
Give it to me.
107. ELECTRO
Sure, sure.
108. DOMINIQUE
Yes. This is it. I think we’re done, boys.
109. OTTO
Indeed. And just as the dig brought us right up against Ravencroft’s outer wall.
110. ELECTRO
You mean this wall?!
111. NARRATOR
Electro blasts a huge hole in the wall. When the smoke clears, the Vulture is waiting. He grabs Octavius.
VULTURE STANDS.
112. VULTURE
You’re coming with me, Otto.
113. OTTO
No, no, stop. I don’t want this life anymore… I’m trying to get better!! Let me go!!
114. ELECTRO
Shut it, Doc! It’s for your own good!
115. OTTO
Nooooooo!!!!
Otto, Electro and Vulture sit.
116. NARRATOR
Vulture and Electro leave with Octavius. Dominique watches them go.
117. DOMINIQUE
Well, that was diverting. And such excellent timing as well: it’s sunset. <transformation scream>
118. NARRATOR
With the setting of the sun, Dominique Destine transforms into a gargoyle… just as Kafka and Connors enter…
Kafka and Curt STAND.
119. KAFKA / CURT
Oh my god… / What in the world?!
120. NARRATOR
Demona effortlessly slams them both against a wall and turns to the remaining inmates…
121. CURT, KAFKA
<impacts, moans>
122. DEMONA
Listen carefully, humans. For I have listened to you. I can make all your petty little dreams come true. Dominic demands respect.
123. DRACON
Yes.
124. DEMONA
John craves power.
125. JOHN
Yes!
126. DEMONA
Eddie needs hate.
127. EDDIE
YES!
128. DEMONA
And all Cletus desires is a little carnage.
129. CLETUS
Or a lot. I’m not picky.
130. DEMONA
Then stick with me, boys. Respect, power, hatred, carnage. These are things I know…
DEMONA, Cletus, Eddie, John and Dracon sit. ALAN O’NEIL and GEORGE STACY STAND.
131. NARRATOR
Later, the police arrive to investigate…
132. O’NEIL
And you never met this broad before in your life…
133. KAFKA
She had excellent references, Officer O’Neil. It’s not like I grant just anyone access to my patients…
134. O’NEIL
And you wonder why people think they belong at Rykers.
135. GEORGE
There’s nothing else you can tell me, Doctor?
136. CURT
I’m sorry, Captain Stacy, but no. It was a creature.
137. GEORGE
Like that Lizard-thing from last fall?
138. CURT
No! No. Nothing like that. More like… like those things on the news that blew up the clock tower.
139. GEORGE
You mean the 23rd Precinct.
140. CURT
Yes.
141. GEORGE
You’re saying a gargoyle kidnapped those men.
142. CURT
Yes. No. I don’t know. Can I leave now?
George, O’Neil and Kafka sit. DILBERT TRILBY and NED LEE stand.
143. NARRATOR
But outside…
144. TRILBY
Doctor Connors! Dilbert Trilby, Action News. What can you tell our audience about the escape?
145. CURT
Nothing. No comment.
146. NED
Hey, Doc. Remember me? Ned Lee from The Bugle. Can you just tell me who escaped? Doc Ock? Electro? Colonel Jupiter â€" I mean, Colonel Jameson?
147. CURT
I’m sure the police will issue a statement. Now, I have to go.
Trilby sits. CALYPSO EZILI, KRAVEN THE HUNTER and GULYADKIN STAND.
148. NARRATOR
Connors hurries away down the street, as a limousine with dark-tinted windows pulls up in front of Ravencroft.
149. CALYPSO
We are too late, my love. The Christian Totem is gone.
150. KRAVEN
Gulyadkin and I will track it for you.
151. GULYADKIN
<low lion growl>
152. CALYPSO
I’m afraid that is beyond even your impressive abilities, Sergei, my love. But I have my own ways, as you well know…
153. KRAVEN
Of course, Calypso.
154. CALYPSO
Who is that? That man trying to hail a cab?
155. KRAVEN
He is a stranger to my eyes. Yet his scent is familiar.
156. CALYPSO
His aura glows with primal energies and may be of use to us.
(to Curt)
You need a ride.
157. CURT
What? No. No, thank you. I’ll get a cab.
158. KRAVEN
She wasn’t asking.
159. CURT
<scream>
160. NARRATOR
Kraven drags Connors into the limo, which quickly drives away…
Curt, Kraven, Calypso and Gulyadkin sit.
161. NED
Hello, Robbie? I’ve got something.
J. JONAH JAMESON, JOE “ROBBIE†ROBERTSON and FREDERICK FOSWELL STAND.
162. JONAH
Is that Lee? Put him on speaker.
163. ROBBIE
Now, Jonah, stay calm…
164. JONAH
Don’t you tell me to stay calm, Joe Robertson. It’s not your son at risk. Lee, you there?! I’ll give you exactly three-point-seven seconds to tell me John’s all right!
165. NED
Wish I could, Chief. But he disappeared with the rest. There are six inmaâ€" uh, patients missing. It’s not clear if they busted out or were kidnapped.
166. JONAH
Well, of course John was kidnapped. You think my son would--
167. ROBBIE
Ned, give me the whole list.
168. JONAH
Who cares about the listâ€"
169. ROBBIE
It could provide a lead to John.
170. NED
Doc Ock. Electro. John. Uh… let’s see. Edward Brock Jr., Cletus Kasady and Dominic Dracon.
171. FOSWELL
Dominic Dracon? The old mob boss? There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.
172. JONAH
Foswell, you know that world! Find out where Dracon might have gone!
173. FOSWELL
You got it, J.J.
174. JONAH
Lee, you stick to the damn super-villain angle! Ock, Electro. What’s their next move?!
175. NED
Right, boss!
176. JONAH
Robbie, I want every available man on this. No, damnit, I want every man, woman and child on this, available or not. Call Parker. Put Benny the copyboy on it. But Ms. Brant on it. I want John Jameson safely back in his mother’s arms in six-point… six-point…
177. ROBBIE
It’s okay, Jonah. We’re on it.
178. JONAH
Good. Good. I’ll… I’ll hit the streets myself. I’m still the best damn reporter in New York City! Just have to make a call first. Well, what are you all waiting for, get out! Out!
Robbie, Ned and Foswell sit.
179. JONAH (CONT)
Hello, is this WVRN? Travis Marshall, please. Travis? It’s Jonah. I got a lead for you on the Ravencroft thing.
(pauses, listening)
Whaddayou care why I’m helping the competition?! I know I hate television! You don’t have to tell me that! I’m not trying to sandbag you, damnit, I… I’m just trying to find my son… any way I can.
Jonah sits. SPIDER-MAN STANDS.
180. NARRATOR
That night finds Spider-Man swinging through the city…
181. PETER (VO)
If I didn’t know better, I’d think Harry was trying to torture me and Gwen. Then again, M.J. is quite the consolation prize. Ah, man, what am I saying? I’m in love with Gwen. Gwen. Gwendolyn Stacy. Just have to get through the next few weeks and then Harry’ll be in a better place, and she and I--
182. NARRATOR
Pete’s ringtone plays Itsy-Bitsy Spider.
183. SPIDER-MAN
Hello?
Robbie STANDS.
184. ROBBIE
Pete. Joe Robertson. There’s been an incident at Ravencroft.
Robbie sits.
185. SPIDER-MAN
Uh huh… uh huh… Wait, who’s missing? Uh oh. Him too? Oh, crap. Sorry, I mean-- What?! Seriously?! Uh, right. Yeah, I’ll keep my eyes open. Camera lens at the ready. Thanks for the heads up. Bye.
(to himself)
Whoa. At least this day can’t get any worse!
SMUGGLER #1 stands.
186. SMUGGLER #1
What the hell are those things?!
187. SPIDER-MAN
When am I gonna learn not to say that out loud?
188. NARRATOR
Spidey swings down to find two men in a van being attacked by two gargoyles, Obsidiana and Zafiro…
ZAFIRO and OBSIDIANA STAND.
189. SPIDER-MAN
Hi there. Hate to interrupt, but this lady-esque-blue-creature-thing matches the description of another lady-esque-blue-creature-thing who just busted some folks out of Ravenâ€"
190. ZAFIRO
What is he babbling about?
191. OBSIDIANA
I have no idea. I sense no connection between him and the source of the disturbance. But these two…
192. SMUGGLER #1
Keep her away from us!!
193. SPIDER-MAN
You see, now I’m on the horns of a dilemma… Uh, no offense. It’s just an expression; I wasn’t referring to your rather striking… Never mind. See in this particular Spider-Man’s experience, when genetic misfits attack ordinary human beings, I’m gonna have to side with the humans.
194. ZAFIRO
Qué sorpresa. A human with no knowledge of the situation leaping to defend one of his own.
195. NARRATOR
Zafiro attacks Spidey.
196. ZAFIRO, SPIDER-MAN
<ad lib battle efforts, impacts>
197. NARRATOR
Obsidiana rips open the top of the van.
198. OBSIDIANA
<rip effort>
199. SMUGGLER #1
Stay back!
200. NARRATOR
The two humans open fire on her, forcing her to leap away… The van peels out. Obsidiana tries to follow, but Spidey webs her wings together.
Smuggler #1 sits.
201. OBSIDIANA
Por favor! You don’t understand the powers that are gathering!!
202. SPIDER-MAN
And you’re the one doing the Gathering, I take it!
203. OBSIDIANA
No!
204. ZAFIRO
Enough!
205. SPIDER-MAN
<impact grunt>
206. NARRATOR
Zafiro slams Spidey into a wall. By the time the web-slinger recovers, the gargoyles are gone…
Zafiro and Obsidiana sit.
207. SPIDER-MAN
<groan> For a guy with no legs, that snake-thing can move…
Spider-Man sits. George and MARIA CHAVEZ STAND.
208. NARRATOR
Not far away…
209. GEORGE
Captain Chavez.
210. CHAVEZ
Captain Stacy. What brings you to what’s left of the 23rd?
211. GEORGE
It’s the Ravencroft thing. I’ve got corroborating witnesses telling me a gargoyle was involved.
212. CHAVEZ
<sigh> I miss the days when being a cop didn’t involve a working knowledge of The Twilight Zone.
213. GEORGE
Welcome to the Freak Show.
214. CHAVEZ
Anyway, as it happens, the Gargoyle Taskforce is meeting right now. First trailer on the right. Ask for Bluestone.
Chavez sits. MATT BLUESTONE, MORGAN MORGAN, MARGOT YALE and Elisa STAND.
215. NARRATOR
Minutes later…
216. GEORGE
And that’s all I know…
217. MATT
Well, that is interesting, or, you know… really, really scary.
218. MORGAN
I’ll say, Detective. With or without a gargoyle, I’ve heard Ock and Electro are bad news. And that Cletus Kasady: he killed five people before--
219. MARGOT
Forget Kasady. Any idiot can bring a serial killer down. It’s the gargoyle we should be concerned with. It’s what I’ve been saying all along! Those monsters are dangerous!
220. MATT
I think what A.D.A. Yale is saying, Captain, is that the Taskforce is on it. We’ll let you know if we hear anything. And we’ll be checking in with all our sources, won’t we, Detective?
221. ELISA
And fast.
Elisa, Matt, Margot, Morgan and George sit. Smuggler #1 and Demona STAND.
222. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, a van with a torn up roof pulls up to a Gramercy Park Mansion… The driver speaks into the intercom…
223. SMUGGLER #1
Longinus sent me.
224. DEMONA
Leave the package. Then take your money and go. While you still can.
225. SMUGGLER #1
Geez, who lives here? Dracula’s daughter?
Smuggler #1 sits. Eddie, John and Cletus STAND.
226. NARRATOR
Demona collects her package.
227. EDDIE
The old guy’s asleep. What’s that?
228. DEMONA
A simple wooden shaft. The prize of Adolph Hitler’s personal collection. After his… demise, his remaining followers smuggled it to Brazil. I paid handsomely to have it smuggled to me.
229. EDDIE
Why? I mean sure, it’s the shaft of a spear. Completes the set with that arrowhead you took from Ravencroft. But why do we care?
230. DEMONA
Here’s why.
231. NARRATOR
Demona joins the spear and spearhead together. Instantly, it radiates incredible power.
232. DEMONA
The Holy Lance. The Spear of Destiny. The weapon that pierced the side of the Christ. Do you still want power, John? This is power.
233. JOHN
Give it to me. Give it!
234. DEMONA
No. This power is mine. But I will use it to give you back your own…
235. NARRATOR
She points the Spear at John Jameson. The magic surrounds him and transforms him into Colonel Jupiter!
236. COLONEL JUPITER
<transformation scream> Yes! The power is mine! I am Colonel Jupiter!
237. DEMONA
For what that’s worth… Now for Eddie.
238. VENOM
<transformation scream>
239. DEMONA
Happy now?
240. VENOM
Extremely. We are Venom again.
241. DEMONA
And what about you, Cletus?
242. CLETUS
(pointing at Venom)
I’ll have what he’s having…
243. DEMONA
As you wish… Carnage.
244. CARNAGE
<transformation scream>
245. VENOM
All right, Demona. You’re the Mirror Universe Wizard of Oz. But what now?
246. DEMONA
Mine is the Power. But I still require the Kingdom and the Glory. This is only the first act, humans… or whatever you are now. The main event is still to come…
Demona, VENOM, CARNAGE and COLONEL JUPITER sit.
END ACT ONE
TOMORROW: ACT TWO...
G2008 Radio Play
G2008 Radio Play (Chapter VII)
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE STAND.
13. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 2, 6:46AM EST. Scarab Corp. Coldsteel looks on, as David Xanatos installs a diamond inside Coyote 5.0.
14. COLDSTEEL
And what would that be?
15. XANATOS
It’s called the Coyote Diamond…
16. NARRATOR
Chapter Seven: The Rock.
17. XANATOS
The stone’s flawless surfaces and clarity increase the speed of--
18. COLDSTEEL
I’m sorry I asked.
19. XANATOS
My apologies. I’m sure you’re much more interested in your own situation.
20. COLDSTEEL
I was under the impression I had free will.
21. XANATOS
And you do. I promise summoning you was a one-time event. On the other hand, your unit does include a built-in tracking device… which I’m happy to deactivate…
22. COLDSTEEL
Permanently?
23. XANATOS
Permanently. All I ask in return is help on one small errand. Are we agreed?
24. COLDSTEEL
We are agreed.
25. COYOTE
Excellent.
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE sit. TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA STAND.
26. NARRATOR
3:52PM EST. The Labyrinth. Talon cradles Maggie the Cat, as Dr. Jay Sato examines her. Elisa Maza looks on.
27. TALON
How is she, Doc?
28. SATO
Well, her pulse is fine, and her injuries seem to be healing nicely…
29. MAGGIE
See, Derek, I said you were worried over nothing.
30. SATO
But I’m a surgeon. Treating someone in Maggie’s… “condition†is really not my area.
31. ELISA
Not anyone’s, Dr. Sato. Anyone we dare trust anyway.
32. SATO
It’s as if you’ve revealed a new world to me…
33. ELISA
Yep, you’re a medical pioneer.
34. SATO
Pioneer or not, she needs an O.B.
TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA sit. Macbeth, BROOKLYN, GOLIATH, BROADWAY, OWEN & Xanatos STAND.
35. NARRATOR
4:50PM EST. Eyrie Building. As the sun sets, Owen Burnett and Macbeth wait for Goliath to wake. NOVEMBER 2, 5:12PM EST. Inside the Great Hall, Macbeth addresses Goliath, Brooklyn, Hudson, Angela, Broadway, Bronx and Lexington.
36. MACBETH
It’s called the Stone of Destiny. For centuries the kings of Scotland were crowned upon it at Scone…
37. BROOKLYN
Magic talking stone. We’ve heard of it.
38. MACBETH
Yes, well, the English stole it. Now, after eight hundred years, it’s finally being returned. I’m asking for your help to ensure it gets to Scotland safely.
39. GOLIATH
Don’t you have… minions… for this?
40. MACBETH
We’ve parted ways. Please, Goliath. Many â€" including your landlord â€" would stop at nothing to get the Stone.
41. GOLIATH
I have been wounded twice in one week. I am healed â€" but not whole. But my second, Brooklyn, can lead Broadway, Lexington and Angela to join your quest.
42. BROADWAY
Yeah, we’re goin’ to Scotland!!
43. MACBETH
Well, England to start with--
44. BROOKLYN
I don’t know, Goliath, if you’re recovering, maybe this is the wrong time to send me overseas.
45. GOLIATH
Ah… Yes. You are needed here. Hudson may lead this expedition.
46. NARRATOR
Owen, watching the exchange by closed circuit, talks on the phone to Xanatos, who’s about to board a private plane.
47. OWEN
Yes, Macbeth, Hudson, Broadway, Angela and Lexington… Shall I attempt to stop them?
48. XANATOS
That won’t be necessary. I believe I’ve planned for this contingency.
49. NARRATOR
Back in the Great Hall, Angela whispers in Broadway’s ear.
50. BROADWAY
Uh… yeah… Manhattan’s dangerous right now. Me and Angela’ll stay too. To help Brooklyn.
51. BROOKLYN
That’s great. Thanks.
Macbeth, Brooklyn, Goliath, Broadway, Owen & Xanatos sit. SHARI STANDS.
52. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 3, 5:29AM EST. Nightstone Unlimited. Shari and Thailog are in Dominique Destine’s office.
53. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of two brothers who both loved the same female. And though all strife comes to an end one way or another, some conflicts refuse to stay dead. Xanatos and Demona used science and sorcery to create a monster from fragments of all three gargoyles, their bodies and souls. But in the end, the souls were segregated into Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel. It’s really a timeless love story.
SHARI sits. Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON STAND.
54. NARRATOR
3:00PM GMT. London. A private jet lands. Customs Officials greet Macbeth, as workers wheel two large crates from the plane’s hold.
55. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Lennox Macduff?
56. MACBETH
Yes.
57. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Welcome to England, sir. Anything to declare?
58. MACBETH
Works of art for my home in Berkeley Square.
59. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Have to have a look in, sir.
60. MACBETH
Of course.
61. NARRATOR
The crates are opened, revealing Lexington and Hudson, frozen in stone. 4:30PM GMT. Macbeth waits on the roof of his Berkeley Square Townhouse for Hudson and Lexington to wake. The sun sets. 5:07PM. It’s past sunset. Hudson and Lex are STILL frozen in stone. 6:15PM. Night. No change. 7:01PM. Macbeth grows concerned. 7:45PM. Hudson and Lex finally wake.
62. LEXINGTON, HUDSON
<awakening roars>
63. LEXINGTON
Whoa, I don’t feel so hot… and look how dark it is? How long have we been asleep?
64. MACBETH
Welcome, lad, to the wonderful world of jetlag. Don’t worry. You’ve got ten days to adjust before they move the Stone.
Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON sit. Shari, INTERCOM & VINNIE STAND.
65. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 4, 5:30AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog soaks in a jacuzzi. Shari sits nearby.
66. SHARI
The story is told -- though who can say if it be true-- of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham… who fled the wrath of his brother Esau to a place he would call Bethel, where he laid his head upon a stone and had a wondrous vision!
67. NARRATOR
5:35AM EST. J.F.K.
68. INTERCOM
Flight 994, now boarding all rows…
69. VINNIE
Can you believe it? I’m goin’ to Japan!
Shari, Intercom & Vinnie sit. Goliath & Elisa STAND.
70. NARRATOR
9:48PM EST. Goliath’s Tower.
71. GOLIATH
About Halloween… I will not hold you to words spoken when you believed my life hung in the balance.
72. ELISA
Even if I want to be held?
73. GOLIATH
I know you care for me. That is not at issue. But what of the things I cannot give you… picnics… normalcy…?
74. ELISA
We can have a picnic anytime… and normalcy’s so over-rated.
75. NARRATOR
She runs her fingers through his hair. He takes her into his arms and kisses her.
Goliath & Elisa sit. Shari STANDS.
76. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 5, 5:31AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari look out over the city.
77. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" that Gathelus, a son of the king of Athens, won many victories for the Pharaoh of Egypt, who rewarded the prince with the hand of his beloved: Pharaoh’s own daughter, Scota. But Gathelus had also befriended Moses, the Hebrew, who warned his young friends of the plagues to befall the Kingdom of the Nile. Gathelus and Scota determined to leave Egypt, and Moses entrusted them with Jacob’s Pillow, the Hebrews’ sacred stone…
78. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 6, 5:32AM EST. ST. DAMIEN’S CATHEDRAL. Thailog, Shari and Brentwood search for something.
79. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" that Gathelus fled Egypt with his wife and the Stone of the Hebrews. He sought landfall on the rocky shores of Samothrace, for Scota was heavy with child and could go no farther. Still destiny blessed them with fine twin sons…
80. NARRATOR
6:00AM EST. Thailog flies Shari across the city. Brentwood follows.
81. SHARI
Gathelus and his family would wander the globe for two years before finding a home on the Iberian Peninsula in a place they named the Port of Gathelus, or Portugal. By this time the family had grown: the Athenian prince and Egyptian princess now had four healthy boys in their care not to mention one large Stone.
82. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 7, 5:33AM EST. Thailog and Shari begin a game of chess.
83. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" that after the death of her beloved Gathelus, Scota departed Portugal with her eight sons… only to lose five of the boys at sea… while Scota herself and another son died warrior’s deaths upon landing in Ireland. But her eldest boy, Eremon, and her youngest, Eber Finn, survived, and Eremon was crowned king upon the Stone at Tara.
Shari sits. Xanatos & FOX stand.
84. NARRATOR
2:18PM GMT. Mayfair. Xanatos takes Alexander from Fox.
85. XANATOS
Darling, if you like the shoes, buy them…
86. FOX
The black manolos in the window… do you have them in a size nine? Lovely. Wrap them up, please.
87. NARRATOR
2:45PM GMT. Fox exits the store.
88. FOX
Mission accomplished.
89. NARRATOR
7:19PM GMT. Fox admires her new shoes in the full-length mirror of her hotel room. Xanatos admires the shoebox.
90. XANATOS
Darling? Do you still need this shoebox… or might I dispose of it?
Xanatos & Fox sit. Shari & THAILOG STAND.
91. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 8, 5:34AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari continue their chess game.
92. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Moses, who led the Hebrews out of Egypt and into the desert… bringing forth water from Jacob’s Pillow to quench their--
93. THAILOG
You said Moses gave the Stone to Gathelus and Scota before leading the Hebrews out of Egypt!
94. SHARI
The story is told…
95. THAILOG
<pause> Though who can say if it be true? Right. Continue.
96. SHARI
The Hebrews passed the Stone down the centuries, until the prophet Jeremiah offered it in dowry to King Eochaid of Ireland when he wed Tamar Tea Tephi, Princess of Judah. Eochaid ensconced the Stone at Tara and dubbed it Lia Fáil.
97. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 9, 5:36AM EST.
98. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Cu Chullain, the Hero of Ulster, who championed Lugaid Red-Stripe for king. But when the Lia Fáil would not cry to confirm Lugaid, Cu Chullain was enraged, striking with Gae Bolga, the Spear of Light, and splitting the Stone of Destiny forever!
99. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 10, 5:37AM EST. Shari captures Thailog’s white knight with her black bishop.
100. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of young Prince Fergus of Ireland, who carried half Cu Chullain’s handiwork to Argyll in what men now call Scotland to found a kingdom called Dalriada. Though a castle called Carbonek found him instead, bringing the Priest-King Pelles and the Archmage Merlin and their request to borrow the Stone of Destiny for a purpose of their own. A purpose fulfilled in Londontown by a sword clep’d Excalibur in a stone clep’d Lia Fáil drawn forth by a boy clep’d Arthur.
101. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 11, 5:38AM EST. Thailog tips over one of Shari’s black rooks with his white bishop.
102. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Saint Columba, he who tamed the monster of Loch Ness, before returning to the island of Iona, where Merlin and Pelles had brought the Stone once it had served their purposes. And where Columba laid down his head upon Jacob’s Pillow and breathed his last.
103. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 12, 5:39AM EST. Shari’s Black Queen is lined up to capture Thailog’s White King.
104. SHARI
Check.
105. THAILOG
<growl>
106. SHARI
Would you prefer I lost on purpose?
107. THAILOG
I’d fire you if you did. Don’t you have a story to tell?
108. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Kenneth MacAlpin, scion of Fergus, who united the Kingdoms of Scotland and was crowned High King upon the Stone at Scone. As would all the Heirs of Scota â€" for the next four hundred years.
COLDFIRE STANDS.
109. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 12, 10:00PM GMT. David Xanatos presses a button on a remote control. NOVEMBER 13, 6:01AM GMT+8. TIBET. Inside the old cave, Coldstone and Coldfire stand over Master Dawa and Sangpo. All react to a noise.
110. COLDFIRE
I believe… I believe I can find him…
Coldfire sits.
111. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 13, 5:40AM EST. NIGHTSTONE.
112. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Edward the First of England, the Hammer of the Scots, who sicced his mighty Warwolf on his neighbors to the north and took as prize the Stone of Scone, which he installed in the Coronation Chair at Westminster Abbey, where it has crowned the kings and queens of England down to this very day…
Shari & Thailog sit. Lexington, Macbeth, Hudson, Arthur, GRIFF, AMP & COCO STAND.
113. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 13, 5:32PM GMT. Hudson and Lex are atop Victoria Tower. Macbeth is below, in front of Westminster Abbey.
114. LEXINGTON
All clear. No sign of trouble.
115. MACBETH
Not expecting trouble tonight. They’re only moving the Stone from the Coronation Chair to the Lantern. It won’t leave the Abbey until tomorrow.
116. HUDSON
Aye, and the human security is tight as a drum. I’m nae convinced you could break in there with a battering ram.
117. MACBETH
You’d be surprised.
118. NARRATOR
11:46PM GMT.
119. LEXINGTON
<yawn> Still nothing to report. Who exactly are we expecting?
120. MACBETH
Anyone. Everyone. Just stay alert…
121. NARRATOR
Macbeth spots a shadowy figure and pursues it down into a London Underground Station…
122. MACBETH
I’m probably on a wild goose chase, lads. But in case I’m not, you’d better head this… way…
123. LEXINGTON
That could be a problem…
124. NARRATOR
Arthur Pendragon puts Excalibur to Macbeth’s throat. Meanwhile, on Victoria Tower, Hudson and Lex are surrounded by gargoyles.
125. ARTHUR
By the blade of Excalibur, what are you up to now, Macbeth?
126. MACBETH
King Arthur?! I’m here to protect the Stone of Destiny!
127. ARTHUR
Then our two quests are one and the same!
128. MACBETH
Aye…
129. ARTHUR, MACBETH (UNISON)
The gargoyles!!
130. MACBETH
They’ll be at each other’s throats!!
131. GRIFF
Hudson! Lexington! Bloody lovely to see you again!
132. LEXINGTON
You too, Griff!
133. HUDSON
Aye, lad. The badduns’ll have no chance at that Stone now!
134. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 14, 5:28AM. Macbeth radios Lex.
135. MACBETH
It’ll soon be dawn. You and Hudson go with Griff. Arthur and I will stand vigil through the day.
Arthur & Macbeth sit.
136. NARRATOR
5:33AM GMT. Griff, Hudson, Lex and the other two gargoyles glide over London.
137. LEXINGTON
Are we headed to Soho? Goliath said you have a store there…
138. GRIFF
We do. But I thought I’d take you home instead. To our clan--
139. AMP
To Knight’s Spur!
140. COCO
You know, Griff, I don’t believe we’ve been properly introduced to your Yank friends…
141. HUDSON
<Hmph> Watch who you’re callin’ a Yank, lass…
142. GRIFF
Where are my manners? Hudson, Lexington, this is Constance.
143. COCO
My friends call me Coco.
144. GRIFF
And this is Staghart.
145. AMP
My friends call me Amp!
146. COCO
Nobody calls you Amp, luv.
147. LEXINGTON
I’ll call you Amp.
148. NARRATOR
5:40AM.
149. GRIFF
Welcome to Knight’s Spur…
150. NARRATOR
7:20AM. Atop Knight’s Spur, Old Pog, Hudson, Griff, Lex, Amp, Coco and Lunette sleep as stone.
Hudson, Lexington, Griff, Amp & Coco sit. Arthur & Macbeth STAND.
151. NARRATOR
7:48AM. Macbeth and Arthur sip coffee outside a Nightstone’s café.
152. ARTHUR
…Mortally wounded in 542. So they shipped me off to some magic hill and put me to sleep for a thousand four hundred fifty-three years.
153. MACBETH
Sounds lovely.
154. ARTHUR
And you?
155. MACBETH
Deal with a demon in 1040. Officially died in 1057. Been sleepwalking for nine hundred thirty-nine years.
156. ARTHUR
<pause> Guess I got the better bargain.
157. MACBETH
Ach, I try not to dwell these days. So here’s to the immortals. There aren’t many like us…
Arthur & Macbeth sit. Shari STANDS.
158. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 14, 5:42AM EST. NIGHTSTONE. Shari places her black knight in front of Thailog’s white knight.
159. SHARI
The story is told â€" though who can say if it be true â€" of Robert the Bruce of Scotland, who defeated the English at Bannockburn with the help of an Irish ally, Cormac MacCarthy. With the victory, came a prize: a fragment of the Fatal Stone that England had taken from Scone. This fragment, the Bruce gave to MacCarthy, whose descendents had it installed at Blarney Castle, where it is said to grant the gift of gab. I’ve kissed it myself a time or two…
Shari sits. Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur STAND.
160. NARRATOR
NOVEMBER 14, 6:32PM GMT. Knight’s Spur. Hudson, Macbeth and Arthur confer in a book-lined study.
161. HUDSON
Lex, Griff, Constance and Staghart sent you home to rest then…
162. MACBETH
Aye, Hudson. We’ll catch a few hours sleep then head back out. But you…?
163. HUDSON
I had some questions for the Pendragon. Weren’t you on a quest to find your wizard?
164. ARTHUR
Indeed. And Sir Griff and I searched for Merlin in all the obvious places. But to no gain. So I’ve been “doing research†on Merlin… and on myself.
165. NARRATOR
Hudson examines a copy of Le Morte D’Arthur by Thomas Malory.
166. HUDSON
So many books… are any of them true?
167. ARTHUR
All things are true… few things are accurate.
168. MACBETH
Aye. No bloody kidding.
169. NARRATOR
Hudson contemplates this.
Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur sit.
Tomorrow, Chapter VIII...
Robert G. writes...
Hey Greg! I just started re-watching Gargoyles and I've got a question for you. Now, Elisa really bought into the whole idea of Gargoyles a little easy and the Gargoyles really adapted to their new lives (and the drastically different version of the English language) really quickly. I know it's a cartoon and we're supposed to be suspended in a bit of disbelief, but looking back, do you ever wish you could have developed these things a bit more?
Greg responds...
No.
Gargoyleslady writes...
Hi, Greg! I've got a question about Broadway. In Deadly Force, did Broadway feel so guilty about shooting Elisa that he felt like throwing up?
Greg responds...
I'll leave that to your interpretation.
David writes...
Big fan of the show. I've always wondered, how Elisa can afford such a nice apartment. I know she's a detective but no way can a detective make that much money to afford that?
Greg responds...
Your premise is faulty. Stating that there's "no way" she can afford that is patently false. We don't know if she owns, rents or sub-lets. We don't know how she got the place. We don't know who had it before. We don't know what it looked like when she got it, whether it was a disaster that she cleaned up or an empty industrial loft. We don't know if the building is a co-op, rent-controlled or rent-stabilized. We don't have enough information to state what you've stated.
Derek writes...
Why did Thailog not clone Angela? I know in the past you've said that Demona never released the mosquito to gain Angela's dna and that's why. But Thailog could have easily have had his own mosquito(sounds so silly when I say it like that) and got dna samples from the clan himself like he did from Demona and Eliza. Wouldn't he have wanted the additionally manpower? He was planning on betraying Demona anyway that's why he created Delilah. Why respect Demona wishes with Angela? Did he think the other male clones would be easier to control without another female gargoyle?
Greg responds...
Your premise is incorrect.
When would Thailog have had the opportunity to gather Angela's DNA (before Clan-Building, I mean)? He got Elisa's DNA from one of Demona's mosquitos. We saw that in the episode. One presumes he got Demona's the same way. That is, the mosquitos were released and took a blood sample. It's not like Demona could tell them whom to bite. Her only control was to NOT release a mosquito. So when Angela was around, she didn't release one.
Bela writes...
Greetings from Spain, Greg :)
I've been gliding through the archives in the hopes of finding something, anything, that can help me remember what my absolutely vital question was las time Ask Greg was open (Ask Greg closed before I could submit it). I'm sure it was something super boring about insights and Gargoyle psychology (especially Goliath's, I find him complex and amazing) but well. I'll have to stick to the rant that went with it and spare you the question :D.
You've heard all kinds of praises and ear-candies about you and the show by now, so I really don't want to be boring and repetitive.But the fact is that more than twelve years after the show was first aired here, I'm still as hooked as I ever was. If not more. I was in college then (imagine, I'll love watching cartoons till the last day :D) and I couldn't believe how good that episode of this Gargoyles thing I randomly caught one day was. I ended up rushing out of classes for the rest of the term, not to miss a single episode more.
You've explained before how you really feel that the story it's out there somewhere, and you tapped into it, somehow. I understand what you mean. It feels that way. Exactly that way.
The characters are so dimensional that they make the story so intense and...well, real. To the point that I'm not only positive about it being the best tv show I've ever seen, but also feels like one of the best readings. Your story is better than 80% of the books I've read in the last, say, 12 years. One almost yearns for something like Gargoyles happening to the world, with the same intensity which half the female population around the world dreams of finding Mr. Darcy... And that is something I truly thank you for.
Goliath and Elisa deserve a special mention. I don't think I've fallen so in love with a fictional couple since..well..Mr. Darcy here and Elizabeth (mm..actually I think I might have subconsciously matched the two brooding heros with the two strong-willed women, even though their stories are so different..). No wonder Elisa couldn't get herself off Goliath's hook and viceversa. And by the way, going through the archives, I read something about clan wind ceremonies on Elisa's dying. I'm amazed, I couldn't even picture it. It's so sad, one or the other dying, that even if intellectually it's something obvious, I really don't want to know that far. Pretty childish of me I guess but, well. I want some things eternal :D
For a Gargoyles unconditional, I guess I was born in the wrong country, lol. But one day, who knows! I just hope Gatherings are still happening.
Thank you so much, Greg, for a lot of reasons. Not only for the show and the comics and being here to feed the beasts from time to time, but for your dedication. For not giving up. For believing in what you do, and therefore allowing some of us to go along for the ride, and end up believing in what WE do (doomed-storyteller here :))
Wish you all the best, Greg, and I really hope you can find soon a way to let the story go on. The clan would want you to ;)
BeLa xx
PS: Just so you know, I showed Awakenings to Tania, a dear friend, and she watched the entire show, plus TGC (which she didn't really enjoy as much, by the way) in less than ten days.
PPS: I hope my english was understandable enough, by the way!
Greg responds...
Hey, I'll take all the Jane Austen comparisons (particularly favorable ones) that you want to dish. I'm a big fan. And I'm sure she was (at least) an indirect influence on my work.
And your English is just great. Thanks for all the kind words.
rick writes...
Dont think Im perverted for asking this but after seeing Goliath and elisa's relationship on the show I just got really curious,is it possible for gargoyles to mate with humans not reproduce just simply mate.
Greg responds...
Sure.
Heather writes...
In the series Elisa's hair color seems to be dark blue, although it is black considering her African and Native American ancestory. Is the reason you did this because of the series' generally dark color scheme and the probability of it getting lost in the background if it were black?
Or do you just like the color blue? :P
Greg responds...
There's kind of a tradition in comics and cartoons to use blue to highlight black hair. You can't highlight black with black. And lightening the black, i.e. making it grey, makes a character look old. If you use brown, then the character's hair looks brown, not black. For most people, the dark blue sheen on black hair still reads as black hair.
Gargoyleslady writes...
I have a question about Elisa and I did check the archives before asking. Where in Manhattan is Elisa's apartment located?
Greg responds...
We generally thought of it as being in Soho.
Landon Thomas writes...
In 'The Mirror', I appreciate the real-world reason why the human-form Manhattan Clan gargoyles look the way they do, namely that they more or less represent their respective voice actors. But I also like the cohesiveness it gives the Gargverse when you give a canon/in-show reason for something. In that spirit, when Goliath turns into a human analogue, why does he have darker skin--or appear to be of a different racial group--than the others who appear to be more Scottish?
Greg responds...
Elisa.
Matthew writes...
I've hold off asking this question since I figured I'd fine out in the comic, but now I will. What will Matt think of Elisa's romantic relationship with Goliath?
Will he be okay with it? Will he disgusted by it? Will he think it weird but none of his business?
Greg responds...
You'll just have to wait and (hopefully someday) see.
Ricky writes...
Hi Greg,
My favorite episode is "The Mirror," not just because the acting, animation and writing are all so great, but I loved seeing Elisa as a gargoyle, and ever since I've been dying for more. Seeing as though the license hasn't been renewed, I realize it could be a while before we get new stories, but I'm not losing faith. So, I don't want to ask if it's possible that we see her as a gargoyle again, cause I'm pretty sure almost anything is possible in the gargoyles universe, so I'll put it differently:
1. How likely is it that we'll see Elisa as a gargoyle again?
2. I don't expect you to be too specific, but how far into the future (in their world, not ours) would it be? Very far in the future? Not too far? The near future?
Also, if you don't wanna answer I'd understand that too. Thanks a lot, keep up the great work!
Greg responds...
Does Delilah count?
Chris writes...
What would Demona do if she knew how Elisa Maza stopped Macbeth from killing her, and how she told Angela that she was her mother when Goliath refused to do so?
Greg responds...
Let's find out...
Someday.
alex31 writes...
is eliza like a surrogate mother to the trio?
Greg responds...
More like a big sister.
Kenneth Chisholm writes...
Pardon me if this has been asked before, I've had no luck finding an equivalent answered question in the archives
How precedented is something like Goliath and Elisa's relationship in the history of Scottish gargoyles? The casual acceptance of it by the rest of the Manhattan Clan obviously suggests some comfort with the concept, but what was it like in the 900s?
For that matter, how do the various other Clan cultures feel about this kind of thing?
Greg responds...
It is HIGHLY unusual, beyond rare. Credit the acceptance of it by the Manhattan Clan to a certain pragmatism that goes with (initially) perceiving their situation as unique, the last gargoyles -- all male -- except Demona, who disqualified herself by, you know, trying to kill them all multiple times. Throw in Elisa, who she was and what she became to the entire clan, and how often she proved herself, etc. And acceptance just came...
Kelsea writes...
Forgive me if this question has been asked before. Which episode does Elisa first show up in?
Greg responds...
Episode #1, i.e. "Awakening, Part One"
Anonymous writes...
Do goliath and Elisa get married
Greg responds...
We'll have to wait and see...
Anonymous writes...
What episdoe does Elisa get a shiny badge?
Greg responds...
Uh... she's had her badge as long as we've known her. Or am I not understanding your question?
Confused, Frustrated, but Ecstatic writes...
First of all thank you for creating this show. Second of all, you're the creator of this show! You came up with a cartoon about living stone and more than ten years later people are being loyal to this to the tomb. How is it that something others would see as an impossible achievement can become a testament to your immense creativity and yet you can't find a way to get Elisa to conceive Goliath's child? Forget about the impossibilities and the ethics about such a thing. How many people told you it was impossible for "Gargoyles" to ever become something? Ethics and biology? Please. We're talking about a 2-dimensional world where rocks come to life at night after 1000 years. Biology, really, that's what's stopping you?
You are a genius. Greg.
Greg responds...
Uh... well, when you put it that way... then I guess it's creative integrity that's stopping me. Such as it is.
FEBRUARY 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 5th...
1996
Halcyon Renard returns to Manhattan and contacts Matt Bluestone, informing him of Goliath and Elisa Maza's situation. Matt passes the word on to Hudson and the Trio, who inform Talon. Matt also attempts to cover for Elisa with her parents and Captain Maria Chavez.
FEBRUARY 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
February 3rd...
1995
It is still snowing as an armed assailant robs Mr. Jaffe's local grocery store, a childhood haunt of Matt Bluestone's. Goliath accompanies Elisa Maza on her shift, gliding above her car. David Xanatos and Demona revivify Coldstone from pieces of Othello, Desdemona and Iago. Coldstone makes a splashy public entrance in Time Square, where he's confronted by Goliath and the Trio. When Demona, Xanatos and a Steel Clan robot join Coldstone, the battle moves to the George Washington Bridge, where Elisa, Hudson and Bronx soon join the fray. Coldstone sacrifices himself to save Goliath and winds up dormant at the bottom of the river. Goliath and the other gargoyles rededicate themselves to protecting all of Manhattan.
JANUARY 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 29th...
1995
It starts to snow. Elisa Maza gives Derek Maza a recording of Fox's revelations. The gargoyles hide the helicopter - permanently. Jackal and Hyena are arrested on charges of attempted murder.
1996
Rory Dugan wakes, unsure if his previous night's adventures were a dream. That night, he and Molly enter the Cairn, and Rory recovers Gae Bolga, the Spear of Light. The Spear transforms Rory, revealing he is the reincarnation of the ancient Irish hero Cu Chullain. In order to defeat him, Molly becomes first the Banshee and then the death-worm, Crom-Cruach. With Bronx's help, Cu Chullain defeats Crom-Cruach, banishing the Banshee. Cu Chullain transforms back into Rory, but he keeps possession of Gae Bolga and will remain the Hero of Ulster. The travelers return to Avalon, where it is morning. The gargoyles turn to stone.
JANUARY 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 28th...
1995
Lexington begins to repair Jackal's helicopter. Elisa Maza confronts Fox in prison. Fox reveals that David Xanatos created the Pack, and is using Jackal and Hyena to cement Derek Maza's loyalty. Elisa records Fox's conversation. Derek flies Xanatos to his upstate retreat, 'Xanadu'. Again, Jackal and Hyena attack. And again, the Manhattan Clan intervenes, using the repaired helicopter to defeat and capture the twins.
1996
In the morning, Rory Dugan returns home and argues with his father, Mr. Dugan. That evening at sunset, Elisa Maza, Goliath and Angela wake up to find themselves trapped inside Cairn na Chullain by the Banshee, who is convinced they have been sent by Oberon to bring her back to Avalon for the Gathering. Rory, looking for Molly, encounters Bronx instead. When the Banshee realizes that Rory and "the Great Beast" are together, she appears to Rory and lures him away from Bronx.
JANUARY 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 27th...
1995
Derek Maza starts working for David Xanatos. Jackal and Hyena attack them, but the Trio intervenes. Lexington manages to land Jackal's helicopter and hide it.
1996
In Ireland, Rory Dugan and his girlfriend Molly steal a jacket from a local shop and manage to elude the police - just as the four travelers arrive from Avalon. The Banshee quickly captures Elisa Maza, Angela and Goliath.
JANUARY 26
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 26th...
1994
The Emir's son is killed in a pointless car accident.
1995
Fox orders Hyena and Jackal to assassinate David Xanatos. And that morning, Derek Maza decides to quit the NYPD and accept Xanatos' job offer.
1996
At midnight, the Emir summons and imprisons Anubis, the Egyptian god of death. Elisa Maza and the gargoyles attempt to intervene but are captured. The Emir tries to force Anubis to bring his late son back to life. When Anubis refuses, the Emir attempts to become an avatar of Anubis' power. But Jackal intercepts the spell and becomes the Avatar of Anubis instead. Mad with power, Jackal destroys Coyote 3.0 and brings death to an entire Egyptian town, before the Emir recasts his spell and becomes the new Avatar. The Emir now understands that death cannot play favorites, and he destroys the temple to prevent anyone else from ever gaining access to Anubis' power. Elisa and the gargoyles spend the day outside the Sphinx. Then they return to Avalon. What's left of the Pack scatters.
JANUARY 25
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 25th...
1995
Elisa Maza and Derek Maza trail David Xanatos to the Diamond Exchange, where Xanatos buys the Coyote Diamond. Hyena and Jackal, on orders from Fox, attempt to steal the Diamond. They are thwarted by Derek, Elisa and Xanatos. Xanatos seems impressed with Derek and offers him a job as his pilot and bodyguard.
1996
The travelers arrive in Egypt and follow Coyote into a temple hidden inside the Sphinx.
JANUARY 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 24th...
1995
Elisa Maza gives the Trio a helicopter simulation video game.
1996
Goliath, Angela, Elisa Maza and Bronx rest through the day in London, allowing Goliath's injured wing to heal. That night, they return to Avalon. Griff, Leo and Una become protectors of London again.
JANUARY 22
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 22nd...
1996
"Dominique Destine" marries "Lennox Macbeth". But as the sun sets, Macbeth learns the truth when Dominique transforms back into Demona. She quickly renders him unconscious. But when Thailog arrives, he secretly helps Macbeth escape. His plan is for Macbeth and Demona to kill each other so that he will inherit both their fortunes. Elisa Maza intervenes by temporarily "killing" both of them. Demona flees with Thailog, but Macbeth and the gargoyles declare a truce. Later, Elisa and the gargoyles take the skiff back to Avalon.
JANUARY 21
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 21st...
1995
Goliath, Hudson and Demona turn to stone mid-battle. When the sun sets, Goliath awakens healed. Demona is forced to flee.
1996
Elisa Maza and the gargoyles arrive in Paris during the day. Elisa starts to call her parents, but when she spots Macbeth and Demona together, she follows them to Macbeth's Chateau. Then she follows Demona to Notre Dame Cathedral, where she loses her trail. After sundown, she rejoins the gargoyles and fills them in. Goliath attempts to confront Demona at the Cathedral and is surprised to find her allied (and apparently in love) with Thailog. Angela overhears their confrontation and realizes that Demona is her biological mother. Goliath and his friends depart. Demona informs Thailog that she has successfully set up their new international corporation: Nightstone Unlimited, owned and operated by Dominique Destine and "Alexander" Thailog.
JANUARY 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 20th...
1995
Demona attempts to poison Elisa Maza in order to lure Goliath to his doom. Knowing it's a trap, Goliath and Hudson take the bait in the hope they can reason with Demona. Demona shoots Goliath, and Hudson struggles to keep him alive and protect him from Demona until sunrise.
1996
Halcyon Renard puts his own soul inside the Golem's body, and his newfound power quickly goes to his head. Ultimately, however, he is made to see the error of his ways, and he returns the Golem to Max Loew, who uses it against Tomas Brod. Renard offers to take the travelers back to New York. But Goliath has concluded that there is a purpose to their travels. They return to Avalon to continue their odyssey.
JANUARY 19
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 19th...
1996
The travelers depart Avalon and arrive in Prague, where Halcyon Renard has made a devil's agreement with gangster Tomas Brod to acquire the Golem. Elisa Maza encounters Max Loew, who attempts to waken the Golem. But before he can, it is stolen by Brod, who turns it over to Renard.
JANUARY 18
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 18th...
1996
Angela, Bronx, Elisa Maza and Goliath sink the mini-sub, and return to Avalon.
JANUARY 17
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 17th...
1975
Edger Blosa dies in Prague.
1996
Angela is imprisoned alongside Nessie, a Loch Ness Monster. That day Elisa Maza spots members of David Xanatos' Security Team resupplying in town. She follows them to Anton Sevarius' secret submarine dock. After nightfall, she returns with Goliath and Bronx, but all three are captured. Sevarius, who has informed Angela that she is Goliath's daughter, takes her along as he attempts to use Nessie to capture her mate Big Daddy in the Loch. Goliath and the others escape, and use a mini-submarine to foil Sevarius' plans. The monster-sub sinks along with every member of the Security Team, except their leader Bruno. The Loch Ness Monsters are reunited and set free.
JANUARY 16
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 16th...
1996
Though the travelers have spent only the hours between sunrise and sunset on Avalon, days have passed in the real world. Goliath, Elisa Maza, Angela and Bronx depart Avalon and find themselves on Loch Ness, back in Scotland. Elisa attempts to leave a message with Matt Bluestone's answering machine, but his message tape is full and the message is not recorded. Later, their skiff is capsized by a Loch Ness Monster. In the confusion, Angela is captured by a monster-shaped submarine and brought back to Dr. Anton Sevarius, who runs DNA tests on her that prove she is the biological daughter of Goliath.
JANUARY 12
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 12th...
1995
Owen Burnett defeats David Xanatos in a judo match, causing Xanatos to fear he is losing his edge. Xanatos first meets with the Emir is that afternoon. That evening on Elisa Maza's first night back on the job, she is assigned a new partner: Matt Bluestone. She brings a television set up to the gargoyles, who are now ensconced in their new home in the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct House. Meanwhile, Xanatos donates the Eye of Odin to the Museum of Modern Art and is interviewed on television by Travis Marshall. Later that night, Xanatos - dressed in Gargoyle Battle Armor - steals the Eye back for his private collection. Simultaneously, two Steel Clan Robots are seen at other locations in the city, leading people to believe that gargoyles are on the loose.
nathan writes...
what episode does elisa turn into a gargoyle
Greg responds...
"The Mirror"
JANUARY 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 5th...
1996
Convinced that David Xanatos is responsible for Elisa Maza's disappearance, Talon leads the Trio in an attack on the Eyrie Building. Xanatos and Owen Burnett test out their new (Thailog motivated) security system and Owen's new stone fist. Ultimately, however, they allow the foursome to fruitlessly search the place once Xanatos discovers that Goliath and the others are missing. Meanwhile, Fang has staged a coup down in the Labyrinth. He takes Talon prisoner upon his return. Maggie the Cat, however, escapes with Claw's aid and seeks help at the Clock Tower. After sundown, Brooklyn leads the gargoyles and Maggie against Fang and his minions. Talon is freed and Fang is captured.
1997
Dingo, Matrix, Hunter, Yama and Fang are approaching an island when their battle-copter Redemption is blown out of the sky.
JANUARY 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 4th...
1066
Edward the Confessor dies of natural causes. His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, succeeds him.
1995
Goliath, Lexington, Bronx and Brooklyn return to Castle Wyvern atop the Eyrie Building but are intercepted by Elisa Maza, Hudson and Broadway, who finally manage to convince Goliath to follow Elisa to their new home at the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct -- but not before Goliath warns Owen Burnett that the clan will some day return. David Xanatos is finally released from jail that morning and returns to the castle. He starts serving his probation. Later that day, Xanatos goes to Gen-U-Tech Systems to observe Anton Sevarius' progress. Sevarius has successfully cloned Goliath and begins to accelerate the growth of "Thailog".
1996
Hudson and the Trio have been searching for Goliath and Bronx to no avail. Broadway, realizing that Elisa Maza is missing too, brings her cat Cagney back to the Clock Tower. Brooklyn resists taking the reins of leadership, but he does go to visit Talon and Maggie the Cat in the Labyrinth, where homeless humans like Al, Chaz and Lou have joined the Mutates in what is supposed to be a free society of outcasts. Broadway visits Matt Bluestone next, but Matt is equally in the dark over his partner's disappearance. Lex eavesdrops on Elisa's parents and learns they are also worried. Meanwhile on Queen Florence Island, Elisa and the gargoyles find each other again, and then find Grandmother as she transforms into the Thunderbird. Grandmother later admits that she was undergoing these transformations to convince Natsilane to take up arms against Raven to save the island. When Natsilane meets the gargoyles, he is convinced. The gargoyles and Natsilane battle Raven and drive him away. With Raven gone, Grandmother is able to heal the island. The travelers again return to Avalon, where it is six in the morning, causing Goliath, Angela and Bronx to turn to stone.
JANUARY 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 3rd...
1995
Macbeth attacks the gargoyles at the Eyrie Building, capturing Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx. Elisa Maza, who is largely recovered but still on crutches from being shot, again tries to convince Goliath to leave the castle. He won't listen, but after Goliath departs to find the others, she manages to convince Hudson and Broadway that the castle is no longer their home. They take the Grimorum Arcanorum from Owen Burnett and leave the castle. Meanwhile, Bronx escapes and leads Goliath back to Macbeth's mansion. Macbeth and Goliath battle, Macbeth revealing that his true target is Demona. Macbeth's mansion is damaged by fire, and the gargoyles escape.
1996
The travelers depart Avalon again, arriving on Queen Florence Island off the west coast of Canada, where they immediately encounter Grandmother in the form of a Sea Monster. Elisa is separated from the others and washes ashore, where she is found by Grandmother and Natsilane, the chief of the local Haida band. Elisa is alive, but gravely ill. Grandmother helps heal her. That night, Goliath, Angela and Bronx encounter Raven posing as a gargoyle.
JANUARY 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 2nd...
1996
The Captain has a change of heart and rescues Goliath. The Captain's spirit ascends. Hakon is trapped alone in the caverns below Wyvern. The quartet of travelers return to Avalon so that they may attempt to find Manhattan again. Meanwhile in Paris, Demona encounters Thailog. They quickly form an alliance.
JANUARY 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
January 1st...
1996
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
DECEMBER 30
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 30th...
1995
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.
DECEMBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 29th...
1995
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to steal the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate from the Archmage. They fail. Meanwhile, Elisa Maza and the Magus succeed in waking the Sleeping King, Arthur Pendragon.
DECEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 28th...
1065
Westminster Abbey, built by Edward the Confessor, is consecrated.
1994
David Xanatos, who is scheduled to be released from jail in one week, is contacted by Macbeth, who offers to rid the castle of gargoyles.
1995
Goliath and Tom the Guardian meet at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. Together with Elisa Maza and Bronx, they depart for Avalon, where they are introduced to the grown hatchlings of the Wyvern Clan, including Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca, and reunited with the Magus and Princess Katharine. Meanwhile, a recently transformed Archmage travels back in time...
DECEMBER 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
NOTE THAT THIS IS CORRECT FOR DECEMBER 27. THE PREVIOUS POST FOR DECEMBER 26 IS INCORRECT. AT THIS TIME, I HAVE NOTHING IN THE TIMELINE THAT DEFINITELY TOOK PLACE ON 12/26.
December 27th...
1994
The Manhattan Clan enjoys a pleasant, peaceful night at the castle: Broadway cooks; Goliath reads; Lex and Brooklyn play cards; Hudson watches Donald Duck on TV; Bronx chews a bone. Meanwhile, David Xanatos is still counting down the days until his release.
1995
Hudson and the Trio patrol, while Goliath and Bronx remain behind at the Clock Tower. Tom, now known as the Guardian, arrives in New York, looking for Goliath. He is arrested by Officer Morgan Morgan, who mentions him to Elisa Maza. Elisa arranges a meeting between Goliath and Tom.
DECEMBER 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 23rd...
1995
Broadway and Brooklyn manage to lead "Macbeth" away from "Hudson", but Broadway is caught mid-air when sunrise causes him to turn to stone. Elisa Maza barely manages to save him. After the sun sets again, "Macbeth" destroys "Hudson", and a grief-stricken Goliath destroys what is revealed to be a Macbeth robot. Back at the castle, the real Hudson escapes David Xanatos on his own and is reunited with his clan. Owen Burnett tests the Cauldron of Life, which turns one of his hands permanently to stone.
Demonskrye writes...
I've gone through the archives and asked in the Comment Room and as far s I can tell, this question has never been asked or answered.
In the story memo for "Metamorphosis", you make mention of a "pinkie swear" concept, some kind of in-joke call and response back and forth between Elisa and Derek that is specific to them. So that when Elisa is talking to "Talon" and starts in with the first part of the phrase, Derek finishes it with his particular twist out of habit and Elisa immediately realizes who he is. But in the final episode, they just say "cross my heart" "and hope to die", which is pretty much the standard version of that saying which everyone uses. Granted, it would be a little odd for someone to finish the phrase when a complete stranger starts it, and I can accept the idea that hearing Derek say something that he says fairly often would be enough of a trigger for Elisa to recognize him. But I still can't help but think that the scene would have been clearer and more ffective if it had been established that Derek says "and cross my eyes" or "and hope there's pie" or something equally silly and unique whenever Elisa says "cross my heart". So why didn't the final script use the suggestion from the story memo?
Greg responds...
The idea that one starts and the other finishes struck us as unique enough.
DECEMBER 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 20th...
1995
Goliath kidnaps Anton Sevarius out from under the nose of Gen-U-Tech security guard Vinnie Grigori. Goliath takes Sevarius down to the abandoned Cyberbiotics underground lab and tries to force him to create a cure for the Mutates. Meanwhile, the Mutates attack the other gargoyles at the Clock Tower. The gargoyles ultimately win the battle, but Brooklyn lets them go in order to prove to Maggie the Cat that he can be trusted. Having discovered that Goliath was the kidnapper, Elisa Maza, Talon, the Mutates, David Xanatos and his Steel Clan robots all converge on the old lab. Xanatos rescues Sevarius, and Talon finally realizes his employer was responsible for his metamorphosis. Talon and the other Mutates take up residence in the abandoned Cyberbiotics underground base, which they redub "The Labyrinth". The next morning, Vinnie is fired from Gen-U-Tech. And that evening, Elisa brings her parents and sister to the Labyrinth for a reunion with Derek and an introduction to the other Mutates. In Scotland, Xanatos' security team successfully captures "Nessie", a Loch Ness Monster. Sevarius leaves for Scotland, to begin running tests on the creature.
DECEMBER 19
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 19th...
1995
Goliath and Broadway, who aren't in on Elisa Maza's undercover charade, follow her and come close to blowing her cover. She covers, however, and manages to get a meeting with Tony Dracon, where the two of them agree to go into business together with the gargoyles. The gargoyles and cops wind up foiling Dracon's operation and getting him to confess his transgressions on videotape. He's arrested and sent away. Goliath tastes jalapeñas for the first time. Later that morning, Elisa's sister Beth Maza comes into town from Arizona. That evening, while the Trio attend a rock concert in the park, Beth spots Talon watching the Maza family from outside Elisa's window. Later, Goliath admits that he has seen the Mutates back with David Xanatos. Elisa and Goliath confront Talon. Elisa reveals to her brother that Anton Sevarius isn't dead. Talon's extreme stance convinces Goliath to take drastic action.
DECEMBER 18
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 18th...
1995
Tony Dracon's men blow up Art & Lois' Restaurant. Maria Chavez, Matt Bluestone and Elisa Maza continue to pretend that a bitter Elisa has gone bad, this time for the benefit of Pal Joey, one of Dracon's men. Meanwhile, Thailog arrives in Paris and begins sleeping days atop Notre Dame Cathedral.
DECEMBER 16
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 16th...
1995
On instructions from Captain Maria Chavez, Elisa Maza pretends to be a crooked cop trying to muscle in on Tony Dracon's protection racket. Meanwhile, Goliath spots the Mutates hanging around the Eyrie Building. He elects not to tell Elisa.
DECEMBER 14
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
December 14th...
1995
The trio have grown steadily more at odds over Goliath's inability to choose one of them as a Second. They have begun competing to see who can stop the most street crime. Elisa, Goliath, Hudson and Bronx are captured by a newly upgraded Pack. Coyote has a new robot body. Hyena & Jackal are now cyborgs. Wolf is a mutate. And Dingo has new battle armor. Meanwhile, Halcyon Renard, who had been searching for some means to fight the disease that is killing him, discovers an incantation that will transfer his soul into the Golem of Prague.
NOVEMBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 29th...
1995
2:00am
David Xanatos arrives at the oil rig with the ransom money. He confronts Anton Sevarius but quickly realizes Sevarius believes Xanatos himself is behind the scheme. It is soon revealed that Thailog has been playing everyone against each other from the beginning. He captures Sevarius, Xanatos, Goliath and Elisa Maza. All four escape, but Thailog is seemingly killed when the rig blows up. However, the next morning, Xanatos realizes Thailog escaped with the money.
NOVEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 28th...
1995
Elisa Maza, Broadway and Lexington are lured to Long Island after midnight by a false tip. They are assaulted by a creature that appears to be Goliath. That morning, mercenaries hired by Anton Sevarius steal a stone Thailog from David Xanatos. After sunset, they deliver their prize to Sevarius on an oil rig just off the coast of Long Island. Not long after, Elisa, Goliath, Broadway and Lex return to Long Island to investigate Goliath's mysterious look-alike. They find a Gen-U-Tech Systems tracking device. Meanwhile, Xanatos receives a ransom call demanding twenty million dollars in exchange for the creature. He and Owen Burnett quickly deduce that Sevarius is behind the gargoyle-napping. At Gen-U-Tech, Lexington and Broadway discover the truth about Goliath's clone Thailog. Meanwhile, in Scotland, Xanatos' security team begins searching for the Loch Ness Monster.
NOVEMBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 24th...
1995
Matt Bluestone confronts Elisa Maza about the gargoyles at the end of their shift. They return to the Clock Tower, but not before sunrise. Elisa promises to introduce Matt to the gargoyles at sundown. Matt meets with Mace Malone again, who tells him that the way to prove his loyalty is to bring a gargoyle to the Hotel Cabal. Later, Elisa introduces Matt to the Manhattan Clan. He and Goliath arrange to fool Mace at the Hotel Cabal. After they arrive, they are quickly separated, and Goliath is put through the Hotel's paces by Mace.
NOVEMBER 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 23rd...
1963
Quincy Hemings becomes White House Chief Steward.
1995
Matt finds and confronts Mace Malone at Pine Lawn Cemetery. Malone offers Matt an Illuminati membership on the condition that he pass a loyalty test. As a show of good faith, Malone tells Matt about the gargoyles and Elisa's involvement with them. Matt stews about the information for most of the night, i.e. for most of his shift with Elisa. The ghosts of Hakon and the Captain hear Tom talking to himself. They discover that Goliath is possibly still alive. Tom returns to Avalon to discuss this latest news with the Magus and Princess Katharine.
NOVEMBER 22
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 22nd...
1963
John F. Kennedy assassinated.
1995
Matt questions Jack Dane and gets a lead on Mace Malone. Just before sundown, he confronts Elisa in the Clock Tower about her lies. She puts him off again. In Scotland, Tom hikes back up Wyvern Hill and spends some time reminiscing. He even searches the Archmage's caverns.
NOVEMBER 21
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 21st...
1995
Matt Bluestone meets with Martin Hacker and gets information about Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, at the precinct house, Matt realizes that Elisa's lying to him about something. He gives her the opportunity to question Dane with him, but she passes. Meanwhile in Wyvern, Tom hikes to a nearby village and learns from the locals that the castle wasn't demolished, but taken apart and shipped, lock, stock & gargoyle, to Manhattan -- where it was placed at the top of a "skyscraper".
NOVEMBER 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 20th...
1994
Elisa, now out of danger, regains consciousness just before dawn. Broadway apologizes to her. Dracon wakes up with a permanent grey streak in his hair.
1995
The Guardian departs Avalon to see if it is safe for the Avalon Clan to leave the island. Avalon sends him to Wyvern Hill, where he sees that Castle Wyvern is now gone.
NOVEMBER 19
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 19th...
1994
Dr. Sato spends ten hours in surgery trying to save Elisa Maza's life. Her parents, brother and boss come to see her at the hospital. Goliath is outside and overhears Captain Chavez's suspicion that Tony Dracon shot her. Goliath vows vengeance and trails Dracon to the weapons. Broadway, meanwhile, is on an anti-gun rampage, foiling a mugging and tracing the prototype weapons back to Dracon. Together, Broadway and Goliath take Dracon and his men down and destroy the guns. Captain Chavez, with the help of Matt Bluestone, arrests Dracon.
NOVEMBER 18
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 17th...
1994
Tony Dracon steals hi-tech weapon prototypes from Xanatos Enterprises. Elisa is put on the case and confronts Dracon, who later orders Glasses to sell a few of the weapons on the street. Broadway rushes off to see the movie Showdown again and then goes to Elisa's loft for a bite to eat. He accidentally shoots her with her own gun and rushes her to Manhattan General Hospital. He does not return to the castle.
1995
At the behest of Fox, the cybots are reprogrammed by Preston Vogel to sabotage Fortress-2. Goliath and Renard join forces to defeat them and save the ship. In the end, Vogel has a change of heart and assists. Early that morning, Fox confronts Renard, informing her father of her pregnancy. Owen learns from Xanatos that Fox is pregnant and begins making preparations for a possible attack from the Children of Oberon.
NOVEMBER 17
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 17th...
1994
The Trio goes to see the movie Showdown for the first time.
1995
Early in the afternoon, Fox wires a down payment to Preston Vogel's Swiss bank account, securing his services for her hostile effort to take over Halcyon Renard's Cyberbiotics company. That evening, Cyberbiotics launches Fortress-2. Despite Elisa's concern, Goliath follows the airship to protect it, but he is viewed as a threat and is captured by Renard's cybots. Meanwhile, Fox receives test results from her doctor, confirming she is pregnant with Xanatos' child.
NOVEMBER 15
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 15th...
1994
While Elisa again tries to convince Goliath to abandon the castle, they are attacked by a Steel Clan Robot. Goliath destroys it, but Owen uses the opportunity to acquire some of Goliath's genetic material.
1995
The Pack attempts to rob a bank. The gargoyles try to stop them. Goliath is badly injured - allowing the Pack to escape. Hudson informs Goliath that he needs to choose one of the Trio to be his Second-in-Command.
1996
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NOVEMBER 14
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 14th...
1995
After another shift, Elisa returns to the Clock Tower just before sunrise, where she's confronted by Demona and witnesses her change into a human being. Demona challenges Elisa to save the gargoyles. Meeting the challenge, Elisa shows up at Belvedere Castle at high noon to confront the trio of villains. Elisa fights the human Demona, while Othello and Desdemona internally challenge Iago. Othello wins control of Coldstone's body and turns against Macbeth, who is forced to flee with Demona. Coldstone, fearing for the safety of his clanmates as long as Iago exists within him, departs Manhattan. Back at Macbeth's mansion, the Weird Sisters reassert their control over Macbeth and Demona, revealing that they were behind the theft of the three magical objects.
1996
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NOVEMBER 13
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 13th...
1994
Elisa Maza uses the spell from the Grimorum Arcanorum to -- for all intents and purposes -- free Goliath's mind.
1995
At dawn, after a long night on duty, Elisa follows Macbeth and a human Demona up to the Clock Tower. They knock her out and steal Coldstone, in order to distract the clan from realizing that they've also stolen the Eye of Odin, the Grimorum and the Phoenix Gate. At sundown, Demona transforms back into a gargoyle and reawakens Coldstone with the evil Iago personality in control. Meanwhile, Elisa fills in the gargoyles, who sneak into Macbeth's mansion to recover Coldstone - only to be betrayed and captured. Meanwhile, Tony Dracon is released on bail and begins tightening his grip on the protection racket in Manhattan.
1996
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NOVEMBER 12
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 12th...
1035
King Canute of England dies, widowing Emma for the second time. He is succeeded by Harold Harefoot, his son by his first wife Elfgiva .
1994
Elisa informs Goliath that Xanatos will be out of jail soon. (In order to make a point, she exaggerates and says he'll be out in a month, when in fact it's closer to two.) Brooklyn steals the Grimorum Arcanorum for Demona. Then he lures Goliath to the Cloisters, where Demona casts a spell on Goliath that enslaves him to her will. Brooklyn realizes his error and takes control of Goliath away from her. Demona manages to get away with a few pages from the Grimorum.
1995
Xanatos, his Steel Clan Robots and the gargoyles depart the castle wearing packs that will distribute a harmless gas that can be ignited to make it look like the sky is on fire. After they leave, Demona reveals her presence. Demona attempts to sabotage Xanatos' plan, but Macbeth confronts Demona, determined to end both their lives. Xanatos and Goliath return to see the Weird Sisters disable both Demona and Macbeth and depart with them. The sky is set ablaze, and the humans are freed from the spell just before the sun rises on a new day.
1996
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NOVEMBER 11
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 11th...
1994
Lex finishes fixing the motorcycle, and Brooklyn takes it for a ride. He is attacked by a motorcycle gang that destroys the bike. Demona comes to his aid and convinces him that humans are a danger to the clan. He agrees to help her make Goliath see the truth through magic. Xanatos' jail sentence is officially recorded. It immediately becomes clear to Elisa that he will only have to serve half of his sentence, after time off for good behavior. Elisa finds a good home for the gargoyles in the Clock Tower above her precinct house.
1995
Everyone converges at PackMedia Studios. Xanatos puts an end to the broadcast, but the spell is still in force. Macbeth attacks Demona, but she escapes. Goliath and Xanatos agree to team up to defeat Demona and end the spell. At dawn, the gargoyles all turn to stone. At the same time, the transformed humans become flesh again, without any memory of what had happened to them. Owen informs Xanatos that they need to set the sky on fire to break the spell. They begin preparations to do just that. When Elisa learns that the broadcast originated at the Xanatos-owned PackMedia Studios, she confronts Owen at the Eyrie Building. Both turn to stone at sundown. Shortly thereafter, the gargoyles arrive.
1996
5:38am EST - [withheld]
NOVEMBER 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 10th...
1995
Macbeth sees enough of the broadcast to realize what Demona is up to. Elisa goes to the Clock Tower to wait for the gargoyles to awaken. At sundown, Owen, Fox and Elisa (as well as most of the humans in Manhattan) turn to stone. The gargoyles awaken at sundown and discover Elisa and the other stone humans. (Thailog also awakens at sundown. With no one at the castle to warn him, he watches Demona's spell on television and immediately turns to stone. He will remain stone in the television room, 24 hours a day until the spell is broken. But he has had his first exposure to Demona.) The gargoyles stop at Robbins' house. Being blind, he was unaffected by Demona's spell. They begin to search the city for Demona, who's on a killing spree, destroying stone humans in the streets. Separately, Macbeth and Xanatos also seek Demona.
1996
5:37am EST - [withheld]
NOVEMBER 9
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 9th...
1995
The city honors Peter Choy and Rosaria Sanchez. Terrorists take hostages (including Brendan & Margot) at a bank. The gargoyles intervene and have their first encounter with the Weird Sisters. Wolf sees television coverage of the bank robbery and decides that he and the Pack are going to turn to a life of crime. Meanwhile, Demona and Xanatos initiate their plan to secure immortality by stealing a minute of life from everyone who watches their hijacked broadcast. However, Demona was fooling Xanatos, and actually succeeds in using the broadcast to turn everyone who watches into stone at night. Owen, Fox, Elisa and most of the humans in Manhattan see the broadcast. Xanatos does not watch.
1996
5:36am EST - [withheld]
NOVEMBER 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 5th...
1994
Lexington convinces Goliath to meet the Pack. But the Pack attempts to hunt Goliath and Lex down. The gargoyles manage to turn the tables. Fox and Wolf are arrested.
1995
Xanatos sends word through Elisa that he wants to talk to Goliath. Assuming the worst, Goliath attacks Xanatos atop the Goldencup Bakery Building. After a brief struggle, Xanatos stops the fight and asks Goliath to be best man at his wedding to Fox the next night. Xanatos also promises that Demona will be at the wedding.
1996
3:00am EST - [withheld]
5:31am EST - [withheld]
NOVEMBER 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 4th...
1994
Now that Xanatos has negotiated such a short sentence, Elisa tries to convince Goliath that the gargoyles must leave the castle. Goliath refuses. Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington attend a live performance by the Pack. Lexington makes contact with his heroes after the show.
1995
Peter Choy and Rosaria Sanchez rescue and resuscitate a drowning five-year-old from the lake in Central Park.
1996
5:30am EST - [withheld]
5:35am EST - [withheld]
9:48pm EST - [withheld]
9:50pm EST - [withheld]
NOVEMBER 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 2nd...
1996
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
6:46am EST - [withheld]
6:47am EST - [withheld]
3:52pm EST - [withheld]
3:53pm EST - [withheld]
4:50pm EST - [withheld]
5:12pm EST - [withheld]
5:14pm EST - [withheld]
5:15pm EST - [withheld]
5:18pm EST - [withheld]
NOVEMBER 1
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
November 1st...
975
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
1975
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
1995
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
1996
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
OCTOBER 31
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 31st...
1994
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
1995
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
1996
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
1997
Xanatos' probation expires.
OCTOBER 30
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 30th...
1995
After picking up her Halloween costume, Elisa encounters the Werefox in Mr. Jaffe's store.
OCTOBER 29
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 29th...
1995
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
1996
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
OCTOBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 28th...
1994
Xanatos anticipates being released by October 31st, the date of his next pre-trial appearance.
1995
Like Matt before her, Elisa questions G.F. Benton, unaware that he is really Dominic Dracon. She too heads for the old location of the Silver Falcon. Broadway is caught in a cave-in at dawn and turns to stone. Elisa is taken hostage with Matt by Tony Dracon and his henchman Glasses. When Tony fails to find the jewels Mace hid, Elisa bargains with him, offering to trade the true location of the jewels for her and Matt's life. That night, Elisa, Matt and Broadway manage to take down Dracon, his men and his grandfather Dominic.
OCTOBER 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 27th...
1994
At the risk of his Cyberbiotics assets, Halcyon Renard determines to replace his destroyed Fortress-1 airship with a new Fortress-2 that is to be manned almost entirely by cybots.
1995
Broadway stops by Elisa's place to pick up the Trio's Halloween costumes and to watch a video of his favorite thirties gangster movie. Captain Chavez, concerned about Bluestone, contacts Elisa, who begins investigating Matt's disappearance with Broadway (who dons his Halloween costume for the case). They stumble on Pal Joey ransacking Matt's apartment, and Broadway rescues all three of them when a bomb Joey planted explodes prematurely. Elisa keeps Matt's rendezvous with Hacker.
1996
Robyn Canmore is arrested. Jason, who is also arrested, survives surgery but is paralyzed from the waist down. Xanatos tells Elisa that the gargoyles are welcome to stay at his castle. Just before dawn, Elisa and Goliath kiss for the first time. Jon Canmore contacts the Illuminati. In very short order, they set him up with a new identity, John Castaway, and put him in charge of the Quarrymen organization that they already had in the works. Macbeth's former minions Banquo and Fleance are hired to assist Castaway.
Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...
Clarifications on Elisa and relationships...
When I talked about Elisa flirting with Jason, that was acknowledging her actions in Hunter's Moon more than the comic but those actions impact what we see in Issue 3, where you are correct that they have stayed friends despite what transpired in Hunter's Moon though that's not in the comic. I should have been clearer about that.
And I never said Elisa flirted with Morgan, just the fact that she went on the date with him so quickly instead of taking a step back to focus first before doing anything after the speech with Goliath at the castle. Her actions just seem jumpy and rushed.
You'll probably still disagree with me and that's OK. I just want to make sure that you read me correctly.
Greg responds...
No, I think Elisa's actions were "jumpy and rushed". She felt she had to demonstrate a change. I'm not defending it, but I understand it (or, uh, obviously I wouldn't have written it).
OCTOBER 26
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 26th...
1994
Vinnie's driver's license is revoked when he claims gargoyles smashed his motorcycle into a wall.
1995
Elisa receives the Trio's Halloween costumes. Matt, still in Dracon's custody, finds out that Mace's Silver Falcon letter has nothing to do with the Illuminati. But he decides that if he ever gets out of this situation alive, he'll continue his hunt for Mace.
1996
With Lex's help Goliath tracks the Hunters to an upstate hydroelectric dam. Goliath and Broadway battle the Hunters. Elisa tries to break up the fight, but she and Jason seemingly fall off the dam to their deaths. That day, Robyn and a vengeful Jon manage to decrypt Demona's disk and learn about her plan. The Praying Gargoyle will protect her and her kind, while the Medici Tablet, the D/I-7 and the CV-1000 will blend science and sorcery to destroy humanity. Meanwhile, some distance below the dam, Jason manages to pull Elisa to safety. The night of the Hunter's Moon, Demona, the Hunters, the gargoyles, the NYPD's Gargoyles Taskforce (GTF), the press and many bystanders all converge at St. Damien's Cathedral in Manhattan. While Demona prepares her spell, the Hunters and the other gargoyles fight. Jason and Elisa arrive, trying to call a truce. But Jon refuses. He shoots at Goliath but badly injures Jason instead. Jon flees. Goliath stops Demona by destroying the Praying Gargoyle, forcing her to abandon her plan or die herself. Demona flees, but the GTF has the rest of the gargoyles dead to rights. Suddenly, Xanatos shows up and rescues them.
OCTOBER 25
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 25th...
1994
Officer Morgan is transferred to the 23rd Precinct.
1995
Matt Bluestone questions G.F. Benton, unaware that the man is really Dominic Dracon. Matt follows a lead from "Benton" to the location of the old Silver Falcon speakeasy, where he's captured by Tony Dracon.
1996
The Hunters trace Goliath back to the Clock Tower and blow it up. One of the Hunters pulls Elisa from the police precinct. She removes his mask and recognizes her new partner, Jason. He drugs her and leaves her in her apartment. Meanwhile, the explosion causes Maria Chavez to break her leg. The gargoyles barely survive, and Hudson and Lex are badly injured. Jon Canmore has the opportunity to destroy them, but he allows them to flee the Clock Tower. Unfortunately, Robyn forces Jon to blame the gargoyles for the Clock Tower's destruction on the television news. Now the entire city knows they exist and is hunting for them. The gargoyles hide out at Elisa's loft. That day, Elisa and Matt meet with Maria Chavez in her hospital room. They've discovered the Canmore siblings' true identities. Robyn breaks into Demona's vault, but Demona has already emptied it of everything but a computer disk. That night Goliath goes in search of the Hunters.
OCTOBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 24th...
1994
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
1996
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
OCTOBER 23
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 23rd...
1996
Just before dawn, Elisa and the gargoyles rescue a subway train full of passengers (including Brendan and Margot) from a street gang. That morning, Captain Chavez temporarily reassigns Elisa to the dayshift and partners her with Detective Jason Conover. Elisa and Jason are immediately attracted to each other. Together, they prevent thieves from stealing containers of D/I-7 from a Xanatos warehouse. That evening, Dominique Destine hires Robyn Corey as her personal assistant at Nightstone Unlimited and discovers that the thieves she hired failed to acquire the D/I-7. That night, Matt questions Xanatos about the D/I-7 and learns it is a potent but theoretically harmless disinfectant. After Matt leaves, WVRN reporter Jon Carter questions Xanatos about the gargoyles. Meanwhile, Elisa tells the gargoyles about her day with Jason. She asks for their help, and they agree to watch over the two locations where the D/I-7 is stored.
Charisma82 writes...
Hey! I was reading up on the episode Hunter's Moon part 3 last night on GargWiki and when I was reading the part about Broadway giving Elisa a lift to where Goliath was fighting the hunters, I started wondering about something. Why was it that Broadway was the one to take Elisa and not one of the other gargoyles? I have some ideas on why it was him and not one of the others, like the fact that he and Elisa are somewhat closer than she is with the other members of the trio, and if she asked him to take her, he probably would. I also wondered why not Brooklyn since he's the leader while Goliath is gone, and then I thought that since he is the leader, he wouldn't want to go against Goliath's wishes. But I want to know what your reason was for having Broadway take Elisa, and not just me guessing at it. Now that starts me thinking on which of the gargoyles thought it was okay for Broadway to take Elisa and which ones didn't agree that it was the right thing to do. Do you think any of them were against them going, which would be going against Goliath's command? Could you please shed some light on this for me?
Thank you for your time and all that you do.
-Charisma82
Greg responds...
I guess I could, but frankly I don't think I should. This isn't some big secret, but I think we're all better served letting what exists stand on its own, leaving it to your (pretty valid as far as I'm concerned) interpretation.
OCTOBER 13
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 13th...
1996
When Demona refuses to allow Thailog to kill Angela, he reveals an additional clone: Delilah, created from a combination of Demona and Elisa's DNA. Demona frees Talon, Goliath and the clan. They manage to recapture Fang and take down the clones. But while fighting each other, Demona and Thailog seemingly perish in a fire. Talon offers to take the other clones back to the Labyrinth where he promises to teach them to think for themselves.
OCTOBER 7
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 7th...
1994
Xanatos used the data on the disks to activate his Steel Clan Robots, which he and Demona immediately set against the gargoyles. The attempt is ultimately futile; the robots are destroyed. Demona, however, gets the drop on Goliath. She reveals her name and her complicity with Castle Wyvern's Captain of the Guard. Elisa prevents Demona from killing Goliath. And Goliath once again saves Elisa's life. Demona disappears. Xanatos is arrested and thrown in jail, initially on multiple felony charges that include grand theft and industrial espionage. Due to his wealth and international connections, he is considered a flight risk and held without bail. Repair work begins immediately to restore all damage to the castle.
OCTOBER 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 6th...
1994
Elisa discovers that gargoyles turn to stone during the day. She's forced to lead the Commandos away from a stone Goliath in order to protect him. She then waits by his side throughout the day, cementing their friendship. That night the Trio takes the names Brooklyn, Broadway and Lexington and gives Bronx his name as well. Xanatos then reunites Goliath with Demona. Together, Demona and Xanatos convince Goliath and the clan to "retrieve" the computer disks from Cyberbiotics. Goliath and Demona attack Cyberbiotics' airship The Fortress-1, costing Vinnie his Cyberbiotics' security job in the process. The gargoyles are successful in recovering the disks. But the Cyberbiotics Underground Base (under the leadership of the Cyberbiotics Commander) is badly damaged by Hudson and Bronx. And Goliath grows disconcerted with the changes in Demona, particularly after she causes the destruction of Fortress-1. Elisa is able to convince Goliath that Xanatos has been using him, revealing that the disks were actually Cyberbiotics' property and that the Commandos were working for Xanatos.
OCTOBER 5
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 5th...
1994
Elisa investigates, encountering first Owen, then Xanatos, then Bronx and finally Goliath. Frightened at seeing a live gargoyle for the first time, she backs away and falls off the building. Goliath saves her life, introduces her to the rest of the clan and agrees to meet her the next night. Early that morning, Xanatos asks Goliath's help to get his disks back. Goliath is reluctant to help. And unbeknownst to him, Xanatos and Demona are planning something. That night, the Trio leaves the castle to explore the city and accidentally trashes the motorcycle of a man named Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson keep the rendezvous with Elisa, who more or less gives Hudson his name. Hudson retreats to the castle with Bronx - where they discover television and lounge chairs. Meanwhile, Goliath and Elisa rescue an ungrateful Margot Yale and Brendan Quarters from muggers, before being attacked in Central Park by the Commandos from the night before.
OCTOBER 4
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 4th...
1994
The final touches on the castle are completed. It now sits atop the Eyrie Building, high "above the clouds", thus fulfilling the condition of the Magus' spell. The Magus' curse is broken, and Goliath, Hudson, the Trio and Bronx awaken to a brave new world. Minutes later, a group of Commandos attack and seem to steal three disks from Xanatos. This attracts the attention of New York City Police Detective Elisa Maza. Elisa also meets Officer Morgan for the first time.
1995
The werefox is first sighted in Manhattan.
OCTOBER 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
October 2nd...
1995
In anticipation of Halloween, Elisa helps the Trio order costumes through the mail. Broadway chooses a detective costume. Brooklyn, a pirate. Lex, a pilot.
SEPTEMBER 28
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 28th...
994
Tom, Mary and other refugees are given shelter from rampaging Vikings at Castle Wyvern.
995
Michaelmas Eve. Tom and the Magus get the eggs out of Edinburgh Castle. Finella drugs Constantine so that Katharine can escape, and flees with the Princess, Tom, Mary, the Magus and the eggs. The Magus brings them all to the mystic island of Avalon. He is forced to battle the Weird Sisters to achieve the island. He turns them into owls but is unable to take the Grimorum with him. Finella and Mary agree to take the book and keep it safe from Constantine. They depart. Katharine, Tom and the Magus land on Avalon with the eggs. The two time-traveling Archmages witness all this and rescue the Weird Sisters from their owl-state. The Archmages and the Sisters form an alliance. They agree to meet again in the year 1020.
1963
Vinnie Grigori is born in New York.
1980
In Paris, Demona steals the Praying Gargoyle statue from Notre Dame Cathedral. Confronted by Charles Canmore, the Hunter, she kills him and escapes. Canmore's children, Jason, Robyn and Jon swear vengeance.
1995
At midnight, Demona uses Titania's Mirror to summon Puck. They turn Elisa and all the humans in Manhattan into gargoyles and vice versa. The situation is soon reversed, but Puck arranges it so that Demona is human during the day and a gargoyle at night. Fox contacts Preston Vogel, inducing him to betray her father Halcyon Renard.
1996
Xanatos and his robots track Coldstone down in the Himalayas and disable him.
SEPTEMBER 27
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 27th...
1995
Despite Goliath and Elisa's efforts, Demona acquires Titania's Mirror from the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
SEPTEMBER 24
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 24th...
1995
Hudson washes ashore and is helped by author Jeffrey Robbins. Robbins realizes Hudson is illiterate and convinces him that he isn't too old to learn to read. After sunrise, Macbeth finds Hudson frozen in stone outside Robbins' place. Macbeth takes the scroll. The gargoyles attack Macbeth's Mansion to rescue Broadway and recover the Scrolls. But Macbeth loses interest in the Scrolls when he discovers they aren't Merlin's spellbooks. He allows the gargoyles to depart with them. Goliath returns the Scrolls to Elisa, who delivers them to the Museum. Hudson and Broadway immediately begin learning to read. Robbins starts work on a new book, The Sword and the Staff: A Book of Merlin.
SEPTEMBER 20
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 20th...
1995
Coldstone's repairs are completed. He is reactivated and attacks the Goldencup building, where he downloads government defense specs and is infected by a potent computer virus. Elisa and Matt are called in to deal with the situation using R.E.C.A.P. Lexington and Goliath accompany them and reunite with Coldstone. All are initially unaware that multiple personas (Othello, Desdemona, Iago and David Xanatos' programming) are vying for control of Coldstone's body. Coldstone flees to Ellis Island, and Goliath enters his mind to sort out the trouble. Meanwhile, Xanatos takes delivery on another batch of Steel Clan Robots from Scarab Corp.
SEPTEMBER 11
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 11th...
1995
The gargoyles and Elisa return to the Clock Tower, while back at the Eyrie Building, Xanatos and Sevarius, who had only faked his death, discuss the success of their plan. Later that day, the Metropolitan Museum of Art announces a forthcoming new medieval exhibit: "Titania's Treasures". Demona immediately begins planning to steal Titania's Mirror.
SEPTEMBER 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 10th...
1995
The gargoyles take Maggie back to the Clock Tower, but she flees to Xanatos after they turn to stone. Elisa and Matt discover that Xanatos owns Gen-U-Tech. After sundown, the gargoyles awaken and discover Maggie gone. The gargoyles and Elisa confront the Mutates and Xanatos at the Eyrie Building. Although Derek takes the name Talon, Elisa realizes that the Mutate is her brother. Talon and the other Mutates flee.
SEPTEMBER 8
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 8th...
1995
Derek and Xanatos confront Sevarius at Gen-U-Tech. Sevarius reveals that he has been testing his mutagenic formula on three human test subjects. Xanatos threatens to shut down the project. Sevarius shoots Derek with a dart filled with the mutagen. Derek begins to mutate. Elisa and Matt question Sevarius but find nothing concrete.
SEPTEMBER 7
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 7th...
1995
Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smyth discover The Scrolls of Merlin in Wales. Elisa confronts Derek about missing the previous Sunday's family dinner. He promises to contact her if he has any trouble with Xanatos. That night, Maggie the Cat is allowed to "escape" from Gen-U-Tech Systems. Brooklyn & Broadway find her and try to help, but she is more frightened of the gargoyles than her pursuers. She is recaptured and taken back to Gen-U-Tech. Owen later informs Xanatos and Derek of unusual expense reports coming out of Gen-U-Tech.
1996
The Illuminati make contact with the Canmore family of Hunters, seeking an alliance. Jason turns them down.
SEPTEMBER 6
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
September 6th...
1995
Fox is granted an expedited parole hearing at the request of grateful prison authorities. She receives an early parole and is reunited with Xanatos. Matt is certified to operate R.E.C.A.P. Elisa tells Lexington about R.E.C.A.P. Coldstone's self-repair systems are activated by Xanatos.
Derek writes...
Why didn't Thailog just make a clone of Demona? He's not attracted to Elisa, you made it clear Goliath and Elisa was more spiritual. Was he just looking to piss Demona off?
Greg responds...
Even assuming that Goliath is not physically attracted to Elisa -- which is NOT something I've "made clear" as I disagree with that premise -- what does that have to do with Thailog?
But, yeah, pissing Demona off was a bonus.
aubrey writes...
could goliath and elisa have a child naturally with the help of science
Greg responds...
Perhaps with a LOT of science... Sevarius-style.
Derek writes...
Hi Greg
I was just wondering why Thailog didn't clone Angela, i know Demona didn't release the bug when she watching her but even still if he could get Eliza's dna without her knowing he could do the same for Angela. If he was expecting Demona to betray him anyway even with Delilah he was at a one "man" disadvantage from a tactical point of view it just would have made more sense for Thailog to clone Angela too.
Greg responds...
When would he have gotten Angela's DNA?
You can pinpoint EXACTLY when he got Elisa's, BTW, if you watch the episode carefully.
SPOILERS
Of course, NOW he has everyone's DNA, everyone in the Manhattan Clan, that is.
AUGUST 3
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 3rd...
1996
Brod attacks Dracon in prison. But, the gargoyles help Elisa take down Brod, Dracon and most of their men. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower, by which time Goliath, Hudson and Bronx have also returned. The Trio apologizes to Angela for their behavior. She forgives each of them with a peck on the cheek - just before the sun rises. Elisa's operation is a phenomenal success. Jack Dane, Pal Joey, Glasses and many other Brod and Dracon operatives are incarcerated. Dracon and Brod are even forced to share a cell.
AUGUST 2
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
August 2nd...
1996
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
JULY 15
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 15th...
1996
The Manhattan Clan imprisons Demona in the Labyrinth and agrees to help Talon and the Mutates guard her and Fang. Angela takes the first watch. Elisa is bitten by a robotic mosquito that samples her DNA. Demona regains consciousness in her cell. Angela introduces herself.
JULY 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
July 10th...
1996
Owen reveals himself as Puck but also fails to stop Oberon. It is Fox herself who saves the day by revealing a magical power even she did not know she possessed. Goliath convinces Oberon to allow Alexander to stay with his parents. Puck is chosen as Alex's tutor. But his powers are stripped from him save when he is training or protecting the boy, and he is eternally banished from Avalon. He reverts to Owen. Oberon arranges for Manhattan to awaken at dawn, and he and Titania return to Avalon. Xanatos vows to repay Goliath for helping to save Alexander. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower. The sun rises. They turn to stone. And the city awakens. Elisa goes back to work. Chavez is less than thrilled about her six-month absence. Fortunately for Elisa, Chavez is in the middle of a turf war between the Brod and Dracon organized crime factions. Chavez needs a new face to infiltrate Brod's men. Because Elisa has been "out of town," she's the perfect choice to go undercover. Elisa will pose as "Salli", bringing Brod information about a Dracon chop shop operation being run by Dracon's lieutenant, Glasses.
Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...
Still reserving anything overall commentwise until issue 5 comes out, but there's a question I keep coming back to and that is Elisa's costume choice as Jasmine, considering she was planning on going with Goliath initially.
Thematically, I'm sure there's some symbolism tied into that choice and I love the thoughts several have shared here.
But part of me wonders why not Esmeralda from NOTRE DAME as that was the Disney movie of Summer 1996? Or did she boycott it due to the comic portrayal of gargoyles?
I know that's probably setup to a smartass answer but I'm ok with that.
Greg responds...
Too much pressure to come up with a funny smartass response.
I just think that Elisa probably had the Jasmine costume in mind for some time... Also, she spent most of the summer traveling the world, so she may have missed that movie.
Todd Jensen writes...
I know that you're not that fond of questions involving "The Goliath Chronicles", but this is something that I thought I should mention here anyway.
One of the episodes of "The Goliath Chronicles" (it was the one involving Taurus and Proteus in New York) has gained particular notoriety among "Gargoyles" fans because the animators somehow made Elisa resemble Jasmine from "Aladdin". As a result, I found it amusing when, in #4 of the new comic, you had Elisa going to the masquerade party as Jasmine.
Given your past comments on the Goliath Chronicles and how you don't even remember them that clearly, I doubt that you deliberately intended that as an in-joke; also, it makes sense that Elisa would choose that costume because in the previous Halloween party in "Gargoyles", she'd gone as another Disney heroine (Belle from "Beauty and the Beast"). But I still thought that I should mention the additional level of meaning that I'd gotten out of her costume choice to you.
Greg responds...
All things are true.
Wesley Nichols writes...
You mentioned in earlier posts that Goliath and Elisa will have Children of their own through adoption and would be parents to the Children of the Clan. Would most of these Children be human? Most Gargoyle Clans are too small to give up their eggs for adoption and most clans are now dead so will they adopt mostly human children? I had originally thought that Tachi and Nashville would count as parents, but you mentioned that Goliath and the others would be considered Rookery Aunts and Uncles, because they did not take part in the procreation of the Hatchlings.
Greg responds...
I never said through adoption. I never said children. I never said human. I never said gargoyle. I'm confident that I've been most reticent on this topic. That's not going to change anytime soon.
JUNE 11
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 11th...
1996
Nokkar captures Bronx and Angela. Meanwhile, Elisa is found by Lydia Duane and Arthur Morwood-Smyth. They take her back to their hotel, where she is examined by Doctor Arnada. Goliath finds her, but when Elisa fails to recognize him, Goliath is forced to kidnap her. Nokkar intervenes again, capturing Goliath and explaining his interpretation of events to Elisa. Nevertheless, Elisa (though still without her memories) comes to believe in Goliath. She helps rescue the gargoyles from Nokkar and is eventually able to convince him that her friends are not servants of the Space Spawn. She also encourages Nokkar to befriend Duane, Morwood-Smyth and Arnada. The travelers depart Easter Island, and Goliath just manages to cast the spell that will send them back to Avalon before the sun rises. When they arrive on the mystic island, it is already night. Nevertheless, it takes a few hours before Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. During this time, Elisa's memory returns.
JUNE 10
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
June 10th...
1996
Elisa, who had been working throughout the Avalonian day to help Jade and Turquesa transplant the rain forest's flora, rejoins Goliath, Angela and Bronx on the skiff. They depart Avalon again and Elisa falls asleep en route to their new landing: Easter Island. While Goliath and Angela explore, Elisa is taken into custody by Nokkar, an alien sentinel based on Easter Island, who has mistaken the gargoyles for a hostile alien invasion force. When Elisa tries to explain that the gargoyles are her friends, Nokkar assumes Elisa has been brainwashed. He wipes her mind clean, temporarily giving her amnesia. Then he sets her free.
Chip writes...
AAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Thailog Stabbed Goliath!
Okay Okay, I had to start that way since I started my last review that way. No titles this time, we just jump straight into the story, which is cool with me. We've got Billy and Susan and a young Terry Chung (Which says to me that New Olympians is still a few years away, alas.)
BTW on a side note why does Billy and Susan's Mom let her kids dress up as convicted felons?
Hah! I figured that Hudson was off to see Robbins, and the panel with Gilly and Bronx lying by the fire just made me squeal with delight (where's Frank Welker when you need him?) It also make me wonder about that Adventure that you said that Bronx went on with Cagney during the events of Vendettas/Turf.
I think Robbins is going to figure out Hudson's little secret if he hasn't already.
Angela as Dorothy, quite apropriate symbolism there. Angela is still not quite used to New York life, (but she's learning fast)
I find it creepy that Lex is dressed exactly as he was in Puck's "Future Tense" world. I also get the feeling that I usually get when foreshadowing is involved...Or maybe I'm just paranoid. Yeah that's it.
"Move Girl" Talon yelled "Moving!" the [Labyrinth New Girl-Whose-Name-you-haven't-revealed-to-us-yet-which-isn't-a-big-deal-since-names-don't-matter-much-to-gargoyles] said moving out of the way hastily.
I'm not sure why, but that scene made me grin, and I gotta wonder, the clones may have been programed as 'robots', but they aren't. How did they feel turning on the Labyrinth residents who've been so good to them.
36-2. Something tells me we have a big-wig here.
BTW (Again) Elisa as Jasmine this year. Does Elisa just like the Disney Princesses? Going as Aurora next year? I think Elisa would make a nice Mulan.
Poor Morgan.
Owen has his own army. Why am I not surprised ;)
And the Climactic moment...Thailog stabs Goliath. Will he make it to surise. (I thing that this marks the first moment that Goliath has actually bled since the pilot episode)
Can't wait for issue #5
Greg responds...
Elisa does like Disney animated movies. At least she did in the 90s.
And kids dress up as all sorts of horrible things on Halloween.
Purplegoldfish writes...
Now you can't get rid of me...
So, watching through my tapes of the later episodes, and I just watched "The Green," one of my favorite world tour eps.
I remember when I first saw the scene after Goliath's and Elisa's argument, when Goliath turns around to glare at Elisa, and thinking 'What was that all about?'
I never felt he did that because he was simply angry at her for her point of view. All the other arguments that we've seen the two get into usually ended with either him agreeing with her, or just shrugging her off (or screaming in her face heh)-typical male ;)
So the way Goliath just stops in his tracks and slowly and deliberately turns to stare at her for a good five or six seconds suggests more to it-as if a realization about her just hit him.
So here's my theory: I think it just kind of hits Goliath how human Elisa really is. There's not just physical differences, but cultural ones as well. He realizes they're going to clash on many things because of their respective instincts and upbringings. Maybe he's thinking of his growing feelings for her-perhaps there's some human prejudice mixed in with those feelings as well-as if he realizes their vast differences and wishes for a moment that she were born a gargoyle and not a human.
And the way Elisa looks back at him suggests that she probably knows what he's thinking and is most likely sharing those same thoughts.
So am I on the right track or totally off?
Greg responds...
Well, I don't agree with your premise. I don't think that's even vaguely an angry look.
Kaylle writes...
Way back in October 2005, the day they released the cover art for the second DVD set, I watched a bunch of episodes instead of doing my homework and typed up my musings on them (mostly on Hunter's Moon and the Goliath/Elisa relationship) in my livejournal. Today I'm *still* trying to avoid my homework, and the queue is open again, so I thought I'd dig up those old musings and get your opinion on them (I may have posted something like this in the CR once as well; my apologies if you happened to catch it there). So here they are. I wrote:
"At the end of HM3, Elisa and Goliath finally get some "resolution" to their relationship. The infamous kiss it took us (and them) 65 episodes to get to. I hate to call it resolution at all because it doesn't really resolve anything; their relationship is still in a pretty uncertain place and kissing hardly changes that. But it's the first time they both admit what's going on between them and do something, however small, about it. And it provided some small measure of satisfaction for the fans, who were just beginning to realize that was all we were going to get. I remember being so hopeful, so excited, 13 years old, watching in awe as finally, *finally* the two of them "got together." I hadn't realized it was the season finale, although really it was pretty obvious (I didn't know cartoon shows *had* season finales). And I certainly hadn't realized it was, for all intents and purposes, the end." [Of course, I know now what I didn't know in October 2005-- it wasn't the end! We have a comic book!]
"But I digress. Anyway, I noticed two things today. First, in HM1, during the scene on the subway: after he dispatches the muggers, Elisa goes to Goliath, lays her head down on his chest, and says, "Nobody messes with my best friend." I always thought that was kind of a dangerous thing to say in public, although sweet. But I noticed today the way that Goliath reacts to it. Maybe I never noticed before, or maybe I just don't remember, but he reaches to touch her hair and then stops himself, grimaces, and pulls away. It happens so quickly it's easy to miss it. But something about that aborted gesture of affection really intrigues me.
"Did he stop because he thought she wouldn't appreciate the sentiment? Haven't we seen him touch her that way before? It's hard to remember because the two of them get so very few explicitly affectionate moments. There aren't a lot of episodes that deal with them. (The most obvious is The Mirror, but that was so long before this that it's hard to use it as an indication of their relationship now. Although there is that moment, while Demona and Puck are spying on them via the mirror, when Elisa sort of nuzzles her face into Goliath's shoulder. I'd love to know what the conversation was that led her to do *that*...) Their relationship is very clear to the viewer, but it's also very understated. Any romantic moments like that are part of some larger scene, some larger conversation, etc. (I was half-convinced, when I was a kid, that it was because Disney didn't want to deal with the xenophilia aspect. Now I can see that it's in character for them to act that way; both of them know what's going on but they can't admit it, can't act on it because they're certain there's no future in it. But when you're 12-13 years old you miss some of the subtler points <g>.) So, while I can think of romantic moments between Goliath and Demona, MacBeth and Gruoch, etc, Goliath and Elisa are much more subtle than that.
"So then I went picking through episodes looking for Goliath/Elisa moments. (Aren't they cute in Eye of the Beholder, dancing in their Halloween 'costumes'? Even the trio notices. "They should have Halloween more often.") As early as Awakenings 5, we see Elisa take his face in her hands. The closest embrace I can find is in Heritage, after Elisa's disappearance. They both look pretty happy to see each other there, and she doesn't show any reluctance to touch him or be held by him.
"So anyway, it could be because he thinks she won't appreciate the gesture. She has shied away from discussing their relationship in the past. Or it could be because they're in a train full of people (although, again, she's pretty much given them away to everyone on the train already).
"Or it could be because he doesn't want to let himself touch her? Because letting himself caress her hair (the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss, even if Elisa doesn't necessarily know that) means pretending, if only for a moment, that they have a relationship? And because he can't stand doing that to himself over and over again? Something to think about, anyway.
"The other thing that I noticed was that, although Goliath saw Elisa kiss Jason and heard what she said about her feelings, she doesn't know that. As far as she knows, nothing between them has changed since HM1. Obviously they're both happy to see each other after Jason rescues her (although Goliath is probably "happier" than Elisa is; at least, she didn't think he was dead). But nothing has happened, to her knowledge, to bring things between them to a head. So why does she finally decide to admit her feelings to him? Her dialogue doesn't really tell us anything, either. He says, "So... Things have come full circle," and Elisa replies, "Somehow, they always do. You know how I feel about you, right?" She brings it up apropos of nothing. (He doesn't seem startled by it, either. Why is that? I sure as heck was!)
"Is it her relationship with Jason? The realization that, even when presented with someone human who seems to be everything she's looking for (at least at first), she still wants Goliath? When offered the normal life she thinks she wants, she still chooses Goliath and the clan, and all the uncertainty and upheaval they imply. Is that it? Of course, they've had a traumatic couple of days, and that could be a reason all by itself."
At that point I decided that I'd spent way too much time analyzing things and that I really ought to be doing work, so I stopped. But I'm still intrigued by it all. I guess if I had to distill it down into a few questions, they would be:
1) Is there a reason for Goliath's gesture (or lack thereof) on the train, or am I thinking too hard/paying too much attention to tiny details?
2) Does Elisa know that touching hair is the gargoyle equivalent of a kiss? (Maybe not in so many words, since I doubt the gargoyles think of it in terms of how their gestures of affection are equivalent to human gestures, but does she realize the sort of underlying meaning of a touch like that?) And if so, how does she know? Just from observation and intuition? Did someone tell her?
3) Why does Elisa finally speak up at the end of HM3? What changes her mind about keeping quiet?
Thanks for listening to me ramble on a bit, and for taking the time to answer our questions. It's only out of love that we analyze every aspect of things :)
Greg responds...
1. I think all your thoughts are right on target, and the gesture (or lack thereoff) was certainly intentional on our part.
2. She does by now, yes. Whether she did then... I'd have to look again.
3. Events. Momentum. Passion. Change. Or whatever you decide.
I liked your ramble, btw.
Rachel N. writes...
Hello, Greg.
One of my favorite episodes of Gargoyles is "Eye of the Beholder" (from Season 2). Whose idea was it to have Elisa wear Belle's gold ballgown as her Halloween costume? Was it your idea? Are you a fan of Disney's Beauty & the Beast?
Greg responds...
I think it was my idea, but it was so long ago, I'm not entirely sure. And, sure I'm a fan. But the point is that Elisa's a fan.
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I just got comic #3 in the mail yesterday, and after reading it, I'm very excited! I'm so happy to have new Gargoyle stories written by you. For many years I have told my friends how I miss Gargoyles so so much... And when I say that, I meant new stories.
The art in comic #3 I think more like the TV show then the first two. (And I think it looks great!) I was quite surprised by what happened with Goliath and Elisa though. For some reason, I never thought Elisa would do that. Especially after Hunter's Moon. I don't know, I guess I am just a hopeless romantic, heh. But I guess I can't really relate to Elisa. I don't care so much about having kids, and having the normal family life... But it's important to me to be love with someone who loves me. I am in a long distance relationship, and have been for almost two years. I love my boyfriend so much and even though our relationship is hard because he lives on the other side of the world, I wouldn't change it for anything. (We see each other a few times a year, and he will be moving here after next year, but that's besides the point) I guess I just felt like Goliath and Elisa's love was strong enough to over come anything, but I guess not... Or at least, Elisa is not thinking of that at that moment... I really look forward to more comics, and I really want to know what happens with Goliath and Elisa... I'm so happy though about these comics being made!
Greg responds...
Stay tuned... or, uh, stay turning the pages... or poised to turn pages...
You get the idea.
The last word on Goliath & Elisa has not -- and I think this comes as no spoiler -- been written yet.
Charisma82 writes...
Hey! I've wanted to do rambles on all the gargoyles' episodes, and have only gotten around to the first one. So I wouldn't forget anything, I wrote my ramble as I watched the episode instead of summing it all up and highlighting certain things. I did the same thing with the Gargoyles Comic Book #3: Invitation Only. I went through page by page and wrote about each one. I did this so I wouldn't forget anything. So, since it is kinda long, here are the first 12 pages.
Gargoyles: Clan-Building
Part Three: Invitation Only
Part 1 Pages 1-12
Page 1: At first glance, I thought that the invitation on the table had been sent to Washington and that I was looking at the president's desk, or something like that, until I looked at the next page. I really like the mask next to the invitation. I also like how Alexander's name was included on the invitation. I wonder what he'll be doing while his parents are at their party. Will he be with them or somewhere else… (I'm not lingering off here to sound mysterious, I just didn't know what else to put).
Page 2: I love Alexander's costume. I also like the quote, "Sure, Manhattan may be infested with real monsters, but it's not like the beasties can talk, right?" People are really trying to make them look like horrible monsters, and to do that, they make them look unintelligent and degrade them. But then again, how many of these people have really met one?
Page 3: I like that Matt is in charge of the taskforce and not Elisa. It gives him a bigger role to play and it doesn't make Elisa look like the biggest Gargoyle fan out there. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's better to lay low and not have stupid people ruining her life because they know she's a gargoyle lover (talking about the average Joe out there who wants to vandalize stuff and needs a good reason to do so). I also like being introduced to new characters. I hope to see more of the new detectives.
Page 4: I like Morgan's line, "Uh, detective… I mean… Elisa…" It's weird to hear his voice in my head say her name, cause he's always calling her detective. I was also I bit weirded out with him asking Elisa out. I just can't see the 2 of them together or thinking that Morgan has a thing for her. I always saw him as an older mentor type to her. Him actually calling it a date made it even… well… weirder.
Page 5: I love this page. Matt totally distrusts Hacker, and acts like he'd rather stick his head in a trashcan instead of talk to him. He also acts disgusted with him. It's all good. I like how Hacker makes Matt use their code when Matt could've done without it. "Formalities must be observed." Matt's face is priceless when Hacker puts his arm around him. I should probably mention something about Hacker's speech about the world not being ready to have gargoyle and humans together yet, just to set myself up for when I mention his other speeches with Xanatos and Castaway. Well… I guess I just mentioned it.
Page 6: It's good to see Jason again. I miss not hearing his voice; it's a good thing I've got it stored up in my head. I didn't expect to see him handcuffed to his bead. I find it almost humorous, handcuffing a paralyzed guy to his bed. But then again, he's full of surprises. His conversation with Elisa is typical. He still holds a spark for her and she's second-guessing her relationship with Goliath. It had to come up eventually. It's also pretty clear that he doesn't want to see Elisa with a gargoyle. There's still some dislike going on there for the species, I think. I do hope that Jason finds someone else though. He deserves a second chance.
Page 7: More breaking out of stone. It's funny to see Elisa trying not to get hit with stone. It's interesting to see Angela and Broadway holding hands now. They don't seem worried to show that they like each other. I also like Brooklyn's look over from the corner.
Page 8: You can see more of Angela's naiveté here with her not knowing much about Halloween. Elisa looks reluctant to speak with Goliath, but goes on with it and confronts him.
Page 9: What a teaser! What did the gargoyles decide to dress up as? I can't wait to find out in the next comic. I really don't like that Brooklyn is folding his wings underneath his arms now. Is that going to be a new permanent thing? Are you trying to distinguish his look by doing this? It just doesn't look right. I like the hint at where Hudson and Bronx are going to be going. All I have to say is that I hope they are going where I think they're going. I also like how Lex is still weary of Fox. After Broadway tells Angela that no one will know that they are gargoyles, her follow up question is a good one. "And that's a good thing?"
Page 10: Now to the more emotional page. Goliath is taken off guard and backs away when Elisa says that their feelings "are not enough." She makes a good point. How can Goliath argue with her reasoning? The line, "Goliath, I want children…" was a big hit on him, I think. He is actually speechless after this.
Page 11: Again with Hacker and his "formalities". More number stuff. I like the up close looks on Hacker and Xanatos' faces when they give their numbers. Xanatos is as calm as ever and Hacker looks about the same. I had to go back and look at Matt's face when he said his number on page 5. He looks annoyed. Anyways, back to page 11. Hacker looks funny with the mask on his face. It's also interesting to hear Xanatos speak of a "phase one." Him and his plans and phases. Too bad Xanatos can't go to his party. I guess he won't be playing host.
Page 12: I almost missed this page and went right to page 13. It's a good thing I went back and looked. More of Hacker's teasing lies. He says one thing to Matt, and another to Xanatos. Exactly when is he telling the truth? Who knows except you, Greg? Xanatos seems to tolerate this guy. I get the feeling he doesn't like him much, though. It's just the way he talks to him.
Okay, so there's my ramble on the first half of the 3rd comic book. Hope you didn't fall asleep or anything like that.
Thank you for your time, your patience, and a great comic book.
-Charisma82
Greg responds...
I don't see Morgan as a mentor to Elisa -- after all, Elisa had already made detective the first time they met in Awakenings -- just someone she thought of as a friend and co-worker. But I think there are hints in the tv series that Morgan may have other feelings for Elisa.
Shannon 'Shan' Muir writes...
Forgive me if this is in the archives and I couldn't come up with the right keywords. Is Goliath the first thing Elisa's ever had in the way of a serious relationship? Between the fact we know she was very job focused from the beginning, and the heavy amount of almost childlike naivete in how she describes her dreams to Goliath in Issue 3, I'm inclined to think that this is the case that she's never been anywhere near a balanced work-life relationship before. But I'm not certain.
Greg responds...
I guess it depends how one defines "serious relationship". I don't think she's ever been engaged to be married in the past. But she's had a serious boyfriend or three. Guys she was in love with. But I think she'd be redefining for herself what "love" meant now that she knows Goliath.
Maria writes...
If Goliath and Elisa had chidren what would they name them?
Greg responds...
I have no response to this question. Sorry.
Liz writes...
I've been a fan of Gargoyles since the show first came out, and that hasn't changed. I know Broadway and Angela end up together, but early on I got the impression that Broadway sort of had a crush on Elisa. (IE, showing up randomly at her place to grab a meal or watch a movie, and so on) Was that in any way true, or was my thirteen-year-old self just reading too much into it at the time?
Greg responds...
I think Broadway really liked Elisa -- and appreciated her... uh... feminine influence. But I don't think he ever had a sexual interest in her.
Makhasu writes...
Who does Demona hate most: Goliath, Macbeth, or Elisa?
Greg responds...
I feel like I've answered this already. But even if I haven't... Why quantify something unquantifiable.
But if I had to guess, I'd say Elisa.
Makhasu writes...
What does Elisa think of Delilah? It must be pretty disconcerting to know there's a clone of her and Demona.
Greg responds...
As of issue #2 of the comic book, Elisa hasn't seen Delilah in person. But knowing someone like Delilah exists is probably disconcerting enough.
JJ Gregarius writes...
Another thought about Bonkers...
At one point here, you said
By the way, the Miranda/ Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?)
Yes, that seems extremely strange, given some of the more salient aspects of the Elisa/Goliath relationship. Could you elaborate on what you meant? Are you just talking about pairing up a human female lead with a non-human male lead in crime-fighting stories?
Perhaps one day I'll have a bona-fide Gargoyles question to ask here.
Until then, JJ signing off.
P.S. Here's hoping the Gargoyles comics are thriving by the time you read this.
Greg responds...
I'm hoping they're thriving too. It's hard for me to tell.
Anyway, yes, that's all I meant. A human female cop fighting crime with an inhuman (but very human) male "partner".
Nothing romantic going on between Bonkers and Miranda. Bonkers only has eyes for Fawn.
Blaise writes...
THE GATHERING, PART ONE
Hey Greg! Good to see you rambling again. I'm going to have to do a little mini-marathon to catch up, so without further ado....
When this episode first aired I had figured that this would be the ep when the Travelers (finally) got back to home base and the rest of the regular cast. I, for one, was looking forward to this, if for no other reason than to see more of my favorite character (Brooklyn).
Seeing the Gathering on Avalon was a nice little "curtain call" for the many supernatural beings the Travelers had encountered on the World Tour. Other than those we had met, Nought definitely had the most striking design (it also helped that he was pretty well featured for a walk-on).
I agree with you about Anubis--he should not be laughing. That part never seemed quite right to me.
It amuses me how, when the Banshee and Odin are fighting, Oberon at first enjoys the action immensely, but as soon as his mirror is nearly damaged he calls an end.
I may be alone in this, but I don't feel too sorry for the Banshee--she was a bit of a pain.
Selene (sp?) is in full fury mode here (I love her eagerness in offering to hunt down Puck).
I also enjoy Princess Katharine's reaction to Oberon contacting her magically.
I've always wondered what Renard thinks of Petros Xanatos. I'd imagine that they might have got along well enough, despite Renard's enmity towards David.
I hadn't figured out Titania and Anastasia were one and the same until Anastasia started talking. Only here did I recognize them as both having the same voice actress and draw the connection.
Of course I didn't get the Owen/Puck connection (or refused to--I'll explain later).
I, too, loved Vogel's reaction to Petros' question about him being related to Owen (an honest question if you ask me).
The child is born. And (for those of us who read the credits of FUTURE TENSE) we already knew his name (and what he'd probably look like all grown up).
Watching the bit with the jogger pouring out his drink after his "hallucination" this last time, I felt myself thinking that, while it's a nice old gag, I'd kind of like to see it with a new twist. For example, instead of pouring out the offending substance, after seeing the supposed hallucination, the subject instead smiles and starts chugging it.
The hypnotized guard is funny. The late Charles Hallahan did a great job with both that and Travis Marshall's snide "...both of them ex-convicts..." line. Great copy and great performance.
The confrontation in the Xanatos' bedroom was very well done. Oberon's reaction to Fox being Titania's daughter is, of course, a high point, but there are smaller things that stand out to me as well. Seeing a young and healthy Renard is a plus, and I love that Fox visibly reacts to seeing Xanatos' gun behind his back (it's small and if your attention is on Xanatos you wouldn't notice it).
As I was watching this time, I thought about Oberon's lines about how Xanatos should take comfort in having "fought admirably for [his] child against impossible odds," and that they have an hour to say good-bye before he takes Alexander away forever because Oberon is "not without a heart." These lines, looking at the words alone, are essentially making things more painful and frustrating for the Xanatos' (insult to injury, as it were), but Oberon does not intend them that way. He's actually being honest, maybe even paying compliment to them, and (in his own mind) is being nice about the whole thing.
In a way it reminds me of Xanatos' line to Derek in THE CAGE--"He's the scientist, you're just the experiment." Xanatos wasn't trying to hurt or insult Derek with that statement, he was just stating the fact of the matter. Similar to Oberon here, the words used by the speaker seem more hurtful than the speaker's intent.
I suppose all this is just a roundabout way of saying Oberon really is Xanatos' comeuppance. :-)
THE TRAVELERS FINALLY COME HOME!!!
Man, I was so happy to have them back on home territory and ready to get back to stories with the rest of the regular cast in their given setting. The World Tour was a nice way to expand and show more gargoyles, but there really is "no place like home."
When Goliath is telling about all the gargoyles around the world he sounds positively giddy. He's even SMILING! Of course he's been smiling since they got back, but here...it's just that seeing Goliath this happy is a bit uncommon.
The Trio of course has their first introduction to Angela...and I kind of suspected this would be the cause of a few waves with them. Three guys and ONE girl…oh, yeah, trouble. The bit with the chocolates is funny, too. And after tasting just ONE chocolate, Angela says, "I think I'm going to like it here." BEHOLD! The power of CHOCOLATE!!
Seeing Goliath and Elisa on her terrace...the first time I watched this, I had already decided that they were going to kiss or something by the end of the season. When G brought E back home, I thought, "This is going to be it!" Then Elisa had to be a party pooper and stop it (and my, wasn't that rain a convenient way of breaking it off).
This latest viewing, I found myself thinking, "...She left her lights on, the electric bill's going to be bad. Wait...how long have they been gone, exactly? It's a miracle she still even HAS her apartment--all the months she wasn't there to pay rent! What, does she pay several months in advance?!" Being a budding actor I have found myself struggling to cover such bills for the past two years, consequently thoughts like that have a tendency to occur to me.
Anastasia/Titania's revelation of herself to the gargoyles was a bit too quick for me, but there's only so much time in the average episode.
I love that the evacuating workers are actually questioning why they're being evacuated (I heard someone mumbling "fire drill"). It's a little detail I like.
The force field surprised me a bit, both because it's something we hadn't really seen before in the series, and because it was actually effective.
I love how Oberon goes from being amused to being pissed off when his magical bolt doesn't break the force field.
Nice effect where his eyes glow green when the lightning flashes.
Seeing Oberon wreak the one car makes me feel sorry for the car's owner (hope the owner's got good insurance). Then he puts everyone in the city to sleep and I start to wonder how many people might die (killed in a car accident, fell asleep while on a ladder or stairs, etc.) because of this. A lot of people are going to be inconvenienced by something they have absolutely no idea about (kind of like Vinnie!).
Oberon's put the city to sleep and both Petros and David Xanatos are in the "war room" with the former asking, "Has the attack begun?" I find that hilarious.
And then Oberon grows up ("Enuk-cha!"). That last shot of his laughing face through the glass of the atrium is great, especially as a cliffhanger.
Here, at the end of my ramble, it's time to talk about Owen. Now, of course he's acting weird but....
Okay, when this ep first aired I watched it with my brother. Now, I was the GARGOYLE nut in my family. My brother and mother thought it was all right and would watch it from time to time, but I was the one who lived, breathed and slept it. So, my bro and I watch this and my bro turns to me and says, "Owen's got to be Puck." And because it was my brother who said this, I disagreed with him. It wasn't that I didn't think it was possible Owen and Puck were the same (in fact, it seemed to me like a distinct and intriguing possibility), but it galled me that my brother (who would NEVER admit to being wrong) would be right about this. The fact that GARGOYLES was MY thing and not his made me more adamant.
Of course, in the end he was actually right...but I can't recall being disappointed about it in this case. It was just too cool of a twist.
On to part two, now....
Greg responds...
One has to assume that by "Night of the Panther" at least, Elisa had made some arrangement to deal with bills and etc.
angel writes...
after hunters moon part 3 is there any more reviling eips on goliath's and Elisa's relationship
Greg responds...
Read the comic, and you'll see the answer is yep!
Idril writes...
Hi i have a question about galith adn elisa. dose xanatose, puck, foxe, macneth, the mutates including derik, the rest of the gargoyles or any one ealse know about Galiths relationship between elisa?
Greg responds...
What's to know? That they like each other? It's not exactly a secret. As to the extent of their feelings... which they've hardly (or at any rate barely) admitted to each other out loud, I think it all depends on how ... intuitive each of the people you listed are and/or how much opportunity they've had to observe Goliath and Elisa together.
I would think that Xanatos, Fox and Puck get it.
The clan, especially Angela and Hudson and Broadway and Bronx and Brooklyn and Lex, get it. (I started out writing Angela only, but as I considered each character, I couldn't find one who didn't get it.)
Macbeth... I don't know. It's not that I don't think he's intuitive, but he just hasn't spent enough quality time with the couple to have the chance to observe. And I think that maybe in "Sanctuary", he might have been distracted and/or a tad self-absorbed.
Mutates... same thing. How much have they seen of Goliath & Elisa together? Derek is, I think, the densest of the four mutates. But I'm not sure any of them have had the observation time to figure it out.
If they try to kill ya u gotta kill them first writes...
Hi, Greg. I know you open these for the gathering thing but i got these questions and comments...ya know, it is a nice oportunity. I would love LOVE going to the Gathering but as i am on the other point of the continent (:P) like, i cannot go... Gargoyles is geting very popular here, in Argentina, but i would want to know if the dvd or the comics are going to be able here? :) so the south people can enjoy gargolyes more?:) Jo, anyway, great show, great story, great characters, great drawings and...great me! hahaha.
Fine, now comments and questinos, if u wanna escape, these is the rigth moment:
Demona is one of the best characters i have ever seen before, and i love the contrast that she has with Magnetto, althougt she is, well, crazy.
I get what feelings the poor Goliath still had for Demona, and what feelings Demona had for Goliath, but the others members of the clan once had a close relaitionship with her as well, like "sister-brothers" "daugther-father". So ( i know about Brooklyn, very expresive the guy) what did feel Broadway and Lexingston about that? I mean, if my sister would get mad and because, let´s say, a dog kill someone she loves, now she would be trying to destroy all the dogs of the world:S i would be really...sad?.
It´s the same with Hudson, he ´d seen Demona since her most tender infance, looking her grown up from that little hatchling to that powerfull and nobel warrior she once was. Actually, he was her father. So same question, what did cross his mind every time he see her then in the new millenium? It must be very frustrating.And as we are with him, if Demona was part of the clan no more, they would still be like a daugther and a father, by teorical terms?
And Elisa, she is such a nice person! But althougth all the times Demona has tried to hurt her, Elisa seems to get more anger whenever Xanatos or Tony Dracon tryes something than when Demona does. Why is that she react so "professional" when is Demona who "pops-up" ?
Tempation: Jo, great episode however not the best.
Nice detail: i LOVE that posture of Demona after Brooklyn tryed to take the book away from her for the first time: leaning against the wall, huging the arcanorum as it would be Goliath him-self (XD)looking lunatically from the shadows. It was then when i thougth: something happened to these girl!.
To think: Gargoyles can really keep a groudge for a long time, and not just Demona but then Lexingston and now Brook, c´mon people, let it go!.
I think Demona wasn´t really lieng to Brooklyn...yes she screw it up, but i think she really has a point. Always she has that nasty point of view that makes you think " fuck, she is no so wrong".
Long way to morning: It´s great if you want to see scared things but, i really didn´t like the Demona of the past in these one, she acts very similar to the present, not exactly but...she was nasty.
Reawaking: I love these one, how the clan learns that the people is important and no the place where the people is, how they got more "civilizated". very nice lesson.
The mirror: It´s the first time someone subdue demona in how much time? These episode, i think, it´s the only one ( after high noon) in wich Demona appears that i laugh. Awesome, but why did Demona hesitate when Puck asked her what did she want? It´s not the destruction of human race always on her mind?
City of stone: And everything got sense!! I cried at the end :( poor demon. And that make me ask was the humans hate what drive her on the way she was or it was the lonlyness what twist her brain?
High noon: hahahahahahahahahahahaha...GREAT END!! "Why are we working together!?""grrrr"
Avalon: Macbeth and Demona working together...Woaho.
Well that´s all for now. I really REALLY hope you understan all that crap, i did my best to write in pure english(:P)and if you did not... i am really sorry. A last think!! In ascending list: Whoose of these characters she hates most?: Macbeth, the hunters, Goliath, the rest of the clan, Elisa, the rest of human race, Puck, Thailog. Thanks for your time, bye :)
Greg responds...
In the future, numbering your questions would really help me out. Also please avoid using curse-words in this forum. We try to keep it PG.
1. I'm afraid I don't know where the DVDs are available internationally. Have you tried Amazon.com?
2. Broadway and Lex may not have been THAT close to Demona in the Tenth Century. She was too young to be a maternal figure to old to be a Rookery Sister, and perhaps too imposing and/or prickly to be a friend. So her betrayal of the clan, is just that: a betrayal of the clan, not a personal betrayal. Which is not to say that they don't take it personally, cuz I'm sure they do. But they don't feel personally betrayed. Does that make sense?
3. As for Hudson, he is Demona's father. So I think it's much tougher on him. The only saving grace, such as it is, is that I think by the time of the massacre, Hudson had a clearer sense of Demona's true nature. I think deep down the betrayal was less of a shock to him then it was to Goliath. Not that he wasn't surprised. You can see how warmly he greets her in "Awakening, Part Four" when she first resurfaces. But in the end and darkly, I think her role in things saddens but doesn't shock him. I also think he CHOSE to focus his real hatred on Hakon Clan-Slaughterer.
4. I don't know if I agree with your assessment of Elisa vis-a-vis Demona. Certainly Dracon is able to get under Elisa's skin, but I think the thing to keep in mind is that Dracon is HER nemesis. Not Goliath's. Hers. Not that Goliath hasn't been of use there, but Dracon isn't super-human. He's a crook. She's a cop. Dealing with Dracon is HER job. As for Elisa and Demona, I think there are plenty examples of Elisa revealing her true feelings for Demona (in "The Mirror", in "Vows", in "High Noon", etc.) And they aren't without ire. But Elisa didn't lose her clan to Demona. So it's not the same thing.
5. In "The Mirror", Puck had already made the point that he didn't have the power to giver her absolutely anything she wanted, i.e the destruction of the entire human race. So she had to pick a more specific wish. That put her at a brief loss.
6. Loneliness, I believe, was a huge factor in creating the present day Demona. Not the only factor. But a big one.
7. Well, this is a little pointless, but if I have to rank your list, at this time, i.e. as of issue #1 of the comic book, I'd put 'em in this order of hate:
Elisa
Hunters
Thailog
Goliath
Macbeth
human race
rest of clan
Puck
Susan Leonard writes...
Something has always bothered me about the way the clan reacts to Elisa's hysterical sobbing on the hay at the end of the Metamorphosis episode. Why doesn't at least Goliath,who has more than a platonic interest in her at this point, go over to comfort her. The whole episode evolved with Brooklyn wanting to pursue Maggie due to his compassion over what she had gone through. I thought the episode was wonderfully done otherwise. I was despite knowing Xanatos always had some kind of agenda was willing to bite at first when he seemed shocked that Derek became a victim of Sevarius' mutagenic dart.
Greg responds...
I just think it's honest that sometimes big dumb guys (read the entire male population) don't know how to best handle public displays of emotion. We're not culturally trained.
But the other thing to keep in mind is that you're only seeing a fragment. The most dramatic, painful fragment, but a fragment nonetheless. You don't know what came before or after. Did she already tell them to give her a moment alone, and then when she broke down they didn't know how to respond (see above)? Or did Goliath head her way just after the scene ended?
I've been taken to task in the past for answers like this. Told that I was "cheating". That if it wasn't on screen, I can't fall back on the wiggle-room of what might have happened off-screen. But I don't think that's fair. 22 minutes an episode is all I get. (Or 24 pages an issue, which is a lot less, believe me.) I can't possiblly fit the entire range of responses to anything into that time. There MUST be off-screen moments. I go for the big punch on screen, as long as I feel that it's honest and not gratuitous, but there must be more.
Bruno writes...
Hi, Greg,
Suddenly, this came to me: it looks like nobody ever asked this, so, how did Elisa get that amazing car of hers?
Thanks.
Greg responds...
I'm thinking she bought it.
Anonymous writes...
was it planned for elisa and goliath to fall in love
Greg responds...
Yep.
Magus10 writes...
After a few hours of perusing through the archives and "unanswered questions," I think these are questions that haven't been answered yet. If these questions were answered, I apologize. This list of questions will have to do with Elisa Maza.
Knowing that Elisa Maza is half Native American/African American, does she struggle with the duality of being of mixed cultures? If asked the question "what racial aspect she feels more related to?" what would her response be (if any)? As a child, how would being of two different descents affect Elisa?
I've also noticed within the series that she is close to her parents, but gravites towards her father (i.e. "Her Brother's Keeper"). Did something happen in the past to make her gravitate that way or is it "Daddy's little girl" type of thing?
I know the name of the show is "Gargoyles," but I have always been intrigued at the fact that Elisa Maza didn't have strong outside relationships with anyone outside the police force and the gargoyles. Is it because she's too busy on the force? Is it because she's a loner at heart? Was there a plan to have her outside friends/relationships shown within the series?
You've stated before that Elisa has been in romantic relationships. What is her preference towards men? I know that she finds traits exemplified in Goliath as attractive, but this is more of a superficial question and I'm looking for answers that deal with a racial, religious and financial aspects. Yes, I'm horrible.
You've stated earlier that she's bee in romantic relationships, but not to the point of marriage because no one has ever been that close to her -- why is that? There are probably too many influences to state, but I just want to know about the most prominent influences.
There are probably more questions brewing in my head, but I see that you're bogged down already; therefore, all I can do is wish for my questions to be replied someday.
Greg responds...
In the future, numbering your questions would be helpful. I'll divide your questions by paragraph.
2a. I'm sure she struggles a bit.
2b. I think Elisa probably relates to being African-American a bit more than Native American as her mother studies her heritage and her father had (for most of Elisa's life) rejected his. But I don't think she'd respond well to the question, frankly.
2c. I'm not going to use this forum to right a dissertation long answer. I'm sure there was some societal ostracism here and there. Elisa's different. Her ethnic background isn't always immediately obvious from looking at her. This causes some confusion for OTHER people. And that confusion can indeed effect a child. But Elisa was raised in a good home, surrounded by love and a fairly concrete ideal of right and wrong transcending the petty. I think she did fairly well.
3a. Probably a bit of Daddy's little girl. Probably also a natural bent. Elisa is bright, but she's a doer like her father. She didn't follow her mother into acadaemia; she followed her father onto the force. Beth, though choosing to study her Native American heritage, is much more like her mom. Derek is somewhat trapped. He probably would have been better off just following his own path -- to the sky, most likely. Flying was his great passion. But he felt (mostly internal) pressure to follow dad and big sis onto the force. That led to a backlash, which brought him under Xanatos' sway. Now he lives underground.
4a. I'm not sure I agree with your premise here. Elisa had a VERY strong relationship with her family. Plus I think she has friends. The fact that most of those friends are cops, is hardly surprising, since most of us pull our friend pool from our environment. I don't think that Elisa dates much. She would, I think, be very hesitant to date cops or lawyers that she works with. (It's dicey even today for a woman to date co-workers and still be taken seriously.) And she's sure not gonna date perps. And given her schedule, that limits her opportunity to meet people. We happenned to meet her between relationships, but I never thought she NEVER dated. The force does define her a bit. But not entirely.
4b. She's self-sufficient. Which is different. But she has a lot of love to give. And a cat.
4c. Eventually, all things.
5. Racially/ethnically, I don't think she's picky. Her parents' successful marriage; her attraction to Jason, her attraction to Goliath, certainly, indicates she's pretty open. Religiously? I don't know how much that would matter to her either, assuming values were shared. Financially. Well, she wouldn't want to date a bum, i.e. someone who wasn't first self-sufficient as she is. I think she has some traditional values and dreams... again modeled from her own family. But I think those values and dreams are pretty middle/working class, generally.
6. Main one: didn't meet the right guy. Otherwise, see above. She had a goal, a plan. To be a detective for the NYPD. She didn't want anything to stand in the way of that. Then she got there, and meeting eligible guys isn't that easy. Doesn't mean she wasn't looking or even hopeful.
7. Hope you're still around to read these answers.
Jessica Cariaga writes...
Hi Greg,
Does Elisa ever get married??? She is one of my favorite characters. Angela is my most favorite.
Greg responds...
My advice is to start picking up the comic book... In time, all will be revealed there...
Fllay Allster hater AND Kira Yamato hater writes...
Just a comment: I couldn't help to notice that detective Ellen Yin from "The Batman" has the same the color schemes as Elisa Maza.
Greg responds...
I've noticed that too. But I have to assume it's a coincidence. Red, black, blue isn't exactly an exotic choice for either character. I've worked on both series, and certainly, no one on The Batman has ever snuck up to me and whispered, "Ellen's a tribute to Elisa, you know."
snoop g'rgg writes...
Why didn't Xanatos use his power and influence to have Elisa kick off the force or have her kill?
Greg responds...
Why would he do either of those things? What possible motivation would he have? How would that aid his cause AT ALL?
Joey writes...
How did Elisa know how to wake up Sleeping King Arthur in Avalon part 3?
Greg responds...
The Magus filled her in off-camera.
French Kitty writes...
Hi Greg, how are you?
I know that you had a plan for Goliath and Elisa to go on a Halloween double-date. Would this be Elisa's decision? How long after Hunter's Moon III would this have taken place? How long after that would they have decided that that was pointless and become a couple? If the show comes back will this episode be aired?
Thanx, bye! >^-^<
Greg responds...
I won't answer this now, except to say BUY THE COMIC BOOK -- all will be revealed!
Ashley writes...
I've read that Elisa is based of Salli Richardson. i've been wondering since she is, is elisa's skin dark or white? its hard to tell on the tv but it looks white. which is it??? salli's skin is dark so i was wondering. thanks greg!
GARGOYLES FOREVER!
Greg responds...
Elisa's skintone is very similar to Salli's, I think. Though I may not be the best person to judge this. Elisa's mother is African American. Her father is Native American. She gets her skin more from her father, it seems to me. But she was never meant to be caucasian.
Angie writes...
It seemed that Brooklyn was chasing any female that could talk or had wings (maggie and angela)in "The mirror" was he atracted to Elisa as a gargoyle?
Greg responds...
Wasn't everybody?
French Kitty writes...
First of all, I just want to say that Gargoyles is the BEST cartoon series ever made! You and your working crew did an amazing job at bringing it to life.
So, yeah. My question:
Why doesn't Elisa ever change her clothes? I know she changes clothes and her closet is probably filled with a lot of black T-shirts and a lot of blue jeans, but she would have looked great in the outfits from the comics. Or at least something similar.
But nonetheless, I LOVE the show and I am crossing my fingers for more episodes!
I also can't wait for the DVD to come out! I am SOO buying it! Thanx for your time. >^-^<
Greg responds...
Well, she did change her clothes occasionally. La Belle Elisa dress that she wore on Halloween and "Eye of the Beholder". The tough girl outfits she put together for "Protection" and "Turf". The clothes she wore briefly in episodes like "Hunter's Moon, Part One" and "Eye of the Storm". The dress she wore in "The Journey". There may be a couple of more examples that I can't think of at the moment.
The short REALITY answer is that redesigning new clothes for her every episode would have been prohibitively expensive and cause multiple animation errors overseas. So we limited her wardrobe changes to situations where story called for it.
Think of her standard outfit as a dramatic conceit.
Within the show, I just think that's a look she's comfortable with. I pretty much where the same outfit everyday myself. Tennis shoes, jeans and a t-shirt. Of course I don't wear the same t-shirt everyday. I have black t-shirts, white t-shirts, red t-shirts. And most of them have some kind of decal or design on them. But...
Anyway, the plan for the comic book is to start giving her a wider variety of costumes. But we still love that red jacket, blue jeans and black t-shirt. So that won't go away.
Hardwing writes...
Why is Demona is always doing so poorly when she fights against Elisa?
I mean through her 1000 years of experiences in battle she should be a damned good warrior (considering that the Weird Sisters and the Archmage wanted her), so why has she lost against Elisa even in her gargoyle form(Avalon)?
Was it because she was ever such outraged that she became incautious? Or is Elisa truly the better fighter?
Greg responds...
I think that a few factors come into play.
I think that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting in human form, which is why she has difficulty in "High Noon".
I think on Avalon, she was under the Archmage's thrall, which dampened her own skills... as it dampened her free will.
And I think that Demona has an obvious rage problem, and since much of that rage is laser-focused on Elisa specifically, she often lets her anger get the better of her skills.
Also the battles have always been brief, with many distractions and third party interventions.
I think Elisa's pretty tough and savvy, but in any sustained conflict between the two, I'd absolutely put my money on Demona.
kadee writes...
why did u decide to put elisa maza and golith together?
Greg responds...
I might suggest that THEY decided. But beyond that, it was always the plan, from the moment that Goliath entered the development. We never considered any other alternative.
kazz writes...
hey i was wondering why you made elisa kiss galith. does she love him? i havn't seen that episode yet but i want to.
Greg responds...
Yes, she loves him. Though she's barely admitted that to herself, let alone him.
Greg Guler Responds...
Hey gang...
The other day, I got the following question here...
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I was just wondering, how tall is Elisa? I am an 18 year old female and I am pretty tall myself. I am 5'7. And Elisa seems like a tall woman to me. I was wondering if she is as tall as me or taller. Thank you Greg!
I responded...
I don't know. It would be a good question for my CreatureComics.com partner, art director, Greg Guler. I'll ask him.
Here's Greg Guler's response:
Hey guys. Although it's never been figured out in feet
and inches, I figure she has to be at least that tall
in order for her be as tall as she is with Goliath,
and make decent eye contact.
Greg G.
So there you go. You asked Greg, and a Greg answered. All part of the service here and at CreatureComics.com.
Audra writes...
Hi Greg,
I was just wondering, how tall is Elisa? I am an 18 year old female and I am pretty tall myself. I am 5'7. And Elisa seems like a tall woman to me. I was wondering if she is as tall as me or taller. Thank you Greg!
Greg responds...
I don't know. It would be a good question for my CreatureComics.com partner, art director, Greg Guler. I'll ask him.
holly writes...
do elisa and goliath ever become a couple?
Greg responds...
You mean they're not now?
Vinnie writes...
Hey Greg, my question is simple how long are the sleeves on Elisa's black shirt? Because I noticed in the episode "The Green" she has short sleeves and in "Sentinel" she has long sleeves in the scenes where Elisa takes off her jacket. This is most likely a typo unless Elisa had time to run home and get a change of clothes. Just thought I would mention it, because unless she was caring a change of clothes with her when they first set out for Avalon or unless she stopped off on the quest to buy a new shirt I don't see how her shirt could change so drasticly.
Greg responds...
I'd say at home, Elisa has both long and short sleeve black t-shirts, but she didn't exactly pack for the trip.
On the other hand, she did have plenty of opportunity to pick up some stuff (say in Paris) and plenty of motivation (you try wearing the same clothes for weeks on end). So maybe she bought a new shirt. Or maybe Princess Katharine sewed it for her on Avalon. (We didn't show it, but the Skiffers stopped back at Avalon between every adventure.)
My point is... if you want to view it as a mistake, be my guest. Congrats. You found one. But if you'd prefer to find an explanation for it, it's not exactly a challenge.
veronica writes...
what's with goliath/elisa?
aren't you going to hook them up?
Greg responds...
SPOILERS:
Eventually.
Todd Jensen writes...
A question about Elisa awakening King Arthur "early". Now, we know that Elisa awakened Arthur ahead of schedule, based on the information given in "Avalon Part Three" and "Pendragon", and that he was apparently originally supposed to be awakened somewhat later and for a different emergency than the Archmage (although we don't know what it was or how far away in time it would be).
What I'm curious about is: has Elisa thereby altered Arthur's destiny? To explain a little more about what I mean, I suppose that I'd better go into a brief "ramble".
We don't know much about the nature of fate or destiny in the Gargoyles Universe (beyond the fact that the Weird Sisters are linked to it, at least when Luna is the dominant one), but we can tell that it exists in some ways (such as Avalon sending people "where they need to be"). I don't know if it's actually supposed to be possible to "alter destiny" in the Gargoyles Universe, beyond the fact that we know that the past can't be altered (as Goliath and Demona have both learned the hard way), but since Elisa came to the Hollow Hill in her own time rather than in the past, her awakening Arthur obviously wouldn't count as changing history in the same way that somebody going back in time to, say, avert the Wyvern Massacre would. However, since the future is part of the time-stream (and I assume that the only 2198 in the Gargoyles Universe is the one where the Space-Spawn show up and take over the planet and there are no alternate 2198s where that event doesn't take place), it doesn't seem so probable that it can be altered.
On the other hand, we do know that carefully-laid plans that were devised, not by God or destiny or something of a transcendent nature, but by humans or gargoyles or the Oberati, can be changed through the actions of others. Demona and the Captain of the Guard's original plans to betray Castle Wyvern, for example, wound up having different results than those that they were expecting, thanks partly to Goliath's decision to only take Hudson with him, partly to Hakon's decision to smash the gargoyles at the castle in spite of the Captain's protests.
So what my real question is, I suppose, is this; was the original "future time" for Arthur's awakening (in which he will not be awakening after all thanks to Elisa) set by God or Fate or something of that nature, or was it set merely by people (as in, the ones who placed him in the Hollow Hill)? Has Elisa genuinely altered Arthur's future, or only altered his future as it was perceived by those who laid him to sleep on Avalon?
Greg responds...
It's a very interesting distinction isn't it? Does Destiny = Future?
Well, I'm thinking no. The future, as you stated, is part of the timestream. Actual events that happened in the future (from some kind of external perspective) are immutable.
But Destiny, to me at least, means something different. Destiny is about potential. It's not about a lock or a guarantee.
Individual characters may be loose with language, but I think that in the Gargoyles Universe, when one says a character is "DESTINED" to do X, what one means is that said character is destined to ATTEMPT X. Doesn't guarantee success. Success relies on a combination of indiviual and circumstance.
So, to your original question, has Elisa altered Arthur's destiny? I'd have to say... "MAYBE!!!!"
I mean actually, I know the answer to that question, but I just don't feel like answering it now. What I mean by "maybe" is that she certainly may have. She may have created a new destiny for him. She may have spoiled plans for the old destiny. And yet he may find his way back to that old destiny. Or what he does accomplish may not be exactly the original destiny, but winds up doing the same thing or sowing seeds for others to reep. Any or all of the above.
Miranda writes...
how old is Elisa?
Greg responds...
By the end of 1996, she was 28. So now in 2005, she's about 36 or 37.
Jessica writes...
Hello Greg!
First of all, I want to thank you for a show that had me hooked from the very first preview. I loved it when it first aired in the mid-nineties, and I think I appreciate it even more now. So....thank you!
I was wondering when you think the guys came to think of Elisa as a part of their clan. I know that it was at least by the time of "The Cage". I realize that that their trust and affection grew along and along, so it probably wasn't, say, the "seventh" time they saved each other's necks that it was official, but do you think that it was something that had to be discussed? Was there an announcment or did it even need to be said?
Greg responds...
I think that by "Her Brother's Keeper" Goliath was already viewing Elisa as part of the clan. Ironically, her role in moving them to the clock tower, a move he strenuously objected to, helped cement her position. His willingness to have Elisa reveal the truth about them to her brother demonstrates that he viewed her -- and thus by extension Derek -- as family.
But I think the final turning point was "The Mirror" and seeing her as a Gargoyle.
But as you noted, the whole thing was a progression. So I'd be open to other interpretations. It's a very good question and I'd be interested in hearing other points of view on the subject.
Chapter L: "The New Olympians"
Time to ramble...
Chapter L: "The New Olympians"
Story Editor: Gary Sperling
Writer: Adam Gilad
Director: Bob Kline
ORIGINS
Well, the Greek Myths of course. But that's not really what I'm talking about. As many of you know, The New Olympians was a concept -- originally created by Bob Kline -- that we began developing at Disney TV Animation even BEFORE Gargoyles. It was definitely a concept that evolved, but it was also a concept that we felt fit nicely into the Gargoyles Universe. So this episode was created as a backdoor pilot. At the time we had big plans for the Gargoyles Universe. Hopes that it would eventually evolve into Disney's equivalent of the Marvel or DC Universe. The World Tour expanded our Universe in many ways -- mostly for the sake of the Gargoyles series itself. But also to demonstrate that our universe had the "chops" to go the distance.
So the New Olympians were imported whole, like Athena from Zeus' head -- into the gargverse. The development for "The New Olympians" series focused on four major characters: Terry, Sphinx, Talos and Taurus. Terry and Sphinx were kept out of this episode on purpose -- so that we'd have fresh faces for the series if it went. Talos has a very minor role. But Taurus took a lead here. Other characters, such as Kiron, Ekidna, Helios, Boreas and, of course, Proteus were also part of the N.O. development. Though again, we left out a bunch of other characters: Xetes, Kalais, Medusa, Jove and Xanatos (yes, Xanatos) so that the whole series didn't become old news, should it get going.
The basic concept of the series, familiar to anyone who's attended a Gathering and seen the original pitch, was Romeo & Juliet. Terry is a human. Sphinx is a New Olympian. They are in love. But their "families" aren't making that love easy. This episode, would in essence be a PREQUEL to that series. Terry hasn't arrived yet. Elisa will help pave the way for Boreas' decision to finally reveal the New Olympians to the human world.
But another important inspiration was the work of Jack Kirby. In my recent ramble on "Eye of the Storm", I commented on how we strove to avoid a Kirbyesque Odin -- and didn't entirely succeed. Here, Kirby was a clear influence. I hope The New Olympians weren't a rip-off, but I can't deny that his Inhumans, his Eternals and his New Gods influenced us -- or me, at least -- when we were creating both New Olympus and our cast of characters.
Creating the cast was also interesting. We basically compiled a list of Greek & Roman myth-figures. Gods. Monsters. Titans. Etc. Then we tried to think about their descendants... Tried to think about which would be the most visually interesting. (A lot of the gods, for example, just look like glorified humans, so we tended to ignore them.) Originally, Kiron had the Taurus role and Medusa had the Sphinx role. But after talking with the artists, we made the double switch, because it was felt that having to animate a centaur and a woman with snaky hair on a regular basis was just inviting difficulties. As with many of these pragmatic decisions, I eventually fell in love with the new version -- and wouldn't want to go back, even if I could be assured of the highest possible animation quality.
In order to import this diverse group into the Gargverse, I posited that these were the descendents of mortals who mated with the Children of Oberon (or Mab). They therefore have incredible abilities and amazing appearances, but they are mortal. Some may have extremely long lives, but they do age. Still, before they left the human world behind, many of the original Olympians were treated as Gods. But some were treated as Monsters. As in Gargoyles, PREJUDICE would be a major theme of the series. In fact, if you look at the PREVIOUSLY of this episode, you'll see that it's fully thematic. All stuff about humans being prejudiced about Gargoyles. That's because we had nothing content-wise that we needed to set up. But if we set-up human prejudice, than it helped forge the twist of prejudice against humans, which Elisa would face in the episode. (I do wish we had thought to include Goliath's line: "Humans fear what they do not understand...")
So the New Olympians fled the Human World. They established a secret island and developed astounding technology... including a cloaking device. (I was always a touch disappointed with all the fog and mist in the opening scene. I wanted the skiff to suddenly be on the open sea, with nothing around for miles. The fog allowed for the notion that something might be hiding BEHIND it. I didn't want that. Still, I think the idea gets across. And the shimmer effect is nice. Plus, I like how Goliath abruptly spreads his wings when he enters it. When my daughter Erin saw the city finally materialize, she said: "Wow!")
OLD LINES IN NEW CONTEXT
Were we just out of dialogue ideas, or were we trying to make a point or an inside joke or something. I'll let you decide...
Goliath: "We cannot wage war against an entire city."
Elisa: "You'll have to do better than that."
VOICE WORK
Michael Dorn wound up playing Taurus and the late Roddy McDowell as Proteus. Dorian Harewood, who was originally cast as Boreas, also wound up playing Talos. But none of these three were our original choices for those rolls. Instead we cast three people who I thought would be perfect for their parts. But none hit it. It was one of our rare recordings that DIDN'T work. So we fell back on Michael to play the very Worf-like Taurus. (This sometimes bothers me as the voice is exactly the same as Coldstone's. But ultimately you go with the best hand you have at the time.) Dorian ended up doing double duty as Talos and was terrific. And of course, Roddy was just brilliant as Proteus.
What's interesting is that Proteus himself is not the greatest actor. Erin noticed... "There's something different in his voice." Of course, it's Keith David PLAYING Proteus playing Goliath. (Which is always fun.) And Keith hits the mark with precision. As does Salli & Michael when they're playing Proteus playing Elisa & Taurus. Sure Proteus always LOOKS the part -- thanks to his shape-shifting abilities. And I suppose he's less of a ham than Sevarius. But he never quite takes the time to truly "inhabit" his roles. Certainly, while playing Elisa and then Goliath, there are a number of small tip-offs in his choice of words that are just wrong. Like can you really imagine Goliath saying: "Who's that guy?" One assumes that his performance as Taurus' dad is equally off the mark.
The walla in the Senate House when Elisa is on trial isn't my favorite. We just didn't get enough coverage, so it repeats and repeats.
PREJUDICE
All of the New Olympians we see are prejudiced. Every one. Some are worse than others. Boreas is well-meaning, but wrong. Taurus is narrow-minded. Talos is, at best, only pragmatic -- not morally outraged by Elisa's treatment. Most of the others are just flat out racists. "New Olympians fear what they don't understand." I'm sure somewhere on the island there were some more enlightened individuals, but we made a point of NOT showing them.
I wanted to do a few things with that theme. (1) Show that prejudice breeds prejudice. The New Olympians have some legitimate grievances against the human race, but they've learned the wrong lessons from their ancient persecution. (2) Of course, we wanted to play the irony of the monsters being afraid of the "Humans of Legend". Elisa tells the Gargoyles to hide when they first land on the island. And she's the one that the New Olympians fear. They have "no quarrel" with the Gargoyles. And the best solution that even Boreas and Taurus can come up with is to "Quarantine" our girl. (3) There was a three. I had it in my head a minute ago. Now, for the life of me, I can't remember what it was.
Maybe it had something to do with Prejudice only truly being able to be attacked one person at a time. I went to an all boys high school. We were all so deathly afraid of being called homosexuals that a culture of homophobia was ingrained into all of us. It wasn't like I was going around gay-bashing. I like to think that even then, I had the sense and the control to stifle my prejudices. But I can't deny I had them -- probably still have them to some extent, unfortunately. Anyway, then I went to college. Acted in a couple plays with a guy I really admired -- both as an actor and as a human being. Became good friends with this guy (who had the amazing name Steve Wraith). THEN I discovered he was gay. By that time, I didn't care. He had personally won me over -- in a slightly less dramatic fashion then how Homer Simpson learned to accept gays after John Waters saved his life. Steve never saved my life, but I'm afraid the metaphor is VERY apt. I haven't seen Steve in twenty years, but I owe him a lot. A few years later my cousin came out. After that, many if not most of my friends came out. My sister. Etc. Steve paved the way to make me a better person. Conceptually, we can all talk about dismissing prejudice, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the only way we really learn is one human being at a time. That's why Goliath vouching for Elisa was ineffective. People are doomed to HAVE to figure things out for themselves. And unfortunately, some never do.
WHO KNEW THESEUS WAS SUCH A BASTARD?
And so we put Taurus through that process. He meets a human. His distaste is palpable. He knows the story of the Minotaur, his ancestor. [Now Theseus is one of my all time favorite characters from Myth. But I couldn't resist flipping the tale of the Labyrinth and telling it, if just for a few seconds, from the Minotaur's point of view.] But Taurus will learn to respect humans - one human at at time. Elisa and Taurus actually have a lot in common. Both are cops. Both have/had fathers who are/were cops. But as Elisa says, he's "got some funny ideas about justice."
Elisa is clearly more enlightened. In part, that may come from her own history. She grew up as a person of color in a largely white society. She's no stranger to prejudice. Being both African-American and Native American, it's possible that she has even faced some rejection from African-Americans and Native Americans as well. Clearly, based on her openness with regards to Goliath and the Gargoyles, she learned her lessons long before we met her. Pretty much from the moment she realized that Goliath could talk -- and was therefore sentient by human standards, she treated him as an equal. I always admired her for that. Unlike the New Olympians, she didn't let the prejudice she faced turn her into a bigot.
Taurus will eventually get the message. His prejudices don't just vanish. But he's learned something.
SOME NEAT MOVES
I like the sequence where Goliath comes to break Elisa out, and Proteus takes advantage of the situation by first turning into Elisa and then Goliath. (When Erin first saw him as Elisa, she said, "Uh oh." which is pretty much exactly what he was going for.
I like how Taurus threatens to fire Helios.
I like how Goliath turns to stone in Proteus' cell.
I like how Elisa takes charge -- and basically FORCES Taurus to partner up with her. She has two tip offs that Proteus is posing as Goliath. First the fact that he didn't turn to stone and blames it on the cloaking device affecting the sun's rays. Of course, Elisa knows that it's not literally the sun that turns a gargoyle to stone. It's his or her biological clock, which is often triggered by sunrise. But the real clincher is Proteus' plan to blow up the Collonadium. Elisa knows Goliath would NEVER do that.
I like when Taurus tries to express his admiration -- and still can't do it without insulting her species. Elisa takes it in stride: "I'll choose to take that as a compliment." Progress is slow.
THE NEW OLYMPIANS
We end the episode with a pretty blatant pitch for giving the New Olympians their own show. It's certainly shameless. But I make no apologies. I still contend that THE NEW OLYMPIANS would make a GREAT t.v. series.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Anonymous writes...
hey greg heres a question. when did goliath found out that he had feelings for elisa?
Greg responds...
I don't think he realized it until "The Mirror". But I think his feelings for her existed as far back as "Awakening".
MOONGAL writes...
You said Elisa and Tony Dracon had a history. What history was this?
Greg responds...
Whoah. I thought September 30th, 2002 would never end.
Anyway, they've had cop/crook encounters in the past. I'm not going to go into the whole story here.
Wingedbeast writes...
Ramble on Golem.
A great episode this.
On the climbing. I've got to say, my favorite Gargoyle shots are of them climbing. It best shows off how animalistic they are and how beautiful they are. It really drives home the "they aren't human" issue. They're creatures of instinct.
And, BTW, when Angela and Bronx are climbing up the tower, that's a great butt shot on Elisa. Gotta say. Elisa rocks. Strong woman that never gives up, protects her friends, has a sense of humor, and has a great butt.
If she's based off of anybody you know, mind introducing me? :)
Onto the rest of the ramble.
Max and Elisa parallel on that huge issue. They're the heroes beside the heroes. The difference is that Elisa started out that way. It's who she is. Considering who her parents are, it might even be an instinctive trait to her.
Max? Max isn't so lucky as to have Elisa's upbringing. He's probably had to learn that lesson that there are some things that are too powerful for him to overcome. So, he has to overcome that fear just to go into his destiny.
Elisa's learned quite the opposite lesson. Even within the series, she's learned that, even though there's always somebody bigger and stronger than she is, that doesn't really matter.
Renard gone mad. Oh come on, like you wouldn't destroy a few things if you got that kind of power. It's like a new toy. You play with it until you're through.
But, when Renard was through with the euphoria of the new toy, he was left with the cost. And, that was a great face shot of the Golem when Renard realized that he had become something. It also made sense that it was Goliath's words that finally got through.
He might, logically, have known that Elisa and Max were right, but he considered Goliath to be an equal. They both share that daily struggle of integrity. And, it's here where Goliath really repayed Renard for his lesson in Outfoxed, and reminded him of the daily struggle that is integrity.
The final fight sequence was something that struck me. 4 different heroes, 4 different styles. Max, the Golem, Goliath, and Elisa. Each very effective.
The first time I saw this, I saw the golem as a robot and Max as the mind behind it. Telling it what to do and, like a good little drone, it does it. Essentially making Max the mind. But, that scene with Brode over the big pit, last time I saw it, changed my mind. Instead of the golem's mind, the golem has it's own mind even if it is a primitive one, Max is the golem's heart.
If there were future episodes with the golem, I could see Max going through efforts to keep the golem from becoming like the monsters that he fights.
Can't wait for the ramble on "The Hound of Ulster"
Greg responds...
Elisa's based on Salli Richardson. She's in the upcoming movie, ANACONDA 2.
Totally agree with your heart/mind assessment, by the way.
Amanda writes...
Hi Greg! I have loved this show since i was 8 and now im 16 and im still watching the reruns! Anyway, i am a New Yorker and I think you did a great job of portraying the City realitically. But-one thing bothers me. In New York there are many precincts and youmade it seem like the only police department in the city was the one Elisa worked in. How come in any of the episodes you never see another precinct?
Greg responds...
We actually made an effort to portray this realistically. Elisa may get involved in investigating crimes that wind up taking her out of her precinct's boundaries, but she doesn't get started investigating crimes that don't begin within those boundaries. (If that's clear.)
Brad676 writes...
Will Goliath and Elsa get further into there relashiship
Greg responds...
Yup.
Talon writes...
Could Elisa have told the chief of police about her brother's condition after Metamorphosis or The Cage?
Greg responds...
Obviously, she could have. But she didn't.
Katalina Darkheart writes...
Hi Greg,
So I guess i'm in a way sort of a...um.."new" fan of gargoyles...i used to watch it all the time when i was younger but i guess i just had other things to do...but i'm watching it again now...way kul show dude...but i wantedto ask you...since i'm new and this is bugging the bejeepers out of me....does Elise Maza and Goliath ever put aside their differences and like wed r something?...i know i shuld continue watching the series....and i will try to watch it as much as i can...but disney likes to rerun them and they're not always in order...and now that i'm older unlike when i was a kid i have more responsibilities such as work and school that keep me from being able to watch it so i'd be extremely grateful if u'd fill me in on that subject...oh and heheh..Happy Birthday...may-b if i send it now it might reach u sometime around there...or if not merry christmas ^.^...heheh...see ya..
Greg responds...
Disney is actually pretty good about airing the episodes in order. Of course, we didn't get to tell all the stories we wanted to. I only worked on 66 episodes and they did 12 more after I left and that's it.
So the short answer is, no, Goliath and Elisa do not get married by the end of the 66 or 78 episodes.
What happens in the future is another story.
The Soulider writes...
In "The Mirror," why did Elisa get her shoes back and none of the other humans-turned-gargoyles get theirs back when the were changed back into humans? And where *did* Elisa'a Jacket go?
Greg responds...
I don't recall everyone else using/losing shoes. I'd have to watch it again. Maybe the other people you saw all transformed before they had their shoes on in the first place? Never put them on, so never got them back.
As for Elisa's jacket... I don't know. I've never known the answer to that one. Magic and Puck's personal aesthetic, perhaps.
Jen writes...
Greg
i was wondering if golitah & elisa ever become a couple
Greg responds...
Have you seen "Hunter's Moon, Part III"?
or said another way...
Define "couple".
Mooncat writes...
Hello Greg,
The subject came up in the Adult comment room on the Gargoyles Fan Website, on wether Goliath and Elisa would ever be able to become mates. Physically.
So the main question is, can they become mates, in a physical sense, without physically harming Elisa?
How well endowed is Goliath (beneath the loin cloth)?
How well endowed are Brooklyn, Broadway, and Lex? Yes, inquiring minds want to know *^_^*. If not exact sizes, some general indication would be appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to consider the question.
Mooncat >^,,^<
and the peeps in
the Adult Gargoyles Comment Room
Greg responds...
I think of Goliath (and all the gargoyles) as being proportional. So that would make him fairly well-endowed by human standards. I have no doubt that Elisa and Goliath could become intimate, but I do have some doubts as to whether they could engage in intercourse without harming Elisa physically. But there are of course, many ways to become intimate short of intercourse.
Kim writes...
Settle a bet, will goliath and elisa ever hook up?
Greg responds...
Define "hook up".
Gipdac writes...
1a) Did Goliath know Jon Canmore and John Castaway were the same person? b) Did Elisa?
Greg responds...
1a. Not at the time of "The Journey".
1b. Ditto.
FanForLife writes...
I was wondering, when exactly did Goliath actually admit to himself consciously that he was in love with Elisa? Actually said to himself, "I love her?" Was it at a specific moment in the series, and if so what scene/episode? Thanks!
Greg responds...
That's a darn good question. I'm sure he hadn't figured it out by "Sentinel". It might, in fact, have been in "Hunter's Moon, Part III" after she returned from the dead. Maybe right after the Praying Gargoyle was smashed. Or maybe after he returned to the castle. It wouldn't surprise me if it was as late as that.
I'd be eager to hear what all of you think on this question.
In any case, he certainly knew by "The Journey".
wizebeaz writes...
Hey Greg I just want to say you did a great job on the Gargoyles. Ok now for a couple of questions.
You know on 'hunter's moon 2' after Jason kissed Elisa, then Elisa went to the clock tower. Well, was she going to go visit the gargoyles, namely Goliath? And if she was would she tell him who she felt about him if she was?
Greg responds...
I do think she would have come to see them, to talk about the crisis in general. I don't know that they would have discussed the kiss. I don't know what she would have revealed about her own feelings. But I tend to think -- very little. It's just not her -- guarded, pretend to be invulnerable -- way.
Anyhow, it's moot.
matt writes...
in 2001 (or probably 2002 when you answer this :) ) is Elisa still a NY Cop? has she been promoted or still doing her detective work?
Greg responds...
How about in 2003?
Yes, I'd imagine she's still a cop. Hopefully, by now she's been promoted a grade or two. But I don't have a context to say how high.
Aaron writes...
I forget who asked this: "10. Does Dracon dream about Elisa and him being together?"
Greg replies: "10. Probably." By dream, would that be in the context of fantasizing about Elisa, (Poor Tony's never met Demona, has he?) or does Tony genuinely have some really strange dreams?
http://www.inktank.com
Greg responds...
Maybe both.
A. Goodman writes...
Before I get to the questions, I'd just like to say how much I enjoyed the show and how amazed I am to find that I'm not alone in wishing to see a return to that universe. Having said this...on with the questions!
First, is it possible to obtain recordings of some of the episodes, particularly "The Mirror"? On the subject of "The Mirror" I must say that I was somewhat disapointed that subplot (the sparks of romance) between Goliath and Elisa never reached the level of developement I was expecting (or did it?). I honestly thought Elisa made a very good gargoyle, and I always wondered if that might also have been addressed in some way. Thank you once again for everything!
Greg responds...
1. The first season was released on video, though you'd probably have to haunt e-bay to find copies of those tapes. Otherwise, the only thing I can recommend at this point is to record the eps off Toon Disney.
2. Well, I think the subplot was advanced in episodes like "Sentinel" and "Hunter's Moon", among others. As for Elisa being a gargoyle, that was always temporary in my mind.
Vashkoda writes...
The grant of immunity to Oberon's magic is a great gift to Goliath and his clan (even if it *is* subject to Oberon's interpretation).
1) You've explained that Elisa still fell prey to Oberon's sleep spell because he didn't consider her part of the clan. a) Why is this? Did Oberon not recognize how close Goliath and Elisa were back on Avalon? Did he automatically dismiss the idea that a human could be adopted into a gargoyle "clan"? b) Just a comment here, but I think it would have been a nice touch if Elisa *had* been granted immunity from the sleep spell, kind of as a way to symbolize her relationship to the clan. c) At some future point, do you see Oberon extending this immunity to Elisa as well?
2a) Do you have any specific ideas for future moments when the clan will once again get to take advantage of their immunity from Oberon's magic? b) When you introduced Oberon's gift to Goliath in "Ill Met by Moonlight", were you already thinking ahead to "The Gathering", realizing that that the clan would need this immunity? Or was it simply something you figured you might make use of eventually in a future story?
Greg responds...
1a. Largely, I don't think he's that observant. Gargoyle clans. He's thinking gargoyles. No doubt, Elisa was regarded as an ally, but I don't think it occured to him to actually consider her to be part of the clan.
b. Well, it's nice and symbolic, but I just think the spell has to come from Oberon's PoV, and it seems out of character to me for him to include her. This isn't something I missed. This is something I considered and made a conscious decision about.
c. I doubt it.
2a. Not specifically at this moment.
b. Yes and yes.
FanForLife writes...
Hi Greg. Just wondering--was the part in the Journey where Goliath went to see Elisa the first time the two talked or saw each other since the kiss at the end of Hunter's Moon 3? If not, when did they first see or talk to each other after the kiss? Thanks!
Greg responds...
Elisa and Goliath kiss on the morning of October 27, 1996.
Goliath goes to see Elisa just after Midnight on October 29, 1996.
I find it hard to believe that they didn't see each other at all on the 27th or 28th. But it's very possible that they had no time alone to discuss what had happened.
Corrie "Cormak" McDermott writes...
Hi Greg,
I have some questions about Goliath and Elisa.
1. You've said that Goliath started falling in love with Elisa pretty early on. And that he fell in love with her before he even understood how attractive she was physically. By Elisa's reactions in various episodes it seemed that she knew he was falling for her and she tried to deny the truth for a while. Not only his feelings but hers as well. Obviously by what happened in Hunter's Moon I , II and III she realized that she was in love with him and she let him know. Did she fall in love him because of the way he has protected her and his personality?
1a. Did she find him attractive physically?
1b. or both?
2. I've read your comments that Elisa and Goliath would realize that their relationship before it really started was impossible and they would date members of their own species, possibly at a Halloween party. Would this party have been the first time they dated since the breakup?
2a. Also would it be at this party that they would both realize that they still loved each other?
2b. or would that have been later on down the road?
3. Does Elisa know that Goliath was watching her and Jason in her apartment? (Hunter's Moon Part II)
3a. If not, would Goliath ever tell her?
Greg responds...
1. Well, I think Elisa probably thinks he's good looking too, but yes, it's who he is inside that really attracts her. In my opinion, anyway.
1a. I think so.
1b. Both, yeah. I gotta start reading ahead.
2. I think so. But it's not a party so much as a night out. At least in my mind.
2a. Yes.
2b. I don't think they ever stopped loving each other, but they tried to let logic and reason dictate their feelings. By the end of this Halloween adventure, they'd realize that it was pointless to supress their feelings. Certainly unfair to their dates.
3. Not sure. Don't think so.
3a. It seems unnecessary now.
Chapter XLII: "Sanctuary"
Time to ramble...
This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.
But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.
And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?
During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:
Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.
ROMANCE
Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."
This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.
Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?
After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.
THE GARGOYLE WAY
Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.
He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.
Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?
And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?
THE CATHEDRAL
There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.
But there's some nice stuff going on...
Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?
Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?
Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?
I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."
Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."
Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.
At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.
TOURISTS
Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)
I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"
THE WEDDING NIGHT
We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.
Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"
And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.
The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?
I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.
Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.
Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.
Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?
And he has some great lines too:
"You and what clan?"
"Teamwork is so overrated."
"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)
To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.
Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.
BATTLE
There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.
I love Goliath's two-handed punch.
I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."
But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.
When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:
<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>
Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!
This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.
But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.
Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.
KEITH meet MR. DAVID
I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.
1st Epilogue:
Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."
That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.
And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.
2nd Epilogue:
One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.
This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.
And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."
(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Stacey writes...
Dear Mr Weisman.
Hey there. Hope you had a nice holiday.
I was wondering when it was that you actualy thought up the idea for the garg universe? I mean, did it just pop in your head on day or had it been there for a while?
Also, was there any 'plan' to the story. Was there always going to be a Goliath/Elisa thing? Were the Rookery eggs always going to be on Avelon? Was there some kind of planning towards it?
I know this is probably incredibly sappy but its been killing me ever since I saw that episode...what WAS Goliath going to say to Elisa at the end of 'The Mirror'? Ok, for a start, it wouldn't have been much because he knew that the sun would be up soon. And all the clan were around. But what would he have actualy told her - sworn absolute undying love? Admited that he liked her a bit? I know its a stupid question, but its a lovley scene. Also, what were they like with each other the next night? I guess they both knew what he meant (even if I don't).
Okay, thats all for now. Thank you very much.
Greg responds...
Stacey,
It's been so long since you posted these questions (last October) I'm going to assume that you've already got the answers since all of them are available in the archives.
But just in case, and briefly.
I've been fascinated with Gargoyles since high school at least, but the series was developed by my team at Disney between 1991 and 1994.
Yes, we had a plan. G&E was planned. The eggs showing up on Avalon (or some equivalent) was planned..
I'm not sure that Goliath had the exact words on the tip of his tongue. (This isn't like Titania whispering in Fox's ear.) I think he would have tried to stammer something out about his growing feelings for her. But it would have stopped far short of "declaring his undying love".
Andrea "Elisa Maza" Ivanovs writes...
Hi Greg!
I hope you had a nice birthday! :)
I have a profane question, to which you might not even have an answer, but I figured I'd try. I'm hosting ELISA MAZA'S WEBSITE, all about her, have been for a pretty long time now. I've been considering getting "elisamaza.com" as a domain, but even though there's no profit involved, I'm not quite sure if I'd get into deep trouble with that.
"Gargoyles" is not a copyrighted name, so sites titled "Gargoyles.com" don't have problems - but "Elisa Maza" is a copyright by Disney...you worked with those guys, so maybe you can tell me your thoughts on that. I don't want Disney's hitmen on my doorstep or something.
Thanks for your time, and seize the night!
Greg responds...
Hey Andrea,
By now, you must be married or darn close to it. Say hi to Tony for me. Tell him the CD was great. (Although the song he credited to Alanis Morissette wasn't by her.)
Anyway, I can't answer your question. I'm not a lawyer. I don't work for Disney and I don't know what the rules are for this thing. Is it expensive? I mean would it kill you if you did it and at some point down the line, Disney asked you to stop? They wouldn't punish you -- at least not at first -- they'd just send a cease and desist.
I don't know what the likelihood of even that is, but I wouldn't want to advise you to do something that could cause you problems down the road. Good luck.
Chapter XXXVIII: "Heritage"
Time to ramble...
This chapter was written by Adam Gilad. Story Edited by Gary Sperling, and directed by Frank Paur.
FAME
As I watch each episode with my family, I've got my journal open in front of me to take notes for these rambles. During the opening credits, my five-year-old son Benny said: "I like Gargoyles." I was very pleased, of course. Then he said, "Can you write down that?" So I did. And so I have.
SHE'S GOTTA HAVE IT
Back on the skiff, and Elisa still hasn't QUITE gotten the idea. She still anticipates being back in Manhattan. Like visiting Scotland was an anamoly, but now surely Avalon will send them home. (What did you all think at the time?)
And boy, that girl likes her hot dogs. Make her one with everything, you know?
A.K.A. CECIL
Our Sea Monster attacks. It's a cool design, based on research that we did. (It happens to look a lot like a pre-historic whale I saw last night on a Discovery Channel special: "Walking with Pre-Historic Beasts".)
I wish we could have found a less generic name for the creature than "Sea Monster". Thunderbird is a cool name -- particularly since I have fond memories of the L.A. T-Birds from Roller Derby telecasts of my youth -- but our research never turned up another name for the Sea Monster.
Keep in mind that though we did research, we also had time constraints. We couldn't keep researching a topic indefinitely. Eventually, we'd have to use what we had and run with it in order for the story and script to be delivered on time.
But I know Gary and Adam did quite a bit of backgrounding for this story. The Sea Monster, Thunderbird, Raven and Grandmother all came from Haida stories -- though we conflated quite a bit, I think. We did always try to be as true as possible to the history and legends we were riffing on.
HEY, WEREN'T THERE FOUR OF YOU?
As the battle with the Sea Monster came to a close, my seven-year-old daughter Erin said: "What about Elisa? Where's Elisa?"
Five seconds later, Goliath surfaces and says pretty much the same thing, before fearing her drowned by shouting "ELISAAAAA!!" (Shades of things to come -- in Hunter's Moon III.)
TOTEM POLES
Speaking of research, the origin of the whole episode was the fact that Totem Poles caught my eye as being a particularly gargoylesque deal. Then we did some preliminary research and found that they weren't carved in anything that seemed to resemble a gargoyle tradition. They were 'carved to honor animal ancestors'. So rather than stretch (or abuse) the truth, we decided to let the characters (and audience) be lured off course by the poles, just as we had been.
Fake GARGOYLES, right here in North America.
In many ways, I think it could be argued that what takes place in this episode is handled or covered in other episodes to come. We have another episode with a 'sea monster'... a more famous sea monster in a certain loch... coming up rapidly in "Monsters". Also in that ep, one of our cast is lost and feared drowned after an early attack by that monster. And much of Nick/Natsilane's dilemma is also re-covered with a more-important recurring character (Peter Maza) in our other Native American-themed episode: "Cloud Fathers". We even do more with a volcano in "Ill Met by Moonlight". On some level I suppose I regret the duplication of efforts. I don't think we usually did this sort of thing.
But I don't regret the episode. I had plans for Raven. Plans for Queen Florence Island. Plans for Nick/Natsilane. I still think the ep has some cool stuff in it. And I think we NEEDED to cover Totem Poles. It was a natural.
HAR with a V. VAR with a D.
I went to a high school in North Hollywood, CA named "Harvard High School". Named after the University. (Some people have incorrectly stated I went to Harvard for college. But I went to Stanford for Undergrad and U.S.C. to get my Masters.)
I don't remember who's idea it was to have Nick be a graduate of Harvard. Might have been mine. Harvard of course is useful as a symbol.
I like Nick/Natsilane. He's got some nice attitude here and a nice shift. Maybe not the most impressive of our so-called "International Heroes". But very likable.
I give a lot of credit to the voice actor for bringing him to life. Gregg Rainwater was brought in by our Voice Director Jamie Thomason. Gregg was terrific. We used him again in Cloud Fathers, but I've used him many times since Gargoyles. I've even written parts with Gregg in mind. He was Jake Nez in Max Steel. And I cast him as Jake MacDonald in 3x3 Eyes. He always brings incredible humanity to a part, I think. Heroic, but real.
THAT'S NOT A CROW
It's a raven. Our second Trickster makes his first appearance. Of the four (Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote), Raven was the guy we gave the most evil bent to.
I like all the shape-shifting he does. (Though when he flees at the end, I wanted him to flee in his bird form, not his Raven-Goyle form.) I also like how he lies by using pieces of the Truth.
Raven-Goyle: "There is an evil sorceress named Grandmother. She summoned the monster that you fought."
When he said that, did you believe him?
Of course, Grandmother does have magic power and she did, in a way, summon the Sea Monster.
IT COULD BE WORSE. I ONCE LIVED ON 28TH STREET.
While doing our research, we encountered names of Islands off the Canadian coast like Queen Charlotte Island. So I named the fictional island we'd be using "Queen Florence Island."
Growing up in Woodland Hills, California, I lived on Queen Florence Lane, a street off Queen Victoria Road. Victoria and Florence were the daughters of Michael Curtiz, the director of such films as CASABLANCA. Curtiz, at one time, owned all the property in that area, so he named the two streets after his daughters.
OR so I once was told... by a ghost named Humphrey who tried to convince me that he was Humphrey Bogart, though you could tell by looking at him that he wasn't.
WHO EXACTLY IS THE SICK ONE HERE?
Elisa is so strong so much of the time, that it's kinda sexy to see her vulnerable and feverish.
Notice that Grandmother doesn't use Fairy magic to heal Elisa. She uses Haida medicine. Thus the rule of non-interference is bent not broken.
I like when Nick comes back in and the Fever's broken. And he says just don't tell me you cured her with tree bark.
When she says, "...and roots." His expression is priceless.
SEEING RED
I like the lighting in the Volcano scene.
Goliath is so glad to learn that other clans have survived, that he doesn't notice -- in fact defends -- the inconsistencies in Raven's story.
Angela, on the other hand is suspicious. This was done, in part, to further develop her character. She's naive about certain things. Having been raised by humans, she's not inclined to judge them harshly or fear their prejudices. But she's not stupid. Something doesn't smell right and she notices.
For once, Bronx though does not. I chalk this up to the high quantity of magic being tossed around on this dying island. Grandmother is not what she seems. Neither is Raven. Bronx is confused.
Anyway, Goliath speaks to Gargoyles protecting to explain away why "Raven's Clan" can both hate humans and protect them. You get the sense that he understands all too well. Like despite everything, there's a part of him -- a prejudiced part -- that hasn't forgiven the human race for what happened at Wyvern. (Also keep in mind, he was just at Wyvern again, rehashing all those old memories.)
Of course, once Goliath learns that Raven was pulling something, he's furious at the trickster. Playing on his hopes AND his prejudices, Raven has risked G's wrath.
At the end of this scene, the three silent gargs vanish magically.
Erin said: "What happened? What just happened?"
Benny said: "How did they just vanish?"
They know I know the answer. But I resist telling them. It's a touch cruel. What did you guys think?
YOU CAN TAKE THE GIRL OUT OF THE CITY...
Elisa is such a New Yorker. Everything is compared to that. "This sure isn't Central Park."
Anyway, Raven, then a bear, then Bronx and finally Angela and Goliath find Elisa. I love Goliath and Elisa's hug. It's so unselfconscious. They were so worried about each other that they forgot the usual distance that they maintain.
SUSPICIOUS MINDS
So who did you trust? When the gargs disappeared, that had to indicate that something was up with the Raven-goyle.
So when Goliath tells Elisa that Grandmother is a sorceress, particularly given that Grandmother saved Elisa's life, we all tend to think that G's been duped. Then we spot Grandmother turning into Thunderbird. What did you all think then?
Benny noticed "her ears" and suspected her even before she turned into T-Bird.
THAT'S GOTTA HOIT
A cool moment in the battle against T-Bird is when Goliath rakes the creature with his claws.
Then Angela spots the Illusion. And plays it cool with Raven.
I like Goliath's line to Grandmother: "We live. We do not thrive."
Grandmother than establishes that Raven is a Trickster and that they are both "Children of Oberon". Thus we establish that aspect of our series.
She states that they are forbidden from directly interfering in human affairs. Reinforcing what the Weird Sisters said a few episodes before.
Raven joins the party. The jigs up, but he revels in it. He's got a few decent lines too.
I like "It's so messy."
POOR HORATIO, ALWAYS A BRIDESMAID, NEVER A BRIDE
Elisa more-or-less quotes Shakespeare: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Natsilane, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I've always loved that line.
Anyway, Goliath and Angela depart to fight Raven. They arrive first, but given the fact that Nick had to...
1. Have a final change of heart.
2. Change clothes.
3. Get up to the volcano without wings.
...He makes good time, don't you think?
Raven brings the totem beasts to life. This was always a bit weird. We introduce illusion gargs based on the totem beasts. But then when we bring the totem pole to actual life (or semblance) we have new designs for the woody creatures.
Does everyone see Goliath play dead for that bear?
Raven has a nice exit line here: "This place no longer amuses me."
Neither does this Ramble.
Chapter XXXV: "Avalon, Part Two"
Time to Ramble...
"PART TWO"
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.
I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.
Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.
Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.
THE EGGS
Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.
Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.
Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.
BEACH FIGHT
So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.
I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.
I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"
And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"
And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"
"Uh. Yeah."
And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.
It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.
So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.
I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.
Either way, there are some great lines:
Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.
Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.
Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"
Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"
The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)
At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.
ANGELA & GABRIEL
Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.
But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.
And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.
On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?
REUNIONS
Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.
Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.
I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.
K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"
SLEEPING KING
We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.
Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.
And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.
Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?
LOOSE ENDS
This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.
Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)
Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")
And how did the Archmage survive?
Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.
Now let's reveal...
WEIRD SISTERS
Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.
[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]
The sisters have some nice lines...
L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).
ARCHMAGESES
Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!
Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.
Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.
And of course, David. Wow.
Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.
But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.
"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."
"Show some dignity."
"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)
"Not where. When."
"If you don't know, don't guess."
"The book must remain in play."
"Try to keep up."
"We're not doing her any favors."
"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."
"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"
"I hadn't thought that far in advance."
"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"
"Now I understand."
"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"
All great fun.
FLAWS
All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.
The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.
And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.
But Macbeth?
Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.
It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.
But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.
CAPTIONS
These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...
Sure we start with...
"Scotland, 984 A.D."
But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".
It still makes me smile.
POWERING UP
So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....
They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.
So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."
BATTLE FLASHBACK
We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.
Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.
LAYING PIPE
In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.
The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.
Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.
Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...
And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.
And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.
Uh oh.
As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"
To be concluded...
And that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Chapter XXXI: "Protection"
Watched "Protection" last Saturday with my wife and kids. Here's a ramble:
CAST
I'm immediately struck by our large supporting cast. Probably because so few of our regulars (Elisa, Goliath, Broadway only) appear in the episode.
THE CROOKS: Dracon, Glasses and Pal Joey. (All very fun to write for.)
THE COPS: Matt, Maria, Morgan. (All three go undercover and do a bit of play-acting, which is also fun.)
THE CIVILIANS: Art, Lois, Dave, Mr. Jaffe, Travis Marshall. (Each is characterized rather quickly, but memorably, I think. It was particularly cool to play off the Matt/Jaffe relationship previously referred to in "Reawakening".)
As for our regulars, we intentionally reduced the number of 'goyles in this one so that we had the space in our short 22 minutes to focus on other things. Goliath and BW seemed the appropriate two to bring along for various reasons -- established most obviously in "Deadly Force" and "The Silver Falcon".
I liked how Goliath reacted to the perversion of the concept of "Protection" and how the movie-savvy BW shakes his head but takes it in stride.
ELISA
Okay, I figure we didn't fool many of you into thinking that Elisa had actually gone bad. I was pretty sure we wouldn't. At least not the older fans. So I tried to fool you another way in the first few minutes. Glasses tells Dracon about a lady cop, but doesn't mention who. Chavez accuses Elisa, but Elisa pleads her innocence. Did anyone think that Elisa was being framed?
My daughter did. But in a way that I hadn't considered, despite the fact that "Double Jeopardy" was part of the same tier and naturally led to her conclusion.
--Erin: "That's not Elisa, is it?"
--Benny: "Yes, it is."
--Erin: "Yeah, that's not her. She never dresses like that."
--Benny: "It's a wig. How'd she get her hair like that?"
--Erin: "It's a clone."
A clone? Of course! That's the problem with introducing so many concepts. Too many options for the viewer. Did anyone else think clone? Erin maintained this idea right until the end of the episode. She kept saying with increasing frustration: "That's not Elisa. It's not."
SPEAKING OF NEW CLOTHES...
I loved Elisa's new outfit, I only wish the animation -- the character modeling -- in the episode had been better. It's not always very flattering to her. Sometimes it seems to WAY flatten her out. Other times, it makes her huge. (Yes, I'm focused on her breasts. I'm a heterosexual male. What do you want from me?) But it never makes her look real. Still, it's just nice to see her wearing something -- ANYTHING -- different. I wish we had had the resources to give her more clothing options in general.
DIALOGUE
Some nice lines in this one...
Elisa to Goliath: "What are you, a puppy?"
Elisa to Glasses, et al: "You tough guys just gonna stand there all night?"
Goliath to Elisa & Dracon: "Money and power sound very appealing."
Dracon to Elisa: "Keep the jar."
Elisa to Broadway: "Keep the jar."
Dracon to Goliath: "So she's your woman. You have good taste."
Broadway to himself: "Why are bad guys always in such a hurry."
Broadway to Pal Joey: "Sorry, Pal."
Broadway's slightly dated black & white movie gangster lingo.
All of Dracon's on-going Honey, Sugar, etc. references and Elisa's reaction to them. Makes me smile still.
JALAPEÑA
You've all heard this story, right?
Okay, BRIEFLY...
Keith David used the exclamation "Jalapeña" all the time. More or less as a replacement for Halleluia. It was an expression he had gotten from a female jazz singer (whose name escapes me at the moment -- as it usually does for some reason). One day in the control booth, voice director Jamie Thomason turned to me and said, "I bet you can't get that into a script." I said, "I bet I can."
Shortly thereafter, poor innocent writer/story editor Gary Sperling turned in a perfectly normal script. I then added this entire "Jalapeña" subplot. (I had to add all this stuff about room service, jars, etc. to justify the last word in the episode.) I fell in love with the idea. I thought it would give us a curse word, basically. (That's how BW uses it in the ep.) Most everyone else hated it. But directors Frank Paur, Dennis Woodyard and Butch Lukic didn't know how far I planned on taking it. They thought it would be a one episode thing, so they indulged me here. In fact, they suggested the massive "Jalapeña!" echoes at the end of the episode. ("If you're gonna do it, do it!")
Jamie would later goad me by saying things like, "Yeah, but I bet you can't get Hudson to say it." And so one by one, everyone said it. Again, I thought it was fun and useful.
But eventually the art staff literally revolted against it. Frank told me I HAD to stop. So what you'll notice is that starting with this episode we ramp up and begin to use the word a lot. And then it peters out and disappears entirely from the show -- until "The Journey" my farewell episode. I put one "Jalapeña" in that. Disney executive Jay Fukuto asked me why I had done that: "I thought Frank hated it." That's why I did it, to annoy Frank and gratify myself.
Frank and I are all good again now. We look back on our Garg days and realize that we didn't even know how good we had it. But I'd say that in 1996 our relationship had deteriorated a bit. The stress of doing 65 episodes had taken a bit of a toll. We weren't at each others' throats or anything. But we were just a bit on edge. Like I said, ancient history. I'd love to work with Frank again now. But there you have it.
DRACON & GLASSES
Lots of loyalty from Glasses. These second banannas always fascinate me. Of course, Xanatos usually treats Owen with the utmost respect. Dracon isn't quite as good a boss. He has a line of contempt after Glasses tells Dracon that the shopkeep [Matt] wants to meet with the boss. Dracon to Glasses: "And he knows it's not you." You wonder why Glasses puts up with it.
I love how quickly Dracon adjusts to the Gargoyles too. The concept of controlling them is so appealing, it submerges his fears. He quickly starts referring to them as Guests, and then as Partners. He even puts a hand on Goliath's shoulder -- briefly.
BOMBS OVER BROADWAY
This guy seems to deal with bombs a lot. This time he hold it in his teeth, which I thought was cool.
THE GROCERY STORE
Poor Mr. Jaffe. He gets robbed all the time. Then he has to put up with a Werefox attack. And now a particle beam battle.
And what's with those giant bags of flour? Who buys those?
And I wish those hidden cameras had actually been hidden.
I'm not in love with the battle choreography here. Elisa gets the jump on Dracon, which is okay, I guess, as he was hoping he could trust her. But then Dracon gets the jump right back. She should have been better prepared. It's all a touch clumsy.
Goliath's roar is interesting. Usually we use more effect and less Keith. This one is more Keith. A lot more Keith.
G's eyes are glowing as he takes Dracon into the air. But you'll notice they stop glowing just before he drops Dracon. This is a clue that he never really intended to let Dracon die. His anger has already ebbed. And after all, "Gargoyle justice is not human justice." Had this been Gargoyle justice, you get the sense that Dracon would have wound up, dare I say it, "Street Pizza."
Things wrap up. Chavez of course is still largely in the dark. But you'll notice that things were staged so that you could believe that Matt may or may not have been in the dark too. Since this episode was part of the same tier as "Revelations" we didn't 100% know for sure whether or not Matt would know about the Gargoyles by the time this aired. So we tried to play it ambiguously here.
ELISA & GOLIATH
Jalapeñas aside, I like the final scene between E&G. They reaffirm their mission and their love for each other. The first explicitly. The second implicitly.
Also we use the scene to justify why Dracon would buy something that I knew the audience wouldn't. "The corrupt are the first to believe that others can be corrupted." If you never thought for a moment that Elisa was dirty then there's hope for you yet. Either that, or your hopelessly cynical about the rules of television.
But did you still think she was a clone?
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
"PROTECTION" Memo
[In prep for my ramble on "Protection", here's the memo I faxed to Story Editor/Writer Gary Sperling. (Actually, I'm retyping it -- old typos and maybe some new ones included -- because I don't have a computer file. Just the hard copy.) You'll notice that it's more abbreviated than usual. Note the date. I was on vacation at the time. Plus, the outline may have been in better shape. Also note that the episode's original title was "Undercover". But we realized that Elisa wasn't so much going undercover, and that we'd save that concept for what eventually became "Turf". Besides the one word title, "Protection", was hard to resist given our on-going themes.]
WEISMAN 12-29-94
Notes on "Undercover/Protection" Outline...
BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. Restaurant blows up. Keep very brief.
2. Glasses joins Tony in the limo. Glasses has heard that dirty cops are muscling in on their protection racket.
3. News report to Gargoyles. PRoTECTION RACKET. Goliath wants to see Elisa. She hasn't stopped by in days. Where has she been?
4. ChAvez asking Matt same question. As MATT brings in #3 to question him about restaurant bombing. Elisa arrives late. Matt: "Where you been?" Don't crowd me Bluestone. Asks for time alone with #3 Matt gives it. Elisa starts to talk obliquely about her moving in. Chavez interrupts and suspends her while she's under investigation. Maza protests that she's innocent. HAs to turn in badge and gun.
5. Elisa storms outside. Goliath and Broadway follow.
6. #3 calls Dracon.
7. Pool Hall - reveal Elisa.
ACT BREAK??
Glasses and #3 comes in.
8. Pursuit.? or HUSSLES ELISA OUT.
9. Goliath and Broadway intervene. CHASE.
Elisa pulls the rug out from under G. She leaves w/Glasses.
Goliath says she's under a spell. BW says maybe there's another explanation.
10. Glasses and Dracon. Elisa in the next room. Send her in. You guys get to work.
Elisa and Dracon.
11. Grocery Store: MATT (disguised) and owner. Matt and Glasses.
12. Some phony store. Maria, Morgan and #3. After #3 leaves they make reference to one of their plans is sure to nail Dracon.
13. Goliath and Broadway have gone bad at Dracon's Penthouse.
ACT BREAK
Finish out 13.
Intercut:
14. Broadway helps Maria and Morgan against #3 (and Glasses?)
15. Matt and Elisa nab Dracon. He's ready with men and bomb.
Goliath and Elisa work together to diffuse situation.
(Matt and Goliath relationship should be vague.)
Elisa gets her shield and gun back.
16. Reveal clearly what everyone probably knows by now. Elisa was undercover. BW figured it out and tipped off G. Some PROTECTION TAG.
DRACON OUT ON BAIL?????????
Silverbolt writes...
I just had a thought.
Why did Elisa only have a bit part in the reckoning?
I mean I wouldn't have mind seeing her reaction to Delilah. Heck even seeing how Delilah reacted to Elisa.
Greg responds...
The answer is that in any given episode we've only got about 22 minutes of screen time. We can't service an entire cast as large as Gargoyles in every episode. We figured someday we'd get her reaction...
matt's boyfriend writes...
Why didn't Alisa ever get to learn any magic? or any of the gargoyles?
*matt adds that its Elisa, not Alisa*
Greg responds...
No aptitude. Not their style. Not that easy. Etc.
matt writes...
when Puck transforms the human population to gargs why is it that Elisa and the three teen girl gargs in the subway not have brow ridges or horns of any kind? every other gargoyle we've seen except for the English gargs had either horns or brow ridges or both, but these transformed humans had neither. in fact, besides the pointed ears and color difference (which Elisa didn't even have) their bodies from the neck up looked very human, not gargoyle. was it cuz you wanted these characters to be physically attractive to human viewers even as gargs? cuz i think physically Desdemona is more attractive than Demona or Angela and Des has big old horns, so why make these characters as gargs so human looking?
would you have objected to the animators giving Elisa a beak or a frill or any of the other non human features of gargs?
Greg responds...
Yes, I would have objected to Elisa getting a beak, because she wouldn't have looked viserally like Elisa. Other changes that were less significant would not have bothered me.
However, I loved the design they came up with and didn't question it.
As for the girls in the subway. MINOR, minor characters. There wasn't as much time to do all this stuff as you seem to think. We just had to get it done.
Don't read too much into it though. We all think that Desdemona is attractive. Frank in particular likes drawing attractive females. I think Demona and Angela and Elisa are pretty hot too. Among other characters.
Lord Sloth writes...
Had Elisa ever meet Either Xanatos or Owen berfore awakening part 3? If yes, when?
Greg responds...
No.
Lord Sloth writes...
I now have a list of questions to for you about love. ahhh
1. Does Hyena love Jackel?
2. Does Jackel love Hyena?
3. How serius are Hyena's feelings to Cyotie? Is she madley im love with him, or just mildly attracted? Either way, it's kinda gross
4. How does Cyotie feel toward Hyena? He seemed up for they idea of "making sparks fly".
5. Does Fox love Anistasia(before and after the Gathering)?
6. Does Halcyen still carry a torch for Anistasia? And does he now know that she is Titania?
7. Does Titania love fox?
8. Does Puck love Alex?
9. Does Oberon love anyone besides Titania?
10. Does Dracon dream about Elisa and him being together?
11. Was Brooklyn attracted to Demona before "Temptation". He seems to go after the most females.
12. Does Iago feel in love with Desdemona, or is it a strong sexual attraction, or is it just to hurt Othello?
13. Was there a time when Desdemona had feelings toward Iago?
14. Does Vinnie have a special someone (besides himself), or does everyone think he is too wierd?
15. Has Thailog ever felt love, even in the slightest way?
16. Was Malcolm and Elaina's wedding more out of love, or convenience?
17. Do Banquo and Florence have a thing for each other?
18. Does Cagney have a special kitty friend, or just Elisa?
19. Has the Magus been yerning for Kathern all of his life, and never told her how he felt? If yes., thats pretty sad.
20. And, somewhere deep deep down, both Goliath and Demona both yern to again be one, now and forever. Right? I better be. And this would have been shown in latter episodes besides dark ages right?
I'm sure you can see from my questions that I am QUITE the softy. And I love how Gargoyles uses this topic so often. Great job!!!
Greg responds...
Twenty Questions! YAY! :P
1. Sure, to the extent she knows how.
2. Ditto.
3. Something between madly in love and mildly attracted.
4. He's indifferent in the incarnations you've seen.
5. Yes.
6. Yes and Yes.
7. Of course.
8. Sure.
9. Yes. His children and his Children and the island of his birth and all the funny little mortals. He's a benificent one, that Oberon.
10. Probably.
11. I think Brooklyn respected Goliath too much to think that way, to allow himself to think that way.
12. The first two. The third is just a side benefit.
13. No.
14. He is currently available? You interested?
15. He's not admitting to it, unless he's lying.
16. Politics. And a hope of love.
17. They're exes.
18. That avenue has not yet been explored.
19. Not all his life. After all, he's ten years older than she is. But yes, it is sad.
20. I think somewhere deep, deep down Goliath wants to be with Elisa. And somewhere deep deep down, Demona wants to be with someone who is right for her.
Ambrosia writes...
Hi, Greg!
*Greatly* enjoyed the radio play. Thank you so much!
So...
Did the cut scene of Hunter's Moon III between Elisa and Jason in the decimated clock tower actually happen in the gargoyles universe, just off camera?
Greg responds...
Uh... I'd like to think so, yes.
kmd writes...
Hi Greg,
First I must say I adore Gargoyles.
I hope these questions don't offend you.
1. Do gargoyles have sex like humans do?
2. If so, do they experience pleasure?
3. Could a human and a gargoyle have sex? (i.e., Goliath and Elisa)
Greg responds...
1. Largely but not exclusively.
2. Yeah, duh.
3. They can certainly give pleasure to each other. But I'm not going into detail in this forum.
Entity writes...
Hello,
I've recently allowed myself to be engulfed in astrology, and so I'm wondering:
1) What is Xanatos' birthday?
2) What is Elisa's birthday?
3) What is Goliath's "hatch"-day?
4) What is YOUR birthday?
Thanks :)
Greg responds...
4. September 28, 1963. Libra.
As for the others, I have years, not specific dates. At least at this time.
William Cain writes...
In the episode "Temptation", Goliath is placed under the a spell that makes him a slave to whom
Ever holds the Grimorum. OK. (A few point then my question and hopefully an answer.)
Point 1.The confines of the spell were that he would obey whoever held the book.
Point 2. In order to free Goliath from the zombie like state Elisa told him to act as is he was not placed under the magic spell.
Point 3. Demona took the actual counter spell.
I just don't feel that her having him act normal would cancel the effects of the magic as for him running around like a zombie yes but not the magic control its self but… I will leave that to you.
My question is if Demona was to take the book again could she take control over Goliath once more or are the effects of the spell no more?
Thank you for your Time
William Cain
Greg responds...
Here are my points:
1. Whoever held the spell. Not the book. At the end, Elisa was holding the spell.
2. Demona did not have the counterspell. She took other spells, like the one to summon Puck.
3. After Elisa issued her command, I'm betting they destroyed the spell. But who knows? (Well, I do. But I'm not telling.)
Cynthia writes...
1) As of "The Journey", was Brooklyn a virgin?
2) As of "The Journey", was Elisa a virgin?
Greg responds...
1. Yes. Technically.
2. No. Not in my mind, anyway. Elisa wasn't a virgin as of "Awakening, Part One".
Lord Sloth writes...
What did Elisa do with her day when the Gargs went to sleep in one of the countries they viseted? Shadows of the past for instance?
What did Elisa tell the Police when she got back from the World tour, to explane her absence?
How does Elisa explane how she keeps loosing her guns? Does she jut tell the police that she melted it down to make a bell? Does she get in much trouble for it?
Greg responds...
She often slept too. Sometimes maintained a vigil. Sometimes explored a bit, as she did in Paris.
Personal leave. She'd have been in bigger trouble had Chavez not been in immediate need for an undercover operative to enter Brod's organization. Elisa's absense from New York during the period of Brod's arrival and establishment made her the perfect candidate. The good results from that operation tended to brush Elisa's shortcomings under the rug -- for now.
Elisa's usually on the verge of being in trouble. Fortunately, she had a strong arrest and conviction record even before meeting the gargs. They've improved her record a bit too. Plus her boss genuinely likes her. Even if she doesn't always show it. (And Maria also has a lot of respect for Peter Maza. He used to be her boss, long time back.)
Aspen Taylor writes...
This may seem silly, but I was watching the episode Deadly Force on the Avalon web page and something stuck me. The doctor said that the bullet hit high in the chest, but the paramedics applied pressure to her stomach. Later when the dotor was discussing Elisa's condition to her parents, he described in incredibly detailed list of the bullet's path through her chest, from her heart to lungs and collarbone. I'm not a doctor by any means, but in order to make that kind of list as well as try and find the bullet-even if it ultamatly ended up in the base of her spine- would he not have had to crack her chest open for that kind of exploratory surgery? *Shutters at the the though of rib spreaders* Anyway I was just curious. Thanks!
Greg responds...
I'm not a doctor either. We tried to be both devastating and accurate. But I think yours would have to be a question for Michael Reaves who wrote the episode.
Steven L. writes...
Gargoyles mate for life. Does that mean that once two gargoyles show interest in each other, and become intimate, that they've mated, and are officially forevermore monogamous?
If so, what happens if, over the years, the two gargoyles come to drift apart, or realize they have nothing in common? Do they stay together simply because of tradition? I take it there's no gargoyle equivalent of divorce. (Or at least there wasn't until Goliath and Demona kinda set precident).
And in that vein; should a gargoyle have an affair, then what happens if that affair is discovered? Does the unfaithful gargoyle and the one he/she had the affair with get banished from the clan?
Hope this hasn't been asked before.
Greg responds...
Gargoyles mate in both sexual and ritualistic fashion. After that they GENERALLY (and that's the key word) remain monogamous.
They imprint upon each other biologically, and there are strong ties of custom to discourage a split. Affairs, I believe, are quite rare.
But as you noted, sometimes things don't work according to plan. Iago has clearly imprinted on Desdemona, though she is imprinted on Othello and he has imprinted on her.
Goliath and Demona imprinted upon each other, but maybe as a result of a thousand years, that imprinting didn't last. Goliath has clearly imprinted anew on Elisa. (BTW, I'm not sure I'm using the word imprinting correctly. I know it's generally used for babies to imprint on their mothers. But it's the closest thing I can think of.)
So there are issues of both biology and custom that discourage anything like divorce or cheating. But that doesn't mean it NEVER happens.
Lord Sloth writes...
In the Gathering, part 1, how did Goliath feel, upon returning, when Elisa called Broodway "Big Guy"? Why did Elisa use Goliath's nick name on Broodway? I'm not to conserned, just curious.
Greg responds...
"Big Guy" is Goliath's nick name?
Stacey writes...
Hello Mr Weisman!
First of all, congeratulations on such a great show, it's the best cartoon I've ever seen, I've loved it since I was a kid!
Just a quick question. I asume that Demona eventualy finds out about Goliath and Elisa's relationship. How does she feel? I always thought that she retained feelings for him - despite her best efforts - and there's the fact that she probably hates Elisa more than anyone else alive.
When you outlined the space spawn/Samson/2198 or something storyline, there was no mention of Goliath and Elisa ever having children, grandchildren etc. I know that biologicaly speaking, there was very little chance that it would ever happen (unfortunantly), but I always thought that they would find someway of adopting. You don't have to say if you don't want to, but Goliath and Elisa without kids is heartbreaking. They would make such wonderful parents! I know that they would help raise the clans children, but its not quite the same is it? I mean Goliath has taken up the role as sole parent to angela, and Elisa is human anyway. Please give me hope!
Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to rant on for so long. I need my gargoyles fix.
Good luck for the future.
XXX
Greg responds...
Thanks, Stacey.
You'll worry less if you stop thinking like a human. There will be plenty of children. And Goliath and Elisa will be parents to them. I've discussed them having their own children before. Hinted at it. Check the archives if you want.
As for Demona, I don't think this will come as news to her. And she already doesn't like it.
matt writes...
before "Awakening" had Elisa had any or many boyfriends or serious relationships? if so, would any of these guys make an appearence later in the series or spin-offs?
Greg responds...
Potentially. I'm sure Elisa had a few serious relationships. But not like MARRIAGE serious. She's not that easy to reach.
Sloth writes...
The New Olipians said Elisa was the first human to visit in 2000 years, does that mean another human has visited, or is that when the built the city?
Greg responds...
Others have been there. Just not recently. Also the island wasn't quite as isolated at first.
John writes...
Hi Greg,
Today no talk, just the question:
In "Sanctuary", Macbeth got a picture of Elisa hanging in his livingroom. Was that a joke by the writers, or have you too not noticed it untill yet?
By the way: do you know, that John Rhys-Davies will play Gimli in the Lord of the Rings movie?
OK, that's all
CU, John
Greg responds...
I knew John was in the movie, not what he was playing.
I have noticed that there is a picture that looks like Elisa. At present I have no explanation for it. It certainly wasn't in the script.
Pyro X writes...
Greg;
I was reading your MEMO about "The Silver Falcon." fro the archives...
I got to thinking... This type of epidode wouldn't have worked with Brooklyn or even Lexington... these type of characters almost need to have other gargoyles around. You couldn't ahve a hole epidose of only Brooklyn or only Lexington. Lexington and brooklyn don't have human connections like Broadway. He shot Elisa. This brought them a bit closer than the others.
Do you agree or dissagree?
Greg responds...
I agree that Broadway shooting Elisa brought the two of them closer together. (Though they were already close.)
But otherwise, I disagree. Either Brooklyn or Lex could carry an episode on their own. I think we more or less proved that with Temptation and Thrill of the Hunt.
I know other characters were involved. But Lex and Brooklyn each carried those shows.
Anastasia writes...
Hello Greg!
I loved the show, especialy the Goliath/Elisa story. But I have a question, I heard that gargoyles age at half the rate that humans do. Would that affect Goliath and Elisa's relationship as the years whent on?
(Oh yeah, and just a daft one...do gargoyles shave? Hudson is the only one with facial hair of any description, I just wondered...)
OK. That you very much. How are you today?
Greg responds...
Some gargs shave, some don't.
And yes, the difference in their age rate would of course effect their relationship. But I'm not saying how.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
Last night I was watching 'Hunter's Moon, Part II' on Toon Disney. Since it's definately one of my favorite episodes, I tried to spot all the stuff I'd missed when on previous viewings. I was delighted by what I found!
It was in the scene right after when Elisa gives Angela CPR. In a short time afterwards dawn comes. What I noticed was that just before they turn to stone, Broadway moves beside where Angela is lying and takes her hand. It was happening in the background and no attention was called to it, but I thought that was incredibly sweet! I really loved it. Was that another hint that Broadway and Angela would end up together? If it was, it was a VERY nice way to do so. :-)
Another question about Hunter's Moon, Part II: When Goliath is just outside Elisa's window, seeing all that happens within (My original reaction to Elisa and Jason was *GASP!* "OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO, OHMYGOD, NO OHMYGOD, NO!" So on and so forth), could he hear what was being said? I couldn't tell.
And I'd like to take a brief moment to say thanks for creating a show with characters that can endear themselves with little background actions and that make me care SO MUCH that its hero gets the girl!
Greg responds...
1. Yes. As soon as Gary Sperling and I decided (while working on Turf) that Broadway and Angela would wind up together, we tried to show their relationship building -- in subtle ways.
2. Yes, he could hear. But in Soap Opera fashion, he left before he heard it all. To our credit, even the stuff he missed wasn't exactly equivocal.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
Demoness writes...
Isn't Elisa a member of Goliath's clan? If so, why was she affected by Oberon's magic in "The Gathering" when he decreed that Goliath's clan was immune.
Greg responds...
Oberon clearly doesn't realize that she's a member.
Anastasia writes...
Hello Greg!
I fist saw the show back in 1994 when I was nine years old and I've been a fan ever since.
I love the Goliath/Elisa story line - its the reason why I fell in love with the show. Just a few questions that have been bugging me...
1) I know that this is just a hypothetical (hope I spelt that correctly) question - please indulge me - but if Elisa had been alive in 994, who would Goliath have chosen to be mates with, Elisa or Demona?
2) I'm not trying to be crude, honest I'm not, but can Goliath and Elisa have sex? And would they plan to try it?
Ok, thank you in advance.
Greg responds...
1. Probably Demona. It took extreme circumstances for Goliath to look at Elisa in that way. Doesn't mean his heart didn't go out to her sooner. But his head needed some catch up time.
Having said that, I'm not too fond of hypotheticals.
2. There are many ways for two adults to express their love and give each other pleasure. Eventually... eventually... they would experiment.
Anonymous writes...
In "Macbeth" when Elisa, Broadway and Lexington tried to get the Grimorum Akrimnorum (I think I spelled that wrong)
and Owen tries to stop them Elisa just gos ahead and takes Xanatose's property along with Broadway and Lex so if she's a police officer then doesn't she have to follow the law like everyone else?
Thanks Alot
Greg responds...
Arcanorum. And it's highly debatable who's property it was -- at least in Elisa's mind.
Sapphire writes...
Sorry Matt for picking on you I was just joking any question time.....
Greg you said earlier that Talon would get upset when his sister takes Goliath to be her mate. I was wondering why would he get upset over his sister's choice about the person she wants to spend the rest of her life with?
Greg responds...
Think about it and get back to me.
Buck writes...
At the end of "Temptation", Elisa tells (commands?) Goliath (under the spell) to always act as if he was not under a spell. I'm assuming this means for all spells and not just that particular one he was under. If this assumption is correct, how would Goliath be affected by Puck's spells in "The Mirror"? I want to say there are other times he's been under a spell, but I haven't seen too many episodes on Toon Disney yet (I just got the station) and I'm cursed with a poor memory.
Greg responds...
You're assumption is incorrect.
She didn't (couldn't) give him full magical immunity. She didn't have that kind of control. She simply ordered the slave to act FOREVER as if he wasn't one.
matt writes...
obviously Elisa told Matt about many of the World Tour adventures (i.e. Hunters Moon- Easter Island Statues) did she tell him about the New Olympians? did she tell any other humans? did Goliath and co. tell the trio and Hudson about the New Olympians?
Greg responds...
My guess is that Elisa told Matt some of their adventures, but not everyone. She probably left out the New Olympians as (a) not her secret to reveal and (b) not the most fun adventure for her.
But I'm guessing that either Goliath or Angela eventually told Hudson and the Trio EVERYTHING.
Lady Dominique Macbeth writes...
What is the number on Elisa's NYPD badge?
Greg responds...
Sorry, I don't have that info with me. Ask me again later.
Lady Dominique Macbeth writes...
Greg,
At the end of Metemorphosis, after Elisa learns her brother has been mutated, she sits in a corner of the clocktower crying. I completely understood this--a perfectly natural reaction-- but what I didnt understand is why no one tried to comfort her. I mean, she is close to the whole clan and ou said by this time Goliath already had definate feelings for her, so why didnt someone try to help her through something that could quite possibly be the hardest time of her life?
Thanks so much!!!!
Greg responds...
You only saw a fragment of time.
Jason Barnett writes...
Did Elisa ever have to deal with a case involving Tony Dracon before Deadly Force? He seemed very familiar with her.
Greg responds...
Yes. He was something of a nemesis to her. And vice versa.
LittleLotusFlower writes...
Hey, I'm new to the whole question thing, but I've been a fan for years. I've been wanting to ask a question that's bothered me and my brother for years. Can you possibly tell me the make and model od Elisa's car? Is it a real car in existance, or just a creation from the fine people at Disny?
Greg responds...
There's some disagreement about this. I was always under the impression that it was a Ford Fairlane. Or largely a Ford Fairlane. Roy Sato tells me it isn't exactly that. I forget what he said it was. A combo of a few models and makes, I think. I assume the Fairlane's in there, but I'm no longer even sure of that.
Roy?
matt writes...
in "Sanctuary" when Macbeth and Demona are fighting, Demona gets a hold of a gun and so does Elisa, Macbeth pulls back his jacket to let Demona shoot him and in the last second starts saying "NO!". is this because he realizes he doesn't want Demona to kill him and or is it because he sees that Elisa is about to shoot Demona and thus he won't die?
Greg responds...
He sees Elisa and realizes that her intervention will spoil his suicide attempt.
Sapphire writes...
Elisa Maza for a human is extremely beautiful and attractive. Do you think that the New Olympians when they first saw her saw her as a very beautiful organism since some of the New Olympians looked extremly ugly.
Greg responds...
Eye of the beholder, my friend.
Cassandra writes...
Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?
Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.
Greg responds...
Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.
And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.
recorded on 02-15-01
Okay, to clarify what I was talking about I think I was remembering the end of "Deadly Force". Goliath brushes Elisa's hair back when he tells her to sleep.
I didn't mean "getting used to it" to equal "become blaise about it". More like kissing is a feels-great-still-weird-but-I-like-it situation and Goliath would feel more comfortable with gargoyle display's of affection.
I know they're both mature adults and both of them realize there is going to be a lot of compromising and explaining in their relationship. It's just a quirky idea that popped in my head.
Greg responds...
And an interesting one. But yes, that Deadly Force moment was to Goliath, a kiss equivalent. Not necessarily a romantic kiss. But a caring one.
Cleo writes...
Do you think Gargoyles will ever come back on the air?and if so will there be more episodes on the Goliath-Elisa relationship? P.S.Gargoyles ROCK!
Greg responds...
Yes, I hope so, and yes, I hope so.
Chapter XXVIII: "Revelations"
Time to Ramble...
Fueled by (what I perceived in my own mind to be) the success of "City of Stone", I began to get more daring in my story structure. In Revelations, Cary and I utilized the time-honored tradition of "in medias res", where a story starts in the middle and catches the viewer up along the way. (Thanks, Homer.)
We also used voice over narration for the first time. It's interesting because Matt just seemed like a perfect character to do that kind of Philip Marlowe naration. But at the same time, it was daring, because of course, Matt is not a regular. The audience didn't know him that well. I think it showed the strength of our supporting cast that Matt could carry a show like this. Of course, having the massively talented Tom Wilson playing Matt helped. I knew he could handle it. And he did. Tom is terrific and VERY funny in the booth. I hope someday he gets his own tv show. (I also loved him as Coach Fredericks on Freaks & Geeks.)
The basic springboard for this episode came from four sources.
1. The notion that eventually Matt would have to find out about the Gargoyles. We didn't want to just throw it away or constantly come up with new excuses why he had "just missed them" or whatever.
2. Matt's pursuit of the Illuminati. What began as a Michael Reaves throwaway line in "The Edge" had evolved into its own subplot. Cary's "Silver Falcon" had taken us to the next level of hearsay. It was time to finally bring the Society into the series.
3. Disney's desire to do a cross-over event with their new "TOWER OF TERROR" ride down in Orlando. Unfortunately, they had wanted this much earlier -- in 1994. We had piggy-backed our World Premiere Screening of Gargoyles down in Florida in September of 1994 with the press event for the Tower's Grand Opening. (That's how Keith David, Marina Sirtis, Salli Richardson, Gary Krisel and I wound up riding the Tower of Terror together on the night before it opened to the general public.) But this was the soonest we could fit the notion into our continuity. You'll see in the memo that I just posted previous to this ramble, that when we were at the outline stage, I was still trying to more firmly tie the two properties together. Partway through the script process, someone at Disney changed their mind. They didn't want the tie-in anymore. I shrugged, I think. And the HOLLYWOOD TOWER became the HOTEL CABAL.
4. An episode of the British TV series, THE AVENGERS, called something like "The House That Jack Built". This was a classic that we ripped off shamelessly. (Wait, wait, I mean we paid it homage shamelessly.) It was about this nutty house designed, I believe, to trap spies inside and drive them bonkers and break them. Sound familiar? John Steed and Emma Peel redone as Goliath and Matt. Didn't you notice the resemblance?
(Gee, so far I've credited Raymond Chandler, Homer and THE AVENGERS as influences. What a fun episode.)
We reintroduced Hacker, mostly so that we could bookend him at the end as Matt's new Illuminati contact. This was something that Cary and I planned as far back as Silver Falcon. We always had to keep Hacker's agenda straight. Make sure any info he gave Matt was a wild goose chase, at least as far as Hacker knew.
In this episode, and only in this episode, Maria Chavez is played by the talented Elisa Gabrielli (also known as Obsidiana). Rachel Ticotin, our usual Chavez, was just unavailable. So Elisa filled in. She has a lighter sound. But I think it works. Did anyone notice? Both Elisa and Rachel are great. I used Elisa as the Doll Demon in 3x3 Eyes (now available on VHS and DVD).
My 3 year old son Ben, who at this point is used to me writing down what he and his older sister says during these viewings told me to write down the following: "When it's night, Demona's a gargoyle. When it's day, she's a human. He likes it when Demona's a human." This had absolutely nothing to do with this episode, but hey, who cares?
I really loved what Ed Asner did with the throwaway character of Jack Dane. "Tell him he's a bum." Dane was so much fun, I brought him back for TURF later.
CONTINUITY
Matt climbs into the clock tower and finds the TV he helped Elisa with on the day they met. That was fun. This whole episode ties back to Matt's Illuminati musings in "The Edge". It was nice to find another connection. Also, Elisa's been lying to him as long as they've known each other. Nice to remind the audience of that as well.
I like the "family of gorillas" line.
"The Dental Plan" line is vintage Cary Bates.
Elisa: "Matt, you haven't said three words all night..."
Matt: "Let me drive." HEY! THREE WORDS! :) This is fun because, I always thought of Elisa as someone who was such a control freak, she never let her partner drive her car. A big part of this episode, though it could easily sneak past you what with everything else going on, is revealing more facets of Elisa's personality. We learn much more about her and she grows here too.
It's fun to establish Xanatos as "a lower eschelon member". Immediately makes the Illuminati impressive, if Xanatos barely registers on their scale. Also sets up eventual conflicts with him.
First act cliffhanger: Here the threat is Matt. Again, how well did you all think you knew Matt? Here we're inside his point of view -- his narration. But we still try to play him edgy enough that we don't know if he'll kill them both. It helps that we opened with the shocker that he betrayed Goliath to Mace. How many people bought that? Thought Matt was the Judas that Mace said he was?
Anyway, I really like this scene. Elisa yelling at Matt. Matt getting out of the car and yelling at... no one. And Elisa's quiet revelation that Matt isn't crazy... "They don't follow me everywhere." Again, this line was as important for Elisa as for Matt. Sure she can count on the Gargoyles for help. But I never wanted it to seem like Lois and Superman. Like he was always around or would here her with super-senses everytime she screamed. Most of the time, Elisa's on her own.
"This time I'll drive."
Fun to see the gargoyles reactions when Matt is introduced. Goliath's not upset. He appreciates that Elisa has a loyal partner and probably gave her permission to bring Matt in from the cold long before. The truth is they know Matt already.
Elisa: "better late than never".
And then immediately Goliath is suspicious. "Trust is not... to be bartered."
As creators, we were playing both ends here. Omitting pieces of conversation. Trying to get the audience to believe that Matt might in fact be betraying G. But also making it believable that in hindsight, he wasn't. Not cheating, in other words.
At this point, my six year old daughter Erin said: "I don't like Bluestone in this one. He's usually very nice. But in this one he's mean." That's how she saw him. Not righteously angry with Elisa for the lies. Just mean.
It took remarkably more effort than I'd have expected to get things to hook up with our Teaser from the beginning of the act. To help, I reused a couple of Mace's line as prompts to the audience.
It's fun to hear Tom Wilson playing Matt playing at being a bad guy.
I like all the hotel references. "Check out time" etc.
Mace falls down the shaft and grabs the cables with his bare hands. One hundred years old or not, that's gotta hoit.
I like Matt using his coat as a parachute. That wouldn't be necessary except for that darn Gallileo. If it weren't for him, Goliath, being heavier, could have fallen faster than Matt to catch up to him. :)
And of course, I enjoy the irony of Mace being trapped in a Hell of his own making. And i like the notion that the Illuminati just left him there to rot. He had outlived his usefulness. A non-member had found him thanks to his annoying sentimental habit of visiting Pine Lawn. AND he had failed to hold the Gargoyle in the Cabal. Breaking a perfect record. Woops.
Goliath refers to Bluestone as his friend. That's to make sure the audience is clear that Goliath was in on the plan from the beginning. Later, I gathered, some people still didn't get that.
We have a great Turning to Stone sequence here. Every once in a while it's nice to remind the audience that this is unique and special. Seeing it through a new characrer's eyes is a great way to do that.
I love Elisa and Matt's conversation. Elisa reveals that she's subconsciously been keeping the gargs to herself because it made her feel special. Explains a lot about "Her Brother's Keeper", doesn't it? And Matt admits to something similar. I think we all do little things to help ourselves stand out, even if no one notices them but us.
Maria then helps us see that Matt and Elisa are going to be okay.
And finally, our Hacker tag. (This episode had like six tags.) Matt gets his pin. I thought that was kinda cool...
What say all of you....
Mel. Celestial writes...
HI! Hope that you're not bored with me yet! Now on to the questions...
~ Since the clone Delilah is actually a cross between Demona and Elisa, is it possible that she could give birth or, like, break out of the stone-by-day spell?
Greg responds...
Anything's possible, if you're going to put it that way. But largely, Delilah's genetic structure was taken from Demona. Only cosmetic elements were borrowed from Elisa. Of course Delilah does have some human DNA. But she's about 90% gargoyle.
Delilah is certainly capable of having a baby. So's Demona and Elisa. Doesn't mean any of them will.
And Delilah does turn to stone during the day.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Timeline questions:
1.What year did Iago decieve Othello about Desdemona and Goliath?
2.When were Luach, Canmore and Gillecomgain born?
3.For that matter have you decided what's the exact date of Elisa's birth?
Greg responds...
All dates are tentative, at least until I finish my current reworking of the Timeline. But this is as up-to-date as I have it. (You caught me in the right office today.)
2. Gillecomgain was born in 982.
1. Iago deceived Othello in 993.
2. Canmore was born in 1031.
2. Luach was born in 1033.
3. Elisa was born in 1968. I haven't given her a specific birthdate at this time.
By the way, if anyone sees a reason why these dates (or any others I might post) don't make sense, don't hesitate to let me know.
Not that you would.
Mel. Celestial writes...
HiIIII!!!!!
1. Okay, so G&E's relationship is the only bridge, and Clan Manhattan didn't mind it at all; how do the other clans around the world might approve of it ?
2. That priceless look on Hudson's face(The Awakening eps.3), what was he thinking about those two(G&E, of course!), and did he find it appaling at first?
Greg responds...
1. Is this a reference to a previous response? If so, I've forgotten what we were talking about.
2. I'd say he was initially non-plussed. But I think he thought it healthy that Goliath was at least making a connection to a human.
Siren writes...
I didn;t see this in the archieves and was just curious...
In Eye of the Beholder, whose idea was it to dress Elisa as Belle from Beauty and the Beast. It just seemed too perfect and at such a good time in the 1st season to do so.
Also a slightly related question...Where did Goliath learn how to ballroom dance? Demona just doesn't seem the type to have done so before 998AD ;)
Greg responds...
That was my idea, I believe.
And Goliath didn't really need to know how to "ballroom dance". He just needed to be strong enough to hold Elisa and move to the music. It wasn't a contest.
Justin writes...
Here we go again...
1) Will Goliath and Elisa ever have kids?
2) Will Brooklyn and Katana have kids in the 2008 rookery?
3) Will Lexington?
Thanks
Greg responds...
1, 2, and 3. They will be parents to all the children of the clan.
Chapter XXVI: "High Noon"
Following fast on the heels of City of Stone, here's my ramble on High Noon...
The recap is interesting here. It's all Coldstone oriented. Demona, Macbeth and the Weird Sisters aren't mentioned. Nothing from City of Stone, despite this being a direct sequel to those events. The reason is that the recaps got early criticism on a Disney Afternoon mailing list for giving too much away. We'd show a villain who didn't appear until the end of Act One, thus cueing our audience to expect that villain all along. A valid criticism. So we tried to adjust here. Coldstone's participation wasn't a secret. The episode opens in his "internal cyber-world" and he's shown dormant in the Clock Tower in the very next scene. But when Demona and Macbeth first walk past Elisa and Morgan, we're not supposed to know who they are. So I intentionally kept them out of the recap to preserve that reveal.
The heather Othello gathers has no scent. Why not? Everything in that world, except for the souls of the three gargs was simply a mental construct. Sight, sound, touch. So why not smell? No chemical senses, you might argue. But why no chemical senses? Why touch and not taste? I think that the lack of smell was an unconscious or subconscious boundary that Desdemona did not want to cross. Something to remind her that this world is not real. For all we know, Othello and Iago could smell whatever they imagined they could smell.
I like seeing Hudson and Broadway learning to read. We cheated a bit. I'm not sure they could have progressed as fast as they did in the short time since "Lighthouse". But we took that liberty to show that they had been working assiduously at it.
I have mixed feelings about Hudson's "Why would she want to 'hit a sack'?" line. On the one hand, I'm not sure we ever did enough of this. Playing with the contrasts in language and expression between their world and ours. On the other hand, it just seemed a bit late in the game for Hudson not to have heard this one already. (And for that matter, I have no idea when that particular phrase originated. For all I know they've been hitting the sack since the Middle Ages.)
Elisa makes a point of saying that she's "no hero". Just a gal doing a job. But of course, we know that's not true. It's simply how she'd prefer to view herself -- particularly when she's so tired. I tried to use this episode to emphasize that Elisa works the night shift. That she gets off work just before sunrise. Starts work just after sunset. (I actually imagine that she works a four day ten hour shift, plus mucho overtime.) Sometimes it seemed like the fans had forgotten that. I got a lot of questions back then like: "She works during the day and hangs with the gargoyles at night. When does she sleep?"
Morgan has a real nice role in this one. Keith is great as Morgan. So distinctive from Goliath in a part that was a mere throwaway in Awakening, Part One. Morgan and Elisa's easy rapor in this episode and Avalon One is what gave me the idea that he might someday ask her out (on that 2nd Halloween episode I've mentioned a few times). And the notion of a Keith-Salli-Keith triangle tickled me a bit.
Enter Macbeth as a perp with a human Demona dressed as a cop. (Always nice to show our characters in different costumes on occasion.) I'm curious how many people IMMEDIATELY recognized Demona as herself? After all, you'd only gotten a BRIEF glimpse of her human form in "The Mirror". And we hadn't shown it at all in "Vows" or "City of Stone". In fact, City of Stone began what we then called our Third Tier of stories. (Tier One was the first season. Tier Two was the first eight episodes of the second season: Leader, Legion, Metamorphosis, Lighthouse, Silver Falcon, Mirror, Eye of the Beholder, Vows.) And of course, City of Stone was transitional, so one could argue that Tier Three was beginning here with High Noon. Anyway, Demona's in atypical dress and species. Who knew it was her?
And once you did know, what were you thinking? The gargoyles have the same questions, I'd imagine. Last they (and you) saw, Mac and Demona hated each other, and had been taken away by the seemingly benevolent Weird Sisters. What was going through your heads about all this? Did you wonder at the seeming inconsistencies, like their knowledge of the Clock Tower? Their ability to get Coldstone out of the tower in daylight, unseen?
When my son Ben saw Demona, he thought it was one of the "triplets", which is what he calls the Weird Sisters. (They've fast become his favorite characters.) When I pointed out that she had red hair and not white, yellow or black, he was resistent to giving up on the idea that they weren't going to appear. (I was glad they eventually did. And now I wonder what he's going to think about the next seven episodes in which they do NOT appear.)
Throughout this, we cheat a bit on Elisa's exhaustion. We knock her out, but keep her tired. The subtle differences between various means of being unconscious and their effects on how tired one is confuse me.
I love Mac and D's exchange...
Mac: "You're still thinking like a gargoyle."
D: "I am a gargoyle." And don't you forget it.
Again, back in those days I just thought the audience would get revved up merely because we were teaming up THREE of our major villains. Macbeth, Demona and the villainous side of Coldstone. In Batman or Superman that would be a BIG EVENT. A huge threat to the hero. Did it have that effect on you guys? I feel vaguely that in a strange way, it did not. That our villains were so complex, that for once they backfired on us. That it wasn't viewed as, "Wow, our heroes have barely survived an encounter with one of those guys, how will they handle three?" Rather, the conflict was less interesting than the machinations and personalities. Am I being clear? Your thoughts?
This episode had some truly gorgeous animation in it. And the transformation scenes are both very cool. The Pain Link plays well here, though occasionally seems more geared to comedy than drama for some reason. The theme of gifts coming with a price... particularly the gifts of tricksters is emphasized in this scene.
Meanwhile Othello is desperately trying to remain an ostrich with his head in the sand. A position that on at least one level, Elisa 'believes' she'd like to take as well. With Othello, I think it's a real possibility that he will never act. With Elisa, I don't think we believe it for a moment. That's part of the reason they're both in there. To make sure that the theme of "Standing Up" is emphasized. Which brings us to the title, "HIGH NOON". That was one of mine, I believe. And I stole it right from the Gary Cooper movie. Sure we'd have a battle at High Noon. Because this was Elisa's story, not the gargoyles. Because the gargoyles would be asleep and vulnerable. But also because it was that kind of archetypal the-hero-stands-alone western battle.
You may notice that Xander Berkeley (the voice of Iago) does not appear in this episode. Because Iago has no lines when he's not in control of the Coldstone body. Again, I'm always so impressed with what a great job Michael Dorn does contrasting the Othello and Iago personalities without actually changing his voice.
I like Elisa's line when Brooklyn asks her if she recognized the woman with Macbeth. "She seemed familiar." Think about this for a second. If this was real life and not a cartoon, do you think you'd recognize Demona in Dominique? And yet I completely buy that Elisa recognized something in there. There's a strange nega-intimacy between Elisa and Demona. (Which is one of the sick reasons why I created Delilah, later.)
Goliath and Elisa engage in a little dueling patronizing here. Elisa has to go back on shift, so can't accompany the 'goyles to Mac's place. Goliath is pretty smug when he says the six of them can handle it. (The smugness, I hope, is undercut when he follows it up by saying, "You have a whole city to protect." Which is how he views it.) Then Elisa talks to them like they're little kids. She wants a full report when they get back. (Who says these two weren't made for each other?)
Lex, who has been and will continue to be very adept at breaking alarm systems, etc., for once admits that it's all too easy.
I like the moment when Goliath taps the camera with his wing. A nice little touch. And very well animated.
Lex is always the voice of warning in regards to Coldstone. This is important. Goliath listens to Lex this time. And Lex is fooled when Coldstone reveals Demona's involvement, seemingly before they know Demona is involved. I thought that was very clever on the villains' part.
Bronx smells Demona behind the closet, just as he did behind the tapestry.
I like how the marble bust flies and crashes. Another nice touch in the boarding and animation. Nice weight to the whole Brooklyn-Demona-Bronx fight scene.
I liked staging the Macbeth, Husdon, Broadway fight in a library. Felt like a thematic rematch from "Lighthouse".
The pain link here is a BIT of a cheat. Usually with them in different rooms on different floors, it wouldn't be quite this intense. Maybe the library is directly above whatever room Demona was in.
Lex is sure Coldstone's wrong about Demona. Brooklyn's "Uh, guess again." line is fun.
The entire battle at Macbeth's place is part of a technique I enjoy using on occasion called "Suspended Structure". This is really an Elisa and Othello Story. But we let the gargs carry the action for a period of time, while the true protagonists can't or won't take action. This keeps the story moving, without compromising the inaction of our "leads".
Demona confronts Elisa at the clock tower. The animators get a little carried away here with some of Demona's body language. God knows, it's fun to watch. But would she really do all those sexpot poses? Is that in character?
It is fun to see her hail a taxi though.
Morgan's back. Elisa now looks VERY tired. Again, great work from the animators. It's all in the eyes. Morgan helps Elisa though he thinks she's just talking about normal copwork. It only proves there's really no such thing as a "Normal Life". Morgan certainly doesn't think he has one.
Meanwhile Desdemona's gettin antsy. It's the "in" that the Weird Sisters need. They take over. Unfortunately, here, the animators screwed up. The three Desdemona's were supposed to have silver, gold and raven hair. Instead, in most shots, they just look like three Dessies. Then when they finally do get the hair right, it's just before they merge back into one Desdemona. At which point, the hair color should have been Des'. Instead, I think it's Luna's -- briefly. Oh, well. Anyway, I could have just done this with Desdemona herself. But I wanted to give the audience a hint that the Weird Sisters were still involved. Ben was thrown by the hair. He almost didn't believe these were the triplets.
I like the line: "Even shadows must be true to their shade."
High Noon at Belvedere Castle. Coldstone wonders that he can see the sun. Again, that's me making sure people are clear that Coldstone is RE-ANIMATED STONE, not flesh. I don't think it's visually clear. (Part of the problem being that Othello's coloring is too similar.)
Then Elisa arrives -- counting on Macbeth's honor to keep Demona from shooting her. For that reason, she intentionally doesn't bring her service revolver to the party. Quite the gambit. Elisa also counts on Demona's temper -- and on the fact that Demona is unaccustomed to fighting with reduced human strength. She goads Demona: "I'm here to save him." and "You fight like a rookie." I love, positively LOVE, the former of those two lines. Elisa is a hero in her own right. Though Goliath has rescued her on occasion, I felt we did a pretty good job of always evening the score. She's no damsel in distress.
Mac & Coldstone: "This is diverting." "You have no idea." (Quotations approximate.) I like that. A tip of the hat to my being a guy, if you will.
We cheat a bit here on the pain link too. One could argue that Mac IS feeling the pain. But he's ready for it and covering. He does seem to be grimacing a bit when he says, "You have no idea." But still, I think we cheated.
I love the animation on the Othello, Desdemona, Iago fight.
Battle over, Coldstone leaves. Sends himself into exile. This is the gargoyle way.
And hey, our jogger is back. Again wondering where all these statues are coming from. That's just fun continuity for me. And Elisa: "Don't ask me. I'm just taking a nap."
And then the whole final scene between Mac and D and the sisters is so much fun. I love the sense of the fog lifting from their eyes. "What Primary Objective?" "Why are we working together?"
And I'm also proud of the trick. A very Xanatosian tag here. Steal Coldstone to distract the gargs from noticing the thefts of the gate, book and eye.
And how about that reference to "The coming battle..." that the Sisters end the episode on? What did you all think of that at the time?
I'll try to post the High Noon writer's memo tomorrow. (Meant to do it yesterday, but I forgot.) Anyway, Done rambling. You're turn. (Again, I'm interested in both your original and current responses to the episode.)
Cassandra writes...
Since stroking hair is gargoyle equilvant to a kiss, all the times Goliath touched Elisa's hair was a kiss? And how long would it take him to get used to kissing with lips?
Just feeling a trifle silly with that thought. But I seem to remember Goliath touching her hair fondly before they noticed or decided to act on the feelings they have for each other.
Later.
Greg responds...
Kissing is special, particularly romantic kissing. I'm not sure one wants to "get used to it" ever. It will always be special to Goliath.
And yes, everytime he touched her hair in any intimate way (as opposed to by accident or incidentally) it was the basic equivalent of a kiss. But by the way, it wasn't often.
Tk writes...
Ok, Hi how are you/
This is driving me crazy. I hate going to sites when i don't know what they are talking about. In the achives you said something about Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other.Was this a episode did i like miss a series or something. What about Delihla (i didn't spell that right)Please explain where did this come from are they your ideas or something.(i'm not dissing them, i'm just confused)Oh and i say pics with the gargs in the street with not panicing people where did that come from.
Oh, and from what i do understand about this one thing which is little,are you trying to break up the star couple. Saying Elisa and Jason could maybe work it out, or something about Morgan. I don't know i just need to know if i missed something or what.
Please help!!!!!
Greg responds...
"Elisa and Golith dating not having to be each other"
I don't know what that phrase means. That can't be an exact quote of mine, can it?
Proofreading would help, Tk.
But I gather you are referring to a story that I did NOT get around to doing. A story where Elisa and Goliath would temporarily break up. Where they would go on a double date on Halloween. Goliath with Delilah. Elisa with either Jason or Morgan. (I hadn't decided which.) And no, I wasn't breaking them up. The double date would be a fiasco -- for a number of reasons. And E & G would wind up a couple again.
Does that help?
Mel. I. C. writes...
ME Again! Hi!!!
1. If G. an' E. really,REALLY want a kid together, thought of Titania or Xanatos offering them the chance, would they choose sorcery or science?
2. Any other gargs and humans out there pursuing relationships like G & E??
Greg responds...
1. Ultimately, neither.
2. No.
(The Guppi) writes...
Do you think Elisa artifically straightens her hair?
Greg responds...
No.
Corrine Blaquen writes...
Does Elisa have a middle name? If so, what is it?
Greg responds...
Yes, she has one. And, no, like Fox and Xanatos, I've never given any thought to it before now. I tried coming up with something spur of the moment -- as I just did with F&X (see SMART-ASS RESPONSES), but Elisa's middle name is too important. And I don't have my baby name book with me.
Anonymous writes...
Hi! I'm Mel from Malaysia and I just wan't to tell you that how much that I'm REALLY hooked and into your original and unique cartoon and it's colourful characters I adore. Well, actually, I do have a vast of shooting questions that might just nip your time away....But you know how Daddies monitor their 17 year old daughters, so I'll just ask a few.
1.I'm so head over heels giddy about the 'steam' between the romantic Duo(G&E), but it also kinda surprises me that the other clan member didn't mind the sparks, I mean, being two different species(I don't mind,REALLY!=]); How come? What did they see within that?
2.Should ever IF THEY have a kid, how'd Demona react to the hybrid
Greg responds...
1. I think that it happened so gradually, that by the time it occured to everyone (but maybe Hudson), Elisa was already part of the family. Too LOVED to be rejected.
2. I don't know how to answer a hypothetical based on a hypothetical. What do I disown first?
Laura 'ad astra' Ackerman writes...
A recent comment on the final scene in Hunter's Moon III brought a question to mind. Being typically human I had not realized Goliath putting Elisa's hair behind her hair was an equivilent to kissing- I just saw it as an intimate gesture. Is Elisa conscious of the meaning of stroking hair to to gargoyles?
Greg responds...
Not fully, but she did read it as an intimate gesture, as you did.
Todd Jensen writes...
When Elisa dies, would Goliath and his clan be likely to give her a Wind Ceremony for her funeral? Although she's human, she is a member of the clan.
(This is something that I've been wondering for some time, actually, but I hesitated for a long while for submitting it in case it appeared as an idea. I certainly didn't intend it to be one, at any rate - more just wondering about the bearing that a gargoyle custom you'd recently described might have on Elisa's membership in the clan).
Greg responds...
Yes. The clan would definitely give Elisa a wind ceremony. I'm not saying who would still be around by the time she dies, but whoever is, they would.
Vilija writes...
Hi Greg! Happy Christmas! My question this time's on Christmas presents.
What does Goliath want for Chirtmas this year?
(Does he celebrate Christmas? If not, what does he and other gargs celebrate? Winter Solistce?)
How about Demona? (Santa knows she's been naughty, though.)
What'd Elisa like this year?
Thank you, .... Wait! Today's winter solistce! Have a good one. (and a good holiday.)
P.S. What're you wishing for this year?
Greg responds...
I'd lean more toward Solstice than Christmas. And I don't think Goliath is very interested in material possessions.
Demona wants the same old thing. A human-free earth, and all the power, with no guilt.
Elisa -- I think she'd like a quiet night at home with Goliath.
And me? Well, I wanted the video to Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And I got it. YEAH!
matt writes...
hooray!!! the presidentiaal election is over!!! who do you think Elisa would have voted for?
Greg responds...
I'm guessing Gore, based on her place of residence and background. But I may be biased.
Demona Taina writes...
Dear Greg:
If the gargoyles' equivalent of kissing is stroking each other's hair, then was Goliath "kissing" Elisa when he tucked her hair behind her ear in "Hunter's Moon III"?
It appears to be so, judging by the look on his face and the soft tone of his voice. He seemed to be expressing his love to her, I suppose, by caressing her hair and lightly touching her cheek. Then Elisa, being a human, jumped and kissed him instead, being the humans' way to express love for someone else.
Well, is this true, or am I totally off? :P
Thank you for your time. :)
Greg responds...
You are right on the money.
VF writes...
I've not read anything here before about this theory, so I hope I don't shock anybody. But have you ever thought about the evidence in the series that - gulp - there is a bit of a subconscious attraction between Elisa and Xanatos? Were you deliberate in creating this underlying current? Again, the intricacies of the characters and the stories are why this show appeals to me so much. Not that either Elisa or Xanatos would ever admit to such a thing, let alone act upon it. In fact, if I read Elisa's characterization right, she'd probably kill me for even suggesting such a thing.
But consider that Xanatos - although looking at Elisa as an adversary - will say things like "the charming Detective Maza" and "I love a woman with delicate wrists," etc. And, really, isn't he just a little too interested in her life? I have no doubt of his love and attraction for Fox, but Elisa is very similar to Fox - only working on the side of selflessness vs. selfishness. Xanatos seems to like strong women who can hold their own. And when he claims the feud against the gargoyles is over in "Hunter's Moon," his voice is almost - gulp again - tender when he says to Elisa, "He's waiting for you."
For Elisa's part in this - well, sure it's absurd to be attracted to a man who's turned your brother into a mutate. So I'll again caution that I'm meaning this on a very, very subconscious level. But you can't convince me there isn't some very passionate love/hate heat passing between these two in "Eye of the Beholder" when Xanatos prepares to take off in pursuit of Fox-as-werefox and Goliath, and Elisa jumps up and grabs her arms around him, looks him in the eye and very emphatically says, "I trust you about as far as I can throw you, Xanatos." And then he puts his arm around her waist and they're off because he doesn't have time to argue with her. It's almost as if you don't know if she wants to strangle him or kiss him. Similarly, look at the intensity of love/hate Demona has for Goliath. I also think you could argue that another reason why Fox attacks Elisa (who, to the werefox, appears to transform into Fox) is out of a tinge of jealousy. (You did say that episode was very romantically charged.) Also, Xanatos is a strong, attractive, intelligent ... human male (!) who, like Elisa, seems to have a bit of a nocturnal nature and has a seemingly predestined interest in and connection to the gargoyles. If he weren't so self-serving and nasty and wouldn't alter the physical chemistries of her relatives ... and if she hadn't met Goliath ... , heck, she could really go for a guy like him.
So, enough sacrilege out of me. I'd love to get your take on this. And thanks.
Greg responds...
Well, I think there's little doubt that Xanatos finds Elisa attractive. Consciously so. Subconsciously, he may admire her even more than he realizes, and for things that he wouldn't acknowledge valuing. I think he's found the right match in Fox, but that doesn't mean he's gone blind or deaf, literally or figuratively.
As for Elisa, that's more of a stretch, I believe. Even subconsciously. Look at their first meeting, before she even knew he was a bad guy. She doesn't seem even vaguely interested to me there. Now keep in mind, that we intentionally gave them moments together -- to play AGAINST the stereotype. The one you mention where he flies up with her in "Eye" is a perfect example. In any other series (I like to think) that would be an example of heroic looking guy and gal working together. But our hero is amoral at best. He's interested in another girl. And our gal likes the monster and hates him. I think her distaste for Xanatos is real, and it runs damn deep.
But to be fair, Xanatos is changing. And I think Elisa acknowledges that change, at least subconsciously. She is no longer in open conflict with him. I think that his love for Fox had an effect on her. As does his obvious love for his son, and the way he protected the gargs when the chips were down. And when Xanatos says, "he's waiting for you", it is tender. But it's directed at her and Goliath, and doesn't reflect any personal desire.
The Goliath/Demona thing is very different to me.
Finally, when Fox attacks Elisa, it's not out of jealousy. It's because in her confused state, the Were-Fox is attacking the remnants of the human Fox, trying to wipe that humanity away. There's an element of self-hatred there. But it has little to do with jealousy.
NOW... all of the above is simply my opinion. True, I'm something of an authority, but other interpretations are valid if you believe them to be valid. In any case, yours was fun.
Elisa Ann Goliath writes...
More Questions:)
You were asked before how old Elisa is, but you didn't have the info with you at the time, so I ask you again; How old is Elisa? Also, how did you come up with Elisa's name? (I love the name, and I'm glad you went with that instead of Maria Chavez.)
Greg responds...
Again, I don't have the age info with me. Sorry.
Elisa was the name of the younger sister of a guy (Ira Rosenblat) that I went to elementary school with. The name always stuck with me for some reason.
Elisa Ann Goliath writes...
Hi! It's me again! Just wanted to ramble a little bit about E&G's relationship. (And a comment or two would be nice:)
Lately I've been thinking a lot about marital relationships. (You know, what makes a good one. My parents recently had their 41st anniversary, I guess that's why I'm thinking about it.) Now, I'm only 16, and I don't presume to know everything about marriage, but I think I can safely say I have a more realistic view of marriage than most of my peers.
In the series, as a HUGE fan of the E&G relationship, of course my main concern is for E&G to get "married", but really if you think about it, they already have a relationship that is.... I don't know, kind of marriage-like. In the Bible, men are commanded by God to love their wives as Christ loved the church (be willing to die for) and women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way). With Elisa and Goliath, Goliath loves Elisa with all the tenderness of his heart, is willing to die for her, and he values her and her opinions, and is therefore always asking for her input and for her help. Also, since he loves her, he is not demanding or arbitrary, making it easy for her to submit. She, of course, loves him as much if not more than he loves her, is willing to die for him, and is usually ready to submit when he makes a final decision on something, whether or not it is what she suggested. As a proud, independent woman this cannot always be easy, but she makes the sacrifice because she loves him and because she knows that he is only doing what he thinks is best.
Well, I've just been wanting to get that down on record.
Thanks! TTFN!
Greg responds...
Elisa Ann, I can't let it go. I should, but I can't. Cuz I've got a daughter, and I wouldn't want her to someday read this exchange and think that even by ommision, I might possibly agree with you. I don't agree with the following statement you made: "women are to submit to their husbands (like it are not, feminist ladies, it works best this way)." I don't think it works best that way. I don't see any reason why women in particular should sublimate themselves to men. Why not men to women? Or why submit at all. Why not just be true to yourself, and find someone who compliments that truth? That's how I see Elisa and Goliath. Whether I succeeded or not, that's the kind of relationship I tried to forge between them.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree with it. And I don't see Elisa as even VAGUELY submissive. He respects her. She respects him. Each of them do things at times that the other wishes they would not. Not just Goliath, but Elisa as well. She is strong, proud, independent, loving. All the things you've listed. So is he. EITHER would die for the other. (Not just him for her.) I'm gratified you like their relationship. But I think you have subtly mischaracterized it to fit views you already hold.
Chapter XXI: "Vows"
Written by Shari Goodhartz
Michael Reaves, Story Editor
Benny: "But Daddy, when it's dark they get alive. But when it's light, the get frozen like a statue."
Last night, the kids, my sister, my wife and I all watched "Vows" together. Time to ramble.
Back to the Golden Cup Bakery Building. As I noted in the previously posted memo about this episode, I wanted a little opening battle, but I didn't want to waste time in a tight, packed script explaining how this came about. It does beg the question though. Assume that X contacted Elisa. She told Goliath. He went ALONE? His friends allowed this? Hmmm.
Xanatos knows from the letter to himself what to do, but I sometimes wonder just how detailed the letter was. I like to think it was fairly sketchy. That exactly HOW Xanatos got Goliath to come was his own machinations. Otherwise, though he takes the credit for the letter, the truth is that the plan itself wasn't his idea. He got the idea from the letter. And he wrote the letter based on what he had done, which he had gotten from the letter. None of this is really his to own, though he does claim ownership. So I like to think that at least some of the details were X's. For example, X knows what G will respond to, i.e. Demona.
Hudson, on hearing about the wedding, suddenly makes the connection to the long ago incident when he met the Goliath from the future. So he's strangely ambivalent. Elisa on the other hand, seems flat out jealous to me. After the events of "The Mirror" and "Eye of the Beholder", she's much more aware and focused on her feelings for Goliath. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO ACT ON THOSE FEELINGS. At this time, she thinks it's impossible. But that doesn't change how she feels. And now, she's jealous. Goliath's feelings for Elisa are just as intense, but so are his feelings for the "Angel" of his youth. He HAS to give it one last chance. (And this will be the last chance. The final nail in the coffin of his and Demona's "marriage".) Brooklyn, meanwhile, is just knee-jerk against anything involving Demona.
PETROS XANATOS is introduced. Again, I wonder why he was invited. Was he also included in the letter? Or did Xanatos invite him to prove something to his father. Is X that needy? Or did X invite him to the wedding, because of course he'd invite his father to his wedding, and his already planned "honeymoon" to 975 shouldn't alter his decorum. Perhaps he's mildly surprised his father winds up coming along? Anyway, Petros was a fun character. A tough hard physical man. With morals. A great contrast to the son. I knew even then that we'd give Petros and David an arc to their relationship, (one that eventually would culminate in Gathering2).
"Oh, reason not the need." A little King Lear is always nice. And I love Petros' attitude on the line, "And the armor?" I mean what would you say to your son if you saw him dressed like that? I'd like to know how many people had sort of forgotten that X was even wearing armor (we're so used to it) until Petros made an issue of it?
I love all the irony in the dialogue between Petros and David. David knows what he's planning. He must be smiling when Petros says "I'd like to get my hands on the man who gave you that coin." And when David says, "Someday, I'll prove to you that I'm a self-made man," he must really be patting himself on the back.
I love the voice work of Keith and Marina when doing their teen-age counterparts. So subtle, yet it's always clear which Goliath and Demona is talking at any given moment.
CONTINUITY:
Gotta love that storage room in the clock tower. The Eye of Odin, the Grimorum, half the Phoenix Gate, and, oh, yes, a comatose Coldstone. By the way, despite what the memo said, I think generally, Goliath carried that Gate in the pouch attached to his belt. Not behind some brick. We hadn't actually come up with that pouch yet, not until the World Tour. But using RetCon, I think that's where he kept it until they moved to the clock tower and Demona tried to kill him, Hudson and Elisa in "Long Way to Morning".
One interesting thing: this is the first episode where we actually CONFIRM that the ILLUMINATI does exist. Matt's mentioned it. Even chased it in SILVER FALCON, but we've never been shown any proof of it's existence until now. Was anyone surprised by that?
Judge Roebling was interesting in theory, though not so much in the episode. I'd like to do more with him some day. I also thought that it was interesting that despite seeing the tape of the Gargoyles in advance. And not reacting outwardly when he saw Goliath, he still gasps when Demona enters. What is it about her? When she entered, Benny turned to me and said: "She's queen of the Gargoyles." Oh. So that's it.
(And everytime Xanatos and Fox are on screen together, Benny likes to point out that he and Erin dressed up as them at the last Gathering. "That's me. That's you, Erin.")
To some extent, X must have filled D in on his plan. I love her "acting" when she enters and gives her bitter "excuse" for being there to Goliath. She's playing hard to get!
I love Petros: "Unnacceptable." He's still trying to teach David the error of his ways.
The Gate itself is very idiosyncratic. It's size, the size of its portal, and the duration the portal stays open seems to vary not just from episode to episode but from scene to scene. Sometimes it annoys me, like when Princess Elena removes the Gate from her sleeve, and suddenly it's bigger than her hand. But now I'm just amused by it. Again, if you think of it as a steam valve for the timestream, it explains a lot.
I love the little sound that Paca put in when the two pieces of the Gate first come together. What a tip-off that was, yet it's subtle. Did anyone think about the significance of the talisman that Demona had shared with Goliath before she started speaking in Latin and flames appeared out of nowhere?
It was hard to make people understand the time loop a bit. But it seemed really hard to make them see why I kept wanting to repeat scenes to show the connective tissue. We had to squeeze in Owen's "Honeymoon" line the second time. No one left space for it.
For the first of many times in the series, someone (X) says the line: "It's not where, it's when". (Erin: "I know when.")
I love X & Fox's relationship. "Having fun." "A marvelous time." Great stuff.
Hudson gets a close look at 1995 Goliath and immediately sees the age and wear and tear on the guy. (I love the shot of Goliath gagging him.) That says a lot for Hudson, because the visual difference between the two Gs was extremely subtle in the animation -- when it existed at all.
Knowing what we had planned (more or less) for Avalon, we were already laying groundwork here for that. Setting up the combined power of the Gate, Grimorum and Eye. Setting up the Archmage's desire for that power. Further demonstrating his enmity for the people he'd wind up using. Of course, making Demona his apprentice was fun. Tells a lot about her own desire for power that even when she was a good girl, she was still willing to work for the Archmage in order to learn his secrets. Willing even to steal for him.
The Norman Ambassador and Prince Malcolm make a BIG deal about how odd the Xanatoses' clothes are. But were they THAT strange? Was Fox's wedding gown that odd? And even if they were strange, did they look as shabby as Prince Malcolm seemed to suggest?
Not every episode gives you a double wedding. Fox and David. Elena and Malcolm. Hey, did anyone notice that we married off our lead villain? That was very daring, and we all but threw it away in Act One. Was anyone expecting Fox and X to really get married? And once they were, did you think you'd see them have a kid by season's end? I think we broke new ground there.
I like the exchange between Goliath and Hudson. Goliath's trying to explain that he's not a creature of sorcery, but a time traveler. H: "And I suppose you came back in time on the wind." O.k., well sorcery was involved if you're gonna get technical. And Goliath has some amusing tense problems while trying to describe what happened in his recent past, Hudson's FAR future. Then Hudson looks him in the eye and decides to trust him on no further evidence. Cool.
I knew a girl named Bryant from Bar Harbor, Maine once. That's where we got X's home town.
Fox is so proud of her man. But I love Petros' "Mr. Big-Shot Time Traveler" line. Or rather I love the way Morgan Shepard read the line.
How hard did Demona try to do things differently from the way she remembered them being done? She knows Goliath is going to fly down to try and join her and her younger self. She tries to leave before he can get there. But the gate stays open long enough for him to go with. Did it ever occur to her to go somewhen else other than 994? I guess part of it could be chalked up to dim memory. It was over a thousand years ago. And Demona lived through that 1000 years. Even for a very significant event in her life, it must still be very hazy.
That exchange between Demona and Demona is a lot of fun. Demona is so brutal to Demona. (And, hey, she spells out the Gate's power to any audience member who hasn't yet caught on.) "Do not share it with-- Do not share it!" I love that line. Also:
"I am what you will become."
"I will never be like you."
"I don't want to hurt you."
"And I don't want to BE you."
pretty cool stuff.
I also like the moment when we have two gates rolling about on the floor and young Demona and older Goliath both bend over to pick them up. At first we had a lot of discussion as to who should pick up which gate. But the discussion became moot, since after the gate pieces were reunited, they almost always seemed like they had never been broken in the first place. Magic.
And the young Demona, older Goliath scene is also gorgeous.
"What am I to do?"
"Nothing."
Love that. Love his whole "Do nothing/attend the petty jealousy" speech. I think it's very pretty. Very sad. At that moment, does Goliath hope he's changing the future? Or is he simply trying to spare this young Angel a couple extra decades of pain?
Showing Demona's natural bents again: Goliath isn't sure if he remembers the incantation, though he's heard it multiple times by this point. Young Demona, having only heard it ONCE, does remember and uses the Gate perfectly.
"Time Travel's funny that way." At least it is in the Gargoyle Universe with the strict, strict rules that I imposed. Of course, I've always thought that those strict rules made the stories more challenging for the writer and, yet, more fun and satisfying for the viewer.
I also really like Petros' "American Penny" speech. For once the "Xanatos Tag" of victory doesn't go to David.
Where did the expression "More's the pity." come from? I've heard it many times. I know what it means, though that's more from sound and context than from the words themselves. What am I quoting when I use it? Does anyone know? (This isn't a contest. I really don't know.)
Finally, my tape has the weird mistake ending that first aired, which shows Demona and Goliath in the clock tower. It's pretty, but it drives me nuts and I think it's really confusing. But I've talked about that many times before, and I'm sick of it, so this time, I'll let it go.
COMMENTS WELCOME!
Joxter writes...
Something that's been bothering me a while... After the events of Deadly Force, when Elisa gets home she stores her gun in a box that can not accidentally or easily be opened, so as to avoid a repeat of the Deadly Force incident. Yet, what good does her gun do her in that situation? If someone *does* break in and attack her, she suddenly has a problem since she no longer has access to her gun. Granted, we've seen that she can hold her own in hand to hand combat, but it would seem that the entire point of owning a gun, protection purposes, is rendered moot by putting it in a hard to access box. Additionally, one would think Broadway learned his lesson about playing with firearms. So, why does Elisa put her gun in a place it does her no good?
Greg responds...
The gun isn't in her apartment for reasons of protection. The gun is a tool she uses in her work. When not working, it is stored safely away so that NOBODY can accidentally fire it.
Yadira writes...
Greg,
In the Gargoyle episodes, "Turf" we see Elisa Maza working undercover and later busting the bad guys. What other undercover missions of Elisa would you like to have written or seen in Gargoyles and would you have included Matt ,as an undercover agent, as well?
Greg responds...
We did include Matt in Protection.
Eventually, we'd do more with that. But I told the main police stories I wanted to in the first 66.
Yttrium writes...
Greg, I have a minor interest in geneology. Could you please clarify for me what nationalities the following characters are:
1) Elisa, half African-American, half Native American.
2) Xanatos, Greek
3) Matt, I don't know
4) Fox--- well, her dad's probably French and her mom's a fairy...
5) Maria Chavez, Spanish
Could you help me here?
---Ytt
Greg responds...
1. Yes.
2. Greek-American, yes.
3. Jewish-American.
4. Her dad's French-American, yes.
5. Maria's Hispanic-American.
Chapter XX: "Eye of the Beholder"
Written by Steve Perry. Story Edited by Michael Reaves.
It's really just a coincidence that we watched this so close to Halloween (11-2-00). I wasn't trying for that. This was just the next episode in the sequence. Still, when I mentioned before we started that this was the Halloween episode of Gargoyles, the kids got very excited. Erin pointed at the framed cell we have in our bedroom which depicts Goliath and La Belle Elisa dancing. She remembered that it came from the episode we were about to watch. Benny then commented that Elisa and Goliath are going to get married. Erin, who has a clearer memory of the last time we completed the 66 episode sequence corrected him. But I said something cryptic, like you never know. Erin said I needed to make more episodes so that we could find out. From her mouth to God's ears.
In general, the kids were very verbal during this episode, or at least Erin was. Benny started out verbal, but fell asleep with his mom rubbing his tummy somewhere during Act One.
In the opener, a classic scene I think, when he first saw Xanatos and Fox together he said: "That was you, Erin. I was him." in reference to the Fox and Xanatos costumes they wore to the Gathering 2000's masquerade.
Erin really bought into the tension of the episode. And it is very tense. Some terrific pacing to this. She remembered this one with much greater clarity than most. "Uh oh. That's not just any necklace." Etc. Personally, I just love Xanatos' pragmatic proposal. The truth is X should have already known that he was truly in love with Fox. I've just done some research into sentencing while working on and reworking my Gargoyle timeline. Fox & Wolf each received a 16 month sentence for briefly holding that model hostage in "Thrill of the Hunt". They had the opportunity to be parolled after eight months. They were rejected. Instead of waiting a mere eight more months for them to be released free and clear, an impatient Xanatos sets up the events in "Leader of the Pack". Is that a man in love or what? Nevertheless, we get his whole "We're genetically compatible and have the same goals" speech. She asks about love, and he feels himself largely incapable of the emotion. He thinks he's too amoral for that. "I think we love each other as much as two people like us can." (Or something like that. I'm approximating all these quotations.) It's fun.
Then comes the sequence in Mr. Jaffe's store. Erin is still very tense: "Uh oh, that's Fox. She's wearing the necklace." and "She wants to stop it [the necklace] with one arm. But she doesn't want to with the other." Here, Erin's hit right on Fox's internal conflict. Part of her is fighting the Eye, but part of her wants to surrender to its power. When X first confronts her in her bedroom, and when the Werefox emerges and attacks, it doesn't shred him. It throws him down on the bed. There's some powerful primal energy swirling 'round that room. Lucky thing Owen is there, or I'm not sure Xanatos escapes with his dignity intact.
Xanatos takes note and activates Plan A, which will be followed by B and C. And a makeshift D. It becomes almost a parody of all his contingencies and "Xanatos Tags" from previous episodes. For once, he's out of control. And he can't bear to admit it. He pretends (even to himself) that he just needs to recover the valuable Eye of Odin, when what he obviously really wants is to save Fox. "...I'd never have just given it away. Ah, well, spilled milk." (I always thought that was a great and yet feeble cover for his real feelings.)
Speaking of the Eye, how many knew back when it was intro'd in "The Edge" that it would be so important? As I think I've mentioned, the Eye was actually the creation of Disney Interactive which was working on a GARGOYLES VIDEO GAME at the time. They told us about the Eye, and I loved the idea and decided to incorporate it into the show. Unfortunately, we didn't use their design, which had this great crow/raven theme to it, appropriate to Odin. Instead, our design always looked vaguely Egyptian to me. I can't remember, but I think that maybe they're design wasn't ready when we needed to complete our model for "The Edge". Or it might have been poor communication. The Eye was designed at Walt Disney Animation - Japan. At any rate, we knew from the gamer folk that the Eye had metamorphic powers. But I wanted to be more specific. Yes, it would grant power, but it had to grant power that suited the legend of Odin's Eye. The Eye traditionally provided Mimir with the gift of sight. That easily translated to "insight" for me. Which is a kind of power in its own right. The Eye in the Gargoyles Universe would externalize and amplify a major trait of the wearer. And, yes, even then I had plans to eventually intro Odin himself and have him stick the thing back in his empty socket.
I think that shot from inside the elevator shaft when Fox smashes her way in is very cool.
Owen with an Elvis tribute: "Fox has left the building."
CONTINUITY
--The Eye of Odin, of course.
--Mr. Jaffe's poor grocery store.
--X's commando squad (including Bruno) is at the ready, yet still unprepared for the Werefox's fury.
--Since "The Mirror", Goliath is more open about his growing feelings for Elisa. She again defuses things by turning his concerns for her into a more objective statement about friendship.
--Goliath is back in the library. This time studying Werewolves. The information won't be useful, but isn't that just like him?
--Elisa immediately jumping to the conclusion that the were-thing is another of Xanatos' mutated victims like her brother.
HALLOWEEN - The trio are very excited to be able to stroll into the open. "No one'll know who we are." Better yet, "No one will know WHAT we are." The taste of conformity they got in "The Mirror" has opened a window on their need to be a part of something larger than the clan.
Another cool visual: Fox and Goliath circling each other, with Fox on all fours.
I love when Goliath tries to reason with Fox. "If Xanatos is your enemy, then believe me, WE are your friends." How little he knows. The Werefox immediately attacks him. Still conflicted. Throughout the story, Fox fights, but the Eye reasserts.
Time for Plan C. But Owen has noticed the flaw in Xanatos' usually stellar power of contingency. X claims that all he cares about is the Eye. But he's only setting things up so that the gargs will get the eye. Subconsciously, all he wants is Fox. But we have Goliath arrive and interrupt just at that moment so that neither X or the audience has time to focus on the contradicition.
X breaks down. Appeals to Goliath. He's out of control. Up to a point. ("Old habits die hard -- he still has the forsight to plant a bug on Goliath ala "Awakening, Part Three".
Gotta love Goliath's line: "Not a good night for you." It's great as a writer when you can legitimately turn the tables and give Goliath a Xanatos line.
HALLOWEEN 2
Broadway REALLY wanted to dress up as a Detective. So he's got a new trenchcoat and hat. Brooklyn, ever the swashbuckler, is a pirate. And Lex... hmm... what should we make Lex. We settled on a pilot, in keeping with his helicopter prowess, I guess. But it was never too clear what Lex would or should be, and I can't help thinking that Lex had trouble deciding on a costume too.
Of course, Goliath doesn't wear a costume.
Vinnie has a line here. Though officially, it's not Vinnie's first appearance, this one line of Jeff Bennett spoken dialogue "A costume over a costume." is the obvious inspiration for all that followed with the Vinster.
And I love Keith as that witch saying "That is a great, great costume." What a great, great line reading.
BEAUTY & THE BEAST. Finally, we get to hit the nail on the head. A moment so romantic (in a very romantic episode) that even the characters take note. Elisa lets her self go for a moment. Goliath just is. The kids are happy for them.
But "Things are not always as they seem". Goliath breaks the moment by attacking a guy in a werewolf costume.
Note: That Goliath now refers to Manhattan as "My castle, my city." A year earlier (more or less) he was calling it Xanatos' city. I love the notion that Goliath sees hope in Xanatos LOVING someone. And of course, he's right. Xanatos' love for Fox (and later Alex) will result in Goliath getting the castle back. Not war, but love.
Brooklyn and Lex finally get to eat pretzyls. Remember that in Awakening, Broadway ate them all. Meanwhile Broadway eat's a hot dog and BELCHES MIGHTILY. This was really more about all of us indulging ourselves in low humor. We put the burp into the script. Bill Fagerbakke burped loudly. But our sound effects guy Paca Thomas, put in the burp to end all burps.
CONTINUITY AGAIN
--Lex gets very intense (briefly) and wants to go after FOX. He still hates anything or anyone connected to his Pack experience.
--The return of Brendan & Margot.
Gotta love Elisa's costume. Holster for a garter belt. Very sexy. Solved our nudity problem with Fox too. I'm amazed we got away with that.
In a larger sense, I'm amazed we got away with the entire episode. I was very nervous that the notion of X and Fox getting engaged would be rejected. But the BIG BOSSES didn't focus on the fact that the engagement might lead to marriage. And fortunately, they weren't paying attention when that engagement led to marriage, pregnancy and a kid. I don't think they would have allowed it.
I could have done without Broadway eating his hat.
Fox's internal conflict is visualized when she sees Elisa as herself and attacks to silence that human voice inside her once and for all.
When, in slow motion, Goliath intercepts Fox and saves Elisa (who's usually fairly self-sufficient) it may be the purest moment of Hero saving damsel we have in the series. The dress helps of course.
A little HIGHLANDER inspiration here with Fox and the exploding sign.
I love that Owen's right there with the helicopter.
X is still trying to interpret things to suit his old (and dated) world view. He thinks Goliath is trading the Eye for Fox, which of course he wasn't. Goliath doesn't think that way.
"Now you know my weakness."
"Only you would consider love a weakness."
"You've never looked more heroic."
"A momentary lapse, I assure you."
All great lines.
Let's go home.
And Owen, who signed on BECAUSE Fox and Xanatos were so interesting to the Puck, SMILES.
And now a word about the episode from Erin Sydney Weisman (she typed this herself):
I am most interested in this episode. And the episode I watched was a spooky episode. And I liked the episode, because it was a very enchanting episode.
Emmlei writes...
Just something I thought to point out that's been in the back of my head. i recall you commented a couple times about the way Elisa once fingered the number three. i kind of figured since she's a New York cop, she might have picked up a little sign language in the past. the first two fingers and the thumb is how to sign '3' (you sign 4 like you regularly do. after 5 gets to complicated to say here). as a relative newbie to sign language, i say go learn it, it's cool, and it's not that hard to learn! (and it's bound to draw some people's attention :P)
Greg responds...
Good to know. Thanks.
VF writes...
I really admire the patience and dedication of longtime fans and admirers (including yourself) of "Gargoyles." I only discovered the show for myself (with the help of my two young daughters) a bit more than a year ago, and I KEEP hoping that "some day" will come already and new episodes can be made.
Folks can say what they want about Toon Disney, but that's how my daughters found it and shared it with me, so the channel is at least providing the opportunity for a few new viewers to discover the show.
It's clear from watching the series, and then finding this Web site and learning more about the behind-the-scenes processes involved in its making, that there were a lot of thoughtful, creative, talented people behind it. Your ideas about characterization and story continuity have prompted me to post some thoughts and an inquiry here. (It's at the heart of one of the main reasons why I really lament that there aren't any more episodes being made ... yet.)
From a writing point of view, I think "Hunter's Moon, Part III" -- which I realize was a season finale -- would have served as a much better "final" finale for your involvement than "The Journey," which just left everything dangling for me like an unfinished book. Maybe I should say "like an unfinished chapter" because I don't want the book to end. At least in "Hunter's Moon," it ended with a bit of a payoff: an open declaration of mutual love between two main characters ("You know how I feel about you, right?" "How we both feel, yes." and even a kiss). It helped bring together a few loose strands that had been threading from almost the very beginning of the series without completely shutting it off from future development (far from it, actually).
In "The Journey," there is an aborted, sort-of date with very little discussion between Goliath and Elisa about what is really happening between the two of them or that very significant exchange between them from the previous episode. Also, from the information shared in this site, it seems you knew this was your farewell episode in many respects. So I would be interested to learn what you intended to have at work between Goliath and Elisa in this episode because I'm not sure that I "got it" all. I think an argument could be made that the episode, coming immediately in sequence after "Hunter's Moon," implies that a relationship between the two is A-OK with them without any internal conflicts.
Did you really want to make things seem less defined between them and let some time pass before they actually had The Talk about their relationship, specifically to help sustain fans' interest at a time when you may not have known what the future held for the series and their story?
Sorry to ramble on, but I don't want to appear as though I'm sorry you stayed on for one episode too many (again, far from it!) I'd like to learn your thoughts about the episode from a story/character development perspective.
Thank you.
Greg responds...
Well. I was trying to play fair, I think. I was leaving, but the series had 12 more episodes that I was at least supposed to advise on. Most of my positive (try this) advice was ignored, though some of my negative (hey, don't do that) advice was taken. I wanted to give ME some closure, but I wasn't trying to give the series closure.
Specifically, what I was saying was that the journey would continue. That the adventure would continue. That even Japan had gargoyles, and Vinnie (or Greg Weisman) would never be totally out of the picture. That no matter what hassles Goliath and Elisa had ahead of them, that they would still have each other as companions on the journey forward.
This was not to imply that Elisa was all copecetic about loving the gargoyle. But that she knew that she did. That she would never abandon him. And vice versa.
Does that help?
Feel free to ask more specific questions, if I haven't covered it for you.
And by the way, cuts or no cuts, "Deadly Force" or no "Deadly Force", I'm still glad that Toon Disney's airing the show.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Greg, where the adoption is concerned, no, you had never used the word "convenient". In response to a question uou did refer to it as more "conventional" than magical or scientific alteration.
Hmm, so far you have avoided answering to my questions about the species or the gender of the kid... Let's see if you'll answer one about age... Do you see the kid being adopted while still an infant, or when at an older age (able to talk for example)? There are obvious story possibilities in both...
Greg responds...
Have I ever definitively confirmed adoption at all?
If so quote me and reask the question.
Maria writes...
Another silly Question from Silly Maria: ^_^
Why is 'adopting' for Goliath and Elisa more convenient?
I obviously have a very different thinking pattern. I guess I feel that if someone really loved someone else they would be willing to make some sort of change. So that's why I find it hard to believe that Elisa or Goliath can't make a magical change or something. In my mind, just because you change your form doesn't necessarily mean you are changing who you are. It can change a PART of who you are, but it doesn't change everything about you. You are who you are inside. And that includes your SOUL. Your soul is who you are. That's why we are able to differentiate between right and wrong because GOD gave us that gift. We just abuse it sometimes or ignore it, because we are down here on earth to learn. And from circumstance and learning different behaviors, we sometimes become what we were not in the beginning.
So, why would it be so inconvienient? (Bad spelling. . . :P) I mean, I am probably WAY off base. But that's just the way I feel . . . if that's all right.
I guess the problem for us Goliath and Elisa fans is we REALLY want Goliath and Elisa to have a child. Yet, contradictorally, we understand that ethnically, it would be impossible. And yet we hope for a miracle. I guess in my frame of mind, seeing them raise a family of their own would be like some kind of resolution. Strange, isn't it?
Anyway, enough of my rediculous ramblings. I probably don't make any sense - though I try to. It's just hard sometimes to put my thoughts into words. And they don't always come out the way I want them too. So for that I apologize. A hard life has let my communication skills go to par. ^_^!
Well, if that wasn't too - ridiculous - I'll take off now. TTFn. Ta Ta For Now!! :)
Greg responds...
There's nothing wrong with the way you feel.
But it's not the way I feel. I am a secular, at times Pagan, Jew. And yet, I would not convert to another religion for anyone. Not for "love", certainly. If my "love" couldn't accept me for who I am, why would I want her? Most of my life, I dated non-Jews. It's theoretically possible that I might have married one. But I still would not have converted. As it turned out, I did marry a Jew who "practices" the religion more than I do. I haven't gotten "more Jewish" because of her. I've fundamentally stayed the same. And yet, being Jewish is part of who I am. Part of what made me who I am. Same with being short. Same with being nocturnal. Same with being a guy. A heterosexual. A storyteller. I can't change any of these things (or a bunch of other things) without fundamentally changing my identity. Who I am. Who I want to be. I'm not talking about changing breakfast cereals. I'm talking about fundamental factors to my identity in THIS LIFE. Maybe I was someone entirely different in another life, and maybe my "SOUL" is an unchanging light that shines through the prism of each new life. But the prism matters to me. And I think it matters to Goliath and Elisa too. And by the way, I don't see why ADOPTION is any less legitimate a way to share their love with a child than spitting a kid from one's combined loins.
But did I use the word "convenient"? If I did, what was the context? Because the decision was not based on convenience.
Emmlei writes...
original post and reply:Emmlei writes...
ok, i vaguely recall a while back a few questions as to Elisa and Goliath basically raising a child together. a bunch of questions tended to whether it was biological, and if it came about through magic or science. just to get this off my mind, what about adoption?
Greg responds...
What about it?
repost: would adoption be more likely than having a biological child (even if it's through magic or science)?
Greg responds...
It's certainly more conventional.
Emmlei writes...
ok, i vaguely recall a while back a few questions as to Elisa and Goliath basically raising a child together. a bunch of questions tended to whether it was biological, and if it came about through magic or science. just to get this off my mind, what about adoption?
Greg responds...
What about it?
Ambrosia writes...
Pointless question:
Did Elisa ask to be assigned a new gun after Deadly Force? I know I would personally feel uncomfortable carrying around a gun that I had been shot with. I don't know if she thinks or cares about this or if it's an issue at all with her... it just seems kind of creepy to me.
Thank you!
Greg responds...
Elisa goes through so many guns in our series, it's almost funny. So I doubt she had any particular attachment to that one.
DrFaust writes...
Hi, Greg.
While explaining E&G's burgeoning romance, you said this about the "double date": "She would accept a Halloween invitation to go out with either Morgan or Jason."
I have a strange compulsion to go "eww." Morgan? I've always gotten a father-figure vibe from him for some reason. It's not that he's older than Elisa (he is, isn't he?), just that Morgan always struck me as having a more paternal attitude towards Elisa.
Have I completely misread the situation?
Greg responds...
I think you have a bit. Morgan is older than Elisa, but he's not, for example, as old as her father or anything like that. I think Morgan is one of these classic "nice guys" who tries to make a connection as a friend first. Normally, I think that might have worked on Elisa long-term. But Elisa has a tendency to fall for the big, stunning, tragic types like Goliath and Jason. And Morgan and Elisa met only hours before she met Goliath. Frankly, the guy never stood a chance.
Tana writes...
You Asked:
"Does anyone know if "Maza" means "iron" in any Native American language or dialect?"
According to my book of names (it's got like 20,000 names and their meanings, which is totally cool, especially the Athurian names) Maza blaska, which is a Dakota name means "flat iron." So if it's one of those languages where the adjective comes after the subject, then Maza does infact mean Iron in Dakota. Which interestingly enough adds more irony since Dakota was an early choice for Demona's name. ^_^
And you know that J.R.R. Tolkien claimed that all of his novels were fact...you seen to have the same symptom with the Gargoyles.
Greg responds...
I'm not claiming they're fact so much as acknowledging that sometimes storytelling on this show just seems to click with history, existing legend and with dramatic necessity. It's a rare feeling, and I'm humbled by it. All I'm saying is it sometimes feels like the stories are true somehow somewhere, and all I'm doing is (imperfectly) tapping into them.
But I'm not actually delusional.
Aris Katsaris writes...
Okay, what would have the backstory been for Elisa if she had been born in Hong Kong during the Industrial Revolution? :-)
hey- it's you who first mentioned this... Be imaginative. :-)
Greg responds...
Uh...
Well, I'll have to be imaginative, considering I've done no research on Hong Kong or the Industrial Revolution. I don't even know when the Industrial Revolution hit Hong Kong.
But let's figure she wasn't a cop. Or African-Native-American. Also her name wasn't Elisa Maza.
But let's say her father was a cop. Maybe British. Her mother was Chinese. That makes her a bit of an outcast (I think) in Hong Kong society. By necessity that has made her strong. (The alternative was to make her weak, and neither of her parents wanted that.) So for a woman of that time and place, she is atypically independent. She has not married. Her parents married for love, and they will not force either of their daughters or their son to do otherwise. And she has not met anyone who wants a mixed race girl (no matter how beautiful) who isn't anyone's definition of obedient.
Finally, her parents decide to emigrate to the U.S., hoping that there will be more tolerance in the fabled land of democracy. That hope doesn't bare much fruit, but it puts our heroine in New York -- the eventual home of the Gargoyles.
Which would be great, except that no one said that Xanatos had changed backstories. So by the time he brings Wyvern to Manhattan in 1996, our proto-Elisa would be long dead.
(Now wasn't that fun.)
Aris Katsaris writes...
Concerning the whole "Maza" debate. I searched the Internet for about 10 minutes and in http://www.code-it.com/translation.htm there's an English-Lakota(Sioux) dictionary.
It says "Maza" indeed means "iron". Congrats - that's one mistake that wasn't made. :-)
Greg responds...
I thank you. And though he doesn't realize it, Paul Lacy thanks you. He's the one that did the original research that got us that name.
I guess Elisa is Very Multi-Racial. You have to figure that on her mother's side she most likely has both African and Caucasian ancestors. And on her father's side we're looking (at minimum) at Sioux and Hopi. With possibly some Navajo in there too.
For some reason that pleases me.
Am I missing anything?
Melissa writes...
Hey Greg,
I've always thought that Elisa was one of the greatest characters on the show. She is a positive role model for not only girls/women, but to everyone. She is strong, intelligent, and a great cop. Which got me to thinking.
In the last scene of "Metamorphosis", Elisa is crying in the middle of what seems to be a haystack in the clock tower over her brother's mutation. I would have never thought that a strong character like her, would sit down and cry in a haystack while the gargoyles can plainy see her. Not that crying is bad or anything, but it seems too out-of-character for Elisa to choose to have the gargoyles see her bawl, when she could have gone back to her apartment instead. Was there any significance or reason why she did decide to go to the clocktower?
Thanks!!
(Any additional comments on this scene would be great as well!)
Greg responds...
A haystack?
Anyway, I think Elisa is a good role model. Flawed, but strong.
But I don't think that her crying in front of her friends is a flaw. I think it shows strength of character. She doesn't need to hide her emotions. And though they couldn't help her, I think she wanted to be surrounded by those that she loved and loved her, since she couldn't be with her brother.
As to why in the clock tower, keep in mind that Goliath probably flew her back to the clock tower/precinct house from the Castle. And that her car was at the precinct. So instead of waiting to break down until she got home. "Being brave". She was honest.
Todd Jensen writes...
Another Demona question. One thing that I noticed was that while Demona and Elisa were serious enemies throughout the series, they haven't really had a head-on clash since "Avalon Part Three". In "Sanctuary", Elisa opposes Demona and is the one to temporarily kill her, but Demona never even notices Elisa, being too busy fighting Macbeth. They don't interact in "Future Tense" (which doesn't really count, for obvious reasons) or "The Reckoning", and while both play major roles in "Hunter's Moon", they never run into each other in that one either.
Did you have any Demona/Elisa confrontations planned for after "Hunter's Moon" (and I can't help but think that the Kiss and its consequences would almost certainly make Demona all the more hostile towards Elisa)?
Greg responds...
Of course.
Melissa writes...
Hey Greg,
This question might sound confusing but I'll try my best to make it comprehensible.
I don't expect you to remember, but you responded to a question (by Charles) on July 30 about Elisa and Goliath's double date. The question was mainly about Elisa's response how Goliath had chosen to take Delilah. You responded by saying "Elisa was pressuring him. She had to live with the consequences of her choice."
So my question is: I always was under the impression that E & G mutally decided to go on this double date. But by the way you responded, it sounded more like Goliath wanted to date Elisa but she rejected the offer. Was this the case? Am I totally off? If you had any input on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Greg responds...
The notion of "dating" doesn't really come naturally to Goliath.
As I've said before, after years of pussy-footing around, we'd have finally made E&G have an actual DISCUSSION about the status of their relationship. Goliath would "allow" Elisa to drive the conversation, but they would BOTH come to the inevitable conclusion that any relationship between them would be impossible. (Of course, they were kidding themselves.)
Elisa would then attempt to proactively prove that they were moving on to a more common sense approach to romance by having both of them date within their species. She would accept a Halloween invitation to go out with either Morgan or Jason. (To this day, I still haven't decided which.) She would pressure Goliath to take Delilah. Delilah is eager, and for obvious reasons, physically attractive to Goliath. But I'd say Goliath was reluctant for equally obvious reasons, but he agreed to appease Elisa. Then we have this whole action story going on, of course too, which I won't get into here.
But anyway, the result is that they both realize that they are meant for each other. They have to apologize to Morgan/Jason & Delilah, with mixed results. And they then have to figure out just what their relationship, now that they know it's inescapable, is going to be.
How's that?
Todd Jensen writes...
This is something that I recently thought of, in light of your comments about maces being a gargoyle's natural enemy. According to what I've read and heard, "maza" is actually Spanish for "mace". While I don't think that that was a consideration in making it Elisa's surname (given that you said that you went for it because you were under the impression that it was a Sioux word for "iron" - but later on found out that it wasn't), I did find it amusing and ironic, and thought that you might be interested in learning this as well.
Greg responds...
I WAS told that "Maza" meant "iron" in Sioux. But now I'm not sure if that information was accurate. Does anyone know if "Maza" means "iron" in any Native American language or dialect?
But yes, the irony is kinda cool. The only one who can break through Goliath's considerable defenses is the woman with the mace. Further proof that the Gargoyles Universe exists, and I'm only tapping into it. And further proof that I screwed up by making the weapon in "Vendettas" a battle axe and not a mace.
Anonymous writes...
HAS ELIZA MAZA EVER BEEN SERIOUSLY INJURIED IN ANY EPISODE OF GARGOYLES, AND IF SO CAN YOU TELL ME IF THEY MADE A COMIC OF THAT PERTICULAR EPISODE AND THE NUMBER OF THAT COMIC IF YOU PLEASE,ALSO IF THERE IS SUCH AN EPISODE DID THEY MAKE A VIDEO OF THAT PERTICULAR EPISODE, AND IF SO IF IT IS AVAILABLE TO BUY THAN YOU
Greg responds...
Elisa was seriously injured in an episode called "Deadly Force" which was at one time available on Video. You'd have to scrounge around to find it now, I think.
I don't think it was ever adapted into the comic.
Frank writes...
Why doesn't Elisa change her clothes?
Greg responds...
She has 102 black t-shirts. She changes three times a day.
Or were you looking for a real world answer? We couldn't afford to redesign her every episode. And the more different looks we gave her, the more we were inviting animation errors.
(No one mentions why Owen seems to wear the same suit every day?)
Maria writes...
You had mentioned that gargoyles don't generally kiss. They use a caress which in some ways for them mimics the kiss. But, considering the fact that Elisa surprised him by kissing him, what would be his reaction later? Would he ask questions about it and she would explain that she kissed him because she loved him? And, would he become curious enough to try kissing her? Would he enjoy it?
I can almost envision a silly face showing that he liked it, kind of like in the scene in Tarzan where Jane kisses an unsuspecting Tarzan. But then, that might not even happen. But it might be cute and inoccent if it did.
Anyway, thanks before hand for replying, and my apologies for some of my earlier more stupid posts. Just curious about that stuff mostly, I guess.
Greg responds...
By the time Elisa kissed him, Goliath had witnessed plenty of kisses. He knows what it means. And after trying it, I'd guess he liked it. If the right person kisses him. Which she did.
shaun writes...
Is there somethimg between Goliath and Elisa,does the rest of the clan know about it?
Greg responds...
Yes.
Yes.
aXvXia writes...
Dear Mr. Weisman,
in 1994, when the gargoyles series came out i was seven, and waaay to little to understand all of it. A few months ago i was flipping thru channels and i heard Keith David's distinctive voice and i got goosebumps as a wave of old memories washed over me. I was hooked....again.
Now for my question about elisa, so you know where to put it:
in 1996, how old was she? i mean, i know her father left home in his village in 1960, so she cant be over thirty-five, and she's got detective status, so she's no younger than 22.
i know you didnt design the character completely, but do you have a better- educated guess than me?
Thanx, and say hi to Erin for me!
Greg responds...
I know her exact age. Unfortunately, that info is at my office and I'm home right now. Please submit the question again.
[Seven in '94. That means you're only 13 now. Man, do I feel ancient.]
Ambrosia writes...
This question might be silly or irrelevant but...
In Eye of the Beholder and The Journey, Elisa (surprise) wears something other than her bomber jacket. My question is... where is her scar from being shot? Does she have one? or is it lower? or was it just too small for the animators to draw?
Greg responds...
It's smallish. And I think it's between her breasts, but I'm not sure.
I'm too much of a gentleman to ask for a peek.
TK writes...
Hello Greg,
ok firsts thank you for answering my questions
and now to the questions
Goliath always tries to tell Elisa how he feels ,right. She always puts her hand on his mouth,to stop him.
Why does she not want to hear it?
and
Why doesn't he just tell her anyway and push her hand aside?
Is it out of respect?
Thanks a ton! Greg!
Greg responds...
1. She generally knows what he's going to say, and she's not ready to deal with that.
2. Yes, respect. And some fear of rejection.
LSZ writes...
If these questions have been asked before, they aren't in the old or new archives, though I'm sure at least the first has been asked before:
1) How long were Goliath, Elisa and Bronx away from New York on the World Tour?
2) What was Elisa's explanation to Chavez and her friends?
3) How many places besides the ones we saw did they go to?
4) Care to name some of the unseen ones?
5) Is there any significance to the carved face on the skiff?
Greg responds...
1. Less than a year, though I haven't made precise calculations. Coincidentally, I plan on making precise calculations within the next three months. Ask me again later.
2. To Chavez, it was "personal time", and not much more. Which didn't sit well with Maria, but Elisa was still one of her best detectives. To Matt she told the truth (and he helped defend Elisa to Maria). What other friends were you referring to.
3. At least one, Tibet. But that's probably it.
4. Tibet.
5. Yes.
Mara "Shinigami" (yay, Japanese! )Cordova writes...
Me again! (heh, and what month is this now, Greg?)
Okay, In Hunter's Moon, when Owen offers the help of his boss to Elisa during that scene in the warehouse and she rebukes him...
When she says "I've had enough help from him to last a lifetime" (paraphrased, ofcourse) what is she referring to?
Her brother's mutation or just the craziness that she's been snared into since the Gargoyles woke up? That line somehow sounds to me like the two (Xanatos and Maza) have a past history pre-Gargoyles. So, do they?
Greg responds...
August. (Which isn't too bad.) Are you the same Mara I met at the con? The one with the orangest hair?
Mostly Derek, but all of the crap he's put her and her friends through.
No past history to speak of.
S writes...
Whoops, heh heh, I'd like to make a correction on question #3 in my Physical Attraction post. What I meant to say was: How could Goliath not see Elisa was physically attractive before "The Mirror?"
Greg responds...
I got that.
S writes...
Hello again, Mr. Weisman. Thank you for answering my "Educating Goliath" questions and not pulling a "Weis-guy" answer on me. Gorebash should rename the Smart-ass Responses to "Weis-guy Responses." I'm saying this in good humor, by the way. Anyways...
PHYSICAL ATTRACTION QUESTIONS:
1.You said: "Absolutely. It's all mixed in there. Protect & Serve, right? There's a chicken and the egg element to what brought the Gargoyles (and Goliath specifically) together with Detective Maza. Kindred Spirits. Physical attraction." There's more, but I'll stop there.
My question is: Who 'exactly' does the "Physical attraction" part refer to? Just Goliath to Elisa and/or vice versa? Which brings me to my next question...
2.How come Elisa shows no evidence of physical attraction to Goliath? I mean, you've heard Goliath being referred to as handsome and everything and he has a nice body(for a cartoon character anyway), but how can Elisa not see that he is 'obviously' attractive? Which, yet again, brings me to another question...
3.How could Goliath not see that Elisa was physically attractive? It doesn't make any sense. Look at Demona, she basically looks humanish. I don't see how it could be that hard for Goliath not to see Elisa as beautiful if he sees Demona that way. He could basically think of her as a gargoyle without the gargoylian features(wings, tail, etc.).
Well, that's about all, and thanks.
Greg responds...
1. It depends "WHEN" you are talking about, but the answer is probably both.
2. You're not paying attention if you think that Elisa showed no evidence.
3. Ah, but that's VERY different, particularly, I think, with guys. If you're socialized to find certain physical traits to be beautiful, including wings and tails, than to see someone without those things, might not light your fire, until you look closer.
Nyrtleka writes...
My Q's about how you mentioned an attempt at a relationship between Delilah and Goliath.
This seems a little bit strange to me. I mean, you've mentioned over and over again that gargs mate for life. I can't see a gargoyle, well, "dating" because they are simply making an attempt at a relationship with someone, instead of really loving that person. If Goliath "dated" Delilah, wouldn't this be against the "Gargoyles mate for life" thing? Or is he just making a last, desperate attempt to break away from Elisa?
Thanks!
Greg responds...
He's humoring Elisa. But not happily.
TK writes...
Hello Again,
First thanks for answerings all of our questions and now the question.
This one just bugs me some so here
Why is Goliath so surprised when Elisa Kisses him/ I mean look at the freeze-frames Gorebash has he looks so suprised or even...well, Idon't know (comments?)
I mean doesn't he want her to kiss him ? or rather doesn't he want to kiss her?
Just thought i would ask
thanks A bunch
Greg responds...
1. He's just caught off guard. Pleased, but, yes, surprised. It's not in character for her. And he didn't yet know what she had just said to Jason.
Garg Chick writes...
Hey Greg ^_^
I'm a huge E&G fan (Elisa and Goliath, but I'm sure you know that o.O) and I was wondering, in absolutely any way, would Goliath and Elisa EVER have kids? *waits for beating* >;)
Greg responds...
Admit it, for a huge E&G fan, you couldn't be bothered to check either the E or G archive and get your answer immediately. Instead you post a question here and wait over a month for a response that I've already posted MANY times before. Right?
Anyway, "kids" plural?
Charles writes...
okay, I have alot of time on my hands and I was just reading the old archives. You said you orignally planned to have goliath go on a double date with elisa with delilah as his date. This seems really weird to me, and I think maybe even it woudl be majorly disconcerting and perverse almost for elisa that goliath would go out with delilah. I guess this is just my knee jerk reaction, but would you explain some of your thoughts on the reactions and thoughts of goliath and elisa on his choice of a date?
Greg responds...
Who else could he choose? Elisa was pressuring him. She had to live with the consequences of her choice. That doesn't mean it isn't weird. But hell, that's half the fun. And it was Halloween.
Faieq Ali writes...
1) In the Gargoyle universe, do soulmates exist?
2) If so, who is Goliath's soulmate, Elisa or Demona? What Goliath and Elisa have is honest, but difficult, whereas Goliath and Demona had a good relationship while it lasted, and if Demona had not betrayed the clan they would have still been together until one or the other perished. Their relationship was more easier, but it was naive and dishonest. So which is better?
Greg responds...
1. What do you think?
2. What do you think?
Tk writes...
One more for today if you don't mind.
Did the gargoyles "Goliath " ever find out about the human Demona vs. Elisa Battle over their lives.
And if so how did they EACH feel
Thanks Bye
Greg responds...
I'm sure they learned the basics, but Elisa isn't the type to brag.
As usual, they are grateful for her loyalty and friendship.
Tk writes...
Do you think because the Way Thailog acts twoards Elisa if she was in trouble and he was there would he save her? Thank you sir
Greg responds...
If he thought he could use her.
(Hypothetical questions make me uncomfortable. Everything is situational.)
Tk writes...
Does Elisa feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around?
Does Goliath feel uncomfortable when Thailog is around when Elisa is around?
EX: In " Double Jeopardy" When Thailog was talking about/to Elisa.
Thanks THats all For Now
Thank YOU
Greg responds...
1. Well, she doesn't feel cudly.
2. He's a villain who could put her at risk. What do you think?
Silver Falcon story memo...
I'm not sure when I'll get around to viewing the next episode of Gargoyles with my family, but I thought I'd get ready to ramble by posting my November, '94 memo to story editor Cary Bates. This was Cary's first Gargoyles script, so he was still new to the characters, which was one of the reasons he started with a single gargoyle story. Just Broadway, Elisa and a little Matt, basically.
You'll notice in what follows that some of the big twists still weren't present at this stage. We just hadn't cracked it fully yet. As I recall, Development Associate Eddie Guzelian suggested making the OLD MAN into Dominic Dracon. I was probably resistant a bit at first, just because of how much work that change would involve. But we all realized that Eddie's idea made the story much, much better. So the change was made...
Anyway, here's the memo, unedited as usual:
WEISMAN 11-7-94
Notes on "The Silver Falcon" Outline...
GENERAL CONCERNS
My main problem is that as a mystery story, this is a bit of a dud. We want to stump our audience, but here, we're cheating to do it. There's no way they could figure out where the diamonds are. We don't show them any options but the red herring. And if we did show them the true location, the answer becomes too obvious, and frankly not tricky enough. There's a silver falcon gargoyle on top of the speakeasy. There's another on top of the building across from Malone's office. We check both. One has it. One doesn't.
We need a double entendre here somewhere. We're looking for a silver falcon, and it turns out to be something that isn't literally that. Or in this case, Malone is being literal -- the jewels are in the silver falcon across from his office. But for most of the episode, we're looking for a more obscure answer, i.e. the speakeasy itself. Best not to have a literal silver falcon gargoyle in the vault at the speakeasy.
Even so, it's pretty straightforward. So let's make the whole situation more mysterious. Let's not learn what Matt was up to quite so fast. Let's not have Elisa be a Mace Malone expert. Let's not learn about the loot at all until act three. Let's misdirect more.
We also need secondary suspects. I suggest the Illuminati. That's the name of the Secret Society that Matt's always going on about. It'll be a huge red herring, if even Matt thought he was investigating the Illuminati, when in truth he stumbled on something considerably more mundane. For us, this would accomplish two goals. One, it misdirects Broadway, Elisa and the audience. Two, it sets us up for a future story where we actually use the Illuminati.
THEME
You get major points here. The theme is partnership, and it's presented clearly. Let's just give it more of an arc. Elisa doesn't have to be thrilled to have Sam Broadway Spade as a partner at first. She learns to appreciate the back-up.
S&P
You need to start thinking about the Audience you're writing for. Vogel's murder in the other premise, was never gonna fly. Likewise, here, a major clue revolving around alcohol consumption is definitely out. I wouldn't be afraid to do a story about alcohol, if we were really going to focus on that issue, but not as a throw away.
BROADWAY
Don't make him or his rookery brothers too young. They can have the occasional childlike response, but don't overdue it. Showing them enjoying a cartoon is one thing. Generalizing that they always are watching cartoons makes them sound like kids. Think of 19 or 20 year old Viet Nam Vets. These guys are warriors.
Also, when he's stone, Broadway is WAY TOO HEAVY for Elisa to budge.
And as flesh, Broadway getting shot is like anybody getting shot. Fatal. Or maybe he'd just bleed to death before sunrise. Even if sunrise were close, without surgery to remove the bullets, he wouldn't heal. Basically, what I'm getting at is that the gargoyles are NOT invulnerable.
DRACON AND GLASSES
Dracon is young and hungry. He's tough, violent, savvy, sarcastic. It's not that he can't get angry, but please resist the temptation to show him throwing temper-tantrums -- ranting (and whining) like a cliché d foiled villain.
He's got money, but he doesn't have the high-tech resources of a Xanatos. We have to be sparing with our use of that stuff. Which does not mean we can have massive gun battles with real bullets. (For S&P reasons.)
And if Dracon is not Xanatos, Glasses is not Owen. Glasses shouldn't quietly clear his throat so that he can feed his boss a plan. It's not that Glasses is stupid, but he's not the brains behind the organization either. He's an aggressive, tough and violent street thug in expensive clothes.
Let's also keep clear on Dracon's motivations and how they differ from Elisa's. He wants the loot, but he doesn't want to have to flee to South America with it. He's crossed the line by kidnapping two cops. He's going to have to kill them.... So he frees Elisa to follow her to the diamonds? Major problems all around. 1) Why does he think Elisa will be able to find them? 2) Why does he think she's even going to try after she's freed her partner? She has no motivation for finding the loot. She's a cop who's out to save her partner and bust the guy who kidnapped them both. (It's not that I don't buy her being curious. But that can wait until after Dracon is in custody.) 3) After she drops Matt off at her place, why don't Dracon's men sneak in and kill the unconscious detective? After all, they can't let him live. What are they waiting for? For him to wake up and come take them out? Etc.
Also, blowing up Matt's apartment is cool, but it has to feel like more of a last resort. Dracon doesn't want to draw any more attention to Matt's disappearance than necessary.
And, please note in your script that Dracon has a white streak in his hair from his previous encounter with the gargoyles.
CHAVEZ & BLUESTONE
Please do not play Maria as a callous boss, who doesn't care that one of her detectives has gone missing for two days. And yes, Matt's into secret society's and the like, but he's not the type to blow off work for two days in a row. Despite Matt's paranoia/hobby, he's a good partner and a good cop, someone that Elisa and Maria can count on.
On the other hand, Matt isn't psychic. He's seen gargoyles at a distance, but he knows nothing about them. Certainly, he has no idea of Elisa's connection to them. There's no way he'd casually decide that a "gargoyle" helped them crack a case. Why would it?
And we must resist the constant temptation to knock Matt out so that he doesn't find out the truth. We don't need it here. So I cut the drugged sleep.
HACKER
Let's change Hacker into a real character that we might want to re-use later. An FBI agent who used to be Matt's partner before Matt was booted out of the bureau for investigating the Illuminati Society. The bureau doesn't officially acknowledge the Illuminati's existence. (All this will be a revelation to Elisa. She didn't know Matt had ever been in the bureau. Her surprise about this will add to the general feeling of mystery in the story.) Matt is persona non grata with the FBI, and Agent Smith (or whatever) can no longer be seen with him, which explains the clandestine meeting.
LIBRARY
For future reference, the library is the other face of the same building that houses the twenty-third police precinct, above which is the clock tower where the gargoyles live. The library is closed at nights, and Goliath often reads down there. But I've cut the library scene, so it doesn't matter here.
BEAT OUTLINE
ACT ONE
1. Make the setting someplace other than a slaughterhouse, but otherwise MATT's kidnapping can play pretty much the way you had it.
2. Two days later at ELISA's place. BROADWAY is there to watch his video of the detective movie, (because Hudson is sick of him playing it over and over again on the tv set at the clock tower). Elisa gets a phone call from CHAVEZ. (Intercut.) Matt took some personal time to investigate Bigfoot or something. But he hasn't checked back in 48 hours, which isn't like him. And there's no answer at his place. Elisa hasn't heard from him either. This isn't good. Elisa's going to check on him on her way to work. Chavez makes Elisa promise to call for back-up if there's any trouble. Elisa says, yeah, sure, whatever.... (But she doesn't really think she needs any help.) Broadway overhears and wants to come along. He'll act as her back-up, her partner until she solves the mystery of the missing Matt. But Elisa's got one partner already. She doesn't need two. She'll handle this alone.
3. Matt's apartment. Elisa's outside Matt's door. She rings bell, knocks, calls for him. What she doesn't know is that the place has already been ransacked and that the ransack-er, a man dressed all in black and wearing a black SKI-MASK, is still inside. Plus another, bigger man in a trench coat and slouch hat (think Ben Grimm) is out on Matt's small terrace/balcony. (We should momentarily think these two men are working together -- the man on the balcony acting as look-out for Mr. Ski-Mask inside, but in reality, Ski-Mask is one of Dracon's men, and the guy on the balcony is Broadway. So in fact, Ski-Mask is unaware of Broadway's presence.) Elisa reaches above the door and finds Matt's spare key on the molding. She does not take out her gun. She is not expecting trouble. But inside, as she unlocks the door, Ski-Mask has his gun out and ready. Which is more than enough justification for Broadway to rip the terrace door right off and reveal himself, in a decidedly monstrous fashion. (NOTE: He does not crash through the glass!!) The clothes he's wearing should increase the scare factor, not make him look silly. By the time Elisa gets the door open, the terrified thug is pushing right past her and high-tailing it down the empty hallway with Broadway (who pauses only to say "Got you covered, partner") in close pursuit.
Ski-Mask makes it to the waiting elevator, and the doors close before Broadway can get to them. But Broadway pulls the elevator doors open and grabs the moving cable, which strains against him, until the elevator stops. Then he leaps down (about a flight) onto the roof of the elevator, shaking it's occupant. He rips open the trap door and yanks the guy up. By the time a stunned Elisa gets to the elevator, she barely misses getting hit by the flying thug whom Broadway has tossed out of the shaft. Ski-Mask crashes into the corridor wall and is temporarily knocked out.
Broadway climbs out of the shaft only to face the wrath of...ELISA. She definitely isn't pleased. But she's not going to fight with Broadway out in the open. They'll discuss things privately, in Matt's apartment. She indicates the thug. "Better bring him too."
Inside Matt's place, Elisa searches the thug, while she verbally chews Broadway out for interfering. She removes the ski-mask, but she doesn't recognize the guy. She does find a page that the thug clearly ripped from Matt's calendar with today's date, a time and a specific location (just saying Central Park isn't enough, it's a big park). Ski-Mask starts to come to just as Broadway suggests checking Matt's computer to see if they can find any info there. The thug panics, tipping Elisa off that the thug had rigged the computer to blow. She tries to stop Broadway from flipping the switch, but it's too late.
Cut to outside Matt's window. There is a brief high-pitch whine, during which Broadway leaps out holding both Elisa and the thug -- and then BOOM!! The force of the explosion propels them across the gap to another lower rooftop. (Broadway can't spread his wings because of his trench coat.) They land hard. Broadway drops both humans and the momentum nearly takes him over the roof. Elisa helps him up, and by the time they turn around, the thug has split.
Now Elisa is really ticked off. But Broadway points out that he did just save her life. Only after creating the dangerous situation in the first place, Elisa reminds him. Broadway's embarrassed, but tenacious. Look, it's obvious that Matt was working alone and got into something way over his head. If Elisa tries to handle this alone, the same thing could happen to her. We get tight on Elisa. What will she decide?
4. Elisa arrives alone at the meeting described on the page from Matt's calendar. She cautiously approaches a man, who turns out to be Matt's ex-partner from the FBI, AGENT SMITH (or whatever). It's tense at first, but once Elisa identifies herself, Agent Smith is very cooperative. Matt's told him that Elisa is all right. A good partner. (Elisa's a little embarrassed.)
So Smith fills her in. As usual, Matt's been trying to prove the existence of the Illuminati Society. He's been investigating a gangster from the 1920's who was rumored to have ties to the Illuminati and vanished mysteriously on March 22, 1924. Matt had found a letter, that he wanted Smith to authenticate. The letter was hand-written on Malone's pre-printed stationary:
MACE MALONE
3150 Third Avenue #45D, New York
March 21, 1924
D.D.,
Our little Society is turning a nice profit.
Everyday I see the Silver Falcon, I smile. You
would too, if you knew what I knew.
Your Senior Partner (and don't you forget it),
Mace
The ink and paper do date from the 20s and the signature checks out too. The letter is legit. But where did Matt get it? Smith doesn't know. What's the Silver Falcon? Smith doesn't know. Who's "D.D."? Smith doesn't know.
Smith isn't happy to hear that Matt is missing. If he can help Elisa in any way.... But Elisa insists she can handle it from here. So Smith takes off. Elisa stands there examining the letter. She seems to be talking to herself. The only real lead it offers is Malone's address, but what good could it be 70 years later.
And Elisa may never find out. Suddenly, we discover that Elisa is surrounded by three BAD GUYS, led by Ski-Mask. It looks bad.
ACT TWO
5. Elisa calls out: "Broadway, NOW!!" And Broadway comes out from wherever he's been hiding and takes out two of the thugs. But Ski-Mask hops into a getaway car that pulls up fast and takes off faster. Elisa handcuffs the two unconscious thugs to something, but she's worried. She doesn't know if the escaped thug heard her talking about Malone's old address. They have to get there before the Illuminati blow it up like they did Matt's apartment. Broadway sweeps her up and they're off.
6. 3150 Third Avenue. 45th floor. Elisa's inside. Broadway watches from the roof. (We need to somehow establish that Elisa and Broadway both might have seen the Falcon-heads across the street -- and yet we need to do it in a way that doesn't immediately tip off our audience. One thing that would help is if the chrome falcons were now literally black with NYC soot and grime.)
There's a light on in 45D. An OLD MAN answers Elisa's knock. He's an accountant, working late. She realizes it's a long shot, but wonders if he knows anything about Mace Malone. Turns out that he's something of a Mace Malone buff. That's why he rented this particular office. He's got Mace's original desk and everything. Here, sit down.
Mace's mysterious disappearance makes him a curiosity, and every once in a while someone stops by and asks questions. Why just the other day, that nice red-headed boy was here. Elisa realizes he's talking about Matt. What did the old man tell Matt? Nothing. He ran out of here, as soon as he saw the picture. What picture? This one. It's an old photograph of Malone and a couple of other men (at least one of which is Dracon's grandfather) in front of a non-descript building. Does the old man know where this was taken? Sure, that's Malone's old speakeasy, the Silver Falcon. He gives Elisa the same lower east side address he had given to Matt, and the same caveat... the Falcon was torn down ages ago, they built something else there. Elisa thanks him as she ushers him out of his own office. It's temporarily unsafe here. She asks him to call Chavez and fill her in on everything he told Elisa and Matt, (and also about the two hand-cuffed thugs). She's heading straight to the lower eastside, as the crow flies, so to speak.
7. Elisa and Broadway arrive at the scene-one location where we last saw Matt. They soon discover GLASSES and his salvage operation. He's clearly digging for something, but what? Matt is there. Tied up and blind-folded. But before they can get near him, Broadway's weight collapses the wooden staircase, and they're discovered. A brief battle ensues. Glasses and his MEN use their semi-hi-tech construction equipment as make-shift weapons. Plus maybe a stick of dynamite or something. There's a cave-in that buries Elisa and Broadway. Glasses turns to Matt and taunts him. So much for the cavalry, Bluestone -- That was your partner. And she's dead.
8. Cut to a small cavity, with-in the cave-in. It's pitch black except for Broadway's glowing eyes. Elisa asks Broadway if he's o.k. He says he is but his voice is clearly straining. As she fumbles for her pocket flashlight, Elisa points out that there can't be much air in here. Will Broadway be able to use his claws to dig them out? Broadway has a couple of problems with that. The main one being that he's starting to feel real tired and that can only mean one thing. What? But Broadway is strangely silent and his eyes stop glowing. Elisa finally clicks on her flashlight and looks. Broadway's frozen in stone.
ACT THREE
9. Outside, the sun has come up on a new day. Inside the cavity, Elisa realizes that when the cave-in occurred, Broadway acted as a living pillar, straining under the weight of a lot of rock and dirt, protecting them both from being buried alive. Now he stands there frozen like a medieval column. There isn't anything she can do but start digging.
10. Out in the main cave, Matt convinces Glasses to try and dig Elisa out. She's probably dead anyway, but she might have Malone's letter. If she does, Glasses' boss can stop looking for it. Glasses isn't dumb. He knows that Matt is simply trying to save his partner, but he can't deny Matt's sound logic regarding the letter, so he sets his men working.
11. Dissolve to a short while later. Glasses' men are getting close to Elisa, who's dug a little of the way out but is running out of air. She can hear them getting close, and she can't let them find Broadway in his vulnerable state. So to protect him, she pulls down one of the rocks above her own little dugout, and allows herself to be buried alive. Fortunately, she's timed it right. Glasses digs her out, but to all appearances, she's lucky to be alive and the guy in the trench coat is still buried under all that rock. She has Malone's letter. So the guy can stay buried.
Finally, DRACON arrives with the Ski-Mask guy from Matt's apartment and the old man from Mace's old office. Ski-Mask got to the old man before he could call Chavez, so there's no help on the way. (And Elisa realizes that the few minutes it would have cost her to call Chavez herself would have been well worth it.)
Dracon's fairly annoyed that Glasses hasn't finished digging through to the vault yet. Glasses explains the delay and produces the letter. But Dracon, shakes his head. We don't have to worry about someone else getting the letter, if we already have the loot. Dig out that vault!!
Loot? Vault? Dracon? What's going on? Matt fills Elisa in. Malone's letter didn't refer to the Illuminati at all, but to a bank robbing syndicate that included both Malone and Dracon's grandfather, Dominic Dracon (aka D.D.). Malone disappeared before he got around to telling Dominic where the loot from all their heists was. But the letter suggests that it might be here at the speakeasy. It wasn't found when the place was demolished decades ago, so Tony is convinced that there must have been an underground vault.
But how did Matt get involved? Matt had found the letter, among the younger Dracon's papers when Dracon was arrested months ago for grand theft. (Dracon's case is still pending. He's out on bail.) Matt investigated on his own, thinking he was on the trail of the Illuminati, and accidentally stumbled on this. Dracon kept him alive, because they wanted to make sure the letter was out of circulation. They didn't want anyone else stumbling on their little operation, before they had the loot. Matt apologizes for not keeping his partner up to speed. He really screwed up by acting alone.
Finally, Glasses hits pay dirt. There is a vault. Soon, they're burning through that. They break through. And inside... nothing. Nothing but a note:
Sorry, D.D.
Guess again.
Mace
Dracon is furious. But Elisa's not surprised. If the loot had been there, Dominic would have found it when he first received the letter seventy years ago. He must have been pretty confident it was here, or he wouldn't have gotten rid of Mace the day he received the letter. Dracon's a bit embarrassed by Elisa's superior powers of deductive reasoning. Embarrassed enough to tell Glasses to "take care of" the three hostages. But Elisa stays their hands by telling them she's figured out where the loot is hidden. Dracon demands to know where. But Elisa's not dumb. If she tells now, then she, Matt and the Old Man are wormfood. She's willing to take Dracon there. But it's pretty public, they'll have to wait until after dark, and we push in on the mound of dirt where Broadway is buried.
12. Let's indicate some passage of time here. The sun sets. Then we return to the underground chamber. No one's there at all. Broadway bursts from the cave in. He's panicked about Elisa. He finds Mace's second note and reads it with great difficulty. Will he figure everything out?
13. In a helicopter above the city, Dracon, Glasses and Ski-Mask are escorting Elisa, Matt and the old man to the roof of the building opposite Malone's old office. Matt whispers a warning: "They'll kill us as soon as you show them where the loot is." But Elisa says, "Don't worry, I've called for back-up. I think."
The building's too old to be equipped with a heli-pad, but Glasses manages to get close enough to allow Dracon and Elisa to jump onto the roof. Once on the roof, Elisa explains that from Malone's desk across the street, you can see these black bird-heads. And sure enough when she wipes the grime of seventy years away, she reveals the silver-like chrome beneath. Dracon probably has to check a couple heads, before finding the little bag of precious jewels that Mace had the bank loot converted to.
Now all Dracon has to do is get rid of his trio of hostages. He invites Elisa to step off the side of the building. And to his surprise she does.
Of course, she did it because she had already spotted Broadway, who catches her. (He didn't know anything about the loot or Dominic Dracon. But Mace's 2nd note invited "D.D." to guess again. The falcons on this building were the only other place Broadway could think of to check out. He's just glad he guessed right and that he was in time.)
Ultimately, Broadway takes out the chopper, without revealing himself to Matt or the old man. With Matt's help, Glasses, Ski-Mask and Dracon are all taken down. (This can all play largely as you had it.)
Matt thanks his partner Elisa for pulling his fat out of the fire.
14. And in the TAG at the clock tower, Elisa thanks her partner Broadway for doing the same.
That's it. Call me if you have any questions.
Chapter XVIII: "The Mirror"
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.
It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]
But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.
On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.
At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)
Family Reactions #1
During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.
Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.
"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.
Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.
Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.
I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?
I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?
Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.
I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.
We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?
Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."
As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.
Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.
Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.
And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.
Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.
Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.
I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....
Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)
Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.
Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]
Ben then asked why she was transformed.
Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.
Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.
KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!
Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.
Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!
But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]
I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."
FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.
Cool little touches:
Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.
She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.
Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.
Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.
Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.
Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.
Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.
FAMILY REACTION #4
Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."
More sappy stuff (which I love):
Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."
Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.
That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.
Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.
Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.
In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.
But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.
I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.
fae Rae writes...
This is probably a stupid question, but I must ask: Why, exactly, does Demona hate Elisa so much?
Okay, so it may be an obvious question. I always thought it was because Elisa is living proof that not all humans would hurt gargoyles, which Demona cannot abide. But I also thought that it was because Goliath had fallen into love with Elisa and out of love with her. My friend Adsobot insists that the latter reason isn't true. What was really intended there?
Greg responds...
All things are true.
Another "Mirror" Memo...
Though I think it's one of our most rewarding episodes, it was a tough one to make come together. So after I received the first draft script on "The Mirror", I sent a second memo to Brynne. Here it is, UNEDITED:
WEISMAN 11-13-94
Notes on "The Mirror" Script...
O.k. The problems here seems to be mostly my fault. I haven't been able to make clear to you guys how I want our characters to react when they've been changed. It's been clear in my head. And for me the logic flows backwards from a scene I want to see where an average-human-pedestrian-who-has-been-turned-into-a-gargoyle sees one of our transformed-into-human-heroes and screams: "Look at that monster!! It's like some kind of horrible... HUMAN!!" The key is that the bystander actually uses the word "HUMAN", and that he says it with the same kind of fear and revulsion that we would normally hear (in a more typical episode) being used for the word "GARGOYLE".
In order to get both the revulsion into the word "Human" and a strongly negative reaction to our heroes' new human appearance, the bystander needs to believe that being a gargoyle is the way it's supposed to be. Therefore when the bystander's appearance was changed his mind-set must have been changed as well.
Working backwards from that goal, how would our main characters react to being changed?
THEIR MINDSET WOULD CHANGE SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THEIR APPEARANCE:
Elisa is the first to be transformed. Thus, ELISA'S REACTION to being changed into A GARGOYLE is the surprising statement:
"Goliath, You've been changed into a gargoyle!"
Reasoning: Goliath &co. were always "the other" to Elisa. But when she was transformed, her mindset changed with her appearance. So she now believes that being a gargoyle is normal. Since, Goliath &co. now look "normal" to her, she figures that they must have been magically changed from being "the other" into being "normal"--i.e. they have been transformed into gargoyles.
[I realize this seems byzantine, but ultimately it'll be the most straightforward reaction on screen, short of having everyone entirely self-aware from the moment they change, (which just isn't as much fun to me). See how it plays out in beat #11. (Also #9, 13, 14 and 21.) If you're still not clear, please don't hesitate to call me.]
TENSION
Despite absurdist moments in this story, we must keep the tension and suspense running high, throughout.
--Don't reveal Elisa's presence at the museum until last possible second. Same with Goliath.
--Don't let Gargoyle's lose track of their objective for more than a line of dialogue here or there.
--Don't let the battle meander from place to place. Keep battle and chase scenes focused and specific.
WHAT THEY'VE BEEN WISHING FOR:
DEMONA'S WISHES
1. Get rid of humans, particularly Elisa.
2. Get rid of Goliath and Co.
3. Stop turning to stone during the day.
GOLIATH & ELISA'S WISH - To be together. (Elisa is slightly more self-aware than Goliath, but neither should specifically wish in dialogue to become the race of the other. It's too on the head.)
TRIO'S WISH - To assimilate.
CLARITY IN SCRIPT
O.K. TO USE: ELISA/GARGOYLE
HUMAN/"GARGOYLES"
GOLIATH/HUMAN
HUDSON/HUMAN
BROOKLYN/HUMAN
BROADWAY/HUMAN
LEXINGTON/HUMAN
OUR HEROES
DON'T USE: HUMAN/GARGOYLES
GARGOYLES/HUMANS
TRIO/HUMANS
Even for me, these were too confusing.
In group scenes, LIST ALL CHARACTERS IF NECESSARY.
BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. Museum.
--Establish two security guards - but don't reveal that one of them is Elisa (or that Goliath is there).
--Demona breaks in and takes out the first guard.
--Second guard turns out to be Elisa, ready and waiting w/Goliath.
--Establish how much Demona hates humans in general, and Elisa specifically.
--Demona never gets as far as laser-grid around mirror.
2. Chase.
--Demona Escapes.
--And while Goliath and Elisa are chasing her...
Maybe inter-cut w/...
3. Museum.
--Thieves get past laser-grid to steal mirror.
4. Ext. Demona's house.
--The two thieves deliver mirror.
5. Int. Demona's house.
--Demona summons Puck.
6. Clock tower.
--Elisa arrives. They were duped. Mirror was stolen.
--Elisa's: So how bad is this? What can D do with that mirror?
--No one knows for sure, but it leads to the discussion of Oberon's Children.
--Refer here to Midsummer Night's Dream.
--Scotsmen called them "Fair Folk".
--Vikings called them "Dark Elves".
--Shape-shifters.
--Trio: Imagine what it would be like to shape-change. Fit in anywhere.
--Hint subtly at Elisa and Goliath's desires.
7. Demona's house.
--Make sure we know Puck's name here.
--Our Demona and Puck wish scene.
--Puck uses a rhyming spell.
--Puck's arms are pinned by chains, so magic energy comes out of his eyes.
8. Clock Tower.
--Elisa: All we can do is wait til Demona makes her move.
--Elisa transforms into a gargoyle.
ACT TWO
9. Clock Tower.
--Everyone including Bronx is pretty stunned by Elisa's change.
--She seems happy though.
-- Elisa: "This is wonderful. Goliath, you've been transformed into a gargoyle!"
--Goliath: "What?!"
10. Demona's House.
--Puck tells her the deed is done.
--Demona wants to escalate. Every human in Manhattan.
--Puck again stresses difficulty of "big wishes".
--Demona yanks chain: "Answer truthfully. Can it be done?"
--Puck: Yes, but not from here.
11. Clock Tower.
--Bronx sniffs at Elisa.
--Goliath: "We've always been gargoyles. You're the one who's been changed."
--Elisa: "I've always been a gargoyle. I think I'd know it if I wasn't."
--Goliath: "How did we first meet?"
--Elisa: "I fell off a skyscraper; you glided down and caught me."
--Goliath: "If you always had wings, why would you need me to catch you."
--Elisa: "I can't glide with these."
--Goliath: "Yes, you can."
--AND OFF THEY GO.
--Hudson and Trio stare at each other for a beat and then follow.
--Bronx is left behind.
12. WORLD TRADE CENTER
--Puck and Demona materialize w/mirror.
--P: This is gonna take a while.
--He begins visually gathering magical energy. Just a little at first.
13. Flight over the city.
--Goliath NEVER LETS GO OF HER HAND, even after it's clear that she's gliding under her own "power", because she's afraid. She doesn't want to lose that contact.
--Goliath can't help staring at her: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you are."
--Elisa: "You mean you used to think I was ugly?"
--He doesn't have a good answer to this.
--Fortunately for him, she segues to: "This is so confusing. Have I always been able to glide like this?"
--[She's still hasn't quite grasped the situation.]
--Goliath: "No. No. Try to understand. You've been changed into a gargoyle. Follow me, I'll show you."
--They glides in low over the streets. Elisa sees the humans and freaks!! (Her freaking needs to be ambiguous. Goliath thinks she understands now. She doesn't really.)
--Goliath: "Maybe we should land somewhere and talk."
14. Rooftop.
--Goliath, Elisa, Hudson and Trio come in for a landing.
--(Establish clothes line. Someone has left their laundry, including bedsheets, to dry in the warm night air.)
--Elisa: "Did you see? Everyone in Manhattan's been turned into a HUMAN?!!!"
--G: "...no, no, no..."
--HUDSON: "LOOK!"
--He points at light show that seems to be gathering around one of the towers of the WTC.
15. World Trade Center.
--BIG LIGHT SHOW as Puck glows with magical energy.
--P: "This is really going to wear me out."
--D: "Quit complaining and do it already."
--Puck casts rhyming spell.
--Magical energy shoots from entire body to hit mirror.
--Spell reflects off mirror and hits giant hyperbolic sattelite dish. --Sattelite dish fires magic off across the whole city.
--Puck collapses.
16. Rooftop.
--Goliath & Co. have seen light show from WTC, (but not result).
--Goliath &Co. leave Elisa on the roof and head toward WTC.
--Elisa's not happy about it, but they don't give her a choice.
--And she's still phobic about flying alone, so she can't follow.
17. WTC
--Now that the light show has subsided, Demona wants to see her "empty city", but Puck is out of it.
--Goliath and co. attack. She's forced to flee with Puck, but without mirror.
--(Somewhere in here, Demona has to mention Puck's name.)
--To save herself, she tosses it. Hudson saves it.
--Goliath and Trio pursue Demona.
18. Downtown streets/subway/ whatever
--Even though she's being chased and is hampered by the unconscious Puck, Demona still comes in for a landing to see the results of her wish.
--She's furious as she sees the human/"gargoyles" going about their business.
--Use this chase (and this scene) to reveal the extent and absurdity of the change that hasn't really changed anything but the appearance of the people. Take us down into the subway, maybe.
--Demona ultimately uses the situation to get lost in a crowd.
--For the pursuers, Goliath and trio, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
--Throughout scene, Trio may get wistful and a little distracted about being able to fit in.
--There are female "Gargoyles" walking by, catching trio's eyes.
--They have to remind themselves that this is wrong. And they're not entirely convinced that it is.
--But other "gargoyles" still shy away from trio because of how they are dressed. (Or how little they are dressed.)
--At any rate, the trio don't totally lose track of their objective: Demona.
--But Demona's gone.
--Goliath: Let's go get Elisa and plan our next move.
19. A deserted alley.
--Demona confronts a very worn-out Puck.
--D: I wanted you to destroy the humans, not give them the gift of being a gargoyle!!
--D: "Change the gargoyles back to humans."
--Puck: "O.K., o.k., give me a chance to catch my breath."
--He leans to look at his reflection in the side-view mirror of a car.
--The image in the mirror wavers.
20. Rooftop.
--Goliath, Hudson, Trio and Elisa confer.
--They have the mirror.
--That was definitely one of Oberon's Children with Demona.
--Demona called him Puck.
--Elisa: In Shakespeare, Puck was a harmless trickster.
--Goliath: What's happened below isn't harmless. Come, we must continue to search for Demona and Puck.
--Elisa: "I'll never get the hang of leaping off rooftops."
--Goliath: "I will always be there to catch you."
--She hesitates. He takes off to set an example.
--A bolt of Magic shoots out of the mirror catching Goliath, Hudson and the trio.
--Goliath changes to human and falls.
ACT THREE
21. Rooftop.
--Elisa dives and catches Goliath. Overcoming her fear without thinking about it.
--Meanwhile, Hudson grabs a sheet off the clothesline and covers the mirror: "Don't want anything else jumping out at us from this thing!"
--Goliath doesn't understand why he fell.
--Suddenly he stares at her: "Elisa...You've changed back to normal!!"
--E: No. I haven't changed. You have. You're a human. You fell because, you don't have wings.
--Brooklyn: "We've always been humans."
--Hudson: "And we've never needed wings to glide before."
--Lex (the engineer of the group): "Wait a minute, we must have used wings. How else could we do it?"
--Goliath, sinking in: "Elisa's right. We're supposed to be gargoyles. And we're not. Everyone else should be human. But thanks to Demona and Puck, they're not."
22. Alley & Street.
--Puck is very weary.
--Demona asks if it's done.
--Puck says yes.
--Demona and Puck cautiously exit alley.
--Obviously, all the humans are still "Gargoyles".
--Demona turns on Puck. I told you to turn the gargoyles to humans.
--Puck: "Oh, you meant these gargoyles! I thought you meant Goliath and the gang. My mistake. Sorry."
--Demona: "You turned Goliath into a human?!!"
--She's ready to murdilate Puck. She pulls the chain tighter, crushing him.
--Puck: "Hey, hey, hey, You're missing the big picture, here. This is your big chance to get rid of Goliath. Now, while he's weak as any human."
--She stops, smiles.
--Dissolve.
23. Rockefeller Center. Some time later.
--Bronx runs into shot. [He has not been transformed yet.]
--A human/ "gargoyle" pedestrian bends over to pet the nice doggie and then runs away screaming when he sees the doggie's masters.
--Our "human" heroes now fully clothed (and looking cool) walk with determination right up to the center of Rockefeller Center. Hudson still has the mirror, covered in the bed sheet.
--(Elisa is not in sight.)
--Everywhere, pedestrian/"gargoyles" run screaming: "Ahhh, humans!! Run!!" "Oh, they're so ugly." "Keep away, you...you monster human, you."
--Hudson to Goliath: Are you sure this is a good idea?
--G: Demona must have done all this for a purpose. What else could it be except to leave us vulnerable to her attack. So we'll let her come to us, but we'll pick the place of battle. Here on the ground and in the open where her wings won't help her much.
--They take their stand. Not all the pedestrians have run. Some stop and stare, but they all keep their distance from these human monsters.
--Goliath instructs Hudson to unwrap the mirror.
--The instant he does, Puck and Demona fly out of it.
--BATTLE ROYALE (Needs real choreography.)
--Demona's armed with her plasma rifle.
--Gargoyle's are armed with medieval weapons.
--Battle is largely land bound.
--Puck's having a good time and helps Demona.
--His stunts can be darkly funny, i.e. they can be absurd, as long as they increase the danger to our heroes.
--Puck turns Bronx into a Russian Wolf-hound, just for fun.
--Some brave bystanders see Demona being attacked by all these monsters and run in to help.
--Trio are forced to battle them.
--These human/ "gargoyles" don't know their own strength, so fighting them isn't easy.
--Obviously at some crucial moment, Elisa (their secret weapon) flies in and takes on D.
--Demona should not instantly recognize Elisa.
--But when Demona does, she goes nuts. Elisa's presence (both the fact that she is alive and a gargoyle) is a double-edged sword. The best (psychological) weapon the good guys have, it throws Demona into a rage, which makes her doubly dangerous, but careless.
--Goliath and Elisa stand together to defeat D.
--Trio take on and scare off the "gargoyle" good samaritans.
--With Bronx's help, Hudson bags Puck with metal-mesh trashcan.
24. WTC
--Goliath promises to free Puck if he changes things back to normal.
--Puck complies. He'll start with the biggest job -- getting all the humans back to normal. (Fortunately, changing something back to its normal state is easier for him than the reverse.)
--Using rhyming spell, mirror and sattelite dish, Puck lets the magic fly.
--Elisa is human again.
--Puck needs a moment to recover.
--Elisa and Goliath have a brief moment.
--Elisa (self-depricating): "Well, I guess I'm back to my old ugly human self."
--G: "Never, to these eyes. But I'm curious. Am I handsome to you like this?"
--E: "You've always been handsome to me."
--PUCK: "Allright, enough of the mushy stuff!"
--He zaps Goliath, Hud, Bronx and Trio back into Gargoyles. (Note: he doesn't need the mirror, since they're all standing right in front of him.)
--Goliath frees Puck.
--Puck takes off with Demona through Mirror, taking mirror with.
25. Demona's house.
--Puck's grateful for a good time, enjoyed by all.
--He'll grant Demona her original wish: She won't turn to stone during the day.
--She's suspicious, for obvious reasons.
--He must SPELL OUT that she will still be her normal GARGOYLE self at night. But during the day, she won't have to sleep as stone.
--One last little rhyme spell.
--And he disappears through mirror.
26. Clock Tower.
--Final scene with Bronx, Hud, Trio, Goliath and Elisa. (This was really nice, as written.)
27. Demona's House.
--The sun is rising.
--We can only see Demona in sillouette.
--Until she turns to look at herself in the mirror.
--Which she smashes.
PAGE NOTES
(The script I received had some odd page numbering. The title page was numbered as page one, some pages were skipped and had no numbers, and the last page was numbered 33. So I just renumbered it from the first page of script on through the last [39]. The following notes therefore refer to my numbers. Call me if you have any questions.)
P.2
If Demona never gets the opportunity to destroy or turn off the laser-grid around the mirror, than we can leave it for the thieves to deal with and ditch all this dialogue and action revolving around alarms. Demona's meant to be a diversion.
Please don't refer to the Security Guard as Sarge or Old Soldier. I know it's just character stuff, but we don't have the space to give it context. It winds up confusing us as to who the guard really is.
Remember: Male gargoyle eyes glow white. Only female gargoyle eyes glow red.
Throughout script we use both "rooklings" and "hatchlings". I prefer "hatchlings". That way audience members who have missed the one or two references to the rookery, will still understand.
P.5
Goliath's getting wounded is problematic. We don't deal with it in the story. It's quickly forgotten. We don't want to play fast and loose with something like that.
P.9
Don't forget to give us some description of Puck. (He definitely should have pointed ears, for example. I added pointed ears to the description of the Weird Sisters in their true form.)
P.10
I don't know that we want to refer to all of Oberon's Children as "real mean". Seems blatantly racist.
When Demona summoned Puck earlier, she did it in Latin. So please make sure we name him here in this scene.
P.12
DEMONA
If you cannot rid me of all humans,
then at least rid me of that human --
Elisa Maza!
We need the double entendre of Demona asking Puck to get rid of that
human-Elisa. ("Oh," Puck weasles to himself, "get rid of the human-Elisa. Make her a gargoyle-Elisa instead.")
P.21
Our Gargoyles shouldn't notice that anything has changed among the pedestrians below, until they get close enough to see. (From a practical standpoint, the idea of each person suddenly taking up more room, might be tough to get across in animation.)
Let's show at least one of the Human/"Gargoyles" looking at his or her reflection (in a store window or something) and preening. Totally unaware of the change.
Goliath says, "What sorcery is this?" twice in the episode. Let's skip both. He said this exact line in "Awakening".
P.23
Keep focus and imperative of THIS story. No one has time to stop for hot dogs or to deal with vandals. (So skip both incidents.)
P.25
Puck doesn't have to pretend that he did "exactly" as Demona commanded. He can have more attitude. "Hey, close enough." or "If you're going to split hairs..."
Again, let's not make Hudson an expert on Puck as an individual. We don't need him to identify Puck from tapestries. (And I doubt if his education has progressed to the point where he's read Shakespeare.) Plus, I'm not sure we have to label Puck as the "worst" of Oberon's children, either.
P.34
Gargoyles including Elisa/gargoyle CANNOT hover.
Also don't forget...
--Cast List.
--Latin version of Demona's spell from Grimorum. (It doesn't have to rhyme.)
--Rhyming spell in English for what Puck does to everyone. (Needs to be vague enough so that Demona isn't immediately tipped off.) Doesn't need to be same spell each time.
--Somewhere in here, we need to justify why none of the human/"gargoyle" crowd reacts to Puck. Do they see him as a gargoyle, ala the Weird Sisters? Or is he invisible to them? Or can we get away with them just walking by and ignoring him?
--Make sure final page count will be within our page range (pp. 35-39) after Denise has conformed it.
THANKS. DON'T HESITATE TO CALL WITH ANY QUESTIONS.
"THE MIRROR" Outline memo...
Next up for my Ramblings is "The Mirror". What follows is the UNEDITED memo I sent to story editor Brynne Chandler Reaves regarding the first draft outline for that episode.
This is one I had very specific ideas on, so I may have been even tougher than usual. Oh, well...
WEISMAN 10-30-94
Notes on "The Mirror" Outline...
Brynne, I hope you consider this flattering: I'm gonna be very tough on you here, because I think you can handle it. It's not just because of this outline, but because in general, I want you to be handing me cleaner, more finished pieces. Although the story is full of great ideas, there are logical and structural problems here that need fixing. As I've discussed, I want to be less "hands-on" so that the schedule keeps flowing and we all stay sane, but that means I need you to catch much more of this sort of thing before I ever see it.
One particular concern of mine (and not so incidentally of Gary Krisel's) is padded first acts, where nothing of substance happens until the cliffhanger. Each story dictates its own structure, so I don't want to make any hard and fast rules, but this is one thing you should be thinking about on every episode you edit or write. We can have a prologue scene or two. But we don't want to turn the whole first act into a prologue to events that only begin seconds before the commercial break.
Scene One is a nice prologue. So is Two, if it's brief. Three, Four and Five are padding. Six is good prologue, but by this time it feels like padding. Seven is problematic from a character/logic standpoint. Finally, we get going at Eight.
And opening acts aside, we need to beware of scenes that serve no function in the structure of the story. A real good character moment is worth a detour on occasion. But our stories have to be coming out of character anyway, so nine times out of ten, the detour shouldn't be necessary.
Ever since "Reawakening" we've tried to make the Gargoyles much more pro-active. But even by first season "survival-mode" standards they seem downright slow to act here. In scene Three, they suspect magical bad news is on the way. In scene Six, they confirm Demona's involvement. Yet in scene Ten, they go to the play in the park like nothing was wrong. Worse, in scene Sixteen, when the humans are transformed, the younger gargoyles actually think that the transformation is part of the play? They're more sophisticated than that. And instead of reacting like it's a problem, they just want "contact with their kind". I wouldn't mind a wistful line that summoned up their feelings about how this reminds them of their old lives when there were many gargoyles and/or that it's nice to be able to walk out in the open without everyone running away screaming, but they have to realize that this transformation is bad news. Then in scene TWENTY-TWO (that's the beginning of ACT THREE and a full fourteen scenes after Goliath battled Demona in the museum) they "are certain now that Demona is behind this". Who did they think was behind it for the last act and a half? This is a good sign that we're either short on structure, heavy on padding or both.
THEME
We must have a clear theme that involves at least one of the "good" gargoyles in every episode. We shouldn't have to dig deep for it. It's what focuses the events that dictate our structure. Today's theme is "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it." It applies to Demona, obviously. But it applies to subconscious desires on the part of Goliath. And wistful, but conscious desires on the part of Elisa. And even (to a small extent) the desire of our young trio to assimilate. Emphasize the theme as much as possible.
GARGOYLES AND MAGIC
Please remember that the gargoyles are largely ignorant of the workings of magic. They have an advantage over humans in that they know magic exists. That's about it. Demona and Macbeth have had centuries to study it. Guys like the Magus and the Archmage dedicated their lives to studying it. Brooklyn, on the other hand, is no expert. I doubt he can even read Latin. And the GRIMORUM is not a textbook that would provide easy answers even if he could read it. It is, in essence, a cookbook. If a recipe is torn out, there's no way to infer very much about it from the remaining pages. Remember, the Magus had the sleep spell he used on the gargoyles, and even with that and all his training, he couldn't wake them up without the specific page that held the counterspell. HOW could Brooklyn find a list (scene 5) that matches Demona's list? WHY would the Grimorum list the items for one specific spell twice? HOW could he know the name (Scene Eight) of the entity being summoned?
Could the Grimorum tell them that Puck's spells must be reversed before dawn? Or how Puck frees himself? Unlikely. (Would Julia Child's cookbook feature recipes by the Frugal Gourmet?) But (if we assume Goliath reads Latin, and could make heads or tails of the Grimorum, without having to sit down and spend an entire week reading the thing cover-to-cover to find a helpful passage in a book which, as you noted, has no index) -- it is possible. We always skate by a few things in every script. But the more we have to skate, the thinner the ice in general. Something that normally would fit neatly beneath our audiences suspension of disbelief, becomes one more contrivance in a story that's got a few too many.
DEMONA'S MOTIVATIONS
First off, she's not looking for an equal partner or ally. She's made that clear enough. That's exactly her problem with Xanatos. He always wants to know what's in it for him. He can't be easily controlled. He's fine if they have a mutual interest (resurrecting Goliath or Coldstone), fine if she can con him into helping her (as she does in "City of Stone"), but the latter isn't easy. Otherwise, they can't work together. They're goals are too diverse.
As for Macbeth, don't even bring him up. This story airs before CITY OF STONE. She hasn't seen Macbeth for decades probably. And it's been centuries since they worked together on anything.
None of this changes the story, but it's important to get her mind-set clear. She isn't summoning Puck as an ally. But as a slave.
And what does she want her slave to do? Basically, this episode is going to underline Demona's truly short-term thinking. She knows she wants humanity eradicated. But not what she'd do if she ever accomplished that goal. She's closed her heart to anything that doesn't serve her immediate short-term plans. (She's really, really screwed up.) At one point, Puck should offer her Goliath. He can make Goliath love her again. But she's so distracted by her hatred for Elisa in particular and humans in general, that she can't keep a positive thought in her head. Her monolithic and myopic fanaticism allow Puck to make a primate out of her, literally and figuratively.
PUCK
First big note from Adrienne and ME: we cannot play this character like he's a demon. His summoning in particular came off as very satanic. Let's try to make it more fanciful and magical. One thing that would help avoid this problem, is to be clear about what Puck is. If we aren't clear, people might think demon or devil. If we are clear, they'll believe us. We've got to establish, not only Puck, but his entire magical race. They are the third sentient group that once populated our planet in addition to humans and gargoyles. We need a name for this race that we can be comfortable with. (We can say at some point that the Scots called them the Fair Folk; the Vikings called them Dark Elves. But neither name is great. There must be something that could work for us. "The Oberati" perhaps, after their king?)
Then we need to set some rules and limits. Particularly given what we know about the Weird Sisters (and about Puck's secret identity). Obviously, not all of these rules need to be spelled out in this script. But let's make sure we know them. Let's begin by saying that the Oberati can all shape-shift. But when they morph into a form, they're stuck with that form's limitations. No magic happening if they pose as human.
In their true forms, they have a lot of magic power, but a rule against the direct use of it in the world of man (witness the Weird Sisters more indirect manipulations). Maybe this is a command from Oberon which they are afraid, but not unable, to break.
An obvious exception to the rule occurs when they are enslaved by someone else who commands them to use their magic. They are off the hook responsibility-wise, so they can go to town. Thus, most cultures have wish-granting legends about Leprechauns or Djinn or whatever.
Conveniently, the Oberati are creatures of pure magical energy. When they cast a spell, the spell doesn't have the limitations imposed on the studied magic of human or gargoyle sorcerers. The subjects of their spells don't have to see and hear them to be affected. It's a more fluid, less structured form of magic. Magic to the Archmage is an art, craft or science to master. Magic to Puck is as natural (or super-natural) as breathing.
But even Puck must have his limits. Even magical energy should be finite. We MUST establish this fact, at least. If Demona asks to get rid of all the humans on the planet, Puck will have to admit that it's too much for him. Would she settle for all the humans on the island?
Did the Gargoyles meet or hear of Puck specifically, back in the tenth century? I doubt it. They lived fairly isolated lives out at Wyvern. And Puck didn't get famous until Shakespeare made him famous quite a few centuries later. Maybe they've heard stories about the Fair Folk, but again, let's resist the temptation to make Goliath or Brooklyn or Hudson experts on the subject. They seem pretty perplexed by the Weird Sisters in "City of Stone". That should define their reaction to Puck, whom they're meeting here prior to that story.
Why does Puck help Goliath turn stuff back to normal at the end? Well, for this episode's purposes, it'll probably work that Goliath holds the chain and issues a command. But Demona held the chain, and Puck always found a way to circumvent her commands. So why doesn't he do the same to Goliath? Two reasons, probably. First, it further annoys Demona, who he's peeved at for enslaving him in the first place. Second, once Puck is free, he can return to his secret identity, where he's been having such a good time. He wants things back to normal himself. Still in future appearances, we need to be sure that Puck doesn't turn into a personification of Deus ex machina.
Use it sparingly, but it's o.k. with me if Puck breaks the third wall and addresses the audience on occasion.
Finally, Puck's name. The Disney execs are of two minds on this. Bruce prefers Goodfellow. His main concern is the constant policing we'd have to do to make sure Puck doesn't ever come out Fuck. Ellen feels that Goodfellow has more association with Satan than Puck does and that Puck is safer on that level. I'm really torn. I tend to agree that Puck is a slightly more recognizable Shakespearean reference than Goodfellow, and thus stonger and safer. I also think the name suits the character. On the other hand, I think Goodfellow is an effectively ironic name for a character who is, for all intents and purposes, a villain. Part of me really wants to use both. Could the spell that enslaves Puck to Demona have something to do with her knowing his true name, Robin Goodfellow? Adrienne, I think, is on the fence with me. But I'm not sure. We should probably discuss this one last time before you go to script.
THE MIRROR
Think of the Wicked Queen's Magic Mirror times ten. It is a window, a doorway, a Peeping Tom.
HUMANS AS "GARGOYLES"
As we discussed, I don't think the humans notice they've been transformed. Some of the ridiculous fun of this episode should be to see them, walking around, going about their normal business, briefcases and subway tokens in hand, with no indication that anything is different. If they looked in a mirror, they'd preen as usual. They wouldn't freak out or recognize the change.
Although they have wings, I don't think it occurs to any of them to start gliding around the city. And if they see (the soon-to-be more self-aware) Elisa flying, it would be shocking: "Look, Mommy, that lady is flying!!" It's not that they'd see her suddenly as a gargoyle. (It'd be like seeing Superman. A normal enough looking person. He just happens to be leaping tall buildings with a single bound, which is, of course, unusual enough.)
When Goliath and clan walk among them as gargoyles, I don't think they see them as unusual. For once, looking like a gargoyle is normal. Like Halloween, in "Eye of the Beholder", it's another rare moment for our guys when they can be out in the open. (This may have been what you had in mind in scene 18. I wasn't clear.)
However, when Goliath and company enter their midst as "Humans", it should scare them. Once again, ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, and the "human" Goliath is still the monster. We should not skip this beat (as you planned to in scene 24). We should play it. It can be bitter, poignant and, yes, funny. (Appealing to Puck's dark sense of humor (and mine too, for that matter).)
ELISA AS A "GARGOYLE"
Like the other transformed humans, Elisa doesn't immediately realize she's been transformed. And looking in the mirror won't clue her in either. (And in any case, Elisa isn't the type to faint dead away.) In fact, she might turn to Goliath and suddenly ask, "Could you remind me why you guys are hiding up here in the clock tower?" Suddenly, they don't look so strange to her. Goliath is going to have to sit her down and talk her through the differences between humans and gargoyles. Her realization should play like a fog lifting.
And we probably should play out Goliath and Elisa both as gargoyles for an act. Maybe he teaches her how to fly. Maybe they're just about to get close enough to do the gargoyle equivalent of an embrace, when he's transformed to human. Get it so that we can all almost taste it. Then yank it away. (I know, I'm a cruel bastard.)
I also want to contrast Goliath's reaction to "gargoyle" Elisa with Elisa's reaction to "human" Goliath. He may say, "Elisa, I never realized how beautiful you are," because he always liked her for her inner beauty but, frankly, never found her physically attractive (no wings, no tail--shudder). And he's always made that mental distinction between the surface and what lies beneath.
Elisa never did. She recognized his inner beauty in episode three or four and ALWAYS thought he was handsome. Even before this episode, I think she's thought about the two of them and come to the inescapable conclusion that romance is impractical. Better keep it platonic. I think he's had those feelings, but has never connected to them mentally. (Look, no matter what the species, or how evolved the individual, he's still a guy. And guys are fundamentally stupid about this stuff.) Until this episode, it never crossed his mind that Elisa could replace Demona in his heart. The fact is she already has. But he never thought about it before now.
OUR GARGOYLES AS "HUMANS"
To be consistent, they shouldn't recognize the change until Elisa points it out to them. Maybe they were about to leap from the clock tower, and Elisa has to stop them and say: "Look, guys, you don't have wings anymore!"
But let's keep in mind that these guys are still heroes. NO WAY are they going to agree to step back because a gargoyle Demona is too tough for them now. Did Elisa ever step back when she was human? For that matter, there have been plenty of humans willing to go toe-to-toe with the gargoyles. Certainly Goliath is as brave as Macbeth or Wolf or Commando #3.
Also, I got confused in scene 29. Goliath has been transformed to human. That means human proportions. Sure, he'd be a big guy, but not as big as he was as a gargoyle. I don't know why armor would fit, say Broadway, and not him.
TONE
In contrast to our typical episodes, I think this one can have a more absurdist tone. Puck should both further the tone with his actions and undercut it with wry asides. Plus there'll be romantic stuff, also undercut, this time by Goliath's reaction to Elisa and the genuine frustration that comes from the situation's mutability.
GOLIATH BLAMES XANATOS...
For everything, it seems. In "Lighthouse" and to a lesser extent in "Leader", we've played the beat of Goliath mistakenly going to the castle to confront Xanatos for something that the latter had nothing to do with. I think by now, Goliath has learned his lesson. Particularly since the going's on here smack much more of Demona or Macbeth than Xanatos.
DEMONA'S HOME BASE
Let's get a clear sense of what this place is like. Particularly, how it is distinct from Macbeth's mansion: we've played his place like Wayne Manor. Dracon has the penthouse at the Park Manor Hotel. And Xanatos has this incredibly cool castle-on-a-skyscraper H.Q. Demona's home needs to be different from all of these and special in its own right. Also give us an at least approximate idea of where this thing is located. Gramercy Park, maybe?
SHAKESPEARE IN THE PARK
This was a great way to ground our Puck in Shakespeare, as opposed to Satan. No doubt about it. And no fault of yours, but I want to save this setting for a story that Michael and I have discussed involving Macbeth and an adaptation of Shakespeare's Macbeth. Plus, in this story, I want to play with Manhattan life going on, business as usual, despite the fact that everyone's been turned into a gargoyle. We can't do that if we limit ourselves to the Park and the closed Museum. I want to get this story out in the open. Have the "gargoyle" humans reacting in panic to the "human" Goliath and clan, the way they'd normally react to them as gargoyles. That's an opportunity we won't get in another story. We must take advantage of it. But having taken the story out of the park, we should work other Midsummer references into the script. Name the mirror after Oberon or Titania, perhaps.
BEAT SHEET
ACT ONE
1. A warm Midsummer's Night. Demona arrives at the museum with grand theft in mind. She's come to steal the Mirror of Oberon (or whatever we ultimately call it) which has just arrived from Ireland (or Italy or wherever). The first museum security guard is no problem. But the second security guard turns out to be Elisa -- undercover, prepared and not without back-up, i.e. Goliath. They suspected that the mirror would be a prize too tempting for Demona to resist. Demona seems particularly furious over Goliath's continued "partnership" with Elisa. SHE HATES HUMANS AND SHE REALLY HATES ELISA!! (Demona knows how Goliath feels about Elisa, even if the big lug hasn't admitted it to himself yet.)
2. Anyway, we get a big action sequence in the museum which leads to a chase outside. Demona gets away from them, but without the mirror. And because our heroes are so thoroughly engaged in these activities...
3. ...They are absent when two high-tech but very human cat burglars show up at the museum, seconds later, to crate up and steal the mirror. (The real security guard is still unconscious and thus unable to do anything about them.)
4. The two thieves arrive at Demona's townhouse (or whatever) with the crated mirror. Otherwise, the scene plays pretty much as you had it with the delivery men.
5. Inside her home, Demona wraps thick iron chains across the glass of the stolen Mirror. She summons Puck. He comes flying out through the glass and thus winds up wrapped in the iron chains. He spends almost the entire episode with the chains pinning his arms across his chest.
6. Back at the clock tower, Goliath and Elisa are feeling like grade-A dorks. Elisa's just back from investigating the museum crime scene. It's now clear that Demona's job was to take out security and, if necessary, act as a diversion for the real thieves. Now the big questions are, what can she do with this mirror and how bad is this going to get? Perhaps this is a place to discuss the Oberati. Hudson tells what little he knows about them.
7. Our Demona and Puck scene. If he ever wants his freedom he must serve her. He tries to discourage her: he'd make a lousy servant. She doesn't buy that. Puck works for "him". He can work for her, etc. (That whole exchange.) O.K., okay, what does she want? Freedom from her one great vulnerability -- turning to stone during the day. What good is that, he wonders. You think you're gonna be able to walk down 5th Avenue in broad daylight? I can if you obliterate all humans, everywhere. What am I, the Genie of the lamp? There are limits, kiddo. C'mon, what do you really want? She pauses, and an image appears in the mirror. It is Goliath (in the clock tower, but we're tight on him, so we aren't tipping the location). Puck: "How quaint, after all these centuries, you're still carrying a torch. Well, if that's what you want, I can make him love you again. Although it will be really hard, because you're not exactly Miss Lovable." And then, in the mirror, Elisa steps into the shot, and puts a hand on Goliath's shoulder. Demona goes ballistic. She knows her heart's true desire. Get rid of the human -- Elisa Maza. Puck: "That I can do." He fires a magical bolt into the mirror at the image of Elisa.
8. Back at the tower, Elisa has a hand on Goliath's shoulder, reassuring him that they'll stop Demona's scheme, whatever it is. Suddenly, she is surrounded by a magical energy that rips her away from Goliath. The gargoyles try to help her, but they can't get close. We should think for a moment that this is the end of Rico... uh, Elisa. And then there is a blinding flash of light that whites out the whole screen. Followed by pitch black darkness. Elisa is still there. We see her silhouette as our eyes adjust and the light returns slowly to normal. She says she's o.k. And then she steps into the light. Transformed into a gargoyle version of herself.
END OF ACT ONE
Now I have to apologize. I know I promised you this for Monday. It's two a.m. Sunday and this is as far as I got. There's a reason (an excuse). Monday is Corporate Seminar. And my last act as an executive (before becoming a full-time producer on Tuesday) is to pitch all our new development to Michael Eisner and Rich Frank. This is a twice yearly event that requires a lot of preparation, and I just ran out of time to get these notes done. Normally, I'd pull an all-nighter, but I need some sleep to face these guys tomorrow.
You gotta admit, that was a pretty good excuse.
So I have to leave this to you. You're mission, if you chose to accept it, (AND YOU REALLY HAVE NO CHOICE IF YOU EVER WANT TO GET TO SCRIPT) is to write up a quick beat outline of acts two and three for me based on the sketchy notes below. It doesn't have to be long. Two to four pages is fine. The amount of detail that I gave you for Act One is all I'm looking for.
Act Two should have Goliath filling Elisa in about the change she's undergone. Maybe take her flying. Maybe this is where we get the line about him never realizing how beautiful she was.
Demona should be temporarily fooled into thinking Elisa's dead, and flushed with success, she asks Puck to rid all of Manhattan of its humans. Bing, bang, boom. Everyone's a gargoyle. People on the subway in from Queens, change into gargoyles as soon as the E-train hits the first Manhattan stop. "Gargoyles" on the way home to Jersey change back to human as they cross the bridge in their cars. NO ONE NOTICES AT ALL.
But Demona doesn't know any of this yet. She wants a tour of what she expects to be an empty city. Puck is secretly eager to see his handiwork, so they step into the mirror, which transports them to the heart of the city. Times Square, maybe? 5th Avenue?
Meanwhile, Hudson, Goliath, Elisa and the trio are all hunting for Demona. They quickly notice the change in the populace. (Maybe the shock of this wide-spread change interrupts what might have been the only chance Elisa and Goliath had for a same-species clinch.) They all know it's bad news, but the trio can't help enjoying the ability to walk among gargoyles again. Even if they are gargoyles in business suits: New Yorkers who still won't give them the time of day. Still, would it be so bad if this didn't get fixed? Yeah. Probably.
When Demona figures out she's been duped, she demands that the gargoyles be changed back to humans. Bing Bang Boom. Goliath, Hudson and the Trio are human. (I'm torn about Bronx. I guess the big dog is o.k. It just seems outside the terms of Demona's request, even by Puck's loose standards.)
Was Goliath flying at the time or is this another interrupted clinch between him and Elisa?
Act Three opens with Elisa saving Goliath from plummeting to his death perhaps. Then she has to make him understand that he has been transformed as well.
We wind up with a very public battle featuring Elisa and our Newly Human heroes against Demona and Puck. It's complicated by the fact that the general populace (who are all now Gargoyles) perceive the human Goliath, Hudson and Trio (and Bronx?) as monsters attacking what to them seems to be a very normal-looking Demona.
Still in the end, good triumphs. Puck makes everything right at Goliath's command, (but let's make it clear that at least in part, he's doing this to spite Demona and/or to suit his own agenda). Elisa is changed to human, before Goliath is changed back, and we have another near-clinch, that Puck interrupts with good-humored spite by changing Goliath back into a gargoyle.
Goliath frees Puck and he vanishes with Demona, rescuing her from Goliath.
Turns out Puck had more fun than he thought he would so he feels like he owes Demona a favor. He'll give her her original wish. No turning to stone during the day. (BUT WE NEED TO MAKE IT PAINFULLY CLEAR THAT SHE WILL STILL BE HER NORMAL GARGOYLE SELF AT NIGHT.) He takes his leave via the mirror.
Cut back to Elisa and Goliath for emotional wrap up. Just before the sunrise which, as usual, separates them.
And back to Demona. Silhouetted against the rising sun. It's up, and she's not stone. Puck kept his word, she can't believe it. Then she sees her human self in the mirror, which she smashes, yelling NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! And fade to black.
Zuppstein Luvir Manoruvver writes...
Hiyah, I'm Zupp! I love Gargoyles sooooo much, and they simply kick. They're way to good for Toon Disney!
My Q's are on relationships in GARGOYLES:
1) Why did you give Angela to Broadway? I don't wanna like offend you or something, but she'd be so much better as Brooklyn's. They look a heck of a lot better together than Angela and Broadway.
2) In teh avalon episodes, especially when Angela leaves for the first time, she and Gabriel were always together. Gabriel at least acted like he was in love with her. But you said that Gabriel was going with Ophelia. Was there ever anything with Angela and Gabriel?
3. The Goliath/Elisa relationship rocks! I love how you got rid of a gap between 2 species with it. But will they ever have a future together?
Thanx!
Greg responds...
1. I didn't "give" Angela to Broadway. As she herself said, she's not a prize to be won by OR gifted to anyone. As for a direct answer to your question, sorry, but I'm tired of answering this one. If you'd bothered to check the Angela or the Trio archive to this site you would have seen that this question has been asked and answered many times. I don't want to offend YOU, but if you think she'd be better off with Brooklyn, then I think you weren't paying very close attention.
2. Again, no. Check the archives for a more complete answer. But Angela and Gabriel had a much more fraternal relationship. Think of them as fraternal twin siblings. They were very close. But it was brother/sister affection -- never romance.
3. Yes.
(Zupp, I'm sorry if this response seems harsh. But I've got a ton of questions to go through, and it's a little tough when the questioner doesn't bother to check the specific archive for his question first.)
Todd Jensen writes...
In your opinion, did Elisa's close friendship with the gargoyles have anything to do with her strong belief in her police duty of protecting her city? As in, sharing the clan's belief of the importance of protection, a sort of "kindred spirits" matter?
Greg responds...
Absolutely. It's all mixed in there. Protect & Serve, right? There's a chicken and the egg element to what brought the Gargoyles (and Goliath specifically) together with Detective Maza. Kindred Spirits. Physical attraction. Emotional connections. And I'm literally willing to throw in the concepts of FATE and DESTINY as well.
Maria Destine writes...
Hello again, Greg!!
It's later now! ^_^
I'm not sure how this can be answered, but it's kind of a 'what if scenerio'. What if Goliath and Elisa had been able to have a child naturally? What if they did decide for it? What would happen to make it possible?
You've mentioned before that neither of them would be comfortable going for either science or sorcery. But wht if they decided they wanted a child badly enough? Would they choose science or sorcery? Also, would Goliath become human for Elisa? Or would Elisa become a gargoyle for Goliath?
This probably can't be answered either way, but I thought I'ld ask. I was more curious of what 'could possibly' happen. They're my fav characters. I'm sure they wouldv'e lived happy lives regardless, but I was just curious if something like the above might make life easier for them. Then again, it might make life more difficult. Even for the child if it should be half and half. I mean, someone pointed out that not everyone may accept him/her. Or, he/she would feel like an outcast. And so, that sort of brings another question to mind; How would their 'possible' joining effect their child later in the future?
Thanks again. :)
Greg responds...
Not being who you are, who you FUNDAMENTALLY are, even if it's for someone you love beyond measure, isn't ever, in my opinion, going to make ANYONE happy. Goliath can't be a human. Elisa can't be a gargoyle. Their love transcends species. But it doesn't transcend their identities. Those identities are part of what makes them who they are, part of what makes them lovable to each other.
So we're back to where we started. They can't have children by normal means, because neither is going (assuming they had the option) to switch species. So is it science or sorcery? You ask what if they wanted a child badly enough? But wanting a child badly doesn't mandate science or sorcery. The answer is obvious and much more human. Much more gargoylean too for that matter.
Basically, you're hypothetical doesn't fly in any direction, at least not without ignoring so much about what we know about the two characters that it renders any answer pointless.
Sorry.
Faieq Ali writes...
I have a few questions, which concern my favourite gargoyle/human relationship (and the only gargoyle/human relationship I know about). Now down to the questions:
1) When you say that, the Goliath and Elisa's "wedding", will be way, way down the line, do you mean before 2008 or after 2008?
2)Would any of Goliath and Elisa's kids or grankids, be alive in 2158? (When I first heard that Samson would be Goliath's grandson, I thought he was Elisa's granson aswell. Just thought I'd let you know.)
3)Would their kids even live as long as gargoyles or as long as humans?
Greg responds...
1. I don't know the exact date. Gradual progression. I'd think before 2008 however.
2. No, Samson isn't Elisa's blood grandson, though in human terms he would be her step-grandson, and in garg terms you could certainly call her one of his rookery grandmothers. As for any other children of "the Marriage of Goliath & Elisa", I'd like to keep that a secret for a bit longer.
3. Can't say without giving too much away.
Jeff Lenihan writes...
Mr. Weisman,
I had a couple of questions regarding the double date you said you planned on sending Elisa and Goliath on.
1)In your mind, would Goliath have been dating Delilah out of any real interest in her as a person, or would it only have been a superficial attraction based on her resemblance to Elisa?
2)Obviously, Elisa wouldn't be thrilled about the idea of Goliath dating anyone. Do you think, however, that she would resent Goliath (either consciously or subconciously) for dating Delilah, who basically looks like a gargoyle version of herself? I ask this mainly due to the events of "The Mirror." Goliath's statment about not recognizing her beauty when she was human, coupled with his reluctance to answer her question as to whether he thought she was ugly, could be interpreted to mean that he only found her beautiful when she had a gargoyle's form.(Granted, I think you stated previously that this wasn't what you meant for him to be saying, but it could be interpreted that way)
3)You said you were considering Jason as a potential date for Elisa. Given the fact that Elisa told him in Hunter's Moon 3 that there was someone in her life who would always come before him, wouldn't it be uncharacteristically cruel for her to then turn around and make him think he had a chance with her after all?
Greg responds...
1. I think it would have had a lot MORE to do with the fact that Elisa WANTED him to "see other people, gargoyles, whatever..." Delilah is the only real option in NYC at this time.
2. O.K., for starters, saying "they're dating" is pushing it. Rather, Elisa and Goliath experiment with not seeing each other. Their dates (for this one night) are basically being used a bit. So, yes, I think seeing Goliath with Delilah would disturb Elisa. And frankly, seeing Delilah period is just disturbing for Elisa. But seeing Elisa with another man would also disturb Goliath. They're trying to make the best of their mutual decision that seeing each other is impossible. But let's just say the date does not go smoothly.
And by the way, you're misrepresenting me with regards to "The Mirror". I think in fact that Goliath did NOT find Elisa sexually attractive until "The Mirror" allowed him to see her through a gargoyle's eyes. There was always chemistry there. But it was based on (a) her physical attraction to him and (b) a strong emotional and spiritual connection. After "The Mirror", Goliath also maintained a physical attraction to Elisa. He was no longer blinded by her human characteristics.
3. Would it be any crueler for her to go out with Morgan, who had no idea about her relationship with G? At least Jason wouldn't be blind-sided. Anyway, she isn't trying to be cruel. This is a sincere attempt. As far as her rational mind is concerned, the guy might really have a chance if things work out. I'm not saying there's no potential for cruelty involved. Welcome to the world of dating. But in any case, it's one date. A first date. So let's not over-react.
VF writes...
My two young daughters prompted me to watch "Gargoyles," and now I'm hooked, too--just for different reasons. Hmm, then again, maybe not for different reasons. ...
I think it's great that you incorporated elements of Shakespeare, Arthurian legend, etc. (My kids really impressed their preschool teacher when they started name-dropping Shakespearean characters left and right.)
And I am especially impressed with how you and your colleagues were able to make me care so much about animated characters--a definite tribute to the quality of the storytelling and characterization is my guess. The romantic in me just loves the careful development of the Goliath/Elisa relationship. Subtle-but-emotion-filled glances, touches and comments (sometimes even unbeknownst to the characters themselves) make it all the more romantic and all the more regrettable that there are no more episodes to see it play out further.
My question relates to "Hunter's Moon, Part III." How does Goliath internalize his failure to save Elisa since he had promised that he would always be there for her (I think in "The Gathering")? Now, granted, I don't think Elisa would ever expect ANYONE to always be there to save her (although it's a nice and loving concept she can appreciate). But I think Goliath expects it of himself and would have a difficult time, at some point, accepting that he was not able to save her (not to mention that he was in part responsible for causing her to fall, albeit accidentally) and would not be able to just put that behind him.
Of course, I'm the first to cheer when their relationship does move to the next level with the kiss and all (and later in "The Journey" with the mutual statement that neither of them regrets their chosen path). The earlier "Hunter's Moon" scenes involving Jason, as well as the revelation that Elisa is OK after all, certainly provide the two with plenty of compelling motivation to more openly acknowledge how they feel about each other. But still, I can't help feeling Goliath's characterization would not allow him to simply consider all that happened while he was caught up in seeking vengeance as a lesson learned and move on. Your thoughts? (And thank you.)
Greg responds...
Wow. I like letters like yours, thanks. THis response is so long after your post, I just hope you stop by to see it.
I don't think anything was settled. And I think some of the TREMENDOUS FURY coming off Goliath after Elisa's "death" was an obvious result of guilt -- classic Demona-style-"I'm blaming you for my failing"-guilt. But once she's revealed to be alive, obviously, a huge chunk of that goes away. I imagine that sometime, off camera, he had some kind of, "You nearly died and it was my fault" moment with her. And she immediately said something incredibly sensible. He's smart enough to KNOW she's right. But that doesn't change how he feels. Obviously, again, he'd continue to be protective of her. But they're way past the point where he can pretend that he can some how keep her out of dangerous situations.
So the CRISIS is on hold. But I think it'll surface, at the worst possible moment, the next time her life is truly -- as opposed to every-episode-casually -- on the line.
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg! You've previously mentioned having big plans for the clones that extended to 2158 and beyond, and today you confirmed that some would have children. 1) When you mentioned having plans that extended far into the future, did you mean the present clones or their children? 2) If it's the former, how would they survive that long? 3) Are the clones' children going to remain a separate clan, or will they merge into other clans? 4) Are you going to try to completely nullify what TGC did to the clones, or have you incorporated it into your future plans for them? 5a) Do you have any plans for moving the clones out of the Labyrinth? 5b) If so, where will they move to and why? 6) Will the clones be able to produce genetically normal gargoyle offspring? 7) If you've given this any thought, would the offspring have a parent clone's backwards-coloring or that of the gargoyle one or either of the parents was cloned from? 8) What was Elisa's reaction to finding out she had a clone? 9) If Delilah has a child, how would Elisa react to it?
Greg responds...
1. I'm not sure I understand the question...
2. See the answer to 4.
3. I can't answer this while the clan contest is ongoing.
4. Honestly, I haven't decided yet. Though I didn't care for the episode, it's absolutely one of the easiest to fix. Seems to me the clones could wake up at any time. So if the series came back in the present, I could wake them then. Or I could wake them anytime before 2158. But I figure with Goliath Chronicles it's going to be an all or nothing thing. So I can't make this specific decision in a vacuum. Right now, I'm leaning toward ignoring all post-Journey continuity. But I haven't made -- and probably can't make -- a final decision until I know in what form the series will resurface.
5a. See the answer to 3.
5b. Ditto.
6. Sure.
7. Being color-blind, it's not the first thing I think about.
8. On the surface, she was annoyed with Demona and Thailog, but open to being friends with Delilah. (She had seen the effect Goliath's harsh reaction had with Thailog.) Underneath that think the whole thing made her anxious. I do not think as of "The Journey" she had as yet gone down to meet Delilah.
9. Whoah, you're getting ahead of yourself...
Jeremy writes...
First i would like to say that GARGOYLES was the best show i have ever seen.My first question is have you got any new offers on bringing back the series?Have you tried HBO they picked up spawn which is another kick ass show?I think they would jump at gargoyles and it would give you more freedom.If hbo did pick up gargoyles would the story's be more risky using adult themes such as drug use,swearing,nudity or murder.I personaly would love to see the saga shift into a more adult series.
Greg responds...
First off, no. No one has suggested bringing the show back except me. HBO isn't likely to want it, or to get it for that matter even assuming they did want it. They didn't "pick up" Spawn, they were the ones who brought it to the screen in the first place.
As to whether the show would get "more adult" if we had the non-broadcast freedom to be, the answer would generally be "no". I think the show appeals to adults now, without adding gratuitous elements. I wouldn't shy away from doing a drug story if I had a good story to tell about drugs. Adding curse words and nudity for their own sake doesn't interest me. I like nudity as much as the next guy, but it would have to fit. We basically showed Fox nude at the end of "Eye of the Beholder", because it made sense that she'd have no clothes on after her transformation. But I'm not out to arouse anyone. As for murder, hey, been there, done that.
The show's the show. I'd love to have freedom from standards and practices, but I won't ignore my own standards.
On the other hand, the show might get more mature, in the sense that Goliath and Elisa's relationship would continue to mature. That doesn't mean we'd be showing them engaged in sex acts, but we'd deal maturely with inter-species romance. At least I'd hope so.
Nick writes...
Hey hey. I still remember seeing the first episode of Gargoyles. I guess I was about 9 or so. I still get goosebumps when I watch the intro. And I wasnt surprised to read that you work on the ST series. I've watched it too from its first broadcast (in my area anyway). I think I've only missed it 3 times but seeing how they dont play the episodes in any specific order odds are I havent missed anything I havent already seen. But onto my question. Can you sum up the Goliath Chronacles for me? I never saw them since for a while I didnt have cable and dont currently have toon disney. Thanks.
Greg responds...
Erin says: I think that was a very good question. I have a friend at school and his name is Nicholas. And he likes the GARGOYLES show too. And Nicholas has a nickname, and his nickname is Nick.
Greg says: I'll sum up "The Journey" which was the first episode of THE GOLIATH CHRONICLES: Goliath is brooding about the loss of the Clock Tower and about how humanity seems to be perpetually at odds with the Gargoyles. He visits Elisa. And they are attacked by Quarrymen, a KKK-esque organization that hates Gargoyles. Elisa & Goliath survive, and Goliath realizes his Journey isn't over. (A lot more happens, but you asked me to sum up.) As for the other 12 episodes of Chronicles, well, I had nothing to do with them. They aren't cannon in my mind. And I'm not qualified to describe them to you. Ask in a comment room.
Chapter XIII: "Reawakening" (background rambling)
I'm trying something different with this ramble. And because of recent difficulties, I'm going to break the Ramble into two parts. My thoughts on reviewing the episode last Friday night will need to be recreated from scratch. And I'll get to that as soon as I can.
But first I thought you guys might appreciate a little background. What follows is a long memo that I wrote to Story Editor Michael Reaves after receiving the first draft of writer Brynne Chandler Reaves' outline on our thirteenth and final episode of the first season. Pay careful attention to the date of the memo and the title of the episode. I'll comment on both sometime in the next few days...
THE MEMO (unedited):
To: Michael Reaves Date: 4-10-94
From: Greg Weisman Ext: 7436
Re: Notes on "The Awakening" / Outline for 4319-013 of GARGOYLES
GENERAL NOTES
This is a tough one, because in this episode, we have a very specific mission, which is to remind Goliath of his. In order to accomplish this, I'd like to focus both our efforts and Goliath's soul-searching. These aren't simple concepts but I'm gonna try and go through them in baby steps. This is less for our benefit than for the benefit of our audience & Goliath. (Remember, Goliath is a determined thinker if not a quick one.)
Goliath spends the episode searching for the true meaning behind the gargoyle motto, "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
We begin by defining our terms. Goliath first needs to understand the following equation: "Castle = Home = Family = Community". He more or less learned the Castle through Family section in "ENTER MACBETH", but we'll need to reiterate the lesson in some way for our audience. Then we need to take him the final step from Family to Community.
After that (or perhaps simultaneously), he needs to decide on what is meant by "protect". Protect what? The physical structure he lives in? No. Again, Home leads into Family which leads into Community.
Protect why? To survive in a hostile environment? Ultimately and by the end of the episode Goliath decides/remembers that to survive is not enough. Coldstone and Demona provide cautionary proof; both of them are abominations of a sort, created in the name of "Survival". Survival ("breathing the air") is important, but clearly survival isn't enough. Goliath and his clan need purpose. They need to return to the mission: Protect the castle (i.e. protect the community).
This dovetails nicely w/Elisa's mission as a cop: "To protect and serve." And leaves us, at the end of our first season, with a more pro-active group of heroes.
SPECIFIC NOTES
Just a few specifics that aren't covered in the beat outline that follows.
Page 1.
--The trio saw snow last episode. Let's make the winter weather the backdrop to the action. Not part of the story.
--I don't think we want to light any fires in the clock tower.
Page 2.
--We no longer need Madame Serena in this story. Plus she adds another new element to a pretty full plate.
--Remember this is one of the spells that Demona ripped from the Grimorum back in "Temptation".
Page 3.
--Coldstone wouldn't name himself. It's not gargoylean thing to do. And he hasn't been awake long enough to know he needs a name. Let Demona do it.
Page 7
--I think we can fit the action of this story into one night, so this is kind of a moot point, but I don't think Demona would risk sleeping as stone in Xanatos' castle. She doesn't trust anyone that much.
--Let's not overplay Matt's conspiracy fettish. It's o.k., but we don't want him to come off as a "babbling".
Page 11
--Remember, unless we're getting biblical here, Gargoyles weren't "created". They have very strong territorial and protective instincts. These instincts are as strong as their survival instinct. But I want to make sure we don't imply that they were magically created by someone or something who gave them a mission.
Finally, if I could recommend a title change... how about "Re-Awakening" instead of "The Awakening". I think it's a bit more appropriate all the way around.
ACT ONE
1. Prologue #1 - Present Day Manhattan - All-Nite Grocery - Winter Night
--It's snowing in Manhattan and will continue to snow until the last scene.
--A lone thief holds up the owner of a small and otherwise empty All-Nite grocery store.
--Thief tells the owner: "I guess we just live in dangerous times.
2. Prologue#2 - Flashback to 994 A.D. Scotland - Castle Wyvern - Night
(Note this scene happened off-camera during part one of the five-parter, somewhere around page 24 of script #4319-001.)
--Goliath informs Hudson that they must leave to harry the vikings far away.
--He'll need Hudson's tracking skills.
--Demona and "pre-Coldstone" gargoyle (Goliath's rookery brother) are also present.
--Magus comes thru and says or does something obnoxious.
--Demona, secretly desperate for Goliath to bring them all along, asks why they bother protecting the human's castle at all?
--Pre-Coldstone agrees: "Let them keep the castle, we can survive anywhere."
--(We see he is of a semi-simlar mind-set to Demona, which explains why she uses him 1000 years later for Coldstone.)
--Hudson firmly states the gargoyle mission statement: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..."
--Goliath instructs his rookery brother to stay w/Demona and protect.
3. Present Day - Winter - Clock Tower - Night
--Goliath's been daydreaming (at night) about old memories.
--Trio are going to a movie; they invite Hudson along.
--Hudson's a couch potato. He'll wait to see it on cable. Besides he's got to guard their home.
--Trio: We live over a police station. What could happen? We don't have to guard the place every night.
--Hudson tosses off gargoyle truism: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air..." (But that's just an excuse to be left alone.)
--Goliath reacts silently, realizing their mission has lost meaning for the gargoyles, even Hudson. Maybe even himself.
--Trio leaves ("We don't even live in a castle anymore...")
--As Elisa enters.
--She wants to know how gargoyles are "surviving" the cold weather.
--G says they're fairly immune... to the elements.
--Elisa starts to leave for her shift w/offhand remark: "Time to do a little of the old 'Protect and Serve'."
--G stops her to find out what she means.
--Police motto.
--But what does it mean? Protect who?
--(Maybe Elisa can get us from Castle to Family here.)
--Goliath decides to accompany Elisa on the night shift.
--Which is a bit problematic now that she has a partner.
4. Castle
--Demona has talked a reluctant Xanatos into another attempt to destroy Goliath.
--Xanatos & Demona use science & sorcery to revive creature made from cybernetics and mismatched gargoyle parts. (The head is that of Goliath's rookery brother, our pre-Coldstone, augmented by cybernetic-eye & etc.)
--Demona names him Coldstone.
(--Perhaps she represents Xanatos as her servant. Perhaps he allows it.)
(--Note: in this episode, I think we want to sense a tension between X & D, but I don't think we want to bust them up here. It's distracting and we have enough to deal with.)
--Coldstone's confused. Last thing he remembers is Goliath & Hudson leaving the castle. Then came sunrise and oblivion.
--Demona: "Goliath abandoned us to the mercy of humans."
--He has been seduced by their beliefs.
--It is because of him that you look like this....
--It's mirror time.
--Does audience see him or do we save that revelation?
5. Manhattan Streets / All-Nite Grocery / Rooftop across the street.
--Elisa & Matt are driving in her car.
--Goliath is following them from above. (She's given him a walkie-talkie or headset or something. She's basically wearing a wire so that he can be on her shift with her.)
--They investigate All-Nite grocery store robbery from scene 1. (Not a crime in progress. Remember, they are detectives, not beat cops.)
--While Matt questions the owner...
--Goliath, watching from above, is able to talk quietly w/Elisa.
--We get from Family to Community.
--Elisa: No one wants to live a prisoner of their own castle anymore. We live in a community. The whole community needs to work together...
--G: "To survive." (He still hasn't gotten it yet.)
--Radio call: "All available units."
6. Times Square.
--That tortured soul, Coldstone, is going bonkers.
--(He hated "Cats". No, wait... he hates humans.)
--(Physical strength only. No robotic weaponry yet.)
--Morgan and other cops are just securing the perimeter, keeping people clear.
--From a distance, Goliath surmises another Xanatos robot ploy. (He sees the occasional metallic glint. The rest is in shadow.) He won't be dragged into another of Xanatos' schemes.
--Elisa & Matt don't have that luxury. They approach the thing. Tell it to cease and desist, etc.
--Coldstone prepares to throw a small car at them or something.
--As Goliath reacts, we fade out.
ACT TWO
7. Times Square.
--With Elisa endangered, Goliath doesn't hesitate to intervene and save her and a flabergasted Matt.
--Now Coldstone really goes ballistic. Literally. Barrel rises from robotic arm and fires.
--Goliath dodges or maybe he is hit, but Coldstone is too shocked to notice. --He didn't know he could do that.
--(Xanatos had a pre-programmed battle mode built-into his circuitry.)
--While C is figuring this out, Goliath comes in and smashes him.
--It's only in close that Goliath realizes he's not fighting a robot.
--(Is this the audience's first full look at Coldstone too??)
--And it's only now that Coldstone recognizes G.
--But all this convinces Coldstone that Demona was telling the truth.
--Goliath is attacking his own rookery brother to defend a human.
--But Goliath is out-matched, and soon losing.
8. Inside Orpheum Theatre (Times Square).
--Trio are watching movie from balcony.
--(As Broadway did in "Deadly Force").
-- "There sure are an awful lot of explosions in this movie."
--But are those explosions coming from outside?
--Suddenly movie stops. House lights come up.
--On ground level, Morgan is ushering people out the back entrance, calmly and for their own safety.
--Trio exit to see what's going on.
9. Times Square.
--Trio arrive in time to save Goliath from Coldstone.
--Coldstone surrounded by all four gargoyles.
--Looks like the tide of battle might have shifted.
--We see gargoyles thru Coldstone's robot POV.
10. Castle.
--Matchcut to Xanatos office monitor.
--Seems he gets a direct feed on whatever Coldstone sees or hears.
--X to D: Looks like sonny-boy's having trouble making friends.
--(No indication that they're going to help yet.)
11. Times Square.
--Goliath does not attack; he's still trying to put everything together.
--Could this abomination really be his rookery brother?
--At first, Goliath doesn't talk to Coldstone, rather he speaks about "it".
--Which of course doesn't endear him to Coldy one bit.
--G tries a kinder, gentler approach.
--Might even be starting to reach him.
--G: What happened to you, pal?
--From off-screen Demona says: "We did."
--Goliath, trio and Coldstone turn to see Demona, Xanatos in Gargoyle armor and a Steel Clan Robot. Fade to black.
ACT THREE
12. Times Square.
--Stand-off.
--Demona: If you're going to bring your whole clan, you can't expect me not to bring mine.
--G: You call that a clan?
--Coldstone is torn, confused. What should he do?
--Demona: "Destroy Goliath. Destroy him, and we survive."
--Coldstone looks down at his cobbled-together form: "Is this survival?"
--Demona tells him not to be fooled by appearance.
--Goliath and the others have been corrupted by humans.
--"We are the only real gargoyles left."
--Travis Marshall pulls up in newsvan.
--While cameraman is setting up, Elisa uses "wire" to warn Goliath.
--Goliath appeals to Xanatos
--(Probably doesn't yet know that Xanatos IS one of the robots.)
--(G thinks he's talking by radio-link via the robots.)
--G: It's your city, X, shouldn't we reconvene someplace less fragile.
--Demona doesn't like the idea, but Xanatos insists.
--(She's not ready to sever their partnership yet).
--Xanatos quietly names a spot that only Goliath (and Elisa via their wire) can hear.
--The eight combatants fly off, severally.
--Marshall only gets the tail end on camera.
13. Clock Tower.
--Hudson sees Marshall's report on t.v.
--Discusses dilemma (theoretically w/Bronx, but he's really talking to himself).
--Goliath told them to stay and guard the tower.
--What should he do?
14. George Washington Bridge.
(Or whatever bridge is closest to Times Square.)
--Your basic battle royale...on the bridge, in the air. Among other things...
--Brooklyn goes after Demona.
--He's still mad at her from "Temptation."
--Which allows Goliath and Coldstone to continue their face-off.
--The Steel Clan robot is destroyed.
--Xanatos is forced to unmask.
--But generally, the bad guys are winning, if barely.
--Coldstone & Goliath plunge into the icy river.
15. The River.
--Coldstone's got a built-in breathing apparatus that extends over his mouth and nose automatically.
--As they struggle underwater, Goliath's losing air and consciousness.
--G. hears Hudson's voice: "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air."
--Suddenly, Goliath is pulled out of the water... by Coldstone.
16. An Ice flow.
--As G. gasps for breath he sees that a battered Demona and Xan have the drop on an even more battered Trio. The fight is over; the good guys lost.
--Demona's glad Coldstone saved G. for her to finish off.
--But Coldstone wants some answers first.
--Coldstone: "You said if Goliath dies. We would survive."
--Again, he indicates himself: "Is that all there is... surviving?"
--Demona's almost tender with him, but what she says is something like: "That's all that counts."
--But Goliath has finally figured it out. Surviving is not enough. To merely survive at all costs is not the gargoyle way. Gargoyles protect the way gargoyles breathe. To forget that leads to true corruption. Not the corruption of humans, or even Coldstone's metallic corruption. But the bitter fanaticism of Demona's corrupt soul. Or something like that.
--Of course, Demona's not just gonna sit there and let Goliath speechify forever.
--She takes aim.
--Coldstone leaps between them, takes the blast and is blown off the ice into the water. He does not resurface.
--Goliath immediately dives in after his brother.
--Demona fires into the water at both of them.
--She is furious at Coldstone's betrayal.
--Trio try to take some advantage of situation, but Xanatos won't allow it.
--Suddenly, the ice seems to be hit from above by a cannonball that sends everyone reeling.
--That was no cannonball that was Bronx. Hudson dropped him from on high.
--Again, the tide has turned. And it's all Xanatos can do to grab Demona and rocket her out of there.
--Goliath comes up for air. There's no sign of Coldstone.
--Goliath has lost his only surviving brother.
17. Epilogue #1 - Bridge.
--The six gargoyles are climbing back up the bridge. (They'll need some height to glide home.)
--Hudson apologizes for abandoning their home, the clock tower.
--Goliath points toward Manhattan and says something like: "The clock tower is where we sleep. But our home is that island. Our castle is Manhattan. And gargoyles always protect their castle... and anyone, human or gargoyle who resides within."
--Elisa pulls up in her car. It took her awhile to get clear of Matt.
--Are they o.k.? Do they need anything?
--Goliath: "I need a detective."
18. Epilogue #2 - All-Nite Grocery - Dawn.
--The thief from scene 1 comes in again.
--The owner is scared at first but the thief is very contrite.
--He gives back all the money and asks the owner to call the police so that he can turn himself in.
--When the flabbergasted owner asks why, the frightened thief replies: "Six monsters and a cop told me to."
19. Rooftop across the street from the All-Nite Grocery - Morning.
--In the cold early morning wind amid hazy sunlight, Elisa stands on the roof across the street from the grocery store amid six horrific stone gargoyles.
--Elisa watches, as Morgan (at the end of his shift) takes the thief away in his squad car.
--Elisa: "Well, it's a start. Xanatos, Demona, you two are next."
--The sun breaks through the clouds, shining brightly on a beautiful winter's day in Manhattan.
--E: "You know, guys, the city feels safer already."
--She leaves them there to sleep and heads home after a long night.
--FADE.
End of memo. My real Ramble should come soon.
Joxter the Mighty writes...
Recently, when someone asked you what other cartoons you liked, you mentioned among them, "Old Development Bonkers"... What did you mean by that?
Greg responds...
There were two versions of Bonkers. One that I developed which featured Bonkers, Jitters, Sgt. Grating and Miranda Wright.
There were some problems on the show that came to light when episodes first came back from overseas. Disney panicked. Over-reacted. They basically took everyone off the show and started from scratch with a new developement and production team.
They tossed everything but Bonkers himself. Brought in Detective Piquel, and I think, watered down the premise. Some of the episodes might have been individually better -- and I think the art direction was definitely improved, but the ideas that made the show unique were flattened or ignored.
Then to add insult to injury they aired all the NEW episodes first, and created a "Transition episode" to transition from the Piquel episodes to the Miranda episodes, making it appear as if our stuff had been an afterthought. Given that our show didn't LOOK as good, it made us seem like a poor replacement, when in fact I think our stories were better (just my opinion).
By the way, the Miranda/Bonkers relationship was a clear precedent for Elisa/Goliath. (Doesn't that seem strange?) And because I didn't get to play out all my HILL STREET BLUES inspired cop ideas in Bonkers, it gave impetus to making Elisa a cop so that I could play that stuff out in Gargoyles.
Aaron writes...
What division, roughly, does Elisa work in? Homicide, Narcotics, Missing Persons, etc. I'd have to guess Organized Crime, given her run-ins with Dracon, but we never really do find out much about Elisa's job. I realize that this is Gargoyles, not NYPD Blue, and what goes on in Elisa's personal life is much more important to our then her job, but it would be nice to know.
Awakenings memories: Hmmm, I caught it the first time around in '94, so they're a bit vague. All I really have is images, Goliath catching Hakon's sword, Demona's first appearence (Goliath may be bigger, but she's still scarier), etc. But even five minutes into the first episode, I knew I'd found something very different and very good. I was hooked.
Greg responds...
Aaron, to be honest, I'd have to do a bit more research into the workings of the NYPD to answer your question completely.
Maybe, "A FAN" or Airwalker knows this....
But I thought she was a Squad Detective, meaning she handles whatever comes her way, ala NYPD BLUE. According to that show, I there are also special squads like ANTI-CRIME, Missing Persons, etc.
If I had to pick one of the ones you listed above, then I would pick Organized Crime. But I'd still lean toward "ordinary" Squad Detective.
Robby Bevard writes...
Inspired by my long ramble... The very first time we meet Dracon, it is quite clear that he and Elisa have some sort of prior relationship from before the series started. His calling her "Sugar" for instance. Exactly how did they know each other? Was it just through past dealing with her being a cop and him being a badguy? Their relationship seems too personal for that. Not that it seems that they dated at one point or anything,but there seems to be a back story. COuld you fill us in a little if there is one?
Greg responds...
There were prior cop/criminal run ins. Dracon was her Lex Luthor, so to speak. And no, they never dated, but I think there are some interesting stories in their pasts.
Vashkoda writes...
Hi Greg! You may have already answered this in some shape or form, but in case this hasn't been asked: We know that Goliath started having feelings for Elisa possibly as early as "Awakenings", and that he first began to realize how beautiful she was in "The Mirror". But when (if ever) did Demona begin to suspect that Goliath and Elisa loved each other? Or did she never consider the possiblility because the idea of a gargoyle loving a human was ludicrous?
Greg responds...
I think that subconsciously Demona suspected it as early as Awakening V. That's one of the reasons she hates Elisa so much.
Chapter XII: "Her Brother's Keeper"
I think Michael Reaves came up with this title. I wanted to shorten it to "Brother's Keeper" so that it would implicitly include the Trio, Goliath and his late rookery-brothers, Jackal & Hyena. But Michael talked me out of it. He was right.
This was the second out of three episodes where we attempted to do Kenner a solid by inserting a toy into the series. The Helicopter was a much more awkward fit than Brooklyn's motorcycle had been. But we all agreed to make it work. Originally, Lex was going to repair Derek's police chopper, but someone suggested using the Pack 'copter instead. So we tried to make it all play as organic as possible. Lex and the Simulator, to set up his ability to pilot the thing. Broadway bringing up the obvious question as to why winged gargs would need a chopper, so that the audience didn't think we were ignoring those points. Etc. And in the end, it still plays artificial. But fortunately it's in an episode that is othewise filled with tremendous emotional honesty. So maybe it all balances out.
Of course, the irony was that Kenner never made a gargoyle helicopter. Without telling us, they switched to a sky sled sorta thing, because they couldn't figure out how to do a helicopter that successfully interacted with the garg-toys' wings. No good deed goes unpunished.
Broadway: "If cops were meant to fly they'd have wings." I love that line.
Derek - This was part of our plan to turn Derek into Catscan. Of course, the Catscan name was eventually dropped for Talon. The original plan for Catscan had him being a scientist that worked for and was duped by Xanatos. Picture us trying to combine Derek and Anton. (I know it's a mind-bender. It was more like Derek's personality and Anton's expertise.) But the Garg Universe told me otherwise once we created Derek for "Deadly Force". He'd be the cursed one. And this was just step one. Step only, if we never got a second season. So we left it open ended. And I think it's a pretty stunning bittersweat ending. The snow starts to fall (all very symbolic) and we don't know if Derek will listen to Elisa's tape of Fox or not. And we leave Elisa, standing, wondering, thinking, as the snow falls. It's not your typical Saturday morning cartoon conclusion -- not even for a drama. What did you all think at the end of that after your first viewing?
The snow became a very important visual metaphor for me. I exchanged a few faxes with Japan to make sure (that contrary to the script) there was NO SNOW on the ground at Xanadu, no snow at all, until it starts falling during Elisa's last conversation with Derek.
CONTINUITY:
Sure, Jackal and Hyena were at large, but we establish here that Wolf and Fox are in prison. Anyone looking back at "Thrill" would know that this makes sense. Lex and Goliath take Dingo, J & H out on the roof. No human witnesses to their evil. And they didn't do anything against anyone but the gargs. But Wolf and Fox were photographed taking human (well, fashion model) hostages. So they go to prison. Dingo goes to Europe. J&H are still around to do mischief. But meanwhile, most normal humans still regard them as celebrities, until Hyena pulls a knife. (We had planned once-upon-a-time to make knives a bigger element/part of their arsenal. But it was a bit problematic S&P-wise, and it became moot after "Upgrade".)
Broadway, ever Elisa's biggest fan, thinks Derek should just trust her.
Brooklyn, still scarred from trusting Demona, points out that trust doesn't mean much without honesty.
Lex, still pissed at the Pack, just wants to catch them.
And it's nice to see Morgan and Matt again. If you like guys in towels.
Xanatos, as usual, is so cool.
"Never a gargoyle around when you need one."
"Detective. Always a pleasure."
"My life is anything but dull."
And that's just his dialogue. His plan is audacious. He has Owen call the Police, counts on Elisa and the gargs to rescue him from Jackal & Hyena. (We loved playing that irony.) And instructs Fox to tell Elisa everything. He's so confident, he even has no qualms about leaving Elisa and Derek alone to talk at the end.
And you gotta love a guy named Xanatos naming his retreat Xanadu.
I love the Hannibal Lechter inspired scene between Elisa & Fox. This of course was the moment when we all figured out what the garg universe already knew: "My god, Fox is in love with Xanatos." I hadn't known that back when Fox was created in the development days of yore. Hadn't known it when we did "Thrill". Hadn't known it until we were way into script on this. But there it was. And nothing would ever be the same. (Did you guys realize it there? And how far did you think we'd take it?)
Suddenly, the events of "Leader of the Pack", "Eye of the Beholder" and "Vows" seemed to spread out before me. And Alexander became a glimmer in my eye (if not Xanatos').
Elisa acts true to form here. What we'd spell out later in "Revelations" is already implied here. Elisa is extremely (if subconsciously) reluctant to share her gargoyles secret with anyone. Three times Goliath tells her to share her secret with her brother. Three times she finds an excuse not to. (Frank Paur found this repetitive. He tried to take one of the scenes and make it play more subjective. Like Elisa imagining a conversation with Goliath, while the actual Goliath was sleeping in stone. It was a sweet idea, but it didn't make any logical sense in terms of story flow and forced us to make storyboard changes and call retakes in order to get the version we've all seen.)
We loved playing irony. Elisa and Peter are right about Xanatos, but dead wrong about the way they're trying to control Derek's life. Diane and Derek are absolutely right about Derek needing to control his own destiny, but make the tragic choice of trusting that destiny to Xanatos. Those two scenes are terrific. (Helped immensely by vocal performances. And I also love Nichelle Nichols as the diamond exchange saleslady.)
Derek thinks Elisa thinks Xanatos is the "Prince of Darkness". "He practically is!" she responds. <SIGH> Tricksters are always being confused with Satan.
But that was more irony. It's not the demonic-looking gargoyles who are being compared to Satan. It's the handsome, rich Bruce Wayne-esque playboy. I guess the goatee helps.
My daughter's reactions:
As you may have gathered, it's become fascinating to me to see how Erin is reacting differently seeing all these episodes for the second time at age 5 1/2.
She was stunned at the end of Act One and following when Derek told Elisa that he was accepting Xanatos' offer. "That's not supposed to happen," she kept saying.
And all the trio stuff made her laugh. She especially liked Goliath's admonitions to the Trio: "Try to get along."
Brooklyn sure knows his pop-culture: Star Wars and Star Trek references within a few minutes of each other.
It was important to us to show that even guys as close as the Trio could get tired of each other. Sure they're all Rookery brothers and best friends. But if they had stayed at Wyvern (i.e. if there had been no massacre) they wouldn't have had to spend ALL their time together. At the very least, females would have provided a distraction. But here in the 20th century they're all they've got. So of course, there'd be good days and bad days. Like any siblings.
And of course, the sibling theme was central to the episode, including the Jackal & Hyena's relationship. The irony there being that they were getting along better than the Trio or the Mazas.
I loved Goliath's outrage at the lack of appreciation that the Mazas and Trio have for their siblings. It's very moving to me. (And helps us set up Coldstone for next episode.)
When Lex comments that if Broadway had his way, the garg-copter would be covered with food, I knew that we were pushing Broadway's eating habits into the dull one-joke tired category. I hate that line. And we tried to back off the eating jokes after that.
Anyone notice our tribute to Launchpad McQuack when Lex says "Any landing you can walk away from..."
Some gorgeous animation in this one. I loved what they did with the lighting when Lex gets Jackal and Hyena in the chopper's spot.
S&P
--The trio toss Jackal & Hyena out of their chopper. It's o.k. They're wearing parachutes. But did the Trio know that? Maybe with Jackal, since Hyena's chute had already opened. But was Hyena tossed to her presumptive death.
Yes. After all they're still thinking (first season) like tenth century warriors, not like twentieth century super-heros.
--One of the advantages to Syndication over Network is a more liberal S&P. We could show Broadway's fist heading into camera. We couldn't actually show him punching Jackal in the head, but we could show Jackal's POV of that fist heading toward him. A couple frames of black, and then we cut wide to Jackal on the ground, and we know what happened. But on Network, in "The Journey" or, say, "Max Steel", we are NEVER allowed to even imply a head blow. And we can't show a fist or gun or whatever pointed directly at camera (i.e. at the audience). Too disturbing, I'm told.
And finally, at the end, when Elisa arrests Hyena, I've got to ask, what do you think Hyena's smiling about?
Maybe that's the next contest...
Hmmm....
Chapter XI: "Long Way To Morning"
"Long Way To Morning" This was my title, based on an idea I'd had from way early in the development of the series. It was always obvious to me that the fact that the gargs turned to vulnerable stone at sunrise, gave the series a built-in ticking clock that added tension. But given the gargoyles' healing factor (to borrow a Wolverine term) it occured to me early on that there might come a time when sunrise couldn't come fast enough. That was the origin of this episode and the title. (I think I may have even mentioned the scenario in the Series' Writers' Bible.)
The other obvious purpose of the episode was to give Hudson a showcase episode to equal the Trio tryptich. As I've mentioned before, Gargoyles was originally developed as a comic series, and one of the funny little gargoyles in that show was "Ralph", a very domestic couch potato Gargoyle who loved to stay at home and watch T.V. Hudson developed out of Ralph, but he spent much of the first few episodes "Guarding the castle" (or the clock tower). We'd given him some great action in AWAKENING. But we still felt a major need to UN-RALPH him.
I wanted to deal with his age as realistically as possible. To have him doubt himself, maybe even be aware of his limitations, but then have him prove to himself that he still had something to contribute. I think we basically succeed in that here.
But this ep afforded us other opportunities as well. Opportunities to explore Wyvern backstory in our parallel flashback story:
--We find out definitively that Hudson WAS the leader of the clan and that Goliath was his second. We also get to see the baton get passed.
--We learn how Hudson was blinded in one eye.
--We meet Prince Malcolm and get a sense of how Princess Katharine became the bitch she was at the start of "Awakening". I think this was very important in paving the way for her role in the "Avalon" tryptich. By the end of "Awakening", she's remorseful and has seen the error of her ways, but it doesn't change how badly she acted. But this episode reveals how and why her antipathy toward Gargoyles was created. It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it helps to explain it enough so that we can buy her as a heroine when we next see her. Malcolm doesn't come off as well. I wanted to present how easily casual thoughtless words could be hurtful, and even lead to tragic consequences. My daughter Erin (age 5 1/2) had seen this episode at least once before. But this time, that aspect of Malcolm's inadvertent damage and Katharine's mistaken blame really grabbed her attention. The injustice of it really troubled her. Which is exactly the response I was looking for. (My kids are so cool. She also noticed Hudson's eye getting injured, and commented on how smart Hudson was to jump off into the waterfall.)
--I love the subtle changes that Jeff, Keith and Marina made in their voices when playing the young Magus, Goliath and Demona. It's interesting to see Demona's progression in hindsight from "Vows" to "Long Way" to "Awakening, Part One" to "City of Stone" to the present day. She really is a fascinating character, if I do say so myself. Here, you see her ambition. But no villainy. Of course, it made for a nice counterpoint with her vicious murderous tendencies in the present day story.
--Throughout production of this episode, I had to keep pointing out to the artists, etc., that the flashbacks all had a point of view, i.e. Hudson's. That Demona and Goliath's "private conversations" could NOT be as private as they thought. Hudson had to know what they were saying about him. Both because it further eroded his confidence in both the past and present (the true demon he had to overcome) and because if he didn't hear those conversations it would be cheating to include them in HIS dreams and flashbacks.
--We also intro'd the ARCHMAGE. A one-shot villain if I ever saw one, except that David Warner was so amazing, I knew I had to bring the character back. When he falls into the chasm, you can just here the Phoenix Gate exploding open down there. (Of course, to some people that sounded like him hitting bottom. Their mistake.)
Continuity:
Brooklyn still has it in for D. Broadway is now Ultra-Protective of Elisa. Hudson has superior tracking skills in the past and the present.
And Demona has clearly focused her hatred on Elisa. (Who, by the way, loses her second gun of the series.) It was important for these early episodes that we fool Demona into thinking that Elisa was dead. Otherwise, how else do we explain why she doesn't just kill her.
Demona at the end, uses her cannon as a club. This was designed to be ambiguous. Did Hudson's sword damage the weapon? Or was Demona just so furious that she wanted the satisfaction of cudgeling the old guy to death? Yeah, it was designed to be ambiguous, but no one ever EVER thought that the gun was damaged. They all assumed Demona just lost it. Which is probably true.
Speaking of that Waterfall thing, that image was important retro-pipe for Hunter's Moon, Part Three. (More on that in 54 chapters.)
Animation-wise, I just wish Demona hadn't come off as such a lousy shot.
I love Hudson and Goliath's last exchange. Goliath assures Hudson that he still has "Years of fighting left". Hudson, glad to be of use, is still less than thrilled at the prospect. It's a great wry beat, but it was also important to me to point out that no rational person would wish to fight like that forever. The gargs, including Hudson, fight the good fight because they have to, because it is their duty, part of their natural protective instincts. But none of them WANT to fight.
As usual, I'd like to encourage responses to this episode here at ASK GREG, particularly how you responded to viewing this for the first time.
Chapter X: "The Edge"
By the end of this episode, everyone is happy.
Both Goliath and Xanatos are afraid they've lost their edge. Both are convinced by the end that they've regained it. Both are at least partially deceiving themselves. [One of the little ambiguities that I love about the Xanatos tags is that one way to interpret them is that David is just full of it. He loses, but claims victory anyway.]
But David is just so lovable in this episode. You gotta love the villain who does NOT penalize his subordinate for beating him in a judo match. And he has such great audacious dialogue (kudos to Michael Reaves and Jonathan Frakes). A few approximate samples:
--"I'm the best friend you have."
--"If you're going to be picky, we won't get anywhere."
--"You're taking this much too personally."
And those were all in one scene. A scene where he's just standing out there awaiting their arrival. I mean, a guy as busy as he is... Is that confidence/arrogance or what?
And he's not afraid to get his hands dirty. Giving X the armor was essential. Up to this point, David had been only the brains. But to be a true reverse-hero, he had to be a warrior as well. Here we showed he had what it takes to mix it up. But always without being stupid. Question: How many of you knew the "red robot" was Xanatos in armor before the tag? Of course, now it seems obvious, but what about the first time you saw this ep?
And yet Elisa "Wouldn't want his karma." What goes around comes around. All that arrogance, had to receive some commeuppance. (Can anyone say Oberon?)
One thing that I thought was TOO OBVIOUS was the Steel Clan theft of the EYE OF ODIN. I would have preferred if that scene had been more ambiguous in Act One. Preferred that the audience maybe think that the Robot WAS Goliath, so that when Matt takes aim at the cliffhanger, we think he's going to shoot Goliath. The cliffhanger doesn't really play as is. Only Elisa is fooled, not the audience.
Everyone wonders why Xanatos donated the Eye to the Museum of MODERN Art. (Maybe because it had mediocre security, but adequate security cameras.) But what I want to know is whether or not Edvard Munch's "The Scream" is really at that museum?
Speaking of THE EYE, I may have mentioned that this was actually the idea of the Disney interactive video game people. We wanted to be synergistic, and I kinda liked the whole idea, so we put it into the show. It was another of our step-by-step additions to the continuity. Intro it as a minor maguffin. A dewdad for Xanatos. And build from there, with the eventual plan to actually make it Odin's eye. At some point in all this, we completely forgot that the idea came from the interactive people. We went back to see them months and months later and were reminded. Luckily the concepts hadn't gotten too far away from each other. But the design did. Unfortunately, our design wound up looking a bit Egyptian for my tastes. The Interactive design had a great Raven motif. (Oh, well.)
New characters (more or less):
A cameo by Derek.
The first mention of the Emir.
The first appearance of Travis Marshall. Michael and I worked this guy out together. He wouldn't be one of those fluff journalists. He'd be old school. He wouldn't whitewash David, just because the guy was a rich man. We always made sure to give Travis that edge. And still, I always felt we underused him. In this episode, Matt gives him a lift in Derek's chopper. Matt says, "You owe me one." Eventually, I'd like to see Matt collect on that favor in a story focusing on the two of them.
And speaking of Matt...
The first real appearance of Matt Bluestone. This guy was largely Michael Reaves' creation. (Although the "Bluestone" name was one of our earlier choices for Elisa's last name. After Chavez, Reed and Chavez, but before Maza.) At first, I admit I was dubious about him being a conspiracy nut. But it so worked. And this was the first time I ever worked with Tom Wilson. He's just so great. And so damn funny to have in the booth. (I love him in FREAKS & GEEKS.)
Matt & Elisa discuss the Illuminati, UFO's and Loch Ness. I love how dubious she is, with her inside joke: "Believe me, the world's strange enough as it is." Little does she know.
But my favorite thing about Matt is that ultimately he's a healthy influence on Elisa... "Maybe that's when you need one [a partner] the most." He's just a really good guy.
As usual, characters keep their promises. Matt vows to find out what those creatures (the gargs) are. And by God, eventually he does.
More on continuity...
Elisa's only JUST coming back to work. In cartoon terms, the fact that we waited this long after her gunshot wound, was a relative eternity. The height of cartoon realism. It doesn't seem like very long, but months passed between the original airings of DEADLY FORCE and THE EDGE.
And Chavez won't let her go back on the job without a partner. Michael conceptualized Matt -- after I mandated the creation of Elisa's partner. Cops have partners. It is one of the defining things about cops. When cop-shows show cops working solo, it always bugs me. I felt we got away with it for a bit. But it was time to make Elisa a more real cop. And that meant a partner. Not a bad guy. But someone who could potentially cause her trouble. And yet still really be her partner.
Broadway is still very solicitous toward Elisa. Taking the tv from her. It's sweet.
Random stuff:
The show is gorgeous to look at. (Thanks Roy, et al.)
I love Lexington's line when he regains consciousness: "We're still alive. How come?"
Watching the show this time, my daughter was very nervous that the Statue of Liberty would be damaged in the battle between our gargs and the Steel Clan. But when Broadway nailed one robot by impaling him with a metal claw from the other robot, Erin said, "Nice one."
Goliath is reading Dostoevsky. Are you?
Abigail Thorne writes...
I've been a fan of Gargoyles since it first came on--it's one of my all time favorites. I just wanted to thank you and your staff for creating such an imaginative, complex world for viewers like me to escape into for a half hour. Hopefully, you'll be able to continue your work on the show one day.
Okay, here's the question (I have others, but you said ask one at a time, which makes sense). Elisa, Goliath, and Bronx were gone for many months during their Avalon adventures. Explaining their whereabouts to Matt Bluestone and the rest of the Maza's was no problem since they are all in on the clan's secret. But what about Elisa's superiors at the police station? How did she explain what she had been up to for the past two or three months?
Greg responds...
Largely, she didn't. And that created trust problems with Chavez. Unfortunately, I didn't really have the time to deal with those problems. So I partially used TURF to reaffirm her committment to the job.
As to what she said, I think it was something along the lines of I needed some personal time. I tried to call Matt and my parents, etc.
(Also keep in mind, that after GOLEM and especially NIGHT OF THE PANTHER, I'm sure some communication made it back to Chavez. Not satisfactory communication. But something. And it doesn't hurt that Elisa has a great record and that her dad is a respected Sergeant.)
Todd Jensen writes...
Twice in the series, the gargoyles get their hands on a magical artifact that was stolen from a museum (first the Eye of Odin, and then the Mayan Sun Amulet), and keep it rather than finding some way of returning it to the museum (and the overall tone of their keeping it indicates that they chose to keep it in their custody because it was a powerful magical object that they wanted to keep out of the wrong hands, rather than the difficulties of returning it to the museum). This could be considered keeping stolen property. How does Elisa feel about it (I assume that she knew about their keeping both items)? (Admittedly, the Eye of Odin is a moot point by now since it's back in Odin's face, and I'm not sure that the museum in "The Green" really had that sound a claim to the Mayan Sun Amulet if it was taken from the pyramid by looters rather than a legitimate archaeological team - in real life, museums are indeed facing just such a problem with many of their artifacts on display having turned out to have been looted from archaeological sites, in fact - but I'm curious all the same).
Greg responds...
Elisa believes in the law. But she's also something of a rationalist. Unless she's prepared to explain the Eye of Odin to everyone (and risk being committed) there's not much point in giving it back to a museum that may increase security, but couldn't possibly understand the danger inherent in the object.
Chapter IX: "Enter Macbeth"
Another episode by episode ramble. Feedback encouraged.
So here's where all that great continuity got us in major trouble.
The episodes were all designed to play in a certain order. But I didn't tell my bosses that in advance. I know it sounds sneaky, but it wasn't really. We wrote the darn things and sent them off in order. It never occured to me they wouldn't be able to come back and air in order. I mean, how could a newer episode get the jump on an older one? How could an older episode not be ready before a newer one? Then the footage came back on "Enter Macbeth".
This was the first episode not animated in Japan. And immediately we knew we were in trouble. I'm not talking about the version you all have seen. The one that aired. I'm talking about stuff you never saw. Much of the original footage we got was unusable. This wasn't about just calling retakes. This wasn't about us bitching how "Thrill" wasn't as well animated as "Awakening". This was a major disaster. So my bosses said: "Air the next one." And I responded, "We can't."
And not just because they were all designed to air in order. It was a horrible coincidence, but this episode, this episode that was unairable, was a tentpole. Yeah, if Thrill or Temptation had been reordered it would have been sad. Same with "The Edge" and "Long Way To Morning". But big deal, right? Better to get a new episode out and not make the audience deal with repeats this early in the season. (Remember, we had aired our first five episodes in one week. This was only week five. In those days, week five was considered way too early in the year for reruns.)
But this was the follow-up to Elisa's injury. It was important to us that we continue our policy of "repercussions". We put her on crutches to show that a gunshot wasn't something that was solved in twenty-two minutes. This was an ongoing recovery. If you pulled the crutches out by airing Edge next, you blew out the sense of repercussions.
But that wasn't the clincher. Of course, the clincher was the Clock Tower. This was the episode where the Gargs were "banished" from the castle and moved to the Clock Tower. That was a major shift. If we cut straight to Edge, the audience would be lost. Fortunately, Gary was convinced. In a way, I was lucky that our first crisis of order came on such a pivotal "tentpole" episode. We couldn't reorder these. So we went with reruns. But it was a lesson learned. And it would effect the way we approached the second season.
But meanwhile, we had the problem at hand. We couldn't reanimate the entire show. So we picked shots to redo judiciously. There are still some awful looking scenes. When Goliath says, "How Dare You?!" to Elisa, he looks like an Animaniacs parody of Goliath. And that sarcophogus/iron maiden thing that Goliath follows Macbeth through looks like a prop out of CHIP N DALE'S RESCUE RANGERS. (Another perfectly good series, but with a slightly different art style, if you know what I mean.) Or how about the GIANT remote that Macbeth pulls from his duster in order to summon his ship? "Enter Macbeth" is still, as aired, the worst looking episode of the first season. And that really killed Frank and I, because we both really loved this story. We were sure that the bad animation would kill any interest in Macbeth. The fact that generally, the character did catch hold of fandom's collective imagination is a true testament to the work of Steve Perry, Michael Reaves, John Rhys-Davies and Jamie Thomason. And, oh, yes... William Shakespeare.
The weak picture forced us to use a lot of little tricks to get a final cut. One thing we did, which I regret, is reuse dialogue. Elisa says "You aren't safe here" like three times. And it isn't three different takes. It's just the exact same take reprinted and reused. Lex & Brooklyn also reuse lines to get Bronx to find Goliath. That sort of thing drives me nuts.
There is one really nice moment in the animation. When Macbeth chooses his sword off the wall, the reflection effect is quite sweet. And I also like the down shot of Bronx running right down the middle of Broadway (the street not the gargoyle). I also love how Goliath makes no attempt to hide. That really spoke to the Gargoyles attitude about living among humans. They wouldn't hold press conferences, but they would not cower.
Anyway, we ran reruns. Awakenings. And obviously all five episodes on five consecutive weeks. That might have been a good thing for people who had heard about the show by word of mouth in week two or later and needed to catch up. But for anyone who had been following the show from its premiere, it was a long time to wait for new episodes. By the time we came back, so much time had passed since "Deadly Force" that we felt the need to put a "Previously on Gargoyles" at the head of the episode. Another trick I cribbed from HILL STREET BLUES. Cartoons rarely did that sort of thing. Sure multi-parters had to. But single episodes... For some reason, it made me feel very grown up. (Which only proves how immature I really am.) The "Previously" also allowed us to cut 30 more seconds of bad looking footage out of the episode. That little bonus was something I'd remember for season two as well.
HOME
As we pushed guns in the previous episode, this one is laced with the imagery and language of home. What is it? What makes it? What price is one willing to pay to keep or secure it? There are four homes depicted. Well, really five. The Gargoyles' castle. Xanatos' prison. Macbeth's mansion. The Clock Tower. And the Castle again, once it is reclaimed by Xanatos and thus becomes a very, very different place.
I tried to make sure, as much as possible, that every episode had that kind of underlying theme. (I recently tried with very limited success to do the same thing in MAX STEEL. Someone asked me once, why the one-word S-Titles for all the Max Steel episodes. They were my attempt to make me and the writers focus on the theme of each story.)
And how do all these homes turn out? Macbeth is so obsessed that he loses his home to a fire. Xanatos finally gets out of prison. (Not on Halloween by the way, or that would make the dates depicted in Double Jeopardy innacurate. Obviously, Halloween was circled on his calendar because the guy just loves Halloween. And after all, Owen specifically says in a LATER scene that Xanatos has one week left before he gets out. The wall calendar had shown only a few days.) The Gargoyles lose the castle, gain the clock tower, but realize that home is literally where the heart is. And Xanatos... well all other concerns of Grimorum and gargoyle of destruction and competition pale next to the simple pleasure of being back home.
And how many of you were suprised that the Gargoyles lost the castle? That was supposed to be another pretty shocking development. I mean, sure, Batman might lose the Batcave for an episode, but for 56 episodes? When Goliath said "We'll be back to claim that which is ours" at the end, did most of you think he'd be back next week? Next month? By the time, the gang finally did return in chapter 65, did anyone still remember Goliath's vow?
MACBETH
I've discussed this before, but Macbeth's origins (at least in terms of our series) were (ironically) an early attempt to play the notion of THE HUNTER. I was looking for someone human who could physically take on the Gargoyles as prey. Someone smart, with an agenda. We actually started with the notion of trying to create our own KRAVEN THE HUNTER type character. But it quickly moved in its own direction. Frankly, away from Kraven and more toward BATMAN. In those days, we were constantly being told that we would be accused of ripping off Batman. So Frank, Michael and I decided to create a villain who, at least in M.O. would be our Batman.
I had a semi-separate idea to add a human to the cast who was from Goliath's time. Thus creating a good thematic nemesis or opposite for him. (The key to creating a good villain, in my opinion.) But this villain would have lived through the centuries. So that he was familiar with the very latest in technology. This dove-tailed with our anti-Batman, and was also exactly how we viewed Demona. So it soon became clear to Michael and I that the two characters must be connected in some way. That suggested that he shouldn't merely be 1000 years old. He should be Scottish as well. All that was left was a name. And given my love of Shakespeare, I'm surprised it took me so long to figure it out. Our nemesis was Macbeth himself. An immortal Scottish King. What Scottish King was more immortal than Macbeth? More mortal too for that matter.
This was the beginning of countless Shakespearian references that I would either slide (or force) into the show, or that the writers would stick in knowing I was a sucker for them. And I love the little exchange between Lex & Brooklyn...
[dialogue approximate]
LEX: "Wasn't "Macbeth" the name of that play by that new writer Shakespeare that Goliath was talking about?"
BROOKLYN: "Have you read it?"
LEX: "No. Have you?"
BROOKLYN: "No. But maybe we should."
This was my little way of trying to encourage our viewers to read or at least learn about the play. If they wanted to know who Macbeth was, it wouldn't hurt to go to the primary source.
And at the time, Shakespeare was my primary source for Macbeth. This was long before Tuppence Macintyre and Monique Beatty did all their research for me for "City of Stone". Back then, the only Macbeth I knew about was Shakespeare's.
We gave him a sense of honor, but a twisted one. And we gave him a very interesting motivation. I didn't yet know the particulars, but this guy was after Demona in a major way. He had stained glass windows in his home depicting the two of them. He was the man who named her. It was all pretty intriguing stuff to me. I love the exchange between him and Goliath. Goliath is a pawn. Mac wants the queen and believes that endangering Goliath is the surest way to ensnare Demona. And how does Goliath respond? By gum, if he doesn't laugh -- MANIACALLY!! And watch how the tables turn. Macbeth is not infallible and suddenly Goliath has him on the defensive. Goliath even uses a MACE!! Great stuff.
Incidentally, we had in the script described Macbeth as wearing a thin layer of exo-armor. And Goliath was supposed to dig his claws into it. Macbeth would escape by detaching from the armor. Instead, the artists did the bit with the duster coat. But I remembered the claws in armor thing and eventually found a place for it... in HUNTER'S MOON, PART THREE.
Finally, watching the episode tonight, my five year old daughter said she spotted the Mona Lisa on Macbeth's wall. I didn't see it. But I believe her. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the original. Too bad about that fire.
Greg Bishansky writes...
Have Dracon and Elisa met before "Deadly Force". For some reasons I see signs of a history between them.
Greg responds...
Yes. Too often.
Chapter VIII: "Deadly Force"
Another ramble as I review the entire series. Comments welcome.
"Deadly Force". I have to admit. I never liked the title. It always sounded too generic to me. Michael Reaves pointed out how appropriate it was, but "Temptation" had already given me a taste for one word titles. I came to prefer those, unless I was given a damn good reason not to.
The third episode of our trio tryptich. Broadway. Broadway and Goliath. Broadway, Elisa and Goliath. But this episode represents so much more.
If you were watching the series in '94 during it's original run, and you didn't already think, "Hey, this is different." Then by the end of Act One of "Deadly Force" you knew. I don't know if there's ever been a cartoon like "Deadly Force". A mainstream media production. We had had up to that point a few fairly shocking cliffhangers, a few fairly shocking events, but what equals Broadway pulling that trigger, the suddenly "empty" kitchen and Elisa lying in a pool of her own blood as we fade to black and cut to a commercial?
Where do I start? With pride, I guess. I am extremely proud of this one.
Guns. My personal stance on gun control isn't an issue. Not in this episode. This is about something that I think every even vaguely intelligent person can agree on. Guns aren't toys. Guns aren't "cool", no matter how they're depicted in the media. Guns demand respect. Elisa is at fault. Broadway's massively at fault. Because neither held enough respect for the weapon. (Now one might argue that Elisa lived -- nominally -- alone. It didn't occur to her that she needed to be more careful with her weapon. But it should have. She's a cop. She should know better.) As I write this, as I watched the episode tonight, my head is of course filled with thoughts of the six year old boy who yesterday took his uncle's gun to school and shot a six year old girl, killing her. And I don't want to sound arrogant. But I am angry. And I feel like this episode could really help people. That parents should HAVE to watch this with their kids. Required viewing. And the fact that Toon Disney won't even air it...! I'm furious. Simply furious.
Guns are the least of it. We wanted to send a message about repercussions. Real world repercussions. I wanted our series to be ABOUT repercussions. Demona and the Captain betray Wyvern. There are repercussions. You can't fix things. You can't go back and change it. That's why time travel in the Gargoyles' Universe has such STRICT laws. Without those laws, you remove the dramatic law of repercussions. The real world law that actions have repercussions. This episode was our ode to repercussions. The guns were just our means to an end.
Still, guns would be our medium and the episode is laced with them. With gun imagery. With gun language (e.g. Chavez referring to Dracon's alibi: "He's bulletproof.", etc.). I don't think the episode is too pedantic. I hope it's honest. Probably the most dishonest thing in the story was that Elisa DIDN'T die. Forgive me for that. But I couldn't let her go just then. Still, I think we gave our audience a bigger scare in this one then in most of the other episodes combined. Maybe she would die. There's a sense of scary (again real world) vulnerability in this. And we tried to make her injuries and suffering as realistic as possible. We weren't doing E.R. (or St. Elsewhere, since E.R. didn't exist back then), but we did try to make the medical stuff play true.
All this makes me proud. Proud of what's on the screen.
But there's a whole other side to the making of this show that makes me proud. For what isn't visible on screen. For teamwork. This is a story that seemed to need to be told. Most of the springboards for the 66 chapters came from me, but this one was waiting for us. My bosses Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston were behind the story from the start. Michael Reaves wrote an amazing script, and my God the thing is beautifully made. No one balked. Not our S&P executive. Not our bosses. No one. Think about how amazing that is? We had one of our young heroes pick up a very REAL gun and shoot our female lead in her own kitchen. That's pretty intense.
And fairly rewarding. Even our publicity department saw the value in this one. They got advance copies and sent them out. We had (always had) phenomenally good reviews. But this episode brought us praise from the kind of parents groups that most action cartoon shows usually fear. People got it. They got it. Dr. Madeline Levine wrote a book called "Viewing Violence". It's a fairly sobering study of the effect of modern media on impressionable minds. Disabused me of a few notions, I'll tell you. But she praises GARGOYLES, specifically this episode, in her book. People got it. But not TOON DISNEY people, I guess. They show a huge lack of respect for everyone who worked on that show. Everyone who did or might benefit from it.
(Re: The pool of blood. When it first came back from Japan, the pool of blood was much larger. We pulled it back by calling a retake. This wasn't cowardice on anyone's part. This was us trying to get our message across. We didn't want kids goofing on the pool of blood. Interested in the pool for the pool's sake, so to speak. We wanted enough blood there to make it real. To scare everyone. But we didn't want the pool to be distracting. And also we didn't want to imply that Elisa had already bled out.)
CHARACTERS
Broadway - First and foremost, this was still designed to showcase Broadway. All our nobler aspirations wouldn't matter if you walked out of this episode still thinking of the big guy as an eating machine and nothing else. So let's start by praising Bill Faggerbakke and voice director Jamie Thomason. Bill's performance is wonderfully poignant without falling into bathos.
And man, who is the scariest gargoyle when angered? Goliath? Demona? How about a vote for old Broadway? Guilt and anger tear him apart, and no one's safe. He PALMS Glasses for God's sake. He's young but maturing fast. I only had vague notions of Angela at this time. And I sure didn't know they were destined for each other. But I can see it here. The child who's done something so bad he's afraid to go home, ultimately taking responsibility for actions too horrible for most of us to face. Amazing strength of character.
Elisa - A secondary purpose (tertiary?) was to demonstrate that Elisa was a real human being, with real connections. A real life. She has a boss (introducing Maria Chavez), an apartment (introducing the loft), a cat (introducing Cagney). And she wasn't born a twenty-something police detective. She has a family. A father (introducing Sgt. Peter Maza), a mother (introducing Diane Maza), a brother (introducing Derek Maza) and a sister who's away at college (we even get a photo peak at Beth Maza). This wasn't some cypher who existed only to facilitate things for the Gargoyles. This was a woman whose life extended beyond their reach. A woman who now lived in TWO worlds. With two sets of hospital visitors.
Elisa's ethnic/racial make-up parallels actress Salli Richardson's, who has both African American and Native American ancestry. This is where serendipidy played a roll. We'd later get stories out of her multi-racial background. And it paralleled the inter-species romance we were preparing to build slowly. Sometimes, everything just goes your way.
Goliath - He says he'll find the man who shot Elisa and "Make him Pay". We didn't have to say "kill" there. Again, because this early in the series, we could all easily believe that Goliath could kill. And in fact, when Broadway tells Goliath that he "can't" kill Dracon, Goliath's response is: "You think not?" All the gargoyles had an edge of danger. We may have lost some of that along the way. It's natural. You get to know characters, you stop feeling tense around them. But here, both Goliath and Broadway go a little berserk. And we don't know how they'll act.
And Goliath already loves Elisa. It's so clear to me. The way he touches her hair. The way he reacts to her being shot. He loves her. He doesn't know it yet. But it is SO there. That moment when Goliath tells Broadway that they should go see Elisa, and Broadway is thrilled because he thinks that means that Elisa survived. And then Goliath stops. Because he realizes he isn't sure if Elisa is still alive. It slays me.
And meanwhile, Goliath is adapting fairly fast to the modern world. He clearly got his head around the idea that Xanatos was put away for possessing "stolen property", so he leaves the busted gun in Dracon's lap to make sure Dracon goes away too. He says as much. Not bad for a medieval gargoyle.
And this whole episode is a character-fest. Besides the above mentioned Family Maza, etc. We bring back Bruno, head of Xanatos' security. This was intentional. Establishing that the commandos from episode 2 were just Xanatos' security team being given an unusual assignment.
There's Dracon (pre-stripe) with Glasses and even Pal Joey. Rocky Caroll really brought Glasses to life. I like him. And Dracon, well, I just love his old-fashioned "noive". Calling Elisa "Honey" and "Sugar". Sending Glasses off to sell guns right in front of her. He's pretty fun in this episode.
Owen is incredibly cool. You can really see the Mr. Smithers influence in this one. Times ten. He fights, he negotiates. He manipulates. He's a phenomenal proxy for Xanatos. A true trickster with a low burning flame.
We also introduced Doctor Sato. I always planned on using him more. We just never found the story. Too bad. I liked him a lot.
And we cameo Matt. Originally, Chavez's driver was going to be Morgan. But we had already started work on "The Edge". We knew Matt was coming. So we decided to preview him here. Just a nice little touch for anyone paying attention.
MISCELLANEOUS STUFF
I'd love to know a little bit more about the movie "Showdown", a black and white western that was premiering in 1994. A score by Ennio Morricone (channeled through Carl Johnson -- a guy who doesn't get enough praise for the stunning work he did on the show). And the movie seemed to be a hit. Go figure.
And what about that movie theater. The balcony is closed. But they're storing bags of pre-popped popcorn. How old was that stuff?
Finally, Owen is very specific about the 37 missing weapons. Early on, I tried to keep count. To allow Broadway to eventually account for every one of those guns. But that was one detail that got away from me.
Chapter VII: "Temptation"
[More rambles on individual episodes. As usual, I encourage you to post your responses here.]
Part two of our trio tryptich. Brooklyn looks pretty cool in this one. I have to admit, I didn't realize what a break-out star Brooklyn was back then. I mean I liked him, but I didn't yet realize how much he would really capture a huge chunk of fandom's imagination. (Of course, back then the show hadn't aired yet, so there wasn't any fandom.) But seeing this episode in hindsight, you can sure see how cool this guy was. Good-looking with the hair and the muscles and everything. Even the snout adds to the look.
And he's so sympathetic too. Yes, he gets "turned" by Demona. But he immediately realizes that what she's doing is wrong. He admits his mistake and tries to correct it. He's such a good guy. Later, of course, I'd recognize the star power and attempt to give him his own series: TIMEDANCER.
Back then, of course, I had really modeled the ensemble nature of the show on HILL STREET BLUES. Goliath was my Frank Furillo. Everyone would get their own stories, but Goliath carried the weight. So, although the tryptich was designed to deepen the characters of the trio, you can see that each episode also prominently features Goliath. THRILL: Lex & Goliath. TEMPTATION: Brooklyn & Goliath. DEADLY FORCE: Broadway & Goliath. (And later, LONG WAY TO MORNING: Hudson & Goliath.) Don't get me wrong, I don't regret this at all. I think those are all great stories, and without Goliath they would not have worked as written. But I think the design of them betrays a bit of insecurity. We weren't sure if the other characters could carry their own episodes alone. The nice thing about the tryptich (and LONG WAY) was that it proved to us what a strong ensemble of characters we had built.
Lex has some real attitude here: "You rode a horse once, does that mean you could build one from scratch."
The motorcycle is interesting. It was one of three toy driven elements we consciously put into the show. (The others were in "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Eye of the Storm".) It was a rare moment of Kenner and Disney being in semi-synch. And the toy actually looks like the motorcycle. But of course, what the hell were we going to do with a motorcycle? How could we make that an on-going element in the show. Sure Batman has a batmobile, but the garg-cycle just sounds silly. So we put it in, but Michael, Brynne, Frank and I are so subversive that we blow the thing up before the end of Act One. Kenner never said anything. I'm not sure if they ever saw the episode. (But we weren't being very good partners.) But what goes around comes around. I'll tell the flip side of this when I ramble on Keeper and Storm.
S&P required that Brooklyn wear a helmet when riding. That was fine with me, but I wanted to make an effort to make it organic. Brooklyn puts it on because it's "All part of the look." Helmets make it cooler. Thus helmets are cool. Thus kids will wear their helmets. Aren't we sneaky?
Also, Brooklyn loses yet another pair of sunglasses.
Morgan's back. But he litters. That always bugged me. Talk about setting a bad example.
And is that Margot Yale's actress sister on the television sitcom saying, "Who do you think you are... Elvis?" [Add laugh track here.]
CONTINUITY
"Kindred Spirits" - Brooklyn quotes Lex from Thrill and attempts to make the same kind of connection with the bikers that Lex attempted with the Pack. With similar results. Later, Demona refers to Lex's little adventure with the Pack. This was the moment when Michael Reaves and I decided to attempt to treat the series as episodic but sequential. The order of the episodes would matter. Yes, you should be able to enjoy any individual story... but viewing is enhanced when you see the shows in order. This was not an obvious decision. Most shows REQUIRE that episodes are airable in ANY ORDER. We had that requirement too, up to a point. But we wanted to add something more. To play with continuity. With evolving lives. This wasn't an issue in the pilot five parter. Of course, that had to air in order. And then there was Thrill. Just the first one we made after Awakening. That aired next. But we didn't think about it. But here, we had to decide. So we opted for an episodic but sequential series. (My favorite kind.) We referred to previous conversations. (Elisa's still pestering Goliath about the Xanatos-ticking clock.) And we laid pipe for future episodes, by having Demona rip a few spells out of the Grimorum. (At the time, I didn't even know what those spells were for. But I knew she had them. I knew we'd use them.) We had Demona admit she had lied about how she had survived to the present. Etc. Anyway, all this continuity would later bite us on the ass a bit. (I'll talk more about this when we get to "ENTER MACBETH", which forced us to slightly change our M.O. for season two.) But again, I have no regrets; I think it's one of the things that makes the show special.
Meanwhile, how did Demona know about the Pack & Lex? Although the pact with Xanatos clearly hasn't been broken yet (not till CITY OF STONE, obviously), she also doesn't exactly have free run of the castle. She has Brooklyn steal the book. Of course, she wants Brooklyn complicit. And it's hard to sneak around the castle, when the Gargoyles (at least think that they) are the proprieters. I just always wondered whether Demona might not have been following Lex & Goliath around throughout that entire Pack battle. Or whether, Xanatos just phoned her and told her. Obviously, the former is much more interesting.
ANIMATION
Another great looking episode that we didn't fully appreciate at the time. Lots of great little touches. I love when Demona casts her spell, and then closes the Grimorum with one last flash of magic. So cool. And, as I said, Brooklyn really looks great throughout.
But there are a couple things...
The bikers approach Brooklyn. They get very close, and he's not in shadow. But they don't notice he's a "monster" until he takes off his helmet. What?! The snout didn't give it away?! That scene continues to drive me nuts. I just hate how it was staged.
And when Elisa's lecturing Goliath she is wagging her index finger in his face. That's annoying enough. But worse, the finger seems to get longer (like Pinocchio's nose) the more she wags (or nags). It's sorta mesmerizing. In that scene, I can't see anything else.
CHARACTER
I love how Marina Sirtis' voice bristles when Brooklyn mentions Elisa to Demona. Demona/Marina forces herself to say that the Detective may be "The exception [to human evil] that proves the rule." It seems sincere, but I really hear the hatred underneath.
Elisa tries to talk Goliath into leaving again. This time, she's got an idea where he can go. (So although that seems to be a repeat of their conversation from THRILL, we actually advanced that plot too. Weren't we smart?)
[And yes, I realize that all these rambles sound incredibly arrogant and immodest. I'm sitting here praising me and my team's own work. But what can I tell you? I do really like it. And I figure you guys might still be interested in my -- totally biased -- observations.]
Anyway, I love how what Elisa's saying to a very close-minded Goliath plays right into what Brooklyn heard from Demona. Brooklyn tries to argue Elisa's point. Putting Elisa and Demona, ironically, on the same side. Kudos to Brynne and Michael. It's a great little scene. Of course it ends with Brooklyn and Goliath turning to stone mid-argument. Just like Lex & Goliath did in the previous episode. Frank came to me and warned me not to do that again. Twice in two episodes was enough. At least for a while.
I also love Goliath's lines about "half-truths that [Demona] has thoroughly embraced."
LITTLE TOUCHES
Goliath just loves saying "Joy-Ride". It seems so pleasant.
Lex's double take reactions to finding out the motorcycle was blown up.
Elisa's "Thanks, I think." reaction to Brooklyn saying that he knew that she at least was a worthwhile member of the human race. Brooklyn still isn't quite free of prejudice. A work in progress.
The DEAD BODY. I held my breath on that one. We've got a chalk outline. And a corpse in a body bag. I was sure S&P would balk. But Adrienne was great. She saw that it was important to the story. And since we didn't dwell on it or explain it, she figured little kids wouldn't get it and/or be traumatized. As you can see we had a great working relationship with S&P. I mean, a DEAD BODY! It still shocks me.
Did Demona pay that family to perform their little scene for Brooklyn? I didn't think so at the time. But now I'm suspicious.
Brooklyn has a perfectly innocent line about the Cloisters being a place like the "world we came from" or something like that. Meaning of course, the medieval time that they came from. Once this aired, I immediately start seeing e-mails claiming this as evidence that Gargoyles are from another planet. This misapprehension may be one of the reasons I so quickly got involved with fandom.
Did we cheat? Elisa solves Goliath's slave-spell problem by using the spell to unhex him. I love that little bit. But Michael Reaves and I had a long back & forth discussion where we debated whether we were cheating the audience. (I seem to recall that at different times he and I both came down on both sides of the argument.) We finally decided to go for it. And again, no regrets. I do think it worked. And we sort of both promised each other that we wouldn't pull that kind of thing again. (Airwalker, I think there's a mention of this in the City of Stone memo I sent you.)
Elisa writes...
i've wondered this for a long time, but, why is Elisa Maza's hair color so wild? i mean it's blue; she's the only one with an odd hair color. why is that?
Greg responds...
In cartoons and comics, giving a character a blue/black sheen is a visual conceit that implies very dark black hair. If we actually used solid black, you'd get no light or shadow. No sense of density. Just the absense of color. The blue allows more play. I'm so immersed in the conceit, I don't even see it. At any rate, I'm quite sure that she's not the only character we did that with. (Superman, for years before John Byrne, had the same blue-black hair.)
Chris writes...
If Goliath and Elisa were to become mates, what do you think the other gargoyles'(especially Demona's)reaction would be?
Greg responds...
I think everyone in the immediate clan would react very positively at this point.
As for Demona... well how do ya think she'd react? (Trust me, she's not sending china.)
Ed writes...
1. Do you believe intelligent life exists outside of Earth?
2. Did Goliath and Elisa believe it before they met Nokkar?
Greg responds...
1. How could it not?
2. Elisa would probably have responded as I did, which doesn't mean she believed in U.F.O.'s. Honestly, I'm not sure if Goliath ever gave it any thought.
Angela writes...
Hello, Greg! Quick question for you -- is part of Demona's hatred towards Elisa because she is jealous of her being with Goliath? I have a good example to support this -- in "The Mirror", Demona wanted Puck to get rid of Elisa. Puck showed Demona an image of Goliath in the mirror and said, "How quaint, after all these centuries you're still carrying a torch. Well, if that's what you want I can make him love you again. Piece of cake, given your charming personality." (Demona does still love Goliath!!) Demona never denied that she still had feelings for Goliath. Then, Elisa came into the picture. Demona immediately then said, "rid me of that human, Elisa Maza!" It's because she was jealous because Elisa took Demona's Goliath, right? Please let me know! Thanks! :)
Greg responds...
Yes. Clearly. Although it's not that simple.
Elisa also proves or rather disproves Demona's theory that all humans are evil destroyers of the Gargoyle race. Demona's semi-fragile -- or at least ultra-calcified -- psyche can abide that thought.
lou serbio writes...
Hey.
Goliath/Elisa relationship stuff, forgive the layman's approach:
1) Was their "Hunter's Moon" kiss solely the idea of the episode's writer, or was it a collective agreement among you and others?
2) Upon seeing the final cut, did you consider the kiss romantic just some silly impulse of Elisa's?
3) OR... was it the culmination of their romantic tensions that peppered the entire series?
Greg responds...
1. Me and others. With artists in North Hollywood and Japan pushing it even further than I had anticipated. Not that I minded.
2. I thought it was romantic. And though literally impulsive, I don't consider it silly.
3. Yes, that too.
AWAKENING: PART FIVE
More tidbits and observations...
The first appearance of the Steel Clan. It's a silly little thing, but at the time I was ridiculously pleased by the name "The Steel Clan". It just seemed so right. Cool sounding, tough. And yet original and appropriate to the series. It was one of those early moments that made me feel like I was really tapping into the Gargoyles Universe.
Also the first appearance of the Eyrie Building Lobby Security Guard. The one that Oberon will later do his Obi-wan number on. I never forget a minor character.
One reason some of the editing is different between the video version and the tv episodic version has to do with when the two separate products were due. (I'm not referring to the TV movie version that's been appearing recently. I have no idea who edited that one. Or when. Or why.) As I've mentioned before, the video version was not originally created for video. It was created for our world premiere on two big screens at the movie theater multiplex on Pleasure Island at Walt Disneyworld. That premiere was in September of 1994. But the series premiere was almost a full month later. While I was supervising the editing of the movie version, Frank was (relatively speaking) taking his time on the five episodes. In my editing bay, we didn't have the luxury of waiting for all the retakes to come back before we had to complete OUR edit and lock picture for sound design. In fact, sometimes we were editing to pencil test animation. That's animated pencils without background paintings or ink or paint. It can sometimes be very hard to read at all. But we had to make decisions based not soley on "ART" but also on what we likely thought we'd get back in time to get the two prints made for the Florida premiere. Sometimes we cut little pieces that wound up turning out fine and making it into the episode.
Generally, I think the animation in this episode is just stunning. A few examples.
--Hudson lifting Bronx off that train.
--The whole scene with Xanatos, Demona and Owen standing beside the Steel Clan robots while they are covered with sheets. Some incredible shadow work. And the character stuff is so sweet.
--Some gorgeous battle stuff with those robots.
--The castle tower blowing up, crashing and falling apart.
This and more can still take my breath away.
I love all the Demona-Goliath-Elisa triangle stuff. It's all spelled out in the confrontation when Goliath wants to go keep his appointment with Elisa, and Demona's trying to stop him. If Demona hadn't been so bloodthirsty aboard FORTRESS-1, would Goliath have even remembered his appointment with Elisa? Or would he be off cuddling with his long-lost love?
Anyway, that whole conversation is just full of delicious irony -- all working against Demona. Goliath says, "I cannot make war on an entire world," completely unaware that that's exactly what Demona wants to do. He says, "Doesn't Xanatos prove that some humans can be trusted?" But of course, Demona knows that Xanatos absolutely cannot be trusted. Every statement Goliath makes pushes Demona toward further extremism. And he isn't even trying. Finally, after Demona reminds him of the Wyvern betrayal and Massacre, he says that the ones responsible for that "have been dead for 1000 years." Now putting aside that the Captain and Hakon aren't quite as dead-dead as Goliath thinks, this has got to push Demona over the edge. Deep down she knows her own responsibility. Again Goliath is wrong, because the traitor is standing right in front of him. My hats off to Michael Reaves. What a great scene! "So be it." she says. Goliath won't know it until VOWS. But they are DONE. Right there.
Cultural Differences 101: Elisa is trying to convince Goliath not to trust Xanatos. I don't remember the exact line, but she says something with the word "three" in it. (Maybe refering to the three disks or the three Cyberbiotics installations...?) Anyway, to indicate three she holds up her index finger, her middle finger and ... her thumb. It still looks totally goofy to me. I don't know anyone who wouldn't use their ring finger with the other two, using the thumb to hold the pinky down. Does anyone know if in Japan the thumb is preferred?
When Demona's destroying FORTRESS-1, Goliath is standing around stunned. She tries to get him to leave, but he refuses. Finally, she pulls him out. What was supposed to happen was that the tilting ship was supposed to dump him out the hatch at the same time Demona was pulling. So that he was more unwilling to abandon the crew of the ship. But it never animated with the tilt going the right way.
In our original development we planned on making a lot bigger deal of all the various Xanatos Enterprises sub-divisions. You got a taste of that with PackMedia Studios and Gen-U-Tech (a.k.a. Gen-U-Tech Systems or G.U.T.S.). But we were also going to make a bigger deal of his robotics division, which was going to be called the Scarab Corporation. (Thus the scarab design that appears on the transmitter.) But Xanatos wound up being even more hands-on then I anticipated. Less Lex Luthor. More his own glorious self. So Scarab never got much of a spotlight because Xanatos handled those kinds of adventures himself and/or the robots handled things themselves (cf. Coyote in Leader of the Pack). For those of you who have been to one of the Gatherings and seen the original Gargoyles Pitch, you might recall a giant chrome cockroach climbing up the side of a building to attack Goliath. That was going to be a Scarab Corp. creation.
Isn't Xanatos just too cool:
"Let's let them play out there little drama, shall we?" He's so amused. He can't resist watching the confrontation. And for once I don't feel like it's cause he's a villain stupidly giving the hero time to turn the tables. He's sincerely entertained by the show.
"Without me you'd still be gathering moss." Nuff said.
There's another great little dialogue editing moment. Real subtle. When Demona says: "The plan was perfect." Goliath whispers "Plan?" She says something else and then he completes his thought "What Plan?" That little overlap wasn't scripted. It was another product of me having the luxury to really nurse those dialogue edits on those early scripts.
There is good and evil in all of us. Human and Gargoyle alike. Hey, Lexy, there's another major theme of the series. No one group has a monopoly on either attribute.
One thing that never quite worked for me, was the reveal of Demona's name. She makes such a big deal of it. But the name (at this point in the series) just doesn't have enough resonance for me yet. Later, sure. "Demona". We all sit up and take notice. But there. "Demona". Yeah, so? Did that moment play for you guys?
Goliath is about to toss Xanatos off the building. Elisa begs him not to. That'll make you just like Demona she says. Then Hudson pipes in and says, "She's right, lad. Is that what you want?" I intentionally instructed our voice director Jamie Thomason to direct Ed Asner to read that line with ambiguity. Hudson DOESN'T care whether Goliath tosses David or not. He simply wants Goliath to make an informed choice.
And yeah, yeah, David & Goliath. Perfect opposites.
Elisa: "Maybe, we'll catch a Giants' game."
Goliath: "Giants?"
Were any of you surprised when a Giant Oberon attacked the castle?
As usual, I encourage responses posted here, on either your original feelings when seeing the episode for the first time and/or newer more recent observations from repeat or recent viewings.
AWAKENING: PART FOUR
More random observations...
Jogger's first appearance.
Cyberbiotics first true appearance.
Bruno (aka the Commando Leader) gets a bit of character development. I remember when voice director Jamie Thomason asked Jeff Bennett to do that voice. Jeff asked what Jamie wanted and Jamie said something like: "Do a George C. Scott/Patton thing." I don't know if that's what I'm hearing, but I like the end result.
We see Vinnie for the second time. Of course, we still didn't know that was Vinnie yet. His nose is HUGE. He must have had a little work done between this show and Metamorphosis. (Not the smartest way to spend money when you're out of work.) One of my favorite bits in "Vendettas" is the reveal of how exactly Vinnie was knocked out by Goliath aboard the airship. In Awakening IV, Goliath lifts Vinnie out of the shot. We hear a loud <SMACK> and Vinnie falls unconscious. The implication being that G knocked him out. But in Vendettas, Cary and I showed what was previously off-screen. You see that the <SMACK> came from G hitting his fist against the wall. Vinnie wasn't knocked out. He fainted.
Elisa looks damn good with her jacket off. I wish we had had more opportunities for costume changes with her. They always work so well.
I always thought that the tranq the Commandos used on Goliath in parts III and IV was pretty unreliable. It seems to knock him down. Then he's up again. Then he's staggering. All very story convenient. You could look at it as a flaw in the episodes. Or you could justify it by saying that they had never had the opportunity to test the stuff on Gargoyles before. It had strange effects.
Owen has one line in the whole episode: A very effective clearing of his throat. You gotta love a character who can be so memorable with so little.
The Commandos seem to be pretty bad shots, until you realize in episode V that killing Goliath isn't really what they're after. In my head, they were told NOT to kill him if they could effectively put a scare into him. Elisa was probably much more expendable. Bruno's discretion.
This seemed like the first episode to use the "CLAW WIPES"... but I'm not sure. A Wipe is one means of moving from one scene to another. Other methods are straight CUTS or DISSOLVES, etc. But Japan started doing these very dramatic CLAW WIPES, where a Gargoyle hand seems to be tearing the old scene away with his or her claws. It wasn't called for in early scripts, but after we had seen it a few times, we started to call it out.
Elisa puts the transmitter on a dog she calls Rover, a dog that's scrounging through garbage in the park. In the very next scene, Hudson is watching TV and a dog that could easily have been Rover as a pup is seen starring in a dogfood commercial. How the mighty have fallen.
There's a few great moments with the trio in this show. Maybe not the obvious ones. I love their exchange of dialogue to Hudson when they come back from their night on the town. We had the opportunity to really edit the dialogue with multiple overlaps and rhythms before it went to Japan. The scene really snaps. In later episodes, we wouldn't always have that luxury.
The scenelet where they fly away from the castle on their way to the Cyberbiotics Tower is also very cool. A combination of animation, editing and sound, that really gives SNAP to their departure. I love it.
Of course, the naming scene is great. Names are so addictive.
And I still like the character development in our love triangle here. Goliath doesn't trust Elisa even yet. Hasn't told her about his daytime vulnerability. And he might not have, if he hadn't been caught outside. But her loyalty and steadfastness really impresses him. I feel the connection very strongly. And I think she does too, when she asks if she can see him again later tonight. It's not just curiosity about a new life-form.
And Demona. I love that wing hug when she and Goliath are reunited. But you have to wonder about that reunion from her point of view. Yes, she's scheming here. But she must be thrilled to see him and the other gargs awake and alive. THRILLED. All those years of lonliness and now her true love is awake. But she never hesitates to prioritize her scheming. All those years of bitterness have stunted her emotions even more.
Finally, lots of people keep telling me that Elisa says "Damn" in the boathouse in at least one version of this thing. But it's not true. We never even recorded her saying Damn. Why would I? No way it would get by S&P, so why bother. Didn't even occur to me. She does grunt right before she says "Empty". And I suppose that grunt might sound a bit like the word "Damn." I mean, I don't think so, but it's the only explanation for this myth that I can come up with.
sdoh writes...
hello,
i`am a big fan of gargoyles and star trek. so my question is how many star trek actors played on gargoyles? can you tell me the actors names and the roles they played please? ty for you time
Greg responds...
I know this is in the archives... <sigh>
I won't pretend this is a complete list, but off the top of my head...
Classic Star Trek
Nichelle Nichols - Diane Maza
Next Generation
Jonathan Frakes - David Xanatos, Coyote (robot)
Marina Sirtis - Demona/Dominque Destine, Margot Yale
Brent Spiner - Puck
Michael Dorn - Coldstone, Taurus
LeVar Burton - Anansi
Deep Space Nine
Avery Brooks - Nokkar
Colm Meeney - Rory's father
Voyager
Kate Mulgrew - Anastasia/Titania
Plus there are all sorts of actors who had guest rolls on the various Trek series, for example both Morgan Shepard (Odin, King Kenneth, etc.) and Salli Richardson (Elisa/Delilah) have guested on Trek. I don't know and couldn't possibly list them all.
But this is a start, right?
Tara Ann Kokesch writes...
Greg, I have loved the show gargoyles for about 4 years now. I am a big DeMona fan, I think she is beautiful, and perfect in almost everyway. My question is, have you ever thought abotu DeMona and Goliath getting back together? Elisa Maza and Goliath is just not good... but DeMona and Goliath are made for each other, I remember city of stone perfectly, and It was clear then that they were perfect for each other, so why should it not continue now? Did you ever consider it? If so, how would you go about getting goliath and her back together? thanks... A HUGE FAN!!!
Greg responds...
Demona? Perfect? Maybe she's a perfect fictional character. (I'd like to think so anyway.) But I'd hardly say she's perfect.
And it's Demona. Not DeMona, by the way.
As to her and Goliath getting back together. No. I put that to bed with Vows. Elisa is the true love of Goliath's life. Demona has a couple of true loves coming. But Goliath and her... when it was real, it wasn't that real. It was love, but it was also youth. And no small amount of her hiding her true nature from him. You can't base a GREAT LOVE on deception. Not that the emotions weren't sincere, but Demona and Goliath never truly understood each other. Not the way Goliath and Elisa do. And not the way Demona and xxx will.
AWAKENING, PART THREE
Watched this with the family half an hour ago...
More random observations...
RE: Our supporting cast...
Who knew that Brendan & Margot would wind up being so important? Credit Marina Sirtis, for making Margot so gloriously bitchy.
And then there's Vinnie's first appearance on that motorcycle. Of course, no one knew Vinnie existed back then, which is thoroughly appropriate to his character.
And credit Keith David with breathing real life into Morgan the cop. Morgan didn't even have a name then. He was just a place holder, someone for Elisa to respond to. But Keith made me interested in him.
Little things still bug me. Xanatos' floating ponytail in the scene where he and Elisa first meet.
In the Kitchen, the Freezer door was supposed to have one of those easy to open latches on the inside. The irony being that Broadway could easily extricate himself, if he just knew how to operate the latch (or even what it was). Something a kid could do, assuming the kid was born in the 20th century. But BW has to bust down the door.
In the original script and the recording of that script, it's Brooklyn who says "So many wonders..." and it's Broadway who says "Goliath said not to let anybody see us." But in those early days, lots of people in L.A. and in Tokyo kept confusing their names (and Bronx's) so the animation came back as you see it. And it was easier to re-record the voices then to reanimate. (Or am I getting all this totally backwards? I just saw the show again half an hour ago, and already, I'm confused.)
(CAVEAT: In all these little things, I'll probably be pointing out animation errors here and there. But please understand, I think most of the animation we got, particularly from Walt Disney TV Animation - Japan, was brilliant. I think those guys did a great job and don't get enough credit. But anecdotes generally come out of when things go wrong, not when they go right, so it may seem like I'm talking about mistakes more often than not. Sorry, in advance to Roy Sato or anyone else who might take offense.)
When Elisa is first being checked out by the Trio, there was a scene in the original animation where Brooklyn seems inordinantly interested in her behind. We had to call a retake, cuz the guy was practically drooling. I wonder if that's where I got the idea that Brooklyn would fall for anyone in a skirt (or with a tail).
Also, after Goliath saves Elisa from falling off the building we have a point of view shot from her. It begins at Goliath's feet and pans up to his face, as she takes him in. In the original animation, the pan started at his head and panned down. That seemed less effective, so we had our editors reverse the pan, without calling for a retake.
At the end of Act Two, the door slides open revealing Demona in silhouette, clearly plotting something with Xanatos. That always really bugged me. I didn't want to give away that she was alive in this episode. I didn't want to know who Xanatos was talking to. How did you guys react to this? Did that spill everything? Did any of you not know that Demona was alive? Did any of you, by this point, not know that she and Xanatos were the bad guys?
Elisa says something like "This is where Dracula shows up." when she's walking through the corridors of the castle. If you take that literally (and you might as well), then you gotta figure that someday, Dracula will be roaming that very hallway.
Elisa loses the first in her series of guns, when Goliath crushes it near the end of Act One.
Goliath tells a joke: "And please, don't fall off the building this time." Goliath tells a joke. Can you believe it? It wasn't bad either. We should have let him tell jokes more often.
Elisa's surprise that Goliath can talk is indicative of what I thought a 20th (or 21st) century initial response to the gargs would be. That's why Goliath Chronicles' trial episode bugged me so much. I don't think humans would take for granted sentience. And I think most humans, those less open than Elisa, wouldn't even buy talking as enough evidence that the gargs weren't just beasts. (Cf. Margot Yale.)
Goliath is a pretty begruding hero. That's somewhat unique for cartoons. Elisa asks if there are more gargs, and Goliath responds: "Barely." He cuts her very little slack. But already you can see their relationship developing. I still think Hudson's expression after Goliath sweeps Elisa up into his arms is just priceless.
In that same scene, Hudson gets named for the river. I love that scene, as I loved the scene where Tom, Brook and Lex are talking about names. Of course, the desire not to name most of the gargoyles until we got to NYC '94, was mostly pragmatic. It allowed us to use those fun, cool NY names for most of the characters. But once we came up with the rationale for it, and once I managed to explain it to everyone, I really fell in love with the concept. Hudson's lament, here, that humans don't think something is real until they've put there stamp on it, is, to me at least, so damn true. And Elisa's response is so feeble and circular. "Things need names." Pathetic. But I'm no different. <SIGH> I'm such a human. But I aspire to gargoylosity. Anyway, after Hudson points to the river, and Elisa basically tricks him into taking that name, she used to have a line, as I may have mentioned before, where she said (under her breath) "Good thing we weren't facing Queens" -- implication being that Hudson nearly ended up being called Queen, I guess. It was always funny, but S&P didn't care for it, and I couldn't really defend it. So out it went. We tried another version, where she just says, "Good thing we weren't facing East." But it didn't play. So out it went too.
The thing that struck me most, however, was the almost thorough lack of action in this episode. After all that Viking stuff in Part One, and Vikings and a full act of commandos in Part Two, Part Three is a mood and character piece. Sure Elisa falls off a building, but that was a problem easily solved. Until the commandos' Central Park attack in the last seconds of Act Three, nothing else happens that could genuinely qualify as action. That was mostly a result of what was once a four-parter being turned into a five-parter. The reason we made that change is because Michael Reaves wrote a brillaint four-part script. It was amazing. But it was WAY too long. I was faced with either having to make drastic cuts (as I would later have to do in Avalon and Hunter's Moon) or expand it. Fortunately, Gary Krisel and Bruce Cranston saw the wisdom of expansion. For one thing, it would save us money. But also, it made sense because we could run the five parts across a whole week of the Disney Afternoon like a mini-series special event. It wouldn't require us to re-program one day of that first week. So we were all agreed, the four parter would become a five parter.
But that meant adding act breaks, and redividing everything. The episode that most benefited was Part One. In the orignal version, Part One covered all of what is currently part one, plus the first act of what's currently part two, i.e. ALL the Scotland stuff. The episode ended with Goliath's "suicide". A great ending, but we would have obviously had to cut a TON out of the flashback. This way we were able to expand into part two and preserve almost all of the story.
So Part Three winds up being nearly action-free. And by the way, I love that. I still think the episode works great, and it proved to me that the charcters themselves could really hold the audience's attention. (I'm such a proud papa. Unashamedly so. It must be pretty obnoxious.) I wish we had always had the luxury to be so... well, luxurious. To expand and play character. But generally a half-hour format makes it tough. I'm very sick of writing half hours, actually. But the powers that be in Animation believe that kids can't or won't sit through an hour long show.
As usual, I welcome posts here responding to this episode. Both your original reaction to seeing it for the first time, and your current reaction if you've seen it again recently.
NZ Fan of Gargoyles writes...
Hi Mr Weisman.
First off, thanks for such a great show. I'm writing fan fiction at the moment, and am writing an Elisa and Goliath one. If I recall correctly you had something about them having children, or having to adopt one. I have a question about it, I hope you can answer for me.
1. If it were possible for them to have a child, either naturally, by magic or science. How long would Elisa be pregnant?
2. Anything else about the whole pregnancy thing you'd care to add.
Thanx for your time.
Greg responds...
1. This is hypothetical on top of hypothetical, but I'd tend to think that Elisa would be pregnant nine months unless there was some scientific or magical explanation why not.
2. No.
Joe writes...
what happened in the end with Goliath and Elisa? I missed most of the Goliath C. episodes. Thanks!
Greg responds...
There is no end.
And I had nothing to do with any of the Goliath Chronicle episodes after "The Journey". So I don't attempt to answer questions about those episodes.
Tiffiny Whitney writes...
Okay...I have two questions, but being as they are not on the same topic...you'll get the other question separately. First...it's about the Goliath/Elisa relationship. Throughout the entire series (which I was completely obsessed with before it was cancelled), you could pretty much tell they had something going on (especially when Elisa became a gargoyle). Had the series not been cancelled, would they have acknowledged their feelings for each other and maybe have done something about it? I don't think that violates any of your rules, especially since it wouldn't have any point to suggest an idea because the show is cancelled, but if it does, don't think it does because it isn't. I hope you can answer it! Thanks! :)
Greg responds...
You're last sentence gave me a headache.
And I do want to note that the fact that the series curently isn't in production, doesn't preclude my need for protection from "original ideas" about the show. Because someday, in some form or another, I hope to bring the thing back.
Anyway, on to your question. I feel that Elisa's kiss in HUNTER'S MOON, PART THREE was an acknowledgement of her feelings for Goliath. And I feel Goliath has, on a few occasions, attempted to acknowledge his feelings for her, but that she always stopped him. So I don't think this is a secret anymore.
As for future stories, yes, of course the relationship would have progressed at the same SLOW steady pace.
Andrea "Elisa Maza" Ivanovs writes...
Hi Greg,
Here's another one. Please don't laugh, but this has been bothering me! Is Elisa's jacket supposed to be made of leather or another fabric?? Maybe you never cared - but could you make a pick then? ;)
Thanks!!
Greg responds...
I don't know. In the original development, it was clearly supposed to be a leather jacket. But the style and color changed, and frankly it doesn't look leather to me. I'm not shy about picking, but I don't know that much about fabric. What do you all think?
Dan writes...
I think I asked this earlier, so if you don't want to answer this, it's okay by me, but I'm still curious as to why David Xanatos did not decide to turn Elisa into a mutant panther instead of her brother in the "Metamorphosis" episode. Elisa as a mutant instead of her brother seems a better bargain to me, as Elisa as a human posed a ongoing danger to Xantos, and had more to offer in the way of skills, (Not to mention a certain revenge factor in turning Elisa into a mutant kitty on Xantos part). Even if the transformation was only on a short term basis, having a crack detective who was already your enemy transformed instead into a mutant powerless,ex-cop living in the sewers, who was dependent on your good will and had to follow your "requests" if she ever wanted a cure,would have been a great way for Xanatos to split Elisa from the gargoyles, get her off the force, if not actually working for him, and out of his hair at least for awhile.
Greg responds...
I feel like I've answered this already, but...
What good is Elisa as a mutate?
She'd only have become a more dangerous enemy. Maybe her effectiveness as a cop would be neutralized, but Xanatos had already managed that fairly effectiely, and his plan to turn her brother into a mutate further hampered her there. But meanwhile he would have a dangerous mutate, who knew he was a villain, knew he couldn't be trusted. It would hardly get her out of his hair, as you put it. She'd have nothing to lose, wouldn't trust him for a second to find a cure.
Derek, on the other hand, could be manipulated. In the long run, using him didn't accomplish all that Xanatos hoped, but for awhile it looked like he had what he set out to create, his own personal set of gargoyles. That could never have happenned with Elisa. Not even briefly. And I don't see how this would have split her off from the Gargoyles. She wouldn't have gone to live in a sewer. She'd have moved in with them. Arguably it could have made them even tighter.
As for revenge, we've seen over and over that Xanatos doesn't have a revengeful bone in his body. That kind of petty stuff doesn't interest him.
Todd Jensen writes...
Just out of curiosity - have you ever worked out what religion the major (or minor, for that matter) human characters in "Gargoyles" are, if on a purely "for personal amusement" basis? (I doubt that you were seriously planning to bring it up directly in the series, given how tricky handling religion in television can be). We know from Diane's "We can pray, Peter" line in "Deadly Force" that the Mazas have some sort of religious belief, and obviously Max Loew, his Rabbi ancestor, and Janus in "Golem" are/were Jewish, but that's as far as I can guess.
Greg responds...
Matt Bluestone is Jewish.
Maria Chavez is Catholic.
Halcyon Renard is a Calvinist.
Petros Xanatos is Greek Orthodox.
I think that Diane Maza is a member of some Protestant Christian sect, but I'd have to do some research to figure out which one.
Peter Maza spent most of his adult life as a dedicated Agnostic. But since "Cloud Fathers" it would be interesting to see how that's changed.
I think Elisa probably has a background in Christianity from her mother, but probably styled her beliefs after her father. Still, I'm quite certain that all the stories her mother told about African myths and legends helped her maintain an open mind.
I think Derek Maza has a more Christian bent. Maggie Reed too.
Beth Maza's more likely to at least attempt to connect back with Carlos Maza's Native American beliefs.
David Xanatos believes... in himself.
Fox believes in David.
Have I left anyone out?
Gary S. writes...
Dear Mr. Wiseman:
What became of the new hunters right after the end of Gargoyles' 2nd Season? I mean did Jason and her sister went to jail for destroying the police station? Was their other brother responsible for creation the Quarrymen? Did the Quarrymen forced Jason to use his technology on the Gargoyles? Did Jason became a civil rights activist or what?
I hope I'm not asking to much. I'm just curious.
Greg responds...
Jason went to a halfway house where he could rehab and serve out his sentence under some semblance of restriction.
Robyn was coerced into leading the Redemption Squad (aka Bad Guys).
Jon changed his name to John Castaway and became the founder of the Quarrymen.
Jason would be the subject of Jon, Robyn and Elisa's on-going interest -- as he personally struggled to redirect his life.
Airwalker writes...
Does Elisa speak more than one language and if she does then what language would it be?
Greg responds...
I would guess that Elisa speaks Spanish and English. (Actually, I'm sure about that second one.)
Durax writes...
You've mentioned in the past that Elisa and some others might wear Odin's Eye. Odin has his eye back however. How does he lose it again?
Greg responds...
When did I mention that?
Demona Taina writes...
Just a couple of quick questions. :)
1. Where did Demona get those gargoyles from in "City Of Stone"?
2. What do Gargoyles smell like? Because in "The Dying Of The Light", Hudson's blind friend, Jeffrey Robbins, said that Hudson smelled like "old leather and concrete". Anyway, is that true? Or did TGC make it up? And if so, is it a bad smell or a good one?
I guess those are all. Thanks for reading!
Greg responds...
1. Wall-mart.
2. I won't comment one way or the other on TGC episodes beyond "The Journey". But certainly, Hudson's old leather clothes would smell like old leather. And a wiff of something stonelike makes sense. Obviously, Elisa doesn't think that Gargoyles smell bad.
OnyxStar writes...
Okay, this is turning into lots of little posts instead of one big one. But anyway, here are the next few:
1. Would Goliath and Elisa's "relationship" ever have become public knowledge? I mean, would someone have figured it out sooner or later and gone to the media with it?
2. If so, how will history remember Elisa Maza, "gargoyle-lover"?
3. Will others have followed in her example by, say, 2158? (not necessarily with a main character or anything, just in general)
4. What does 'protected minority' mean?
Thanks again!
Greg responds...
1. Maybe. Probably. But WAY down the line if at all.
2. Looking back from when?
3. Here and there, but not too often. We want to keep some things unique.
4. It will be a legal term both well-meaning and condescending, both necessary and a stumbling block. Otherwise, I'd say it's fairly self-explanatory.
Douglas "macbeth" Lane writes...
You keep brining up that Elisa will deny her love for the big guy becuase she wants to have a normal life. But will her life ever be normal again? I mean just knowing about the gargoyles could potentially mess up somebodies life (Vinnie). Broadway will probably always try to come over for dinner, and she'll always have them on her mind. In a sence they have ruined her life so why should she deny the feelings that she odviously have and go with what she knows she wants?
Greg responds...
There's normal and there's normal.
There's having wonderful, strange friends and adventures.
And there's losing out on the chance to have a family on the order of the kind of family her parents had. The kind she always dreamed of having.
The two notions aren't mutually exclusive until you throw her love for Goliath into the equation.
Ultimately, she won't be able to deny her feelings for him. But that doesn't mean she hasn't tried.
Todd Jensen writes...
Something that I've wondered about "Metamorphosis" for some time, and finally remembered to ask here. Why did Xanatos choose Derek as one of his victims for the Mutates project? The reason why I'm wondering this is because unlike Maggie (whose folks were presumably all back in Ohio), Derek had family living in New York who would notice his disappearance and investigate - and indeed did. And in particular, Elisa was already definitely not a member of the David Xanatos Fan Club even before the events in "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Metamorphosis", and Xanatos was surely aware of this. It must have been pretty obvious that he'd be in real trouble with her if she ever found out that he'd turned her brother into a winged panther.
Obviously Xanatos must have felt there to be some practical benefit to turning Derek into a Mutate that was enough to outweigh the disadvantage of making even more of an enemy out of Elisa. What I'm curious about is: what was that practical benefit that was strong enough for Xanatos to take the risk?
Greg responds...
First off, Derek had qualities that Maggie, Fang and Claw did not.
Simply put if you are creating your own race of gargoyles, you might consider that you need your own equivalent of Goliath too lead them. Even, literally, to teach them how to fly.
Secondly, I don't think he really feared making an EVEN bigger enemy out of Elisa. That ship had sailed. Rather, I think he felt, particularly if he succeeded -- as he very nearly did -- in keeping Derek/Talon in his employ, that having Derek as a Mutate-bodyguard would be a very effective deterrent against anything Elisa might do. Using Derek was a huge potential bonanza. And the downside (to Xanatos at least) was minimal.
He never really suffered for it.
Great question, by the way.
Dan writes...
Two quick questions:
1) While we saw what happened to Goliath and Fox when they wore the Eye of Odin, I was always curious as to what the Eye would have transformed Elisa and Demona into if they had happened to be the ones who wore the Eye. Have you ever had any thoughts on this?
2) Along these lines while we have all seen Demona's evil side of her nature countless times, Elisa was always the personification of law and justice in every episode. Could Elisa have her own dark side to her personality, as was alluded to in a Gargoyles episode and in a earlier question to Ask Greg? And if so, what form would this take do you think, as a vigilante, or a rogue cop, a human Demona, or even a female version of Tony Draco or Xanatos? What circumstances do you think could ever bring out Elisa's criminal side. For that matter, Elisa and Demona always seemed to have as much in common as not, as they are both strong, intelligent, powerful women. Do you think that they could ever put aside their differences to become allies or even friends?
Thanks!
Greg responds...
1. No. Not really.
2. This is a big question, with a lot of little questions inside it....
Hmmm...
I'm sure Elisa has a dark side. I think we all do.
All your suggestions for her dark side, however, seem to simplistic to me. It would have to come out of circumstances. She'd have to really be pushed over the edge. I'm not going to speculate on those circumstances here. That would be like writing a novel-length piece of fan-fiction that amounted to being the equivalent of a MARVEL WHAT IF? story. A lot of work to no purpose. Yes, Elisa has a dark side. Even a selfish side. We've seen that over and over, I believe. She isn't perfect. But do I think she'd ever permanently go over to the dark side. No. Not while I was in charge of her destiny. (Assuming I ever was.)
As for Elisa & Demona... who knows what might happen down the line. But Demona has a long road to travel before she's ready to fight on the side of the angels again. A very long road. I'm not sure Elisa's got the lifespan to stick it out.
Llewwellyn Gaelfire writes...
Hi Greg,
I'd like to know more about Diane & Peter Maza. How'd they meet? When did they fall in love? Was their relationship met with resistance from their respective families (with the whole interracial aspect & all)?
Greg responds...
These are all good questions, but this isn't the forum for a novel-length response.
So briefly, they met in NYC after Peter had joined the NYPD. Diane was at Columbia. I have some notions for a flashback story that details their first meeting, etc. But I'm not going to go into that now. As to the when, well if you use "Cloud Fathers" as a marker, and count back based on Elisa's age (she being the oldest of the Maza siblings) that should give you a rough idea.
As to resistance, well Peter was already estranged from his family. So resistance from them was a non-issue. As to Diane's family, I'd assume that different individual members reacted in different ways. Like life.
Jeff Lenihan writes...
Mr. Weisman,
Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.
1)How do the Trio and Hudson feel about the relationship between Goliath and Elisa? I'm guessing the Trio probably don't have a problem with it(based on their reactions to seeing the two dancing in "Eye of the Beholder"), but I can't help wondering if Hudson would feel that, as clan leader, Goliath is setting a poor example for the Trio by abandoning gargoyle tradition to take a second mate(and a human at that).
2)In "Grief," Anubis states that that which is dead and gone cannot be brought back. Why, then, was Demona able to bring the spirit of Coldstone (and those of Coldfire and Coldsteel) back from the dead? Was Anubis trying to say that he is under some sort of magical restriction similar to Oberon's law of non-interferece that prevents him from bringing back the dead, or something else entirely?
Greg responds...
1. I think Hudson saw something going on between Goliath and Elisa as far back as the night he took the name Hudson in "Awakening, Part Three". Look at his face, after Goliath picks up Elisa.
I don't know if he had reservations at first. But they can't still exist. Especially after "Vows". (A) Hudson is a realist. (B) I think he's more open-minded then you give him credit for. And (C) I think he loves Elisa like a daughter at this point.
2. Per our rules, I invite and hope you will resubmit your second (quite interesting, but unrelated question) on a separate post.
Matt Dymond writes...
Hi Greg, thanks for such a fantastic series, and thanks in advance for some answers (I hope).
1) In Awakenings pt1, Elisa and Morgan's initial conversation gave the impression that they didn't know each other - She identified herself and gave her precinct number, yet they both work in the 23rd. I know this was likely just scene setting, but it makes it seem like one of them transfered there recently. Was this intended to be the case?
2) Is there any particular backstory as to why Elisa drives her particular make & model of of car (either within the context of the series itself, or a reason one of the writing staff wanted that particular car used?)
3) Since the stone sleep is a biological function, with practice (e.g over several years), would it be possible for a gargoyle to train him/herself to put off the transformation, for a short while at least?
Greg responds...
1. Behind the scenes, we weren't thinking about reusing Morgan at that time. I assumed, that Morgan transferred to the 23rd either right before or right after "Awakening". In any case, Elisa didn't meet him until that moment.
Per our new rules, you'll have to resubmit your other questions on separate posts.
Jackson writes...
Me again! Since I tend to think up questions one at atime, your request is one I can easily handle! Anyway:
1. Does Thailog have a certain attraction to Elisa? His behavior in "Double Jeopardy" and "The Reckoning" Seem to indicate this (the way he speaks and acts toward her in "Double Jeopardy" and the fact that he mixed her DNA with Demona's instead of making a ordinary clone of Demona to create Delilah in "The Reckoning"). If he does, is it because of the fact that he was created with Goliath's DNA? Or does he just naturally find something about her attractive?
Greg responds...
Thailog clearly finds Elisa attractive.
Now as to the cause....
Well you could attribute it to Goliath's DNA. But that sounds extremely unlikely as Goliath wasn't physically attracted to Elisa until he saw her transformed into a Gargoyle in "The Mirror".
So you either have to attribute it to some facet or facets of Xanatos' programming...
Or to the knowledge of Goliath's feelings for Elisa.
Or both.
Or something else.
Lou Serbio writes...
The Goliath and Elisa romance: was marriage ever considered a possibiliy?
Greg responds...
As I've mentioned before -- way down the line there would have been a commitment ceremony of sorts. WAY DOWN THE LINE.
Thilo writes...
First of all thanks to Gorebash for bringing this one online again. And so hello again to you, Greg! Here are some more questions:
1. Xanatos (or Owen) attached a sender to Goliath - as we learn in "Awakening" Part 4. How can it still at Goliaths body, when he looses his stoneskin at sunset?
2. Elisa and weapons - she lost at least 3 pistols: in "Awakening" Part 3 one was destroyed by Goliath, in "Eye of the Beholder" one by Xanatos in his Battle Suit, and in "Ill met by moonlight" one was used for the bell. How does she explain this?
There were some more, but I can't remember right now, so until next time.
Greg responds...
1. Uhhh, super-glue?
2. She probably blames Xanatos.
Zeliard writes...
Hello Mr. Weisman.
My first time ever that I ask a question in Station 8!
1.a)In "Her brother's keeper", did Derek listened to the tape Elisa gave him?
1.b)If Derek did listened to the tape, what did he thought about Xanatos and elisa?
2)What happened to Fortress 2 after the crash? Did Cyberbiotics left it or the air base is still operational?
3)Why Matt Bluestone hasn't revealed his membership to the Illuminaty to Elisa and the Gargoyles?
Thank you for your time, bye!
Greg responds...
1. I think that's an ambiguity better left ambiguous.
2. For you to answer, really...
As per our new rules, I invite you to resubmit your remaining questions as multiple separate posts.
Wondering writes...
1. I was just wondering. If Gargoyles hadn't ended, where would Elisa and Goliath's relationship be at now, presently? Would the commitment ceremony you talked about already taken place?
2. Any new news on the live action movie? Any new dates or things to talk about? Thanks!
Greg responds...
1. That's so hypothetical. But, probably.
As per our new rules, I invite you to resubmit your remaining question as a separate post.